×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

BSA IDC FUD

timothy posted about 11 years ago | from the another-tla-comes-to-mind dept.

The Almighty Buck 354

truthsearch writes "News.com.com is reporting that a 'study, commissioned by the BSA and conducted by IDC, found that in general, nations with the lowest piracy rates had the largest IT sectors. The study, which examined 57 countries, predicted that a 10-point reduction in the rate of piracy over four years could generate 1.5 million jobs and $64 billion taxes worldwide.' The BSA, er... Microsoft, will use this study to convince governments to crack down on piracy. 'Overall, the countries that have the poorest record of IP rights have slower rates of IT growth,' BSA CEO Robert Holleyman said. Oh, and the countries with the most oppression have had the slowest IT growth, but that can't be the cause, nah."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

354 comments

Note to BSA: go fuck yourselves (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647533)

I know someone that was audited by the BSA and decided to fight it.
Basically they countered by stating they wanted full disclosure of
who reported them so as to determine the validity of the claim prior
to wasting internal resources and dollars. They also argued that
the reporting tools are a violation of privacy. Yes, they expected
them to place some software on their network which scans their
entire network not to mention each machine's registry. Third, they
also argued that even if they were in violation of license, the
license is between them and the vendor (after all, the license does
not allow for the BSA as having legal proxy interests) and unless
the vendor in questions decides that they'd like to personally
persue the issue, the BSA does not have legal authority or the
legal grounds to persue the action. Furthermore, they argued that
even if something odd was discovered and they lost, only the
government has the right to impose fines on legal matters as such
and they would be within their legal rights to simply purchase
any outstanding licenses or settle directly with the vendor in
question and completely dismiss the BSA altogether thereby
eliminating the need to pay any fines or added fees.

Re:Note to BSA: go fuck yourselves (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647609)

So what happened to this company? Are they still in business or did the BSA run them out of town?

Re:Note to BSA: go fuck yourselves (1)

ch-chuck (9622) | about 11 years ago | (#5647733)

I know someone that was audited by the BSA and decided to fight it.

So, how long a prison sentence did s/he get?

*BSD is dying (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647536)

It is official; Netcraft confirms: *BSD is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin [amazingkreskin.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

Fact: *BSD is dying

Uh huh... (1, Interesting)

Glock27 (446276) | about 11 years ago | (#5647541)

'Overall, the countries that have the poorest record of IP rights have slower rates of IT growth,' BSA CEO Robert Holleyman said.

In related news, it was revealed that 20% of reckless drivers smoked marijuana. (Of course, so does 20% of the general population;).

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Truer words were never spoken...

different reason [humor] (1)

Telastyn (206146) | about 11 years ago | (#5647543)

It's based on growth. Countries with alot of IT already know how to steal overpriced software.

More TLA please (1)

sconeu (64226) | about 11 years ago | (#5647562)


In summary, the headline needs more TLAs to confuse the FBI, CIA, DHS, NSA, DEA, and ATF!

hah! (2, Insightful)

gotjanx (655446) | about 11 years ago | (#5647564)

Thats a laugh, countries like India China have very high percentage of piracy (some stats put it above 90 %) yet have a burgeoning software industry. Albeit due to offshore development work in most parts.

Re:hah! (1)

Cramer (69040) | about 11 years ago | (#5647867)

Well, that makes it easier to steal... It's not hard to save two copies of your work and carry one of the home with you.

In a related study... (5, Funny)

Sanity (1431) | about 11 years ago | (#5647566)

...the BSA pointed out that countries with more relaxed Intellectual Property laws had higher child mortality rates. "The inference is clear", BSA CEO Robert Holleyman said, "Piracy kills babies".

/. to the rescue!!! (0, Flamebait)

stratjakt (596332) | about 11 years ago | (#5647574)

Quick!

Everyone talk out of their ass, make up numbers, and tell spurious specific-to-general arguments about how everyone with different views is wrong!

'cuz we all know that not getting paid for your work is the best way to encourage growth in the tech sector, right.

Re:/. to the rescue!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647670)

BEEP . BEEP . BEEP . BEEP

man, troll detector is going wild.

