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DARPA Grant Cancelled for OpenBSD and U-Penn?

CowboyNeal posted more than 11 years ago | from the change-of-heart dept.

Security 653

Starrider writes "It seems the DARPA grant for OpenBSD and for University of Pennsylvania has been cancelled (?) immediately and without warning. See the full story in Theo's email and on deadly.org." Theo is left to only speculate why funding was suddenly pulled. One also has to wonder what this means for the University of Pennsylvania, since they were also in for a piece of the pie.

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653 comments

The West Wing is Back (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5755929)

With a sniper attack and Matthew Perry is a whitehouse lawyer!

Please try to keep posts on topic. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5755957)

Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated.

Re:Please try to keep posts on topic. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756140)

And the Pope might be Catholic.

How's it goin Theo? (0, Insightful)

Erect Horsecock (655858) | more than 11 years ago | (#5755930)

It has come to my attention that DARPA has cancelled the POSSE program with UPENN, (sub OpenBSD & a bit for OpenSSL) for undisclosed reasons, effective today, without any warning.



My suspicion is this happened because I made anti-war statements in a Canadian newspaper article in the Globe & Mail, but I am not an American citizen so I cannot claim to have free speech there (even made "quote of the day")."



You might be king shit amongst a group of nerds but the idea that your opinion matters to the US Government is laughable.
If it was anyone It could have been MS whispering in ears just like they did for SE Linux. Not because of some lame anti war comment you made in a Canadian newspaper.

Grow\Shut the fuck up Theo.

Re:How's it goin Theo? (-1, Flamebait)

rxed (634882) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756111)

How's this off topic? Mod this post UP! This post really sums up with what's wrong with Theo's way of thinking, and possibly why (some) good programmers aren't good (project) leaders.

Re:How's it goin Theo? (2, Insightful)

RLiegh (247921) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756222)


It has come to my attention that DARPA has cancelled the POSSE program with UPENN, (sub OpenBSD & a bit for OpenSSL) for undisclosed reasons, effective today, without any warning.

My suspicion is this happened because I made anti-war statements in a Canadian newspaper article in the Globe & Mail, but I am not an American citizen so I cannot claim to have free speech there (even made "quote of the day")."


You might be king shit amongst a group of nerds but the idea that your opinion matters to the US Government is laughable.
If it was anyone It could have been MS whispering in ears just like they did for SE Linux. Not because of some lame anti war comment you made in a Canadian newspaper.


It could very well have been as simple as someone from Darpa decided to peruse the mailing list/IRC forums one day and asked a n00b question and didn't like the response (unlikely, but not nearly as unlikely as getting shitcanned for an anti-war comment).

I agree, Theo is blatantly stretching.

[using my karma bonus as I feel this needs to be heard and discussed.]

Ack! (1)

cmburns69 (169686) | more than 11 years ago | (#5755932)

Too many acronyms!

My head hurts!

An online Starcraft RPG? Only at [netnexus.com]

Re:Ack! (0, Offtopic)

pavewrld (6221) | more than 11 years ago | (#5755953)

wtf!

Re:Ack! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756105)

Syn!

Acronyms and BSD? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756217)

Howabout:

Bitch Sucks Dicks

Bloated Software Decay

or Byebye Software Developers

I know its been dead a long time but if anyone out there knows what BSD used to stand for back in the Big Iron days or whatever feel free to chime in and fill in everybody whos under 40, okay?

I don't know what to say... (1)

lowmagnet (646428) | more than 11 years ago | (#5755949)

...maybe, "DARPA Confirms it"?

I know what to say, "Support DARPA and the USA." (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756162)

DARPA's action is appropriate. The majority of researchers (i. e. students, post-docs, research scientists, etc.) who work on projects at the University of Pennsylvania are foreigners. Of the foreigners, the majority of them are Chinese.

When a project has such importance that a defense agency (in this case, DARPA) of the United States of America (USA) is willing to fund the project, the American government has a right to place restrictions on who can work on the project. This is old news. Many projects at Lincoln Labs at MIT face similar restrictions. When the university -- or the professor -- disagrees, DARPA is well within its right to pull funding.

