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FreeBSD 4.8 Release Delayed Until Mar 24

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the when-it's-ready-it'll-be-ready dept.

BSD 58

Dan writes "FreeBSD Release Engineering Team's Murray Stokley indicates in his email that the latest FreeBSD 4.8 release will need to be postponed until March 24 in order to include suggested fixes related to the XFree86 4.3.0 port. After a complete package rebuild, they plan to release FreeBSD 4.8 RC2 first. Murray requests everyone to continue testing the XFree86 4.3.0 port to ensure a quality release."

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58 comments

Excellent (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5518950)

It's nice to see SOMEONE taking the time to do things right. SuSE could learn a thing or two from them. I'm starting to equate them with the American automotive manufacturers of the Linux world.

Stokely (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5519091)

Not Stokley and unlike Berkeley

Developer lashes out: What Killed FreeBSD (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5519101)

The End of FreeBSD

[ed. note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]

When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.

Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.

FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.

It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.

So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.

Discussion

I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.

From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.

There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.

Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.

Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?

Shouts

To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.

To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It's when you get distracted by the politickers that they sideline you. The tireless work that you perform keeping the system clean and building is what provides the platform for the obsessives and the prima donnas to have their moments in the sun. In the end, we need you all; in order to go forwards we must first avoid going backwards.

To the paranoid conspiracy theorists - yes, I work for Apple too. No, my resignation wasn't on Steve's direct orders, or in any way related to work I'm doing, may do, may not do, or indeed what was in the tea I had at lunchtime today. It's about real problems that the project faces, real problems that the project has brought upon itself. You can't escape them by inventing excuses about outside influence, the problem stems from within.

To the politically obsessed - give it a break, if you can. No, the project isn't a lemonade stand anymore, but it's not a world-spanning corporate juggernaut either and some of the more grandiose visions going around are in need of a solid dose of reality. Keep it simple, stupid.

To the grandstanders, the prima donnas, and anyone that thinks that they can hold the project to ransom for their own agenda - give it a break, if you can. When the current core were elected, we took a conscious stand against vigorous sanctions, and some of you have exploited that. A new core is going to have to decide whether to repeat this mistake or get tough. I hope they learn from our errors.

Future

I started work on FreeBSD because it was fun. If I'm going to continue, it has to be fun again. There are things I still feel obligated to do, and with any luck I'll find the time to meet those obligations.

However I don't feel an obligation to get involved in the political mess the project is in right now. I tried, I burnt out. I don't feel that my efforts were worthwhile. So I won't be standing for election, I won't be shouting from the sidelines, and I probably won't vote in the next round of ballots.

You could say I'm packing up my toys. I'm not going home just yet, but I'm not going to play unless you can work out how to make the project somewhere fun to be again.

= Mike

--

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. -- Theodore Roosevelt

*BSD is dying (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5519111)

It is official; Netcraft now confirms: *BSD is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin [amazingkreskin.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

Fact: *BSD is dying

Re:*BSD is dying...Ninnle taking over! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5520698)

Of course *BSD is dying! Ever since Ninnle Linux was released, people have seen the light and are making the switch, not only from *BSD, but from other Linux distros, as well as Windows, to Ninnle, and realizing just how much they have been missing!

Why so few posts (2, Insightful)

peripatetic_bum (211859) | more than 11 years ago | (#5519139)

I know freebsd is good. I usue it I like it. I also use linux and like it a lot.
Why is there such a difference in the number of posts when a linux release comes up versus a *BSD release.
I would like to hear some thoughtful discussion

Easy answer of why.. (2, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 11 years ago | (#5519167)

This is manily a linux forum.. so us *bsd'ers are at a minority...

Just the laws of averages..

hrmmm... (1)

aunchaki (94514) | more than 11 years ago | (#5519332)

This is manily a linux forum.. so us *bsd'ers are at a minority...