Re:/. to the rescue!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647888)

BEEP . BEEP . BEEP . BEEP

And here I was thinking it was your computer eating your paper... and good paper at that...

Translated into english (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647576)

The press release is in misleading language. Translated into english:

Countries should help us exploit our patents and trademarks to maintain monopoly. Our "unbiased" study confirms that this will help your economy.

BSA? (2, Funny)

shibbydude (622591) | about 11 years ago | (#5647577)

I didn't know the boy scouts of america were cracking down on piracy! If they weren't always coming to my door with thier fundraisers, I'd have some money to buy some legal software!

Exactly! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647585)

. Oh, and the countries with the most oppression have had the slowest IT growth, but that can't be the cause, nah

Very true. That can't be the cause. IT growth (or any market growth) will happen in areas where it is rewarded. Piracy does not reward IT growth - it does the opposite and retards it.

The same applies to the music industry, book publishing, or any other intellecutal property enterprise. Keep that in mind next time you are firing up your P2P client and downloading the latest "free" software or music or whatever. Remember that your "free" software has a cost - rather than being measured in a few dollars out of your wallet, this cost is measured in people's jobs.

Re:Exactly! (1)

jedidiah (1196) | about 11 years ago | (#5647689)

I'm glad you put it that way. I'd LOVE to cause mass unemployment of A&R men.

Also, those of us with real programming credits don't need cluebies like you "sticking up" for us.

Yeah (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647718)

Your LNUX stock is sure sticking up for you, isn't it?

Ha! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647783)

Sure you do - your website is down.

Wrong! (3, Insightful)

raehl (609729) | about 11 years ago | (#5647790)

Piracy does very little to harm music, for the very simple reason that the people who make music (musicians) make money from PERFORMANCES, not selling recordings.

The only people piracy hurts is record companies, and I don't know about you, but I don't really care about the growth of record companies.

Re:Exactly! (2, Insightful)

91degrees (207121) | about 11 years ago | (#5647854)

Alternatively - Countries with a large IT sector also have a strong IP lobby, which will often demand stronger laws.

Easy... (3, Funny)

jmv (93421) | about 11 years ago | (#5647586)

So what's the easiest way to dramatically reduce piracy: use open-source software. So if everybody switches to open-source, it'll be good the the industry. So I suggest the BSA starts advocating OSS more. After all, that's good for the industry :)

Ummm... (1)

Flamesplash (469287) | about 11 years ago | (#5647626)

After all, that's good for the industry :)

Unless you actually want to make money. ;)

Re:Ummm... (2, Insightful)

daeley (126313) | about 11 years ago | (#5647722)

Remind me again how much money you get for a pirated version of your software?

Re:Ummm... (1)

jcr (53032) | about 11 years ago | (#5647881)

Remind me again how much money you get for a pirated version of your software?

You get many purchases down the road, when the kid who pirated your app graduates and starts making buying decisions for his employer.

-jcr

Re:Ummm... (2, Interesting)

jmv (93421) | about 11 years ago | (#5647760)

No, the point made by the BSA is that reduced piracy==profit. OSS is the best and easiest way to reduce piracy, hence it is good for the inductry. If you look at the OSS world, you'll also see that the countries that contribute the most to OSS are the ones with the biggest IT industry.

(BTW, I'm not saying that seriously, but just pushing the BSA statements a bit further)

Re:Easy... (3, Interesting)

bmajik (96670) | about 11 years ago | (#5647748)

actually, you're dead on.

Open source software _is_ good for the IT industry. Broken software that requires babysitting by elitist gurus is _exactly_ what IT workers want, so they can continue to justify their positions and their salaries.

UNIX and Open source in general are _Great_ for the privileged few IT workers that use them effectively (or use them effectively enough to fool their employers).

Until companies start doing the hard analysis of "gosh, even though i sell shoes, IT is 50% of my expenditures. Maybe i should go back to the old way and cut my costs, after all, any 5.75/hr secretary can file papers and write order tickets"

Then IT industry will crash and the people that had cushy jobs because they were pseudo-wizards will get laid off, and companies will start using software that doesn't require wizards to run, and actually lets them focus on their business instead of their IT dept.

