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Carmack On Doom III And The Evolution Of Graphics

timothy posted about 11 years ago | from the this-is-a-dedicated-team dept.

Games 586

Toasty16 writes "David Kushner over at Wired has a write-up on the progress of Doom III, hinting at a possible fall release, that is unless Microsoft convinces id to sit on the game until an Xbox version is completed. He also talks to Carmack about the evolution of game engines and the possibility of a "next-generation rendering engine [that] will be a stable, mature technology that lasts in more or less its basic form for a long time." Will this lead to a shift from coders to "technical directors," as Carmack believes? This ties into the Slashdot story awhile back about new titles for sysadmins."

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586 comments

Why Don't (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5746819)

girls like me?

Re:Why Don't (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5746851)

Because you sit on your ass all day whining to people on the Internet. Get up, get a life, meet some people and maybe you'll meet a nice girl who'll do nasty things to you.

Re:Why Don't (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5746878)

My mom says that I am just too good for those girls.
Maybe mom is right I should stay away from them.

Evolution is a lie. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5746823)

The graphics were created by God at the beginning of time!

Re:Evolution is a lie. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5746897)

In Soviet Russia God was created by graphics at the beginning of time!

Another new graphics engine.. (5, Funny)

grub (11606) | about 11 years ago | (#5746826)


Oh bloody hell, the Duke Nukem Forever people will want to start from square one again.

Re:Another new graphics engine.. (4, Funny)

k-0s (237787) | about 11 years ago | (#5746879)

Start you say? They've actually started? LOL

Re:Another new graphics engine.. (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5747025)

of course they did, and they even have achived something [3drealms.com]

Re:Another new graphics engine.. (2, Insightful)

(54)T-Dub (642521) | about 11 years ago | (#5747031)

Wouldn't it be nice if game manufactures would stop re-inventing the wheel everytime they want to make a game. Instead they could spend time making a stable mod of a proven engine. I mean half-life and counter-strike are arguably the two of the most succesfull first person shooter games ever made, and they were based on a mod of the Quake 1 engine.

But instead we get games like tribes 2 and battlefield1942 which are great idea's with horrible implementation. Who coincedes the first patch with the release date of the game?!?!?! Then release patches that create more servere bugs than were fixed.

I understand that the companies are under high pressure from their publishers to get something out to start earning revenue. It just seems to me that games would be made in a shorter timeline and cheaper if they were based on a proven 3d engine.

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because (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5746832)

you read slashdot you nerd!

Typical (0, Troll)

The Dobber (576407) | about 11 years ago | (#5746837)


Had to work an MS slam into it. Oh wait, Timmy was the editor.

Figures

Re:Typical (4, Interesting)

RatBastard (949) | about 11 years ago | (#5746872)

Actually, the XBox delay angle has been reported on several places, including very pro-MS/pro-XBox sites.

Re:Typical (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5746922)

Yeah and so has the "If we released it today, noone would have a system capable of playing it and we'd go bankrupt" angle.

The very fact that they have to release it for xbox shows a huge shift over there at Id. PC gaming is dying, they need console revenue to break even with this dog.

I cant wait until another FPS comes out. Whoopty do. I can shoot monsters.

Re:Typical (1)

Overly Critical Guy (663429) | about 11 years ago | (#5746945)

It's all speculation, and really all we know is that Microsoft has likely been pushing id for an X-Box exclusive.

Re:Typical (2, Informative)

BigBir3d (454486) | about 11 years ago | (#5747073)

RTFA

But id could pocket some cash from Microsoft. Redmond keeps calling, trying to convince the company to release a version of Doom III for the Xbox: "We're being offered a pretty significant amount of money to sit on it until an Xbox port is done," says Carmack. id hasn't announced a decision yet.

Re:Typical (1)

unicron (20286) | about 11 years ago | (#5746960)

I've got an X-Box, and I think it would be pretty damn cool. We've already demonstrated that an FPS can work well on the X-Box(Halo), so why couldn't Doom3? It'll have net play without a doubt, so what would really be missing? Hell, I think I would be MORE happy without net play..just a really fun single player campaign. I seriously doubt I'll miss any of the "Stup1d 4wP-c4mp1n6 wh0r3!" bullshit.

