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Online Marketers to Stamp out Spam?

CmdrTaco posted more than 10 years ago | from the yeah-that-could-happen dept.

Spam 263

CodeHog writes "A group of online marketers want to get rid of spam and are proposing a registry base system for transmitting email. They are calling the project Lumos. Computer World has an aritcle on it Online marketers offer new antispam initiative . Doesn't it seem like these are the same businesses that profit from spam? Even better, this is being proposed by ESPC. The member list doesn't look too anti-spam to me." The obvious issue of course is that most spammers won't follow the rules anyway. My spam is up 20% over the 1st quarter of 2003! Yay!

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Yes, let's hand email over to marketers (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803324)

And lets also hand over civil rights to the Klan.

Re:Yes, let's hand email over to marketers (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803400)

It's funny that you say this. The KKK is actually pretty tolerant as long as you're white. Taking the American "Freedom" stance, the common Klan view is that every (white) man has his property and his gun to protect it, and that no thief nor government is going to take it away, nor stop him from saying what he thinks.

If you add to the equation that the Klan is OK with blacks as long as they're not living here, you've really got a bunch of separatist Constitutionalists. Yes, there have been periods where the Klan has reduced itself to a bunch of lynching cowboys -- and these are the periods most remembered -- but this was neither the aim nor has it been the mainstay of the organization.

Re:Yes, let's hand email over to marketers (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803432)

The Klan isn't big on white Catholics. We're Papists apparently.

Re:Yes, let's hand email over to marketers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803472)

True, but neither are the Bushes big on outspoken atheists. But they aren't going to smash your face in for it. The current aristocracy allows every color as long as it's green, and the Klan every color as long as it's white. Just a different thing to discriminate on, that's all.

Re:Yes, let's hand email over to marketers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803502)

You can choose your religion (or lack of), you can't choose skin color.

Re:Yes, let's hand email over to marketers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803574)

It doesn't matter. Neither should make any difference.

Re:Yes, let's hand email over to marketers (1)

brunson (91995) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803837)

Sure you can. Look at Michael Jackson

Re:Yes, let's hand email over to marketers (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803789)

Actually, the Klan is even more tolerant than that.

Most common factions of the Klan have no problem with any race, as long as they don't try to interbreed. What most agree on is that Whites and Blacks should not mix.

STOP F%*CKING WHINING ABOUT SPAM FAG (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803459)

Just change your email address. I get tired of hearing all you ignorant morons brag about how much spam you get. I get about 3 a week with no filters on one account and my friends and family account I get ZERO SPAM. Its really not that hard to figure out.

You are a fucking moron (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803567)

I've had the same email address for almost 7 years. I like it and I don't want to change it. What a pain in the ass it would be change your email address every 6 months, unless you have very few friends, which I would guess is the case with you.

Just because life works a certain way for you, idiot, doesn't mean it works that way for everyone else. I used to wonder why people bitched about SPAM too, but now I get 50-100 A DAY. Sure I could change my address, but like I said, I don't want to. Of course, I don't really bitch about it either (the 'd' key in PINE works pretty well, and pretty quickly, plus SpamAssassin blocks most of it), but I would love to see something done about it. But I'm not holding my breath.

Re:You are a fucking moron (3, Insightful)

Ataru (50540) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803727)

A while back I was a bit busy so I stopped checking my home email regularly. As I was getting over a hundred spams a day, it was quickly mounting up. A couple of times I sat there and deleted 500 or so, looking carefully for anything from friends and family. Just over a month ago I was overwhelmed. I got 127 today, so now I have 5521 messages in my inbox. That email account is basically fucked. I have no idea if there are any legitimate emails in there. Fucking spammers. Hanging, drawing and quartering is too good for them.

Re:Yes, let's hand email over to marketers (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803522)

Your freedom to corporations, your dreams to lawyers, your health to accountants. If this is earth, I want to go to bizarro world.

I went to Rob Malda's house (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803326)

And all I got was double vision, and this first post. gritzgritzgritzgritz

2nd post? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803327)

I certainly think so!

Like this is going to save the world (4, Insightful)

Blaine Hilton (626259) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803340)

This seems like a ploy to legitimize spam. I see this as actually increasing the amount, not decreasing it. The only people that will likely benefits are the advertisers that use this Lumos thing to get their email on a "approve" list. Much like the NAT sensors in a recent slashdot article, this will just make the spammers change their methods, if it even takes off in the first place. Although this plan seems at least to me that it is ill fated, something needs to be done about spam. Like censorship though it's probably best left to the end consumer and not some blind upstream connectivity provider.

Go calculate [webcalc.net] something

Re:Like this is going to save the world (1)

Smallpond (221300) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803460)


Yeah. There is a company [habeas.com] that tried a copyrighted Haiku which you could filter on as a guarantee that your mail message was not spam. The trouble is, the only people that use it are the spammers.

Not exactly spam... (1)

MadAnthony02 (626886) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803623)

Supposedly, the point of Habeas is that the companies that use it are opt-in and actually have options to let you unsubscribe that let you unsubscribe instead of just sending you more spam because they know that you are an active address. Arguably, if the people who use it don't conform to not being spam, then people who manage mail servers won't let Habeas through

The only sender I've noticed using this is HarrisDirect, an online polling company. I did subscribe and am cool with getting mail from them, so I don't consider it spam. I consider that mail vastly different from some random AOL account sellin me penis enlargement pills.

