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Why ICANN Needs Fresh Blood

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the when-not-craving-blood-is-bad dept.

The Internet 96

scubacuda writes "Akash Kapur of CircleID has written an editorial, Why ICANN Needs Fresh Blood: A Deeper View . Kapur writes, "ICANN was born amid the heady days of Internet euphoria. Its early promise to be the world's first global democracy (not to mention an entirely new form of governance) was a product of that euphoria. But like so many dot-coms, ICANN quickly succumbed to the hubris of its own vision. If ICANN has been a troubled organization from the start, then that is in no small measure because it over-promised at the start....What's needed is fresh blood -- new personalities, and new ideas to break the ideological impasse." Kapur lists cancelled at-large elections, the authoritarianism and secrecy of ICANN discussion, and the narrowing possibility that ICANN could represent a new model of governance as indicators that global democracy has failed."

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I like fresh blood myself... (-1)

PedoPeteTownshend (641098) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627741)

Especially when it's oozing from a child's rectum which I have recently violated.

First Post for Peace (-1)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627747)

same stupid traps, same animosities, same racist hatred as all generations before.

this can't go on forever.

Utopian society? (0)

laserlights2000 (661582) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627750)

So this is supposed to be some utopian society? How WOULD an online government work?

Re:Utopian society? (0, Offtopic)

bumby (589283) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627955)

probably wouldn't.

Lies ICANN told me (2, Informative)

rs79 (71822) | more than 11 years ago | (#5629900)

I was called to New York to meet with Ira Magaziner and some other people about 10 months before ICANN was born. On the surface it was to end the hostilitied bewteen CORE and the alternate root folks. Some sort of democratic organization was envisioned. Lies, lies and more lies. The entire time Magaziner was running around behind the scenes - with Cochetti from IBM (now Verisign) selecting a board.

At a later and very private meeting where NSI and ICANN finally signed with each other, some very high up IBM lawyer-wonk (who called the meeting, that's how powerful they are) bragged they'd spent $60M a year of their washington lobbying budger to make sure no new TLDS were created. Is it any wonder they were so capriciously at Marina del Rey at the 2000 meeting or why there were so fucking lame?

ICANN has always been about protecting the interllectual property of big busines (read: trademarks). Never mind that there are laws protecting trademark owners but no laws protecting domain name owners.

ICANN doesn't need new blood, it just needs honest people at the helm.

As usual: vote with your nameservers - I don't care if you use the ORSC root that I coordnate, or new.net or name.space, OpenNIC or what have you, just back... away... from... the... legacy... root.

Richard Sexton

First! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5627752)

First post!

Obvious answer... (5, Funny)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627753)

ICANN needs fresh blood because it's a frickin' vampire!

In Soviet Russia... (-1)

I'm not a script, da (638454) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627871)

...vampire sucks you!

Re:In Soviet Russia... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5629447)

Wow, I didn't think anyone could screw up THAT joke.....

Very obvious answer to your sig (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5628146)

Holy fuck Tony Blair, what the HELL are you doing?

The right thing!

Re:Very obvious answer to your sig (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5628442)

The right thing, if you're a Nazi.

Re:Very obvious answer to your sig (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5629328)

If by right thing you mean destroying all that Blair stood for - internationalism, multilateralism, Europe, peace through pragmatism - then, yeah, the "right thing".

We're going to face decades of terrorism, the UN is all but destroyed (unless, sadly, France and Russia can save it), and Europe will no doubt become a federalised monolith imposing common military and foriegn policies resulting in an almost certain future break up, or a Europe nobody would ever wish for. And it's all down to Blair's attempt to appease US neo-conservatism.

Thanks Tony. Thanks George.

(Posted AC because this is off-topic)

Fresh Blood? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5627771)

I think ICANN has too much blood. It do better with less, as in zero blood. ICANN would perform much better if it were composed of dry, harmless, bones.

Re:Fresh Blood? (1)

Goldfinger7400 (630228) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628973)

>>ICANN would perform much better if it were composed of dry, harmless, bones.

But then we'd have to worry about skeletons. You know, the mean kind that Necromancers auto-summon if they have enough mana. Kinda like all those terrorist states that keep getting in our way now that the Soviets are gone. Though I doubt we'd have to worry too much about that with ICANN. What are they gonna do, throw paperwork at us?

Total reorganization (5, Interesting)

Blaine Hilton (626259) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627772)

I think the only thing that can help ICANN is a complete reorganization. Every rule and policy should be gone over by a 3rd party. The Internet is growing way to big and way to fast for ICANN to properly handle their job and they are falling very short. With their current policies I think they are hurting future growth of the medium.

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Actually what we need is... (2, Funny)

fortinbras47 (457756) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627872)

is an international organization to oversee the administration of ICANN.

Re:Actually what we need is... (3, Insightful)

buffy (8100) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628045)

Actually what we need is...is an international organization to oversee the administration of ICANN.

because extra beaurocracy _always_ solves organizational problems. Please, no...

Re:Total reorganization (1)

MrLint (519792) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628039)

Ya know every once in a while an ICANN story pops up and its like 'icann is bad' 'icann is corrupt' 'icann kicks out xyz' 'icann is run by coroprate instrests'. well ya know these are all liek true and the thing is.. everyone knows it already. I dont think the stories are unimportant, but its kinda like a shadow of a dup post. It really just kidna the same stuff over and over. Im starting to think we need to take the Ripley approach to ICANN, nuke it from space, its the only way to be sure.

