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Apple Releases Beta 3 of X11

pudge posted more than 11 years ago | from the running-programs-slowly-faster dept.

X 58

maxentius writes "Apple says the just released beta of X11 adds: pseudocolor (8-bit) visual plane support; option to quit X11 without presenting warning dialog; Command-Q keyboard shortcut to quit X11; Command-, to bring up preferences dialog; keyboard mappings with dead keys fixed; linking against libGL no longer results with multiple definitions of glGetColorTableEXT; locked files left behind in /tmp no longer block non-admin users from starting X11; windows can be resized by user to any size and not be limited by the Dock's height; dragging remotely hosted windows no longer causes crash; hardware accelerated scrolling in 16 bit mode now works; X server no longer crashes if application tried to retrieve data back from the framebuffer using XGetImage; bug fixes and other feature enhancements."

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How much longer are we going to get betas? (-1, Flamebait)

riclewis (617546) | more than 11 years ago | (#5534461)

I'm not sure if all these betas being released by Apple (Safari, iSync, X11) are a good indication of progression, or a sign that they can't seem to put out a finished product...

I'd go with "a good sign of progression" myself (3, Insightful)

RalphBNumbers (655475) | more than 11 years ago | (#5534482)

They include alot of big improvements in almost every beta release. I think it's a sign of Apple's good quality standards (well, that and an interest in avioding support issues) that they're still calling them betas, alot of companies release far buggier and less feature complete software as 1.0 versions.

Re:How much longer are we going to get betas? (5, Insightful)

birdman666 (144812) | more than 11 years ago | (#5534497)

I personally think it's nice that they are releasing betas to the general public for these projects. People have been playing around with betas of apple software for years, I'm sure multiple people who are reading this have installed 'Rhapsody'. So instead of making people who prefer to be on the bleeding edge of the MacOS obtain their beta products using methods not exactly 'legal', they just let us have them with the warning that they aren't quite perfect yet. For some reason, Apple people just can't wait for new products to come out. I appreciate Apple giving us our crack now, rather than making us wait for it.

Re:How much longer are we going to get betas? (3, Insightful)

Luxviaest (625801) | more than 11 years ago | (#5535918)

Not only do I agree with your comment, I also happen to think that they are releasing them to the public so that those people who happen to be within the programming community can check out the programs and help Apple debug them far more quickly then they could on their own. Another factor which comes into play is the concept of bragging rights that come with the release of say a new X11 client, or a brand new web browser.

Just my 2 cents...

Re:How much longer are we going to get betas? (3, Funny)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 11 years ago | (#5534675)

iSync 1.0 has been out for months.

Re:How much longer are we going to get betas? (4, Insightful)

EddydaSquige (552178) | more than 11 years ago | (#5535956)

I think that apple released a beta of iSync not because it wanted to, but because palms support for OS X was so lacking and that was effecting consumer opinion of the Mac.

As far as Safari and X11 go, these are built upon open source, and while they don't have to realease to the public for debugging, it is the norm.

first post V3.o (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5534466)

Hi everybody

Re:first post V3.o (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5534483)

Failure V3.0. I tried.

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5534480)

first post

Re: fp (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5534495)

I don't know how in the hell you think you're going to get the first goddamn post by posting 8 goddamn minutes after the goddamn story was published. Moron.

Re: fp (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5538439)

I've gotten first post 80 minutes after a story's posting time. Mind you, it was an obscure story in YRO, but it is possible.

Dear Apple (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5534493)

Dear Apple,

I am a homosexual. I bought an Apple computer because of its well earned reputation for being "the" gay computer. Since I have become an Apple owner, I have been exposed to a whole new world of gay friends. It is really a pleasure to meet and compute with other homos such as myself. I plan on using my new Apple computer as a way to entice and recruit young schoolboys into the homosexual lifestyle; it would be so helpful if you could produce more software which would appeal to young boys. Thanks in advance.

with much gayness,

Father Randy "Pudge" O'Day, S.J.

