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Grokster's President Talks About Court Win

CmdrTaco posted more than 11 years ago | from the future-of-file-sharing dept.

News 135

An anonymous reader writes "Now that the Morpheus/Grokster trial is over, the heads of the various P2P services are hoisting their glasses in triumph. Ciarán Tannam interviews Grokster President Wayne Rosso to get his two cents on the verdict. Xolox also applauded the ruling and posted this release. Of course, it aint over yet as the RIAA has vowed appeal."

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Frost knob (-1, Troll)

Trolly McTroll-Troll (632114) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849738)

-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-
P_______________________8..P
E__Bow down to the_____#~..E
N__Lord's penis_______8.',-N
I_____________________#',-.I
S__Jesus wants your__8',-..S
-__anus, and he_____#~',-..-
P__wants it NOW!____8_',-..P
E__________________##',-',-E
N__An original_____8',-',";N
I__TrollKore(TM)_____##',-',";I
S__work of art.___8',-',";.S
-__By Dessimat0r ##',-',";.-
P________________8',-',";,.P
E_______________#'',-',";,.E
N______________8(',-',";,..N
I_____________#(',-',";,.,.I
S__________#8#8_',-',";,.,.S
-_________#',-.8',-',";,.,.-
P________8~',-..#',-',";,..P
E_______#'',-',";8_',-',";.E
N_____8=',-',";.+#+',-',";.N
I____#=',-',";,._8',-',";,.I
S___#=',-',";,..(#',-',";.8S
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P_8(',-',MOTHER";#',-',-s8_P
E_#z',-',LOVES,";8',-..s#__E
N_8_.,#',"YOU',";~#,..88___N
I_#.##',-DEARLY,";~8,.8#___I
S_8##',-+~'',-',-~#'8______S
-_#.,..-',-',";.'=8#_______-
P_.8+_',-',";,.'88_________P
E___888',-',";~8___________E
N______8#888#88____________N
I__________________________I
S____.oO TrollKore Oo._____S
-_At the head of the game._-
P__________________________P
E___irc.freedomirc.net_____E
N_______#trollkore_________N
I__________________________I
S__________________________S
-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-

All you cock-loving fuckers out there, here is a special treat for you bastards, take a look at this knob. NOW SUCK IT, MOTHERFUCKERS!

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Is it just me? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849809)

Is it just me or does that perl code look like a giant penis?

*All* perl code looks like dick (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849836)

Programers are queer like that.

Whatever Happened to the Troll Library? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849827)

And whatever happened to the .NET application that was going to randomly post selections from the Library?

Are the good ole days gone?

Re:Whatever Happened to the Troll Library? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849868)

The super censor stalins in the slashdot central commitee banned it.

early post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849741)

early Post for Sean B. AMus.....and Fozy

Bark Bark

promises (5, Funny)

Joehonkie (665142) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849742)

When I saw "Vowed appeal" I was expecting to see "Vowed REVENGE!"

())=====D (-1)

WeenisMonster (664473) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849783)

A fat knob for you today!

If you like it, please have another!*



* And eat your own poop.

8===D 0; (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849920)

Yeah suck it bitch!

Re:promises (2, Insightful)

Goldberg's Pants (139800) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849904)

They will appeal and appeal and appeal until they can buy the right judge, then they'll win.

This is a glitch at best for the RIAA.

Find it funny that Rosen is being bought in to write the intellectual property laws in the "new" Iraq. (Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...)

Re:promises (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5850472)

Raise your hand if you have the foggiest idea of how the American judicial system works.

Woops. Not so fast, there, Goldberg's Pants.

Re:promises (1)

Goldberg's Pants (139800) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850651)

They can appeal, and if that fails, they can no doubt take it to a higher court etc... THAT was what I meant.

And I know full well how the American judicial system works. In 99% of cases, the party with the most money, and therefore the best lawyers wins.

FP! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849744)

First Post!

I would like to be the first to point out (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849879)

You are teh lose!

You fail it, baby!

