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The Internship That Students Drool Over

michael posted more than 11 years ago | from the become-a-sith-lord dept.

Microsoft 692

selan writes "The Baltimore Sun has a feature on Microsoft's internship program and why it is so popular with college students. Not only are interns paid, but they also receive the same perks as other Microsoft employees. At the end of the summer they are treated to a catered barbecue at Bill Gates's house and have a good shot at a full time job after graduation. You do not know the power of the Dark Side."

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Internship? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475722)

I'd give it all up just to score a FP.

Re:Internship? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475750)

i would have thought that this post would have gotten modded up as funny.

Re:Internship? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475878)

I'm really excited by George Bush's latest reason for bombing Iraq: he's running out of patience. And so am I!

For some time now I've been really pissed off with Mr Johnson, who lives a couple of doors down the street. Well, him and Mr Patel, who runs the health food shop. They both give me queer looks, and I'm sure Mr Johnson is planning something nasty for me, but so far I haven't been able to discover what. I've been round to his place a few times to see what he's up to, but he's got everything well hidden. That's how devious he is.

As for Mr Patel, don't ask me how I know, I just know - from very good sources - that he is, in reality, a Mass Murderer. I have leafleted the street telling them that if we don't act first, he'll pick us off one by one.

Some of my neighbours say, if I've got proof, why don't I go to the police? But that's simply ridiculous. The police will say that they need evidence of a crime with which to charge my neighbours.

They'll come up with endless red tape and quibbling about the rights and wrongs of a pre-emptive strike and all the while Mr Johnson will be finalising his plans to do terrible things to me, while Mr Patel will be secretly murdering people. Since I'm the only one in the street with a decent range of automatic firearms, I reckon it's up to me to keep the peace. But until recently that's been a little difficult. Now, however, George W. Bush has made it clear that all I need to do is run out of patience, and then I can wade in and do whatever I want!

And let's face it, Mr Bush's carefully thought-out policy towards Iraq is the only way to bring about international peace and security. The one certain way to stop Muslim fundamentalist suicide bombers targeting the US or the UK is to bomb a few Muslim countries that have never threatened us.

That's why I want to blow up Mr Johnson's garage and kill his wife and children. Strike first! That'll teach him a lesson. Then he'll leave us in peace and stop peering at me in that totally unacceptable way.

Mr Bush makes it clear that all he needs to know before bombing Iraq is that Saddam is a really nasty man and that he has weapons of mass destruction - even if no one can find them. I'm certain I've just as much justification for killing Mr Johnson's wife and children as Mr Bush has for bombing Iraq.

Mr Bush's long-term aim is to make the world a safer place by eliminating 'rogue states' and 'terrorism'. It's such a clever long-term aim because how can you ever know when you've achieved it? How will Mr Bush know when he's wiped out all terrorists? When every single terrorist is dead? But then a terrorist is only a terrorist once he's committed an act of terror. What about would-be terrorists? These are the ones you really want to eliminate, since most of the known terrorists, being suicide bombers, have already eliminated themselves.

Perhaps Mr Bush needs to wipe out everyone who could possibly be a future terrorist? Maybe he can't be sure he's achieved his objective until every Muslim fundamentalist is dead? But then some moderate Muslims might convert to fundamentalism. Maybe the only really safe thing to do would be for Mr Bush to eliminate all Muslims?

It's the same in my street. Mr Johnson and Mr Patel are just the tip of the iceberg. There are dozens of other people in the street who I don't like and who - quite frankly - look at me in odd ways. No one will be really safe until I've wiped them all out.

My wife says I might be going too far but I tell her I'm simply using the same logic as the President of the United States. That shuts her up.

Like Mr Bush, I've run out of patience, and if that's a good enough reason for the President, it's good enough for me. I'm going to give the whole street two weeks - no, 10 days - to come out in the open and hand over all aliens and interplanetary hijackers, galactic outlaws and interstellar terrorist masterminds, and if they don't hand them over nicely and say 'Thank you', I'm going to bomb the entire street to kingdom come.

It's just as sane as what George W. Bush is proposing - and, in contrast to what he's intending, my policy will destroy only one street.

Are most internships unpaid then? (4, Interesting)

matthew.thompson (44814) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475724)

Sorry if it's a stupid question but I would have thought most internships are paid - at some level or another.

Or have I got the wrong view of this completely?

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (2, Informative)

F452 (97091) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475737)

Yes, you do seem to be operating under a misconception. Many internships are not paid. Or you could say the pay is the experience. It might be that most I/T internships are paid, but maybe that is changing now.

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (2, Informative)

nbvb (32836) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475757)

Many internships are not paid. Or you could say the pay is the experience. It might be that most I/T internships are paid, but maybe that is changing now.