Re: Dear Apple (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5534507)

Shut the fuck up. Thanks.

Re: Dear Apple (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5535849)

Please watch your language. We don't like to see naughty words like that in our forum.

Re:Dear Apple (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5538494)

It is a mathematically provable fact that there are more gay men using PCs than Macs, through sheer marketshare.

Besides, how do you account for the gay man's superior sense of style?

And, how do you account for proving this point by cutting-and-pasting the same woefully pathetic incendiary letter on every single goddamned Apple post?

How, AC, do you reconcile the fact that you are somehow *threatened* by what is (by your own admission) the Mac's superior technology? How do you respond to that without looking for all the world like Jackass Prime?

Answer: you don't.

Dear Father O'Day (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5534501)

Dear Father O'Day:

Thanks for your letter. Being Catholic myself, I know exactly what you're talking about! It has always been our plan here at Apple Computer Inc to revolutionize personal computing with our high-quality and highly gay products.

I'm happy to answer your letter by letting you know that YES we will be releasing an entire hLife ("homo-life") software line. You'll be able to recognize it in stores by the small stylized logo depicting a large cock entering a tight anus with an Apple logo on it. ("Suddenly it all comes together" indeed!).

Anyway, I hope you and other members of our community will join us on our mission, and purchase the exciting new hLife boxed set. Only the boxed set comes with translucent cock rings!

Sincerely,

Harry Rodman
Vice-president
Homosexual Liaison Services
Apple Computer, Inc.

Quit without warning: how? (1, Interesting)

pauljlucas (529435) | more than 11 years ago | (#5534543)

... option to quit X11 without presenting warning dialog ...
How do you set this option? There's nothing under Preferences for it.

Re:Quit without warning: how? (4, Informative)

CableModemSniper (556285) | more than 11 years ago | (#5534630)

Well, if you would read their FAQ, you might've noticed this:
Added an option to quit X11 without presenting warning dialog : "defaults write com.apple.x11 no_quit_alert true". See man page for Xquartz for more details.

Re:Quit without warning: how? (4, Informative)

aberkvam (109205) | more than 11 years ago | (#5534750)

RTFM.

From the FAQ:

Added an option to quit X11 without presenting warning dialog : "
defaults write com.apple.x11 no_quit_alert true". See man page for Xquartz for more details.
And from the man XQuartz page:
CUSTOMIZATION

Xquartz can also be customized using the defaults(1) com-
mand. The available options are:

defaults write com.apple.x11 enable_fake_buttons true
Equivalent to the -fakebuttons command line
option.

defaults write com.apple.x11 fake_button2 modifiers
Equivalent to the -fakemouse2 option.

defaults write com.apple.x11 fake_button3 modifiers
Equivalent to the -fakemouse3 option.

defaults write com.apple.x11 keymap_file filename
Equivalent to the -keymap option.

defaults write com.apple.x11 no_quit_alert true
Disables the alert dialog displayed when attempt-
ing to quit X11.

defaults write com.apple.x11 depth depth
Equivalent to the -depth option.

jeez (-1, Flamebait)

Tuxinatorium (463682) | more than 11 years ago | (#5534581)

from the name you'd think it's the sequel to OS X. Or would that be OS XI? I can't wait for OS XIII. Why the roman numerals?

Re:jeez (1, Funny)

NeuroKoan (12458) | more than 11 years ago | (#5534628)

To my knowledge the digit '1' is not a roman numeral. But I could just be an idiot.

Re:jeez (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5535015)

What are you talking about?

Its "ecks eleven". Not supposed to be roman numerals.

Re:jeez (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5535126)

No kidding. Did you read the grandparent?

