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Friday Morning Release Party

pudge posted more than 11 years ago | from the upgrades-make-me-happy dept.

OS X 104

usermilk writes "Apple has released an update for iMovie 3. It provides improved performance and stability, you can get it from the Software Update preference pane." Hopefully this resolves many of the complaints about what could be a really cool program. maxentius writes "The beta .7 version of Camino has been released. Once Chimera, this tabbed browser and Apple's Safari might start a real browser war. Which one do you prefer?" And on that note, an anonymous user writes "Safari v64 is making the rounds according to macrumors. Safari v62 brought us Tabs, and this new version (v64) appears to provide increased stability, improved tab appearance, loading status for tabs, and enhanced autocomplete."

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104 comments

Imovie performance, camino... (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5458001)

I haven't tried imovie3 yet, suprised though by the high sys req. Anyone with a G3 700 try it, how's it run? I must say I'm a little annoyed that any low end MAC can't run software made 6 months after you buy it. Apple always makes their new builds to the lowest MAC at the time. This is great if you have a high end mac, as the software stays cutting edge, but if you have a low end MAC you are doomed to keep it with the current software only. (I'm not fishing for flames here I have had low end macs for sometime and I love them they're great but it is a bit annoying)

Also I used camino exclusively and have switched to safari after the advent of tabs, anyone with me?

FIRST POST hahaha suckaz

Re:iMovie performance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5458144)

iMovie's latest update runs fine (seems a bit snappier) on my humble graphite iMac 600/256. I've not had any problems previously though, so....

Re:Imovie performance, camino... (4, Informative)

mbbac (568880) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458439)

I've used iMovie's Ken Burns effect on my PowerMac G3 450. It seemed quick enough to me. Note that I haven't used iMovie's DV capability because I don't have a DV camera.

Re:Imovie performance, camino... (2, Offtopic)

clifyt (11768) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458965)

My iBook 600 runs it decently...don't know what anyone else is doing to make it not run.

Heck I even used the KBE on some photos I had as I've picked up a decent digital camera over the holidays and have been dying to use it for sometime a little less productive. Only thin I wish was that you could set up timelines and paths on the KBE (ie., not just from A to B, but taking a portait and scanning from face to face without having to reimport the photo and hope that you can get the effects close enough to do the A to B thing again with the starting point being the ending point of the last...too much trouble).

clif

Re:Imovie performance, camino... (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5460241)

Only thin I wish was that you could set up timelines and paths on the KBE (ie., not just from A to B, but taking a portait and scanning from face to face without having to reimport the photo and hope that you can get the effects close enough to do the A to B thing again with the starting point being the ending point of the last...too much trouble).

There is a way to do this - it's a bit clumsy but does work. The key is to use still frames as shims between KBE shots, and to alternate between doing KBE animations forward and in reverse to avoid having to re-zoom and re-position the photo.

So, if you want to, as you say, scan from face to face, you can create a KBE zooming into the first face, then save that clip. If you preview the clip in the main screen, when it gets to the end of it (the zoomed in face) you can create a still frame of that (if it takes a still frame of the wrong thing at first (for example, the unzoomed photo), keep trying - it can be finnicky). You can then drop that frame into your timeline after the first KBE and it will hold the shot on that face for a few seconds with the exact zoom and positioning settings you initially set. Then go back to your photo, and you will notice that it remembers your KBE settings. What you must do now is leave the end positioning the same, but alter the begin positioning to move on to the next face you want to show and tell the KBE to animate in reverse. This will leave your zoom and positioning settings for the beginning of the next KBE to be exactly where your last frame ended, and you will have a nice pause in between animations. You can repeat this process over and over, and while it may be a bit tedious, it does give you the exactness you desire. You do not have to approximate anything, and it will look clean.

Re:Imovie performance, camino... (1)

dborod (26190) | more than 11 years ago | (#5462213)

I don't know about you, but I find it kinda disturbing that the first post is not completely inane, despite the obligatory 'this is the first post' reference it contained.

Whats with MAC? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5466540)

Why do people use all capitals with MAC? what's it meant to be an abbreviation for?

Re:Whats with MAC? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5478956)

Media Access Control.

Ken Burns Effect and How to Turn it Off (5, Informative)

Spencerian (465343) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458145)

I know we'll have a few people who'll still grouse about the Ken Burns Effect of panning and zooming stills.

Mac OS X Hints has this well documented. You can change two settings in the KBE settings, or you can disable auto-application of KBE to stills with a plist change.

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=200 30 207070603841

or

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=200 30 204065235938&query=ken+burns+effect

What is this, "Ken Burns Effect"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5458295)

OK, slap me for my ignorance; but being as I'm just a lowly programmer and I don't have a digital camera, nor do I have a mighty digital video thing -- I've never used iMovie, nor have I even fired it up.

