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Mozilla Project Turns 5

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the child-prodigy dept.

Mozilla 284

GreyWolf3000 writes "As this notice in tinderbox shows, Mozilla turns five years old today. A great testament to the ability of open software models debunking the myth that while the community can hack a kernel or compiler together, we can't build a large scale project designed for everyday folks to use. The trunk is feature frozen for the upcoming alpha release for 1.4. Can't wait to see what's in store next!" Read on for another odometer reading -- Mozilla's 200,000th bug report, perhaps just as auspicious a landmark.

zzxc writes "The 200,000th bug has been filed in Mozilla's bugzilla, MozillaZine reports. It was filed at 5:11pm EDT. (21:11GMT) The bug, which is already 'verified invalid,' is 'MailNews crashes after extremely long 'joke of the day' html spam mail.' This comes on the 5 year anniversery of the release of Netscape's source code, also reported by MozillaZine. Bug 100000 was opened on 9/16/01 after three years of development, while bug 200000 comes in less than 19 months from the previous milestone."

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Wishing Mozilla well... (0, Flamebait)

ChaoticChaos (603248) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634214)

I wish Mozilla well, but Opera 7 is an upgrade from any browser. ...and IE is the "cheap seats" of surfing.

Re:Wishing Mozilla well... (1)

damu (575189) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634269)

Couldn't agree more, Moz is great, but Opera is hands down the fastest, most configurable, lightest browser I have ever dealt with. Perhaps a joint venture could emerge, I shall call him Mozera.

Re:Wishing Mozilla well... (5, Informative)

sconest (188729) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634336)

Most configurable ? Have you ever seen the about:config page in Mozilla ? ;)

Re:Wishing Mozilla well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634517)

Have you ever, ummm... tried to rearrange the frickin toolbars in Mozilla? Impossible :-)

Yeah, it only took 5 years ... (-1, Flamebait)

jkujawa (56195) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634230)

Half of a decade.
A software company that took this long to do something would have been long dead by now.

Re:Yeah, it only took 5 years ... (0)

Bryan Weatherly (311991) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634254)

A software company that took this long to do something would have been long dead by now.

Is this a praise or an insult for Mozilla/open-source?

Re:Yeah, it only took 5 years ... (1)

giel (554962) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634280)

I should have asked that question before I repsonded, or better, waited for the answer...

Yeah, it only took 5 years. (0, Flamebait)

giel (554962) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634255)

Uh, and how long did - or will - it take Microsoft to release a descent operating system?

Re:Yeah, it only took 5 years. (1)

ChaoticChaos (603248) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634298)

Actually, Windows 3.1, 95 and 98 were all OS "descents". ;-)

Re:Yeah, it only took 5 years. (0, Offtopic)

giel (554962) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634318)

s/sc/c/

Wow... (3, Funny)

zzzmarcus (183118) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634233)

That's only 109 bugs a day! Just goes to show you open source software IS less buggy than commercial!

5 years? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634235)

And all they have to show for it is that bloated pile of dogshit for a browser?

Oh well, I guess linux is what, 14? And it's still a monolithic kernel that needs to be rewritten for every new hardware advance.

Don't forget.... (3, Funny)

I_am_Rambi (536614) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634239)

The kitchen sink [about] that is now also included in Mozilla. Story here [slashdot.org] .

Re:Don't forget.... (1)

sconest (188729) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634270)

Nope. It's not in yet.

Re:Don't forget.... (1)

gr0ngb0t (410427) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634344)

Just to clarify that the kitchen sink is not actually included in mozilla...

from the linked story Please note that this is not actually included in the browser package, so it doesn't add to mozilla's bloat. Instead, about:kitchensink directs the user to the xml document on mozilla's website

Don't forget that Slashdot != reality (3, Informative)

BZ (40346) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634359)

There is no kitchen sink in Mozilla and there will not be in the foreseeable future. Read the bug.

Don't forget that Slashdot == OLD reality (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634381)

By the time Slashdot got around to posting the kitchen sink article I submitted, it was already rejected by drivers...

Re:Don't forget.... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634361)

As said by jesus_x@mozillanews.org in that story... (reposted as AC)

"Look, this got way too much coverage. I'm the originator of the bug and the sink. The r= and sr= were removed until someone fixes the patches so this builds only in Mozilla. about:kitchensink will not work in ANY Mozilla distribution yet. Nor will it unles it's fixed.

As for IE sucking a log on this, well, it's 100% valid XHTML and CSS with decent DOM use, so I'm not surprised IE won't view it."

Rejected? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634247)

My 2nd part of this article shows up as rejected, even though it was obviously used.

Also, here's a link [mozilla.org] to the 200,000th bug... it should work from developers.slashdot.org.

Sorry (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634249)

But mozilla just sucks for real browsing!
I use Opera for Win32 and konqueror for X/KDE. Galeon used to be great but it unfortunatley sunk.

-1, flamebait.

pre-emptive phoenix question (5, Interesting)

weebler (661013) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634251)

"But what's happened to Phoenix?" I hear you ask.
0.6 is meant to be released RSN, they're going to announce the new name shortly [mozilla.org] , in fact.