This is no laughing matter. It is good for the USA to be a free and open society that welcomes foreigners. We should continue to maintain this policy for foreigners who support the USA and its Western ethics, which are the foundation of the most successful society (i. e. Western society) in the world.

However, there are foreigners who wish to oppose the USA and its Western ethics. Worse, there are foreigners who attempt to destroy the USA and its Western ethics after they become American citizens. Please read "Spy Suspect Led an Active, Prominent Life [washingtonpost.com] ".

It is no secret that the bulk of the researchers at the University of Pennsylvania are foreigners, and most of the foreigners are Chinese. They are a threat to the USA, and DARPA justifiably pulled its funding.

By the way, I am not "White", and I fully support Western ethics and the USA.

Bsd is not dead (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5755956)

It's just that it's shit and nobody except losers such as theo the rad who is too much of an ass whole to see that linux kicks bsd in the face!

Go FreeBSD (0, Insightful)

nberardi (199555) | more than 11 years ago | (#5755959)

Go FreeBSD there are more ports anyways.

But really that sucks but the government really shouldn't be funding Open Source Projects it just complicates the release of code way to much.

Re:Go FreeBSD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5755999)

why?

then by your standards they shouldnt be allowed to BUY closed source either.

it complicates the license way to much.

the govt had given the money, "here is a pile of cash, continue your fine work"

how does that complicate ANYTHING.

oh well,

Re:Go FreeBSD (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756007)

the idea, as i understood it, was that the grant would help to facilitate development, but the government would not be able to direct the flow of that development. the openbsd people would continue to do the same thing they had been doing, but would be able to bring on more full time programmers.

additionally, openbsd's drive isn't to make an OS with tons of ports (as they, arguably, do much to hurt security of the local machine), but rather a mature, stable, and secure operating system. I use FreeBSD on both my server and gateway, but am going to switch my server back to OpenBSD with the release of 3.3, simply because of the features OpenBSD offers. However, I would never move my workstation over from FreeBSD, as the ports make it much a very nice match for those looking for a workstation.

File this under DUH! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5755964)

BSD is dead, there was nothing to fund. Besides Theo, who runs OpenBSD?

Re:File this under DUH! (2, Insightful)

CybeRHiDe (66849) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756040)

There are still individuals, as well as companies, that utilize OpenBSD. It has prooven to be quite stable and secure for many. From firewalls to webservers, vpns to ids, personal workstations to x servers. Comments that "BSD is dead" and "noone uses OpenBSD" are purely not true. It maybe a specialized BSD designed for a small niche of uses, but it does what it does and it does it well.

-Cyberhide

Re:File this under DUH! (0, Offtopic)

WH (10882) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756045)

Mohammed Said al-Sahhaf! How did you ever find your way onto Slashdot?

The real reason (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5755973)

Is because they read Slashdot and saw the *BSD is dying.

Huh? (0, Troll)

inode_buddha (576844) | more than 11 years ago | (#5755977)

Wait a minute on this... I'm a linux guy, never even touched BSD in my life. And now *I'm* saying "Huh?"
Man, that sucks IMO. I hope it works out somehow.

Anonymous in America... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5755981)

I'm too ashamed of my own country to even post anything here with my actual account..

Consider this being me living in America with a paper bag on my head..

Re:Anonymous in America... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756033)

Go move to France so you can be a nice little socialist, eurocunt

Re:Anonymous in America... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756142)

You're welcome to talk, this is a free country after all. Just don't expect anyone with half a brain to listen to what you're saying, bozo.

I can't stop you from talking, but you can't make me listen to your bullshit & lies, either.

Easy... (4, Funny)

guile*fr (515485) | more than 11 years ago | (#5755983)

...they discovered Canada harbors french talking people.

Re:Easy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756026)

shouldn't that be freedom talking people? i thought we weren't using the other f-word anymore?

and if it is freedom talking people, doesn't that create some sort of a recursive loop as the US, land of the free, tries to crack down on them? maybe our current administration will get locked in it and implode.

Re:Easy... (1)

Arnold_Crenshaw (602569) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756069)

You are what makes Slashdot bad.

Re:Easy... (1)

guile*fr (515485) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756117)

why? beside being french?

