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Eclipse 2.1 Released

michael posted about 11 years ago | from the tools-of-the-trade dept.

Java 298

insomnia writes "Eclipse 2.1 has been unleashed to the world today. Eclipse is an open-source Java IDE environnement and I highly recommend it; developing under your favorite text editor feels like comparing Eclipse to the dinosaur age - I can't live without refactoring now. You can see what's new in this release here."

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298 comments

Firstis Postis (-1)

Luke SkyTroller (564295) | about 11 years ago | (#5621396)

.1

Re:Firstis Postis (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5621402)

You have become more powerful than I can imagine!

Re:Firstis Postis (-1, Offtopic)

alexburke (119254) | about 11 years ago | (#5621403)

Nice first. What, are you looking into The Mysterious Future or something?

A paying troll account... yikes.

ATTN FIRST POSTERS ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5621692)

The high troll council has patriotically decided that all first posts, forst posts, forst pists and toast posts will be called "freedom posts" in the future due to the cowardly surrendermonkeyism of the firsts.

Good stuff (1)

PhilipChapman (325188) | about 11 years ago | (#5621400)

I really liked eclipse 2.0, with the improve c# plugin, but that gtk-2.2 progress bar bug was a pita...I tried one of the rc's and it was fixed though. Look forward to using this version.

YOU ARE MOST LIKELY A GAY HOMOSEXUAL SLASHDOT USER (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5621529)

fag

this is not a troll

Re:YOU ARE MOST LIKELY A GAY HOMOSEXUAL SLASHDOT U (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5621566)

Gay homosexual? Jeez, I really didn't know that there could be any other kind of homosexual. Straight homosexual? Not likely. ANYHOW...

Java (0, Troll)

wordisms (624668) | about 11 years ago | (#5621401)

Is java really worth developing for? I think it is great for its ease of programming and library support, but it's requirement of running on virtual machines leads to huge memory requirements for the simplest programs, and GC while nice, can lead to slow apps.

Why would anyone want to write a serious "enterprise" application in Java vs. say C++??

Re:Java (4, Informative)

Dr. Bent (533421) | about 11 years ago | (#5621429)

My company's entire business model is centered around making enterprise applicatons in Java. It's extremely efficent and performant for server-side apps and web services. We also have Java client side apps that are as fast and memory efficent as any of our competitor's products (that are not written in Java).

Java will run as fast or as slow as you make it. We've re-written C applicatons in Java and actually made them run faster by improving the architecture. If you try to write a Java app using C/C++ programming techniques, it will suck. If you take the time to learn how Java is supposed to work, you'll be 10 times more productive and create a product of equal (or better) quality.

Re:Java (3, Troll)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | about 11 years ago | (#5621433)

Is java really worth developing for? I think it is great for its ease of programming and library support, but it's requirement of running on virtual machines leads to huge memory requirements for the simplest programs, and GC while nice, can lead to slow apps.

I would not recommend Java for small programs. But my company sells a scientific application that is written in Java. It handles large amounts of data and applies clustering algorithms that are computationally intensive. Compared with the sheer amounts of work that our own code is doing, the VM overhead is hardly noticeable. Our customer base is evenly split between academia and the pharmaceutical industry. Almost a third of our installs are on the Mac, and there's a few percent who are using Linux. The rest are running Windows.

Our leading competitor sells a Windows-only product. We have three times as much market share.

Why would anyone want to write a serious "enterprise" application in Java vs. say C++??

Because C++ sucks. [andkon.com]

Re:Java (1)

SamBeckett (96685) | about 11 years ago | (#5621531)

Your c++ page certainly shows a certain maturity about you. Bjarne was right on with his response to your email.

Re:Java (1)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | about 11 years ago | (#5621559)

You think that's my page?! C++ didn't even exist back when I was in high school.

I especially liked the part where he explains to Bjarne why JavaScript has a better type system.

Re:Java (2, Interesting)

graveyhead (210996) | about 11 years ago | (#5621578)

Your c++ page certainly shows a certain maturity about you. Bjarne was right on with his response to your email.
I have to agree with this. It seriously must be a troll, but whatever I can't let that stand.

It is unbelievable how rude some people are. I read this guy MillionthMonkey (240664)'s fscking page thinking I might get a well-reasoned report on why, exactly, C++ sucks, possibly similar to the XML sucks article /. posted a few days ago by Tim Bray. Instead what I get is the rantings of a kid barely (if at all) out of college who is complaining more about problems with his school than with the actual limitations of the C++ language. I would have even been willing to put up with "feature X in Java is a great replacement for feature Y in C++ because [insert plausable reasoning here].

It is simply un-fricking-believable that this goddamned script-kiddie can have such disregard for nearly 20 years of computer science, and a language that is virtually ubiquitous. Hey Monkey, if you can't learn C++ (I learned it on my own no teacher required, it's not all THAT hard) I suggest you give up the profession for something a little less stressful. Shoveling shit is nice and doesn't make you do that really hard thing... you know, using that brain.

I cry for the future of my profession :(

Re:Java (1)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | about 11 years ago | (#5621587)

I wasn't trolling, I just thought the kid's letter to Bjarne and the response he got were amusing.

You're the third person who thought that was a link to my own page. I guess I have to start using those smileys in my posts.

