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Around The World In 1 Year (On A Website)

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the vacation-on-sealand dept.

The Internet 86

chrischoo writes "From the guys who brought you a crushing experience, Tsunamii.Net and Fragnetics are working on taking the Tsunamii.Net website around the world by obtaining webhosting services in 44 countries. Known as alpha 3.8 Translocation, it is commissioned by the Walker Arts Center. The website is now on it's second stop in Malaysia. Our teams need the help of the Slashdot community to plot a traceroute for each server we visit. Traceroutes are plotted onto a world map which is refreshed every time the website stops at a new server in a different geographical location. Our next stops include Thailand and Myanmar. It'll be great if we have more people willing to sponsor a webserver from your country to host one of the Tsunamii stopovers!"

cancel ×

86 comments

Cool... (5, Funny)

inertia@yahoo.com (156602) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816163)

1. Beowulf cluster - $900
2. Airline tickets with bulk baggage - $3000
3. Spending two nights in customs - just your dignity
4. Getting it all Slashdotted after all that - priceless

There are some things money can't buy.
For everything else, there's Mastercard [martin-studio.com] .

Re:Cool... (0, Offtopic)

pipingguy (566974) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816362)

"...Getting it all Slashdotted..."

Can you all stop being so self-referential from now on?

It's getting pretty pathetic (little boy with plastic army men vs. rubber monster pathetic), "ooh, look I'm part of an IMPORTANT GROUP OF PEOPLE because I can help to melt/destroy/liquefy/ someone else's server." The hyperbole is stunning and tells a lot about the shortcomings of the writer. Did I mention pathetic?

Re:Cool... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816381)

It's getting pretty pathetic (little boy with plastic army men vs. rubber monster pathetic), "ooh, look I'm part of an IMPORTANT GROUP OF PEOPLE because I can help to melt/destroy/liquefy/ someone else's server." The hyperbole is stunning and tells a lot about the shortcomings of the writer. Did I mention pathetic?

And that, my friend, is why I never read the articles. It's hip to be different.

Re:Cool... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816521)

I don't get it. That's too deep. Going back to melting things...huh...hey little ants...huh...

Don't click the Mastercard link!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5816838)

I don't know how it was done, but I went to that Mastercard link, and when I clicked "No, thanks" the web page it went to had one of my web passwords in the URL! I've changed that password now, but I don't know how it was gotten.

I'm running Phoenix 0.5 btw.

Good news! (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816164)

This could just be the thing to stop the offshore outsourcing craze ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2977035.stm Quote ... "It appears to be contained, certainly in developed countries, by very good containment and monitoring practices. "The concerns lie in the large populous regions of the world: China, India, Indonesia, where the disease reporting systems are limited and it is much less clear to work out what is going on there."

Hello Test (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816167)

Hi

Frenchy says (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816173)

suuuck eet

How original! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816176)

Tsunamii.Net and Fragnetics are working on taking the Tsunamii.Net website around the world by obtaining webhosting services in 44 countries.

You mean... just like your standard warez site?

Uhh... Why? (3, Insightful)

Jack William Bell (84469) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816179)

Somehow this doesn't excite me too much. I mean really, why would this be cool enough to be worth the effort?

But then, I never did understand why some people consider Open Source and art form [slashdot.org] .

Re:Uhh... Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816208)

zzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZ, and more zzzzzzz (snooze)

Re:Uhh... Why? (2, Insightful)

Telex4 (265980) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816573)

Somehow this doesn't excite me too much. I mean really, why would this be cool enough to be worth the effort?


It's not exactly exciting, but it's an interesting statement, and a lot of art can essentially boil down to little more than that. The web is this worldwide phenomenon, and yet each site is located in one particular place on the globe -- why not turn the system on its head a little and have the web site rove around the world, being hosted all over the place. I say turn the system on its head, when of course in another sense it demonstrates the flexibility of the DNS/IP system. One could go so far as to say that it shows just how insignificant the web has made geography, and national borders, when it comes to information, when not one part of the web site's chain (from the hard drive to you) need be located in one place. It's also interesting to see your traceroute along with other peoples', and I'm sure that in time some interesting, and probably quite aesthetically interesting patterns will emerge.