You suck!

ya know (1, Funny)

B3ryllium (571199) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849748)

I think Grok is a frog. It sounds like a good name for a frog.

Grok! Grok!

Re:ya know (0, Informative)

Surak (18578) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849800)

No, that would be grunk-grok [rr.com] , not grok-grok. :-P

Re:ya know (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849859)

+3 informative? It's good to see the moderators are still on crack!

grok (5, Informative)

pipingguy (566974) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850001)

grok /grok/, var. /grohk/ vt. [from the novel "Stranger in a Strange Land", by Robert A. Heinlein, where it is a Martian word meaning literally `to drink' and metaphorically `to be one with'] The emphatic form is `grok in fullness'. 1. To understand, usually in a global sense. Connotes intimate and exhaustive knowledge. Contrast zen, which is similar supernal understanding experienced as a single brief flash. See also glark. 2. Used of programs, may connote merely sufficient understanding. "Almost all C compilers grok the void type these days."

http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/g/grok.html

Congrats! (1, Insightful)

Blaine Hilton (626259) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849749)

I for one would like to say congratulations. However I'm afraid more of these suits are going to be occurring as time goes on.

Its good to hear some good news on the news at least sometimes.

Go calculate [webcalc.net] something

Re:Congrats! (-1, Troll)

Doomrat (615771) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849855)

Why can't I read a single topic without getting "Go to WebCalc!" shoved in my face like a herpes infested penis?

Furthermore: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849896)

And furthermore, why should I trust the calculations of someone stupid enough to actually PAY for slashdot?

Re:Congrats! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5850054)

cos some shit head does not know the diffrence between a sig and content.

Re:Congrats! (0, Flamebait)

Doomrat (615771) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850262)

You can abuse me when you learn how to type a sentence properly.

He has 'casually' mentioned his site in various topics. The sig is just the icing on the cake.

MOD PARENT UP!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849886)

My god! That is the most insightful comment I have ever read. Mod this guy up!!! He cetainly deserves it!

last post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849758)



no more posts, ok thx

Grokster and stockholders. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849761)

Grokster could have an affect on satellite radio. In some ways it is in direct competition, particularly as wireless becomes more in vogue.

I have an Alpine CDA-7878 and an Alpine XM unit and a Panasonic Sirius unit, both with Terk antennas. The Alpine unit was connected to the head unit via an AiNet cable and the Sirius unit was connected with an auxiliary RCA adapter available from Alpine (KCA-121B). I had XM since it debuted and Sirius for a few months in the Pacific Northwest.

The bottom line, for those needing a quick answer, is Sirius is superior in sound quality, features(free streaming from their website!), and channel quality(better music, no commercials, better talk). XM has a few more channels that make very little difference to the end result (read on).

After careful review of both systems, Sirius came out the winnner, as I have said. The channels are laid out well, lack commercials, sound great, and are streamed on the internet. The only disadvantage of Sirius was its oft-sited lack of Nascar, which they seem to be trying to remedy. Also, XM has an extra comedy channel (it's boring, and features older, censored comedy), and a few more "experimental" music channels which most will find totally useless. Surfing XM for music is often like surfing the regular (terrestrial) radio in a large city-you get nothing but frustration. It's no wonder XM doesn't stream live on the net so that you can try before you buy. Also, XM's channel layout was unfriendly, in my opinion.

Re:Grokster and stockholders. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849999)

Okay...I read the article, and I don't get how what you wrote is related. Nothing in the press release nor the interview mentions anything about satellite radio or distribution methods.

Are you saying that someone could consider making a head-end that latches on to an open WiFi Access Point, connects to Grokster, and plays a music stream while in range? Exactly how long do you think that you'd be in range of these APs? Assuming you're travelling in suburbia, probably long enough to hear *one* song at most. You can extend wireless range, but the larger the range, the more directed the signal needs to be, and a car is not going to make for a very good receiver for a WiFi transmitter.