The problem was Goals, not Organization (1)

billstewart (78916) | more than 11 years ago | (#5630255)

Reorganization won't help ICANN, because that was never the fundamental problem. ICANN publicized itself as having the goal of replacing Jon Postel, making the DNS system run well and perhaps managing other things like IP address space. But its definitions of "DNS running well" weren't about technology, and the IP they cared about wasn't the Internet Protocol, but Intellectual Property, and their definitions of "DNS running well" were about Intellectual Property Owners being able to control the ways that the DNS system affected their IP, particularly trademarks, and secondarily about having business models that let it fund itself stably, and only after that doing anything about technology.

That's why you'll see clumsy UDRP mechanisms that work much better for big corporations than for individuals. It's also why whois records are inherently concerned with privacy invasion (making sure to get your True Name and True Address so subpoenas work, and that everybody who manages any part of the domain registration process has to collect that rather than setting their own local policies) but don't require whois records to have actual email addresses that get to actual people who respond to fix things.

Now, some of the problems can be attributed to incompetence rather than malice, and some of them can be attributed to wise conservatism rather than indecision, and reorganization might affect both. Deploying additional TLDs has always been a very visible thing that lots of people wanted ICANN to do, but once they're deployed, they're deployed, and undoing stupid deployments is much harder than delaying. And sure, they probably couldn't have predicted the dot-com crash which radically affected the market value of domain names. But deploying more TLDs is more interesting to people who want to do new and interesting businesses than to major trademark owners who don't want to have to hassle with pre-protecting example.newTLD when they already own example.com, especially when Example Semiconductors has as good a claim to example.newTLD as the Example Soft Drinks Company which owns example.com.

ICANN is irrelevant. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5627787)

....and obsolete.

ICANN (3, Funny)

megazoid81 (573094) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627798)

If you think of ICANN as Institute for CANNibals, the title "Why ICANN Needs Fresh Blood" suddenly makes a lot of sense, but in a totally different way!

Re:ICANN (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5627864)

You Shit

Re:ICANN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5628034)

Wait, so if I say shit, my post goes to -1?

Re:ICANN (1)

rockclimber (660746) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627951)

I rather have my blood fresh then CANed

ICANN's effort at Empire Building (4, Interesting)

hillct (230132) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627802)

There is little debate among outsiders of the position that ICANN is in resperate need of being disbanded and redesigned from the ground up. The question is, - since there is little or no oversight of the organization - how would lawmakers go about tearing down the golem they've created. It's not simply a matter of U.S. law anymore. I'm not certain that ICANN could be disbanded and redesigned using anything less than an international treaty, but IANAL, so perhaps someone with expertise in this area could speak to the issue of how change would be brought about (which, is equally as interesting as what those changes would be).

--CTH

Re:ICANN's effort at Empire Building (4, Insightful)

karl.auerbach (157250) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628256)

It's become pretty clear that the US Dep't of Commerce likes ICANN the way it is. The Dept of Commerce can pretend it has authority over the Internet via ICANN (despite having absolutely no statutory authority granting the DoC the ability to do what it is doing), and because ICANN is nominally "private", the DoC can do a shell game of exercising authority when it wants authority and evading responsibility when it does not want responsibility.

The real shame of ICANN is not ICANN - although there is more than enough in that swamp alone - but, rather, in the way that the US government, in the form of the US Dept of Commerce, has abandoned principles of Constitutional and administrative law. Congress is only slightly less to blame for letting the executive branch (which is where one finds the Dep't of Commerce) get away with it.

I have suggested reforming ICANN - not the pseudo reform that ICANN has gone through. See my notes at http://www.cavebear.com/rw/apfi.htm [cavebear.com]

Globalization is a keyword (2, Insightful)

axxackall (579006) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628362)

Internet is just a part of the global problem that the humankind meets today. Let's face it: the borders between countries are obsolete. The restriction to cross the border based on nationality is against democratic rules. Mega-corporations have already crossed all borders as much as they could at this level of the international laws, but that won't stop them from further international integration. Internet brings very important technological basis for such integration.

At the same time Internet existence is not protected by proper international laws. And now we begin digging much deeper problems. The modern international law system is obsolete.

Recent events in Iraq demonstrate it. One arrogant leader of the most power country ignores all international laws in order to get rid from the other arrogant leader. It's like I am telling to police officer: "don't interfer, I will be dealing with my theaft by myself".

Internet in the same danger. If US govt will begin disconnecting countries from US, while other countries will not support it - there will be lots of problem with traffic, Internet will be bad, but it will survive. But if Mr President will decide that embargo is not a proper mean any more will start a cyber-war or something like that - that will be a beginning of the end of the Internet.

What I am telling, that all attempts to rebuild ICANN will be useless wasting of time and efforts (if not dangerous) until it will be protected by proper system of internation laws, which is broken today with a great help from US President.

Re:Globalization is a keyword (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5628397)

Recent events in Iraq demonstrate it. One arrogant leader of the most power country ignores all international laws in order to get rid from the other arrogant leader. It's like I am telling to police officer: "don't interfer, I will be dealing with my theaft by myself"

The problem is that there is no police officer, only neighbors in a global neighborhood. The UN isn't a police offer. It's more like a home owner's association. When it does take action, it requires other countries ("home owners") to act. It doesn't have it's own army to enforce rules.

The United States is the biggest house in the neighborhood. Someone trampled all over our flowers, and we're just kicking someone who's threatened to mess up our yard out of the neighborhood. The house will still be there, but it'll be sold to a new owner. Some of the neighbors like it, some of them don't.