Re:Java (1)

graveyhead (210996) | about 11 years ago | (#5621605)

Well then, my apologies to you.

sed 's/MillionthMonkey/andraskonya@hotmail.com/g' $last_slashpost > $next_slashdotpost

:)

Re:Java (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 11 years ago | (#5621679)

That is unprofesionaly and rude. If I dislike something I would never insult the author if he/she did alot of work towards it and knows a hell of alot more then I do about the subject.

Especially I would not insult someone that can code rings around you and the kids website. If you do not know much about c++/c then don't bitch. You have no idea what your talking about. Also the kids website mentioned he had a poor instructor who could not even read c++ code. This might have something to do with it.

I know python and javascript and I am learning c++ and perl now. C++ is an incredibly powerfull and langauge. I had no idea I could declare an identifer as type "register" and bypass the ram and use the cpu registers directly! Try that in any other language? For writing cad apps this is essential for speed.

Also I love calling functions by reference and using type "const" identifers to get the speed advantages of using call by reference and protecting the original values. In most programming languages if you use call by reference you could corrupt the orginal value and fuck up the program. Tail recursion is also cool and I am learning that now. Alot of goto statements in c could be gone with it.

C++ rocks and power comes complexity. If you want to create apps simply and quickly use VB. If you want to learn cs and hard core programming learn c/c++.

Re:Java (1)

addaon (41825) | about 11 years ago | (#5621556)

Gee, I don't normally troll so blatantly, but you're an idiot. Mods, please mod this down, but not before giving me a fair hearing by reading that link of his. All the way to the painful, immature, and ignorant end.

Re:Java (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about 11 years ago | (#5621620)

I sure hope that wayback machine is still doing its thing in another 4 years when that kid graduates from college. He's sure done a good job of demonstrating his ignorance. Just read his rant on why mozilla is just a way for AOL to steal from opensource programmers. His stuff is just too funny that there is no way it could be a joke.

Re:Java (1)

Elendur (228338) | about 11 years ago | (#5621681)

"After all, I must be a complete idiot since it's not like I have made my own website or anything, oh wait, I did!"

This is classic.

Re:Java (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5621707)

I dont know if it is the incompetence of my teachers and peers OR that C++ sucks ass that I cannot get anything to work.

Or maybe it's the third option: that you're a moron, and should stick FORTRAN or BASIC.

Re:Java (0, Flamebait)

master_p (608214) | about 11 years ago | (#5621797)

Oh man, the world is really headed for destruction!!! :-) With clueless guys like you, I am certain of it...

C++ does not suck, it's your puny little brain that sucks and does not understand some basic programming principles. I can be 10 times more productive with C++ and Qt than Java, simply because C++ provides meta-programming with templates...my app would be faster, and the malloc problems are pure fud if you have a little experience!!!

The only problem with C++ is that it lacks a good set of libraries for GUI, databases etc. But Qt is a godsend lib, and with it you can truly see the power of C++!!!

I don't work for Trolltech, but I am so much amazed with Qt that I can't stop admiring it.

Re:Java (1)

AndyS (655) | about 11 years ago | (#5621833)

I used to think like you, but now I disagree - malloc problems in complex applications aren't always simple. If you want massive code reuse you end up unnecessarily copying, or generally doing large amounts of allocation/deallocation. It's pretty hideous.

Some of the problems can be fixed by massive redesign, but half of the time this simply makes the application harder to understand.

Re:Java (1)

BitwizeGHC (145393) | about 11 years ago | (#5621448)

Actually Java sucks because it doesn't do enough of those things you mentioned.

You want a serious enterprise language? Try LISP or Smalltalk.

Re:Java (5, Informative)

methuseleh (29812) | about 11 years ago | (#5621450)

I'm no programmer... I can hack out ugly code in PHP, Perl, and JavaScript, and that's about it. And I can't answer your question w/ regards to developing in Java...

But... I do know that Eclipse is a general-purpose IDE which happens to be written in Java... You can use Eclipse to develop in other languages by installing the appropriate language plug-in.

I just installed Eclipse last week & I'm going to use it for PHP development...

Re:Java (3, Insightful)

rjha94 (265433) | about 11 years ago | (#5621494)

its not a question of whether people would like to write enterprise applications in java. most of the consulation industry atleast is already doing that.

I am sure language per se can not be such a deciding factor when designing enterprise applications and the fact that it runs on VM or the fact that users of app would have to purchase Big IRON machines to run it. No, there are never the deciding factors!

Java is certainly not suitable for certain kind of applications but so is any other language. and this false 'macho' sense that i am doing it on metal in 'C/C++' is well false, thats all. [ there would be thousands of instances of brain-damaged C++ code written by brain-damaged programmers!]

Its not that just writing it in C/C++ makes you a more capable programmer! Java is much more cleaner. Things that suck most are primarily in libraries.

And, anyway, extending the logic, why not write everything in assembly ? or make your own ADDER from NAND gates ? or do you know how the electrons tunnel through to make a transistor work ?

Re:Java (4, Interesting)

Baki (72515) | about 11 years ago | (#5621561)

The bank where I work (30000 employees) uses only mainframe (PL/1) and Java. Gradually mainframe functions are moved to very large (partitioned) Sun servers running solely Java software and Oracle databases.