"We've already demonstrated" - er NO! (2, Insightful)

DrSkwid (118965) | about 11 years ago | (#5746979)

We've already demonstrated that an FPS can work well on the X-Box(Halo)

I'd take a minute to re-assess that "self evident truth".

FPS are mouse games, pure and simple.

Two analogue joysticks does not a mouse make

Re:"We've already demonstrated" - er NO! (1)

deadsaijinx* (637410) | about 11 years ago | (#5747062)

I remember a while back there was a way to make a keyboard and mouse for your XBox posted on here :
http://xbox-linux.sourceforge.net/
of course, they don't work on any of the games, but MS may eventually support it. After all, PS2 has a keyboard and mouse.

Personally, I hate the XBox controllers for FPSs, except for Splinter Cell. Keyboard and mouse are useless on Splinter Cell, you need a gamepad.

Course, I'm not drooling over the XBox port for two reasons: 1) I play games on my PC where I can jack up the resolution and download level mods and design my own skins; and 2) all those perty DX9 effects don't exist on the XBox, making the true glory and splendor of DOOMIII a non-existant on the XBox.

Re:"We've already demonstrated" - er NO! (1)

unicron (20286) | about 11 years ago | (#5747080)

FPS is a vantage point, not an input device. Halo, with the possible exception of Half-Life, is the best single player FPS ever made.

Re:Typical (1)

sixdotoh (584811) | about 11 years ago | (#5746908)

It is pretty annoying that we're having to wait until the x-box version is ready, but whose fault is this? Wouldn't it be iD dragging their feet on the xbox port?

not that i'm trying to *diminish* the MS potshot . . . ;)

Re:Typical (2, Funny)

Toasty16 (586358) | about 11 years ago | (#5746933)

All anti-M$ sentiments were my own, my views do not reflect the views of Slashdot or its admins.

Wait a minute, yes they do!

Anyway, getting a story submitted on Slashdot is almost as cool as getting my letter printed in PCXL. Cool is a relative term, BTW.

Re:Typical (4, Insightful)

anon*127.0.0.1 (637224) | about 11 years ago | (#5746937)

Well, the article *does* quote Carmack as saying that Microsoft is offering Id a boatload of money to sit on the PC release of D3 until they've got an XBox port ready for release at the same time. Seems to me that thats one of the more significant news bits in the story, along with Carmacks musings that he might be out of a job soon.

I guess Microsoft figures a lot of gamers will be upgrading their hardware when D3 comes out. If the XBox version is ready at the same time, those gamers might decide to buy themselves an XBox instead of sinking $300 into another new video card.

Re:Typical (1, Insightful)

sixdotoh (584811) | about 11 years ago | (#5746965)

so is that really proving a MS monopoly, or is it just shrewd marketing on MS's part. I mean, given that MS *has* the boatloads of money, does that mean they shouldn't do it because some others can't? I mean, the whole MS monopoly arguement aside (and I do not like MS), this is capitalism and its a great, free country.

Re:Typical (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5747053)

Nevermind that Sony does exactly the same thing...

Re:Typical (1)

angle_slam (623817) | about 11 years ago | (#5747015)

I guess Microsoft figures a lot of gamers will be upgrading their hardware when D3 comes out. If the XBox version is ready at the same time, those gamers might decide to buy themselves an XBox instead of sinking $300 into another new video card.

Playing an FPS on a controller sucks compared to playing with a keyboard/mouse combo. For that reason alone, I'd rather buy a new video card than an XBox. Plus, while there are $300 video cards, you can get pretty good results from a $200 card.

Re:Typical (1)

MendicantMonkey (649859) | about 11 years ago | (#5747102)

Even if the Xbox goes to less than $200, I would go so far as to say that since it supposed to play okay on a Geforce 3, you might get good results from a $99 card this fall. Maybe not with all the eye-candy turned on, but I bet it would give the Xbox version a run for the money.