Re:Globalization is a keyword (1)

axxackall (579006) | more than 11 years ago | (#5629595)

The problem is that there is no police officer, only neighbors in a global neighborhood. The UN isn't a police offer. It's more like a home owner's association. When it does take action, it requires other countries ("home owners") to act. It doesn't have it's own army to enforce rules.

That is exactly my point. But the conclusions are different. I share the point of many countries that such international law enforment must be developed, while you, as well as most of other Americans, think that America is that enforcement.

The United States is the biggest house in the neighborhood. Someone trampled all over our flowers, and we're just kicking someone who's threatened to mess up our yard out of the neighborhood. The house will still be there, but it'll be sold to a new owner. Some of the neighbors like it, some of them don't.

So, what US is doing now is splitting the world onto two campuses again. Welcome back to the Cold War. Exactly as they did in 1945.

Re:Globalization is a keyword (1)

SN74S181 (581549) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628612)

Let's face it: the borders between countries are obsolete. The restriction to cross the border based on nationality is against democratic rules.

Where did you come up with a chestnut like that?

The only thing preserving democratic rule are borders that establish boundaries within which at least some of humanity to govern themselves. There is no trans-national organization that enforces any kind of democracy on the world as a whole. The United Nations is a body with representatives appointed by the various democracies, dictatorships, fiefdoms, etc. of the world.

Your whole notion of a 'global world of freedom enabled by the Internet' is hype that's been sufficently disproven.

Re:Globalization is a keyword (1)

axxackall (579006) | more than 11 years ago | (#5629111)

The only thing preserving democratic rule are borders that establish boundaries within which at least some of humanity to govern themselves.

Your place is in prison where your rules will be very "preserved". Perhaps you had never chance to live in Soviet Union, otherwise you won't be so blind. But I guess that deep inside you care more to preserve your fat ass from the poor people who can flood your country.

There is no trans-national organization that enforces any kind of democracy on the world as a whole.

There is no such organization yet and that's my point - it must be established as soon as possible until it's late. The United Nations is a body with representatives appointed by the various democracies, dictatorships, fiefdoms, etc. of the world.

Alcohol trade rules are different from state to state. In Nevada even prostitution is legal. However you don't close borders between states, do ya? All facts of dictatorship must be solved by the same way as a war crime - using International Crime Court. The fact that such system still doesn't work is thank to US govt who ignores that Court and thus prevent further development of apropriate internatonal laws.

Your whole notion of a 'global world of freedom enabled by the Internet' is hype that's been sufficently disproven.

Don't quote what I haven't told. What I did tell is that the Internet is a part of international life. And thus it demands a support of international laws. Which doesn't work. Thanks to US President.

Re:Globalization is a keyword (1)

SN74S181 (581549) | more than 11 years ago | (#5629692)

Much of what you've typed doesn't make a lot of sense.

People don't and can't live in a democracy if they're not ruled by an elected government. Many parts of the world do not have elected governments. There isn't much, if any, impetus going on in the world today to elect one big world government. Governments consistently become less controllable by the people they govern as they scale to bigger and bigger sizes.

Other than a big cluster of Multinational Corporations controlled by International Capital, there aren't a heck of a lot of people pushing for 'globalization' of the sort you seem to be blurrily advocating.

International laws? Laws passed by what elected body? A bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels???

Re:Globalization is a keyword (1)

axxackall (579006) | more than 11 years ago | (#5630104)

American...

Re:Globalization is a keyword (1)

SN74S181 (581549) | more than 11 years ago | (#5630156)

Um... okay.

Re:Globalization is a keyword (1)

axxackall (579006) | more than 10 years ago | (#5630663)

Do you know him [yahoo.com] ?

Re:ICANN's effort at Empire Building (1)

sjames (1099) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628620)

They will exist exactly as long as the root servers take orders from them and not a moment longer.

What is really needed is a more decentralized structure to hole them in check. I would rather see an organization for each TLD. That way if one gets too out of hand, the damage is limited. Such a split would also emphasize that the internet is decentralized and by nature anti-authoritarian. The leaders of the organizations would be able to plainly see that their authority is limited.

On ICANN and its latest chronicler... (2, Interesting)

lkoetzle (68359) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628813)

Here we have two interesting subjects: 1) the much-lampooned ICANN, and 2) our writer Akash Kapur himself. In 2000, Kapur conducted an interview with author VS Naipaul, the transcript of which is intensely -- and unintentionally -- humorous.

Naipaul tells Kapur that all the questions Kapur has faxed him for the interview are inane. Naipaul further instructs Kapur to go read Naipaul's books instead of wasting the author's time by asking him to repeat himself. Much of this transcript also ran in the UK newspaper "The Guardian" -- I distinctly rememer having hiccups all morning from laughing through my coffee.

Two links on our two interesting subjects:
1) ICANN -- the movie!
http://www.paradigm.nu/icann/icannstage.ht ml

2) The transcript of Kapur's interview with Naipaul:
http://www.akashkapur.com/naipaulint.htm

Re:On ICANN and its latest chronicler... (1)

arkanes (521690) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628904)

Have to give him credit for the journalist integrity to post that, at least.

The first few years of any democracy can be hard (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5627804)

Just look at the United States. The first time through, they put together the Articles of Confederation. After a few years, it was clear that wasn't working. They reorganized the government in the form of the Constitution, and it's worked fairly well since.

Re:The first few years of any democracy can be har (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5628036)

it's worked fairly well since.
Have you seen America lately?

Take a look at the current leadership, and the prospect that America is about to get a visit from any effing terrorist on the entire planet, and decide whether you think it's working "fairly well".