Just have some patience, and hopefully it'll be worth it!

Re:pre-emptive phoenix question (1)

obotics (592176) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634415)

Phoenix is a great browser. The milestone releases are bug driven, not date driven. In other words, the milestone will not be released until all of the bugs targeted for that release are fixed. To see the list of open bugs targeted for 0.6, see this list [mozilla.org] . Currently, the Phoenix developers are estimating an April release.

*sigh* Do you remember the good old days (1)

rutledjw (447990) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634529)

When mozilla was 100%, pure, un-cut vaporware? Everyone (including myself) looked forward to it with stary-eyed hope. I have to admit that I didn't think much would come of it. I was also kinda annoyed with the "kitchen sink" scenario of mozilla, although otherwise I liked the tabbed browsing and cookie & pop-up blocking.

then came Phoenix. Much smaller, I think somewhat faster and it works with sites that mozilla (for whatever reason, I don't know) wouldn't work with - First USA online [firstusa.com] was my personal pet peeve.

Just have some patience, and hopefully it'll be worth it!

I think .05 is already worth it. I haven't really run into many issues personally. What's new in 0.6?

Posted using Phoenix 0.5 / Linux (RH 7.3)

back to work...

Failure? (5, Insightful)

Musashi Miyamoto (662091) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634252)

This project has proven several things about large scale open source projects:

- Open source doesnt necessarily mean "instant development". It took over a year before anything useful came of the project.

- Just because you release something as open source, doesnt mean that thousands will flock and provide free development. Though thousands did flock, as soon as they saw that the code wasnt nearly usable, they gave up immediately. But, now that there is a small core of developers working on it, it is a useful product.

- Now that it has made some progress, it is more difficult for a closed-source company to compete with it. It exists, and will be difficult to eliminate... There is no company to go out of business to cause Mozilla to disappear.

Re:Failure? (2, Insightful)

damu (575189) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634302)

I think this can be said about most open source programs, they will take longer to be designed, developed, and distributed. A lot of these projects are not being chased by hard datelines, downsizing, higher up pressure. These projects are most for the love of open source, and most importantly the availability of time from the coders.

Cool.. (1)

nother_nix_hacker (596961) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634256)

It was about then I started to build it! :)

So, um, yeah (-1, Flamebait)

krog (25663) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634259)

Five years.

How about releasing an IE-killer sometime?

Re:So, um, yeah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634277)

they did a long time ago, as someone already stated. IE is the cheap seats in surfing

Re:So, um, yeah (1)

ChaoticChaos (603248) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634282)

http://www.opera.com

Seriously.

Re:So, um, yeah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634296)

If opera didn't render like complete crap still, it would be useful. Sure its fast and looks fruity and easy to use, but a good majority of pages I see look great in IE and Mozilla yet extremely crappy in Opera, almost as if Opera is trying to emulate the NS4 rendering style.

Re:So, um, yeah (1)

Linux-based-robots (660980) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634444)

http://www.konqueror.org http://www.apple.com/safari Seriously. Do you work for Opera Software or something? Your other post was also a plug for Opera. Opera is proprietary software, which I'll never use since I value my freedom. Even the "free" (as in beer) version comes with a huge frickin' banner ad built into it, which is a true sign of scumware. It also isn't the fastest browser anymore, and has never been the most capable. And Mozilla is an IE killer in my opinion. It has some great features than IE lacks such as popup blocking and image blocking. It just isn't my absolute favorite (though still great!)

Re:So, um, yeah (4, Interesting)

Yosho (135835) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634555)

http://www.apple.com/safari

Where's the non-Mac version?

Opera is proprietary software, which I'll never use since I value my freedom.

That's your choice, but I don't understand how somebody making proprietary software infringes on your freedom.

Even the "free" (as in beer) version comes with a huge frickin' banner ad built into it, which is a true sign of scumware.

The banner is only "huge" if you're running at 640x480... And it's not scumware, either; the browser reports no information about your computer to Opera. You can also customize what types of banners are shown; in fact, I have a friend who paid for Opera and actually keeps the banner on because he frequently sees banners for products he's interested in.

It also isn't the fastest browser anymore, and has never been the most capable.

I can't say about Safari, since I can't use it, but Opera 7 is still the fastest browser I've used, and 6 is only marginally slower. "Capable" is a relative term, but I've yet to see another browser that has features such as integrated mouse gestures (gotta have a plugin for Mozilla), a quick-preference menu (pressing F12 brings up a list of the most handy preferences), and an easy way to fake the browser ID string (possible in Mozilla only if you're willing to manually edit config files).

It also has better user-defined CSS support than other browsers I've seen. It even comes with a number of pre-defined CSS layouts that do interesting things such as emulate text-only browsers, outline structural elements on a page, remove tables, hide only non-linking images, and so forth. Also, in the event that it crashes, it can re-open all the tabs you had open previously (I believe one of the Mozilla offshoots can do this, but I haven't seen any other browser).