I agree wholeheartedly (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5850075)

I've been analyzing the situation for some time now myself. I've come to the conclusion that what's good for the stockholders is not necessarily what's good for the company.

Which is why I think that AMD might really beat Intel after all. I've used Intel processors in the past, because they were available in my area before Athlons. However having tried both I really prefer to stick with AMD at this point.

In other words, what the fuck did your comment have to do with Grokster??

User reviews are thataway -----> (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5850097)

Wrong topic, buddy.

Re:Grokster and stockholders. (1)

mark_lybarger (199098) | more than 11 years ago | (#5851335)

you're sirius seems to require a browser Windows Media Player plug in to function properly. that's not really considered free streaming in these here parts. i'll stick with my shoutcast streams, thanks!.

and of course, this has absolutely nothing to do with the grokster interview or their "victory" in court. there, offtopic, redundant, and slightly informative.

MADonna's message to the judge: (2, Funny)

_Sambo (153114) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849767)

"What the Fsck do you think you are doing!?"

HA! HA!

Re:MADonna's message to the judge: (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849894)

hehe, madonna's twat smells like a herd of sewer rats.

Congrats! (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849774)

I'm gonna go grok somebody to celibrate.

apple music (3, Insightful)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849787)

given that the labels are starting to play smart like the apple music service, i dont see this as lasting very long. expect a court to squash this decision soon.
face it people, the best justification for free mp3 sharing was that there was no alternative. people said they would pay if they could.. if it was reasonable.. well no it is and you can.
I expect the MPAA and RIAA to win this one

Re:apple music (1)

benna (614220) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849858)

I have no money so unless its free its not reasonable.

Re:apple music (1)

RLiegh (247921) | more than 11 years ago | (#5851291)

No money, no honey.
Just because you're broke, doesn't make piracy reasonable.

Re:apple music (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849893)

They may win, but it will be due having to deeper pockets. The courts didn't decide Grokster was legal by considering the lack of alternative services so Apple's start-up is irrelevant.

Re:apple music (3, Informative)

m1a1 (622864) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849990)

face it people, the best justification for free mp3 sharing was that there was no alternative. people said they would pay if they could.. if it was reasonable.. well no it is and you can. Wow, you apparently haven't paid the slightest bit of attention to what the ruling is about. The point of the ruling is that there are legitimate uses to Grokster. You point out that there was no other way to download music but that has no legal bearing. The only way for me to rob the bank vault is to go inside and take the money out, that doesn't make it legal.

This judge is saying that Grokster has uses that don't infringe and it isn't the software makers responsibility to ensure that it is used legally. I agree with this. Imagine if everyone who has been hacked from an MS box could sue Microsoft. What if everyone who was hacked from a Linux box could sue Linus or the distro maker of the offending box? It would be ridiculous.

I am not trying to be harsh, but curb your ignorance please. Understand what the case is about and understand how appeals work. Then comment. Until you are educated you just sound like what you are: ignorant.

Re:apple music (2, Interesting)

Planesdragon (210349) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850036)

This judge is saying that Grokster has uses that don't infringe and it isn't the software makers responsibility to ensure that it is used legally. I agree with this. Imagine if everyone who has been hacked from an MS box could sue Microsoft. What if everyone who was hacked from a Linux box could sue Linus or the distro maker of the offending box? It would be ridiculous.

Yeah, what if the hackers who write exploits for script-kiddies could be prosecuted... er...

P2P systems and OSes are different animals--about as different as you can get when it comes to current-market software. Yes, there are some good uses to P2P--but the vast majority of their use is for copyright infringement. A reasonable case could be made for baning them because of this, and a reasonable case could be made for leaving them legal despite this.

Personally, I'm betting we'll have either a FCC or a Title 17 (copyright law) amendment to deal specifically with makers and users of P2P software. At least, we SHOULD have one, to decide where these buggers fall in the spectrum of legal software.