What this country needs is... I don't know. More democracy I guess. Fewer butterfly ballots though. That nice Mr Gore as President would do for a start.

Fact: Middle east is dying (-1, Offtopic)

CausticWindow (632215) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627812)

It is official; Foxnews confirms: middle east is dying One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered middle east community when IDC confirmed that middle east market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Foxnews survey which plainly states that middle east has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. middle east is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Rush Limbaugh to predict middle east's future. The hand writing is on the wall: middle east faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for middle east because middle east is dying. Things are looking very bad for middle east. As many of us are already aware, middle east continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

Iraq is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time Iraq developers Saddam Hussein only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: Iraq is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

Palestine leader Yasser Arafat states that there are 7000 users of Palestine. How many users of Jordan are there? Let's see. The number of Palestine versus Jordan posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 Jordan users. Iran posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of Jordan posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of Iran. A recent article put Iraq at about 80 percent of the middle east market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 Iraq users. This is consistent with the number of Iraq Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of IraqiOil, abysmal sales and so on, Iraq went out of business and was taken over by Halliburton who sell another troubled OS. Now Halliburton is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that middle east has steadily declined in market share. middle east is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If middle east is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. middle east continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, middle east is dead.

Re:Fact: Middle east is dying (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5627828)

stfu

will some moderator troll this dufus?

Re:Fact: Middle east is dying (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5627865)

Get a sense of humor, Frenchie LaFrencherson.

Re:Fact: Middle east is dying (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5627830)

mod this up you humorless fuckwads

Nothing should be offtopic when the topic is ICANN (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5627919)

I'd rather be fucked in the ass by wild monkeys than read another bullshit ICANN thread.

Uhh.. Ohh... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5627818)

ICANN... a organisation(?) most ppl never heard about... authorized by u.s. goverment to take care of the internet development and root(?) server maintenance... blablabla...

Man, why should I care about this shit? If this organisation goes for #1 a f'd nobody will miss them... even if it harms the net structure or something.. we (in our country) have every hardware to keep the net "running".. even if a u.s. company sucked...

Wow. (1)

rice_web (604109) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627819)

Their site is almost as bad as their service.

Re:Wow. (1)

Fishstick (150821) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628066)

Comments concerning the layout, construction and functionality of this site
should be sent to webmaster@icann.org [mailto] .


Why don't you drop 'im a line, then. ;-]

Nostalgia... (5, Funny)

La Temperanza (638530) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627845)

I remember when I used to enter "billing@internic.net" as my e-mail address for every service (before they started requiring confirmation) and signed them up for all the free offers. :)

Mmmm...Fresh Blood... (1)

Chymaera (607989) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627885)

If that means ICANN's blood, then I entirely agree. ;)

I find this amusing... (-1, Flamebait)

c0dedude (587568) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627890)

ICANN != w3c (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5627910)

ICANN has nothing to do with web standards. They're an internet organization that deals with addresses and domain names.

(in)action (5, Insightful)

scubacuda (411898) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627903)

I can remember the first time I started using the Internet my freshman year in college. Wow...here was the perfect manifestation of all my libertarian (then Randroid-ian) ideals. How could unfettered access to information NOT topple over all oppressive regimes?

It took me a long time to realize this, but the Internet qua Internet will NOT change the world for the better.

If you were part of the upper echelon in the Soviet Union, would YOU want democracy? Would you give up the security--your nice apartment, caviar dinners, and KGB contacts--to live in a country where you didn't know what your lot/role in life would be?

Once you look at it this way, everything from the way that closed regimes limit netizens' access to information makes to the way cable and software companies (namely, Microsoft) "act strategically" makes sense.

People/governments/regimes have worked hard to make their way to the top. They're not about to put in place policies or architectures in place that threaten that hegemony.

My question to the /. community is: what do we do to change this? We are arguably the biggest nerd gathering on the planet. Individually we might not have clout, but with the right direction, collectively we might...

Re:(in)action (1)

goosman (145634) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627936)

My question to the /. community is: what do we do to change this? We are arguably the biggest nerd gathering on the planet. Individually we might not have clout, but with the right direction, collectively we might...

Probably nothing. It will all boil down to International Treaties. All the geeks on the planet will be able to do precious little.

I'd love to see it differently however....

Re:(in)action (0, Troll)

HBI (604924) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627957)

Get a gun if you want to have clout, ideas are meaningless, representative republics are the same kind of opiate for the masses that religion once was.

The illusion of public control of its destiny is deceiving.

All the government has ever done in my life is take away, never give. Anything not protected by the Constitution (and some that are) are fair game.

By the time the situation is put aright by courts or legislation, years have passed. As Keynes said, in the long run, we're all dead. Therefore, get a gun. Learn how to use it.

What you should do (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5627962)

Put a dick in your mouth so you shut the fuck up.

I hope you didn't major in philosophy because a rabies infested orangutang can shit something more sensical than your worthless post.

Change What? (1)

budgenator (254554) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628258)

Let's see what does ICANN actualy do, well what does it do that we actualy need?
It assigns numbers, IP numbers that's realy all we need from them. As far as names anyone can do names, it would take the average unix/linux sysadmin what about 15 - 20 minutes to put their own Domain Name Server online? All they have to do is poll other name servers, example someone types in .aol and the root server says to AOL who is this, its no biggie.