Not that any UNIX/internet companies have had trouble or layoffs recently, or anything ;)

Re:Easy... (2, Insightful)

Xerithane (13482) | about 11 years ago | (#5647814)

Open source software _is_ good for the IT industry. Broken software that requires babysitting by elitist gurus is _exactly_ what IT workers want, so they can continue to justify their positions and their salaries.


Little addendum:
With the select few open source applications, this is dead on. Apache and FreeBSD are IT services that don't require elitist gurus, but try to get PHP + mod_perl + Apache with mod_ssl going, and you need that guru.

Great post, was brilliantly timed. I'm glad you didn't post this top level because it would have likely been taken out of context.

Might work... (1)

alsta (9424) | about 11 years ago | (#5647589)

"When people are using software but they're using a pirated version, they're not paying the government the tax revenues it should be receiving," Holleyman said.

Wonder how our elected representatives are going to take this. Obviously they're not going to consider that people who wouldn't (couldn't afford to) buy the software in the first place would be dodging taxes. Not to mention of course the amount of PR various BSA members have received for "leaked" beta versions of software...

Re:Might work... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647622)

Wonder if this will be the new add-on charge they throw at busted software pirates, similar to how they'll occasionally charge someone who was found with illegal drugs not only with the drug offense, but for failing to pay the excise taxes on the drugs.

Re:Might work... (1)

Dexx (34621) | about 11 years ago | (#5647850)

To follow this line of thought a bit, if they're not paying the government, they're hampering the US war against terrorism. Therefore software priates == aiding terrorism.

Yes, I know that one doesn't actually depend on the other, but if presented in nice packaging, will Joe Sentator really care?

Correlation == Causation (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647591)

Apparently, it does! [umich.edu]

-*{War is Peace}*-

If thats the problem..... (3, Funny)

curtisk (191737) | about 11 years ago | (#5647596)

"When people are using software but they're using a pirated version, they're not paying the government the tax revenues it should be receiving," Holleyman said.

Damn.....if thats a big issue with how piracy is wrong, I'm free and clear since I don't pay any sales tax anyway in the state I'm in (Delaware)......whew! my conscious is CLEARED!

Time to buy another spindle of CDRs!

Linux use hurtsd us economy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647601)

Since open software isn't generally paid for when used in a residence, then by their logic that person is hurting the US economy by not paying taxes that otherwise would have been paid when they bought software. Therefore, they would conclude that we should tax linux's residential use. OR maybe we should just make them take some classes that teach the difference between correlation and causeation.

Not what I'd have predicted. (1)

ajuda (124386) | about 11 years ago | (#5647606)

The way I figure it, the nations with the SMALLEST IT sectors would have the least piracy. Think about it: countries like Sudan and Nigeria... who's gonna be pirating Windows XP when they don't have a computer to run it on?

Re:Not what I'd have predicted. (4, Funny)

binaryDigit (557647) | about 11 years ago | (#5647832)

Think about it: countries like Sudan and Nigeria... who's gonna be pirating Windows XP when they don't have a computer to run it on?

Of course they have computers in Nigeria. How else is John Bako sending out his 419 emails to everyone?

Correlation vs. Causality (5, Insightful)

nick this (22998) | about 11 years ago | (#5647608)

Another classic example of confusing correlation with causality. Just because there is a correlation between the two, doesn't mean that one *causes* the other. They could just as easily *both* be affected by a third variable (average income? average levels of education? percentage of computer-using businesses?)

This is the kind of thing that gives statistics a bad name.

Here's another correlation distortion. People in the mid 1800's had an average lifespan of what? 45 years? Today's average lifespan is like 70 or something. Now, choose your data sets that way, and compare life expectancy of those people who have personal computers, and those that didn't (those from the 1800's). You'll find a *strong* correlation between PC use and life expectancy.

But it's clearly meaningless. The key factor here is obviously availability of health care. You can use this same trick to "prove" relationship between almost anything.

This study is clearly junk.

Tell Your Congresscritter (1)

siskbc (598067) | about 11 years ago | (#5647795)

Could you please forward that post to whoever claims to represent you in Congress? Remember to remove all those tricky big words though.