Re:jeez (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5535896)

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

What are the "killer" X11 apps I should have (3, Interesting)

phpsocialclub (575460) | more than 11 years ago | (#5535032)

What are some cool/usefull X11 apps that I can install on a OS X 10.2 machine

I have already used fink to install Bluefish (a html editor), XMMS (mp3 player), and tkcvs (cvs client).

and some games, scorched earth, etc.

anyone have any good ideas of other stuff that I should be running on my laptop or desktop g4s

Re:What are the "killer" X11 apps I should have (4, Funny)

capmilk (604826) | more than 11 years ago | (#5535333)

xbill, xtank and xgalaga are pretty cool. I mean, you wanted "killer" apps. ;)

Re:What are the "killer" X11 apps I should have (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5535479)

Well KDE is pretty damned cool... I like running koffice...

Re:What are the "killer" X11 apps I should have (4, Informative)

eMilkshake (131623) | more than 11 years ago | (#5535635)

Well, grab yourself some fink [sourceforge.net] and then fink commander [slashdot.org] and look for all those gnome things you used to love.

But, you'll definately want to grab LyX. Then, wonder off and get TeXShop and start churning out some TeX to amaze your friends with your superfine equation-writing sk1llz.

Re:What are the "killer" X11 apps I should have (2, Informative)

JJSpreij (84475) | more than 11 years ago | (#5537464)

Then, wonder off and get TeXShop

TeXShop runs just fine without X11 ;-)

Re:What are the "killer" X11 apps I should have (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5540178)

The person you're replying to stated they already have fink, and the person who replied to you claims TeX is ported to the mac sans-X11 already. So, gee, I guess you're just all-around WRONG today.

ghostview, rasmol, texmac ,gimp, xemacs, tex2im (2, Informative)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 11 years ago | (#5536268)

ghostview. currently I have not found any programs as good as ghostview for manipulating eps files without losing resolution.

rasmol is the workhorse molecular graphics program

texmac is TeX with a really nice realtime wysiwyg, pallete and menu driven setup.

gimp is the Gnu answer to photoshop. about as powerful though a little less freindly and fast.

tex2im turns TeX equations into graphics. I use this with Keynote as an equation creator. (there are some other solutions too). well its not an X app but the other programs that do this are.

Re:ghostview, rasmol, texmac ,gimp, xemacs, tex2im (1)

JDWTopGuy (209256) | more than 11 years ago | (#5541502)

gimp is the Gnu answer to photoshop. about as powerful though a little less freindly and fast.

Mega-dittoes on the GIMP. The GIMP is the only image editing app I have on my powerbook and it's the only one I need. (iPhoto doesn't really count and neither does PixelNhance, although it is a cool app) I make a lot of original tiled wallpapers with it, but I also use it to recompress images for the web.

iPhoto exports massive files, and there's nothing more annoying than a webpage with massive graphics. The compression preview makes it a cinch to find the perfect balance of quality and compression, although for some reason it won't tell me the actual size in KB (like it claims it should be doing).

Definitely get the GIMP.

Gimp Is Not Photoshop (1)

frankie (91710) | more than 11 years ago | (#5562574)

gimp is the Gnu answer to photoshop. about as powerful though a little less freindly and fast.

Please. Gimp is a damn nice piece of work, especially since it's Free, but never Never NEVER say that it's "about as powerful" as Photoshop. Any graphics/design/DTP/etc professional can tell you several dozen ways that you're wrong.

For an amateur user who generates maybe handful of designs per month, Gimp is fine once you cover the learning curve. It's not Photoshop, but it doesn't need to be, so don't lie about it.

Re:What are the "killer" X11 apps I should have (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5537347)

well... xmgrace is a great graphing program, lyx, evolution... need I go on?

Re:What are the "killer" X11 apps I should have (2, Informative)

shayborg (650364) | more than 11 years ago | (#5537580)

GIMP is a great basic image editing app. LaTeX is very useful as well, as is Ghostview. (I never could get it working in Mac OS 9.) AxyFTP is also a solid, if unspectacular, FTP client, and is a good choice if you're familiar with WS_FTP.

-- shayborg

Cool! (4, Funny)

PrimeWaveZ (513534) | more than 11 years ago | (#5535057)

I can feel the difference in xMahJongg. Now if I could only get my ASCII porn stuff to look better under hardware acceleration, I'd be set. Oh well, something for the next update. Hehehe.