The biggest thing that ICANN seems to be doing is promoting an artificial scarcity of domain names, and speculation in those is about as dead as dodo birds. There are plenty of alternative root servers out there. Start making ICANN as irrelavant as possible and I guaranty they change just to protect their turf

Re:(in)action (1)

argoff (142580) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628622)

If you were part of the upper echelon in the Soviet Union, would YOU want democracy? Would you give up the security--your nice apartment, caviar dinners, and KGB contacts--to live in a country where you didn't know what your lot/role in life would be? and then ...

My question to the /. community is: what do we do to change this? We are arguably the biggest nerd gathering on the planet. Individually we might not have clout, but with the right direction, collectively we might...

If you understand freedom, then freedom is not a risk. It is only when you don't care about freedom's and make things like money and lifestyle an end in themselves that you get caught up in the short sited road to failure. Your Soviet upper echlon eample makes that point even more, nobody was safe from being killed for any political reason. In fact, Stalin and Lennon were notorious for killing off close and trusted advisors.

In a way the same thing happened to me with Linux. I bet me career on it, and made it my focus several years ago, inspite of serious ridicule. Other people thought I was crazy, but I knew for a fact that free software was more accountable to free market economics than "commercial" software that at the core relied on artifical copyright monopolies granted by the government. That didn't spare me from being nailed from the dot.com bust, but neither were any of my MSCE friends.

Now that things are picking up, and Linux is 20 times better than it was 5 years ago when I started, and big companies have caught on, my long term future doen't look so bad. So if you really want to minimize the damage done by people who've worked their whole lives for false security at everyone elses expense - and you really want to help them and reach out, than the best thing you can do - is not stop them from falling, but offer to help pick them up again after they fall. Otherwise their beliefs will not have changed, and you will just be feeding the forces that will enentually bring you down with them.

Re:(in)action (1)

andrewski (113600) | more than 10 years ago | (#5630290)

Form the Geek Union. This one won't be administered by the Mafia, though. Imagine how scared shitless authority would be if over 600,000 geeks threatened a general strike. We could wield more power than every lobby group in Congre$$ if we chose to.

Re:(in)action (1)

scubacuda (411898) | more than 10 years ago | (#5630329)

Or...a nerd version of Fight Club. We wreck havoc on the world for our own (dubious) political ends...

[evil laugh] muhahahahahahahaha [/evil laugh]

Re:(in)action (1)

erikdotla (609033) | more than 10 years ago | (#5631521)

You're right. We're a huge group of nerds! We have the power! Collectively, we could do anything, if we only had a little direction and organization to guide us toward a goal! Sure, we all disagree a little on things, but surely a noble cause could be the target that sets a huge nerd tidal wave into action, toppling this oppressive regime! We can do it!

PLEASE. You'd have better luck organizing the sand of an entire beach into a nice tidy pile using a rake.

The only thing hackers can do to change the world is hack. We have to use extreme measures to get anything done in this world. Go shut down the Internet for a few days by ruining ICANN and maybe the government will take notice.

French Girls Menaced by Negro Thugs (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5627930)

To avoid roving gangs of African punks, French girls in the town of Vitry-Sur-Seine disguise themselves as boys before leaving home. Cross-dressing is a precaution against suffering the fate of a teenage girl who was burned alive in a garbage dump by an African youth.

Sohane Benziane, 17, was doused in gasoline and set afire after rebuffing the sexual advances of an 18-year-old African male who had been pursuing her.

Rapes, violence, drug trafficking, and a rise in radical Muslim militancy plague Vitry-Sur-Seine and other dilapidated apartment communities that surround Paris. These high-rise concrete blockhouses, inhabited mostly by African Muslims and other nonwhite immigrants, are a source of much crime and anxiety in France.

Fed and sheltered by a socialist welfare state, the jobless African youth have plenty of leisure time to organize gangs, steal cars, and otherwise wreck havoc around metropolitan Paris.

When not committing crimes, African thugs harass young Muslim women who refuse to wear veils or to dress in traditional fashion.

The French government is falling back on conventional liberal solutions to combat the cultural and racial strife plaguing the country. Counseling centers and improved housing are two ways the deluded French hope to overcome the problems created by nonwhite immigration.

Re:French Girls Menaced by Negro Thugs (-1, Flamebait)

stevejsmith (614145) | more than 11 years ago | (#5627992)

You can read the full text here: http://www.cofcc.org/news.htm I have no idea what compelled me to search for the text, or read the entire thing. But I'd like to know: where do people find these stuff, and who the hell posts it on Slashdot!?

Re:French Girls Menaced by Negro Thugs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5628797)

Well, I guess it would be someone who likes to read the Council of Conservative Citizens' web site. I guess Trent Lott has a lot more time to spam Slashdot now that he's no longer Senate majority leader.

First of all.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5628017)

..ICANN sounded like an authoritarian regime from the start. Or, at the least, a republic.

"and the narrowing possibility that ICANN could represent a new model of governance as indicators that global democracy has failed."

Democracy? I'm not sure it has failed. You see, democracy is just a more polite word for anarchy. I snicker to myself every time I hear someone preaching about how the US brings 'democracy' to people, for example.

What we bring is the glory of Rome's republic. ;)

Err, right, getting back on topic.. The internet is still a democracy. If you don't like ICANN, figure out a better way of doing things. The world will follow.

Failure of standards and control groups is the surest sign that democracy is alive and well, for true democracy answers to none.

So what! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5628084)

This is the fucking internet, go outside for once you lazy fucks!

Re:So what! (0)

mlerner (601733) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628245)

oh yeah well go **** yourself.

ICANN was always a joke (4, Insightful)

aphor (99965) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628088)

The design of the DNS system makes ICANN unnecessary. The whole idea of ICANN was founded by people who did not understand how this was so for the purpose of establishing privilege ( as in from Latin privilegium, a law affecting one person : privus, single, alone + lex, leg-, law ) for certain minorities to exert control over the DNS namespace.