How does it tie to the older story? (3, Insightful)

poisoneleven (310634) | about 11 years ago | (#5746839)

I guess I don't quite see how this ties into the older story about new titles for Sysadmins. Technical Directors have been around a long time, and have always existed in the game creation arena. It isn't just some new spin on Sysadmin or Computer user or something.

Re:How does it tie to the older story? (0)

Toasty16 (586358) | about 11 years ago | (#5746909)

I dunno, I just noticed that most accepted Slashdot stories have at least 3 links, and linking to previous Slashdot stories seems to be popular. I guess the best way to answer your question is, "because timothy thinks so."

Re:How does it tie to the older story? (5, Funny)

telstar (236404) | about 11 years ago | (#5746998)

"I guess I don't quite see how this ties into the older story about new titles for Sysadmins."
  • I think he just wanted to show that he actually searched for
  • something prior to posting the article.

Re:How does it tie to the older story? (1)

RayOfLight (266465) | about 11 years ago | (#5747052)

I guess I don't quite see how this ties into the older story about new titles for Sysadmins.

So much for editors reading and understanding past stories before submitting new ones. ;-)

Great, let's extend Microsoft's monopoly... (2, Interesting)

hwsquaredcubed (527387) | about 11 years ago | (#5746846)

...to individual games. Kind of flies in the face of the whole Doom spirit of "let's release the code and let the gamers develop their own levels, etc."

extinct coders? (1, Offtopic)

sixdotoh (584811) | about 11 years ago | (#5746863)

Is it really possible that programmers would ever become extinct (at least in some sense)? Will this eventually come down to another man vs. machine battle? I think it has been proved enough times that the ingenuit and creativity of the human mind can create more efficient, reliable products than any machine. And I think such a product is far more valuable even if it takes longer to produce.

Can't wait to hear more about a next-generation renderer(spelling? ;) though. I've heard pretty cool stuff about Doom III . . .

mod parent down (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5746900)

it's off topic...

Re:mod parent down (2, Insightful)

sixdotoh (584811) | about 11 years ago | (#5746939)

well to get even more offtopic, why are going around snitching to mods? jealous cause you don't have your own mod points, or just like playing police or what . . .

i really don't get ppl whining about posts . . . this is the internet

there goes my cred . . .

ATTENTION MODERATORS! MOD PARENT DOWN! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5746978)

Parent contains a hidden link to Tubgirl [tubgirl.com] !

Re:extinct coders? (1)

Thud457 (234763) | about 11 years ago | (#5746993)

Yeah, I remember when "The Last One" was released for the Apple II. It was a database program generator with the termerity to claim that it was the last piece of software you'd ever need. It put the whole software industry out of work!

Re:extinct coders? (1)

OldFart58 (663547) | about 11 years ago | (#5747094)

Coders will become extinct, in one sense, if and when Man _becomes_ the Machine (for an explanation, google on 'singularity' and 'vinge', or if you just want the /. perspective, try slashdot [slashdot.org] itself).

But even then, Ubër-Carmack will (hopefully) be crafting the Doom XXV Engine for the delight of the Gestalt.

Have fun!

OldFart 8-)

What's the point? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5746887)



I read this stuff in Wired a week or two before its posted on slashdot. Pick up a subscription to Wired magazine. Do yourself a favor, a lot less trolls than /. thats for sure.

Don't freak out just yet (4, Informative)

DrPascal (185005) | about 11 years ago | (#5746889)

The Carmack specifically says at the end of the article that he's going to make another engine after this one (perhaps years later, but still). Don't let the post/article up top make you think that he's going to stop programming once this is done.

DrSuess - the spelling meister (0, Offtopic)

DrSkwid (118965) | about 11 years ago | (#5746996)

DrPascal: Not the language, the mathemetician.

I guess you meant mathematician

Re:DrSuess - the spelling meister (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5747090)

DrSkwid: DrSuess - the spelling meister

I guess you meant DrSeuss

Fall? (2, Interesting)

stratjakt (596332) | about 11 years ago | (#5746893)

Seems to me their waiting for hardware that can run it to become more commonplace. I mean, the game has to be completed by now.