Re:Easy... (2, Funny)

cperciva (102828) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756090)

Canada harbours Freedom talking people now.

Re:Easy... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756104)

Fag
I'm from Canada AND I speak french

Re:Easy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756203)

Fag
I'm from Canada AND I speak french


Are you calling him a Fag or are you defining what a Fag is?

This was to be expected... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5755989)

DARPA finally figured out it's not worth their while to give money to develop OpenBSD, since BSD is dying...

Open Source Means *ALL* Open Source.... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756043)

This sucks.

I happen to be an OpenBSD user, having converted most of my systems over to it because of it's tight code base, progressive deployment of features that are stable, and performance on any hardware.

I "came home" to BSD after taking the trip through some commerical UNIX'es and not liking what the InterNet era did to bloat Linux distributions.

OpenBSD, NetBSD, and FreeBSD regularly share code amongst themselves, giving it huge depth in the experiences of talented coders worldwide.

I was happy when OBSD was US-government funded because I thought it was smart for the US to do, adding up what I know about OBSD's security, the talent of the programmers on the whole OBSD team, how tight they work together, and it showed the government took a smart stance on OS security. I had hopes whatever came out of the project would trickle out to the rest of government.

I don't know if we'll ever know why the program was cancelled, but someone should ask @ an official level. It's not about Linux vs. BSD, it's about our tax dollars as US citizens being used in a way we approved of in a project we cared for, and then being yanked.

We deserve and should demand to know why this decision was made and ensure there's no corporate malfeasance in that decision making process.

Contact your CongressFolk today, US citizens, and help show that Slashdotters are a powerful and informed bunch of people.

I stand behind Theo (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5755991)

OpenBSD is his project. If DARPA wants to retract their funding, so be it. Good riddance. Theo's intrepid and unwavering ethical beliefs are the reason I trust him to write this OS.

I'm sure you do (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756015)

Standing behind Theo is the easiest way to insert your penis into his ass. It's true, it's true.

Theo's comments in Globe and Mail (5, Informative)

LinuxParanoid (64467) | more than 11 years ago | (#5755992)

Theo's anti-war comments in The Globe and Mail [globetechnology.com] can be found here. Theo wasn't told why funding was pulled but he suspects his comments there did it.

I don't think it was Theo's comments to ZDNet on "security through beer drinking" which can be found here [com.com] .

The "oil grab" comment does strike me as a bit uninformed and polemic, but I'll leave that debate for another time. As an OpenBSD user, I'm sad to see the funding pulled and not happy that someone in the U.S. gov't is being petty. (Or perhaps they're just paranoid?)

--LP

Re:Theo's comments in Globe and Mail (1)

GMontag (42283) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756019)

Umm, he didn't threaten to blow the heads off of the DARPA guys did he? I mean I am a big Amendment II guy and all, but . . .

Re:Theo's comments in Globe and Mail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756087)

Umm, no.

Re:Theo's comments in Globe and Mail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756153)

I think Theos being a little egotistical, chances are they don't care what he said. It wasn't very rational or intellegent, but its not even close to being worth pulling funding over. My bet would be with comercial influences...

Re:Theo's comments in Globe and Mail (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756190)

Now please tell what a "informed" person believes the Iraq invasion was about?

I'm sorry (0, Troll)

toddhunter (659837) | more than 11 years ago | (#5755994)

but does anyone else struggle to take a 'Theo' seriously?

Re:I'm sorry (1)

LittleLebowskiUrbanA (619114) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756016)

Not his work. Maybe his comments but definitely not his OS.

Closed-source lobbying (5, Informative)

drosselmeier (640104) | more than 11 years ago | (#5755995)

Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but likely the problem was due to lobbying efforts of companies that are anti Open Source. Anyone remember NSA Linux (now SELinux)? It was released and soon thereafter the goverment started backpeddling in the glare of strong corporate lobbying efforts, and decided that they wouldn't release things under the GPL without serious consideration in the future. One company in particular, based in Redmond WA, lobbyied heavily to stop this sort of action, because it inhibited them from selling their 'hardened' software.

I was suprised to see DARPA (which is more independent of this sort of thing in general) giving money of such magnitude to an open product, but I'm not suprised now to see them renig without explanation.