All business logic for this large enterprise is being developed (or redeveloped) into Java. This has been going on for 3-4 years, and has already proven itself very much.

For "enterprises" the fact that you need 50% more RAM and 20% more CPU compared to C++ is insignificant. UNIX hardware is very cheap compared to mainframes, and especially compared to people. If you get better code that is easier to develop and maintain, it is by far worth it. Also Java offers lots of rich standard API's (in J2EE) that "everyone" uses, avoiding difficult choices and gambles if you base your software on the 'correct' standards.

Since banks often rely on 3rd party software/components (e.g. that implement some reporting according to international banking standards) and all vendors offer components that fit into the std. Java frameworks, there is hardly another option.

It depends - and not in investment banking (1)

hughk (248126) | about 11 years ago | (#5621757)

I work with trading systems. There are a lot of things you can implement cheaply and efficiently enough such as the forms around trading. However everything in the price broadcast, order and execution chain needs to be fast. It doesn't matter if your code is 1% slower than the other guys because he will get the deals and you won't.

The correct solution is to code everything out of the performance critical loop in whatver language is easy and cheap to work with, and then you write what actually matters in the fastest and most efficient way. Actually for the easy and cheap, you can find scripting languages like Perl, Python or Ruby are as good as Java if not better. Java is often a little faster though (but not always).

What Java does have is the ability to run on multiple client platforms, otherwise you have to roll out specific binaries. The joke is for serious applications, your Java often has to call down through JNI to some special stuff that is platform specific anyway so you lose that advantage.

Re:Java (1)

WasterDave (20047) | about 11 years ago | (#5621694)

Sir,

An excellent troll, you are to be commended.

Seriously. It looked really clunky to me, but you hooked 'em AND the daft fuckers got modded to +5.

Sweet.

Dave

Re:Java (4, Insightful)

Groo Wanderer (180806) | about 11 years ago | (#5621725)

" Is java really worth developing for? I think it is great for its ease of programming and library support, but it's requirement of running on virtual machines leads to huge memory requirements for the simplest programs, and GC while nice, can lead to slow apps."

A quick check of pricewatch shows that a 512MB stick of DDR2700 is $49. So for less than $100, you can have a gig. Ram isn't an issue any more. 2GHz+ CPUs are floating in the low hundred dollar range, so CPU power won't be an issue by the time any program started now is released.

A quick look at what java is used for shows it isn't made for prepackaged, store bought programs like Photoshop (Sklyarov), Warcraft (BNetD) or Word (to many to mention, the messages probably cap at a gig in length). These are the domain for C. Java is used for business logic, multi-tiered client/server programming, and interfaces for knowledge workers. That is where it rules. It has connectivity, net-awareness, security and a general lack of bugged code built into it's genes in a way that other languages simply never will.

When you write in java, most of the crap simply isn't there. You can write components easily, and deploy them across a corporation with a large, hetrogenous computing infrastructure with little if any porting. This is what gives CIOs wet dreams, and saves cubic dollars for companies. Add that to the fact that you can run it on damn near everything from a cell phone to a sun 15K, and you have a good deal of flexibility.

You are looking at this from a perspective of someone writing an app for a user to run on a PC. This is a very valid programming model, but not the one that java is aimed at. While it will work, you are missing out on what makes java shine.

-Charlie

Re:Java (1)

JaJ_D (652372) | about 11 years ago | (#5621793)

Why would anyone want to write a serious "enterprise" application in Java vs. say C++??

Pass

But you could always try asking some of the plethora of the massive global banks (i.e. MSDW, CSFB, UBS, HSBC, Lehmanns, Barcleys, RBOS, HBoS, LloydsTSB, DKW, DB, etc...) who use it for many things including real-time global trading systems

Or go onto any jobsite (i.e. Jobserve [jobserve.com]) and search under "C++" and then "Java" and see the numbers (when i did 29th/03/03 at 11am uk time the numbers were 1201 [java] and 1251 [c++])

Or troll on comp.lang.Java.* (or /.) with a "Java sucks C++ is better" and see what happens

:-)

Eclipse, Java ... (5, Funny)

joeflies (529536) | about 11 years ago | (#5621405)

Is the name "eclipse" a not so subtle reference to overtaking the Sun?

Re:Eclipse, Java ... (4, Funny)

jpt.d (444929) | about 11 years ago | (#5621424)

but my friend, {solar} eclipses only overtake the sun for a short time, and then fade into the abyss. It is the Forté of the Sun that keeps it going bright. The Java Warriors of Solaris will shine bright again!

Re:Eclipse, Java ... (2, Interesting)

Soko (17987) | about 11 years ago | (#5621471)

Seems plausible.

I saw nary a Sun logo on the eclipse.org [eclipse.org] page of consortium members.

With IBM, HP(Compaq) and several other *nix vendors - as well a several application vendors that drive Sun harware sales - in the consortium, you'd figure they'd be in from the get-go.

IMHO, this just goes to show that Sun doesn't truly get what OSS is yet (Open Office [openoffice.org] being the exception to the rule), and what it could do for them. If they would release Java as a true open standard, they'd end up looking like the proverbial cat in the bird cage.

