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HP Calcs Live On Under PalmOS

timothy posted about 11 years ago | from the symbolic-replacement dept.

Handhelds 191

philipsblows writes "Emulators for HP Calcs have been around for a while, but HP is actually getting behind this one, allowing ROM images to be included to support emulation of 48sx, 48gx and 49g (all separately and at the same time) on your PalmOS device. Unfortunately, it has to be a color device, but this is great news anyone who would otherwise miss out on using an HP calc. Check out Power48 here." And unlike a calculator, the software is free (and Free).

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CSLib First Post!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716833)

The CSLib Menace Strikes again!

fp! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716835)

first post faggot fucker!

Re:fp! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716841)


The CSLib menace has you!

So it seem that are indeed the faggot fucker - hahah!!

rpn (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716839)

awww, yeah, rpn trolls in da house

Jesus Geeks Surrenders!! Here's our new JG anthem! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716840)

Jesus Christ's a bitch
He's a big fat bitch
He's the biggest bitch in the whole wide world
He's a stupid bitch if there ever was a bitch
He's a bitch to all the boys and girls
On Monday He's a bitch
On Tuesday He's a bitch
On Wednsday through Saturday He's a bitch
Then on Sunday, just to be different, He's a superkinkamayamayabeeatch
Have you ever met my friend Jesus Christ?
He's the biggest bitch in the whole wide world
He's a mean 'ol bitch and He has stupid hair
He's a big big big big big big bitch
Big big big big big big big bitch, He's a stupid bitch
Jesus Christ's a bitch and He's just a dirty bitch
For tons kids around the world it might go something like this:
(Weird Japenese stuff to the tune)
(Weird Dutch stuff to the tune)
(Weird African Tribe stuff to the tune)
Cartman: Have you ever met my friend Jesus Christ?
He's the biggest bitch in the whole wide world
He's a mean 'ol bitch and He has stupid hair
He's a big big big big big big bitch
(Other children: Gasp)
Big big big big big big big bitch, He's a stupid bitch
Jesus Christ's a bitch and He's just a dirty bitch
I really mean it
Jesus Christ, He's a big fat fucking biiiiiiitch
Big old fucking bitch ass faaaaaag

Re:Jesus Geeks Surrenders!! Here's our new JG anth (0, Troll)

malia8888 (646496) | about 11 years ago | (#5716939)

Then on Sunday, just to be different, He's a superkinkamayamayabeeatch Have you ever met my friend Jesus Christ? He's the biggest bitch in the whole wide world

Dear A.C. If you are going to post this off topic ba$tardization of my beloved South Park at least get the words right. "He's a super King Kamehameha beeatch" refers to a Hawaiian King. It may even be in this case an indicator of great size since this king was very tall and strong. The boys at South Park would not be amused.

malia, reppin' the 808

Re:Jesus Geeks Surrenders!! Here's our new JG anth (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5717524)

for you,

But (1, Interesting)

deadsaijinx* (637410) | about 11 years ago | (#5716842)

can it do reverse polish notation? Seriously, that would be so sweet.

Anywayz, I hate the Company Hewletcompagergishmess. Their computers are flaming shit piles. But there calcs rival Ti (some argue that they are far bettr) and it is totally cool that they are supporting emulation (unlike the console game industry - as if they are still making money off of the SNES!). But the coolest part is that it's OSS, so I could just program it to do reverse polish notation if i really wanted to.

FP (okay, first relavent post)?

Re:But (1)

deadsaijinx* (637410) | about 11 years ago | (#5716849)

Troll? I object to that. There is nothing trollish. A troll is someone who tries to get dumb replies by posting inaccurate info. Nothing here is inaccurate, and i was not trying to get dumb posts. I say that HP makes crappy comps because THEY do. I would know, I own some.

Re:But (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716880)

It's true. I have two, and they're utter pieces of crap. My 6475z died quickly and was slow when it was working, and my 760n started to become insanely unstable about half a year after I got it.

Re:But (2, Insightful)

afidel (530433) | about 11 years ago | (#5716938)

They also make one of the best corp pc lines around (the Vectra line is one of the most supportable pc's ever, remote management include BIOS updates etc, motherboards that can be removed and replaced in less than a minute on some models etc). Their workstations aren't all that bad either (if a bit expensive).

Re:But (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5717158)

I think you are a troll too. You obviously have never used an HP calculator and just typed a bunch of crap so that you could get first post.