I agree that BSDers (like myself) are in the minority, but I'm not so sure about Slashdot being "mainly a linux forum." Of course, I could be wrong...

Re:hrmmm... (1, Flamebait)

saintlupus (227599) | more than 11 years ago | (#5520009)

I agree that BSDers (like myself) are in the minority, but I'm not so sure about Slashdot being "mainly a linux forum."

I agree. I don't think there's a whole lot of actual linux users on here -- although I do think there are a lot of kids posting from the Windows XP box that has a long-dormant Red Hat partition on it somewhere.

--saint

Re:hrmmm... (1)

Openadvocate (573093) | more than 11 years ago | (#5521241)

True, if you look at many of the posts and how they are moderated it seems like it, or maybe it is just a few and all the other is just following the "theme".
Anyhow, you just need to surf a few gamesite forums(for as long as you can stand it) and then come back here. You get the feeling there is a bit less posters with raging hormones here.

Isn't it obvious? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5519999)

FACT: BSD is dying!

Re:Why so few posts (4, Interesting)

Ded Bob (67043) | more than 11 years ago | (#5519214)

I prefer to comment when I have something to say that I think would be useful. Most comments on SlashDot are what I would consider to be no-op's (repeats, trolls, yes-men, no-men, blah).

What could I actually say about the short delay in release: nothing. I understand why, so I am satisfied with the decision. I sent in two fixes just last week for FreeBSD. That is probably where you'll find me. :)

Because there are so few users (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5520886)

Seriously the guy could have just rung up all 40 FreeBSD users and told them directly.

It because ..

Ding Dong *BSD is dead!
Which old *BSD?
All of *BSD.

Talk of *BSD is banned at my local LUG. WE discuss Windows far more.

*BSD is dying. Turn off the life support. Join Linus. Come to the side of good.

Re:Why so few posts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5521098)

Simple. Publicity and hype.

Re:Why so few posts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5522332)

Why, because this site does not seem to be BSD friendly. It's irritating reading BSD comments on this site having to put up with all those BSD is dieing crap. Frankly, I do have to admit I find myself coming to this site less and less because it's not worth it. I thought by now Slashdot would of put an end to all those childish post that get posted here but I think it's getting worse. For a better OS news site a suggest www.osnews.com

Re:Why so few posts (4, Informative)

cant_get_a_good_nick (172131) | more than 11 years ago | (#5522384)

A few reasons.

* Slashdot is a Lnux advocacy site. No problem there, but BSD advocates tend to congregate elsewhere. You want to ask questions to people who may know the answers, not Linux guys saying how it works in Linux.

* The trolls. Every BSD pot gets the TrollBots going. Kinda funny when the story is only related to BSD (like OpenSSH) but gets irritating.

* Personality. Though this is flamebait, but there is a fringe element of "Linux is Heaven on earth, all other OSes are blasphemy, BSD goes to Hell" that you tend to find here. Though it is a fringe element, and most BSDers ignore them, it's irritating. Best tool for the job, keep your religion for Sundays or the Sabbath or Ramadan please.

* Popularity. Just happens that there are more Linux users than FreeBSD. A lot of this was due to the Great Dark Lawsuit, essentially Novell suing FreeBSD for licensing issues. The suit was even though FreeBSD code contained very little AT&T code (3 files I think) it was "tainted" with UNIX ideas. This was Novell being kind of jerkish, because it ignored the whole boost that BSD gave to UNIX. Berkely showed how UNIX violated BSD licensing as well and more egregiously in fact. Eventually, BSD (and FreeBSD) was allowed to continue, they removed the 3 offending files, UNIX code now included the BSD license, and life goes on. But during this time, people didn't want to use FreeBSD because of the uncertainty, and they turned to Linux. In fact, Linux says in the famous Tannenbaum exchange/flamewar that he would have used FreeBSD (or the HURD) if it was available at the time, but it wasn't, so he made Linux, and the world is a better place.