Of course, the creators probably have much better explanations, but that's my immediate interpretation. That's the great thing about art - it serves to provoke us into seeing things from a different perspective; it questions the way we see the world, and even though it may not seem as wonderful as a huge canvas painting, this sort of art definitely has its place.

and to be /.'d in every country... (3, Funny)

caino59 (313096) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816180)

that will be great bragging rights

(depending how you look at it)

Re:and to be /.'d in every country... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816358)

Shut up you communist
something should go here

hi

how retarded (-1, Flamebait)

JeffSh (71237) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816188)

that is one of the dumbest, idiotic waste of resources ive ever seen. typically this kind of crap is reserved for accounting people who run IT departments

A link for fotos (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816198)

Re:A link for fotos (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816222)

You, my good sir, are a peckerhead!

MOD PARENT D0WN HOMOEROTIC ALERT !!OMG LOL (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816262)


HAHAHA OMFG lol LMAO haha OK CU THX BI

interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816203)

I wonder how the performance of the system will change over time?

Its also interesting that the entire basis of the site is this idea and there is no other content.

Re:interesting (1)

Uber Banker (655221) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816346)

Did you they the traceroot program. Yeah they're always available... but looking at others' traceroots is just more interesting... like a guy in Bangkok had been routed via the same route as me (I'm in the UK) across the US.

Hmmm, saying that makes it all seem a bit sad.

It's versus its (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816217)

The website is now on it's second stop in Malaysia.

Hmm, would an "its" be better in that context? I can be forgiving about this in comments, but in the main article, you should try to follow such simple rules. I learn that rule in 4th grade. That means, I learnt that the first year I studied English.

I'd better post this anonymously :}

Re:It's versus its (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816241)

Welcom too Slashdot! You must be new aroond heer. The editing policiy, its that reederz must loose there grasp on greammar and joost enjoys the ride.

Proudly published by Americans, for the Americans' reading pleasure.

from Malaysia (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816224)

Hello MUM

Servers (1)

-Rainer38- (660997) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816227)

Where does this system get you (other than the cultural ideas)? The ability to crash servers then move to the next?

moron circling the globe with wwwebsites (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816234)

that's how it's supposed to work.

most would be better off to find 1-2 web server providers who are dependable & value concious.

the 'around the world' part, we think, is when YOU/your products/services are findable from anywhere on the wwmap.

anecdotal hobbyist projects aside, the rest of the glowbull fairytail scammage we've been fed buy Godless ?pr? agents of those whoreabull payper liesense peddlers from upon the pacific crest annex of capitollist hill/wall street of deceit, is greed/fear based execrable.

lookout bullow.

Farthest away (2, Interesting)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816240)

Well, semi-on-topic, sort of... The e-mail from farthest away I have ever received was from - Antarctica! I got it from a colleague back in 1991 (or was it 1992?) who was on a research vessel visiting Antarctica. I had it printed in my drawer for years, as a collectible, and after few room switches and h/d-crashes all traces are lost... sigh

Re:Farthest away (2, Insightful)

SN74S181 (581549) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816504)

Just type it all out again from memory with vi or emacs. Nobody will know the difference.

Content ... (1, Insightful)

Sod75 (558841) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816243)

I would've guessed they at least put some CONTENT on the site worth travelling around the world... Oh well...as long as they don't fill it with SARS !!

This would be a lot cooler if... (5, Insightful)

kinnell (607819) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816265)

They served loads of content which was politically or culturally sensitive in some way. The actual content of the website would change from country to country to reflect governmental regulations, or the sensitivities or responsibility of whoever was hosting the site at the time.