Do they do reverse polish notation? - oh please, get a clue

Rival TIs?! - You really are clueless.

You sir, are a dumbass.

can it do reverse polish notation? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716850)

don't guess you've ever used a hp, huh?

Re:But (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716857)

TI calculators may have had better toy value than HP's, but they were never even close to HP's as calculators.

Sure, they were popular with highschool and college kids, but people who do real work with calculators are pretty much unanimously in favour of HP's. Of course, this is a small and shrinking group of people, which is why HP is out of the calc business.

One of my HP's is over 15 years old, has been dropped from a third story, has been in a lake, and still works perfectly. Try that with a TI (I have, and they didn't cut it).

HP also made the best programmers calc ever. Limited market for those, these days too.

Re:But (2, Interesting)

neurostar (578917) | about 11 years ago | (#5716978)

I completely agree. I love my HP48G. I wouldn't trade if for any other calculator. (Well, maybe for a 48GX ;) ). I love RPN. In fact, I've become so accustomed to it, I have difficulty using a TI-pile-of-shit when I'm forced to.

I also love the equation library. It's very useful, especially with the pictures.


Re:But (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5717443)

I don't know about that. I would not want to give up either my HP48 OR my TI89. And since neither of those are allowed in my math testing center, I bought a TI83. I love them all. I really, really, want a nice small RPN hp. An old one will do. But I don't want to give up ANY of my calcs, because they all have different strengths. I'm a math major, so that might have an effect on my assumptions.

Re:But (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5717016)

Interesting you mentioned TI calculator being dropped in a lake. As it so happens during my high school days I was at a summer camp and dropped my TI calculator in a nearby lake. The calculator die to say the least. Well my parent spent quite a bit of money on this calculator and it was the second calculator that I have destroyed/lost. I went to a K-Mart store and stole a brand new spanking TI calculator. Dumbass me wasn't aware at time that the damn thing had one of those things that sound the alarms. Next thing I know the alarm sounded. To make a long story short I had to make an appearance in front of a juvi judge and was sentenced to 40 hours of community service.
The moral of the story is that TI calculators die easily and don't get caught while stealing.

Re:But (2, Interesting)

Uber Banker (655221) | about 11 years ago | (#5717251)

I love my TI85. It's still going strong, sitting next to my monitor right now. Totally sentimental value.

I learnt to program on this thing for hell's sake! It still has the same programs i typed into it when i was 16... fractal generators, data calculation routines, inbuilt poly solver!, i even made a 2 player game with a friend via the commumication cable!!!

I never tried a HP, so can't compare, but damn I live my TI, it released my geekness, never harnessed, so will be forever grateful to TI.

Not sure I'd like an emulator though, the physical thing, the difficulty in typing, the display pitch... It was all in the package, give me 100 emulators and I'll still prefer my TI85.

Which TIs have you even played with? (2, Interesting)

pr0ntab (632466) | about 11 years ago | (#5717313)

I don't think you've been properly introduced to the better of the TI calcs... I've got 'em both:

A TI-83 which is overclocked... (!) Still works like a charm after having its guts ripped out repeatedly. Now, I didn't drop it in a lake, but it's been in the shower... so... hehe

And then, the workhorse, my beloved TI-89. Let me just say to all the HP holier-than-thou people out there: AOS ownz.
So it doesn't have RPN (but I remember seeing a few packages on ticalc.org)... but it does everything else. I mean jesus, it's a frickin' 68010.

I get real work done with it too... my main folder has about a hundred functions and programs sittin around; i forget what half of them do. ;P

Re:But (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716882)

"(unlike the console game industry - as if they are still making money off of the SNES!)"

Which is why you see Super Contra, Super Ghouls N' Ghosts, the entirety of the Super Mario series and Zelda III available for new on the shelves at Best Buy for GBA. Nope, not making a dime.

Re:But (1)

dakryx (646923) | about 11 years ago | (#5716913)

Hey now the gameboy advance plays many rereleased games from snes as its own now. I think the snes is the only console who would even have an argument against emulations

Re:But (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716950)

They also make kick-ass servers (check out their N-Classes). But I doubt you ever got to play with them.


Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5717055)

Finland will be the next hockey champion. Saku Koivun pelaaminen kahden viikon kuluttua alkavissa jääkiekon MM-kotikisoissa on lopullisesti varmistunut. Torstaina tehty kontrollimainen lääkärintarkastus vahvisti, että Koivua riivannut imusolmukesyöpä on kukistettu täysin. Lääkärintarkastuksen "negatiivisuus" poisti viimeisenkin esteen Koivun pelaamiselta MM-kisoissa. Koivu liittyy MM-leiriryhmään ensi tiistaina Vierumäellä. Koivun tulon vahvistuminen oli loistava tieto paitsi A-maajoukkueelle, myös miljoonille kiekkofaneille. Se nosti Suomen maailmanmestaruustoiveita ja -edellytyksiä taas yhden pykälän lähemmäksi. Innoissaan oli myös A-maajoukkueen päävalmentaja Hannu Aravirta. - Ei voi muuta sanoa kuin että upea juttu. Saku on Suomen johtava sentteri, ja nyt mies on kunnossa, samoin vakuutus. Onhan se aina bonusta, kun saadaan parhaat miehet mukaan.

FlameCalc (1)

SHEENmaster (581283) | about 11 years ago | (#5717200)

I'm working on a Java RPN calculator, here [frob.us]. I regularly use the console version on my Zaurus.

The upcoming version has loop structures and code objects to allow for more advanced scripting. Symbolic manipulation is planned for the future. I could use some help with this if anyone has Java or RPL math code they'd like to contribute.

Nice..... (2, Interesting)

Neophytus (642863) | about 11 years ago | (#5716851)

Now if only console manufacturers would get behind emulation development for vintage consoles. Sure, you can still buy games for the SNES on eBay or your local odds and ends store but none of that money will be going back to Nintendo or the developers.
Actually on thinking about it much of the nintendo GBA catalogue...

Re:Nice..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716883)

actually you can still buy Snes consnoles, accessories, and a ton of games at gamestop, babbages, etc. and people do still buy them. i would if it werent for emulators. kind of insane a snes controller is $10 though...

Sega does (0)

scourfish (573542) | about 11 years ago | (#5717225)

Sega bought the rights to an emulator called KGen98 and released it as the "Sega Smash Pack". It's pretty cheap to buy too, $10 new, but only works with the handful of encrypted roms that sega packaged with it.

First time I ever ... (2, Funny)

DogIsMyCoprocessor (642655) | about 11 years ago | (#5716853)

played Minesweeper was on a 48SX. Now I'm an MCSE.

Re:First time I ever ... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716911)

I'm sorry to hear that.

A color Palm isnt cheap (3, Interesting)

nurb432 (527695) | about 11 years ago | (#5716855)

For the price of ONE of those you can have a pocket full of REAL HP's...

But for those that have one already, its damned cool.

Though you cant really replace a *real* keyboard for lots of number crunching..

Re:A color Palm isnt cheap (1)

zenyu (248067) | about 11 years ago | (#5716902)

Though you cant really replace a *real* keyboard for lots of number crunching..

True, but if you were getting a good deal of use out of them the keyboard would have been shot by now. I was already considering my GX before my SX was stolen cuz the keys were getting mushy. These days I'm so used to mushy keyboards....

Re:A color Palm isnt cheap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716931)

The *X series keyboards sucked compared to previous calcs. Actually the whole caculator was a step down in robustness for HP, a sad thing.

I guess you can't really make a big screen 'robust', but the *X series were a disapointment that way

Re:A color Palm isnt cheap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716921)

You are right on target; RPN is only part of the reason that I use my 48gx and 42s. The main thing that I like about these calculators is that the keys feel great, and the calcs are comfortable in my hand. A pda will never be able to compete in this respect.

A color Palm is kinda cheap... (1)

Xebikr (591462) | about 11 years ago | (#5717001)

If you buy an SJ22 Sony Clie from Staples and use one of the $30 off $150 coupons [fatwallet.com] that are floating around. $170 + tax isn't too bad for sweet little PDA.

Apparently not on my PalmOS device... (3, Informative)

Fesh (112953) | about 11 years ago | (#5716856)

I've only got an m515, looks like this sucker will only work on a Tungsten or Clie.


Re:Apparently not on my PalmOS device... (1)

emag (4640) | about 11 years ago | (#5716980)

This is extremely disappointing. I guess I'll still have to use "RPN" as my calculator on my IIIc (which lacks the 320x320x16 screen needed by the emulator). Luckily, I *think* I still know where my 48GX is.

Re:Apparently not on my PalmOS device... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5717073)

Theres another good calc outthere for PalmOS. I thinks its name is "MathUPro" or something similar. It's not free but is the best i've tested.