Large corporations and cadres of lawyers are just as happy as the rest of us about domain squatting. They are even less happy about the whole somethingSUCKS.com court decisions which (by interpereting the US Constitution 1st Amendment) allow people to set up very spiffy parody sites to lampoon their hard-fought corporate images. How are they going to get control of this nasty thorn in their side?

The correct way for those people to solve their problem is to "fork" the DNS root and create their own set of root servers supervised by their lawyers. They could then begin boycotting the original root servers' registrars, and require end users to use DNS servers that submit to their authority. The first problem with that is how so many corporations will fail to agree on enough details to let that happen. The second problem is that anyone could selectively forward queries to their servers for some lookups, and forward queries to other peoples' servers for other lookups. Each DNS server decides who to delegate what authority to. Each end-user could theoretically run their own DNS server without ever needing to query a root server.

The bottom line is that DNS is anarchy, but there is a de facto consensus to trust several root server operators to be cool. The first step to accomplishing what the IANA wants to do is to convince people to revoke trust in the existing root servers. Instead, they keep trying to bully the root server operators, who roll their eyes and sigh..

The real risk that the IANA faces is that the DNS root server authority gets institutionalized in a widely publicised and debated way. If they can't weasel their way into control quietly, they risk the door being be slammed in their face by a new consensus formed out of "informed consent". It's like the UN where everybody has a veto, and it is terribly uncertain how the vote will go.

The real reason the ICANN is such a joke is that the tootpaste is out of the tube. People are widely aware of the attempted power grab, and the important people know how futile that is once it is widely known. ICANN would only be allowed to operate if it behaved identically to the current system, which begs the question: why are we fixing it if it isn't broke?

Pay attention to Verisgn.com (who bought NSI). They will attempt to leverage DNS authority with their x509 business. Look at how BIND9 signed-zones are supposed to work. It isn't just ICANN we should be worried about.

Learn PGP keyring management. It is complicated. It is very worthwhile though. The PGP trust management system is our defense. We should seek to protect the right to that system in the Supreme Court of the US under the Bill of Rights.

Re:PGP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5629097)

> The PGP trust management system is our defense.

No.

GPG - http://www.gnupg.org/

- Unlike PGP, GPG is open.
- Unlike PGP, GPG is not owned by a large corporation (Verisign, incidentally, who owns Network Solutions, who in turn owns PGP).
- Unlike PGP, GPG is verifiably secure.

Re:PGP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5631432)

It was my understanding that PGP was now owned by PGP corporation [pgp.com] , which bought the rights to PGP from NAI... Because of this, I don't believe that your second statement is correct anymore.

Re:ICANN was always a joke (1)

FuryG3 (113706) | more than 11 years ago | (#5630187)

If someone forked the DNS is there anything ICANN could do? For example, in the intermediary steps could ICANN deny requests from the "forked" name servers? Lame question, I'm sure, but I'd like to know.

Re:ICANN was always a joke (1)

aphor (99965) | more than 11 years ago | (#5637887)

If ICANN tried to do this (they are a committee of random people who do not run all the root servers), it would require the cooperation of all the root namserver operators. A fork in the DNS authority means some root namserver operators will gladly serivce those requests.

The dissenters would update their root zone to delete NS records pointing to noncooperative root DNS servers, and the root dns servers who got removed from that zone would prolly do the same. The rest of the internet would be split based on who they got their root domain update from.

People would come out of the woodwork to offer hosting for a re-unified DNS because of the confusion that would ensue from forked DNS authority. People would quickly put up DNS servers with "glue" records to choose which root server fork has the right NS records for which domain. It would be a little hacking on the ISC code, but people would have this in distribution within days if not hours.

In laymans terms, DNS would mostly work like it did, after a short hiccup. Some people would get the impression that domains changed hands back-and-forth during the hiccup, but only a few domains would be affected. The vast majority of the people would not understand the controversy. It would look like battling between the parties which swapped apparent control of the affected domains. SOMEBODY would get labelled "hacker" or "rougue".

Lets say you are in a group of people that regularly gets asked obvious questions. Think of it as something like the RGB.txt file in Xwindows. All day long people ask you how much blue is in "LemonChiffon" named color, and you tell them someone else to ask. You refer those trivial queries to other people all day long. The ICANN doesn't pay your salary, but they try (or want) to tell you who and how you can answer those queries. You have your list of people, and you share that list amongst your peers with a handshake agreement: we will all use the same list of who gets referrals for which class of colors. You are completely free to do whatever you want with your list. You have no control over your peers. ICANN has no control over you. Oh, but they whine about it a lot.. "How are we going to make a difference if those guys won't do what we say.. WAAAAAAAA...".

DNS IS ANARCHY THAT WORKS!

Old Gaurd won't go down without a fight. (1)

banzai51 (140396) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628098)

It's not that global democracy won't work, but those with the most to loose from this arraingment didn't just keel over and let it happen. Now that it might take "work" to make the vision happen, most are bailing on the process.

Global democracy cannot work for obvious reasons (0, Flamebait)

ShatteredDream (636520) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628129)

Those of us that consider freedom to be important and the democratic process only one of many means to that end are not surprised by this. Global governance on a world as ethnically diverse as this one is almost innately authoritarian. The reason that the US model of representative republican rule works so well is because there are no fundamental differences between the cultures of the 50 states. The EU's and UN's proponents in some cases don't understand that, but largely don't care because they have "more important" goals like knocking the US down a peg.