Re:This would be a lot cooler if... (1)

joejoejoejoe (231600) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816349)

That's called the Internet. Why mockup/simulate what already exists.

Now if the concept was slashdot-a-country-per-day that'd be cool. Monitor the effects of page availability of other sites in the country that were not specifically slashdoted, etc. Similar to what Keynote [keynote.com] does.

Could we bump a country off the internet just for giggles? Hmmm.

Re:This would be a lot cooler if... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816369)

The actual content of the website would change from country to country to reflect governmental regulations

Not would, will!
You think something doesn't have to follow regulations?

Re:This would be a lot cooler if... (2, Insightful)

floydigus (415917) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816556)

Not 'cooler', but 'cool'! i.e. it might have some cache if there was any point to it at all!!!

What a waste of effort!

If you ever get this bored, please consider donating time to a voluntary environmental organisation.

correlating IP addresses to physical locations (5, Insightful)

jonbrewer (11894) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816272)

Tsunamii's map would be a lot prettier if they'd try to do some intelligent parsing of router dns entries. For example, they treat 24.91.0.46 as located in the "United States" when in fact its name places it in Massachusetts. (bar02-p7-0.ndhmhe1.ma.attbb.net) Given the relatively small number of providers who carry the bulk of international IP traffic, it should be easy for them to decypher the naming conventions used by ATT, Sprint, Verio, Teleglobe, Global Crossing, C&W, etc. to parse out state and city names so that traffic from the US doesn't look like it's all coming from Branson Missouri, and traffic from Canada coming from bumfuck Saskatchewan. (I mean, Saskatchewan is a nice place and all, but there aren't exactly a lot of people there)

Re:correlating IP addresses to physical locations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816317)

Ditto on Saskatchewan. Ontario r00lz.

Oh yeah, SARS whatever.

Re:correlating IP addresses to physical locations (2, Funny)

serial frame (236591) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816361)

This is something I was pondering before...It would be interesting to put lat/lon coordinates for various hosts in a domain's TXT records. Seems easy enough, I suppose. I guess it would have its limitations, but hey.

Re:correlating IP addresses to physical locations (1)

QuMa (19440) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816718)

It's already done, but it's put in a LOC record, not in the free-form TXT record. (google for it)

Re:correlating IP addresses to physical locations (1, Informative)

nakaduct (43954) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816603)

traffic from Canada coming from bumfuck Saskatchewan

If you're referring to Canada's geographic centre, that would be Boumfouque, Saskatchewan. Moron.

Re:correlating IP addresses to physical locations (3, Informative)

thebigmacd (545973) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816770)

If you're referring to Canada's geographic centre, that would be Boumfouque, Saskatchewan. Moron.

How did this get moderated to +1 Informative? For one thing the geographical center of Canada is Brandon, Manitoba. For another, don't be sarcastic when moderating...there's not much evidence for people to see your sarcasm...for I am assuming the moderator was being sarcastic with that moderation of +1 Informative. + FUNNY, yes I can see that.

Re:correlating IP addresses to physical locations (1)

madmancarman (100642) | more than 11 years ago | (#5819868)

for I am assuming the moderator was being sarcastic with that moderation of +1 Informative. + FUNNY, yes I can see that.

This is Slashdot. I think you're assuming too much (especially considering non-Canadians' geographical knowledge of Canada).

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi

Brandon isn't the center (1)

saskboy (600063) | more than 11 years ago | (#5883447)

I'm not sure why you got modded Informative. Brandon isn't even in the north half of Manitoba, so it can't be the geographic center of Canada.

Re:Brandon isn't the center (1)

thebigmacd (545973) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885900)

Sorry, I was unclear...longitudinal center of Canada

Re:correlating IP addresses to physical locations (1)

blueHal (9304) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816678)

it should be easy for them to decypher the naming conventions used by ATT, Sprint, Verio, Teleglobe, Global Crossing, C&W, etc.
It turns out to be rather difficult to maintain a database like this one due to the natural growth and mergers of ISPs (anybody remember ebone?) and the ambiguity of place names like Rochester (Minnesota, not New York, in Qwest), Springfield (Massachussets, not Illinois in Sprint), Vienna (Austria or Virginia?), etc. Resolving these requires humans and humans take time.