You'll find a *strong* correlation between PC use and life expectancy.

Also, if you do send this to DC, I expect that free PC's will become part of Medicare...;)

Re:Correlation vs. Causality (3, Funny)

crackervoodoo (663384) | about 11 years ago | (#5647817)

Ok, let me give it a whirl. Ahem... Over the last 15 years the average income of women in the US has increased dramatically, narrowing the salary gap between genders. I've been having sex for approximately 15 years. I predict that if more women have sex with me, there will be equality in wages....Hey you're right! Time to write up a press release and shave...

Re: Quoth the Simpsons: (3, Insightful)

lysium (644252) | about 11 years ago | (#5647834)

Homer: "There's not a single bear in sight--the 'Bear Patrol' is working like a charm".
Lisa: "That's specious reasoning."
Homer: "Thanks, honey."
Lisa: "According to your logic, this rock keeps tigers away".
Homer: "Hmmm. How does it work?"
Lisa: "It doesn't."
Homer: "How so?"
Lisa: "It's just a rock. But I don't see a tiger, anywhere."
Homer: "Lisa,"
*pulls out wallet* "I want to buy your rock."
----------

Re:Correlation vs. Causality (2, Funny)

karlandtanya (601084) | about 11 years ago | (#5647853)

While you are correct, I don't see how that makes any difference.


If the intended audience is the general public or your average collection of drunken frat-boys then stupid arguments are pretty convincing. It's not through chance that the unethical use FUD.


If, however, the intended audience are our just and wise leaders--those who consider every issue in a careful, logical, and unbiased manner, then your complaint is relevant.


For our leaders would never use such arguments to pacify the public and justify their own interests. Our leaders have the interests of justice and the public good at heart. The protection of moneyed interests is insignificant. Especially when seen in the light of that sacred and holy commitment that each of our leaders has made--to uphold the Constitution and laws of the United States of America.


P.S. I have some swamp^H^H^H^H^Hland in Florida for only $400/acre if you're interested.

Re:Correlation vs. Causality (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647875)

Which is why no one is commenting on the story - BORING! I think the BSA is just shooting themselves in what's left of their bullet-ridden foot, so no one really cares.

For what it's worth, I believe the fact that there are more Americans in America, and that their is less software piracy in America than in China, must indicate that all Chinese like to eat babies.

Classic statistical lying technique. (3, Funny)

WasterDave (20047) | about 11 years ago | (#5647610)

...putting cause and effect the wrong way round. In other news:

* People sneezing more likely to catch cold.
* Companies with fewer security concerns more likely to use Linux.
* People who buy Ferrari's are more likely to be rich.

Dave

Re:Classic statistical lying technique. (1)

8282now (583198) | about 11 years ago | (#5647688)

* People who buy Ferrari's are more likely to be rich. ----

Isn't this the general point of most car commercials for high end (expensive) cars??
... buy this car and you'll (appear to) be rich...

Oh that's great (4, Interesting)

ShatteredDream (636520) | about 11 years ago | (#5647611)

Tell the greedy politicians that they get something out of doing their job, which is supposed to be enforcing the law. $64B in taxes? That's a **great** way to ensure that jack-booted thugs with M-16s, AK-47s, MP5s or Styr-Augs (depending on the PD) bust down as many doors as possible to make sure that $64B is protected. That's of course assuming that eliminating piracy won't damage or destroy other sectors of the economy. People, $64B is ~$24B more than we spend on the insane WoD. I know that will get spread over many countries, but that's still a damn big incentive even if it's only an extra $5B to the general fund.

Imagine Palladium getting mandated to make this possible. No Macintosh anymore or similar platforms. Probably no WordPerfect either as it will cost Corel too much to get certified. Linux? Bye bye SuSE, RedHat, Mandrake, et al. It will be an industry dominated by a handful of giants. Our spineless, ignorant politicians have long ago forgotten that it is small and medium-sized business, not the giants, that run most of the economy. If those go under, unemployment will skyrocket, both parties will have egg on their faces and knowing America these days, we won't have a third party gaining power, we'll have 2 party weasles giving people heaping buckets full of Socialism.