Re:Closed-source lobbying (5, Insightful)

mkettler (6309) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756068)

Although it's somewhat off-topic, despite the lobbying SELinux is still going. They just made an updated release April 7th, a mere 10 days ago.

http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/news.html

Thus, I don't think DARPA has any issue with the open/closed sourced-ness of it.

It does however seem reasonable for a branch of the US DOD to not be wanting to fund someone that is critical of the US military. Wether his statements are true or not is another matter, but it would seem odd to for the DOD provide funding to a non-us citizen that criticizes the DOD. I'd expect them to have been taking a lot of political flack about that.

Re:Closed-source lobbying (2, Informative)

DevNull Ogre (256715) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756078)

The difference is that OpenBSD is released under a... you guessed it: BSD license. That means all those closed source shops can just take the code for free. Even Microsoft seems pretty okay with BSD-style licenses.

Re:Closed-source lobbying (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756128)

i also remember an article regarding a talk by one of selinux's developers, and how they convinced nsa higher-ups to disregard ms's concerns.

Re:Closed-source lobbying (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756154)

Linux for Govt is a shady subject - since Govt is supported by taxpayers, including CORPORATE Taxpayers (ok ok, so what if loopholes let companies get off on 2 bucks a year :-) ), all govt software projects should be BSD Licensed.

That way everyone gets a fare shake to use the source. Usually GOVT program projects release the code into public domain, BSD is basically that license.

Re:Closed-source lobbying (2, Informative)

jeffy124 (453342) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756178)

actually - i dont think lobbying is it. DARPA provides a lot (and I do mean a LOT) of money for projects that eventually releases OSS code. Even ReiserFS (a russian company at that!) is a recipient of DARPA funding.

CHATS [darpa.mil] , is one such program specifically for OSS, which is where Reiser's funding comes from. TIA, believe it or not, will be generating OSS code in the next few years, assuming privacy extremists let it get off the ground.

Theo's last name sounds foreign (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5755996)

And thus he is a terrorist... or possibly French. I'm not sure whether he's actually foreign or not, but that doesn't matter. That's why they took the funding away. Say no to terrorism... and the French.

couple things (4, Interesting)

Satai (111172) | more than 11 years ago | (#5755998)

Read the whole thread; not everyone thinks it was because of the peace comments. (Not that it would be surprising to this particular slashdotter.)

Something else that ought to be looked at is the Microsoft angle -- in the past they've put pressure on public institutions to avoid supporting open source projects and instead invest in the "free" market. in this particular climate, of jingoism and nationalism, how hard would it be for them to target OpenBSD as a Canadian, anti-capitalist movement, and then to shove a couple hundred copies of IIS under DARPA's nose?

But, then again, maybe I'm misunderstanding the nature of the grant. It is quite possible that DARPA was funding it specifically because of the non-proprietary nature of the software.

My guess? We'll never know the whole story. (But, I've been wrong before. I used to think Enterprise had promise.)

A few speculations (4, Interesting)

lingqi (577227) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756000)

* Corporate lobby (hey, it's a sale-point)
* TIA would be seriously hampered if everyone is very secure
* fear of technology leak into other countries
* other acts of "head-in-ass"

Probably not his comments in Canada (3, Insightful)

jimhill (7277) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756004)

It's less likely that the grant got pulled for comments Theo made in a Canadian newspaper than for the fact that the government which has assiduously spent the last 18 months dismantling our country's(*) claim to being the Land of the Free finally realized that their vastly-expanding surveillance capabilities would be hampered by increased computing security. Plug pulled, time for Clipper 2.

(*) For values of "our country" == "the USA".

Your Sig (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756151)

You spelled "loose" wrong.

This also affects OpenSSL (5, Informative)

Schubert (5172) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756011)

So yeah this might hit closer to home to some of you now. The DARP grant was to the U. of Penn. and a chunk went to OpenBSD with another smaller chunk to OpenSSL.

Serves him right (0, Funny)

TedCheshireAcad (311748) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756012)

Serves him right for speaking out against Operation Iraqi Freedom (tm).