Re:Cool! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5535183)

I hope somebody is gonna mod this up +funny. xmahjongg??!!

Hardware Accelerated XDarwin coming (2, Informative)

dochood (614876) | more than 11 years ago | (#5535764)

I wonder how this beta will compare with the hardware-accelerated X-Darwin [xdarwin.org] that is coming (4.3)...

The last XDarwin would run KDE 3.0.7 just fine, but the Apple beta would freeze the whole machine when I ran it... that's the primary reason I want X11 (and for Gimp...)

I'm dowloading the new Apple beta now...

dochood

Still randomly quits... (1)

rfovell (226905) | more than 11 years ago | (#5537226)

Unfortunately, the latest X11 beta still semi-randomly quits on me, almost always when launching another app. This happens on all three of my Macs, running 10.2.3 or 10.2.4.

It doesn't seem to matter which app I launch, and whether X11 is in the foreground or not, or hidden or not, during the launching. Nor does it quit every time another app is launched - just a fraction of the time. I'm in the habit now of launching every conceivable app I can think of that I might need prior to starting X11. Needless to say, that's sub-optimal. Maybe the next beta?

Re:Still randomly quits... (2, Interesting)

Drakino (10965) | more than 11 years ago | (#5537792)

I had similar issues, and sent my crash log to someone at Apple to look at. A few hours later, I had the response of "stop unsanity from patching X11". Aka, one of the hacks to OS X that I installed from Unsanity.com was causing problems. I pulled all of them out, and the last beta started working fine.

I need to send the crash log over to those folks so they can narrow down what was happening.

Re:Still randomly quits... (1)

Gropo (445879) | more than 11 years ago | (#5538673)

Ahh, Unsanity...

The 'RJ Reynolds' of the Mac world... (you pay them to give your system cancer)

'Haven't used a "haxie" since 10.0. Which ones were you using?

Re:Still randomly quits... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5540219)

I'm glad others share my dim view of unsanity. I installed their useless times-out-after-10-minutes windowshadeX and months later realized I still had some task called "aped" running 24/7 'enhancing" my applications somehow. I can't say for sure, but I could swear my system is more stable since I got rid of it. In any case, their programs are all useless hacks, and they shouldn't be trusted.

Re:Still randomly quits... (1)

Drakino (10965) | more than 11 years ago | (#5540606)

I had the Application Enhancer running as well as Fruit Menu. AE was used to turn off the brushed metal appearance on Safari, but I reverted to using Camino again anyhow. I have a feeling AE was causing it by touching X11 when it shouldn't have. I also disabled Fruit Menu, and am not sure if I am going to reinstall either one. Running my X11 apps in a stable enviornment is more important then rearranging my Apple menu or undoing the stupid UI design decisions Apple has been doing lately.

The Apple menu of old, and not so old (1)

rfovell (226905) | more than 11 years ago | (#5542068)

I had the Application Enhancer running as well as Fruit Menu.

From my reading of Unsanity's website, FruitMenu contains AE anyway, so deep-sixing AE probably isn't enough. I also use FruitMenu - and another app, ASM (which enables an app switching menu), as well. They make OS X into... what it should be, IMHO. It's going to be harder for me to give them up.

The first Mac OS X Server, nee Rhapsody, contained a fully functional Apple menu - one that was actually more easily customizable than in any Classic Mac OS. I, for one, lament how this very useful yet unobtrusive tool has been enervated. If anyone hasn't seen MOSXS/Rhapsody, here are two screenshots highlighting the Apple menu:

Apple menu dropped down [mac.com]

Customizing the Apple menu [mac.com]

Re:Hardware Accelerated XDarwin coming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5540257)

The xdarwin.org website you link to wants to sell me something for $79 that xfree86.org and apple.com are giving away for free. I don't know whats on those cds, but seeing as how the apple download WITH sdk is less megs than they want dollars, I think I'll be closing that window now.