Perhaps that's because (1)

artsygeek (582248) | about 11 years ago | (#5647615)

Perhaps IT sectors are smaller in piracy laden countries is because countries with good IT sectors don't NEED piracy to pay their IT bills. By that I mean, if you can support a good IT sector, you don't need pirated software to work.

Correlation is not Causality (1)

SatanicLoveMonkey (634012) | about 11 years ago | (#5647616)

That's the problem with statistics. This could be a complementary or parallel development. All statistics can show is how numbers move together. I can practically guarantee that there are educational, social, and political conditions in the sample set that would seriously weaken the validity of the conclusions drawn by the BSA.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc (1)

Outlyer (1767) | about 11 years ago | (#5647625)

(English: After this, therefore because of this.)

How can anyone conclude anything from this? You could say: "High piracy results in a weak IT sector" or you could say "A strong IT sector results in low piracy"

Both are completely valid conclusions to draw, and neither means anything in a void.

Correlation, meet causation.

Huh? (3, Funny)

Gogl (125883) | about 11 years ago | (#5647629)

FYI, the BSA, AKA "guys we don't like", are spreading FUD using $$$ and buying out the IDC, an industry analyst that government organizations such as the CIA, the FBI, the NSA, the DOD, the DOJ, TIPS, the WTO, and perhaps even more will all listen to and as such we will be forced to respond by supporting groups such as the ACLU and the EFF in the fight to maintain our civil rights while also hoping that we're not drafted the SSS and also that the SSA holds together so we can all retire someday.

Or something.

It's About Glue (4, Funny)

ackthpt (218170) | about 11 years ago | (#5647630)

If piracy is high, their IT sector must be low

If an IT sector is low it must be a developing country

If it's a developing country then piracy will be high

thus...

If piracy is high, we impose trade sanctions

If trade sanctions are imposed, a developing country's economy will suffer

If people can't make enough money to buy software because their economy suffers they will not pirate software because they have learned their lesson.

"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue."

How can they possibly conclude that ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647635)

... reducing the piracy rate will increase the IT of that country? Which is the cause and which is the effect or is there no connection of one driving the other.

Sounds like, if your boats stop sinking, you'll get an increase in air traffic.

They could easily kill young IT growth by taking drastic measures to prevent piracy!

I do think that having a large responsible IT will help reduce piracy, but I don't see the reverse being true. Less pirady doesn't mean more/better IT.

I really wish... (2, Insightful)

ShieldWolf (20476) | about 11 years ago | (#5647636)

That it was mandatory for all Journalists to take a minimum course in physics, statistics, biology, logic and history.

Causation and corelation are not the same thing.

Countries with a large IT industry tend to be highly developed, do not tend to have large organized crime, and tend to have stricter piracy laws. These all help keep piracy down.

This does not imply however that increasing piracy laws will increase the IT industry.

A=>B does not mean B=>A

It's like saying that countries with sea-access tend to have navy's, so if a country gets a navy it will have sea access.

It is a logical falicy.

It's laziness, not lack of education (1)

truthsearch (249536) | about 11 years ago | (#5647763)

The news.com.com.com story is quoting and summarizing, but not stating any inferred conclusions (or the fact that the study gives no conclusions). It's the laziness of the article's author, I believe, not a lack of understanding that makes it appear he/she agrees. I think the article's just trying to get the facts out without disagreeing with anyone about anything.

BSD IDC FUD URA FAG (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647637)

EOM

For your own good (3, Funny)

burgburgburg (574866) | about 11 years ago | (#5647657)

Helping us to force your young, weak IT sector to pay ridiculous licensing fees to us will cause your IT sector to grow tenfold in a year.

Also, tithing 10% of your monies to our ministry (the Church of BSA) will return your monies tenfold. The Lord Bill has said so. So let it be written, so let it be done.

Re:For your own good (1)

BTM1001 (662358) | about 11 years ago | (#5647773)

Speaking of 10%... If you do some math with a 10% tax rate (generally higher than what would actually be paid), the revenue to the software companies would be 6,336,000,000,000.00 dollars US. 6.3 TRILLION. TO put that in perspective, the GDP of the entire US in 2001 was $10.082 trillion. (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos /us.html#Econ). Who really benifits from this push?