Re:Serves him right (0, Troll)

dan501 (223225) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756059)

don't you mean Operation Iraqi Liberation?

Re:Serves him right (0, Flamebait)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756093)

Serves him right for speaking out against Operation Iraqi Freedom (tm).

Whatever befalls you serves you right for speaking out against Free Speech.... And all things Free as in Speech....

Who has money for funding good research when.... (0, Redundant)

Gefiltefish (125066) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756013)


How can you expect for funds to be available for funding research when:

There's a high profile hunt for probably non-existent weapons of mass freaking destruction? [cnn.com]

And when the people [cnn.com] who we are casually tossing into the axis of evil decide to hate us for some mysterious reason?

And particularly when we need every cent to make bombs [foxnews.com] big enough to take out a small Syrian town??

Obvious explaination: (1, Interesting)

Chmarr (18662) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756017)

The US government has spent HOW MANY billions of dollars on the Iraq war? They're going to be cancelling as many contracts and grants, etcetc, as possible to recoup some of those costs.

For all Theo has done for the OpenBSD, and open-source movements, I think his 'speculation' is treating his words in the paper a little more seriously than it deserves.

Re:Obvious explaination: (4, Interesting)

XaXXon (202882) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756058)

They're going to be cancelling as many contracts and grants, etcetc, as possible to recoup some of those costs.

You obviously have little idea how beaurocratic money works. You don't spend money in one place and move it back into the pot for use by other things.

Once money is allocated for a particular use or group, it stays there. This isn't money that DARPA is losing from the government, just money they decided they weren't going ot give to BSD. They will spend it on something else.

The war will be funded by us, our kids, their kids, and so on as budget deficit.

OT: I think making a constitutional amendment mandating a balanced budget may be going too far, but make it so that you can't be re-elected as president if you have a budget in the red (or something like that -- though not sure what to do about second-term presidents)..

Re:Obvious explaination: (1)

Chmarr (18662) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756067)

Oh, I know perfectly how it works. I also know that exceptional circumstances make exceptions to every 'rule', and this is about as exceptional as it gets.

2 million dollars is certainly worth chasing after.

Re:Obvious explaination: (1)

Cirvam (216911) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756146)

2 million is nothing compared to what they spent on the war, something like 200 Billion already and around 2 Billion more in the coming months. So 2 Million might buy one cruise missile or something but its not gonna help much.

Re:Obvious explaination: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756179)

OT: I think making a constitutional amendment mandating a balanced budget may be going too far, but make it so that you can't be re-elected as president if you have a budget in the red (or something like that -- though not sure what to do about second-term presidents).

The President doesn't make the budget, remember? The legislative branch has the purse. If they followed your plan, Congress could screw the President by overspending, putting things in the red, and then overriding his vetoes.

If true... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756023)

If true, this would most definitely NOT be the first time DARPA ever cancelled a grant...nor would it be the first time they cancelled a worthwhile grant.

Place to make donations (1)

montge (253328) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756034)

Is there a place to make donations, say a paypal account. I wouldn't mind sending a little money to help support.

Re:Place to make donations (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756054)


http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html

http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html

Re:Place to make donations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756081)

http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html

Re:Place to make donations (4, Informative)

datastew (529152) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756134)

Here is the actual paypal link: Paypal link. [x.com]

Re:Place to make donations (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756189)

To make donations to the BSD project and Theo, Click Here [goatse.cx]

While I suspect ... (1)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756036)

that Theo's article may have been the excuse, I suspect that there are a number of others. Kind of like when NSA backed off on doing security for Linux. I would not be surprised to see that more of the USA's funding of OSS will only occur if the license is not GPL. Of course, we can fund expensive tunnelling on MS with a closed license.

Feh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756042)

*BSD is clearly dying. I'm glad the gubmint isn't throwing my money away.

Theo learns a lesson in Thuganomics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756049)

John Cena took his funding away to buy the bling bling, yo!