Really? Many moons ago (~10 years ago) I did some internship work at Warner Music (Before we had this whole World Wide Web thing, and certainly before Napster was even a wet dream ....) and I was paid for my time. :)

I'm surprised to hear that most internships aren't paid at all.... I figured they wouldn't pay WELL, but they'd pay at least something!

--DM

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (1)

F452 (97091) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475784)

Hmm... Well, I'm not sure if I'd say that _most_ are unpaid. Actually, maybe I shouldn't say anything since I'm going on totally subjective opinions based on a few articles I've read. I just get the idea that there are a lot of unpaid internships.

I'm pretty sure Chandler Bing isn't getting paid for his advertising internship.

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475765)

Non-paying intern for engineer is unheard of.
Most liberal arts interns aren't paid, like Lewinsky wasn't paid. But I'd say she gets a lot more out of a non-paying one.

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475807)

For what it's worth [googlefight.com]

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (-1, Offtopic)

robtm (199348) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475752)

I've heard Bill's interns get payment "in natura".
Oops, was another Bill I was thinking about...

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (0, Flamebait)

watzinaneihm (627119) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475776)

RTFA.The article clearly says some interns dont get paid. Dont ask me which loophole of the law they use

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (1)

BlueUnderwear (73957) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475800)

Back in the day (1992) when I did my internship at DEC/SRC, I did get paid. So this doesn't seem to be specific to MSFT.

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (5, Informative)

Hal-9001 (43188) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475900)

The general rule is that techie internships (computer science, engineering, etc.) are paid, and fuzzy internships (business, politics, journalism, arts) are unpaid. There are some exceptions to the latter where fuzzies get paid, but there are very rarely to the former where techies are not paid. The reason is simple economics: there is more demand for and less supply of techies, so techies can always blow off unpaid internships and go somewhere else where they get paid, whereas that's not always true for fuzzies.

OTOH, that doesn't mean that short-sighted tech companies won't slash their internship programs or otherwise leave techies out in the cold. I was supposed to have an engineering internship at On Semiconductor (a Motorola spin-off) paying about $20/hour during the summer of 2001. Unfortunately, the semiconductor industry collapsed that spring, and On cut their entire internship program in addition to cutting lots of permanent positions. Guess who won't ever work for On, or buy any of their parts unless I absolutely have to... :-p

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475917)

fuzzy internships (business, politics, journalism, arts) are unpaid.

Or, as was the case for Ms Lewinsky, they are paid in natura...

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (0)

jkrise (535370) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475777)

College students are gifted with high intellect and thin wallets. The combination is too good for a manipulator such as MS to resist. The few crumbs MS thros at the interns must mean a lot.

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (5, Interesting)

Amroarer (645110) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475949)

Few crumbs? Did you read the article?

Say what you like about Microsoft's software/market policy/lawyers, they look like they genuinely take care of their employees. The pay is good (damn good for an intern - about twice what I earned as a student engineer on a vaguely similar scheme in the UK). The working conditions are good. They appear to offer considerable freedom in your working practices.

All of these things are genuinely attractive to a graduating student. Hey, if I was thinking of switching jobs now, they're high up on the list of things I'd be looking for too. Working for a company which actually seems to care about you is a very fulfilling experience.

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (3, Informative)

Jason O'Neil (607723) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475785)

From the article

Many companies do not pay interns, said Bill Coleman, senior vice president of compensation for Wellesley, Mass.-based Salary.com, a software company that researches corporate pay and employment practices. He estimated that an internship at Microsoft may pay as much as $25 an hour, or $1,000 a week.

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475828)

It really depends on the place and type of work.

I can't imagine an internship in the software field that is unpaid - I won't say it doesn't happen, but I would say the majority are paid.

The entertainment/media industry is very different. My cousin interned with ESPN for a few summers and he was never once paid. The first year, his internship was "getting donuts and coffee" for staffers. The second year he actually much more responsibility, like washing cars for execs, and delivering mail. Sounds like a fun internship, no?

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (-1, Troll)

dolo666 (195584) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475830)

Not if they are weasel internships, where you get to be a weasel if they hire you full time. Those are free internships, because they are designed by weasels, for weasels. If you were interning for a non-weasel company, they would pay you almost as much as a full time employee. But you wouldn't get much more when you were hired.

At Microsoft, you get to do practically nothing once you're hired, except move goal posts. You can also be a safety conscious employee. There is also the next forty versions of windows after the next thirty they already have done to work on. Working on a new version of Windows usually means making some bugs and then taking a few years to fix them. It's not that hard -- expecially when you made the bugs to begin with.

Back to internship. You don't have to be paid because the job pays for itself!

Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (0)

Joe the Lesser (533425) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475873)

The only unpaid internships I've seen advertised are for poor research groups and such.

I want to intern at WatchMeDance.com (0, Troll)

NickCageIsNamor (655638) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475726)

I want to intern at WatchMeDance [watchmedance.com] . I am a good dancer and I know how to get into the goove!

Re:I want to intern at WatchMeDance.com (1)

$$$exy Gwen Araujo (654821) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475809)

Steve Ballmer? [ntk.net] Is that you? Shame on you, you're too old to intern now :)

I am your father Luke! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475727)

First Post. Ha!

LINUX IS DYING (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475728)

One more reason why Microsoft > Linux. When was the last time you heard of Linus Tovalds doing anything cool, or even having a BBQ? What a Scandinavian JACKASS. Leave software to AMERICANS, you Finnish piece of shit. I have an American flag I'd like to ram up your fucking swedish chef ass.

Re:LINUX IS DYING (0)

IAR80 (598046) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475742)

I bet you'll get the internship. ;)

Re:LINUX IS DYING (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475756)

You seem to forget that Bill is actually cooking the interns from the year before. You don't think he'd spend HIS bucks on interns, do you?

Read it wrong (5, Funny)

jez9999 (618189) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475734)

they are treated to a catered barbecue at Bill Gates's house and have a good shot at a full time job after graduation.

For a second or two, I thought that sentance was gonna finish "and have a good shot at Bill Gates's head". Really.

Re:Read it wrong (0)

jkrise (535370) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475877)

And, for a second or two, I thought that the interns were gonna be barbecued! Really.

Re:Read it wrong (1)

Surak (18578) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475912)

Ah, you must be related to esr. :-P

Negro Month Reprise: Sammy Davis Jr. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475738)

Sammy Davis Jr.

On November 19, 1954, the career of Sammy Davis Jr. almost came to a sudden and tragic close. While driving to Los Angeles to record the title tune of the Universal International picture "Six Bridges to Cross", Sammy was the victim of an automobile smash-up and narrowly escaped death. He was so seriously injured that his left eye had to be removed. In spite of the terrible shock, Sammy rallied and went on with his work; he even insisted that he was the "luckiest guy in the world".

Since his accident, Sammy's courageous spirit and ever-growing talent have won him increasingly enthusiastic audiences. Let's hear it for Sammy Davis Jr. !

Celebrate Negro Month 2003 with Slashdot.

Experience (5, Informative)

BluGuy (617572) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475739)

I have a good friend who interned an MS. He had a good experience, and was offered a job when he graduated. They pay interns very well, but they are expected to pull 55+ work weeks, and have no weekends. If you can get past the stigma of working for the Dark Side, it's a great opprotunity...

Re:Experience (3, Informative)

Meddel (152734) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475852)

From my own internship experience there, this is *highly* group dependent. There are groups where one might be expected to pull 60 hours a week, but there are many where 40 or so would be perfectly acceptable.

Re:Experience (2, Insightful)

jkrise (535370) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475856)

"They pay interns very well, but they are expected to pull 55+ work weeks, and have no weekends. "

I can't think of a better way to completely alienate regular employees. They must be worried sick, trying to keep their jobs, with 'cheap' competition at hand. This prbably also explains the quality of MS code.

Re:Experience (5, Insightful)

91degrees (207121) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475918)

This prbably also explains the quality of MS code.

I dunno. MS stuff may have some seriously bad design flaws dotted around, but can you think of any proprietry commercial software that's any better? Except for safety critical stuff, there's a hell of a lot of bad code out there. MS is only noticed as much because they produce so much of it.

Re:Experience (0)

froth (466330) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475922)

It's generaly socially acceptable in the corporate world to view interns as sub-human. Thus no one really fears them. Mostly they get picked on.

Re:Experience (5, Insightful)

BTWR (540147) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475859)

If you can get past the stigma of working for the Dark Side

This "Stigma" you speak of is only within the "geek" community. You tell everyone at your high school reunion "I'm a vice president at Microsoft" you'll be the envy of everyone. The 5 kids from the computer club might shun you, but no one else will. :-)

Re:Experience (5, Interesting)

LeiGong (621856) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475903)

Not everyone is expected to work 50+ hours a week or even more than 40 hours a week. It all depends on your group and where they are in the product developement cycle. I can speak for myself and some of my friend when I say we were in by 10 and out by 7, every Monday through Friday. We had social lives outside of the office and almost NEVER went into the office on weekends unless we needed to use the high-speed connection to surf the web (we didn't have high-speed in the apartments). If he didn't take advantage of the Pudget Sound area, he really missed out on the whole intern experience.