Soko

Wow. (4, Informative)

Samrobb (12731) | about 11 years ago | (#5621427)

That's all I can say... they've certainly packed an awful lot into this release. The JDT team, in particular, seems to be consistent about picking up some of the best features of other IDEs and editors and incorporating them into Eclipse.

If you do Java development, I'd recommend giving Eclipse a try. I've been using it for about a year now, to do plugin developent for Eclipse itself, and I'm still finding out new tricks and shortcuts to make my life easier.

If you do C/C++ development, check out the CDT [eclipse.org] project. While the current incarnation (1.0.1) of CDT is definitely usable, there's a lot of work going on to expand the capabilities of the C/C++ support and bring it up to par with the Java development tools - adding in things like incremental compilation, source navigation/browsing, refactoring, and all the other IDE goodies that Java devlopers already enjoy.

Plus - there's over 250 plugins [2y.net] available for Eclipse, including things like an RSS channel monitor [negrej.free.fr] for slashdot in your IDE.

OT: but what's up with slashdot? (0, Offtopic)

cabra771 (197990) | about 11 years ago | (#5621435)

The last three stories have no # of replies on the front page. Am I the only one seeing this? Has slashcode been updated and got a few bugs? Anyone?

Re:OT: but what's up with slashdot? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5621442)

Happening to me too.

Re:OT: but what's up with slashdot? (1)

ottffssent (18387) | about 11 years ago | (#5621451)

And here I thought there were no replies to the WinXP story because nobody cares. *sigh* I can always hope, right?

Re:OT: but what's up with slashdot? (1)

Adam9 (93947) | about 11 years ago | (#5621465)

Also.. the number of comments from the other stories have not changed as well. I'm guessing they made the front page semi-static for some reason.

Re:OT: but what's up with slashdot? (1)

Pflipp (130638) | about 11 years ago | (#5621761)

I'm guessing they made the front page semi-static for some reason.

Because it was posted on Slashdot (somewhere %), it runned the risk at being slashdotted, so they put in a static page.

Re:OT: but what's up with slashdot? (1)

tulare (244053) | about 11 years ago | (#5621575)

Ah, hell, and I thought I was going to get frist post! Oh, well.

Re:OT: but what's up with slashdot? (1)

AirLace (86148) | about 11 years ago | (#5621613)

The idea is to get an indication of how much people are influenced by the possibility that their comment will be a first post or come near the top of the pile. If you look at the total number of comments for these kinds of stories, you'll notice there are more comments on the articles without a comment tally. The collected data will be useful in the fight against first post spam and trolls.

Re:OT: but what's up with slashdot? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5621646)

Yes. It has had a bug for several weeks now (going on months) where if the story has more than 400 to 500 comments, it is impossible to get a nested listing of them. This is the third time I've commented on this, and I'm fairly certain this, like the others, will be totally ignored.

Finally!!! (4, Informative)

jzs9783 (612647) | about 11 years ago | (#5621438)

Having worked on WSAD at IBM using Eclipse 2.0.1 for development, I have been waiting for this release for quite some time! The main improvement I noticed in RC1/2 was significant speed improvement, especially upon loading.

People may think Java is dead, but it is far from it, and Eclipse will keep those who must (or want to) code in it very very happy. If you know the features, it makes life so much easier. You can have your VI if you want, but when developing REAL applications you need more than a text editor if you want the software released before it's obsolete. I strongly urge you to just test it out and give it a chance - it is by far the best IDE I have ever used.

Re:Finally!!! (2, Interesting)

Malcontent (40834) | about 11 years ago | (#5621553)

How is it when not doing java?
I use Jedit right now for almost all my writing and programming. It's great for XML/XSL, perl, python, PHP and it even has some odball plug ins like memento which is a small PIM and code2HTML which I use way more then I ever thought I would.

Is Eclipse as good as Jedit? Better? I love jedit but I'll switch if it's better.

Re:Finally!!! (1)

oops (41598) | about 11 years ago | (#5621700)

Who thinks Java is dead ? Certainly not the agents who phone me on a daily basis with their client's requirements!

GTK plugin (2, Interesting)

Salsaman (141471) | about 11 years ago | (#5621441)

Is the GTK plugin any easier to install yet ? Last time I checked, you had to jump through a number of hoops to get it installed.

It would be great if it were included as a default plugin.

Re:GTK plugin (2, Interesting)

burner (8666) | about 11 years ago | (#5621498)

GTK plugin? I'm confused. I use the GTK2 version of eclipse daily (and have since some time last spring). To what GTK plugin are your referring?

Installing GTK2 for Eclipse (1)

mparaz (31980) | about 11 years ago | (#5621726)

I had to "jump through a number of hoops" to install late Eclipse releases on Red Hat 7.3. At first it required the GTK from Red Hat 8. Now it requires an even newer GTK - I now use 2.1.1 from Rawhide.


To upgrade this GTK I had to rebuild some pieces which in binary RPM form were built against a newer glibc than what I had.

Re:Installing GTK2 for Eclipse (1)

Salsaman (141471) | about 11 years ago | (#5621826)

I'm not talking about using Eclipse under GTK, I am referring to the GTK/Java plugin. Perhaps I should have been clearer.