Who's biting the hand... (3, Insightful)

wfrp01 (82831) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756052)

Who's biting the hand that feeds them? Not Theo. Theo has class. Theo lost some bucks. That sucks. But here's the thing: DARPA gets a lot more out of Theo then Theo ever hoped to get from DARPA. This is just another example of idiocy run rampant at the defense department. This is the same department, remember, that ascertained the necessity of protecting the Iraq Oil Ministry whilst the relics of civilation's birth were plundered. What's so important about the Oil Ministry? What have they got there? A bunch of loan guarantees with the French, vs. the cradle of civilazation? DOD fuckwit shitwits. These people are so stupid that they will put their own interests at risk in order to spite someone (a very intelligent someone) who doesn't tow their fucked up party line.

Theo will prevail. The current administration of the US DOD will go down in history as infamous self-important crusading intolerant assholes responsible for great world instability and economic chaos.

I would do it too (0)

rxed (634882) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756061)

I just think that some of the comments made by Theo were less than helpfull in the matter.

Free Speech != No Consequences (4, Insightful)

primebase (9535) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756065)



Actually, you do have the right to speak freely in the US, just as I suspect you do in Canada. After all, you & your loved ones are not dead/imprisoned/being tortured for what you said.

However...

You did just shoot your mouth off about your employer in a negative way! Not too wise to do that anywhere public, and pretty much just plain dumb to do it VERY publicly in print.

And, lo and behold, they didn't agree with what you had to say (shock, amazement) and they pulled funding.

I hate that you lost your grant money (especially since I like your project and the work you do), but you have no one to blame but yourself.

So no whining.

Refer to the subject of this message if you have any further questions.

Re:Free Speech != No Consequences (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756107)

The problem is that we no longer live in a place where people believe that having a difference of opinion with the authoritarian entity is OK. Now it makes you a terrorist.

Re:Free Speech != No Consequences (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756122)

Having differences of opinion does not get you labeled a terrorist. Thats BS. I don't think Dubya is declaring war on OpenBSD

Re:Free Speech != No Consequences (1)

primebase (9535) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756130)

I 88% agree with you, believe it or not...we have swung to far to the authoritarian side.

My hope, however, is that the cycle may yet come back around. It did in the 50s with the whole Red Scare thing...we shall see, eh?

Re:Free Speech != No Consequences (1)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756139)

And, lo and behold, they didn't agree with what you had to say (shock, amazement) and they pulled funding.

I disagree completely. Now if his corporation didn't like what he had to say, and didn't want to see attention drawn to this fact, I am sure they would be within their rights to fire him.

That being said, the government is just plain different. The government should not be allowed to pull funding because they don't like the somethign that somebody says if it has political, scientific, or artistic value. The reason is that the government has broader powers within its borders than a corporation does... A corporation cannot come and arrest you, try you for your crimes, and throw you in prison for the rest of your life. They have to get the government to do this for them. If the TSA agents leave messages in peoples' suitcases which are found to contain protest material, this is no different-- both are a form of political harrasment.

The point is that one cannot permit any government activity to be used as a political weapon. Personally, I don't think it was here. More likely it was just a greater effort to make sure that military spending doesn't leave the country, and among certain people to combat the threat of real opensource security.

Funny (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756092)

Everybody hates the USA, but they sure want those filthy Yankee dollars. What a bunch of fucking hypocrites.

fucking setemental bastards (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756100)

I am ashamed to be a american now becuase if shit like this

Does that mean ..... (1)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756101)





It seems the DARPA grant for OpenBSD and for University of Pennsylvania has been cancelled (?) immediately and without warning.


Does that mean DARPR may be thinking giving a grant to someone who start the "Open Linux"project ?

theo's mail (5, Informative)

Mentorix (620009) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756106)

Theo's message follows:
- - - -
FYI,

It has come to my attention that DARPA has cancelled the POSSE program with UPENN, (sub OpenBSD & a bit for OpenSSL) for undisclosed reasons, effective today, without any warning.

My suspicion is this happened because I made anti-war statements in a Canadian newspaper article in the Globe & Mail, but I am not an American citizen so I cannot claim to have free speech there (even made "quote of the day").

In a phone call a few days ago it was expressed to me that there were people inside DARPA and UPENN who were very uncomfortable with the article, but I was not told specifically what upset them.