Kind of ironic; there are a lot of parallels in the Novell/FreeBSD case vs. the SCO (Caldera)/IBM & Linux case. Possibly people will look at FreeBSD now since they're pretty much free and clear of SCO suing them because of outcome of the Great Dark Lawsuit. I think IBM wil prevail, but if people open their minds a bit and some more folks take a look at FreeBSD the world will be a better place.

Re:Why so few posts (2, Interesting)

nsayer (86181) | more than 11 years ago | (#5524116)

the Great Dark Lawsuit, essentially Novell suing FreeBSD for licensing issues. The suit was even though FreeBSD code contained very little AT&T code (3 files I think) it was "tainted" with UNIX ideas. This was Novell being kind of jerkish,

The real story is a very interesting one, and anyone interested should do one of two things: Either read the condensed version as one of the chapters of the book Open Sources [oreilly.com] or go buy a copy of the videotape [mckusick.com] of Kirk telling the story himself (surely the best $49 I've ever spent on videotape).

Less bullshit !!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5528947)

In my opinion, it's just because BSD users generally know what they are talking about vs. a lot of people flaming for whatever reason in the Linux advocacy AND the news are generally telling "don't worry, everything is under control, just wait a few days and it will come out ok" vs. "oh my god you know the last word of Linus about bla bla bla"

In general, i think that there is a lot of bla bla bla and high fly bullshit on slashdot (I mean on the reader's side) and I often laugh with consternation reading replies ... with consequences that only sometimes I read replies to BSD related news and never post any.

I really don't care about what venom flamers spit and really don't care about giving them my opinion ...

Best regards.

Elegy for *BSD (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5519249)


Elegy For *BSD


I am a *BSD user
and I try hard to be brave
That is a tall order
*BSD's foot is in the grave.

I tap at my toy keyboard
and whistle a happy tune
but keeping happy's so hard,
*BSD died so soon.

Each day I wake and softly sob
Nightfall finds me crying
Not only am I a zit faced slob
but *BSD is dying.

5.0 (3, Interesting)

Pierre (6251) | more than 11 years ago | (#5519315)

I've been thinking of trying FBSD on an empty partition. I was going to install 5.0 but this mention of 4.8 has me a bit confused.

Is it 4.X the convservative path? Is 5.0 still to new?

Re:5.0 (2, Informative)

susehat (558997) | more than 11 years ago | (#5519436)

yes. 5.0 is still new. It is mainly for your running pleasure. If you need to use FBSD on an enterprise-critical system, then you would want 4.X 5 is a totally new means of doing things, so they don't expect to have all the bugs out until about 5.2

Re:5.0 (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5519447)

"Is it 4.X the convservative path? Is 5.0 still to new?"

You've got the right idea. though it has a number of wonderful new features, 5.0 is still "half-baked". It isn't recomended for production use.

4.8 will be the most recent release of the "stable branch" of FreeBSD development, and will provide a nicer experience and better performance than will 5.0 at this time.

I'd give 5.x a year before it's as stable as 4.x, and by that time, life will be pretty sweet.

-Jeremy

Re:5.0 (4, Informative)

bluGill (862) | more than 11 years ago | (#5520041)

Many FreeBSD folks remember the 3.0 release and don't want to repeat that. In short 3.0 had some serrious flaws that send people who needed the features it had to -current (the development kernels). I personaly installed 3.0, and it didn't last long, I found all the -current kernels (though I didn't install many) more stable than 3.0. 4.0 ended up rushing out the door because many of the fixes were designed with other features of 4.0 in mind and didn't backport easially.

Your other choice at the time was running 2.2.8, which was extreemly stable, but lacked some nice upgrades that 3.0 had. (USB for instance)

4.0 essentially became 3.0 stable. So now they are trying to do 5.0 right. 5.0 allows a release that is considered stable, and encourages people up use it, but by doing 4.8 they get some needed updates in the 4.0 series, and provide a reminder that 5.0 isn't stable yet.