The engine may be great, but so far as the game itself, I predict the letdown of the year. This game is already wayyyy overhyped. In the end it'll be just another pretty shoot'em-up.

Oh well. Have fun in outer space, Mr Carmack.

Re:Fall? (4, Interesting)

deadsaijinx* (637410) | about 11 years ago | (#5746986)

actually, a game that will be as played as DoomIII should have a VERY long bug-fixing cycle (whicah may account for some of the delay). Next, we already know it's just a pretty FPS, after all, it has the same story as the original Doom. But, it will be VERY nice graphics, and that is what most is the hype is about, the pictures. After all, id is known for the simplicity of their games. OTOH, from what I've seen, in addition to the graphics, there are some nice gameplay innovations (the PDA) and the sound is supposed to scare the shit out of you.

My question is how the hell is there supposed to be an XBox port of DOOMII. I mean, if you need a radeon9700 pro just to get the nice graphical goodies, how is an XBox supposed to churn out anything resembling the PC release?

Re:Fall? (2, Insightful)

sixdotoh (584811) | about 11 years ago | (#5746999)

pretty shoot'em-up.

It may just be that, but from what I've heard, it contains some very good physics (e.g. bodies falling down individual stairs), and new dynamic lighting effects.

So, if it does end up being another lame shoot 'em up (and the story sounds pretty lame/stupid to me), perhaps it will at least provide a good new base for some really good games to build on.

Doom III demo (2, Interesting)

obotics (592176) | about 11 years ago | (#5746903)

Has anyone on /. got the Doom III demo to run smoothly? My friend has a relatively new AMD Athlon XP 2100+ with 512 megabytes of RAM on an ASUS nForce 2 motherboard, and he was getting like 2 frames per second or something ridiculous. The zombies were mawling him before he could even move his gun!!! It was funny, because in the intro we would here scary monster noises, but the graphic of the monster wouldn't be displayed until about 1 minute later. That is how far behind the graphics got behind the sound! But I must say that the graphics were beautiful.

ps this is on Windows 2000 with dx9.

Re:Doom III demo (3, Interesting)

stratjakt (596332) | about 11 years ago | (#5746991)

Tell your friend to buy a Radeon 9700, as the demo was leaked from an ATI booth at Comdex, and was specifically written to run on that set of hardware. (And multi-cpus as well, I believe it was kludged to run the sound code on a second proc)

I've heard of people getting 20fps with the 9700, with only humble (1.4ghz, 512megs ) system specs.

But this is really the type of question you should pose to the local 0-day w4r3z kiddies.

Re:Doom III demo (5, Funny)

AKnightCowboy (608632) | about 11 years ago | (#5747002)

Has anyone on /. got the Doom III demo to run smoothly? My friend has a relatively new AMD Athlon XP 2100+ with 512 megabytes of RAM on an ASUS nForce 2 motherboard, and he was getting like 2 frames per second or something ridiculous.

Well, don't expect it to run smoothly on such an old piece of crap computer. Try upgrading to a Quad P4-3GHz system with the best ATI Radeon you can buy and you MIGHT get 15fps if you're lucky. You can't expect a piece of artistic genius like Doom III to run on crappy commodity PC hardware can you? To get the real performance you need to buy an Xbox.

Re:Doom III demo (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5747006)

I wouldn't think that it's that odd, considering it's a leaked alpha and not a demo...

Re:Doom III demo (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5747033)

I have a P4-2.53Ghz, 1GB PC1066 RDRam, and Radeon 9700Pro and I get about 30-40fps at 800x600.

Check out here: http://www.evem.org.au/evem/archives/games/doom_3_ alpha_help.html

and here: http://doomiii.tv/doom_3_alpha_info.php

for info on improving performance.

Posting as AC to avoid DMCA prosecution.

Re:Doom III demo (1)

obsid1an (665888) | about 11 years ago | (#5747098)

You need a computer similiar to the specific one it was written for. This includes a 2.4Ghz P4 and Radeon 9700. This was unoptomized code written for a single computer to make a demo which means it only needed 30fps. Not to mention it was leaked over a year before the game is expected to be released. Don't expect the alpha to be a reflection of the final version.