Re:Apparently not on my PalmOS device... (1)

WegianWarrior (649800) | about 11 years ago | (#5717167)

Not on my m130 either - which was a disapointment. Looks like the emulator needs 320x320 pixels to work. Oh well, back to the accabus... unless I use the scentific calculator on my Psion5.

Lives on? (5, Interesting)

praxis (19962) | about 11 years ago | (#5716859)

I never realized that HP calculators died? Have they stopped selling them? Granted I've had my 48gx since 1995 and never looked at another calculator since then. What do people use these days? I've actually seen fewer calculators used as they get replaced with Matlab or Maple or Mathematica being more and more at hand for people, but I still find myself reaching for my 48gx even when I am near a computer just because they're so convenient.

Re:Lives on? (0)

Letter (634816) | about 11 years ago | (#5716943)

dear practice,

this was posted on slashdot.org [slashdot.org] on november 3rd. haven't you been paying attention?

keep trying,

Re:Lives on? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716992)

Well the editors can't recall stories posted hours previously (and the are paid....)
And you expect him to remember that.....

Re:Lives on? (5, Informative)

jorlando (145683) | about 11 years ago | (#5716952)

HP calculators still being sold, but nobody is sure for how long. There was thread discussed at hp.misc.calculators (that can be read at http://www.hpcalc.org). One thing is certain: the division responsible for R&D new HP calculators, the ACO has been closed during the merge with Compaq (http://www.hpcalc.org/goodbyeaco.php). In five years from now, HP will be recognized as a brand of so-so printers, shitty computers, not as an inovative and ingenious company as once has been. But that's the life... and Carly won't be near the mess... But that's my opinion...

Going, Going, Gone. (3, Informative)

Detritus (11846) | about 11 years ago | (#5717135)

While recently looking at HP's online store, I noticed the HP-48GX was listed as a "closeout" item. It appears that once the existing inventory of HP calculators are sold, HP will be out of the calculator business. Carly sucks.

"I'm not dead yet!" (1)

micron (164661) | about 11 years ago | (#5717241)

HP just introduced two low end calculator models.

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2003/030 12 3b.html

I have read in a few places that they have a high end one coming out closer to the end of the year.

New calculator division distributor expansion:
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/pres s/2002/02103 1a.html

Old. (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716868)

The 48GX and SX roms have been freely available (courtesy HP, of course) from www.hpcalc.org, and probably other enthusiast sites. It is interesting that HP is actually backing an emulator, though. Hey, where's that RPN troll when you need him???

Re:Old. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5717555)

I really doubt this is true. Historically they have frowned upon people making rom images available on line.

Back and White? (5, Informative)

negyvenot (582011) | about 11 years ago | (#5716869)

I am a bit disappointed that it does not work on monochrome devices like the good old Palm Vx, which I'm happily using for a long while now. The original HP48 display was monochrome and would perfectly look on my Palm. Now only if those keys weren't color :)

Re:Back and White? (1)

deadsaijinx* (637410) | about 11 years ago | (#5716898)

Well, it is OSS, so it may be possible for someone to hack at it till it functioned on a monochrome. But judging by the images on the site, it might not work out to well on monochrome displays.

Re:Back and White? (1)

Phork (74706) | about 11 years ago | (#5717197)

i tried to install it on my palm Vx even though it supposedly wouldnt run, and guess what, it didn't. Not only does it need a color display, but it needs special sony libraries.

Cool, but done already (4, Informative)

RzUpAnmsCwrds (262647) | about 11 years ago | (#5716871)

This is cool, but it's not new. There has been a HP 48/49G emulator for Windows CE for some time now. It even runs at an acceptable speed on the newer Pocket PCs. There has also been a Psion version.<br><br><a href="http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/emulators/">ht tp://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/emulators/</a>

Pocket PC absurdity (4, Interesting)

panurge (573432) | about 11 years ago | (#5716873)

HPQ sells pocket PC devices. This emulator runs on PalmOs.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the relevant bit of the HP marketing dept. Is this the start of something new? Is HP going to start bringing out PalmOs devices or Linux PDAs?
So few questions, so many answers.

Re:Pocket PC absurdity (1)

jorlando (145683) | about 11 years ago | (#5716994)

The relevant bit of HP marketing can't even remember that HP once ruled the calculators market, if not for profit margins, just to add finesse to that market... even the financial calculators ruled... the HP12c is 20 yrs old and couldn't be outdone even by other HP calculators (more powerful, like the 19b)... the 48 series was the dream of the engineering students (as the 28 eas before, and the 42, and the 41c...)