Re:So, um, yeah (1)

Eslyjah (245320) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634326)

How about releasing an IE-killer sometime?

I think that's exactly what Phoenix [mozilla.org] is. Everyone I've introduced to Phoenix has adopted it, including a few non-techies in their late-40s. Pop-up blocking/whitelisting and tabbed browsing are "killer" features, and IE will eventually adopt them or face a serious reduction in usage.

The Mozilla suite is great and all, but, IMO, the primary benefit of the project is as a codebase for other projects, such as Phoenix, Camino, Minotaur/Thunderbird, etc.

But no "common people" use Mozilla (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634262)

Sorry, but very few "normal" people use Mozilla. It's the geek world (including windoze geeks) at this point...

And it still is slow.

Re:But no "common people" use Mozilla (1)

hhawk (26580) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634426)

Isn't Netscape 7.02 based on Mozilla? Ok not the most popular of browsers but still in reasonably wide use.

Re:But no "common people" use Mozilla (1)

neurostar (578917) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634535)

Sorry, but very few "normal" people use Mozilla. It's the geek world (including windoze geeks) at this point...

But it is gaining more widespread acceptance. I've converted a couple people in the past few weeks. And I'm sure more will follow. Pop-up blocking is the major selling point so far.

neurostar

Re:But no "common people" use Mozilla (1)

grasshoppa (657393) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634553)

Well, I don't know what normal is, but I'm converting all my clients to it. So that'll make 50-100 computers using it. I wouldn't call it slow, it's nice and zippy on my 1gig t-bird. Hasn't crashed once, and I'm doing quite a few odd things with it. *shrug*

Community or company? (5, Insightful)

m00nun1t (588082) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634263)

"...debunking the myth that while the community can hack a kernel or compiler together, we can't build a large scale project designed for everyday folks to use..."
Not wanting to rain on their parade, as I agree that Mozilla is a great project, but isn't the only reason they have succeeded building a "large scale project" because of the significant backing of one company (Netscape/AOL)? While the community certainly had a very significant contribution, I think we might be giving it a little more credit than it is due.

Bloat bloat bloat bloat bloat.... (0, Troll)

Bonker (243350) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634265)

I'd much rather use Phoenix [mozilla.org] . I mean, really, what serious chatter uses an in-browser IRC client?

Moz may be good for the public, but I'm glad that I can get the same Gecko quality in a lite-sized package.

Now if only they'd release a .6 milestone.

Re:Bloat bloat bloat bloat bloat.... (1)

trippcook (529339) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634348)

It's as easy as unchecking the "Chatzilla" box on install, man. YOu can install the browser alone and, for my money, it rocks Pheonix. Phoenix is buggy, and many, many, many of the preferences still aren't available (except as manual hacks). Sure, I don't mind getting down and dirty with my software, but my parents and my girlfriend (whom I moved over to Mozilla) wouldn't be into that.

Besides, I'm sure most people have a system nowadays that will barely register the tiny fraction of a second or the small bit of RAM that Phoenix saves them.

Re:Bloat bloat bloat bloat bloat.... (1)

nelsonal (549144) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634431)

I've been using both for a few months now, as just browsers, nothing additional for Moz, and it seems like the nice things about Mozilla outweigh the speed of Phoenix. I like them both, quite a bit, it has completely replaced IE on my Windows box, but Mozilla just seems more polished. I'm sure Phoenix will rapidly improve, but it just doesn't seem like it offers much of an advantage. If I were still on my old Pentium Laptop, I might have a different opinion, but for now, I'm sticking with mozilla.

Which makes me...uh-oh... (4, Funny)

Otter (3800) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634271)

It seems like it was just yesterday I was sitting at this desk, reading about it on Slashdot (Over 50 comments! Wow, Taco, your site has really taken off!).

Ohmigod, where the hell has my life gone?!?!?!?!?!? I'm still even using the same freaking monitor!

Right (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634287)

A great testament to the ability of open software models debunking the myth that while the community can hack a kernel or compiler together, we can't build a large scale project designed for everyday folks to use.

Because it only takes 4 years to come up with a quasi-working release, whereas a company could do it in 1 or less? Yeah, great testament.

5 years and version 1.3 (0, Troll)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634291)

Pretty impressive for just a browser don't you say?

I wonder if any Gnu/Hurd code is in there?

Re:5 years and version 1.3 (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634534)

Here is my web browser version 311.3.7
I wrote version 0.1 two days ago

main () {}

With that high a version number it's obviously superior to IE, Mozilla and Opera
Use it now!

Re:5 years and version 1.3 (2, Insightful)

jaavaaguru (261551) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634559)

I agree. Much better than having the difference between version 6 and version 7 being significantly less than the difference between version 4 and version 6.

Seriously, it's like a race to see who can have the highest version number sometimes. That doesn't impress me. This is almost as bad as the MHz myth. Internet Explorer is still at version 6, and people like it.

Funny... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634292)

It takes about 5 years to load for me in Windows.