Despite the challenge, research projects do decode these names to recover router locations, including Subramanian and Padmanabhan's Geotrack [acm.org] and UW's Rocketfuel [acm.org] . The tsunamii folks may be able to reuse these schemes to redraw their map with a better approximation to real network paths.

Re:correlating IP addresses to physical locations (1)

jonbrewer (11894) | more than 11 years ago | (#5824810)

research projects do decode these names to recover router locations, including Subramanian and Padmanabhan's Geotrack [acm.org] and UW's Rocketfuel [acm.org].

Great stuff! Thanks for the links.

Saskatchewan: Technology leader (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5816821)

Maybe you should check your facts first. Saskatchewan is an emerging leader in several high-tech sectors. Consider the synchrotron [usask.ca] and a thriving biotech sector as just a couple of examples. At least do a little search next time before you imply such negative stereotypes.

Re:Saskatchewan: Technology leader (1)

Idarubicin (579475) | more than 11 years ago | (#5817705)

Consider the synchrotron [usask.ca] and a thriving biotech sector as just a couple of examples.

Why is the new synchrotron located in Saskatchewan? I humbly submit that it is because it is smarter to build a large facility--one that generates significant radiation, not to mention powerful electric and magnetic fields--in a province that is mostly flat, mostly empty, and has low real estate costs.

Why a thriving biotech sector? Might have something to do with agribusiness...a whole heck of a lot of Saskatchewan is farmland.

You're right, Saskatchewan is not exclusively flat farmland, and there was no need for the grandparent poster to be rude. But cut him some slack--he probably just couldn't think of the names of any cities in Saskatchewan. Looking at the map generated from the traceroute, his complaint seems valid--the dot for Canada really is in the middle of nowhere (maybe in Prince Albert National Park--even the most devoted fans of Saskatchewan's budding technology industries won't claim that that is a bastion of high technology).

Re:correlating IP addresses to physical locations (1)

The Welcome Rain (31576) | more than 11 years ago | (#5819889)

IP localization is an interesting problem. At one time, MIDS [mids.org] (later Matrix.Net, later Matrix NetSystems, current status unknown) had a nice page which would provide you with a mapped traceroute. However, it doesn't appear to be available anymore [mids.org] . If anyone knows of a functionally equivalent service being offered by a competitor, that would be useful to know.

Slash-Log (2, Funny)

Malicious (567158) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816289)

Their next adventure should be keeping a log of the IP's that helped slashdotted them.

Then plot that on a map, and see where the bulk of the /.'ing came from.

Re:Slash-Log (1)

HowlinMad (220943) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816370)

except fo the fact that I am apparently in the middle of Missouri. I guess I don't live in Ohio anymore.....

And the point is? (2, Interesting)

JaredOfEuropa (526365) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816290)

No, really. Not trying to troll here, I'm curious what people hope to achieve with this.

Re:And the point is? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816522)

Absolutely nothing. That's the beauty of it.

Trolls must unite. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816313)

Some one go to the store and by more beer, I feel too lazy to go.

I've got big trolls
I've got big trolls
They're such big trolls
And they're dirty big trolls
And he's got big trolls
And she's got big trolls
(But we've got the biggest trolls of them all)

Re:Trolls must unite. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816617)

bon scott ruled

Star Trek SUCKS (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816344)

I'd rather watch roseanne, richard simmons and ronald mcdonald have a orgy.

The Route (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816365)

Is it just me, or might the good folks at the US Department of Homeland Security get more than a little interested by a path (and consequentially the company that facilitates the path) that takes traffic from Canada through the US and on to Cuba?