But, I keep hearing about this reviled "Ken Burns Effect". All I can do is guess it's like Homer star-wiping those handicam shots of Flanders when he was trying to pimp him out to the singles scene.

So, anybody care to educate me on this one? I'm baffled.

And, is it Ken Burns Effect (no apostrophe, as in : Ken is burning) or Ken Burn's Effect (with apostrophe, as in belonging or pertaining to Ken Burns)

Re:What is this, "Ken Burns Effect"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5458328)

It's a pan and zoom function applied to stills.

Re:What is this, "Ken Burns Effect"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5458977)

Ken Burn's Effect (with apostrophe, as in belonging or pertaining to Ken Burns)
"Ken Burn's" would be belonging or pertaining to Ken Burn.

Re:What is this, "Ken Burns Effect"? (1)

Golias (176380) | more than 11 years ago | (#5469389)

But, I keep hearing about this reviled "Ken Burns Effect".

Ken Burns makes a lot of historical documentaries for PBS. Since most of his source material is old photographs, he pans over the pictures while zooming in and out to make the TV a little less lifeless while the narrator is speaking. It actually helps you keep your attention span up fairly well, but gets annoying if it is overdone.

What is this, "Ken Burns Effect"? (1)

TomorrowPlusX (571956) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458313)

[whoops, I posted anonymously, so happy cut-n-paste]

OK, slap me for my ignorance; but being as I'm just a lowly programmer and I don't have a digital camera, nor do I have a mighty digital video thing -- I've never used iMovie, nor have I even fired it up.

But, I keep hearing about this reviled "Ken Burns Effect". All I can do is guess it's like Homer star-wiping those handicam shots of Flanders when he was trying to pimp him out to the singles scene.

So, anybody care to educate me on this one? I'm baffled.

And, is it Ken Burns Effect (no apostrophe, as in : Ken is burning) or Ken Burn's Effect (with apostrophe, as in belonging or pertaining to Ken Burns)

Re:What is this, "Ken Burns Effect"? (5, Informative)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458571)

And, is it Ken Burns Effect (no apostrophe, as in : Ken is burning) or Ken Burn's Effect (with apostrophe, as in belonging or pertaining to Ken Burns)

It's "Ken Burns Effect." See, there's this guy, Ken Burns. You may have heard of him. Made a couple of documentaries or something, including one about a war. Didn't have any video of the war-- I guess it happened before CNN or something-- so he had to use lots of still photos. The way he used them, panning across them while telling the story, got him some kind of recognition or something. So now whenever anybody pans across a still photo in a movie, it's called the Ken Burns Effect.

(Sorry for all the snideness. Up late last night, up early today. Bad combo.)

Re:What is this, "Ken Burns Effect"? (1)

TomorrowPlusX (571956) | more than 11 years ago | (#5460499)

Thank you!

I don't mind the snideness so much -- but, you should consider that not everybody watches everything on TV which you have. I never saw that documentary; & I pretty much don't watch television (barring simpsons reruns and conan o'brian). I certainly don't have cable, nor have I ever.

Anyway, thanks for the explanation. Also, now I realize that the slideshow screensavers must use this "ken burns effect".

Re:What is this, "Ken Burns Effect"? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5460870)

Twirlip's talking about the documentary series "Ken Burns Civil War". It was an outstanding series, IMHO, and well worth watching if it comes on PBS again, or if you can borrow a DVD set from someone.

And the effect was highly effective.

Re:What is this, "Ken Burns Effect"? (4, Interesting)

WatertonMan (550706) | more than 11 years ago | (#5460828)

Is Ken Burns the guy who did that Civil War documentary? If so, then yes, that was a pretty revolutionary effect. The problem was that if you have a voice over with no motion going on, people get restless and don't pay attention. (This being the MTV based concentration deprived generations) If you do various pans it subconsciously appears like action is going on. There were many other relatively revolutionary effects in that show. (Great documentary also)

If you do have a presentation and want to keep people's attention, it really does work.

As for *why* it works, I actually think that it probably comes from our primitive past when we noticed motion as a possible preditor ready to attack us or possible prey ready to feed us. Our eyes and brain are trained to focus more on change than stasis.

Re:What is this, "Ken Burns Effect"? (1)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 11 years ago | (#5461568)

Is Ken Burns the guy who did that Civil War documentary?

The Civil War, Baseball, Jazz, et cetera. He's completely different from but right up there with Errol Morris, in my opinion.