Keeping Money in the Bank Harms the Economy (1)

lysium (644252) | about 11 years ago | (#5647661)

Yes, that's right. Remember the halcyon ninties when personal savings rates were actually negative? That kind of foolish spending was actually very good for the economy. Oh, and for the government as well, through all those sales.

So if everyone goes out and immediately spends all the money they have, many companies will see their profits increase.

That is all.
----------

Let me check I got that subject line right (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647662)

YRO BSA IDC FUD.

TLA Baby!!

Bull Shit Alliance (1)

Steven Blanchley (655585) | about 11 years ago | (#5647678)

The study points out a positive correlation between B and C, where B is antipiracy measures and C is IT growth. This, they say, is enough to show that B leads to C.

What if C leads to B? What if another condition A leads to both B and C?

The article doesn't say a damn thing about that. They just drew the conclusion that supports their agenda.

As one of only 4 people who watched Dilbert .. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647679)

on Comedy central last night, there's a perfect statement
for this story.



All growing companies are losing money. Since we are not
losing money, we are not growing. SO we need to lose money
so we can grow.



Can we say the BSA is putting the cart before the horse?

Cause and Effect (2, Insightful)

BeBoxer (14448) | about 11 years ago | (#5647682)

Once again somebody has decided to confuse cause and effect. Here's what the article says:

in general, nations with the lowest piracy rates had the largest IT sectors, as measured as a share of the countries' gross domestic product(GDP)

My take:

in general, nations with higher rates of piracy spend less of their GDP on software.

Gosh, what a suprise. I never would have guessed. I wonder what they'll think of next. I supose they'll tell us that people who buy cars instead of stealing them have larger "automotive spending sectors". Which isn't to say that copyright violations are OK. But to tell a country that sending more of their GDP overseas to the US will help their local IT economy is just a bunch of crap IMHO.

IAWTA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647685)

I Agree With This Article

As a former #warez4cable member (we got busted in 97 on Newnet).. I just have this to say..

Eat shit, I run 0-day now bitch!

morons (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647691)

Could it possibly be that countries without IT infrastructures simply can't afford shrink-wrap and therefore pirate?

Is it not plausible that BY pirating these countries build the necessary infrastructure to develop commerce? Is it not possible that, for example, limited funds are used to purchase hardware which wouldn't be purchased otherwise?

And if obtaining usable software at low or zero cost was not achievable that these countries simply wouldn't purchase hardware.

And therefore stronger piracy controls would result in fewer jobs - since it won't automatically create funds for the purchase of hardware.

The same is true domestically, were it not for freely available software, hardware sales would plummet and prices skyrocket, further depressing the industry. It's a tipping point problem and if TCPA platforms are successful where private stormtroopers trampling the bill of rights have failed, it will likely mean the end of affordable computers.

Unless open source provides a viable desktop before then.

Funny Numbers (4, Insightful)

Ken@WearableTech (107340) | about 11 years ago | (#5647695)

"The organization estimates that 40 percent of all software programs worldwide are pirated"

Is this?

A: Of all the software installed 40% is Warez
B: 40% of titles have been turned into Warez

I think that they mean A but I only find B to be believable.

Re:Funny Numbers (1)

chrisseaton (573490) | about 11 years ago | (#5647761)

I think a lot of businesses in places such as China simply do not even consider paying for software. China is a big country so the numbers might be right.

Correlation is not causality. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647696)

The countries with the lowest piracy having the largest IT does not mean that "low piracy => IT growth". In fact, I'd say the other way around, in fact. Growing local IT in the country will probably do more to decrease piracy than a draconian anti-piracy crackdown will.

this makes no sense (1)

k3v0 (592611) | about 11 years ago | (#5647697)

nations that have more IT will have more IT. if there is more IT, there are more hackers, and thus more people defending networks against hackers. oh wait, microsoft makes hackers obsolete. everything is okay. nevermind

Hi (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647705)

As a representative from the BSA making my first visit to Slashdot, let me say, thanks for all the insightful commentary on our study! We will be sure to retract it and point out to your elected representatives that correlation does not imply causality. We will then dismantle our organization and all live together in a utopia filled with puppy dogs, sunny days, and Richard Stallman.