Evidently (2, Insightful)

CausticWindow (632215) | about 11 years ago | (#5746904)

We've been seeing this for quite some time already. Developers buying completed engines and building their game around that, instead of doing everything from line 1.

Guess it makes sense if you can get a decent engine, that fit your needs, for less money than it would've taken to write it yourself. Real coders still want to do it all by themselves, of course :)

Now maybe we can reap the benefit of this soon, with some games actually centering on gameplay, rather than cool rendering techniques. If I want nice effects, I'll rather watch a demo [scene.org] .

Re:Evidently (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5747010)

Now maybe we can reap the benefit of this soon, with some games actually centering on gameplay, rather than cool rendering techniques.

We can do this right now, there are plenty of fun games out there that dont use Doom 3's engine.

Publishers are clamoring for the new engine precisely for the cool rendering techniques, because quite frankly, eye candy sells games.

"Garagistes" in Motor Sport (0, Offtopic)

DrSkwid (118965) | about 11 years ago | (#5747029)

Garagistes [net192.com]

A bunch of guys that buy a chassis, an engine, a gearbox & some tyres & just build the stuff that goes round them.

Ferrari disliked them because he built the whole she-bang, chassis, gearbox the lot.

bored with first person shoot em ups (4, Insightful)

Brigadier (12956) | about 11 years ago | (#5746911)



Is anyone else a bit dissappointed that the focus on games seems to be the rendering engine and the color depth and frame rates. Doom/Quake sorta started all the emphasis on 3d graphics. I miss the old days of plain old gameplay. Games such as Zelda, Everquest, civilization really are the pinnacle of gaming for me. I like everyone else used to stay at work late so we could have a lan party playing doom, and quake CTF and download the latest patches and maps. However the concept has not changed since day one. shoot everything that moves. make a team and shoot everyone that moves. I think it's time the game concept and story line be updated.

Re:bored with first person shoot em ups (1)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | about 11 years ago | (#5746989)

> Is anyone else a bit dissappointed that the focus on games seems to be the rendering engine and the color depth and frame rates.

No ;-) Vertex Shaders, and a floating-point framebuffer are a god-send in real-time graphics.

Back on Target:
Check out Serious Sam 1 & 2. Tons of monsters, and some REALLY BIG ones. It's a blast.

> I like everyone else used to stay at work late so we could have a lan party playing

BF1942 & Mohaa are what we're playing nowadays. Give it a shot (pardon the pun ;-)

You can be Josh Hartnett! (1)

Kibo (256105) | about 11 years ago | (#5747019)

You might like Black Hawk Down. Much of the team games are stalking, and shooting anything that's not on your team, and one solid shot gets a kill. So instead of hording weapons, it's more about detecting the target before the target detects you.

Re:bored with first person shoot em ups (2, Interesting)

colinramsay (603167) | about 11 years ago | (#5747021)

IMO, Quake 3 was id's last shot at a straight out graphics led FPS. They perfected fast gameplay too (or nearly). Doom 3 will probably see them try out for something new, I really don't think that a company which includes someone as intelligent as Carmack is going to let themselves get trapped in a dead end with no-gameplay eye candy games.

I'm betting on a next-gen Doom 3 which isn't just fancy graphics - I think id are a company which is clever enough to sense the shifts in the industry. As Q3 showed the way for deathmatch, D3 will show the way for the new direction in FPS.

I hope :)

Everquest? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5747070)

[quote]Games such as Zelda, Everquest, civilization really are the pinnacle of gaming for me.[/quote]Everquest is DikuMud with a GUI and its gameplay is about on par in design as a 1970's-era pencil-and-paper RPG, so I don't understand how this fits in with your deprecation of graphics technology.

Re:bored with first person shoot em ups (5, Insightful)

ansonyumo (210802) | about 11 years ago | (#5747079)

Hear hear.