We have 60 developers flying in from around the world (they bought their own tickets, non-refundable) for a Hackathon May 8 - 20, where we do a major part of our development; since DARPA is now forcing UPENN to cancel those Hotel accomodations, I would be very grateful if anyone can find a way to help us. I'm going to need to pay for it myself, since these people are going to come.

Thanks.
- - - -
The anti-war statements that were made can be found here [globetechnology.com]
--
Full steam ahead, stoke the boiler with more kittens! -- Bluey, Dragon Tails

Simple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756120)

since DARPA is now forcing UPENN to cancel those Hotel accomodations, I would be very grateful if anyone can find a way to help us. I'm going to need to pay for it myself, since these people are going to come.

You should have rolled your tongue 7 times before getting involved into politics, but it's too late for arguments on that now.

Anyways, how about putting the people flying over on your will and to then arrange an "accident"?

Serves Them Right (1)

tealover (187148) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756129)

I'm always astounded how people think they have the right to express their opinions and then act surprised when there are repercussions.

If you want to discuss politics, religion, etc., you have to realize that you are going to piss some people off. If you're ok with that then you won't have a problem dealing with things like this.

Re:Serves Them Right (4, Insightful)

3141 (468289) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756173)

I'm always astounded how people think they have the right to express their opinions and then act surprised when there are repercussions.

Perhaps because when things are happening that will affect the whole world, including themselves, they feel that they have just as much a right to speak freely as politicians.

What does it mean for Penn? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756136)

I don't know what it means for OpenBSD but it doesn't mean shit for UPenn. Penn Comp-Sci has an assload of cash.

Jonathan Smith has so much funding that it wont matter :-). He is a great prof and probably the biggest OpenBSD fan I've ever met though! :-)

-Penn Engineering Student

Open mouth, insert foot (4, Insightful)

reemul (1554) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756141)

Forget for a moment that the funding source was the US gov't. Just imagine that the money came from a grant from some generic source with no political or social implications whatsoever. A portion of the money was spent, and many of the goals were already reached. The project lead continued to spend the money, in some cases for purposes that were at best dubious and at worst clearly opposed to the wishes of the grant source. And then he gave interviews where he badmouthed them. Do you think that any group, anywhere, would continue to give money to the project?

This isn't a Big Mean US Gov't story - after all, they had been funding the project with pretty lenient restrictions until now - this is yet another case of a great programmer and leader who has let his mouth get in the way of his work. Theo isn't yet up to the level of RMS, but he is trying Really Hard. DARPA brought the gear, the ball, provided a nice field to play on, and gave the OpenBSD team a chance to show what they could do. After a great start, they decided to hang out with friends, do their own thing, and drink beer out of their helmets. And then they threw dung at the guys in the suits paying for the party. Brilliant. Why should anyone at all be shocked that DARPA took their ball and went home?

I like OpenBSD, and use it on my firewall box. Partly because of the security, and in part because as an also-ran in the OS popularity contests, none of the script kiddies even bother trying to get in. I'll upgrade to 3.3, and maybe even buy the disks to give some money back to the team. But I still think that personally, Theo is a prick, and this time it bit him.

Coders and testers can give back to the Open Source community through pretty obvious ways. Same with tech writers helping with the docs, and lawyers keeping an eye on the licenses and handling privacy and security issues. Any PR or other personal contact specialist folks out there looking for a way to help out? There really needs to be some project full of helpful folks to handle the interface between the socially-deficient techies and the prickly and sensitive people in the outside world, from investors to possible users. I know I need the help when dealing with clients, and clearly I'm not the only one. How about it?

Re:Open mouth, insert foot (1, Flamebait)

AusG4 (651867) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756215)

Did you actually READ the "beer drinking" article?

The very last line, paraphrased, is "Theo was careful to point out that the group paid for it's own beer."

Everything I read about/from Theo suggests he is a class act. If anyone is throwing dung here, it's you my friend.

BSD... (3, Funny)

rice_burners_suck (243660) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756149)

Typical government bullshit. They probably figured out that Arabs/Muslims are using OpenBSD to build "nucular" weapons, so they no longer wish to support its funding. Either that or they wish to boycott the Canadians for their lack of support for the U.S.