Emacs for the new millenium (4, Insightful)

Sanity (1431) | about 11 years ago | (#5621447)

This looks like Emacs for the new millenium - namely a powerful editor that occasionally gets confused and thinks that its an entire operating system.

But seriously, it looks good, and their replacement for Java's bloated and slow Swing GUI toolkit should be adopted by Sun yesterday.

Re:Emacs for the new millenium (1)

addaon (41825) | about 11 years ago | (#5621542)

Blech, no! Swing is about 10x faster than SWT on Macs. There is no inherent reason SWT is faster than Swing, it's just that the Swing implementations most people use (Sun and Blackice) suck rocks.

Re:Emacs for the new millenium (1)

GeorgieBoy (6120) | about 11 years ago | (#5621585)

With respect to SWT, the Mac OS X port is VERY young compared to the Windows, Motif, GTK, and even QNX Photon ports. It will be faster over time. Still Apple did a great job on their Swing implementation, and if any Apple people actually worked on the Mac OS X SWT port (which none of them do), it could be much more competitive.

Re:Emacs for the new millenium (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5621569)

If it don't have a webbrowser, its now where near Emacs.

Re:Emacs for the new millenium (1)

jkauzlar (596349) | about 11 years ago | (#5621684)

I've read a few articles or comments about SWT vs Swing and decided to stick with Swing. From what I gather, SWT is attractive to people who are overwhelmed by Swing's complexity and wish to write a standard UI fast. Swing is extremely flexible and well-designed. If you have the time, you can do just about anything you can think of.

I'd stay clear of SWT if you think there is ever a chance you'll want to merge your code into a Swing app or if you think SWT may be limiting in the future. However, if you need to build a semi-standard UI quickly for a project that will never be upgraded or won't be around long, then SWT might be viable.

Finally Eclipse is catching up with Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5621462)

I never liked previous versions of Eclipse just becuase I couldn't assign different keystrokes. It's also nice to see the battle between Eclipse and Idea since competition should drive a lot of cool features. I recently had to do a quick project in Visual Studio it just plain sucks ass compared to the Java IDE's now a days.

You recomend software (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5621463)

I would rather rape some children.

Sex with a child rocks!

Very Very Nice (1)

logicvice (150948) | about 11 years ago | (#5621466)

I recently switched over from NetBeans to Eclipse 2.0.x and am downloading 2.1 as I type. As far as Java IDE's go it is the best I've found. All the improvements in 2.1 are welcome. Using Eclipse is like having a well ordered workshop witj all the stuff you need close at hand. I think Eclipse has fewer features than NetBeans, but the features that are there are done better.

I still break out vi for basic text editing, but for Java coding this is where it is at.

Anyone used both IDEA and Eclipse? (1)

Craggles (65757) | about 11 years ago | (#5621475)

I'm using IDEA by IntelliJ, which is excellent, but they are getting a bit expensive, they just jacked the price up quite severely you don't even get point upgrades unless you buy a years subscription.

Anyhow, it looks like Eclipse is catching up very fast, has anyone used IDEA and the latest Eclipse? Can anyone comment on how they compare?

--
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.
-- Bertrand Russell

Eclipse vs. Idea (2, Insightful)

aquarian (134728) | about 11 years ago | (#5621491)

As it stands, Eclipse has more features than Idea, plus a whole bunch of plugins. Eclipse has tools for working on big, complex projects. Idea shines as a more basic editor, where it leaves everything else behind. It's just much more nicely done, with a much cleaner interface. I especially like how it automatically adds import statements, AFAIK the only IDE that does that.

The best way to find out which is better for you is to download both and try them.

Re:Eclipse vs. Idea (1)

bzzzt (313005) | about 11 years ago | (#5621538)

Eclipse does add import statements, but only if you use the code-completion feature to select a class.

Re:Eclipse vs. Idea (1)

iapetus (24050) | about 11 years ago | (#5621856)

Actually the CTRL+SHIFT+O (organise imports) shortcut will add imports for all classes that need them, prompting you to select when there are multiple possible imports that would work for a given class name. It also removes redundant import statements.

Re:Eclipse vs. Idea (2, Interesting)

oz_ko (571352) | about 11 years ago | (#5621831)

I haven't used Idea yet though I don't think they will be able to keep up with free and open source.

The new features planned for version 2.2 [eclipse.org]will surely blow them out of the water.

I think IBM have done a fantastic job to date and I hope it keeps up.

w00t (4, Informative)

tulare (244053) | about 11 years ago | (#5621478)

From the whatsnew:
Java stack traces in the console now appear with hyperlinks. When you place the mouse over a line in a stack trace, the pointer changes to the hand and the stack trace is underlined. Pressing the mouse button opens the associated Java source file and positions the cursor at the corresponding line.
I'm probably a big dork, but I've never seen this feature before, and I'm sure of some great uses for it!
Downloading...

Re:w00t (2, Informative)

Osty (16825) | about 11 years ago | (#5621549)

I'm probably a big dork, but I've never seen this feature before, and I'm sure of some great uses for it!

I thought that was standard functionality for a stack trace in an IDE? Visual Studio has done this for years, though without the hand/underline highlighting. IMHO, if you're going to put a stack trace in an IDE, this is a required feature. Otherwise, why would I use the IDE for debugging in the first place?