The BSA study also determined... (4, Funny)

raehl (609729) | about 11 years ago | (#5647712)

That countries with high piracy rates were much more likely to be populated by people of color.

"Without immediate action to stop the spread of piracy, American citizen's will soon find their skin turning darker and darker," said BSA Spokeman Bubba Nalk. "We can already see the effects of software piracy on college campuses, as file swapping continues to turn white students into asians and even black students, as evidenced by the increased enrollment of students of color."

Mr. Nalk had no comment on whether software piracy also caused male college athletes to turn into women.

BSA Audits Major Pop Star (2, Funny)

raehl (609729) | about 11 years ago | (#5647749)

The BSA was pleased to announce that after conducting a thurough audit of Michael Jackson's home and production company offices that all of his software had the approrpriate licenses, and in many cases, Mr. Jackson had several more licenses than were required for the software he was using.

"We're pleased to have Mr. Jackson's support in combating the numerous negative effects of software piracy," said BSA spokesman Bubba Nalk.

I don't think so ..... (1)

mxpengin (516866) | about 11 years ago | (#5647724)

"The BSA said that reducing software piracy could speed the growth of the IT industry, which in turn could create jobs and bolster weak economies."
In my opinion this phrase should be :
"growth of IT industry could reduce the software piracy" , because the piracy is promoted by poverty, and a lack of culture. This two causes cannot be eliminated by reducing piracy , they are reduced with education in IT and an Industry (JOBS) in IT.

That's Easy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647734)

More affluent countries can afford to:

1. Pay for the software.
2. Pay IT salaries.

Poor countries cannot do either, so they make
do without IT staff and shamelessly pirate
software. (As well as audio and video.)

Free Software Proposal (5, Funny)

benja (623818) | about 11 years ago | (#5647736)

In the light of these amazing and insightful numbers, I propose that governments all over the world take immediate measures to combat privacy and foster the development and distribution of Free Software. After all, Free Software attacks piracy at its root: Free Software cannot be pirated per definitionem!

These numbers make it clear that countries investing in Free Software will have a clear competitive advantage when it comes to their IT sectors.

:-)

OpenSource advocates should be happy about BSA (2, Interesting)

vano2001 (617789) | about 11 years ago | (#5647737)

Seriously. It is no secret that the great majority of Windows systems deployed all around the western (and the rest of the) world are pirate copies. There is no incentive for a specific company to switch to linux servers from windows servers when the linux solution will cost much more than the windows one.

Two things (in case you're missing the point): (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647742)

1) Its not just Microsoft. It sounds like a large group of some pretty powerful players: BSA members include Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, Avid, Bentley Systems, Borland, CNC Software/Mastercam, Internet Security Systems, Macromedia, Microsoft, Network Associates and Symantec.

2) I'd be more concerned that this logic leads to the end of 'free' software. I mean, who among us actually lobbies for the right to pirate? The underlying theme here is that any software that isn't payed for doesn't collect taxes. Add to that the idea of taxing inter-state (aka online) sales, and we've got something substantial to be concerened about.

Re:Two things (in case you're missing the point): (1)

stratjakt (596332) | about 11 years ago | (#5647778)

Apple?

What are they some bankrupt .com startup or something?

The BSA - bunch of thugs (5, Interesting)

Migraineman (632203) | about 11 years ago | (#5647762)

I started my own business recently. Not two weeks after I submitted the paperwork for a state business license, I received a mailing from the BSA that encouraged me to volunteer for an audit "just to make sure I didn't expose myself to the liability of unlicensed or improperly licensed software."

Uh huh. Riiiiiight. Seems that the state gub'ment sold a mailing list to these jackbooted thugs. You gimme any of that juris-my-diction crap, you can cram it up your ass.

Technically this is just "F" (1)

Wylfing (144940) | about 11 years ago | (#5647792)

There's no "U" or "D" going on here. OK maybe just a little "FU" but mainly "F".