Re:apple music (1)

budgenator (254554) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850205)

how about people like me, I got a bunch of vintage vinyl, shouldn't it be legal for me to download mp3 of the music I own the right to listen to as a working copy, and keep the vinyl for archival purposes? A file sharer has noway to know if my copying an mp3 to my computer is legal or not. I agree that the majority of file sharing is illegal, but I resent any organisaztion assuming that I'm a criminal because of some software logging on to a service. If what I'm doing is ileagal prove it, what ever happened to presumption of innocense?

From what I understand, all grokster does is point participants toward each other; what they negotiate between themselves is between themselves. An analogy would be suing the telephone company, because two parties conspired on the phone to break the law and injured a third party.

I do download music that the owners have given permission to the public to both download and share on p2p networks, and I'm going to do just that, if only to spite the RIAA.

Re:apple music (4, Insightful)

ninewands (105734) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850407)

Quoth the poster:
A file sharer has noway to know if my copying an mp3 to my computer is legal or not.

Incorrect, grasshopper ... the "piracy" does not occur when you download a file you have no legal right to possess ... the "piracy" occurs when the "file-sharer" serves the file out to the 'net. The act of infringement is complete when the file is offered because the right that is infringed is the right to distribute the work.

Understand this and understand it well. It is NOT illegal to download a file from a P2P network. It MAY be illegal for you to possess the file if it is a copyrighted work that you have no other legal basis for owning. If you have a paid-for CD that includes the track in question, you have done nothing wrong by DLing a copy from the 'net for your personal use, although it would be a little more sanitary, from a legal perspective, if you had ripped and encoded that mp3 yourself. It is NOT illegal to "Rip, Mix & Burn" ((C)Apple Computer, 2002) for your OWN use! It IS illegal for you to serve out files over a P2P network and it IS illegal for you to "Rip, Mix & Burn" ((C)Apple Computer, 2002) and give the CD-R to someone else, because you are DISTRIBUTING the work in violation of the copyright.

Re:apple music (2, Interesting)

Zemran (3101) | more than 11 years ago | (#5851186)

The act of infringement is complete when the file is offered because the right that is infringed is the right to distribute the work.


offered != distribute ...

distribution has not completed until the file is on the receipients machine.

Re:apple music (2, Insightful)

dcw3 (649211) | more than 11 years ago | (#5851215)

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I have an mp3 in a directory that happens to be *available*, and someone decides to download it, I didn't distribute anything...the other person took it. If I rip my CD collection to that directory, am I distributing it???...No! The fact that it's the same directory I use for other P2P stuff, shouldn't matter.

One question for anyone who knows the rules...if I own the CDs, and rip the songs I like to make my own favorite songs CDs, am I in technical violation of the copyright since I purchased the music?

Re:apple music (1)

Planesdragon (210349) | more than 11 years ago | (#5851590)

No, you distributed it.

If you had your computer setup to launch a massive DDOS attack against a computer that pinged you, you'd still be the one launching the attack.

And as for ripping the songs from the CD you bought legally--that's totattly legal "media shifting", and it's considered Fair Use. Give those copies to anyone else, though, and you've committeed copyright infringement.

The common argument at this point is "well, if he has the CD, it's OK." Which is sort of like saying "If you rob a credit union for $12,375 dollars, and then make an anonymous donation of $12,375 dollars you haven't committed a crime."

Re:apple music (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5851547)

"Rip,Mix & Burn"

Am i the only one taken back to the drug use

scenes of "Requiem for a Dream" by that :-)

Re:apple music (1)

TheJOsh!(tm) (584211) | more than 11 years ago | (#5851569)

ok, this might seem a bit off-topic, but the parent comment started me thinking...

doesn't this ruling go against precedents set in past lawsuits concerning other industries? I seem to remember a class-action some time back against gunmakers, claiming that they *were* in fact responsible for the IRresponsible use of their products. I could be entirely wrong, but I was under the impression that the court's ruling was unfavorable to the likes of Smith & Wesson...

why are gun manufacturers responsible for the way their products are used by the public if software manufactures aren't?>/p>

responders please, be kind. it's my first post...