Not really much to say (1)

RLiegh (247921) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634299)

outside of: "Tabbed browsing r0}{!!!"

I'm l33t (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634305)

I managed to post anonymously. Suck it taco!

Celebrate by converting people (4, Interesting)

PovRayMan (31900) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634308)

Lets see who have I converted...

My Dad. Hated popups. Instead of giving him a popup blocker for IE I just installed Mozilla for him and switched his Outlook to Mozilla Mail/News. It did a fine job of importing his contact list. He got nimda through an email which infected his machine when he was using Outlook, so I explained to him that with MozMail he'd be ok. After several months use he loves it. No more bad popups for him while browsing, and email has been just fine.

That's my only personal success story, maybe if I got out more often ;-). I did turn a few people online to Phoenix and Mozilla with some luck though. I guess it's easier to convert those you personally know... so go celebrate 5 years and convert some more people over!

Re:Celebrate by converting people (1)

trippcook (529339) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634393)

I know what you mean. My parents, my friend in med school, my girlfriend, my sister. All of them gave me the "Why should I?" bit and griped when certain pages wouldn't load right. They suspected I was screwing them over with my personal techno-experimentation side. MOstly, they stayed for the popup blocking. Now, esp. with Tabbrowser Extensions [sakura.ne.jp] installed, none of them would ever go back to IE in a million years. Similar success with Eudora [eudora.com] , I must say.

But, I agree with you 100%! Keep turning people on to it!

Re:Celebrate by converting people (1)

SquadBoy (167263) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634434)

Various friends and family members and many people at work.

When I first got here there where several websites that people had been having problems with and had been blaming "the network". Well of course on my first day the first thing I did was install Mozilla. After that we where testing with the problem child websites and for whatever reason Mozilla worked *much* better than IE, no one before me had thought of testing with it. With that wedge in the door I started testing with and promoting Mozilla every chance I get. We have gone from a shop that developed only for IE and for the most part only used IE to a shop where Mozilla is included in the official image from MIS.

Yes I am proud of that one.

Re:Celebrate by converting people (1, Informative)

His name cannot be s (16831) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634492)

BULLSHIT.

Nimda is not transmitted thru email. It's a Worm which is solely propigated via unsecured/unpactched IIS installations.

Mayhap you should turn off IIS and/or patch his machine before he gets nimda again.

Re:Celebrate by converting people (1)

PovRayMan (31900) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634577)

Thanks for calling bullshit, but I must be mistaken then. He DID in fact get a virus through email, nimda was the first thing that sounded familiar though. Whatever it was, it was one of those "popular" (read: highly infected around the world) email trojan/virus things.

He doesn't run IIS on his machine, it's just a simple desktop he uses to surf the web, do some work on, and do email.

Re:Celebrate by converting people (2, Interesting)

EvilTwinSkippy (112490) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634619)

I'm a network administrator.

I run a network of 300 workstations and 10 Linux servers. IIS is a dirty word, and no installations are allowed to exist. Indeed, it has NEVER been installed or activated.

I spent most of last week cleaning Nimda A and E off the network after my dipshit users double clicked on an attachment that spread through the network like a disease, over the file sharing system.

Oh no. It's not spread through email. It's spread through stupidity. (And network shares.)

(On a side note, I do clean attachments out of email. These numbnuts were using an outside email provider.)

Re:Celebrate by converting people (2, Informative)

Grelli (98061) | more than 11 years ago | (#5634633)

I call double bullshit!

Symantec [symantec.com] seems to think differently than you as to how nimda spreads itself.

Re:Celebrate by converting people (1)

megazoid81 (573094) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634502)

OTOH, Mozilla's performance is abysmal on Windows. It takes long to start up and responds slowly to mouse clicks. This is the case not only with my computer but also that of my friends. I get instant response and rendering from IE. It could well be that Windows somehow hampers Mozilla's functioning. Or it could just be that the XUL/JS combination in Mozilla's UI needs to be speeded up. I wish I could use Mozilla with the same speed and for the same purposes that I use it on Linux, but I have no idea why performance is such an issue.

I would like to have success stories similar to yours above. I have asked my ('doze-using) friends to use Mozilla, but they say that Netscape 6/7, which is based on the same code, works faster and has the same perks (such as popup blocking), so they have no incentive to switch. Does anyone here have similar experiences with Netscape 6/7 performing better than Mozilla on a Windows machine?

What would you think are the biggest incentives to use Mozilla vs. newer Netscapes for ordinary end-users (i.e. not open-source zealots)?

Re:Celebrate by converting people (1)

flacco (324089) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634605)

Lets see who have I converted...


About 300 people in our department :-)

Re:Celebrate by converting people (1)

EvilTwinSkippy (112490) | more than 11 years ago | (#5634643)

My wife is a computer tutor, specializing in Seniors. Usually the first thing she'll do in install Mozilla.

Between blocking popups, and making the web not look like any other window, it seems to be a lot easier for older folks to use. Most of her clients are loaded and call her after being completely stumped by XP, so performance is rarely an issue.