It is not that I am getting paranoid these days, I always have been paranoid.

cool idea (2, Insightful)

gobbligook (465653) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816394)

This could be a bit off topic.

The whole point of this is a STUDY. That doesn't mean it has to have a purpose aside from educational.

I think this is a good idea. However it could lead to the government deciding that everyone was supposed to have a dedicated ip address. That way a simple traceroute could tell them where you were at any given time anywhere in the world. Much like credit card transactions can be tracked by number and location.

They are trying to do this with phone numbers. Although there are benefits to keeping the same phone number, it is alternatively an easy way to keep track of someone.

Re:cool idea (1)

devmike (581881) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816810)

and IPs are easily portable when EVERYBODY does it?

You can't really do that without making the routing tables even more ungodly huge than they already are.

Everytime you sign in, you would have to have your new upstream (since we're signing in from ANYWHERE) advertise your IP on the BGP tables. That's fine for /19s and bigger, but is fucking impossible to have BGP peer every single IP individually.

Apparently there's work going on in this area for wireless mesh networks and the like, but it isn't practical on a world-wide basis.

icons missing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816396)

what happened to the icons for the story subject? has /. been hax0red?

im sorry but it needs to be said (0, Troll)

silicongodcom (241132) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816404)

GO OUTSIDE!!!!

How about.. (1)

Sethus (609631) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816429)

Two words, The moon.

I want my webspace hosted off of the moon! Out of this world website speed! (and reliability!)

Re:How about.. (1)

lordrich (647355) | more than 11 years ago | (#5818604)

Would the International Space Station be good enough? That would be more easy to do, though expensive. Alpha Centauri would be the coolest place, just think of the ping time though.

excerpt from alpha 3.8 bulletin. (1)

dangermuseum (668967) | more than 11 years ago | (#5922453)

SEEMS like this is totally possible! * Bridging the Interplanetary DIGITAL DIVIDE! Someone did say they wanted to host their site on the moon. The Interplanetary Internet from the building-for-the-future dept. posted by Hemos on Monday May 05, @10:16 (internet) http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/05/112722 1

did anyone read fragnetics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816491)

as "fagnetics"?

I know I did. Does that mean I have homo tendencies?

Re:did anyone read fragnetics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816599)

no, that doesn't

but posting that question means you secretly wish to be anally raped. possibly in prison

Backpack instead (1)

dazdaz (77833) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816492)

Ummm so why don't these guys just backpack around the world, why do they require an excuse using a PC as elaborate as this?

Shit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816555)

What a pathetic waste of time shit idea.

Fuck em, and fuck you too.

Re:Shit (1)

szczym (651378) | more than 11 years ago | (#5817845)

ohh yes, DO me well my brother today

I Do Not Understand (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5816597)

Someone please tell me why this is a cool project, or even a good idea. I am just sitting here thinking about how stupid this is. I am certain that I am missing something, as slashdot would not post a useless / pointless article just to confuse me. Thanks.

And here we go... (1)

stefanb (21140) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816659)

Our teams need the help of the Slashdot community to plot a traceroute for each server we visit.

For the next few days, you need new hosts every few minutes, as they and their connections buckle under the load...

DNS LOC records (1)

spongman (182339) | more than 10 years ago | (#5816676)

why not use DNS LOC records to get better geographical locations of the browsers?

Myanmar? Whoa? (4, Interesting)

ElGanzoLoco (642888) | more than 11 years ago | (#5816819)

Are they serious about going to Myanmar with their website?

I've lived there for three years, 1993-1996. Myanmar is ruled by a repressive, brutal and notoriously paranoid military junta.
In a nutshell, "they no like internet".