Re:Like this is going to save the world (4, Insightful)

Musashi Miyamoto (662091) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803513)

I totally agree. This would probably cause you to recieve more spam as a result. However, it might be a bit more cleaned up and "professionalized".

The only way to stop spam is either re-work SMTP or intellegent spam filters... Its hard to knock spam filters nowadays... They are almost artificial intelligence in their ability to spot a spam e-mail. Its amazing... Try a good one like iHateSpam [ihatespam.com] and see... They remove close to 99% of spam.

I predict the first self-aware system will not be a 2001 HAL-like supercomputer, but a spam filter running on someones desktop.

"What are you doing Dave? How about a lower mortgage rate, Dave?"

Re:Like this is going to save the world (1)

StormCrow (10254) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803834)

Of course when you post links, it would be a good plan to make certain that Ultimate Search hasn't scooped up the domain and squatted on it when it expired.

As a side note, has anyone ever managed to buy a domain off Ultimate Search? They swiped an expired domain I had my eye on.

Re:Like this is going to save the world (4, Insightful)

johnnyb (4816) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803538)

Having been involved in Internet marketing myself, let me say that most business don't want to send you email that you don't want to receive. That includes the mail houses that send them. The ones I have worked with get between a 10% and 30% _click_ rate. Why? Because send very targetted emails.

Few people are advocating any longer sending mass emails to everyone they can find an address for. Most people have found that using legitimate sources of addresses (such as your customer list, trade-show lists, and small targetted lists) get great results that customers are willing to pay for.

These people are usually sending out up to 10,000 emails at a time.

The professionals involved _want_ email marketing to be legitimate - because it gets higher-dollar business for them.

Re:Like this is going to save the world (1)

gclef (96311) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803572)

2 thoughts:

1) if there's a public list of direct-email sites somewhere, great...instant blacklist. Let them make a list. I'm all for it.
2) The only *real* way to fix the unscrupulous spam problem is to make it no longer pay. To that end, I'm seriously considering writing a script that will fill spammers' order databases with bogus orders (and will do so through anonymous proxies like Peekabooty). My only concern right now is that it's probably fraud, so I'm hesitating.

Re:Like this is going to save the world (1)

homer_ca (144738) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803690)

"This seems like a ploy to legitimize spam"

It's a ploy by the mainsleaze spammers to legitimize their spam because the scammers and porn peddlers give all UCE such a bad name. This might provide some relief from the scams, porn, Viagra, and penis enlargement spam, but potentially opens the floodgates for just about everything else.

How to do this for real (2, Insightful)

mdfst13 (664665) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803738)

Since this proposal seems aimed at making it more difficult to become a spammer (you have to get certification to bulk mail) but protects "authorized" spammers, I would say that it is a spam promotion mechanism. The largest spammers will be able to send spam, because they can afford to buy the certification (which also protects them from ISP blacklists, etc.). Smaller spammers will no longer be allowed to compete. Further, it would also eliminate the ability of *legitimate* mailing lists to send newsletters, etc. without certification.

I think that this is way overcomplicating the situation. What is the number one reason why spammers can't be detected? They use relays and proxies to hide their identity. How to fix this? Only accept SMTP mail from servers authorized to send email for that domain. This would require a new DNS record (call it an SMTP record for now). If a server does not have authorization to send email for a domain (say yahoo.com), then when the receiving server looks up the SMTP record, it won't find it and will reject the email.

If the server is authorized, then the email will go through. If it turns out to be spam, then the sending server can either stop sending email for the spammer or be blacklisted. This will make relaying much harder. Also, it makes it useful for SMTP servers to authenticate users. Currently, this is meaningless in the fight against spam, since one could just use an open relay instead. However, if only authorized smtp servers were allowed to relay mail, then requiring authorization prevents spammers from sending mail under a false email address.

This would create a traceable system and allow spammers to be identified without forcing client software changes (might have to change SMTP configuration). Spammers would have to own an account or a domain name in order to send spam. Either requires payment and contact info. Faking the contact info would be fraud which would be prosecutable by tracing the payment.

Leverage existing law with proper infrastructure.

Spam up 20% (4, Funny)

RollingThunder (88952) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803345)

My spam is up 20% over the 1st quarter of 2003!

So how can I get spam futures into my portfolio? Something going up 20% a quarter is just what the stockbroker ordered!

Re:Spam up 20% (1)

Greedo (304385) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803401)

Easy: buy shares in whoever provides you with bandwidth.

In Soviet Russia... (-1)

I'm not a script, da (638454) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803680)

...online marketers stamp out YOU!

Turn $25 into $500,000 in 6 months (4, Funny)

DrSkwid (118965) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803737)

Hello,
You may have seen this business before and
ignored it. I know I did - many times! However,
please take a few moments to read this letter.
I was amazed when the profit potential of this
business finally sunk in... and it works!

With easy-to-use e-mail tools and opt-in e-mail,
success in this business is now fast, easy and
well within the capabilities of ordinary people
who know little about internet marketing. And the
earnings potential is truly staggering!

Send me $25 and I'll send you the tools.

Re:Spam up 20% (-1)

GhostseTroll (582659) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803803)

Your Bowels Cleansed

Let me ask you this...which is worse:

A. The engine on your Lexus freezes up at 160,000 miles instead of 300,000. You take a financial hit and you are forced to buy a Camry this time.

B. You start bleeding during bowel movements. You go to the doctor and get poked, prodded, X-ray'd, biopsied, etc. 3 days later you get a call for a consultation. The doctor informs you that you have advanced colon cancer at 45 years old. You have anywhere from 6 months to 5 years left to live. He tells you it's time to get your house in order because you'll be checking out soon. Chemotherapy starts today.