Birthday Cake (1)

MMaestro (585010) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634309)

What kind of a cake would a computer program want? Strawberry flavor?

Re:Birthday Cake (1)

binaryDigit (557647) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634398)

What kind of a cake would a computer program want? Strawberry flavor?

It wouldn't want a cake, it'd want a cookie of course :) (and no, I'm not referring to a browser cookie either).

Happy here. (2, Insightful)

jlrowe (69115) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634319)

I see some negative comments, and I guess I expect some here. But I am quite pleased with Mozilla. It has some nice features, and it has them for free. Spam filtering, pop-up stopper, and on and on.

The fact is, I needed a browser and email client that is *more* than spartan to replace what I was using, and for mail that was an OS/2 program. With all that Mozilla Mail has, the OS/2 program still has a feature or two I'd like to see added to Mozilla.

But the bigger thing is that for Microsoft to be displaced to any degree, the software that does it *has* to be blessed with good features. I has to be more than spartan. And like IE, which really isn't free, Mozilla not only gives the impression of free, but *is* free. And 'free' is also required for sucess.

5 years, and no crash free browser? (1)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634323)

A great testament to the ability of open software models debunking the myth that while the community can hack a kernel or compiler together, we can't build a large scale project designed for everyday folks to use.
Don't get me wrong, I really like Mozilla since it's finally become 1.0, and having switched from IE I wouldn't go back. But (and here's the catch) it still crashes on me a few times a week. After 5 years you'd think they could make a program that's actually stable.

I keep hoping the bugs will be fixed in the next release, but so far no joy. The biggest feature I'd like to see is stability. Type ahead find is a really cool feature, but I'd trade it in a minute if the damn program didn't crash every couple days.

Re:5 years, and no crash free browser? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634485)

Most of Mozilla features in my opinion are stupid, sorry. (Read: _Personal_ opinion)
I'd like to see less "kitchen-sinks", skinning-crap, etc.. and LESS footprint..
I could say it's quite stable here.. its' major problem is the memory usage.. sluggish behavior.. major leakage..
Apart from that.. its the nicest browser around :) ..and oh.. "200.000" bugs? I hope it hits 300.000 next month, it means it's being widely used, so people are really contributing (read: testing). :)

The sluggish behavior of mozilla plagues my favorite IDE.... you know.. running 2 mozillas isn't funny at all.. it gets worse when one of them is based on a older version of moz.. uh.urhghhh.. But it's worth the pain. :)

Da-lhe Mozilla!

Slashdot staffers arrested in Michigan riot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634337)

EAST LANSING, Mich. -- Michigan State basketball fans overturned four cars, tipped vending machines and set fires in trash bins after the Spartans lost in the NCAA Tournament.

Officers in riot gear dispersed the crowd using tear gas. Eight people were arrested on charges of disorderly conduct, six of them Michigan State students. The remaining two arrested claimed they were "editors" for the popular Slashdot web site based in Holland, Michigan.

The damage occurred between 8 p.m. and 10:30 p.m. Sunday near the university's administration building, where about 2,000 people had gathered.

They had tied up traffic earlier in the evening on Grand River Avenue, which divides the campus and downtown, said Lt. Kevin Daley of the East Lansing Police Department.

The violence followed Michigan State's 85-76 loss to Texas on Sunday in the South Regional final in San Antonio.

University officials said they would discipline the students who were arrested. "This is just outrageous," Michigan State president Peter McPherson told The State News by phone Sunday night from Texas. "I was just truly disheartened."

Brad Dizik, a freshman from Farmington Hills, said the large number of police officers encouraged students to misbehave.

"They entice us to go even more crazy," Dizik said. "I'm just standing here watching people."

After the Spartans lost to Duke in the 1999 Final Four, 132 people, including 71 Michigan State students, were arrested. Damages to the city and campus totaled more than $250,000.

AP NEWS The Associated Press News Service

Re:Slashdot staffers arrested in Michigan riot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634486)

Ooh, this troll deserves mod points for originality.

Remember when? (1)

Blaine Hilton (626259) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634341)

I remember back then when Netscape was a powerful company and had more users then MSIE. Those were the days...

Re:Remember when? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634523)

Yeah, Netscape 4 with a CSS implementation designed by a retarted fuck-monkey.

Slow progress (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634349)

5 years and they haven't even reached 1.4? In 5 years Microsoft went from 3.0 to 95. Pick up the pace, people.

Also Al Gores B-Day (3, Funny)

Dajur (168872) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634352)

He must have invented mozilla to celebrate.

Boy, that joke's not tired yet (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634371)

About as funny as jokes about Clinton's infidelity, or cigars, or blue dresses.

Mozilla is a development model failure (5, Interesting)

DeadSea (69598) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634357)

Mozilla is a great success, but it is also a great failure. When Netscape first open sourced Mozilla development they were disallusioned. They assumed that developers would flock to the open source development effort. Netscape was looking to win the browser war without spending any money. Not being able to compete against a free product, they were looking at ways to make their product free. It didn't work. Mozilla has only succeeded today becouse Netscape (now AOL) continues to pour money into the project. Most development on the browser is still done by paid employees.