Last, this is open source. If you are still using 2.2 and you feel a 2.2.9 is worth releaseing it might be done - if you can convince those involved that enough people are still using 2.2 to make it useful.

Re:5.0 (1)

skaeight (653904) | more than 11 years ago | (#5520170)

I'm new to *bsd, but I've been using linux for a while now, and I'm strongly considering putting freeBSD on the new computer I'm building instead of linux. I'm a computer science student and I really want to LEARN UNIX, not just point and click my way through the latest Redhat distro. Would you recommend waiting for 4.8 or would it be safe to use 5.0? I guess I'm just wondering if anyone is using 5.0 at all now, or if that's pretty much a no no. Oh and please, don't anyone tell me to RTFHB or see the Early Adopter's Guide. The linux community's willingness to work with newbies is one of the the things that keeps me there....give me a reason to switch :-)

Re:5.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5520494)

If you need it to use stick with 4.7 or 4.8 if you want to wait. 5.0 is good, but you'll reduce your headaches by using one of the 4.Xs, unless you want to contribute to the 5.0 release.

I used both 4.7 stable and 5.0 stable and both worked equally well for me until I rebuilt the kernel in 5.0. The kablooie was likely my fault when I missed something on mergemaster, but I haven't had that problem with 4.7 yet.

If you have specific BSD questions, try http://www.bsdforums.org.

I do highly recommend to RTFM. The handbook is very good, and will make your experience much better.

Don't forget to check out OpenBSD and NetBSD, as well as FreeBSD.

Re:5.0 (5, Informative)

Beetjebrak (545819) | more than 11 years ago | (#5521277)

FreeBSD has a very solid and well documented filesystem hierarchy. Also it has a very easy init sequence, which is also well documentented. FreeBSD installs without any bloat, if you want it to.. or it installs with a full working X desktop.. if you want that.

Another big plus for (Free)BSD is the ports collection. This is a collection of directories that contain scripts from which you can automatically download and compile thousands of applications. By setting options in make.conf you can optimize these ports-builds for your system's processor, making them highly efficient. Much like Gentoo's Portage system on the Linux side of the world.

For me, the mail "selling" point for FreeBSD is it's rock solid stability. I've had servers fry harddrives and _STILL_ continue to work while actual smoke was coming out of the case. I received an email from my server that there was a hardware failure and that it had stopped the failed drive. I simply swapped out the defective drive. Downtime: 10 minutes (since the drives weren't hot-swappable). In the course of over a year and a half there were probably 10 reboots due to security patches to the kernel and that was it. Before I ran FreeBSD I used SuSE Linux which crashed sometimes, and before that I evaluated Win2K Advanced Server but that had much too high a price tag for me.. and also caused data loss during the 120 days trial. (it was not a beta!)

Also, please DO read the handbook. It's a very good piece of documentation and gets you started much quicker than the community can. Also, the community will most likely not be very helpful in answering questions that are plain and easy to find in the handbook. The handbook covers everything from filesystem setup and user administration to setting up robust RAID arrays and secure VPN tunnels all using tools from the OS itself.

I can also reccommend the book "FreeBSD Unleashed" by Michael Urban and Brian Tiemann. It's more or less an extended version of the handbook in printed form. When I bought it, it came with version 4.4 but that's easily upgraded.

FreeBSD would seem to me the best starting place to learn UNIX because of its very clearly defined procedures and its option to install just the bare-bones minimum, unlike RedHat (which is aimed to replace Win2K on corporate desktops mostly.. I think).

good luck!

Re:5.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5521642)

I second the notion that you should read the handbook. The FreeBSD handbook is probably the best piece of documentation for an open source project I have ever seen.

Re:5.0 -- FreeBSD book (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5525007)

Nice and factual advocacy (sp?). One thing though, IMHO, Greg Lehey's FreeBSD book is really a lot better. I found "Unleashed" rather disappointing. The new 4th edition of Greg's "The complete FreeBSD" will be out in April and should cover 5.0.