And just to pimp my own favorite IDE (well, it's not so much an IDE as it is a full-featured editor and program analyzer, but that's fine by me since I do builds via the commandline) is Source Insight [sourceinsight.com]. The killer functionality here is the ability to jump through relationships in the code without having to compile. The editor will keep track of relationships, so even if you have half-written code that doesn't quite compile yet, you can still browse through it and follow the flow. Plus, it's easily extendable for other programming languages (out of the box, version 3.5 supports C/C++, C#, Java, ASM, HTML, XML, Perl, Batch script, JScript, VB, VBScript, and a lot more, and there are modules available for SQL and others). Let's see Eclipse or Visual Studio keep track of thousands of files in a large project (I've used SI to keep track of relationships in upwards of 9000 files at one time, with anywhere between 50 to 100 of the files open at any given time, without any performance issues at all).


Source Insight isn't free, but the price is reasonable ($250, and you can get a site license if you're a company) and there's a 30-day free trial so you can evaluate whether it's worth $250 to you. Even if you don't like it, it's certainly worth checking out. I guess I should probably also note that it's Windows-only.

Re:w00t (1)

Mindbridge (70295) | about 11 years ago | (#5621671)

This feature has actually been available in older versions of Eclipse (2.0) -- I use it when necessary. You can double click on an exception trace in the console output, and it will take you to the code.

The difference in 2.1, I think, is that the places where you can click are now explicitly underlined. It is also possible that the recognition of those places has been improved. In any case, if I understand correctly, this is an old feature with better UI.

IDEs vs. Text Editors (5, Insightful)

eenglish_ca (662371) | about 11 years ago | (#5621504)

I have gone backwards in terms of developing software when it comes to using an IDE. Although I don't develop using Java I do work with C++ on a variety of platforms with several IDEs and text editor. When I began I used bloodshed's dev-cpp then moving onto M$'s VC++ as my projects required a better compiler and ide to handle all the files. Now, have gone back to using text editors, notepad and emacs, because I am using the compiler tools, flex and bison, in some of my work. In some ways a basic text editor is easier to work with, of course the nice color coding makes reading your code easier but really your code, when properly formatted(indenting and so forth), should be easy to read in a text editor. In addition, MDI text editors make it a breeze to program because you can have many windows open at once and still have your screen organized. Next to my text editor I have my console in which I type make and my app gets compiled as easy as 1,2,3. GCC is great to work with because it works exactly the same on windows as it does on linux. In addition, if you work on both linux and windows making the transition is easier when you don't have to deal with the clutter of all the features of an IDE no matter how well laid out they are. One of the things that attracts most people to IDEs is that a lot of them come with code wizards and so forth that help with the basic layout of applications. I have never found these to be of much use because I end up scrapping much of the code because it usually isn't as concise as I like it. So for now I will stick with my text editors.

Re:IDEs vs. Text Editors (2, Informative)

Osty (16825) | about 11 years ago | (#5621580)

In some ways a basic text editor is easier to work with, of course the nice color coding makes reading your code easier but really your code, when properly formatted(indenting and so forth), should be easy to read in a text editor.

Color coding is nice so you can see at a glance what is a variable, what is a function call, what's a constant, etc. Sure, you can do that with naming conventions (variables get lowerCaseCamelCasing, functions get UpperCaseCamelCasing, constants are ALLCAPS, etc), but that still requires more parsing than just seeing that variables are blue, functions are red, and constants are green. As well, it also helps you determine whether or not you've got a large block of commented-out code (yeah, sure, you don't leave dead code in your source files -- now try supporting someone else's source code). It's easier to see that a block is commented out when comments are blue on light-gray, rather than searching for that closing */ (it also will show you the error of nesting /**/ comments before you get to compile-time and see the build error). Finally, color-coding isn't all there is to an IDE's editor. Good IDEs will cross-reference your code, so you don't have to go digging for that Foo() function -- just [shift|control|] [double-|right-]click on the function, and there it is. Sure, you can do this with ctags and emacs or vi, but not with notepad, and not without an extra step -- building the tags.


Next to my text editor I have my console in which I type make and my app gets compiled as easy as 1,2,3.

Visual Studio can make a project out of a make (well, nmake) file, and you can turn a project back into a makefile. As well, we use a commandline-based build process at work (ultimately based on nmake, but with a lot of customizations on top in the form of batch scripts, perl scripts, WSH scripts, and executeables), and it's still more convenient to write code in the IDE but click over to a cmd.exe prompt to run a build.


One of the things that attracts most people to IDEs is that a lot of them come with code wizards and so forth that help with the basic layout of applications. I have never found these to be of much use because I end up scrapping much of the code because it usually isn't as concise as I like it.

To each his own, and I'm sure you've got your own personal library of boiler-plate code you pull from all the time. Most good programmers do. However, recent IDEs (well, VS.NET :) do create fairly good boiler-plate code, and it takes a lot of the tediousness out of development, letting you get to the core logic without having to niggle around with your message pump, or setting up a standard window, or whatever.


I've not used dev-cpp, but it's still fairly young and surely has a way to go. VS.NET is much better than VS6 (which itself was better than VS5). It's all good and well to be hardcore and prefer your favorite text editor (I still whip out vim for most scripting jobs, whether it be nt command/batch script, vbscript or jscript, perl, or php), but a good IDE is an invaluable tool for any programmer, novice to expert.