Mozilla's successes have almost all been side effects. An open bug database is one of the most revolutionary development practices that I have ever seen. Because of Bugzilla, Mozilla has far more useful features than it otherwise would have. If users hadn't been able to get through to developers I doubt that Mozilla would have popup and image blocking.

Mozilla's release schedule with nightly builds has also been a huge sucess. Mozilla has more people testing very recent versions than any other peice of software I know. Mozilla is now the most stable browser I have ever used, and I don't doubt that the nightly builds (and some talented developers) are the reason.

Hopefully now that Mozilla is very popular it will attract enough outside developers so that Netscape's original dream of no cost development to win the browser war. There are still some hurdles for developers though. Mozilla is a complicated project with a significant learning curve. It relies on some specific technologies such as XUL and XCOM which don't yet have large numbers of developers.

Re:Mozilla is a development model failure (2, Interesting)

binaryDigit (557647) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634442)

They assumed that developers would flock to the open source development effort. Netscape was looking to win the browser war without spending any money.

They didn't assume, they hoped, big difference. They also weren't looking to _win_ the browser war, they were looking to keep from being completely flushed away. It was an act of desperation. In certain ways it has succeeded as someone else mentioned, it is at least in a position of it's existence not being totally tied to a single company (i.e. now that there is viable OSS alternative, it can continue assuming enough interest from the developer community).

Re:Mozilla is a development model failure (1)

DeadSea (69598) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634596)

Open sourcing Mozilla was an act of desperation, and I'm sure glad Netscape went ahead and did it. After 5 years, Mozilla has a number of outside developers working on it. I read interviews with the thinkers in Netscape that were expecting to have their browser developed for them by open source developers and considerable cost saving. It certainly hasn't happened easily or quickly, but I think that Mozilla is at a point that it wouldn't die even if AOL pulled all support and funding from it.

For better or worse, other companies looking to open source their products have a data point. I'm hoping to see many other closed source products become open source and I'm hoping they have learned from Mozilla. It's not an easy road.

Exactly. (0, Flamebait)

Ageless (10680) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634363)

A great testament to the ability of open software models debunking the myth that while the community can hack a kernel or compiler together, we can't build a large scale project designed for everyday folks to use.

This is exactly correct. It's a great testament. Unfortunatly it's not one in favor of Mozilla, but in favor of the "myth".

Reasons Why 200,000 Bug Reports != 200,000 Bugs (5, Insightful)

kirun (658684) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634375)

Somebody always steps up to be the point-missing point-misser, so for their information, some reasons bug 200,000 isn't as bad as it sounds:
  • Bugzilla carries bugs on the whole mozilla project, including issues with the webtools, etc.
  • Sites which don't work in moz are still tracked by Bugzilla if it's the site's fault.
  • Common bugs gain a large number of duplicate reports
  • A lot of bug reports are RFEs rather than problems
  • Bug reports are also used as trackers for groups of bugs
  • Most of these bugs are fixed or closed, so they don't reflect current Moz quality
  • A large number of bugs are small problems / single platform / hard to reproduce and most users never hit them

Re:Reasons Why 200,000 Bug Reports != 200,000 Bugs (1)

hhawk (26580) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634460)

When I had a issue with Netscape 7.02 I was able to check the Bugzilla database and find a solution to my problem without wastign anyone's time and without having to play for support.

It's been great! (1)

grylnsmn (460178) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634399)

I've loved Mozilla since I first used it 2 years ago.

However, with 1.3, I've found one problem. It seems that the "Open Unrequested Windows" option for javascript (used to block popups) is missing now. I haven't been able to find it on new installations to turn it off.

If anyone knows where it moved to (or if I'm just hallucinating), please let me know.

Re:It's been great! (2, Informative)

10sball (80009) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634424)

Preferences > Privacy & Security > Popup Windows

Re:It's been great! (4, Informative)

Yosho (135835) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634452)

Yep, they moved it. It's now under Privacy & Security/Popup Windows.

The way it works has been changed slightly, too; now you can choose to either allow or suppress popups, and provide a list of exceptions. Whenever it suppresses a popup, it displays a little icon in the bottom right that you can click to allow it. I find this to be a little annoying, because I've really found that the only popups I ever got with the "unrequested" option were ones I wanted anyway, and now I have to allow them all...

Re:It's been great! (1)

athakur999 (44340) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634454)

Privacy and Security -> Popup Windows

You can whitelist/blacksite specific sites now, which is nice.

51th Post. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634403)

Yeah.. rock on..

stuck up twat. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634407)

-- Mozilla's 200,000th bug report, perhaps just as auspicious a landmark.

you code it then. or hell.. if your so godlike just take the whole project over yourself.

Sweepstake Winner (4, Informative)

Gerv (15179) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634418)

The following message should be appearing in the Mozilla newsgroups any time now:

A few minutes ago, at 13:11 PST on 2003-03-31, the 200,000th bug was filed in http://bugzilla.mozilla.org:

http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2000 00

Rather fittingly, it was filed by Chris Hofmann, head honcho of Netscape's embedding team and staunch Mozilla supporter, and is titled "joke of the day spam mail crash". (Note: please don't mess with the bug.)