A friend of mine who was a science and health researcher at the University of Chicago, just died this past year of colon cancer at 42. In the midst of the prime of his life, he said goodbye, and left his wife and child behind, wondering what just hit them.

Why do you brush your teeth? Are your teeth falling out right now? For most of us, we do it so we won't need false teeth and Fixodent down the road...right? We want to be able to eat apples. Hey, I agree with that. Natural teeth are great.

But have you ever seen someone who was forced to endure a colonectomy? Someone who now will be spending the rest of their life carrying a bag around?

Incredibly, this is an area where even the staunchest MD's AGREE with us!! Can you believe it? If they knew you had the greatest colon cleanse in the world, I bet they might even refer people to you. NO, I'm not kidding...

This subject is not even up for debate. It's a proven fact. The problem is, most people are not doing anything about it. Please don't be one of them.

****WARNING***** The next section of this email contains graphic
material which may not be suitable for squeamish individuals.

Let's talk stools.

The stool tells you a lot about your colon health. If it's dark brown in color, and it sinks, and it stinks, that's not good. And don't feel bad, that's the way most people are. What you want to see is light brown color, which means it's full of fresh bile from the liver, very mild odor, and a stool that floats. We're talking low-density here folks. The more compaction you have the darker the color and the faster it sinks. Compaction is not good. Also, moving bowels should be SIMPLE. If the veins are popping out of your neck and you feel like your doing the bench press, you NEED to cleanse your colon.

When you do the cleanse, for the first few days....things are a little weird. But you know you're cleansed when you see the above good stuff happening, and you are eliminating at least 2-3 times per day.

Cleansing your colon is a 30-day process. Its also very economical at under $50. You may be very surprised at some of the benefits you will receive besides just losing 1-5 lbs of cr*p from your body and brightening your future health.

People have reported more energy, less allergies, clearing of acne, cessation of migraines, and many other results, not to mention restored regularity. When your body is void of old, poisonous toxins that are constantly being reabsorbed through the colon walls, it can begin to heal again. And when the colon walls are clean, the good nutrients from your food and supplements can be absorbed again. You will be thrilled with the results.

At this point you are either nauseated thinking about what is inside your own colon, or you're ready to do something about cleaning it out.

Want more info? Click here and I'll send it to you, including instructions on how to take it. It is private, all natural, totally safe, inexpensive, and very effective. And yes, I have taken it myself.

Currently available only in the U.S. and Canada. Seeking Distributors to meet high demand.

cmdrtaco@slashdot.org?subject=SendColonCleanseIn fo

cmdrtaco@slashdot.org?subject=PleaseRemove

Please do not 'reply' to this email as we might not see your message. Please use the links above.

Dupe ... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803359)

Well ... mebbe not!

Incredibly intuitive notion (4, Funny)

mao che minh (611166) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803369)

Terrific idea. I assert that we should also award the power to draft anti-monopoly legistlation to Microsoft Corporation.

Re:Incredibly intuitive notion (1)

B3ryllium (571199) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803396)

Well, Microsoft has years of experience to draw from. It's like hiring Kevin Mitnick as a security expert. It happens.

Re:Incredibly intuitive notion (2, Informative)

cpeterso (19082) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803441)


In related news about foxes watching hen houses, the Federal Trade Commission has selected AT&T to operate the new national do-not-call telemarketing list. Unfortunately, AT&T is #1 on the FCC's list of telemarketing complaints for 2001, 2002, and 2003 Q1.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/904102.asp?0cv=CB20 [msnbc.com]

Re:Incredibly intuitive notion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803881)

diss the klan get a +5 funny.

diss microsoft get a modded a troll.

what happened to the good old days of ripping on microsoft just because.

too many MS Borg now infect slashdot.

web log spam (3, Insightful)

dirvish (574948) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803382)

I know this is kinda off-topic but I am kinda fired up about it right now. I just got done posting a comment to the Antispamist's Spam Forum [dyndns.org] about the increasing spamming of my web server logs. I am using a script that displays the recent referrers [3fingersalute.net] and it is currently half full of spam. Has anyone else had problems with this? This recent bout seems to stem from one guy [mailto]

Re:web log spam (1)

Greedo (304385) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803464)

That's got to be the subtlest way of spamming I can think of. So subtle, in fact, that I fail to see the benefit to the spammer.

Sure, you might peruse your logs and wonder why there is a referrer from www.some-spamming-site.com, and visit it. Once. Then you'll ignore them.

I suppose there is the issue if you make the referrers available on a public part of your site (as opposed to a password-protected staff section).

I also suppose there is the fact that he's using your bandwidth to generate those referrers. In which case, blackhole his IP.

Re:web log spam (2, Informative)

Chmarr (18662) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803610)

There are a number of popular Weblogs (blogs, whatever) that are being hit with this kind of thing. The reasoning is that these logs often display their referrers to the public. So, as a spammer, you can get some free advertising on these sites by accessing the blog with a referrer containing your message.

Stupid, yes, but who is attributing spammers with intelligence?? :)

Faking Google Link Popularity. (2, Interesting)

DeionXxX (261398) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803802)

By having links to your site in someone else's logs that are visible through a browser. It creates a LINK from YOUR site to the SPAMMER site. Therefore inflating their google score. I had a client as me what I thought about this idea and I told him that it was underhanded and a bad idea, so he didn't pay the money to do it.