I rarely agree with anything put out by CBN (Christian Broadcasting Network), but one of their commentators said something like this about one world government: "It will be run by rich elitists who consider it their so-called burden to make the 'tough choices' for the ignorant masses." That describes the situation perfectly. We are ignorant peasants at best, savages at worst to most of the global elite. Don't kid yourselves that global government is possible on Earth.

This reminds me of the so-called international law. Law means that it applies to everyone. A treaty doesn't work that way. The Geneva Conventions and all that jazz aren't true law, they're just that, conventions. If the US never signed them, the US would not have to follow them. The international law has always been a slightly more civilized version of the "law of the jungle." It is just the most powerful imposing their vision of a better world on the rest. Those that complain about the US not giving a rat's ass about the UN, why should we? The UN has libya and the Sudan in prominent positions including the "human rights commission." A terrorist state and a genocidal state respectively!!!!

Give up on the idea of international law and government. It is better that every war criminal get a slap on the wrist in their own country (if it's an American, they'll probably get executed in the US depending on the offense) than have people pulled before a global government. We live in a world where American Conservatives are the progressives and the international socialists the reactionaries. If Saddamn got tried in an American court, he'd have 2x the rights he'd have under the World *cough*Kangaroo*cough* Court. Isn't it ironic that the so-called "progressives," the left, have created an unaccountable world court that gives less rights than the judiciary created by the American right? Of course it isn't, the concept of a court is still new in the left's mind. We should applaud their efforts, it's a step up from gulags, logais and NAZI concentation camps.

More regulation of ICANN is necessary. It should be forced open no matter what is required for that to happen. ICANN is a good place to start with dismantling the unaccountable global government in the making.

nice post (1)

zogger (617870) | more than 11 years ago | (#5629224)

--nice post. I totally agree on a world government ostensibly "for the people" but in reality run by rich elitists. Plenty of evidence for that now to see. Sounds like one of those "sounds medium OK in theory,but it'll never work" deals. I don't see any world government working either.

Would you care to expound more on the central issue? How would you attempt to regulate ICANN for the better? Or, abandon it to several internets? That would be more my choice. Granted, confusion and more than a little anarchy, but it's the way I can see it going in the future, more of several large multi content providers-something like super AOL type nets,pure commercial, you purchase packages from them, phone, entertainment, information, etc -Iactually see that coming pretty soon- then perhaps an "open source" freebie net or nets. Possibly another one based on always changing wireless and wired meshing networks as well,based around P2P and like bittorrent styled technolgies, so at least several different flavors of "nets", along with the VPNs of course.

Routing you would have to pick your range of DNS servers and protocols,as you surf and 'do stuff', perhaps new prefixes in the url? With perhaps only the major routing being some sort of standard, with IP traffic destination "interpreters" built in to translate these morphing and conflictive addresses?

Interested to hear your views on that topic in general.

Re:Global democracy cannot work for obvious reason (1)

cranos (592602) | more than 11 years ago | (#5630046)

"It will be run by rich elitists who consider it their so-called burden to make the 'tough choices' for the ignorant masses."

Sounds like a certain Super power at the moment, not mentioning any names of course.

Seriously though what world do you live on and what the hell are you smoking. You are saying that the rule of law is a bad thing?? Shit in that case its militias all the way then.

Lets get something straight, most of the developed world and a fair chunk of the developing world thinks the International Court and the rule of law is a good idea, the list of the ones who don't make interesting reading. Hmm let's see the US (big surprise there), China (those funny old chinese, you should see what they do to Falun Gong members) and others.

You know from where I sit all I can see is America trying to set itself up as the bully of the school yard. It's disappointing becuase for the last decade America was starting to come out of its shell and participate as a genuine world citizen, but now its back to John Wayne diplomacy and fuck the rest of us.

Okay, I've got the fresh fawn's blood right here. (1, Offtopic)

mcglk (10840) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628173)

Everyone hold hands. This spell is going to be creepy, but it's got to be done. Whatever you do, don't touch the sacred vessel---static discharge, y'know. Everyone's shovels ready? Ew. I just horked up Esther Dyson. Okay, here we go. Remember, as soon as the spell's complete, we go dig up Jon Postel.

Fresh blood (1)

guacamolefoo (577448) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628239)

Why ICANN Needs Fresh Blood: A Deeper View

Clearly, this has nothing to do with internet governance. I don't need to RTFA to know that it is a bizarro Barbarian at the Gates moment where Carl Icahn kicks his heroin habit with help from Keith Richards and Lestat and then goes on to do a leveraged buyout of AOL.

GF.

Really dumb (1)

t0ny (590331) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628371)

Kapur lists cancelled at-large elections, the authoritarianism and secrecy of ICANN discussion, and the narrowing possibility that ICANN could represent a new model of governance as indicators that global democracy has failed."

Sounds like someone else purchased too much into the dot.bomb foolishness. Come on, ICANN as a government model? A failure of democracy? He should stop smokin whatever he is smokin.

Hold on... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5628529)

A few years ago everyone here on Slashdot was all happy about ICANN. Because they all hated the "evil" Network Solutions. I thought ICANN was a bad idea, but everyone was so against Network Solutions they couldn't see it. Now you have to live with it.

icann... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5628547)

and democracy? haha, that`s like bush and democracy... they just don`t fit together...

-------
Starwars Galaxies [starwars-galaxies.com]

Nolo Contendre (2, Interesting)

inode_buddha (576844) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628836)

Meaning, "No argument" with the idea that ICANN needs fresh blood. However, I do question the idea that a global democracy is even possible, due mainly to global corporate interests and not geo-political interests.