Re:Experience (1)

silvwolf (103567) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475944)

My sister's boyfriend interned for them during the summer of 2001. They promised him a job when he graduated in December of 2001... When he called his recruiter/handler/storm trooper in November 01, he was told there was a hiring freeze. Doh! He sat unemployed for about 6 months before he could finally find something.

Microsoft Interships (5, Funny)

The-Bus (138060) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475740)

(Dell Guy Voice)
Dude, you're working in Hell!

hrmm (4, Funny)

odyrithm (461343) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475743)

more like an Intergration into the borg mother ship ;)

Open Source must strike back! (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475744)

I propose that we create our own intern positions (special sourceforge accounts maybe?), and at the end of the year they are all treated to a barbecue by Linus!

Actually I'm half serious. Perhaps we really should be taking on interns; it strengthens both persons involved in the relation and open source in general.

Re:Open Source must strike back! (1)

odyrithm (461343) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475763)

and at the end of the year they are all treated to a barbecue by Linus!

Good idea, but Linus is not rich, Billy is.

Re:Open Source must strike back! (5, Insightful)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475971)

Can't happen, the very nature of distributed development prevents it. This article is basically about geeks going "wow, cool" when faced with stupendous concentrations of wealth that is then spent by other geeks. It's computer-person utopia.

Unfortunately, the real world is not such a utopia. The real world is what you get when the market economy actually works, as opposed to the computer industry, where it's been warped and twisted into a smoking pile of slag.

Open source and free software are about sharing the (intellectual) wealth around, making it available to anybody, not concentrating it in one place. It's a people thing.

This article is the modern day equivalent of stories of how rich and opulent the Kings palaces are, how his staff and manservants live in stunning surroundings and how much they love the King for it. Interesting reading, and it certainly sounds like a cool place to work, but not sadly reflective of anything that can be really recreated while we use our current economic system.

Oh BTW, I might as well remind you that some say [billparish.com] it's all built on a house of cards. Is it true? I don't know. Make up your own mind.

In this economy... (-1, Redundant)

billmaly (212308) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475745)

The Dark Side could be looking pretty damn good! And who wouldn't like to go to the 5 year HS Reunion, see all the schlubs who are still living with the 'rents, and say "Yeah, I'm getting 6 figures from Microsoft...maybe you've heard of them!". MMMMMM....sweet temptation!!!!

Re:In this phonIE payper liesense stock markup. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475843)

'economIE', 6's are turning up everywhere. almost as frequeNT as indictmeNTs.

take heart, there is the good works of the hobbyists, to insure that the badtoll never returns to US again.

If you're taking monIE to peddle infactdead BugWear(tm) (like robbIE/lairIE are), such as noted at trustworthycomputing.com, you might want to check your .asp for smoke/flames coming out of it.

Re:In this economy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475891)

Great, it's people like you who pisses people like me off.

I still live at home with my parents, but by next April I will be living in my 3 lvl house on a decent sized amount of land. I'm saving up my money right now to allow me to do that. I hate living in apartments and I don't feel like renting a place with my friends atm. I want MY own place and to do so I need to live at home so I can save money.

Fuck you and your insensitivity and your willingness to look down on the misfortunes of others. I guess things were handed to you on a silver platter all your life huh? My family started with NOTHING. We used to live in a one room apt that had everything crammed into it. We moved to the US, and we stayed with my aunt for a few months. When we got here we had just about 3 suitcases filled with a few clothes and a couple of wares and nothing else. Within 6 months we had a car, a new apt and a whole new wardrobe. The new wardrobe was necessary, b/c comming from the caribbean you don't have the clothes for the winter stuff.

Now we're doing VERY well for ourselves. After 8 years of hardword and sacrifice we've established ourselves. Got a house with a HUGE backyard AND still have another house back where we came from that we take care of. So we have TWO houses. How'd you like THEM apples asshole.

Fuck you and your dumbass attitude. Go rot in hell. I'll see the rest of your people at the 10th reuinion when I come back from a trip on my nice yacht while you sit there with your nose upturned b/c you make 6 figures from some company.

well (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475746)

Monica had a great intern job and we all know what she had to do to keep it.

Full time job working for Microsoft?? (-1, Troll)

QwkHyenA (207573) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475748)

And that's a 'perk'??

And in Inida recently... (-1, Offtopic)

jkrise (535370) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475749)

MS had a program for college students to write .NET apps specifically for the health-care segment, focussing on mobile tech and PDAs. The 'competition' saw participation from many colleges and there were lucrative prizes as well.

Today, we hear MS releases 50,000 copies of Office 2003 Beta for 'testing' (15 CDs each!!):
www.zdnet.com/anchordesk

Cheap marketing stunts have always been the way for MS - and very profitable as well.