I think that these market droids think that the legal dept should sue that company that uses the HP logo in these handy calculators 'cause they are "diluting the HP's IP and brand value"

Re:Pocket PC absurdity (1)

Bingo Foo (179380) | about 11 years ago | (#5717009)

Uh, HP has nothing to do with this software, other than the fact that they relesed their ROMs when they stopped making calculators.

Maybe it's the lameness of the pocketPC software authoring community that allowed this to come to PalmOS first. There have been offical-HP-ROM based emulators for X11 and mac for some time now.

Re:Pocket PC absurdity (1)

RevAaron (125240) | about 11 years ago | (#5717024)

You can get HP calc emulators for PocketPC and WinCE as well. I was using one on an iPAQ over a year ago. I do not know how new this POS version is, but all the same, it isn't something you can do on WinCE/PPC and Linux PDAs already.

Why the hell would this emulator- not written or supported by HP- have anything to do with HP producing POS-based PDAs? It's like making the deduction that OH! Windows runs on my Mac using VPC or Bochs - I bet Apple will be dumping OS X and switching to Win 95 soon! OOHHHOO!

Re:Pocket PC absurdity (1)

Ptolemarch (11506) | about 11 years ago | (#5717032)

Well, it seems very likely to me that HP has nothing to do with this. HP calculator emulators are a very popular thing to make. There are emulators [hpcalc.org] for pretty much anything on which you want to emulate an HP calculator (and some you probably don't).

It's perfectly legal to make an HP calculator emulator, by emulating the processor inside, but you can't distribute the essential ROM images that make 'em work. At least, that's how it was, last time I checked. If you have your own HP calculator, though, you can dump the ROM for your own use, with no other restrictions (again, as far as I remember).

41CX (1)

mandrews (139863) | about 11 years ago | (#5716875)

I wonder if they will add support for the old 41CX? God I love that calculator (mine still works). I used it all through college and to this day my fingers have that keyboard memorized.

Cool, but why color ... (1)

HakuMage (580325) | about 11 years ago | (#5716886)

was a best calc the HP48* !
get plenty more softwares & games on palm ;)

way to go to get it on palm.
but i'm sad i can't it get work because have no display color. why such a restriction :(

dear icedick (-1, Offtopic)

Letter (634816) | about 11 years ago | (#5716887)

Dear Icedick,

I coded the <api> per Appendix 2 of the Digitalk manual, information from the SDK, and looking at WINDOWS.H. I get an invalid parameter error when invoking the method.

I have both a Windows question and a related Smalltalk question:

The fourth parameter to the call is suppose to be a flag that according to the SDK manual is relevant if I am SETting a value in the call, i.e. set the screen saver on. There is no reference to what it should be set to if I am doing a GET call. I have set it to a null string and to a 0 to no avail. Does anyone know what it should be set to, or if in fact it needs to be set ??

The related Smalltalk question is again about this parameter again. Appendix 2 goes over several matching parameters types between Smalltalk and C. In the SDK and in WINDOW.H that fourth parameter is coded as hex constant 0x0001 or a 0x0002. Does anyone know how it should be coded in Smalltalk ?? can you point to example in the base classes ??

Can anyone point me to some further documentation besides Appendix 2 and 4 of the Digitalk manuals about <api> calls and this problem of parameter matching ??

Thanks in advance for your help.

Hot Legs

Reverse Polish Notation and Stacking Languages (5, Interesting)

GregBildson (316305) | about 11 years ago | (#5716891)

As far as I know, the unique feature of HP calculators is that they use reverse polish notation by default so I expect that is what this one uses.

RPN is similar to stacking languages where the variables are pushed onto the stack first and then the operators are applied to the appropriate stack entries. So, a + b x c should be entered as b c x a + and (a + b) x c should be entered as a b + c x

Similar to other stacking languages like Postscript and SmallTalk.

Note that this should be the same as the desktop "dc" command on linux except that dc is only good for integers (and you need to enter "=" to see the result). I routinely add a few extra significant digits when using dc so that I can deal with fractional values. Works nicely occasionally when doing command line scripting.

dc is only good for integers?! (1)

emag (4640) | about 11 years ago | (#5716955)

Wow, if it's only good for integers, I wonder why they allow you to set the precision with "k", and why I routinely use it for decimals. As for displaying, I use "p". You should really take a look at the manpage sometime, or next you're gonna be saying it's only good for base10.