Going in the country with a computer is theoretically not permitted. Using a fax machine or the internet to connect abroad is considered a crime. Nationals face jail for this (and strangers too, in theory, but that never happened I think) and, trust me, you positively DON'T WANT TO GO TO JAIL in Myanmar. (death is not the maximal sentence over there: it is only second to death... by torture)

Besides, I'm not sure you would/could actually be able to host a website there (hint: without the government's permission, it's probably "forget it"). A mere slashdotting could bring the whole country's internet system to its knees. Even the government's websites are hosted in other countries, mostly US and Australia. Only some of them are in Rangoon...

Well, maybe things have changed over there. But somehow, I doubt it.

Re:Myanmar? Whoa? (2, Insightful)

nettdata (88196) | more than 11 years ago | (#5816989)

Going in the country with a computer is theoretically not permitted. Using a fax machine or the internet to connect abroad is considered a crime. Nationals face jail for this (and strangers too, in theory, but that never happened I think) and, trust me, you positively DON'T WANT TO GO TO JAIL in Myanmar. (death is not the maximal sentence over there: it is only second to death... by torture)

Hmmm... this just went from being useless, boring, WTF, non-news to being somewhat interesting. :)

No change, but a few sites I think (1)

Heisenbug (122836) | more than 11 years ago | (#5817302)

Last I checked (about a year ago) it was a big deal that they were letting some of the (state censored) news sites go online -- outside the country only, since as you say most people inside the country aren't allowed computers. The trouble was, since all the content had to be posted by the government to insure that no illicit information got out, when it went up at all it was a couple of months behind the print version.

Anyway, there is at least some web serving capacity in the country. Still, I agree with you -- I can't imagine how these guys arranged this, and I hope it didn't mean dealing with that regime.

Not bringing in a computer (1)

vraddict (653878) | more than 11 years ago | (#5817353)

If you read their concept a little more carefully, you would recognize that they are not bringing a computer or fax machine, or even a body into Myanmar, or any other country on their list. They are simply uploading the website to a webserver in each country, then updating the dns entry to the new IP address.

BTW how were you able to live there for 3 years without a computer? That my friend was self inflicted torture, can't blame the junta for that.

Re:Not bringing in a computer (1)

ElGanzoLoco (642888) | more than 11 years ago | (#5818427)

If you read their concept a little more carefully, you would recognize that they are not bringing a computer or fax machine, or even a body into Myanmar, or any other country on their list. They are simply uploading the website to a webserver in each country, then updating the dns entry to the new IP address.

I did, in fact, RTFA. My point being that the simple fact of hosting a webserver over there is complicated. I mean, nationals don't even have the right to own a computer. And I'm pretty sure you need the junta's authorization to do such a thing as a webserver (they won't deliver authorizations). And I'm pretty sure the junta is not sensible to the artistic / technical experiment argumentation: we're talking about a regime so paranoid that the customs confiscated my remote control car (I was 13 at the time) because they feared it was some kind of terrorist artefact (that's the official reason: i know for a fact that anything of value going through the customs would end up in the hands of some minister's/general's kid. I probably still have a copy of that letter somewhere. It's hilarious.)

BTW how were you able to live there for 3 years without a computer? That my friend was self inflicted torture, can't blame the junta for that.

Well... this is where we got our first Macintosh (Performa 5200, the only machine that would work in these ranges of temperature and humidity) we bought to an american expatriate. This was, of course, absolutely illegal. But the junta is not in a position to expell westerners and NGO's staff.

I even remember us trying to get internet access... But since there were no ISP's, we needed the modem to phone up to Thailand -> it wouldn't work often, and it would cost something like 6 USD/minute. So we waited to come back to France to discover the internet :)

Re:Myanmar? Whoa? (2, Informative)

grumpygrodyguy (603716) | more than 11 years ago | (#5817577)

Myanmar is ruled by a repressive, brutal and notoriously paranoid military junta.
In a nutshell, "they no like internet".


Yes it's true. I travelled through Myanmar(aka Burma) for several weeks, and the parent poster is right on.