Re:What is this, "Ken Burns Effect"? (4, Informative)

dhovis (303725) | more than 11 years ago | (#5462176)

The problem was that if you have a voice over with no motion going on, people get restless and don't pay attention. (This being the MTV based concentration deprived generations)

That is a little harsh. One of the reasons the effect is so appealing is that human vision is tuned to picking up motion. The other thing is that a TV is not designed to display still pictures, so a moving still picture will look better on a TV than a stationary one.

And yes, it is the same Ken Burns of "The Civil War" et al. "The Ken Burns Effect" was the developmental name for Apple's pan & zoom effect, but when they showed it to Ken Burns himself, he gave his blessing to use his name in the finished product.

Re:What is this, "Ken Burns Effect"? (1)

DigiEdit (657472) | more than 11 years ago | (#5463896)

So, "Ken Burns Effect" may mean something to most American Mac users, but to everyone else in the rest of the world it means nothing at all. It may as well be the "Ken Morse Effect". In fact if it was I'm sure there would be a lot of snide remarks along the lines of "Who the heck's this guy?". So why not call it "Pan and Scan" or "Rostrum Effect' for the rest of us?

The thing is many non-Americans are already hacked off about the wastebasket being renamed 'trash', and more seriously, about the lack of offline printing support for iPhoto. You know, those nice bound photo albums you can order if you live in the States? Can't get 'em where I live. My PC owning friends can order something similar even if they are using crappy PC software. Grrrr...

I'm not anti-American, just a little peeved ;-)

Re:What is this, "Ken Burns Effect"? (1)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 11 years ago | (#5464008)

The thing is many non-Americans are already hacked off about the wastebasket being renamed 'trash'...

It seems to me that many non-Americans need to get a hobby or something. Sounds like they don't have enough to worry about in their lives. ...the lack of offline printing support for iPhoto.

What lack of offline printing support? Export your JPEGs from iPhoto and send 'em to the printer of your choice through whatever means that service provides.

Safari v64 Download (5, Informative)

ihatewinXP (638000) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458163)

Get it here http://www.deepapple.com/ Just go to the "Downloads" section. Seems much more stable the v62. Should be nearing real 1.0 status soon (even the beta 60 is being installed now as default on Apple demo machines as opposed to IE).

Re:Safari v64 Download (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5458222)

Shweet!

Only, posting this on slashdot almost guaranties that they will get that link shutdown... whuteveah.

Re:Safari v64 Download (1)

tbmaddux (145207) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458531)

(even the beta 60 is being installed now as default on Apple demo machines as opposed to IE).
Seriously? I picked up a new machine less than a month ago and I still had to rip out MSIE and install Safari myself. What's more, I stupidly did it in that order, leaving me wondering for a moment or two how I'd bootstrap back onto the web.

Re:Safari v64 Download (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5458745)

on Apple _demo_ machines in the retail stores.
Dumped IE and then went to download safari with...........? How did you end up figuring that one out ; )

Re:Safari v64 Download (1)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458837)

Okay, I give. What did you do? Did you have to put IE back on, or did you get Safari via FTP or iDisk or some such?

Re:Safari v64 Download (4, Informative)

selderrr (523988) | more than 11 years ago | (#5459077)

it's not that hard : go to another machine and write down the url (http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/camino/releases/Camino -0.7.dmg.gz)

and then use curl or wget in terminal.

Re:Safari v64 Download (3, Informative)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 11 years ago | (#5459482)

Or ftp. I recently needed to grab something remotely, and hunted in vain for wget, lynx, etc, on my Mac, as I hadn't installed it, and in exasperation just tried "ftp http://whatever/path/file", remembering that the BSD ftp already accepts "ftp" URLs.

It worked. Try it sometime, you'll like it.

Re:Safari v64 Download (2, Informative)

tbmaddux (145207) | more than 11 years ago | (#5461101)

use curl or wget in terminal.
FYI, no wget on my MacOS X 10.2.4 install, but curl is there.

Re:Safari v64 Download (1)

usr122122121 (563560) | more than 11 years ago | (#5465063)

FYI, no wget on my MacOS X 10.2.4 install, but curl is there.
In OS 10.0.X and 10.1.X, Apple included wget as the "fetcher" app of choice.
In OS 10.2.X, however, they changed over to curl (which I think was a good move, but others may disagree).

Thus, if you upgraded from 10.[0|1].X to 10.2.x, you have both curl and wget. Otherwise you only have one of the two, as outlined above.

Re:Safari v64 Download (1)

Large Green Mallard (31462) | more than 11 years ago | (#5469779)

Unless you went and downloaded and compiled your own copy of wget like me ;> Curl is annoying with the way it writes to stdout by default.