Re:web log spam (4, Funny)

Mr. Sketch (111112) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803491)

I am using a script that displays the recent referrers and it is currently half full of spam.

Hmm, now it seems to be half full of slashdot.org referrers.

Re:web log spam (1)

dirvish (574948) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803518)

Yeah, the offending urls have just about been pushed off the bottome since I only display the last 50 referrers.

Re:web log spam (1)

dirvish (574948) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803583)

The post to the Antispamery: http://antispamist.dyndns.org/forum/viewtopic.php? t=12 [dyndns.org] w/ a poll


And I believe most/all of the following referrers are faked/spam:

www.sanmarinobasketcup.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.inchfarm.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.artifaxx.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.augustapublishing.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.aussiebar.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.bu-derm.org[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.arsongs.net[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.arizonasba.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.bobbakazoo.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.spankit2.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.search4pornography.com[1] 1 : /Adult-Directories/Big-Dick/ [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.sexyteenerotica.com[1] 1 : /index.php?action=n [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.chaiti.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.chocoborancher.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.lambertonline.net[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.mathweb2001.net[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.oceanroofing.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.orangecountydiscjockey.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.ipna2001.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.questinspection.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.crc-endocrinology.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.dreamshaven.com[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.enterprise-nx01.net[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0) www.pacificbiodiv.org[1] 1 : / [go] 0 below minimum threshold (0)

YES - logs are full of it (1)

Boss, Pointy Haired (537010) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803729)

So much so that I no longer bother with referrer or user-agent logging.

I've put other methods in place to track what I want to track.

What amazed me was how slow many in the webmaster community were to catch on to it.

"Hey, has anybody heard of XXXXXXXX server monitoring company? For some reason they're hitting my website, but i've not signed up with them...."

DUH.

Re:YES - logs are full of it (1)

dirvish (574948) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803772)

Yeah, I noticed a while ago and saw mention of it online but it has recently increased greatly in my logs.

Of course (4, Funny)

7x7 (665946) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803384)

I will gladly post my email to a public "do not mail" list. I assume the list will be harvested to "remove" me.

Re:Of course (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803421)

Please mod parent up. This is seriously funny stuff.

Re:Of course (1)

amuro98 (461673) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803850)

Been there, done that. Check Google for defunct companies that did just that, got caught selling their lists to spammers, and claimed "hacker x" did it...

Really now...if folks don't trust the government, do you really think some group of marketters is going to be any more trustworthy?

Show of hands (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803388)

My spam is up 20% over the 1st quarter of 2003! Yay!

How many others use (something)@slashdot.org for all the email entries for anonymous ftp servers, web downloads, pron logins, etc, etc?

Thing is, Taco, you and your editors are easy targets, and not all that highly respected. Your spamload is completely atypical.

The company I work for gets very little spam, on the scale of a couple dozen a month for hundreds of users. We have no filters in place at all, it's not a problem here.

It isnt random. You're just the internets chump.

I use (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803456)

me@me.com. I bet whoever owns me.com hates me.

I use (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803503)

I always use webmaster@.com

Adobe starting blocking that recently.

I use (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803605)

bob@smith.com

I've sent a couple of test emails to that account from one of my 'other' email accounts and they haven't bounced, so I assume it's legit. That guy's gotta be drowned in spam. :)

Oh, and on my real email address, I get like 50-100 A DAY, so it's not just well-known people like the slashdot editors who get buried by this crap.

Re:Show of hands (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803617)

none@yourdamn.biz

It's not just editors (0)

Sabaki (531686) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803783)

I read this too, and did a quick calculation, and yes, my spam is up about 20% this quarter too.

So it's not just Slashdot editors.

me too. (4, Insightful)

nege (263655) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803390)

I agree- every time I call Verizon I get a nice message in a soothing voice telling me that they respect my privacy. Yet I know they sell my number to telemarketers because I don't give that number to anyone else but personal friends! Then they will sell me some telemarketing blocking technology, and sell the telemarketers anti-telemarketing technology technology and so forth. I don't see how this email stuff will be different...but then again Im completely jaded.

Oxymoron (3, Funny)

ad0gg (594412) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803399)

Kinda like letting the fox guard the chickens. I have feeling this to weed out porn, and "penis enlargement" emails so the marketing companies don't have worry about their spam getting diluted.

Ask Slashdot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803409)

I am running debian woody 3.0(kernel bf 2.4). I can execute kppp as root only not as normal user.When I loging as normal user, I have to open terminal as super user mode and connect internet. It gave me an option while installing kppp that "to run kppp as normal user, become a user of proxy group". I could not understand how to become a member of proxy group.

One more problem:- I have NIC. but I am not connected to LAN. my NIC remain always active. when I connect internet, I have to pass"route add default ppp0" always. Is there any escape from it.

Re:Ask Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803625)

I don't know about your second question, but to add yourself to the proxy group, simply edit /etc/group (as root) and add your username after proxy:

You then have to log out and back in.

hth...

Tracking spam (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803420)

My spam is up 20% over the 1st quarter of 2003!

You track your percentage of spam? And keep historical notes?

WOW! Get a life..
Hrmm...how long can you live without touching a keyboard? Take a deep breath, pry yourself away from the cheap fake leather chair, and go outside. You can do it!

Someone needs to create a support group for people like this...Kinda of like Alcoholics Anonymous.