However, I will take a different tact than you. I miss the simplicity of side scrollers, bottom shooters, etc. These were great little 5-30 minute diversions that didn't require reading a user's guide. There was also a lot of creativity that went into the design of the better entries in this lot. Q*Bert, Tron, Pac Man, Donkey Kong, Track and Field, Zaxxon, Defender, Robotron and Tetris (among others) were all groundbreaking games when they debuted. Sure, you can find all of these titles in various "museum" releases or on the emulators, but it would be cool to see what could be done with this genre using today's technology and wizardry.

On the more cerebral front, I really enjoyed the Infocom games. Pretty cool that they have them all for the z machine on Palm OS.

-brian

Re:bored with first person shoot em ups (2, Insightful)

amberspry (596952) | about 11 years ago | (#5747109)

Don't forget strategy games. Very popular and only playable on the PC. Starcraft for example has been very popular and has had a very long run and was not a FPS. You also mention civilization, another great strategy game. There are other great games other there that have nothing to do with FPS gameplay.

Typically they do not get as much press, or are developed for console gaming. However, if you are not looking at the places these games are advertised then you will never hear about them. If you never watch TV how would you know the different from one show to the other?

Look at all the gaming sites out there. There must be games that do not fall under the FPS category people enjoy. Otherwise nothing else would be developed, because no one would buy them.

Doom for Linux (0, Offtopic)

Zelet (515452) | about 11 years ago | (#5746914)

Are they releasing doom for linux? Sorry for the offtopic post.

Later,
John

Graphics Engines (5, Interesting)

steesefactor (563098) | about 11 years ago | (#5746928)

One of the most interesting parts of the article was Carmack's speculations about graphics engines. He sees the graphics engines getting to the point where new ones are no longer needed. After dynamic lighting, how much is there left to do besides minor refinements and optimizations? Carmack remarks that graphics engines will eventually only be done by hardcore enthusiasts. Anyone think that he's right?

Re:Graphics Engines (2, Insightful)

Steveftoth (78419) | about 11 years ago | (#5747012)

I think that we've already reached that point. I mean quake III is more then enough to build a killer game. The real problem is the lack of good AI engines. That allow you to build interactive worlds of beings who behave to a certain set of rules.

How do you build AI? I don't know but there has to be a better way then the current way we have now. Most games don't have good AI.

For example, look at Zelda:WW, one of the coolest games out this year. Very good graphics, good art, good design. Very fun game. But the AI is so limited. All the townspeople walk pre-set paths. The baddies walk preset paths and are triggered dumbly. Pathing is bad, but hidden by the fact that the baddies only appear in limited areas. Most areas to fight in are large open arenas. Not closed areas with lots of corners and walls. The few fights that are in closed areas you end up fighting bats and other flying creatures.

Ok I could go on, but I hope you get my point. This game is a AAA quality title, most games are no where near the quality of this game. Yet the AI is bad. You could counter this example with another, but if you were to take this argument to it's end I think that you woudl find that the number of games with good AI is miniscule compared to the games with bad AI. Which is why online gaming is so popular. It's the only place where you can get good competition that doesn't suck.

I'll Pass On Doom III (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5746931)

I won't be playing a game with demons and other evil elements. IMO, I'll pass on this garbage. I don't care how beautiful a game looks if it has such satanic crap inside it negates any good qualities any graphics and sound may offer, IMO. As they say, garbage in garbage out. People can rant on about how video games can't affect one's mind but studies have shown that what you watch (and play) do affect you. That's fact. Those who worship their ego and deny anything spiritual are some of the people likely to laugh at my remarks and anyone else who shares similar feelings towards violent video games. It's funny though that science has proven that there is much more to discover that's invisible which can include angels, God, demons, and the devil. Once viruses and bacteria were invisible to the naked eye and thoughts of "something invisible" causing a disease could be thought of as lunacy. Science has discovered these invisible realities and we have much more to yet uncover. Like the lunatics that existed and future generations that eventually discovered, revealed, and proved the invisible to the naked eye viruses that cause disease, so those who have faith in the invisible realities such as angels and demons are sometimes laughed at or ignored but will one day be appreciated for their faith.