Not easy to get in (1)

Jason O'Neil (607723) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475751)

Fifty thousand people applied, only eight hundred get in... Wouldn't place my hopes for the future on it just yet.

Re:Not easy to get in (1)

mark_lybarger (199098) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475780)

i know of a great opportunity you might be great for. it consists of converting MS Word documents into HTML and posting them to a web site. not quite exciting work for most, but certainly easy to get in ;).

Re:Not easy to get in (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475781)

Actually, the 50k that applied includes applicants for the 5000 actuual jobs.

moron drooling for a living.. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475759)

?working? as some kind of payper liesense FUDgePeddler(tm) for ever more?

swallow your spit. be like seeking training at the J. Gotti school of garmeNT companIE manglement.

fauxking dyed in the wool-over-yOUR-eyes shillbouys now larrIE/robbIE? yuk. drooling. no kidding.

lookout bullow. it looks like the pathetic failure of va lairIE's PostBlock(tm) device, could have reperecussions herd 'round the gnu wwworld.

mmm... (2, Funny)

MrFreshly (650369) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475762)

"Bring me your young..." said the beast.

Re:mmm... (1, Insightful)

maximilln (654768) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475789)

That about sums it up. You work 80 hours/week for M$ (and still pay 35+% off to the gov't in taxes) and they raise your children in day care centers and government schools.

So many parents wonder why they can no longer identify with their children. They try to bridge this gap by simply providing the resources so that their children can do whatever they want.

Is the destruction of the family unit so difficult to see?

+++ATHZ.

Re:mmm... (5, Informative)

danheskett (178529) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475882)

You work 80 hours/week for M$
Try more like 55. 80 hour work weeks are reserved exclusively these days for pre-bar Lawyers, residents in large hospitals, and a few other highly skilled jobs.

they raise your children in day care
Microsoft's on campus day care is amoung the best in the country. Parents on campus can watch their child with webcams and are encouraged to visit throughout the day. Additionally, with the typical salaries MS pays, it is likely that in a two-parent household one parent can stay home exclusively to raise the child(ren).

and government schools.
The typical MS employee can afford private schools with ease.

Is the destruction of the family unit so difficult to see?
Nope. But I think you are barking up the wrong tree with MS. They are amoung the most family friendly companies in the country.

All for the marketing baby (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475764)

All for the marketing, it's not gates' job, it's his marketing team's ideas that make all this crap. Get a banch of kids to a party, make them think they made the choise of their lifes, pay them half of what they would earn doing their own job and make them be programmers for the aged GUI of microsoft.

What a wast of time.

Please, programmers, think again before giving all away just for the money, software development is not a job, it's an art. And if you're doing it for the job your not a painter, but a dyer.

great employer (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475766)

My wife worked at Microsoft for a couple of years, and they are a GREAT employer. In terms of corporate culture they really rock.

Their raises are always above average, their stock options used to rock (the stock has flatlined for the past 2 years, but before that it went up something like 50-75% ever year).

They have volleyball courts, stand-up video games in almost every hallway, pizza parties, great hardware to play with, great buildings, nice walking/jogging paths right near campus.

And everyone there LOVES Microsoft. They love being part of an org that's in the forefront of technology.

It's pretty amazing to see.

Anyone who hasn't should read Microserfs. While it may not be based on a true life story, it definitely captures the essence of Microsoft.

Microserfs?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475792)

I thought that came to the conclusion that unless you were inner circle your were a temping sh*t?

Re:great employer (5, Funny)

gricholson75 (563000) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475795)

It's kinda like working for Apple, minus the personal humiliation by Steve Jobs.

Re:great employer (1)

InsaneCreator (209742) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475803)

This explains why they don't spend enough time on making (some of) their products secure enough to be used by a sane person. :)

great employer == great products? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475833)

This kind of proves that the amount of things to play with at work doesn't have very much to do with the quality level of the work that you do there.

Re:great employer (-1, Troll)

dpt (165990) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475888)

They love being part of an org that's in the forefront of technology

Well, that's the funniest thing I've heard all day! It would certainly be +1 funny for you, if I had mod points.

my internship (2, Funny)

NotTheAntiChrist (119853) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475769)

well.. i worked on open source in college.. $11 an hour... But I can sleep at night :P

Re:my internship (1)

NotTheAntiChrist (119853) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475796)

Oh yeah. but I don't have a job now. maybe I SHOULD have worked for Emporer Palpatine..

IWW Preamble! (0, Offtopic)

cmdr_shithead (527909) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475773)

The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people and the few, who make up the employing class, have all the good things of life. [iww.org]

Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the workers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of production, abolish the wage system, and live in harmony with the Earth.