Meetings would have to take place through Instant Messenger/IRC until you can pry them away from the computer.

email mod? (1, Insightful)

SHEENmaster (581283) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803423)

seems to me that the thing to do is make "user.foo@bar.tld" where bar.tld is the server and foo is the host you gave your email to. A user command or webform would then be able to tell the smtp server to reject incoming requests for user.foo.

Another idea is to not give your address out. I've only recieved 4 sams for my account [mailto] , all of which appear to be from spambots. (let's hope they don't read /.!)

What would be the best server-side spam filter operated by root, where upon request I could block spam with a particular title or source for all users?

cannot stop spam. (4, Insightful)

Musashi Miyamoto (662091) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803434)

Unless SMTP is re-worked to disallow false source addresses, spam is not going to be stopped by a system like this. As long as there is no accountability from the sources of spam, it will continue to be pumped out from overseas. Though projects like PennyBlack and SpamNet are good in concept, the only one that has proven to work is intellegent filtering. Spam filters like Spam Inspector [giantcompany.com] remove around 99% of junk email... You need to have one to make using your e-mail account worth using again...

I couldn't imagine my Yahoo mail without their spam controls... (Unlike Hotmail, which spams you themselves)

Re:cannot stop spam. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803633)

Spam filters like Spam Inspector [giantcompany.com] remove around 99% of junk email... You need to have one to make using your e-mail account worth using again...

They claim 99%, but statistical methods may only give 90 to 95% which is next to useless.

I use a different method of analyzing the headers and looking for mistakes that spammers make. This gives me 100% accuracy, at between 300 and 3,000 messages per second.

When a spammer comes up with a new trick, it takes only a short time to code and any new spam containing that flaw is instantly recognized and filtered out.

I will upload the latest version later this evening, but if you'd like to see how it's done, get my source at

http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/misc/spa2e 921.zip [sympatico.ca]

Best Regards,

Mike Monett

Re:cannot stop spam. (2, Interesting)

minas-beede (561803) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803717)

What is the goal - to stop spam coming to you or to just plain stop spam? That latter would be everybody's spam. Seems like stopping everybody's spam would have the bigger payoff.

You stop your own spam when it comes to you. You stop the spam for everybody when you let the spammer send relay spam to a box you control. To see if you are qualified to do this take this simple test:

If your system receives relay spam do you:

(A) Deliver it

or

(B) Not deliver it?


If you answered (B), Not deliver it, you have passed the test.

The spammers are looking for open relays and open proxes all over, every day. Right now they don't know the difference between a real open relay and a fake. This is an opportunity. Create a fake open relay, let them find it (which means you allow their test message to be delivered) and then watch to see if spam rolls in [remember the correct anser above was (B).]

Re:cannot stop spam. (2, Insightful)

amuro98 (461673) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803906)

Spam is not a technology problem.

It's a social problem. It's a problem of greed, laziness, and a general disrespect for anyone and everyone.

No matter what sort of technological wizardry is concocted, spammers, like cockroaches, will slip in between the cracks.

I don't care about filtering spam. I want a system that will prevent the stuff from ever being transmitted in the first place (like maybe a keyboard that would explode, mortally wounding the user if the keyboard detected that the user was going to spam...)

1/3 of all email is spam according to PCWorld (3, Informative)

zbowling (597617) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803475)

According to this artical on PCWorld 1/3 of the email on the internet is spam and the rest is mostly person-to-person communications. http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,105525,0 0.asp I support anti-spam legisitlation.

cell phone spam (1)

ratpick (649064) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803479)

One more piece of spam on my cell phone (an address I have been VERY careful with), and I'm going to purchase an automatic weapon--keep posting their home addresses.

Marketers (2, Informative)

jawtheshark (198669) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803493)

SPAM makes Marketers look bad. I know people around here have no love for marketers at all, but I'm going to show you they are not all bad. My best friend *is* a marketer and I'm an IT guy. (He works for Panda Software [pandasoftware.com] , just to advertise a bit for them)

Anyways, when I told him about practices that spammers use like reselling email lists, scavenging webpages for emails, etc... He was outraged. Yes, you read that right. It just went completely against ethics for him, because that is not what they teached him at the business school.
He even got more outraged when I explained him what spyware is, but that is another can of worms.

Essentially, SPAM and Spyware is what the "real" marketers look bad. They're just the scum of the industry.

Re:Marketers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803808)

Oh, you mean the Panda Software that keeps spamming my work account with offers for anti-virus software??? The one who uses false headers???? The one who can't seem to take a hint that no means no???

Pot=Kettle=Black

Re:Marketers (1)

Random BedHead Ed (602081) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803860)

Quite right, jawtheshark. My girlfriend also works for a marketing company that sends direct e-mail; in fact it's one of the members of this ESPC group. She is similarly outraged by spammers.

What's the difference between spam and the e-mail that these companies send out? The difference is huge: they let you unsubscribe, they don't hide their sending server, and they don't use open relays as a go-between.

If one of these companies sends you mail, you probably asked for it - and if you don't like it, you can easily prevent its recurrence. Though I don't personally like commercial e-mail, many people do ask for it. There are reasons for solicited commercial mail: travel sites send updates about low-cost vacations, Red Hat sends info on its GNU/Linux offerings, and so forth.

These companies send non-spam, and spammers threaten to ruin their businesses. While the idea of a DNS-type lookup service for SMTP is something we shouldn't jump right into, it's good to see that these companies are generating ideas.

Of course if everyone (and I mean everyone) used RBLs like Spamcop that might also take a chink out of the spam problem.

Hmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803496)

So, they want to get rid of the bad spammers, so that they can spam us all over again, but this time with "quality" unsolicited email.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

I'm a spam newbie! (1, Troll)

I'm a racist. (631537) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803521)

Unlike most people, I've been pretty immune to spam.

I've been using email regularly for 8-10 years (since somewhere in high school). I never recieved any spam throughout my undergraduate education (kind of before spam got really big). I haven't stuck with the same email account for more than 3 years, so far. I currently have three accounts that I use regularly.

I posted quite a bit to Usenet for a while as a teenager (enough to get banned from at least 1 ISP). Sometimes, but not always, using the defunct anonymous remailer [penet.fi] . Maybe that was just too long ago to be much of a problem. At my last job (first one out of college), despite being on a number of mailing lists (WAP Forum, IETF, etc), I never got 1 piece of spam in over 2 years.

On my email account for graduate school, I've gotten 2 pieces of spam. Both were from the same place, Britney Spears' resturaunt, Nyla.

My personal email account has never recieved any spam. Again, I'm on a few mailing lists (Optics Society of America, ISOC, etc). But, I do find newsletters to be a bit of a nuisance. Now, at my latest job I'm getting regular spam. I have not made this email address public. I began recieving spam within the first two days of my account being active. The first one I recieved was clearly a dictionary attack (the same username at a bunch of different domains).

I must say, the IS/IT guys at my old company must've done some great filtering. They were generally good people, always knowledgeable and helpful, so I'm not too surprised.

My current university must also be doing a decent job, despite them not being very strong in computer science (note: I don't study computer science there).

Oddly, the bogus email account [excite.com] I use to register for things, gets surprisingly little spam. Mostly, it just gets the crap sent to me when I forget to check/uncheck the "I'm a gullible dumbass" box.

whats wrong with spam?? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803524)

i am debt free
i got 3 more inches
i get viagra without prescription
girls got a crush on me
i got free stuff

My Spam is down -(1/0)% in the past month... (2, Informative)

tigersaw (665217) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803546)

...thanks to mailblocks [mailblocks.com] (click here [slashdot.org] for original article about it). It was a pain at first getting all my contacts and listservs entered into my safelist, but since then I've been 100% spam-free. I just check my pending folder once a week or so for stranded messages. And heck, $10 for a 12MB inbox for three years is a deal compared to the big boys.

Porcus Percoquere Ad Nauseam (3, Funny)

jazman (9111) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803547)

Hmm, Guild of Spammers...sounds like something Terry Pratchett might have thought up for the next installment of Ankh-Morpork.

(Couldn't find "spam" in my Latatian dictionary, which also doesn't have a section on how to convert the infinitive to past tense, so "to cook pig" will have to do.)

Re:Porcus Percoquere Ad Nauseam (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803618)

Often when a word is new to a language it is simply used as-is. (Think of common foreign words used in English, such as "croissant.") After the word has been used a while, sometimes it becomes a word native to the language but with a spelling that is easier for the native speakers to pronounce (for instance, the Spanish word for shampoo is "champu").

ESPC are spammers (5, Funny)

gorbachev (512743) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803553)

"The member list doesn't look too anti-spam to me."

That's damn right. It's the Who's Who of spam-for-hire operations. Every single one of them spams. It's just that they claim their spam is not spam.

Proletariat of the world, unite to kill spammers. Remember to shoot the knees first, so that they can't run away while you slowly torture them to death.

Gulp (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803561)

Now I'll have to figure out somewhere else to get my Blue Pills. I guess I've have to make an embarrassing trip to the doctor's office. Dang ;)

Sure fire way of stopping spam (3, Funny)

dfn5 (524972) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803573)

[wildstar] # sh /etc/init.d/sendmail stop

Re:Sure fire way of stopping spam (1)

minas-beede (561803) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803651)

[wildstar] # sh /etc/init.d/sendmail stop

sendmail -bd used to work, too. For stopping relay spam. It came in, it stayed.

It's more complex now:

http://fightrelayspam.homestead.com/files/antispam 06132002.htm

Email is more useful then the phone (2, Interesting)

zbowling (597617) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803600)

With all this talk about spam, I wondered the legitimacy of using email. I rarely ever get an email from hand-written from anyone anymore, and I ussally send about 1 email a month at most. I mostly use it to register for websites now. I must be wrong though. According to this artical on PCWorld, more IT people prefer using email over calling someone.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,110409 ,0 0.asp

"80 percent [of IT professionals surveyed] said they see e-mail as a more valuable communications method than the telephone, and 74 percent said they would have more difficulty if they lost e-mail access for five days than if they lost phone access ... E-mail is apparently more important [to users] than some companies think"

Eugenics a cure for Spam? (1)

kramer2718 (598033) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803619)

Why not disallow procreation for those who respond to the penis enlargement e-mail that I see advertised in my inbox every day? No one respond to spam -> Spammers do not profit -> Spammers quit spamming

Re:Eugenics a cure for Spam? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803648)

So I guess that means you responded to spam, thats why you get it.

Right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803626)

"Lets us take care of our own, don't let the government legislate us out of business!"

Right. And HOW MANY people WANT unsolicited email again?

This might actually help... (4, Insightful)

Ironica (124657) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803638)

Consider the movie ratings system. It's not in any way government regulated; it's run entirely by the Motion Picture Association of America. Whatever disputes I have with their policies and practices, you have to admit, the industry has been fairly successful at eliminating the need for government regulation through self-regulation.