Re:dc is only good for integers?! (1)

GregBildson (316305) | about 11 years ago | (#5717110)

Thanks. You learn something new every day. That is what is nice about unix style commands. And, yes p is for printing the current top of stack not =.

You know I've read most man pages a fair number of times but there is always something to be missed. I should have known in this case since I always thought it was a glaring shortcoming but I've never seen the K used in practice.

Re:Reverse Polish Notation and Stacking Languages (1)

grahamkg (5290) | about 11 years ago | (#5716965)

Actually the 49 does not do rpn by default; algebraic is the default. I know, I have a 49G that I just checked. However, rpn can be set under the "MODE" function key.

RPN (1)

SHEENmaster (581283) | about 11 years ago | (#5717235)

is much faster to evaluate, especially on the 49g's 4mhz processor when doing symbolic shit.

Those who don't have a compatible palmtop can use FlameCalc [frob.us] if their pda supports Java. The development(next) release has enough features to do nearly all of my AP Physics stuff on my Zaurus, but loops/constructs are too unstable for a public release at the moment.

What I'd really love is Linux PDA in a graphing calculator case. I honestly don't care that it would be larger, a usable numeric keyboard would make up for that. It better have CF/SD and all the other goodies of course.

Re:Reverse Polish Notation and Stacking Languages (4, Informative)

Bishop (4500) | about 11 years ago | (#5717003)

The other unique feature of many of the HP calculators was the bomb proff design. The keys are tough clicky keys designed to be used by professionals for years. HP made scientific and bussiness calculators. On the HP calcs (11B ??) has as strong a following in the account world as the HP48 in the engineering/scientific world.

"dc" command on linux except that dc is only good for integers

You probably want to check the man page on that:

dc - an arbitrary precision calculator

Look for the 'k' command. Also you should be useing p not =.

'dc' is GNU software and should compile on anything with libc.

Re:Reverse Polish Notation and Stacking Languages (1)

martyn s (444964) | about 11 years ago | (#5717532)

I'm running OS X and I get my Unix stuff with fink. Anyway, when I check the man page for dc, it describes this calculator that you're talking about, but when i actually run "dc" it seems to be a different program.

Can you explain to me how to use dc? Give me a simple line of text to test it.

Re:Reverse Polish Notation and Stacking Languages (1)

Emil Brink (69213) | about 11 years ago | (#5717128)

Um, since other people have already corrected you on dc, I guess it's up to me to point out that you don't need to change the order of the operands with RPN. If you want to compute a+b*c, you enter "a b c * +". For different precendence, as you point out, you just change where you put the operator, but not the order of things.

Emulator may be free (Free), but the ROMs aren't. (1, Informative)

alanh (29068) | about 11 years ago | (#5716901)

This program emulates the hardware of the HP48SX, HP48GX, and HP49G. In order to legally (morally?) use this software, you need to have the ROMs, or develop your own equivalents. The ROMs are copyrighted by HP.

Re:Emulator may be free (Free), but the ROMs aren' (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716918)

OK, I know it's a lot of trouble to read the article, but the summary says:
HP is actually getting behind this one, allowing ROM images to be included to support emulation of 48sx, 48gx and 49g (all separately and at the same time)


Re:Emulator may be free (Free), but the ROMs aren' (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716956)

They're still owned by HP and thus not Free. HP could pull their support at any time.

Re:Emulator may be free (Free), but the ROMs aren' (1)

snubber1 (56537) | about 11 years ago | (#5717281)

Damn, does your neck hurt from that giant tinfoil hat or what?

Re:Emulator may be free (Free), but the ROMs aren' (2, Informative)

WegianWarrior (649800) | about 11 years ago | (#5717218)

Since reading the article isn't hard at all, you may notice that the article says;
The HP48/49 ROM images distributed with this emulator are the property of and copyrighted by Hewlett-Packard. Their inclusion in this package is for the convenience of the end-user only. If you (the end-user) are not legally permitted to use a particular ROM image you must not install that ROM image to the VFS storage mechanism.

What part of that did you fail to understand?

Re:Emulator may be free (Free), but the ROMs aren' (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5717426)

Bah. HP's obviously allowing them to be included, and obviously doesn't give a good god damn. Good for them. And if they should become unenlightened and later change their minds, it's too late. There are lots more important things to worry about then whether using a small ROM image is legal.

not only 'color device' (2, Informative)

MarcoAtWork (28889) | about 11 years ago | (#5716922)

but also with the new high definition screens (320x320 or higher) so people who have a IIIc (like myself) are SOL.