Re:Safari v64 Download (1)

netsrek (76063) | more than 11 years ago | (#5472952)

I find curl can't deal with urls that either have lots of special characters in them or that forward to another URL. Things like the link on mysql/php to download from one of the mirror sites, urls like: http://www.mysql.com/downloads/download.php?file=D ownloads%2FMySQL-3.23%2Fmysql-3.23.55-apple-darwin 6.1-powerpc.tar.gz&mirror=http%3A%2F%2Fmysql.ausga mers.com%2F that's why I installed wget...

Re:Safari v64 Download (1)

tbmaddux (145207) | more than 11 years ago | (#5459319)

What did you do?
If memory serves, I downloaded the Safari.dmg file from the web onto my PowerBook, and then brought it across via iPod.

I was kinda wondering if others would have better solutions -- at the time I thought to myself, "what if I didn't have this PowerBook? -- which is why I was cagey about it to begin with :)

Re:Safari v64 Download (0)

djupedal (584558) | more than 11 years ago | (#5462809)

You can FTP from the Finder in OS X. You can also pull pages via email and then there is the Software update panel, but that assumes Apple is serving it that way...then there is software update from the command line...and there are those discs that came with the computer - you can install IE from them long enough to http Safari. And then there is your friend who can mail it to you and sneaker net and...too many ways for it to really be an issue, me thinks. Anyone not savvy enough to know about the choices at hand has other issues, and they will be looking for someone to help them as it is. That help entity will be able to support a request for a new browser, I'm sure.

Re:Safari v64 Download (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5462890)

Man, you're a dick. Where do you work? I want to know so I can be sure to never, ever go there. Ever.

love you too (1, Offtopic)

djupedal (584558) | more than 11 years ago | (#5463379)

Don't worry, you can't get in. The age limit is thirteen and you have to be at least 4 ft tall.

Re:Safari v64 Download (1)

tbmaddux (145207) | more than 11 years ago | (#5464234)

Yeah, Software Update wasn't serving Safari at the time... in my experience it hasn't served any of the new standalone apps (such as the new iPhoto, iMovie, iTunes, Apple X11, and Safari) although it does serve updaters for the same (for example the iMovie 3.0.2 update).

Re:Safari v64 Download (4, Informative)

he1icine (512651) | more than 11 years ago | (#5459022)

the URL to the actual file is this:

http://www.deepapple.com/downloads/index.phtml?S ES SION=8de6521251f3347e6cc0bdcde14e304f&oid=705&type =source&SESSION=8de6521251f3347e6cc0bdcde14e30 4f

and once again if you haven't enable the debug menu, quit safari, open terminal and type:

defaults write com.apple.safari IncludeDebugMenu 0

relaunch safari, the debug menu is on the right and you can turn tabs (etc.) on there

Re:Safari v64 Download (5, Informative)

he1icine (512651) | more than 11 years ago | (#5459044)

oops, I fscked up

this turns debug on:

defaults write com.apple.safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

this turns it off:

defaults write com.apple.safari IncludeDebugMenu 0

Re:Safari v64 Download (1)

Large Green Mallard (31462) | more than 11 years ago | (#5469768)

In soviet russia, you distribute Apple!

Sorry, obligatory cliche for a russian mac user site. But god bless them and their lack of IP law enforcement ;)

Re:Safari v64 Download (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5478988)

Dumbfuck. You totally fucked up a good joke.

Ahem:

IN SOVIET RUSSIA, Apple distributes YOU!

Re:Safari v64 Download (1)

mashx (106208) | more than 11 years ago | (#5476060)

From the licensing agreement before install:
The term of this License shall commence upon your download or first use of the Apple Software and will terminate automatically without notice from Apple upon the commercial release of the Apple Software, or June 30, 2003, whichever occurs first.
Doesn't seem that far away...

Safari v64 (4, Informative)

Erik K. Veland (574016) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458189)

Tabs are much improved and seem a lot faster too. You can now use your regular bookmarks as tab-collections by command-clicking a folder in your bookmark bar or choosing the Open in Tabs-option in it's menu.

The loading info is very useful too. All in all the perfect tabs-implementation. Only nit-pickers care which direction the tabs face :)

Oh, and auto-complete from Adress-book. Trés cool!

Re:Safari v64 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5458612)

All in all the perfect tabs-implementation.

What combo of shift and command and whatever do you hold down to let you drag the tabs to reorder them?

Oh, and auto-complete from Adress-book. Trés cool!

How is this supposed to work? I can't figure it out. I guess I'm just a dumbass or something. I've got the debug menu open and the "Autocomplete Forms With Address Book" item checked, now what?

Re:Safari v64 (3, Interesting)

maxentius (603949) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458630)

(Posting from Camino.)

Both Safari v64 and Camino seem a bit faster, especially Camino. Also, .7 seems considerably more stable than Chimera .6 was. Chimera would crash pretty often if I had, say, three or four windows open, each with five or six tabs. I haven't been able to reproduce that with Camino.