Re:apple music (2, Insightful)

Smegoid (585137) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850071)

Reasonable is stretching it. The thing about some p2p apps, and soulseek in particular, is they're community and occasionally genre orientated. And for someone into any kind of non commercial music -in my case minimal techno and IDM but the argument could be made for indie punk, shoegazer, all female banjoe and kazoo bands, whatever; Apple music or any of it's soon to crop up brethren are not going to stock the kinds of music I want to listen to. Ever. It's extended top 40's for the college crowd with oodles of nostalgia rock. I'd be willing to pay, but the labels I enjoy don't have the infrastructure, the funds and let's face it, they don't have the market share to make it worth their while. Still I wouldn't be suprised if smaller labels set something similar up on their own, perphaps a distributor like Distribution Fusion in Canada or Force in Europe will do it for all the small labels. But certainly not Apple Music, MSN Muzak nor Warner's Musical Shiznitzes.

Re:apple music (1)

NeoChichiri (562667) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850296)

Not necessarily...I'm not so sure that the RIAA will continue to send lawsuits against the people that run the P2P systems like KaZaA/Grokster, unless of course they manage to buy a judge or 2...or 3. What they may do however, is start going after the people who are downloading, particularly those who are sharing files and acting as the Super Nodes. They are already snooping around in IRC...even though what they are doing is technically illegal, noone is going to fight them because they have much more money than any normal individual.

*ster names (5, Funny)

DaLiNKz (557579) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849811)

Maybe Napster should come back and sue all these *ster names. Its like everywhere I go there is something.. for an example roogl--err i mean, feedster [feedster.com] . What has happen to creativity..

Re:*ster names (1)

benna (614220) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849877)

yeah and dotster...

Re:*ster names (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849919)

I thought you said FEDster, not feedster. The only P2P service endorsed by John Ashcroft and the rest of the DOJ, CIA, FBI, etc.

"RIAA vows appeal" (-1, Redundant)

Metallic Matty (579124) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849814)

Those vengeful bastards!

Can't we all just get along and swap songs?

Interesting... (5, Insightful)

Sheetrock (152993) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849820)

I kind of like the idea (mentioned in the first link) of blanket compulsory licensing for Internet media. It sounds like something that could open up new markets in content delivery while ensuring that the artists get paid, which is a win-win, while allowing both the industry and music listeners to benefit from a wider selection of music to pick from and instantaneously purchase.

But I figure this will end up like the MPAA vs. VCR. Fight the technology tooth and nail until you realize it's another way of getting fistfuls of cash shoved in your general direction.

Re:Interesting... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849922)

thing is the industry doesn't want a wider selection of music. they'd much rather throw money at a few big acts they can push and promote, and who are going to make them oodles of cash. spreading that same money to lots of smaller acts and hoping a few of them make an impact is risky. i had actually hoped that mp3's were going to change the industry, in that the most popular acts wouldn't generate as much cashflow, and would therefore make it more appealing to push lots of different acts, who would (as i hoped at the time) rely on touring to make money instead of selling albums. i don't wonder why the industry is clinging so tightly to the "good old days", but what i don't get is why they aren't capitalizing on new technology (as you suggested) instead of fighting it, and possibly making themselves irrelevant as far as distribution goes. just some ponderings...

Re:Interesting... (3, Insightful)

eddie can read (631836) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850236)

Not sure what you mean by "blanket compulsory licensing for Internet media", but if you mean everyone who uses the Internet pays into a common fund, and then this fund somehow gets distributed among content producers, that won't be a market arrangement, so it can't "open up new markets". A market arrangement requires independent buyers and independent sellers, and it requires that every participant has the choice to buy or sell to a particular other participant, or not. What you're describing is an Internet tax, fees pooled into some common pool administered by some central decisionmaking body, and a dole distributed by this body - essentially welfare.

what it means (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5851394)

If you're approached for licensing your property, you must agree at a preapproved price. Just like radio stations have to be permitted to play your music, but they have to pay.