Cheers,

--Dan

Re:5.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5521187)

You know, if you have some unused gigs on your hard drive and some kilowatt hours to waste, you can learn almost as much from breaking a perfectly good BSD or Linux install as building one from scratch :) But FreeBSD sysinstall is nice in that it's pretty enough to not scare people away but sparse enough to create serious bloat problems and flexible enough to let you tinker with things. To do everything on your own, however, requires learning a bit about the FreeBSD partitioning scheme (touched on in sysinstall), disk devices, mknod, the most important files residing in /etc, fdisk, newfs, tar, stuff like that. It helps to be able to recompile the kernel as well. Besides the obvious man pages there's hier, boot, rc.conf, etc. But I'd start with the handbook (on the website) and then "man man" and "man (section) intro".

Re:5.0 (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5521202)

5.0 is stable for home/dev usage (ie: it never crashed on me). Go ahead, install this one.

4.7 is the production one. It is true and proved. Use this is you install servers that need 24/365 avaibility. And proven stuff is generally done for 4.x, not 5.x (as nobody runs critical servers with 5.0)

4.8 is the next release for people that cannot afford to take risk.

If you go the 4.7 route, after installation, you can choose tracking 4.7 (in which case, you'll have an _extremely_ stable machine, with only security fixes and bug-fixes applied), or you can choose tracking 4, in which case, you will be automatically upgraded to 4.8.

Do yourself a favor. Try freebsd. It is ruely a solid, professional, document and coherent environment.

Re:5.0 (2, Informative)

rinsoblue (300699) | more than 11 years ago | (#5521311)

I have been using 5.0 as a desktop workstation since the day it was released.

I have never had a problem with it. Everything I have tried has been fine. KDE, sound, graphics, all OK.

This not mean it can be used as an important server though. I have not tried that.

Follow the advice of the other replier and you will be in for a pleasant learning experience.

Re:5.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5521630)

I was a computer science student and I currently only use Macs and FreeBSD. In some ways, FreeBSD just seems to make more sense (at least to me). It's like you get the feeling that at some point in the process, someone stood back and said, "ok ok, what the fuck are we doing here? let's straighten this out." so you end up with things like a clearly documented init process and the ports tree, which totally kicks ass.

The downsides are with less people working on it in general, you won't be able to play with toy-ish things as much. No special linux ports of proprietary software are going to come out freebsd, there's no DB2 freebsd port, the support for video and some other multimedia things like TV cards is even worse on freebsd than on linux.

In general though, for like a useable desktop or a machine to keep in your closet as a firewall/nat/router/mailserver/cvs/fileserver, I think it's a lot easier and saner to use than linux. When I used linux, I always felt like I was just fucking around with things until I got them to sort of work and then I stopped questioning it. With FreeBSD, it's easier to know what you are doing, how to do it, and why it works, without following some length HOWTO (at least, for a retard like me. I'm sure serious linux users have no problems with it. But I used to have a box with both, and freebsd was way easier for me to get my head around.)

Give it a try, it's hard for me to explain what I mean but I think you'll detect the difference even in installation. Whether you will like this difference I can't say, but I do.

Re:5.0 (1)

Groganz (552205) | more than 11 years ago | (#5524768)

the support for video and some other multimedia things like TV cards is even worse on freebsd than on linux.

The Brooktree TV chipset support is pretty freakin' good IMHO. I have Windows PCs if I want to play games. (Which leads me to add that I find FreeBSD users appear to be less bigotted towards Windows than Linux users in general).

Re:5.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5573468)

If you still want to learn UNIX, but enjoy the benefits of better hardware compatibility and the popularity of Linux, you should run Debian.

It's a much better OS for learning than, say, Redhat. Great help on the mailing lists with very knowledgeable people. Having a nice Debian system working, and learning it, is a great feeling!