I think I'll start another "distribution" of BSD. It'll be called AbiertoBSD and it'll be based in D.F. The strong points of AbiertoBSD will derive from its being built out of used car parts from the local pick-aparts in my neighborhood.

Just kidding. Everyone who has read a lot of my posts knows that I like BSD a lot more than Linux, despite the fact that I use Linux for many tasks. Oh yeah... and don't talk smack on my country!

Re:BSD... (3, Insightful)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756163)

Typical government bullshit. They probably figured out that Arabs/Muslims are using OpenBSD to build "nucular" weapons, so they no longer wish to support its funding. Either that or they wish to boycott the Canadians for their lack of support for the U.S.

Or maybe because the International Criminal Court is headed by a Canadian? ;-)

Probably no persecution. (3, Insightful)

supabeast! (84658) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756164)

I doubt that there is any persecution going on here. People need to understand that right now, the US Government is taking in much less money than it has been in previous years due to tax cuts and a slowing economy. Just before the start of the war many government agencies that had been recieving a lot of money saw serious budget cuts. Small, unessential, and pet projects have been slashed all over the US Government, especially in defense. People are losing funds and jobs all over the place, not just OpenBSD/UPenn.

The reason is simple really. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756180)

Open is the exact opposite of secure. [slashdot.org]

The government will continue to rely on certifiably secure proprietary software [worldtechtribune.com] from the likes of Microsoft, rather than this hippie "open" crap which poses a real security risk.

Pulling funding is not uncommon (1, Redundant)

MyNameIsFred (543994) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756184)

Anyone who has worked in the defense research biz can tell you that it is not uncommon for funding to be pulled. No big conspiracy is required. Generally, the funding agency has funding diverted from them to pay some other government bill. The price of something else, with a higher priority, went up. The funding agency then has to come up with the money. So they grab money from lower priority projects.

Free software meets real life (2, Funny)

coupland (160334) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756185)

Just goes to show all this talk about freedom and free software is great when you're arguing with ComandrKeen69 on /. but free speech hits you in the pocket book when you port it to meatspace...

Congrats Theo! (-1, Flamebait)

11223 (201561) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756200)

Congratulations, Theo, on another great win for the OpenBSD project. I'm sure your fabulous communications skills and amazingly consistent habit of oralautopodiatry have once again served the OpenBSD project well. You've done 'em proud, Theo!

Enough rope... (1)

subzerohen (664161) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756202)

to shoot yourself in the foot. I guess the poeple over at DARPA forgot about the MITRE report [deadly.org] on Free Open Source Software?

Banning FOSS would remove certain types of infrastructure components (e.g., OpenBSD) that currently help support network security.


Ah well. Who cares if some cracker kill a bunch of US soldiers. We sure showed Theo. Why does he think he has the right to free speach anyway?

cancel? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756204)

cancel? franklt some people don't know what the f**k this is all about. This kind of bs just piss me off.

Donation Link (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5756209)

http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html

Incase someone wants to talk from their wallet instead of their mouths :)

relevant quote (5, Insightful)

zogger (617870) | more than 11 years ago | (#5756223)

--relevant quote from down the list:

"I am not sorry for having said my anti-war stuff, in fact if anything,
this comes to something I said to Ty a few nights ago at the bar: "If
they take the money away, then it was blood money, and I don't want it".

I actually feel redeemed :-)"

--good for you theo. It was blood money. The US government has been hijacked and is run by ....well, that word you can't use in usenet. I've seen enough with what passes for the law and legalities with this junta, they are the rulers, everyone else is a subject. They've been hacking down websites, now they are starting with the ultra violence on anyone who dares to have an opinion against them. Losing cash is nothing in the long run. Screw em, make your OS, and keep your opinions.

And quite frankly, the government doesn't want "the people" to have a secure OS, they want "total informational awareness". Can't do that with secure software to the people, can you?

We're seeing it now, assaults on security researchers and developers, assaults on encryption, etc.

I've never run your OS but I can see what's happening, so you must be on the right track. Just lately they've taken down irwin schiff and his tax research, and also the publishers of cracking the code, the expose of the UCC in the US. so it's just not specifically IT. Politics as usual like you would see in any banana republic, just so happens this is turning into a LARGE banana republic, or should I say a "regime"..
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