One thing that I found really interesting, there were only 2 places in the country where I could use my credit card. The national bank in rangoon, and mandalay. That's right, 2 places in the entire country that accept credit cards in order to withdraw funds. Not exactly the most modern of countries.

I stayed with a group of buddhist monks for a week, and they were absolutely astounded when I showed them a US dollar. US currency is outlawed there, as the government controls exchange and tourism. Kinda creepy, rough place to live.

Re:Myanmar? Whoa? (1)

dipfan (192591) | more than 11 years ago | (#5818630)

Absolutely right: not much has changed in Burma, it's still a brutal and repressive military regime - one that almost makes Saddam Hussain look like Abraham Lincoln. This is one country that could really use regime change.

Frankly, even pointing an IP address there is loathsome. There's an international boycott of the country in protest at the human rights abuses, lots more information on that here [burmacampaign.org.uk] .

Re:Myanmar? Whoa? (1)

ElGanzoLoco (642888) | more than 11 years ago | (#5818697)

Absolutely right: not much has changed in Burma, it's still a brutal and repressive military regime - one that almost makes Saddam Hussain look like Abraham Lincoln.
Hmmm... this is exagerated, at the least. I don't want to compare two juntas in two totally different contexts, but I don't think Saddam's regime was any milder than the burmese's is. Both are equally horrid.


This is one country that could really use regime change.


Yeah, but guess what? There's no oil in Burma, so I don't think Burma is in the DoD's or the State Departement's radar. There's plenty of gas, though, but Unocal is there already (with TotalFinaElf + the local state-run company), so there's no need to launch a war there. Which is all the best, because the last thing the Burmese need is war.

I'm confident that in the end, the people in Burma will topple the regime by themselves. The junta is fragilized internally (generals rivalling each other) and externally. For example, the junta can no longer afford to incarcerate Ms. Aung San Suu Kyi (the historical democratic opponent to the regime, who's been around since 1988) as they did before: because of the international outcry it would cause, and because a vast majority of the Burmese back her.

Re:Myanmar? Whoa? (1)

chrischoo (668921) | more than 11 years ago | (#5819306)

Yeah it'll be kinda difficult for our teams to get webhosting in some of these countries, but we'll be trying anyway and documenting the procedures that we go through and the correspondence. For Myanmar we've discovered that they now offer webhosting services - http://www.bagan.net.mm . We aren't saying that we'll get it for sure, but the whole point of this is to show that the Internet is not the free medium everybody seems to think it is. Just looking at the traces alone in the past day shows that either hardly anybody in Africa reads Slashdot or Africa hardly has access to the Internet at all. The Middle Eastern countries seem very detached as well, and we're hoping to be able to get some form of webhosting there even if it might not be on a 24/7 server.

Re:Myanmar? Whoa? (1)

ElGanzoLoco (642888) | more than 11 years ago | (#5820348)

Yup... I noticed www.bagan.net.mm... Did a traceroute to that IP. The program I use (iFoundU for OS X) has it ending up in ... Milton, Australia. (The program might be wrong, though, and showing the location of the ISP rather than the one of the IP itself; only IP I could find that pointed to rangoon was www.e-application.com.mm, which are government-run.)

Though, it's a good idea to document what kind of procedures you go through to be able to host a webserver over there...

but the whole point of this is to show that the Internet is not the free medium everybody seems to think it is. Just looking at the traces alone in the past day shows that either hardly anybody in Africa reads Slashdot or Africa hardly has access to the Internet at all. The Middle Eastern countries seem very detached as well

Ok... I understand better now.

Myanmar? Whoa? - trhings are changing. (1)

dangermuseum (668967) | more than 11 years ago | (#5822489)

I did an interview - with a friend who works in Yangon,who started an art center there. When the project first started, he said it was impossible to use internet and an e-mail account cost 150US$. But he just came back and said it has changed... they are allowing internet surfing (of course a luxury for corporates) but even bangan.net.mm is probably owned by the government.