Re:5.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5521130)

4.8 is indeed the more conservative route. 5.0 offers a new and improved devfs, acpi support, and plenty of "architectural changes" that are still in the works and more of interest to programmers, companies that are planning to deploy the 5.x line in the future, and geeky "powerusers" with no life. The average casual user will probably want to stick with 4.8 for now and await 5.1 or 5.2 with great enthusiasm. As for sound, video, and pick-your-favorite driver support, the -STABLE line (i.e. 4.8) follow that stuff quite closely.

This time around... (3, Insightful)

cperciva (102828) | more than 11 years ago | (#5519486)

Can we wait until *after* the release before announcing it?

Remember, that means wait until you get a PGP-signed email from Murray Stokely before you post a story.

Re:This time around... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5521114)

That would take all the fun out of poking around to see if it was acutually released and unnecessarily pounding the servers.

Re:This time around... (1)

MavEtJu (241979) | more than 11 years ago | (#5521249)

Can we wait until *after* the release before announcing it?

Naaaah. And the text of this article is wrong too, it should have been "FreeBSD 4.8 will released at March 24th, you can find it at your local mirrors [freebsd.org]."

Re:This time around... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5522943)

Nah, so far the editors have proven to be true jerks on this issue. Murray has emailed them directly asking them to repect the release process. Three times in a row, they have posted an article as soon as the files appear on the main FreeBSD.org ftp server, and before the mirrors have had a chance in he&& of getting it.
Does the releng team really need to hide the files on the ftp server just because the ./ editors are behaving like little children that want to be first in line?

it's dead, Jim (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5519878)

subject says it all

Re:it's dead, Jim (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5522347)

By it, you mean your brain?

The reason why (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5519880)

I heard they are scrambling hard to get modem support (2400 baud and under only, of course) working in time for this release. Along with its first-class punch card capabilities and IPV6 support this would surely make it the first choice for anyone looking for a modern OS.

BSD IS DING! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5519938)

It's true. FreeBSD is DING! It's been ding since 3.0, when Hanz Flistron (BSD genius) stepped down from the project.

Just looks at all the reasons FreeBSD is ding:

1) No support for nonlinear memory stepping. How can a modern OS leave this out?

2) *serious* security holes in the pairwise connection routines. these common TCP components should be rock-solid, considering how many consider BSD to be a reference implementation (bad idea since BSD is ding).

3) only three levels of splort. modern OS's like Windows and Linux have five!

4) have you ever tried to use unfuzz() on BSD 4.x? The unfuzz semantics on BSD are all wrong! There should be a DTL level adjustment on the second argument, and it shouldn't be a struct!! Breaks a lot of code!

5) finally, and this is most important, the daemon mascot has no genetalia.

this is why BSD is ding.

Re:BSD IS DING! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5520068)

the daemon's genetalia is fully retractable, just like the penguin's

I don't recall... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5520220)

Which was the last FreeBSD release that was *not* delayed?

Re:I don't recall... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5521178)

Yea, damn the Al Queda event of Sept 11th for delaying FreeBSD.

Insider suggests delay will be until April 1 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5521872)

Q: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend their country?
A: We don't know, it's never been done before.

Q: France has a long storied history. It's had many other names in the past. What are some of these?
A: England, Germany, etc..

Q: How did the Germans invade France so easily?
A: They walked in backwards and said they were leaving.

Q: What does the French flag look like?
A: It's a white flag.

Q: What's the fastest way to make a French city surrender?
A: Fly over the city and drop in deodorant.

FRANCE is Dying (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5521885)

Q: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend their country?
A: We don't know, it's never been done before.

Q: France has a long storied history. It's had many other names in the past. What are some of these?
A: England, Germany, etc..

Q: How did the Germans invade France so easily?
A: They walked in backwards and said they were leaving.

Q: What does the French flag look like?
A: It's a white flag.

Q: What's the fastest way to make a French city surrender?
A: Fly over the city and drop in deodorant.