In Process Viewer, Camino seems a bit more memory efficient, particularly with several tabs open.

I prefer the mass-bookmark (tab group? favorite folder?) approach that Camino uses over Safari's implementation, which still seems pretty crude. I get where I need to be in fewer clicks with Camino. Not to say that Safari won't get better.

Rendering-wise, I think they look about the same, though I prefer the Camino widgets and layout, not to mention the tab metaphor logic. On the other hand, the Safari tabs each have their own close button, albeit a non-standard "x" in a circle ... actually I'm not sure whether that works or not. It wastes space on the tab bar, that's for sure.

Now, what I want to see is the ability to make one's home page a tab group. That seems pretty obvious.

Re:Safari v64 (4, Informative)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458856)

On the other hand, the Safari tabs each have their own close button, albeit a non-standard "x" in a circle

That's not non-standard. It's a standard Cocoa widget used to close a pane or other window part, although in all honesty I'm too lazy right now to look it up and give you more details. Suffice it to say that the x-in-a-circle close-widget has been used in Project Builder for months, at least.

Re:Safari v64 (4, Interesting)

WatertonMan (550706) | more than 11 years ago | (#5461123)

I was about to respond and saw you'd made my point. (Avoiding that -1 Redundant score for us kharma whores)

I would point out though that a lot of people *don't* like the interface for Project Builder and do find it somewhat jarring compared to the rest of the OSX GUI. Still, I'm hard pressed to come up with a different way to do it functionally, beyond requiring a right click to a context menu. But that would then contradict Apple's desire to have a visual clue for action. (i.e. no "invisibile" UIs for necessary actions)

I should also point out that v64 fixes a bug that kept the tabs from looking right when you put an Aqua appearance to Safari instead of Brushed Metal. (It looks much better) For those who've not downloaded v64 for fear of stability issues, you can check it out along with a discussion at MacNN [macnn.com].

I'm one of those who hasn't downloaded the beta. I prefer stability at the moment and the public beta of Safari is very nice. (I think Apple just made references to these betas to get the tab fanatics out of their hair) One thing I hope that the Safari final has is the ability ala Adobe apps to drag tabs out of the window and automatically create a new window.

Re:Safari v64 (2, Informative)

TotallyUseless (157895) | more than 11 years ago | (#5461391)

right now dragging a tab in the latest beta does nothing. In fact, the browser switches to the clicked tab on the mouse down, rather than on mouse up. Offhand, I can't think of any other Apple designed UI elements that actually activate, rather than showing pending activation on mouse down. Most wait until the mouse up signal to actually do their job. Im sure if there are other examples someone will be kind enough to point them out here.

Re:Safari v64 (1)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 11 years ago | (#5461525)

This is, in my opinion, just another sign that the tabbed browsing feature in these unreleased builds is an internal-only hack that is not intended to be seen by people outside of Apple. I can't believe, first of all, that Apple would add one or more major features to a piece of beta software, and secondly that Apple would ever put their name on something so half-assed.

Re:Safari v64 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5461682)

Tell that to Hyatt.

God you are a shithead. Are you actually able to read?

Re:Safari v64 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5462930)

You must be new around here. Everybody knows Tulip. Apparently he works at the white house or something, but he still posts about Safari for reasons nobody can seem to understnad. Have you read his journal? Yes, he's a shithead, but he's the smartest fucking shithead on Slashdot, and I think it pisses everybody off.

download manager (2, Informative)

maxentius (603949) | more than 11 years ago | (#5463105)

Yes, you're right that the x-in-a-circle appears to be a standard widget. Sigh. Even Camino uses it in the redesigned download manager. Strangely, I preferred the old way Chimera did downloads -- you clicked, a window opened, showed the progress, then went away. Now, in Camino, a download opens the manager, and a two-inch deep panel describes the download in progress ... and then stays open. The next download adds another two inches to the manager window. Etc.

Which is where these new "standard" close buttons come in. Each download panel has its own button; when all are closed, the 2-inch window tells you there's nothing to display. Very pVT.

The red stoplight closes the whole thing, of course. I'm mostly irritated by the beanstalk window; it could be very easily refined with a preference setting or two. In the meantime it leaves me pining for the IE download manager. Yuk.

Sorry about that widget mistake. I've been running Macs since 1985. First time I'd ever seen it -- and I've happily adapted to OSX.

Re:Safari v64 (2, Funny)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 11 years ago | (#5461824)

Both Safari v64 and Camino seem a bit faster, especially Camino.

I forgot to ask. Does Chimeramino still take like 17 1/2 hours to launch?

Re:Safari v64 (1)

maxentius (603949) | more than 11 years ago | (#5461916)

Three seconds on my Quicksilver dualie.