Eclipse? Nah, not worth it. (0, Troll)

malachid69 (306291) | about 11 years ago | (#5621525)

I tried Eclipse a month ago, and was severly disappointed. First off, I had to read the tutorial to figure out how to build HelloWorld with their system. Not intuitive. Also, the SWT library is a complete joke -- it doesn't look like the host OS, and requires native code. No java program using SWT is cross-platform, so what's the point?

Malachi

Re:Eclipse? Nah, not worth it. (2, Insightful)

org.earth.Citizen (582230) | about 11 years ago | (#5621562)

I tried Eclipse a month ago, and was severly disappointed. First off, I had to read the tutorial to figure out how to build HelloWorld with their system. Not intuitive. Also, the SWT library is a complete joke -- it doesn't look like the host OS, and requires native code. No java program using SWT is cross-platform, so what's the point?

Are we using two different Eclipses? From unzipping the binary distribution to setting a couple preferences to a System.out.println("Hello world"): 2 min.
Also, how can SWT not look like the native OS when it's a JNI wrapper around native widgets? Furthermore, to write SWT apps no native code has to be written by the developer, you simply need to include the SWT native library in your java.library.path. SWT is cross platform! The widget classes are nicely abstracted so that each implementation of the JNI library for each platform requires no code changes on your part. Please learn more [eclipse.org] [SWT FAQ] before dismissing it wholesale based on incomplete information!

Other languages (1)

TheViciousOverWind (649139) | about 11 years ago | (#5621571)

Have anyone made a plugin for eg. PHP for Eclipse? And is it easy to switch (I develop both Java and PHP). What advantages would it give a developer not developing Java full time?

O/t: I hope some eclipse gurus can help me (1)

mijok (603178) | about 11 years ago | (#5621586)

I have a problem with eclipse and the tomcat plugin for it: I can't get localization to work at all. I'm doing JSP-development and all non-English characters (i.e. in my case Finnish) come out as ??? and some English characters after them are missing on all pages when I use the plugin to start tomcat from eclipse. Eclipse itself shows them correctly when I've set LC_ALL=fi_FI@euro and the same thing if I run tomcat separately but not when I start it from eclipse. Then it runs so badly that strings with such characters in java classes cause nullpointerexceptions - due to incorrect lenghts caused by the characters missing after ???, I assume. Does anybody know how to fix this? Is there some additional locale setting in eclipse (well hidden since I haven't found it...) ?

Ironical (0, Troll)

vivek7006 (585218) | about 11 years ago | (#5621594)

Open source IDE for a closed source language ...

Re:Ironical (1)

anarxia (651289) | about 11 years ago | (#5621665)

The language is open source for the most part, but the license isn't free. You can modify it and use it but you cannot redistribute the modified work without permission from Sun. If you download the JDK from Sun or blackdown.org there is a file called src.zip guess what it has inside...

Redundancy (2, Informative)

tequila26er (46835) | about 11 years ago | (#5621602)


grammar nazi hat on

Am I the only one who reads IDE environment and cringes at the redundancy? It's the same as people saying they need a NIC card for their computer.

Eclipse is an open-source Java IDE. My computer can talk to other computers because it has a NIC.

grammar nazi hat off

Sorry, but that's just one my my pet peeves.

Re:Redundancy (1)

dubbreak (623656) | about 11 years ago | (#5621639)

or barron of beef with 'aux jus'.. that's barron of beef with 'with the juices'... damn idiots

Re:Redundancy (1)

Osty (16825) | about 11 years ago | (#5621673)

or barron of beef with 'aux jus'.. that's barron of beef with 'with the juices'... damn idiots

That's almost excusable, since it's mixing languages (like the infamous movie watched on MST3K, "Manos, the Hands of Fate", which translates to "Hands, the Hands of Fate"). However, if I have to listen to another person tell me they're going to the "ATM machine", I just might hit them.

Refactoring does not depend on Eclipse: Emacs! (2, Informative)

leandrod (17766) | about 11 years ago | (#5621626)

>
developing under your favorite text editor feels like comparing Eclipse to the dinosaur age - I can't live without refactoring now

You can have a better IDE [gnu.org.] doing refactoring [xref-tech.com.] as well.

Re:Refactoring does not depend on Eclipse: Emacs! (1)

Osty (16825) | about 11 years ago | (#5621645)

That's hilarious! It's ingenious the way you called emacs a "better IDE". Pure comedy gold.

Re:Refactoring does not depend on Eclipse: Emacs! (1)

jonabbey (2498) | about 11 years ago | (#5621747)

What other editor is powerful enough to keep giving you things to learn, ten years after you start using it?

I mean, sure, that's a downside if you don't like learning things..

Re:Refactoring does not depend on Eclipse: Emacs! (4, Interesting)

nilsjuergens (69927) | about 11 years ago | (#5621648)

> You can have a better IDE [gnu.org.] doing refactoring [xref-tech.com.] as well.

You cant really compare that - Xrefactory isn't even free-as-in-beer.

XEmacs sure is nice, but neither its code completion support (filling in whole method names while you type) nor its support for refactoring come anywhere near Eclipse. And don't let me get started about "Quick Fix".