Ahhhhh memories (2, Funny)

rerunn (181278) | about 11 years ago | (#5716933)

The 48g was a godsend for me in university. This was before the masses knew anything about being able to store and retrieve any decent amount of text from a calculator. All my biochem formulas got neatly stored in a little app called YONPY or something like that (I think it stood for Ye old notepad). People supervising the exams had no clue -- prolly just thought I was a big geek with a calculator at least twice the size of others. I dont think you can get away with this now though.

Re:Ahhhhh memories (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5717466)

> I dont think you can get away with this now
> though.

Nope. You'd get kicked out of most schools for what you did. I needed to calm down a bit before replying. I would not appreciate being evaluated by the same criteria as you, since you cheated substantially. As a proctor in a testing environment, I would routinely reset all calculators, if I allowed them at all. My gut feeling is that your degree should be discredited. Not everybody cheats, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Oh, lighten up (3, Interesting)

swb (14022) | about 11 years ago | (#5717566)

First of all, anyone running a science class who thinks that forcing a bunch of rote formula memorization is "learning" isn't doing very much teaching.

Second of all, everybody that actually makes a living with math and science cheats every day, by referring to reference books, studies, conferring with others, and so on.

We should be teaching people how to *learn* by using reference materials, not waste storage neurons on things that are already written down.

FWIW, when I was in college (circa 1985), the physics teacher allowed us to bring in a 3x5 card with anything we want written on it. We got the guy with the best penmanship in our study group to write ALL the formulas we could think of, complete with notes, examples and so on on a 8x11 sheet of paper which we then reduced on a photocopier to 3x5.

Again, you could call this cheating, or you could give us credit for innovation.

Little problem... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5716969)

Woman seeking man for intercourse. Applicant must be willing to slather his penis with a slow burning combustable and ignite prior to insertion.

So much nerdy excitement! (1, Funny)

1nv4d3r (642775) | about 11 years ago | (#5716976)

Judging by the excitement, I think it's no coincidence that "under palm os" can be rearranged to spell "unload sperm."

Re:So much nerdy excitement! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5717529)

oh, come on mods!

This is funny~!

HP On Palm :P (1)

trotski (592530) | about 11 years ago | (#5716984)

It's not an HP calculator if it doesn't have a keypad; it just ain't the same thing. Plus, I can't exactly take a palm pilot into my exams now can I? It's the read thing for me.

I heard HP is supposed to be thinkinga bout releasing another calculator.... it's probably just stupid rumors however.

Releasing New Calc...I hope so (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5717236)

I sent an email to HP customer service, asking what they had for RPN calcs since I wanted a scientific RPN calc, but was too cheap to pay $150 or whatever.

In addition to pointing me to low-cost retailers, the reply hinted that there were going to be new models coming.

I hope that the calculator business doesn't die. I only like RPN calculators. I have a mangled 17BII on my desk and a 12C in the drawer. I want one to replace my 12C so that if the new one grows legs, I won't care as much.

That brings another reason I like RPN, no one can use it so no one is tempted to walk off with it.

What does this have to do with PalmOS? (1)

Dan East (318230) | about 11 years ago | (#5717052)

HP emulators are available for almost every platform you can imagine.

Dan East

Is this what they call progress??? (1)

nimrod_me (650667) | about 11 years ago | (#5717105)

There were times when I really liked my HP28S. It was cool and made my life in the university much easier.

However, anyway you look at it, any PDA being sold today is *much* more capable (except perhaps for the lack of a decent keyboard).

I mean, if you want to do numeric calculations just run a scaled-down version fo MATLAB (or Octave for those who prefer Free software).

If you need symbolic calculations run Derive, MuPad, Yacas or whatever...

All of these programs are much more capable than the HP calculators. It is also much easier to program them. The HP programming language (Forth-like) is really annoying.

So aside from the historical value and perhaps running some existing applications this not progress - quite the contrary.

Re:Is this what they call progress??? (1)

YodaToad (164273) | about 11 years ago | (#5717111)

But with those other programs you listed, do they have hundreds of applications written to do pretty much anything you can think of? I doubt it.
This is nice for people who have a palmos device but still need some of those programs but don't want to/can't carry around their large calculator.

So yeah, it is progress.