This ability to refuse business is unique to the entertainment biz. Ever go into a store and have someone say this isn't for sale to you? Didn't think so.
The mandatory licensing is in return for your access to the court system.

Re:Interesting... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5851593)

But......

People who buy blank audio CDs in the US are paying into a fund that is supposed to be distributed to the artists. But the money never gets paid out, it's kept by the labels. You've heard this before.

The idea of paying the labels more money so the artists get paid more money is just naive.

The next step is for the RIAA to start suing users (5, Interesting)

Jerk City Troll (661616) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849846)

And it appears with their recent activity (which compromises a trial) they are going to start this on a larger scale.

I apologize for sounding selfish and I hope those who will bear the brunt of these lawsuits will forgive me. I must say that this is indeed a good thing. There will be an initial sacrifice on the part of The People in this case, but the long term result will be positive.

This eliminates the single point of failure we've seen with Napster. If these guys are forced to go after the users, it will take them a lot longer to accomplish their goals. Instead of taking a sledge hammer to a P2P network, they will be forced to chizel away, one scrape at a time. But there's still more.

The RIAA/MPAA/IP-Obsessed-Co. will spend bundles of money on these lawsuits. It is not cheap if you're the plaintiff. This increase in their costs will cause them to raise the prices of their product. Consumers will note this increase and more will resort to piracy. It's a feedback loop.

On top of that, the more frivilous lawsuits they engage in, the less favor they will hold with the courts. Like it or not, a judge's decision is influenced by his personal feelings. If you piss off the judge, expect him less likely to rule in your favor unless the letter of the law absolutely dictates it. Otherwise, many things are up to her interpretation. The more of a fuss the RI/MPAA make, they will be perceived more and more as a nuisance.

Of course, I could be totally wrong on this. ;-)

That is why... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5850032)

...people should be donating [freenetproject.org] to Freenet [freenetproject.org] right now - it is the only P2P application that provides protection for its users.

Re:That is why... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5850505)

Freenet is only useful for criminals. There's absolutely no other reason for its existence.

Freenet needs to die a quick and painless death.

Re:That is why... (1)

Frizzle Fry (149026) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850834)

I've used freenet and belive me, there's nothing quick or painless about it.

Re:The next step is for the RIAA to start suing us (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5850059)

I predict that filing lawsuits against individuals will:

1. Not significantly increase music sales or reduce the number of people violating copyright law, their primary goals
2. Make customers think the record companies are greedier than ever, make customers hate them even more than they already do, and possibly cause even more people to stop buying music and start downloading from P2P networks or copying their friends' music
3. Drive file trading underground to private networks that will be much harder to detect and stop
4. Accelerate the death of the big labels and music store chains which will end with their music being sold off to the highest bidders, hopefully to companies that are smarter and more consumer-friendly

Re:The next step is for the RIAA to start suing us (2, Interesting)

letxa2000 (215841) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850501)

4. Accelerate the death of the big labels and music store chains which will end with their music being sold off to the highest bidders, hopefully to companies that are smarter and more consumer-friendly

Actually, I hope the rights are just GIVEN back to their rightful owners: the artists that made them!

Do that and the RIAA, ASCAP, MPAA will unite (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5850220)

Or I could be wrong.

Re:The next step is for the RIAA to start suing us (4, Informative)

Blue Stone (582566) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850395)

Maybe the RIAA et al, will start to listen to the people.

AOL [yes I use AOL, bite my shiny white arse] has a survey it's users can participate in, on it's internal homepage thing.
Here are the questions and results, as of just now:

Do you think online music trading is wrong?

84% No, it's the CD prices that should be illegal - 204,896
16% Yes, stealing is illegal, period - 39,978

Total votes: 244,874

What would most effectively curb music piracy?

54% Lower CD prices - 135,991
33% Nothing, it's too late - 82,687
6% Better pay services - 15,809
6% Threat of prosecution - 15,411

Total votes: 249,898

You'd think someone at AOL-TW would take note of this, since they're the ones asking.
(As well as which of their members voted for what and may require "further investigation" as a result.)