Major security hole in XFree86 4.3.0 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5521903)

Q: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend their country?
A: We don't know, it's never been done before.

Q: France has a long storied history. It's had many other names in the past. What are some of these?
A: England, Germany, etc..

Q: How did the Germans invade France so easily?
A: They walked in backwards and said they were leaving.

Q: What does the French flag look like?
A: It's a white flag.

Q: What's the fastest way to make a French city surrender?
A: Fly over the city and drop in deodorant.

delay or no delay, FreeBSD 4.8 will be DOA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5521917)

Q: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend their country?
A: We don't know, it's never been done before.

Q: France has a long storied history. It's had many other names in the past. What are some of these?
A: England, Germany, etc..

Q: How did the Germans invade France so easily?
A: They walked in backwards and said they were leaving.

Q: What does the French flag look like?
A: It's a white flag.

Q: What's the fastest way to make a French city surrender?
A: Fly over the city and drop in deodorant.

How you can help with FreeBSD 4.8 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5521926)

Q: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend their country?
A: We don't know, it's never been done before.

Q: France has a long storied history. It's had many other names in the past. What are some of these?
A: England, Germany, etc..

Q: How did the Germans invade France so easily?
A: They walked in backwards and said they were leaving.

Q: What does the French flag look like?
A: It's a white flag.

Q: What's the fastest way to make a French city surrender?
A: Fly over the city and drop in deodorant.

FRANCE SUCKS!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5521944)

Q: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend their country?
A: We don't know, it's never been done before.

Q: France has a long storied history. It's had many other names in the past. What are some of these?
A: England, Germany, etc..

Q: How did the Germans invade France so easily?
A: They walked in backwards and said they were leaving.

Q: What does the French flag look like?
A: It's a white flag.

Q: What's the fastest way to make a French city surrender?
A: Fly over the city and drop in deodorant.

Life's a bitch when your dead (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5522447)

Death. Rigor mortis. Decay. BSD.

*BSD is dead (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5523041)

as dead as those yank soldiers about to go up against mighty Iraq. Go Saddam!

I'm glad I used FreeBSD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5535527)

I learned FreeBSD at the time when Sendmail for NT was failing on me. I was desperate (customers were screaming!), and my collegue suggested FreeBSD+Qmail, which I did. Learning curve was not fun (and I am a documentation idiot). But I survived the learning curve and have since been slowly 'upgrading' my W2K servers to FreeBSD.

Having used Slackware, Red Hat and Mandrake before. I would say that FreeBSD gives commercial robustness and administrative ease. Guess what? I have not even installed XWindows yet (but then, I am a documentation idiot)!

When I get my new job, I will definately try to continue my expertise on this great operating system.

*BSD is dying (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5538555)

It is official; Netcraft now confirms: *BSD is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin [amazingkreskin.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is absolutely consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

Fact: *BSD is dying

avoid FBSD 5.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5556293)

I have been running 4.X for years without many problems. I recently installed FBSD 5.0, and within 30 minutes experienced all the following:
  • The console was simply not updating after the kernel loaded bootup was complete.
  • Various sensible combinations in make.conf for rebuilding the world simply caused the build to fail (e.g. obscure base system software requiring C++).
  • Kernel panic when trying to use the Alcatel Speedtouch: and this simply works via ugen rather than installing as a kernel mode driver.
  • And upon reboot from that panic, a whole directory hierarchy has just disappeared: I wonder if it had anything to do with "background fsck" which it claims to be running last thing on bootup.
I'd submit PRs but I know perfectly well how FBSD development works: the patronage "get your friends doing the jobs" method, especially for PR processing, which means a bunch of illiterate monkeys randomly misunderstand and close 99% of useful PRs. Hell, I have a friend who got chummy with some freebsd core and was put in charge of this when he hadn't written a line of C in his life (guess the name! go on!).

Bah, I really should go back to Linux one of these days.

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