Does NOT work on most PalmOS devices... (3, Interesting)

Manuka (4415) | about 11 years ago | (#5717112)

I tried installing it on my colour palm, and it requires a High-res Palm device. This is pretty much a Clié-only application. Pity it doesn't work on my i300, since most palm-based calculator apps out there are fscking worthless.

Re:Does NOT work on most PalmOS devices... (1)

Rob Simpson (533360) | about 11 years ago | (#5717242)

Yeah, I'm not sure why the specs are so limited - even if it needs high-res for the keys, it should at least run in monochrome. The best palm-based calculator I've found is EasyCalc [freewarepalm.com], which runs on pretty much everything (it isn't RPN, though). I just wish there were portable keypads you could plug in like the portable keyboard - so the combined machine would still be around the size of a scientific calc and the numbers would be in a pattern that's actually usable. (All the keyboards I've seen for the palm just have the numbers along the top, which takes me longer to type than enter by tapping or graffiti.

Re:Does NOT work on most PalmOS devices... (2, Interesting)

Registered Coward v2 (447531) | about 11 years ago | (#5717550)

Try landware's FinCalc - a decent calc that does RPN and some scientific calcs. I used it on my PalmPilot Pro in B-school. (along with my HP48g and 11c.). I got the 48g for $20 as a demo unit, so it repalced my 41cv, which repalced my 45. Still have them all, even the plastic box and leather case for my 45. Ah, the memories...

HP Calcs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5717130)

Before HP retired their calculator division they were working on a brand new calculator that seemed pretty slick. They appeared to have some working prototypes of it out. It would be great if they released the ROM for that.

That being said, it's pretty sad that HP closed down the ACO. Their RPN calculators were top notch.

Observations on it.... (5, Informative)

shlong (121504) | about 11 years ago | (#5717170)

Well, it appears from most of the comments here that no one has actually test driven the program yet. Well, I just fired it up on my shiny new NX70V, and I got to say that I'm quite impressed. I already own a 48GX and 49G, so I had no moral delimmas with installing those rom images. I don't own a 48SX, so I can't comment on it. Anyways:
  • The speed is very impressive. I ran some of the TEACH examples on the 48GX mode and they fly. It's easily 2-3 times faster than the real hardware. Of course my hardware is StrongArm based, so I wonder how well the DragonBall hardware will work. Time to go dig out my wife's N760.
  • Button layout for the 48GX was nearly identical to the real hardware. Button layout for the 49G was a little strange, with the arrow keys being shoved off to the left side and the 6 function keys that used to be next to them compressed from 2 rows of three to 1 row of 6. Not a big deal, but tough to get used to.
  • As impressive as it is, I still prefer the feel of the real 48GX hardware. That machine was designed back when HP knew how engineers operated. Of course, I hate the 49G key layout and rubberized buttons, but that's a bikeshed of a different color. Anyways, even with the 320x480 screen, the buttons are a bit too small to comfortably work by finger-touch. Using the stylus is fine, but not like having the real buttons.
  • I haven't tried any 3rd-party programs. From reading the documentation I'd guess that things written in SysRPL and and UserRPL will probably work fine, but I wonder if ASM stuff will also work.

In all, I'm highly impressed with this, though it will take a few weeks to see if I treat it like a toy or a real calc.

HP11c 4EVA! (1)

Tumbleweed (3706) | about 11 years ago | (#5717283)

I don't know _what_ I'll do when my venerable HP11c finally bites the dust. I'm not a huge fan of the 12c.

I don't even like to _think_ about losing my 11c. *cringe*

Time to read a different Slashdot thread...

Easycalc.... (2, Informative)

sergio (35237) | about 11 years ago | (#5717285)

I had many HP calculators. Lved them all. Loved RPN.
Power48 is an impressive emulator... BUT:

1.- Start time is too long. Screen is too crowded and plain complicated for a PDA LCD.

2.- If you need a very good calculator use EasyCalc and you'll be happier at any resolution. http://easycalc.sourceforge.net/. Fast startup and
decent interface. Clearly not as programable nor a large library of tools, still very usable.

Now, here is the irony: HP should have been a king of the PDA arena using their experience in the calculator group... but somehow they become WinCE clone makers. Very sad. What happened?

Sci/Graph calc for Palm (2, Informative)

RomulusNR (29439) | about 11 years ago | (#5717460)

If all you want is a good scientific/graphing calculator for your Palm, get EasyCalc [sourceforge.net].
(It appears to be in English now, too. :) )
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