Re:The next step is for the RIAA to start suing us (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5850539)

That's got to be the stupidest poll ever conducted. Let's set aside for a moment the whole issue of who participates in a poll like this and just look at the questions themselves. That's just absurd.

This poll isn't worth the paper its printed on.

Re:The next step is for the RIAA to start suing us (1)

jez9999 (618189) | more than 11 years ago | (#5851532)

Seems like quite reasonable questions and responses to me, actually.

This poll isn't worth the paper its printed on.

Maybe that's beacuse this poll isn't printed on paper? (or was that an attempt at a joke?)

Re:The next step is for the RIAA to start suing us (1)

ninewands (105734) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850775)

and you have a problem with this?

The fact is that the RNA / MPAA exists to 1) ensure that artisits are in the position to be butt-f$cked

'Ray! Score one for the little guy. (4, Funny)

philovivero (321158) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849902)

I can tell the RIAA is on the side of the little guy. They're going out there and suing the tar out of those evil P2P guys.

'Cuz no little guy would ever use P2P to promote their art.

Not me, [homeip.net] not Anything Box, [anythingbox.com] and certainly not any other artist truly making new and original art. See... without the RIAA, nothing would ever get created. This is the true artistic genius of the world: Hillary Rosen and her copyright-legislation-writing hands.

I'm happy ... (2, Interesting)

olegm (233286) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849911)

... to see a bully (RIAA) to get handed a defeat. While it is terrorizing College students @ MIT threatening them with multibillion dollar lawsuits, I am glad to see it lose a court case that it might have had a chance at winning (even morally).

Secondary to that I am also happy to see my favorite networks stay alive and running.

Great! (-1, Redundant)

Alan Holman (607935) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849923)

My opinion about the court-win being great for all us benefitters from P2P services is below everyone's threshold; thus my opinion doesn't matter, but my opinion is that this is great news!

The court is wrong (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849979)

This ruling goes against the spirit of the DMCA, NET act, and other laws which where enacted to curtail illegal activities. Unregulated "P2P" is used primarily for criminal purposes and needs to be promptly outlawed.

The government needs to send a strong message to college students and kids who use these criminal tools. They need to do hard time in prison for at least ten years for posessing these criminal enabling tools.

The same reasoning holds true for banning guns. The government has the job of governing as it sees fit and the people who are governed have no right to resist. If they do then they are criminals and terrorists. This is why Waco, TX and Ruby Ridge are justifiable and morally proper.

More laws and greater police powers are needed immediately.

As I posted in another thread on the RIAA (-1, Flamebait)

GregoryD (646395) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849980)

tick tick tick tick tick tick... Your days are numbered.

Re:As I posted in another thread on the RIAA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5850131)

Should've told them "mene mene tekel [u]parsin" instead, but I guess no one will get that joke :)

Roughly translated, it means "measured, measured, weighed [and] wanting." Let's just say they should read the handwriting on the wall ;)

Re:As I posted in another thread on the RIAA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5850518)

No one around HERE would get that joke. Slashdot is full of anti-religion nutcases.

Re:As I posted in another thread on the RIAA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5850723)

+4 insightful?!? how is this insightful?

RIAA and Artists (5, Insightful)

baertooth (660570) | more than 11 years ago | (#5849986)

The RIAA should focus their attention on concerts and other activities where they present their artists. The recording industry is going to dimish much much more before it stabilizes. There's too much opprotunity for people and hackers to circumvent what ever technology they throw at us. But if they concentrated on doing very well done public events, they could smash whatever level of income they made before with records. As it is now, concerts are no where near the potential they hold. And wouldn't it be nice of them to release onto P2P networks songs so they could advertise their artist in the public forum? Even if they release 96kps ripped songs, I think it would do more to spread their coverage than it is to attack the networks. The last time I was on Kazaa, there were 4.4 million people on! That kind of potential audience can only be rivalled by television (and soon it will even eclipse that). All they have done is hurt their image time and time again. I have NO sympathy for them at all. Fat Cats looking to become fatter.