It sounds more like these spammers are getting together to find a way to continue sending requested marketing email. Spam has gotten so bad that the baby is being thrown out with the bathwater at the ISP level, before the consumer even implements their own filters. They're afraid of losing the ability to market via e-mail *period*, so they've come up with a way to screen it.

If it actually works as they claim (in terms of unsubscribe rules, identifiability, and so forth) it might be a way ISPs could filter out commercial email that *doesn't* conform to this protocol, while still allowing commercial email to happen.

I'm not saying I think it will (or won't) work, but I think this is probably a sincere attempt to regulate commercial email in a manner that will be acceptable to consumers.

Re:This might actually help... (1)

nnet (20306) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803709)

Consider the movie ratings system. It's not in any way government regulated; it's run entirely by the Motion Picture Association of America. Whatever disputes I have with their policies and practices, you have to admit, the industry has been fairly successful at eliminating the need for government regulation through self-regulation.

You can choose what movie to see, or not to see, or whether to see one at all. We don't have that choice with unsolicited email.

Re:This might actually help... (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803865)

The point of the grandparent is that industries are capable of regulating themselves without a bunch of government involvement, or some bill dancing around Congress getting all sorts of zany email restrictions tacked on to it (and I can't believe thats what slashbots want - more government involvement and monitoring in their communications).

Most commercial emails I've gotten were from companies I've done business with in the past. Some I've opted out of and never heard from again, some (like lik-sang.com) I let send me their biweekly product announcements because I want it.

Using email as a marketing tool is effective and non-intrusive when done with some ethics. If I say "dont call/email me again", they shouldnt.

There's only a handful of assholes out there responsible for the Nigeria scams and herbal viagra type crap. Most organizations are legitimate.

If they think they can effectively police themselves, I say we give them the chance. Whatever they do, you better believe it's better than the feds (directly or by proxy through your ISP) scanning all your outgoing data to see if you're spamming.

Give them spam back (4, Interesting)

Pettifogger (651170) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803655)

If everyone really wants to get rid of spam, do what I do. With every delievery, I forward it to my free "spam" account on Yahoo. Then I either send in a bogus order or ask them a lot of pointless questions about their product.

A number of people here have mentioned the extremely low response rate to spam. This is what allows it to survive. Imagine if their response rate went up something like 5000%, but 99% of those were fake, but realistic responses. This would *instantly* kill the profit motive. More staff will be required to process the fake orders/replies, and they'll have a devil of a time weeking out the true from the false responses. Eventually, the profitability scale will tip, and that is when spam will end. No program, list or change in technology is going to stop spam until everyone stands up and gives it right back to them.

Re:Give them spam back (1)

enjo13 (444114) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803745)

I disagree. What your proposing really skirts the line with fraud, and much of it would illegal in about 85% of the world.

I do think your on the right track. The key is to find a way to make Spam expensive. After all, the problem is that these people can send out 80 million e-mails and the total cost is the price of a list and a few dollars in bandwidth. We need to find a way to fight back and make the cost of transmission higher.

How? I have no idea.. but I'd love to hear some ideas.

Meaning (1)

kkirk007 (304967) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803663)

Ah yes, " Lumos ", from the Ancient Greek meaning " really dumb idea "

The plan is backwards (3, Interesting)

mattsucks (541950) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803667)

Their idea, which boils down to a giant opt-out list of email addresses, impresses me not. If they proposed a giant opt-in list, I'd be a bit more excited. Of course, nobody would sign up ... I can't imagine too many email Oliver Twists out there saying "Please sir, may I have some more [spam]?"

And would you entrust your email address under any circumstances to an organization who's entire business is sending marketing email?

Not all the mail YOU don't want is spam... (3, Troll)

seigniory (89942) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803671)

Just because you get an email from one of these companies in your inbox doesn't automatically quantify it as spam.

God forbid that you, as an individual, forget to uncheck a box when you bought your last DVD or CD or book or whatever online. God forbid that you own up to your own impatience and your click click click lifestyle that results in you glazing over or not even caring about the terms and conditions of your latest purchase.

Does it suck that it's so easy to get signed up for some mailing lists? Absolutely. But you know what? The fact remains that even if you make it as easy as possible and have DOUBLE-opt-IN mailing lists, it's inevitable that someone will complain and accuse you of spamming them. It's human nature. I know from experience.

Are there shady companies scouring around for email addresses? Sure, but any established company with a decent bankroll, employees, investors, would NEVER stoop to such levels - it's too much of a risk. You wouldn't believe the legal mumbo-jumbo I have to go through just to send out my monthly newsletters - and I'm not even considering myself one of those "established companies". All conspiracy theories and "Well I had a bad time with..." experiences aside, as a majority, companies DO respect your wishes when it comes to receiving email - they DO respect your wishes to keep your address private - and they DO make sure that you're happy with the way you're treated. They have too much at stake to behave like children and rebels when it comes to mailing you.

Like a number of other issues bouncing around this world today, the SPAM problem seems to have taken on a life of its own. Everyone's all about jumping on the anti-SPAM bandwagon and complaining on message boards about "The Man" and his itchy SMTP trigger finger. Is spam annoying? Sure. I'll be the first to say that something really needs to be done about all the huge penis emails I get every day - I'm fine with my super-python - leave me alone already!!! :-P

Well you know what? These people that do email for a living ARE trying to do something about it and what do we hear on /. ??? The classic "(insert name here) is trying to take our rights away and make money off of us and they suck. Open source forever and Linus rules my world and does email suck so much when blogging is the communication method of the future".