We find that the centering of the management of industries into fewer and fewer hands makes the trade unions unable to cope with the ever growing power of the employing class. The trade unions foster a state of affairs which allows one set of workers to be pitted against another set of workers in the same industry, thereby helping defeat one another in wage wars. Moreover, the trade unions aid the employing class to mislead the workers into the belief that the working class have interests in common with their employers.

These conditions can be changed and the interest of the working class upheld only by an organization formed in such a way that all its members in any one industry, or in all industries if necessary, cease work whenever a strike or lockout is on in any department thereof, thus making an injury to one an injury to all.

Instead of the conservative motto, "A fair day's wage for a fair day's work," we must inscribe on our banner the revolutionary watchword, "Abolition of the wage system."

It is the historic mission of the working class to do away with capitalism. The army of production must be organized, not only for everyday struggle with capitalists, but also to carry on production when capitalism shall have been overthrown. By organizing industrially we are forming the structure of the new society within the shell of the old.

Sorry but... (4, Insightful)

awx (169546) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475775)

...I don't see the problem. If it's secure paid work in these times, who cares? Hell, i'd do it.

"Oh no, a company is going to great lengths to make itself appear enticing to prospective employees".

Let me break it to you: These are hard times we are living in. A job is just a job. You earn your shit from 9-5 and get out of there, it's what you do to pay the bills so that you don't sit at home twiddling your knob all day bored out of your skull, so that you can afford a roof, to eat, and buy funky cool things.

Re:Sorry but... (5, Insightful)

Zayin (91850) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475851)

Let me break it to you: These are hard times we are living in. A job is just a job. You earn your shit from 9-5 and get out of there, it's what you do to pay the bills so that you don't sit at home twiddling your knob all day bored out of your skull, so that you can afford a roof, to eat, and buy funky cool things.

Let me break it to you: Morale is not something you can just throw away when the going gets tough. (And no, I'm not saying that there exists such a thing as an absolute morale, I'm talking about your personal morale.) A job is not "just a job", it is something you choose to do. What you do during work hours matters, just as much as what you do during your spare time. Having a hard time is the only true test of your own morale.

Re:Sorry but... (4, Insightful)

micromoog (206608) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475947)

Morale is not something you can just throw away when the going gets tough. (And no, I'm not saying that there exists such a thing as an absolute morale, I'm talking about your personal morale.)

I believe the word you're looking for is morality. From what I hear, morale [reference.com] is consistently pretty high at Microsoft.

Re:Sorry but... (1)

Zayin (91850) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475968)

I believe the word you're looking for is morality. From what I hear, morale [reference.com] is consistently pretty high at Microsoft.

Yes, you are absolutely right. English is not my native language. Sorry about that, but I hope you got the point anyway.

Disco (1)

Zayin (91850) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475779)

One of the offices, for instance, has a mountain scene painted on the wall. Another has red walls and a disco ball.

Disco ball? Please don't tell me that's one of the DISCO [microsoft.com] developers...

Imagine that (3, Insightful)

skroz (7870) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475797)

Imagine that... a well paid internship with one of the world's largest companies, lots of perks, a pretty good chance of a permanent position with said megacorp, great perks, AND a catered lunch?

Yeah, I wouldn't take that position. That would be fucking stupid.

Isn't an internship at MS a career killer? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475798)

Considering what they make their customers sign for a *tiny* bit of insider information, I can't imagine what they'd make an insider sign. And what happens to 55 to 70 percent of interns that don't get hired?

I'm not sure I'd like to see "Interned for Microsoft" on a resume...it probably wouldn't be worth the legal hassle.

Ah, but at that barbecue... (5, Funny)

kahei (466208) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475799)

...when you ask Bill to share the sauce, he makes you sign an NDA. Heck, I've even heard he refuses to *open* the sauce.

Re:Ah, but at that barbecue... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475847)

Sauce instead of "Source!"

Now thats comedy.

Re:Ah, but at that barbecue... (1)

bezza (590194) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475967)

That is honestly the wittiest and funniest things I have ever read. Well done...

Not out of line (2, Informative)

onthefenceman (640213) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475801)

Many companies pay fairly handsomely for internships, at least for students beginning their senior year. Individual companies offer specific perks - Apple allows interns to customize their own computers while employees and Ford offers a small discount on cars.

The difficult years for internships are for freshmen and sophomores - even at top-notch universities students may end up humping campus jobs for $8/hour in their first year or two.

Work at Micro$oft (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475806)

You know its not a bad job to work at Micro$oft, they are big and they are the leader on the desktop and has been so for a long time. I wouldnt myself like the idea to be working for them, but they got alot of brigt people, and I bet it can be real fun to work with those people. I do prefere that I can use a Linux desktop and program Java running on Unix boxes.. But thats maybe not for everyone.