Consulting my records, I see that the closest guess to the actual date and time was made by:

1st: 2003-04-01 00:00:01 bradangelcyk@hotmail.com (10 hrs, 50 mins)

a mere 10 hours and 50 minutes out. Congratulations to him; he wins a Mozilla 1.0 CD if he sends me his address.

Runners-up:

2nd: 2003-04-02 10:15:36 coch@myrealbox.com (45 hrs, 05 mins)
3rd: 2003-04-02 16:12:44 crisscott@netzero.net (51 hrs, 02 mins)

coch@myrealbox.com wins the I-have-a-Bugzilla-account-and-so-am-not-a-random-S lashdotter category.

Not every entry had an equal chance of winning the prize. Nine people submitted dates which were before the contest started (clue: this year is 2003, chaps, not 2002), and several people thought we were going to file 20,000 bugs in a matter of about a week. One person thought that he'd get away from the crowd by guessing a date in the 13th month of 2003 (what does he know that we don't?), and the furthest out two guesses had us still struggling towards the mark this time next year.

Thanks to all who took part :-)

Gerv

Re:Sweepstake Winner (2, Funny)

nogoodmonkey (614350) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634456)

1st: 2003-04-01 00:00:01 bradangelcyk@hotmail.com (10 hrs, 50 mins)

Woohoo! I won, but *sigh* how much spam am I going to get now?

Re:Sweepstake Winner (1)

caino59 (313096) | more than 11 years ago | (#5634637)

well, being a hotmail user, im sure you wont notice the minor flood, given what you probably already deal with...

lessons learned (1)

bhny (97647) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634467)

1) don't throw out the old code and start again.
-if they had built on the old Netscape code things would have proceeded faster. an open source project needs at least something to build on, or tear apart.

2) don't expand the scope of the project before you have something that works.
-using the browser to also do the interface instead of using system widgets. who's idea was that?

i like mozilla. i used it for over 2 years before Safari came along.

success? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634475)

Success? Have you actually used that thing? Pages take 2x to load as IE.

We'll can continue using Mozilla going forward (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5634484)



Computing power doubles every 18 months? Is that the correct quote by the Intel dude?

Thanks to the increasing computing power, and the 4 GB memory chips coming out, we'll be able to continue using Mozilla for a while.

I was worried about nothing. Phewww!

Error in story (1)

Azar (56604) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634491)

The trunk is feature frozen for the upcoming alpha release for 1.4.

While a minor mistake, the Mozilla is in feature freeze for the 1.4 BETA release, it's already in "alpha".

Mozilla, panties, and YOU!!! (-1, Offtopic)

handybundler (232934) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634514)

Special visitor

Get to know a dirty old man. When your wife is out let him come in and fumble through her panties drawer, then select a pair, making sure it's a pair of her black nylon ones. Then watch him as he wanks into them making sure he comes into the gusset. Let him go on his way and dry off the panties, putting them back in the drawer. When she wears them, my cock gets so hard, it's better than Viagra.

Laundry room

I steal panties from the complex's laundry room. I usually pretend to do a load of laundry and sit there and watch the girl load the washer. As soon as she leaves, I open up the machine (hopefully before they get wet) and grab the first pair I can find. I usually return to my room, and jack off sucking the crotch of all her juices... then cum on the crotch. Sometimes I'll return them right back into the machine... this gets tricky, but it adds to the fun. Good luck... always bring a laundry bag in with you just in case.

After a good run

My sister goes running every morning. When she gets done she goes and takes a shower and she always leaves her dirty clothes on the floor. I go in after her and get naked. I pick up her stinky socks and put them on my face while breathing in deeply. The smell gags me but it always makes my dick so hard. With the sock still over my nose I pick up her dirty panties and lick the brown spot where they rode up her ass. It always gets me off.

Red panties

Red bloody panties are best. I find them in a friend's house, laundry basket, etc.. Two pairs work best, one on my face and the other wrapped around my cock. Guaranteed to make a man cum--hard.

Found treasures

I go into the ladies room at the place I work every day at least twice and check the baskets for dirty panties, used pads, and panty liners. When I get home and I sniff them, lick them, and rub my dick while laying on my stomach with a pile of old panties I stole until I come. Sometimes I buy tampons and insert them into my ass while masturbating.

Sister's thong

I like to take my sister's thongs and wear them around with nothing else except my jeans. When I first start looking for the thong I get a huge hard on and when I put on the thong I like the feel of it going up my ass. I wear them for about an hour or so until my dick isn't hard any more then I start to play around with it again feeling the silk on my cock. Then I go to my room and whack off. it feels great. After that, I go back to my sister's room and put them right back where they were. She doesn't know to this day.