These companies know that they need email to survive, and so they're making sure that classic penis/Viagra/Nigeria spam doesn't give them a bad name. Pure and simple. You should be glad that something like this is happening. It might not cut down on the solicitations you get in your email, but at least all those ads will be for things you like, or have signed up for. Ever wonder why you don't see commercials for Gerritol & Depends on Cartoon Network at 2:00am? No old people are up watching it because the advertisers have a well-defined and mature methodology of knowing where and how to promote their products on TV and they don't have to worry about their audience getting annoyed by ads for things that they don't want.

Marketing and advertising is here to stay for good, people - it's everywhere, including email. Even if this plan isn't perfect, we should at least be applauding someone for doing something proactively about the issue instead of reactively. Not all ads are "evil". Spam sucks, targeted marketing about things I'M interested in is welcome - if there's no easy way to filter out the good from the bad everyone loses.

Re:Not all the mail YOU don't want is spam... (3, Insightful)

Frostalicious (657235) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803791)

Ever wonder why you don't see commercials for Gerritol & Depends on Cartoon Network at 2:00am? No old people are up watching it because the advertisers have a well-defined and mature methodology of knowing where and how to promote their products on TV and they don't have to worry about their audience getting annoyed by ads for things that they don't want.

Don't compare spam email with television ads, there is a fundamental difference.

TV ads help pay for my TV experience.
On the other hand, spam emailers make me pay for receiving their emails, through higher ISP bills.

One of these situations is a mutually beneficial business agreement, and the other is exploitation. Can you guess which is which?

Image Makeover (4, Interesting)

Steve B (42864) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803674)

Basically, these guys want to shake off the image of the sleazoids who sell you herbal Viagra to get your larger penis up while you watch images of hot teen lesbians.

However, they don't show any sign of being willing to bite the bullet and accept a pure Opt-In model -- which is the only way they can avoid the name "spammer".

It is now escalating out of control (4, Interesting)

Boss, Pointy Haired (537010) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803682)

As the owner of several domain names I am now facing the problem from 2 angles -

That of me receiving SPAM to my personal email account(s), _AND_ that of my domain names being used in the from/reply-to addresses of SPAM email.

The latter I actually find more frustrating. What makes it worse is my domain name is being used in HTML emails - your average [l]user has no idea that it is HTML, and in the message body sees only "EXTEND YOUR PENIS NATURALLY CLICK HERE" in big bright purple letters. The fact that the link goes to http://www.iamascumbagspammer.com/ is not apparent - what they do see however is my domain name in the from line of their email client.

I actually think that the we would be better off if the anti-spammers stopped pursuing their cause and just let spam take out the Internet's email system.

Then we can start again from scratch.

Surely SMTP's time is up.

Re:It is now escalating out of control (1)

nnet (20306) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803823)

A complete rewrite of smtp is an excellent idea. Prevent spoofing of source email addresses, disable html in email, possibly even limit attachment types and/or sizes.

Re:It is now escalating out of control (1)

jepaton (662235) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803853)

An article on spam is quite appropriate right now, particularly as dozens of mailer daemon responses fill my inbox - it is abuse my address to spam day :( It *should* be easy to sue for impersonation, but it most definately isn't. When the lawyers fail, it's time for a technical solution - replacing SMTP *could* help.

ESPC Link -- Sure, I'll give my E-mail address (2, Interesting)

richg74 (650636) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803759)

The ESPC page linked to above has this headline:
Fighting Spam While Protecting Email as a Legitimate Communication Tool
Then, they helpfully offer to send me details of their proposal. What a good idea! I am just totally convinced of their sincerity by their request for my E-mail address so they can explain how helpful they'll be.

Do they think turkeys vote for Christmas ?

Where is Jon Katz? (-1)

Xenix (232152) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803766)

  • 2003-04-24 20:52:37 Where's Jon Katz? (askslashdot,slashdot) (rejected)

I was doing some research and noticed that Mr. Katz hasn't posted an article in literally a year. What is going on here? Didn't all of us as a slashdot community enjoy beating up on Jon with every post, complaining of his arrogance, his lack of foresight. Screaming for justice and his violent, untimely death. Jon was bait for the very WORST of the trolls. No serious discussion was ever accomplished. He was the comic relief (not that damn large foot stuff) of site, now we have nothing. Come back, Jon. Please, come back.

The IETF has an anti-spam research group (2, Interesting)

NFW (560362) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803786)

Why don't these people get involved [irtf.org] , and discuss their plans with people who really understand the issues involved in reinventing SMTP?

Perhaps because that that is the very last thing these people actually want?

What about Bonded Sender? (1)

andrewm (9862) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803806)

Bonded sender already exists, and the spam still flows: http://www.bondedsender.org/

Do we need yet another similar organization... oh wait, the spammers want to run this one themselves this time. Ya, I have a lot of confidence in them to do it right.

Are you sure it's spam? (1)

ryanvm (247662) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803832)

Are you sure those are spams, Taco?

I thought I was getting 50 spam messages a day. Then I found out it was just my wife wanting me to get a bigger penis.

Taco, you track your spam by quarter? (1)

Call Me Black Cloud (616282) | more than 10 years ago | (#5803863)

Dude, you have a wife now. Can't you think of something better to do with your time?

Announcement of great religious significance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5803904)

Sorry to interrupt, but Jesus just sent me a message through /dev/urandom. The message is "CUMBOX VR". I don't know what it means. It might be Nintendo's secret console project.
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