What's the big deal? (2, Insightful)

pyroteknix (649571) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475808)

To be totally honest, I don't really see the point of this article at all. We all know that Microsoft do internships, we all know that they have a ton of money to throw at it, and we all know that they're damn hard to get into.

The original article really doesn't tell us a lot that we don't already know. It seems to be there to plug Microsoft and their internship program.

On the other hand, an interesting point is bought up about smaller companies not being able to afford internships in periods of economic downturn. Does this mean that Microsoft, who are still recruiting strongly as ever, have an even better chance of picking up the cream of the crop? Of course... It makes perfect business sense, doesn't it? What I'd like to hear about are other, smaller companies and their recruiting schemes.

Re:What's the big deal? (1)

dpt (165990) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475955)

have an even better chance of picking up the cream of the crop?

I think that would be great! I mean, extrapolating from the software they've managed to produce so far, they must all be certified geniuses

Who knows, perhaps they'll get someone who's done a course in basic OS design? Imagine the improvements that could be made to, say, the *file system* if someone with a clue were to build one for them. I mean, it's already totally amazing. But imagine what it could be if people, say, knew something about what they were doing before they started?

It would certainly be a win all round! I'm still waiting for that course they sent all their employees on regarding security to pay dividends. I'd even say that is overkill! Minds that work faster than the speed of light like that will be able to undo years worth of sloppy code just by making a few press releases and adding a few security options somewhere.

Go team MS!!

What I want to know is... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475822)

do they provide the equipment [hardtobuy.com] required for the job [minou.com] ?

While MS spend's it's money producing drones, (-1, Flamebait)

pkplex (535744) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475825)

the concious learn how to operate computers without training wheels, and go on to move forward with the rest of the human race ;)

This sucks (-1, Troll)

broothal (186066) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475826)

I wonder if Monica Lewinsky will be applying for this internship. After all, it doesn't seem to suck.

Personal internship experience. (5, Interesting)

LeiGong (621856) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475829)

The Interview
Not only does Microsoft fly you out to Seattle/Redmond for the 2nd round interviews (all expenses paid), they also give you an extra day to tour the city. Which is very nice of them.

Each interview tends to last 1 hour, like Rafi said and questions vary between positions. For Program Managers (PMs) questions are more scenario based, for Software Design Engineers (SDEs) the questions are almost all programming and algorithm questions. Most questions do not tend to have the "right" answers but the interviewers are looking at how the candidates think.

The Internship

Once an offer is accepted by the intern, MS takes care of all the traveling details. From the plane ticket, to the apartment, to the subsidized car rental (I'll talk about this more later), to shipping your computer and stuff to Redmond. Perhaps the most interesting perk is that MS will help you rent a car. Normally, a driver has to be at least 25 years old to rent a car, but with MS interns as young as 18 are able to rent cars. This eventually leads to many accidents a year, the costs of which are all covered by MS. :)

Interns and recruiters also team up to sponsor lots of activities to keep the geeks happy. Activities range from a Puzzle Day, a full day of team-based puzzle solving, to a scavenger hunt through Seattle, to a ski trip to Whistler (only a 3-4hr drive). Other perks also includ free membership to the posh Pro Club gym and a corporate card that offers special discounts to all the sights and attractions across the Pudget Sound area.

Personally, I had a great time as an intern at MS and would do it again in a hard beat. The only complaint I had was male intern to female intern ratio.

Re:Personal internship experience. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475919)

Fucking whore.

I internerd (5, Informative)

oZZoZZ (627043) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475832)

I interned at Microsoft up in Canada for high school, then they invited me back when I was in University. I got a job working for one of Microsoft's partners part-time while I was attending school, and during summer.

It was an amazing place to work, and I'd say as many as 20% of the employees there were interns (In MSFT Canada HQ).

The everyday perks were incredible, free drinks, 1/2 subsidized lunch room, laptop, iPAQ, yearly budget to purchase anything you want (that will help the company)... It was really amazing.

Re:I internerd (4, Insightful)

pubjames (468013) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475964)

The everyday perks were incredible, free drinks, 1/2 subsidized lunch room, laptop, iPAQ, yearly budget to purchase anything you want (that will help the company)... It was really amazing.

It works like this:

1) get graduates straight out of universtiy.
2) condition them to believe working extremely long hours and weekends is "normal".
3) condition them to believe that if you're a real professional then your work is more important than socialising with your friends and spending time with your family.
4) pay them relatively low salaries, but promise big ones in the future.
5) give them free pop, sweeties and toys.
6) See how far you can push the suckers!