Re:Safari v64 (1)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 11 years ago | (#5461985)

Is that three seconds on subsequent launches? Just for kicks, since I posted this comment, I downloaded the beta and tried it. First launch on my 2x1 GHz MDD with plenty of RAM: about 12 seconds by the count in my head, which probably means it was closer to seven or eight.

On subsequent launches it was closer to two or three, which is certainly an improvement, but there's still that stupid splash screen thing. I swear, if they took out the code to load and display and then clear the splash screen, the program would launch instantly, Safari-style. Safari launches in less time than it takes for me to get my mouse from the dock back up to the top of the screen again, which is just fast enough for me, thank you.

Re:Safari v64 (1)

ruprechtjones (545762) | more than 11 years ago | (#5472770)

Heh heh, that gets my vote for best new name for Mozilla's OS X browser.

"I'll always remember Chimeramino, chimeramino, chimeramino..."

"My name is Camino."

"Chimeramino..."

Re:Safari v64 (3, Interesting)

The Bum (597124) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458729)

Safari won't supplant Camino as my browser of choice until it gets Keychain integration like Camino has (it auto-fills user names and passwords on Web forms, not just on login dialogs and specially-coded forms).

In classic Slashdot style... (5, Funny)

pi radians (170660) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458215)

"Friday Morning Release Party" is everybody elses "Thursday Afternoon Release Party".

Re:In classic Slashdot style... (1)

derch (184205) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458497)

Err?

Where are you living that 8:30 Friday morning on the US East coast is still Thursday afternoon? Most of the world is already into Friday afternoon.

Re:In classic Slashdot style... (1)

derch (184205) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458643)

Argh, where's the damn "I want to delete this post because I hadn't had coffee yet, so what you were saying didn't click" button!

You were saying the update was posted yesterday afternoon, not that the Slashdot editor was being an arrogant American and assuming it was Friday morning for most people. Duh!

Re:In classic Slashdot style... (1)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458653)

He (?) meant that this stuff actually happened yesterday, but that Slashdot is just getting around to posting it this morning. Ergo, the rest of the world's Thursday Afternoon Release Party becomes Slashdot's... well, you get the idea.

Re:In classic Slashdot style... (4, Funny)

pudge (3605) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458871)

Hey, did you submit any of these? Nope. All the submissions arrived overnight, not during the afternoon, nor early evening. Those who don't submit can stick their complaints in their ear. :)

Multiple Homepages (5, Interesting)

revitup.org (657302) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458419)

I'm loving Safari, but I really want Apple to implement a feature that enables a user to have multiple homepages, which are displayed in different tabs at startup. I'm not sure if another browser has this feature, but I think it would be killer.

Re:Multiple Homepages (4, Informative)

Atomizer (25193) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458859)

Mozilla has it, I'm using it right now. The only annoying thing I find with it, is that if you have two (out of three) of your home pages open and you click home, you get another three tabs. It would be cool if there was an option to only load the pages you didn't already have open.

Re:Multiple Homepages (1)

Strog (129969) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458924)

Check out Phoenix [mozilla.org] on Linux, Solaris and Win32 but not OS X. They are leaving Chimera to OS X. I don't know of one for OS X but Phoenix is very nice on the other platforms. I have 4 pages open when I fire it up.

Re:Multiple Homepages (1)

Patrick Lewis (30844) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458979)

Late Mozilla builds have this (I have 1.2.1, and it works there). You can set your 'Homepage' to be the current 'Group' of tabs. And I do like it a lot; it loads all my favorite pages in their own tabs on startup.

Re:Multiple Homepages (2, Informative)

no_demons (602587) | more than 11 years ago | (#5463234)

Well, I'm not sure we'll ever see Safari with this particular feature. Found this info [mozillazine.org] from tab guru David Hyatt. According to this, all the other tab implementations discussed here were his idea, and he now works on Safari.

I feel release (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5458481)

Dear Apple,

I am a homosexual. I bought an Apple computer because of its well earned reputation for being "the" gay computer. Since I have become an Apple owner, I have been exposed to a whole new world of gay friends. It is really a pleasure to meet and compute with other homos such as myself. I plan on using my new Apple computer as a way to entice and recruit young schoolboys into the homosexual lifestyle; it would be so helpful if you could produce more software which would appeal to young boys. Thanks in advance.

with much gayness,

Father Randy "Pudge" O'Day, S.J.

Autocomplete (1, Offtopic)

jode_sanders (657282) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458907)

I cannot get autocomplete to work at all, despite having both options selected in the debug menu. Can anyone suggest a site this works on, as it maybe requires specially coded forms? Oddly enough... keychain asked if it could decrypt Safari or something along those lines, so I guess somethings happening in the background. Anyone getting autocomplete to work!??!??