Actually i would be delighted if anyone could show i'm wrong and tell me how to do it - XEmacs really has a steep learning curve (imho).

jEdit (1)

Noksagt (69097) | about 11 years ago | (#5621683)

I'll have to try the new eclipse release....again.

I first looked for alternatives to IBM's VisualAge for Java and Metroworks Codewarrior when Eclipse was first released. I was hoping it would be enough, but then I got fed up with it & started using jEdit [jedit.org]. I like having a decent functioning editor and then customizing it into a developing environment that suits my needs. Plugins are being released for the two at a comparable rate.

I may give this a try (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 11 years ago | (#5621693)

I tried out Eclipse when it was in beta and didn't like it. The ui felt uncomfortable and I did not like the everything is a plug-in method.

I use netbeans [netbeans.org] and find its a perfect ballance between functionality and slimness. You may want to download and give it a shot. Eclispe seemed to bloat very quickly if you add all the plugins and the fileview gets clogged easily. Of coarse this was the beta version so I will give it another shot.

good education (4, Informative)

hlee (518174) | about 11 years ago | (#5621695)

I've been using eclipse since 2.0, and have been closely following its development - at first out of curiosity (when I discovered Erich Gamma of the Design Patterns fame was on the project), but have over time learnt a great deal from their articles and best practices...

  • They probably have the best document [eclipse.org] about evolving Java APIs, i.e. maintaining backwards compatibility.
  • Meeting deadlines. When they publish a game plan, they stick to it - very rarely missing their milestones. They've long adopted continuous integration (automated builds, unit tests), and frequent releases.
  • SWT - their cross platform widget set, which has ports for most windowing systems under the sun. Its a lot faster and looks better than Swing. Its really a very thin JNI layer (C to Java interface) on top of the native APIs, so if you've programmed in GTK, you could take a look at the wrappers and figure out pretty quickly how to use SWT. It does have problems if there are humongous amounts of calls to be made (like with large tables - in which case you can just use Swing).

Anyway, one of my favourite features is its scrapbook that lets you execute Java statements on the fly like an interpreted language.

Worth a try if you haven't experienced it. I should know... there's an unused paid JBuilder license still sitting in my drawer.

It's not an IDE, it's a platform (4, Insightful)

OpenSourced (323149) | about 11 years ago | (#5621724)

I'm seeing here in the comments that most miss the real point of Eclipse. It's not an IDE for Java. That's simply a side-issue, or more properly a concept proof. What really smash you about Eclipse once you start using it is the possibility of modifying your own environment.


I know that that is a common possibility in all Open Source projects, but Eclipse makes it really practical, using their plug-in system. I mean that you don't have to learn the whole damn bloat of code to start adding some menu point to it. I'm developing a plug-in, and while not trivial, it's affordable.I've been developing for more years than I care. And never sensed the same kind of power as now, when I can modify my IDE to suit my preferences. Efficiency is starting to climb, even considering the time developing the plug-in. And it'b bound to skyrocket as it gets perferctioned. I mean, most of my development has a high percentage of repetitive work, that is probably different for other developers. I'm now putting all that repetitive work in automated code generation routines. It will save me ages. And Eclipse offers a lot of built-in functionality that allows you to concentrate on the real issues.


Plus, the documentation is good. I would almost call it first-class.


I've been waiting for something like Eclipse since I did my first C code to generate COBOL list programs. So it's a while. Well, I must leave you, gentelmen, I think my download of the 2.1 is finished :)

Re:It's not an IDE, it's a platform (1)

Troll_Kamikaze (646926) | about 11 years ago | (#5621823)

I've been waiting for something like Eclipse since I did my first C code to generate COBOL list programs.

C code to generate COBOL list programs?! I think I would've opted to flop my scrotum onto the nearest anvil and reach for the sledgehammer.

Where is the SWT rpm?? (1)

ahornby (1734) | about 11 years ago | (#5621794)

I'd like SWT to be released separately from eclipse so that I can develop/distribute SWT based apps easily.

Also an SWT gui builder wouldn't go amiss....

Good for PHP Developers too (2, Informative)

Bishop923 (109840) | about 11 years ago | (#5621816)

With the release of Eclipse 2.1 Xored [xored.com] has released version 0.3.4 of the WebStudio plugin that is compatable (Finally we can stop using 2.1 M5...)

Excellent Cross platform PHP/HTML IDE

Now all I need is a -good- XML/XSLT editing plugin and I can have all of my dev work in one integrated tool.

(Guess I'll have to pick up some esoteric language so I can have a reason to keep vim open, wouldn't feel right to be so efficient :-) )

CVS (1)

manseman (582150) | about 11 years ago | (#5621843)

While refactoring with Eclipse is vastly superior to manual refactoring I think the biggest advantage is the overview of and easy access to the cvs repository it offers.

However, I've been having problems with disappearing cvs log messages using Eclipse.
Perhaps this has been fixed in this release?

Still unusable (1)

cca93014 (466820) | about 11 years ago | (#5621858)

From the FAQ:

Is there a Tomcat plug-in?

No, the Eclipse SDK does not include a Tomcat plug-in.

This kills it dead for a lot of people...Is there no way to debug jsp's with Eclipse?

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