And no, I *didn't* RTFA.

Why even bother with ICANN (3, Interesting)

coaxial (28297) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628837)

Everyone seems to know that ICANN is ineffective and corrupt, so why do people even bother with them. What would happen if a (suitably large enought) group simply refused to recognize ICANN's authority? I'm thinking something organized along the lines of realtime blacklist.

"Fresh" blood? (1)

error0x100 (516413) | more than 11 years ago | (#5628976)

Oh, you mean NEW blood.

Sorry, but sometimes you gotta nitpick the English usage..

The U.S. Government Should Take it Back (1)

HighOrbit (631451) | more than 11 years ago | (#5629491)

ICANN should just go away and the U.S. Government should take direct control. The internet in its earliest incarnations was funded and created by and for the use of the U.S. Government through DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Project). The interet is now essential to the American economy and the economy is a matter of national security. At least half of internet traffic runs through Northern Virigia alone. The USA made it, we administer most of it, and it is essential to our well-being. Consequently, the Amercian people ought to have control of something created in their name and with their tax dollars. Everybody else is just a guest that we are nice enough to accomodate. For these reasons, no private corporations and no foreigners should have any binding vote on something created by and essential to the well-being of Americans. Let the assignment of addresses, the root domain, and even TLDs be run by the public. And while we are at it, we should take the assignment of telephone numbers away from private corporations too because all the baby bells have managed to screw that up with those lovely "overlay" area codes.

Re:The U.S. Government Should Take it Back (1)

cranos (592602) | more than 11 years ago | (#5630010)

And now a reasoned and well though out response to this comment:

rack off nimwad

And now for my supporting arguments. The Internet is no longer an American owned idea. It now belongs to the world, and as such any move by the Americans to try and regain any sort of control they had over it would probably result in the US being cut out of the picture.

It is now the year 2003, we have moved beyond the original project that was the ancestor of the Internet, while it would be a pain to replace the hardware we would lose by cutting off the states it is not exactly impossible.

In closing, can you please take your jingoistic prattlings and kindly place them where the sun does not shine, the Internet is not just Americas playground anymore.

Re:The U.S. Government Should Take it Back (1)

rastos1 (601318) | more than 10 years ago | (#5630326)

On the other hand, US should give up using electricity, since that was not invented in US. That's about it.

Re:The U.S. Government Should Take it Back (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | more than 10 years ago | (#5630621)

or computers for that matter, since the clever old brits invented them. Just think if the descendants of Alan Turing (or the british government) had a patent on The Computer...

Re:The U.S. Government Should Take it Back (1)

mattax (251921) | more than 10 years ago | (#5630983)

Cool. You do that. And watch the rest of the world (and American anti-proprietry types) start their own network.

If you want the American control of the net to remain, just keep things the way they are.

Anybody got any tea hancy? (1)

cranos (592602) | more than 11 years ago | (#5630062)

Seeing as this is Domain Resolution without Representation.

Why they need fresh blood? (2, Funny)

rastos1 (601318) | more than 10 years ago | (#5630330)

Because there is only ~80 comments to this article 20 hours after posting?

Relocate ICANN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5630519)

Relocate them to Iraq, there's plenty of fresh blood

Incompetent Corrupt Asinine Numbskull Nincompoops (1)

Garry Anderson (194949) | more than 10 years ago | (#5630571)

Firstly, I presume you know where ICANN money is going - to their Lawyers, JONES, DAY, REAVIS & POGUE [slashdot.org] .

Next - I have no doubt that ICANN are corrupt - that they violate Trademark and Competition Law with Sunrise Process and UDRP.

Fact: They know how to identify all registered trademarks on the Internet - yet hide this.

The solution has been ratified by honest lawyers.

More facts for you:

You can legally use any word, words or initials to start a new business without registering a trademark - providing you are not passing off, of course.

Take for example the word 'apple'. It is legally used by thousands of businesses - large and small all over the world. Indeed, it is impossible that they all register themselves as trademarks - they are bound to conflict with many others, being confusingly similar. In my local phone book alone, there are at least five using this word - two garages (seems not connected), a car centre, fruit growers and a decorating firm.

It is trademark overreach to prevent all these businesses from using their name in commerce.

Also - why prevent people using any words for personal sites? Everybody has legitimate rights to use ANY words for ANY legal purpose they wish - true or false?

Trademark Law is UNAMBIGUOUS - a mark is allowed for SPECIFIC goods or service ('class') in SPECIFIC country.

A protected TLD could identify all registered trademarks - like the symbol of a R in circle - ®

Most businesses share the same trademark word with others e.g. Apple is used by tobacco and computer company.

Which do you think is Apple Computers website in the US - if .reg was introduced?

apple.tobacco.us.reg
apple.computer.us.reg

Therefore, apple.com could be directed to apple.computer.us.reg to serve as certificate of authentication and fuction as directory.

Please visit my protest site [wipo.org.uk] - not connected with the corrupt United Nations WIPO.org.

Logically speaking, a dupe (1)

dacarr (562277) | more than 10 years ago | (#5632202)

It's not a dupe of another article on Slashdot, but speaking logically, it's kind of redundant. We all kno that ICANN needs fresh blood, policies, ideas, ideals, morals, intelligence....

Data Escrow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5633160)

Check out

http://www.rdearchive.com

And

http://www.icann.org/escrow/registrar-escrow-08n ov 01.htm

Read up on the data escrow iniative and then you'll understand why ICANN is neccessary.
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