Mom's drawer

I like to masturbate by first stealing a pair of panties from my mom's drawer. A nice silky pair too. Then I like to put the panties on with nothing else on except for a bra that I also stole and a black teddy and a pair of pantyhose. Once I have all that on I lie flat on my stomach and make my fist into a ball and press it against my hard cock. As I'm doing that I take a candy cane and push it into my ass really hard, then I pull it out and lick all the shit off. Once I blow my load in the panties I take them off and lick the warm hot cum off while rubbing some on my face.

Stained panties

Take a pair of you sisters of mothers underwear and get a dildo and stick the dildo up your ass and then lick the panties (but make sure the are used either stained with blood or something else) and then suck them as you whack off. It always works for me.

I lick it all up

I like to lay a pair of dirty wet panties on the carpet, the dirty side of the crotch facing up, then I lay down with the crotch just wide enough for my erect cock and rub up and down until I ejaculate. Then I lick it all up.

It tastes great!

When I jack off, I like to have a pair of my sister's panties that she already wore to smell and lick. It taste great!! I also like to get a pair of her leather sandals and hump them. I find it very erotic to lick my feet and suck my toes while i jack off. Try it its great!!

Care package

I wear my wife's pantyhose and then get her silk panties. Don't forget the used panties to sniff. I place the clean panties on my hand as then begin to hump my hand. This is a very quick and powerful orgasm. Sometimes after I cum I go to sleep wake up and do it again. It is a great jack off and very pleasing. When I was away from her for a year tour to Korea I would have her send me the pantyhose she wore along with some panties...never cheated on her while I was there, but why should I when I could smell her scent and hump her hose everyday.

Too bad we can't count Windows bug reports... (1)

crashnbur (127738) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634519)

"Microsoft made history today, when the total number of bug reports for the various versions of the Windows shell and operating system eclipsed the total population of the planet..."

One thing I hate.. but I can't all it a bug (3, Insightful)

Bluefirebird (649667) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634525)

One thing I hate.. but I can't all it a bug is that when I open a link in a new window or tab and it fails to connect, the browser shows a stupid dialog box and the URL of that page is about:blank.
This way I can't refresh because I lost the URL.
Sometimes I open several tabs and I need to know which links correspond to the failed windows so that I can reopen.
I think IE tries to connect twice before failing.

Re:One thing I hate.. but I can't all it a bug (1)

10sball (80009) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634597)

And I can tell you with no uncertainty that your complain is already one of the 200k+ bugs that have been filed. Just do some searching if you wanna find it and track it :)

Mozilla still best on the Mac. (1)

itistoday (602304) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634537)

I don't know about you guys, but for me and my OS X Box, Mozilla is #1. Safari is too buggy and doesn't support squat, Chimera is also too buggy, Opera is a joke, and IE is even worse. Try the nightly's of Mozilla, at least for me they are fast, bug free, and support virtually everything.

I don't know what you guys are talking about, cause other than it's laughable email-client, Mozilla is an IE killer.

Netscape (1)

miketang16 (585602) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634547)

I love how Netscape, since they own the rights to the Mozilla code, uses it directly for their browser... except like a year after Mozilla implements it. They're like the older, slower brother.

A little whack from the perspective stick... (4, Insightful)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634613)

" A great testament to the ability of open software models debunking the myth that while the community can hack a kernel or compiler together, we can't build a large scale project designed for everyday folks to use."

It took nearly 5 years to get to version 1. At that rate, a few monkeys accessorized with keyboards could have accomplished that.

Don't get me wrong, Mozilla's a wonderful tool for the interent. I'm glad to see IE getting a run for its money. I just don't feel that any myths were shattered here.

1.) It took aaaaaaaaages.

2.) For the most part, the hard work was done and the tough decisions were made. Mozilla wasn't exactly paving the way for the internet as we see it today.

3.) It was necessary. Linux needed a AAA browser. If a good browser for Linux wasn't in demand, how far would it have gone?

I guess what I'm saying is that it's a logical evolution, not necessarily a challenge for the community. Get the community to put together an ambitious game, then we'll shatter a few myths.

Darn it... (1)

Sayjack (181286) | more than 10 years ago | (#5634620)

I was going to say something really inspirational and uplifting here but my darn browser crashed and I lost my train of thought. Trust me...it was profound.

Anyway, kudos to the Mozilla team. Long live Mozilla! Cross platform browsers rock!

Hey...I know this is probably a bad venue for a bug report but the new Junk mail filtering doesn't seem to work if you're using movemail. Can you guys take a look at this please :-)

dropped ball (1)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 11 years ago | (#5634623)

i think mozilla while a great engine in geko dropped the ball.. the fact that apple chose khtml over geko is really something they shoudl think about. The mozilla team should have focused on getting something that *works well* out then adding features and not the other way around. oh yeah and the red star communst logo is really sad.

Bugzilla must be 32-bit (3, Funny)

mrm677 (456727) | more than 11 years ago | (#5634641)

At my previous job at a Fortune-100 company, the proprietary bug database we used kept track of the Bug ID with an unsigned 16-bit number.

Yep, to the surprise and dismay of many, we overflowed at bug# 65537

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