And isn't the apple one hardware accelerated already?!

Cocksmokers!

Fink Support (2, Informative)

Dunedain (16942) | more than 11 years ago | (#5536299)

Having run into this last night, please be aware that Fink's system-xfree86 package doesn't support Apple X11 0.3 yet. I'm sure that support will come soon, but it was awfully disconcerting pulling a powerbook out of its box, grabbing X11, the SDK, and Fink, and watching it mysteriously fail.

Re:Fink Support (1)

elmer-12 (117845) | more than 11 years ago | (#5536786)

exactly what was the problem?

Re:Fink Support (1)

gnuadam (612852) | more than 11 years ago | (#5537403)

Problem is fixed. I updated, and it recognized my newly installed X11 3 beta fine.

Re:Fink Support (1)

elmer-12 (117845) | more than 11 years ago | (#5539498)

This just seen on the Fink website:
"It is recommended that all Fink users who are using Apple X11 upgrade. A new version of the system-xfree86 package has been released to unstable that takes the new Apple X11 into account. It should be appearing in stable shortly. "

Full-screen mode? (3, Interesting)

semanticgap (468158) | more than 11 years ago | (#5536489)

I tried Apple's X11, but couldn't figure out how to run it full-screen with WindowMaker. (I wouldn't need this had Apple provided virtual desktops that could be switched as fast as WindowMaker does it).... So I gave up and went back to XDarwin.

Re:Full-screen mode? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5539159)

huh?
i've never had any problem with windowmaker. are you saying the clip is covered up with the menubar? I span two monitors, with windowmaker showing up in one, the other looking just like the regular apple desktop. but I've also run them together on one monitor without problems. you just need to move your wm dock and clip to more convenient locations

Re:Full-screen mode? (1)

trouser (149900) | more than 11 years ago | (#5540307)

You can run windowmaker instead of quartz-wm and it is cool, although things look a little cluttered with the clip and windowmaker dock overlayed on the normal OSX desktop.

Not really the point though. The question was can you run it full screen and the answer is no. Apple's X11 will only run rootless. If you want full screen you need to use the XDarwin port of XFree86. It doesn't use any hardware acceleration for rendering so it is a lot slower than Apple's X11 but it can be run fullscreen or rootless. You can even kill the OSX window server and start XDarwin from a console login which is how you'd get a GUI going if you just installed Darwin rather than OSX.

Re:Full-screen mode? (1)

Aptitude Dude (656149) | more than 11 years ago | (#5542598)

Have you had any luck getting any other virtual desktop environments working with a 2 monitor setup? Which other desktops are supported?

Aqua Apps in X11 (1)

Drakon (414580) | more than 11 years ago | (#5537493)

I was wondering if its possible to push aqua applications into X, because I really like my window manager (ion) and it would be a shame to have to buy another intel as my next computer

thanks in advance

Re:Aqua Apps in X11 (1)

Apaturia (155233) | more than 11 years ago | (#5540625)

If Aqua really isn't your thing, what are you doing on Mac OS X? And if you like OS X, why are you complaining about such a trivial thing? Just wondering here.

But to answer your question, no, you can't make OS X applications use your X window manager.

But does it have applescript support? (2, Interesting)

acomj (20611) | more than 11 years ago | (#5539161)

I have apples X and I use Xemacs. Is there a easy way to make emacs or any X application act like a regular apple application? (You click on the icon it goes. Drag document to icon and it starts..).

I tried some quick applescript things but they didn't work. /Aram

Re: Xemacs for OS X (1)

bursch-X (458146) | more than 11 years ago | (#5541962)

Yes there is a way. Use the OS X native version of Xemacs [osxgnu.org] .

If that link doesn't work, there are other mirrors on OSXGNU's website [osxgnu.org] .

Re:But does it have applescript support? (1)

Margin Walker (89198) | more than 11 years ago | (#5560999)

Check out X11 Extension [apple.com] . It lets you create double-clickable icons to launch whatever X (or non-X for that matter) applications you want.
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