When you are older and wiser, believe me you will look back on your free drinks and 1/2 subsidized lunch room and realise how gullible you were when you were younger...

You do not know the power of the Dark Side. (3, Interesting)

Morphine007 (207082) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475835)

..... .. . what about: if you can't beat 'em; join 'em ?? I'm a hardcore slackware kind of guy and spent my last two years of university (honours comp. sci.) without ever touching a windows box, but I'd go work for them, in a heartbeat.....

Barbecue @ Bill's House? (0, Troll)

JRHelgeson (576325) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475840)

What they don't tell you is that after the barbecue, Bill likes to have these little boys sleep in his room, and sometimes in his bed...

Or was that Jacko?

--
Keep it Wrinkled, boys.

interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475846)

and perhaps a lesson that others should learn... take care of your employees and that does not just mean using lube infrequently when you are anally violating them. Hell, my company only treats buzz word specialists with any respect... and I am fulltime with 4 years.

College Recruiting website (5, Informative)

LeiGong (621856) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475860)

There's more info about the entire interview process and the positions on their MS College Website: http://www.microsoft.com [microsoft.com]

slashdot.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5475863)

"you don't know the power of the dark side" ? i see the shameless old anti-ms fud is still around.. i wonder if this place will ever turn into a discussion forum instead of a linux-propaganda machine ran by people who apperantly have no clue what goes around in the outside world...

the whole point is... (1)

Ravagin (100668) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475871)

You do not know the power of the Dark Side.

Well, we do now!

Re:the whole point is... (1)

NedTheNerd (652808) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475961)

I thought that to be an expecialy nice touch :) of course you could use this oportunity to assassinate the object of your anger and fear. If your as lazy as me thought I would sugest working at a fast food restraunt they are easy and dont require much thinking. then again microsoft might be the same way! :)

"no logo" by naomi klein (2, Interesting)

seney (244786) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475879)

well, i'm not going to remember all of this well, so if someone could help me on this.

if you read "no logo", naomi spends quite a bit of time on microsoft's hiring and employee practices.

1. microsoft outsources a lot of it's employment to "temp" firms like manpower. this allows them to "hire" full time employees, who are never really given a contract. thus they don't have to give them any benefits, nor do they have a guaranteed job (so they're easier to fire). i _think_ i remember that it was said that microsoft only has about half of the people working for them on their payroll.

(1.5). i think i remember reading that "real" employees have different colored shirts than "temp" employees.

2. they don't hire they're internal postal mail staff, pitney bowes runs it.

3. capitalism [maketradefair.org] creates a market, which allows us to purchase items without having to think about the process by which these items came to the market, as we are then only concerned with value. this allows for violations of human rights, destruction of the rain forest, and hairs in our soup.

I'll take an internship anywhere... (2, Insightful)

DaHat (247651) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475905)

I've got a stack of about 40 rejections sitting in my drawer right now, they are in response to about 160 resumes I've sent out in the last 5 weeks alone. An internship with Microsoft would be a great opportunity, regardless of the stigma. At this point I'm just looking for the internship, regardless of where and who.

Why MS has their internship program (1, Troll)

hotspur_fan (210395) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475933)

At Michigan, just about every minority computer engineering student was a Microsoft intern. Yet when I went out to interview for a full-time job there was not a single minority student out there. Microsoft uses their internship program to boost their diversity numbers.

On a related note... (1)

metamatic (202216) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475939)

...What are Mafia internships like?

Do you get all the fine Italian food you can eat? Do you get to drive a fancy black limo around? Do you get to cap youse friends who don' show youse no respect?

Bleh! (4, Insightful)

Otis_INF (130595) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475941)

"You do not know the power of the Dark Side".

Grow up, child! Even if it was sarcastic or in a wicked way ment to be 'funny', it's too pathetic for words. Microsoft is like any other company which wants to make money. Employees who work at Microsoft, do that because they get paid for what they do there, like people at Sun or IBM (or Red Hat).

Just because MS mistreats some of its customers, doesn't mean the individual employee there is a bad person, or worse: stupid, because he felt for the 'power of the dark side'. For once, keep marketingpoop and real life separated.

You should read "Proudly serving my corporate masters" by Adam Barr ( I believe he even is a slashdotter). Then you will understand that interns at Microsoft are not picked up at MacDonalds, but recruited at the finest universities and should pass a tough selection program. No wonder as a company they are treated as normal human beings: the best people know they are the best and will only work for... the best, ('best' can be different for a lot of people) so Microsoft will do everything they can to get them on board (like IBM, Sun and other companies will do too).

The White House (1)

dnoyeb (547705) | more than 11 years ago | (#5475956)

I thought the White House was the obvious answer to the question...
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