Camino and Safari (5, Interesting)

RalphBNumbers (655475) | more than 11 years ago | (#5458946)

One interesting tidbit is that they've announced that this will be the last Chimera/Camino release to be based on the 1.0 Mozilla branch. They'll finally be pulling up to the current Mozilla 1.3 branch, which should fix alot of bugs(Including one I find really annoying, which both Chimera and Safari share, the inability to copy/paste japanese text with most carbon apps, yay!), as well as provide some performance increase. This leaves only one big feature on my wishlist for Camino: Native text fields, with spell checking and all. Safari has spell checking, but it still has to be manually enabled for each field, which I consider a bug. Safari meanwhile is advancing at a breakneck pace. Beta62 had tabs, although there were some really annoying bugs (like the close tab command occasionally closing the whole window instead. DOH!). Hopefully today's b64 will fix that, in addition to adding tab support to bookmarks.

Re:Camino and Safari (1)

lavar78 (573962) | more than 11 years ago | (#5459362)

like the close tab command occasionally closing the whole window instead. DOH!
That's what it's supposed to do (close the whole window). They decided to leave it standard instead of changing it like Camino did. However, they neglected to give a shortcut for closing tabs. I used KeyboardMaestro to assign it to Cmd-Shift-W.

You're mistaken (3, Interesting)

RalphBNumbers (655475) | more than 11 years ago | (#5459583)

No, they use the same key combos as Camino. Cmd-W closes a tab, or the window if there are no tabs, while Cmd-Shift-W closes the window if there are tabs (and oddly does nothing when no tabs are open, that's probably not optimum behavior).

They just hadn't finished implementing their custom menu/command keys in beta62.
In beta64, you can just open a tab and look in the file menu to see what I mean, the key combos are properly shown.

Re:You're mistaken (1)

lavar78 (573962) | more than 11 years ago | (#5460058)

They just hadn't finished implementing their custom menu/command keys in beta62. In beta64, you can just open a tab and look in the file menu to see what I mean, the key combos are properly shown.
I see that now. When I originally checked the File menu, I didn't have any tabs. Silly me. Thanks for the correction.

Re:Camino and Safari (1)

usr122122121 (563560) | more than 11 years ago | (#5465105)

Beta62 had tabs, although there were some really annoying bugs (like the close tab command occasionally closing the whole window instead. DOH!)
Let me get this straight... you're complaining that an INTERNAL BETA VERSION of a program has a bug in it?

We weren't meant to have it, so don't act like Apple overlooked a major functionality... they just weren't done yet with the implementation. It's that simple.
Geez.

internet explorer (4, Interesting)

paradesign (561561) | more than 11 years ago | (#5459378)

when is MS going to update its IE for mac? it seems that they are falling behind even more every day. or is MS going to pull out of the mac browser market, which they previously had a large claim to. i cannot see that happening though, but i can see a MS browser on par with MS's flagship mac product, Office v.x. if IE played as nice as office on the mac, wed have a nice three way browser war, chim... err camino vs safari vs ie v.x. but seriously, ie for the mac is getting dusty its so outdated.

Re:internet explorer (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5459889)

Microsoft has already pulled out of IE development, or at least all of its people are off the project. They are instead developing an MSN browser for OS X. It looks very good, but it's obviously targeting a completely different market.

Re:internet explorer (3, Informative)

bruce.adams (596972) | more than 11 years ago | (#5460347)

The one thing that IE on the Mac has that I've never seen in any other browser is a great print preview. It lets you scale the printout and see what you are going to get immediately. It also lets you "push" the top of the web page (where the nav-bar and ads are) off of the paper. Safari scales the printout based on the viewing window width (which wasn't immediately obvious to me). One can go through print preview to see what you are going to get, but it's much more painful.

Caminera autoproxy? (2, Interesting)

MachineShedFred (621896) | more than 11 years ago | (#5460135)

In the release notes for Camino / Chimera, it mentions that they have added the functionality for proxy autoconfiguration (.PAC files). There is no preference pane for it, but I did find documentation about editing the user.js file in ~/Library/Application Support/ / though it still doesn't work.

Anyone else running an autoproxy and had better luck?

Re:Caminera autoproxy? (0)

jbloggs (535329) | more than 11 years ago | (#5464661)

yeah i've had to problem....followed teh directions exactly. keep in mind they say it doesn't work for the first page load

i love browser wars! (1)

buzban (227721) | more than 11 years ago | (#5461384)

or any app wars where the artillery is actually features! Much better than browser wars or other wars centered around competing standards, poor functionality, and corporate greed, IMO. ;)

I don't. (1)

alispguru (72689) | more than 11 years ago | (#5462009)

Browser wars leave behind battlefields full of gratuitous incompatibilities. A browser war on Mac OS might drive people back to Internet Explorer.