IMO, I will not let 3d demons be a part of my entertainment, which only serves to bring those demons which do exist even closer.

To Doom III or not to Doom III (1)

confused philosopher (666299) | about 11 years ago | (#5746934)

That is the question.

"Will this lead to a shift from coders to "technical directors," as Carmack believes?"

Confused Philosopher says:
No.

How long could an Xboxen version take? (5, Informative)

frovingslosh (582462) | about 11 years ago | (#5746947)

that is unless Microsoft convinces id to sit on the game until an Xbox version is completed.

The X thing is basically a PC running a form of you-know-what OS, with a Nvidia graphics processor, that you likely have to program with a well know M$ API the code already works on. How long could it take to get it running on the X-box if it's ready for Windows? Sure, there are differences, but I wouldn't expect any significant changed for an x-box port. Just add some code to let it reload saved games and/or boot Linux and it will be a sure winner.

Re:How long could an Xboxen version take? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5747044)

Doom III uses OpenGL. I don't know if Xbox supports it.

Re:How long could an Xboxen version take? (4, Interesting)

stratjakt (596332) | about 11 years ago | (#5747075)

You're right. Plenty of games have been ported to xbox, or from xbox to PC, and it didn't take years or months to do so.

The game isnt out because noone can run it. It's that simple. It still looks like it's going to require a $400 video card to be playable. I'm not talking super enhanced 2048x1024 with every bell and whistle on, I'm talking to get 30fps at 800x600 you'll need a GeForceFX or R9700.

The market for games that require a 300-400 dollar upgrade just ain't there.

I'm reminded of another FPS from years back (cant think of the name of it, but it was some highly touted Jurassic Park thing) that required a P2, when P2's were brand new and most people still had P200/MMX's. It bombed, because noone could play it, and by the time they had a system to play it on - it was old news.

The same thing would happen if Doom 3 came out today. I wouldnt be able to play it. By the time I buy a new video card, Doom 3 would be old news, and I'd never buy it. Because lets face it, FPS games are in a 'flavor of the week' scene.

Perhaps I'm wrong, and they've gotten the engine to scale down to be playable on average systems. But I'm pretty sure that's a major factor in the wait.

Re:How long could an Xboxen version take? (1)

BigBir3d (454486) | about 11 years ago | (#5747116)

Slow proc and vid card in the XBOX dude... gotta compensate somehow.

Game's Grafik engines - great! (1)

CharonX (522492) | about 11 years ago | (#5746954)

I must say the evolution of grafik engines for games is astouning - from the humble Wolfenstein 3d engine (hmm.... another id product) over Unreal, Quake, Unreal Tournament, to finally UT 2003/Unreal 2 and Doom 3 sometime (hmmm... I'd really love to see Duke Nukem Whenever's engine sometime :p)
Its astouning how powerful these engines have become, and how they often allow programmers to concentrate on what really counts - the gameplay! (HL - Counterstrike anyone?)

Why not just reprint Wired? (4, Interesting)

Trifthen (40989) | about 11 years ago | (#5746956)

Seriously... This is like the fifth or sixth story from this month's Wired that's been posted to Slashdot. I got it in the mail and read all of these articles weeks ago, and yet they're still slowly rolling in. At this rate, Slashdot will have summarized each Wired article in the current issue individually over the course of the month.

Can't people just go to Wired and read the articles that interest them?

Re:Why not just reprint Wired? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5747057)

Why not just reprint the NYT?
March had 39 stories from the NYT.
April has had 19 in the 16days so far.

Re:Why not just reprint Wired? (1)

sixdotoh (584811) | about 11 years ago | (#5747067)

no. we are mindlessly drawn to /. compelled to read the next story, reading the mystical trolls about timothy. pale

Someone hit me (3, Funny)

ralico (446325) | about 11 years ago | (#5746957)

I sometimes get Carmack and Romero confused. When I hear Carmack, I think Daikatana [google.com] , and this time thought, "Great, Doom III will never be released. But then I realized, he's not Romero.

The Smell of Mediocrity (1)

elwoodblues16 (666185) | about 11 years ago | (#5746970)

Does anyone else smell Daikatana?