"Myanmar has one of the high literacy as a country. Bookshops are extrememly popular. - And also schools set up to teach web-design - but no internet access yet". - a quip from the interview on Myanamr internet experience, from alpha 3.8 archive.

Re:Myanmar? Whoa? - trhings are changing. (1)

ElGanzoLoco (642888) | more than 11 years ago | (#5823538)

But he just came back and said it has changed... they are allowing internet surfing

Nice to see things changing over there, even if it's "the burmese way": sloooooowly.
The junta probably just figured out they needed internet to appeal to foreign investment and tourists? (the junta badly needs cash right now, and is trying to develop tourism and economic activity). bagan.net.mm is probably state-run, or at least tightly controlled.
I wonder if they run some kind of filtering, like China does?

A new milestone (2, Funny)

cr@ckwhore (165454) | more than 11 years ago | (#5817283)

OH MY GOD! We've Slashdotted Luxembourg!

Goldeneye anyone??? (1)

ciroknight (601098) | more than 11 years ago | (#5817436)

This really reminds me of that one scene where natalia punches in all that crap to traceroute to boris' computer in south america (you know, the one with the big satalite dish). it wasn't all that great of an effect, but it was a neat demonstration of technology anyways...

This is at the Walker? Sweet! (1)

jaybird144 (558619) | more than 11 years ago | (#5818200)

I don't know if this exhibit was at the Walker the last time I was there...I'll have to check it out next time I have a weekend free. Something other than the cherry-on-the-spoon, at least. ^_^ Although, I don't seem to see any mention of this project on the Walker site listed in the article...does anyone know if there will be anything at the actual museum comemmorating this project? Or is it just for those of us "in the know"?

EuropeAsia (1)

csteinle (68146) | more than 11 years ago | (#5818424)

Looking at the traceroutes there remind me of something that I've wondered about for some time. Is there any point in trying to route some of the traffic between Europe and Asia more directly (i.e. avoiding the Americas)?

Even traffic from here in the UK to India goes via the States. Africa is the same.

Routing Asymmetry and DNS lookups (1)

billstewart (78916) | more than 11 years ago | (#5821423)

Unfortunately, the Malaysian parts of network mostly don't support reverse DNS lookups, so I can't tell where they are, though some of them are Telekom Malaysia [AS4788], and the actual machines are part of AS17464, address space owned by Telekom Malaysia's hosting division, but might be operated by Webvisions, a company in nearby Singapore. It'd be nice if the Tsunamii folks could provide a bit more information. Telekom Malaysia [AS4788] has BGP connections with UUNET [AS701], Sprintlink[AS1239], and Teleglobe[AS6453], and Eastgate[AS17971] (which looks like it's probably also owned by or related to Telekom Malaysia.) Some other connections include Reach [AS4637] (well-connected), Solsis [AS17736] (a couple hops from Verio), and some people who look like customers.

Standard Internet BGP routing is asymmetric and location-dependent unless somebody tweaks it to do otherwise - the path followed by packets in one direction may be entirely different than the path followed by packets in the opposite direction. I took the traceroute provided by Tsunamii, and tracerouted to the different nodes on it to see what I could find. Depending on which node in Malaysia I traced to, the hop across the Pacific either went from UUNET in Sacramento, California, UUNET in Los Angeles, California, or Sprint in San Jose, California (if you're not from around here, Los Angeles is in the South and San Jose and Sacramento are in the north, and probably take a different set of cables across the Pacific.) It's somewhat frustrating that the Tsunamii mapping application draws those links going across the Atlantic, Europe, and Asia instead of the Pacific, just because it's fewer miles from the center of the US to Malaysia that way.

While there are ways to get to Telekom Malaysia that don't go through Sprint or UUNET, none of the US ISPs I tried used them - too many extra hops, even for the one that peered with Verio in the US (aka NTT), though I didn't try from anywhere that had Genuity that didn't also have UUNET.

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