Remember, Javascript is one of the craterfields left behind from the Netscape/Microsoft browser war.

Re:I don't. (1)

WatertonMan (550706) | more than 11 years ago | (#5462888)

Javascript is a nice little scripting language. Nothing wrong with it and it fits the market it is after. Lots of other projects use it (such as Apple's own Sherlock technology). Certainly it is better than IE's crippled version of Visual Basic.

This being Slashdot, I'm sure a lot of people are shocked and disappointed that Microsoft and Netscape didn't use Perl. But realistically for what they were doing Javascript was great.

Minor clarification (1)

alispguru (72689) | more than 11 years ago | (#5464811)

Javascript is a tolerable language, and Javascript per se is not all that unportable. The problem is the API/DOM that connects Javascript to its browser environment - that's where the gratuitous incompatibilities gallop in.

Re:I don't. (2, Insightful)

no_demons (602587) | more than 11 years ago | (#5463300)

Is Javascript really so good?

Whilst the 'concept' of a client side scripting language is a good one, the way Javascript has been implemented by the larger browsers is shameful. In some cases you can end up writing 5 different functions to do the same thing.

Perhaps some people enjoy the pain staking cross browser tester, but not me.

But who is really to blame? Was it really the Browser War that caused this?

Tried Camino. (1)

Alex Thorpe (575736) | more than 11 years ago | (#5461613)

After using Safari, Camino felt a little pokey, not so much in rendering speed as in scrolling speed and general responsiveness. On the other hand, if I go back to OmniWeb, the scroll wheel feels too responsive, and I often overshoot what I'm looking for.

I'm not a fan of Tabbed Browsing so far. I have plenty of memory and DSL, so I don't see much need for them.

Fight the System! (4, Funny)

Cheesewhiz (61745) | more than 11 years ago | (#5461969)

I just downloaded Camino 0.7 and renamed it immediately to Chimera, so HA! Legal can take that and shove it up there copyrighted, restricted, internationally-patented asses!

"It makes me feel powerful." ?Hamilton Morris

Fight the system!

Enable pipelining in Camino (5, Informative)

Draconix (653959) | more than 11 years ago | (#5462023)

This will greatly increase browsing speed, though it supposedly reduces stability, I've been using it for a long time, and haven't noticed a reduction in stability.

First, make sure Camino is not running. Then open the prefs.js file, located in Library(the one in your user directory)/Application Support/Chimera/profiles/default/.slt

Paste these lines into it:

user_pref("network.http.pipelining", true);
user_pref("network.http.proxy.pipelining", true);


Note: I got this information from Mac OS X Hints [macosxhints.com] some time back. A handy thing to know.

That last directory (1)

Draconix (653959) | more than 11 years ago | (#5462039)

That last directory that shows as .slt is a generated number followed by .slt, such as s345f3.slt

Safari printing is awful! (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5463929)

I switched back to Camino after printing several pages from Safari. Safari's notion of printing is actually worse than printing in Netscape 4 was, a hard act to follow.

Re:Safari printing is awful! (2, Informative)

bruce.adams (596972) | more than 11 years ago | (#5464839)

Safari scales the printout to match the window on the screen (someone's idea of WYSIWYG I guess).

Look carefully at the screen and the printout, the lines breaks in the text match exactly. If you want bigger text and graphics in your printout, make the your window narrower.

"TextEdit" does the same thing, if it is wrapping text to the window width (seeing this in TextEdit is the only reason is the only reason I figured it out in Safari).

Sweet (4, Funny)

AntiGenX (589768) | more than 11 years ago | (#5464780)

A release party!? Sweet! To bad I couldn't attend. Although, I can't wait to see the video.

What do you mean there's no video? I thought this was the release party for iMovie?

Still has audio issues. (1)

nsayer (86181) | more than 11 years ago | (#5467790)

3.0.2 still does not solve the audio problems described here [miglia.com], although the workaround of extracting the audio does solve the problem.

Two questions on Safari (1)

chessnotation (601394) | more than 11 years ago | (#5473140)

1. The currently official released Safari beta (v60) turns itself off on July first this year. When do the leaked versions expire? 2. What happens on the expiration date of the last beta version? I can see Apple starting asking for cash for post-beta Safari versions, just as they have for OS X. This may not be an altogether bad thing as long as the price is reasonable and earnest efforts are made towards bugfixes, speed enhancements, and functionality improvements (in that order).

v64 problems (1)

tunesmith (136392) | more than 11 years ago | (#5473416)

Safari oddly has a hell of a time opening certain sites like msnbc.com . v62 didn't, mozilla doesn't (even loading at the same time).
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