Re:The Smell of Mediocrity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5747113)

Uh...NO! Carmack always delivers the goods. Romero is an ass and not that great of a coder.

Just to reiterate (1)

I Am The Owl (531076) | about 11 years ago | (#5746983)

Yeah, I guess you guys really are just ripping articles from the new monthly of Wired. Jeez, at least do some news or something else we couldn't find on a newsrack in the past two weeks.

Is that a complement? (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about 11 years ago | (#5746985)

The article states:

Today, at a time when few applications stretch the capabilities of a $500 PC, Carmack creates programs that require high-end systems.

I can do that, just right really bad code. Not hard. I'm not saying this is what Carmack does, but it's hardly a complement to his coding abilities...

Progress (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5746997)

possibility of a "next-generation rendering engine [that] will be a stable, mature technology that lasts in more or less its basic form for a long time.

It seems that the current lifespan of game engines is 4-5 years. I would hope that in that time period enough new developments would be made to warrant the design of an entirely new engine.

Wired (1)

Grieveq (589084) | about 11 years ago | (#5747007)

If there was no wired.com, Slashdot's front page would be half the size. Maybe just have a big link at the top of the page that says "Fellow nerds, go here."

Good job (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5747030)

You managed to squeeze in an anti-Microsoft comment!

Is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#5747039)

this [big-baby.org] John Carmack?
Or just a cool looking MotherFucker.

HEINEKEN! FUCK THAT SHIT! ---PABST BLUE RIBBON...

Gaming after Photorealism (3, Interesting)

Vegan Pagan (251984) | about 11 years ago | (#5747041)

How will game companies lure us after graphics become photorealistic? More variety? Better physics or AI? Games for girls and the elderly? Content on demand? More team play? Player-created content? Better sound? Better inputs? More handhelds than just Game Boy?

he won't be out of his job for a long while... (1)

Alpha_Nerd (565637) | about 11 years ago | (#5747051)

Even when graphically game engines do reach a plateau, the need for coders in the gaming industy won't be over with. Graphics are only part of the need for realism... I believe it will still be a very long time before games are fully dynamic.

Just imagine a game that you can litterally do [i]anything[/i]in the game's world! The perfect game would have the capability to create a world to the extent of Star Trek's holodeck. I'm talking more about on a 2d monitor however... But what's next?? Perhaps som sort of neural interface that would let you see, hear, feel, taste, and smell everything?? This to me seems much more possible than an actual holodeck.

Powerful enough? (3, Interesting)

BigChigger (551094) | about 11 years ago | (#5747059)

Doom III sounds like it will need mega powerful machines to look decent. Will the PIII 700 in the xbox be enough?

BC

Here's a dumb question. (2, Funny)

teamhasnoi (554944) | about 11 years ago | (#5747064)

Could D3 be made to run on two or more boxes - a beowulf cluster, if you will (I know I'll take a hit for even mentioning that)?

If this is going to require me to buy new hardware, I'm out for now. However, if I could use *all* my machines to process it, I'm in. Wouldn't it be like running a dedicated server, except single player?

I have a feeling that D3 on my current hardware would be like playing myst on a 286. Screensavory!

Terminator III sucked. (1)

sjonke (457707) | about 11 years ago | (#5747071)

There's supposed to be something funny here that points out that Doom III is another in the line of identical games that all ma

Steve

I wonder (1)

lexcyber (133454) | about 11 years ago | (#5747089)

Does this "Make a 3d engine that will last a long time" have anything to do with the fact that microsoft has announced directx9 to be de defacto standard for gamedevelopment for comput... I mean windows for a long time? I like to think so.

Can anything good come from Louisiana? (1)

sprprsnmn (619113) | about 11 years ago | (#5747105)

I have always enjoyed the fact that the creators of DOOM are from my hometown. In fact, Romero graduated from my roommate's highschool. Little trivia like that always pays off sometime.

It has also always amused me that these guys basically wrote their first games while they were supopsed to be working. Makes you think it just might be okay to read the occasional slashdot post at work, eh?
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