Scary Part (4, Interesting)

White Roses (211207) | about 11 years ago | (#5647810)

To me, the scariest part is the fact that most people in any sort of infulential position (C*O, Congresscritter, etc.) are more likely to respond to the fact that this report is printed on expensive/glossy paper and so therefore it must be true.

Worse yet is if the BSA presents it's findings over a complimentary lunch where they refuse to feed you until you've heard their propaganda, er, um, presentation.

If only I could print my proposals to use non-MS products in the latest issue of Dumbass Boss Monthly (this month's feature: Shiny Things As Business Strategy), I'd have no trouble. Graphs, documentation and logic seem to hold no weight.

Classic Fallicy: One doesn't equal the other. (0)

Malluck (413074) | about 11 years ago | (#5647811)

Patent laws and anti-piracy laws have always be most strictly enforced by the countries that have the most to loose by not having them. Look at the industrial revolution for instance. The countries with the technical edge in one sector would confine the flow of information to keep thier edge. Any economic history major will recognize that the great Lowell and Slater Mills form the early U.S. used technology that was stolen from England (The Archwright Waterframe and Powerloom). This is no different with software. These less developed contried are trying to bridge the technology gap and piracy is the easiest and most economic way to do so. To say that restricting the flow of information into a country would boost it's IT sector is fally. It works the other way around until they are caught up. Then anti-piracy laws would make sence to keep this lead. Free trade? What's that? :-)

Biting the hand that feeds you (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647827)

Based on the sarcastic tone of the posting and the replies so far, I'm kinda dumbfounded. I cannot understand why so many here are so opposed to protecting IP. I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that the majority of posters here make their living directly developing IP or using it. It is in your interest to not have the software you make pirated. Do you really want that project you just spent X years on available for pennies in China? I'd rather have people actually pay for the products I produce and not have to worry about my company having layoffs because people are illegally copying software.

Now, I understand and empathize with those who don't like the way IP protection is often implemented. Microsoft, the RIAA, MPAA, and many others are often heavy handed and/or just plain stupid in how they try to prevent piracy, but don't confuse their methods with their (reported) intention. If you don't like how piracy prevention is attempted now, then try coming up with a differnt scheme that's more equitable and effective. People here on /. seem to be pretty clever, but I've yet to read one idea on how they'd implement piracy prevention any better than what is being done....

If I remove a fly's wings.. (1)

jcr (53032) | about 11 years ago | (#5647845)

..and then clap my hands near the fly, it does not fly away. Therefore, I conclude that removing the fly's wings makes it go deaf.

Of COURSE piracy is rampant in poor countries. It does not follow that if they got a lid on it, then they would suddenly develop a thriving IT industry.

-jcr

People with IT jobs see piracy as stealing (4, Insightful)

laymusic (140088) | about 11 years ago | (#5647863)

>> in general, nations with the lowest piracy rates >> had the largest IT sectors

I think for people who don't think of software as work that puts bread on the table, software piracy feels less like stealing than it does for people who have had jobs writing software that paid their bills and bought food.

Logical fallacies abound (5, Insightful)

Wylfing (144940) | about 11 years ago | (#5647876)

a 10-point reduction in the rate of piracy over four years could generate 1.5 million jobs and $64 billion taxes worldwide

This assumes everyone has a bunch of unspent capital lying around. That never happens. If people are not spending their money on software, they are spending it somewhere else in the economy. "Cracking down on piracy" doesn't generate any tax money -- those taxes are already being collected. The only thing that changes is the government forces money from other sectors into the software sector.

"Your Rights Online" Irony (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5647877)

I always laugh when people complain about the enforcing of copyright laws. Look folks: you don't have the right to pirate software!! The only ones likely to dislike a crackdown on piracy are those who pirate!

This _SHOULD_ read... (1)

Realistic_Dragon (655151) | about 11 years ago | (#5647883)

'Developing countries cannot afford prohibitive MS licenses, and so have to steal it.' - After all the lower GDP is not the effect, but the cause.

To please the BSA lets all go to free software - after all it's kind of hard to pirate Linux.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...