Re:RIAA and Artists (1)

jez9999 (618189) | more than 11 years ago | (#5851636)

You can't replace recordings with live performances! Frankly, I think live performances suck. The quality is terrible, artists have usually lost their voice through the 1001 tours they've done before they get to your little town. And what's the point, really? You get to see/hear the artist in person? Through a loudspeaker? Half a mile away? I've *always* preferred the proper recording of a song to a live permformance, and whilst some people disagree with me, you can never substitute one with the other. They're totally different.

WTF is wrong with American Idol? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5849996)

Trenyce sucks, YES, and definitely, she had to go, but what's up with all you brainwashed morons giving that feebleminded putz Josh Gracin a free ride into the finals?

My god in goddam heaven, the only reason that fat-ass off-key smarmy little bastard wasn't voted off eight episodes ago is because he's Mister America, Rah Rah, Go Marines. Gimme a break. If you morons would stop sucking off the goddamn flag long enough to open your twinkly all-american eyes, you'd see that this guy SUCKS. And THAT, dear patriots, is what America is all about. Only the best are supposed to rise to the top in this system, but you are all so stupid that you are letting your emotions get the better of you, thereby ruining the effectiveness of the very system you claim to serve.

You're proving my theory that all Americans except me are retards. I should have moved to Panama a long time ago. Sure they don't have fresh water, since the US Military blew up their central water plant thinking it was a drug-lords hideout, and they don't have enough money to build another, but at least I won't get beat down and sent to Guantanamo Bay Prison Camp for wearing the wrong color shirt to work, like Mike Hawash of Intel.

Re:WTF is wrong with American Idol? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5851647)

You're 100% right. Josh really does suck. The same stupid people who think we're invading the Middle East to free their women from the disgrace of wearing Burkhas are the same stupid people who vote for Josh. Inbred rednecks are taking over. We're ruled by idiots - Idiot President for an Idiot Nation. Fitting.

Arg my submission isn't gonna get through... (-1, Offtopic)

xid (621885) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850000)

OT but great nonetheless... OpenBSD 3.3 just officially released... available via ftp-openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/3.3/ Lotsa great new features... check it out!

article text, before it gets /.ed (0, Redundant)

Count of Montecristo (626894) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850003)

Interview With the President of Grokster

By Ciarán Tannam 4/30/03

Last week marked an historic step in the record industries battle against P2P with the summary judgement issued by Judge Wilson in favour of Grokster Ltd and Streamcast Networks. Slyck has spoken exclusively to Wayne Rosso the outspoken President of Grokster Ltd about the summary judgement and other issues...

The iRiver iFP-195T is a 512MB Flash unit and is available on Amazon

Slyck Ciarán: Firstly, tell us your reaction to the extremely important summary judgement.

Grokster: We at Grokster are obviously very happy with the Judge's decision. The Court recognized that our file-sharing software has numerous legal and beneficial uses. This opinion lifts the cloud the plaintiffs have attempted to cast over innovation and investment. It makes clear that innovators will not be held liable for creating or investing in new technologies. This ruling also means that the labels and studios cannot ban 21st-century technology in defence of their inefficient and outmoded 20th-century distribution models

Slyck Ciarán: What is the next step in the lawsuit for you?

Grokster: The plaintiffs have commented publicly that they intended to appeal the ruling, so we assume they will and we will, of course, fight the appeal.

Slyck Ciarán: Janus Friis recently told Slyck that "Grokster is an older customized version of KMD/FT" and that older versions "supernode server to fetch seed IP addresses when not available locally". The verdict seemed to clear Gokster Ltd of operating any supernode server. Can you categorically say that Grokster does not need a supernode server and if not how does it fetch the location of supernodes when not availably locally?

Grokster: Grokster does not operate a Supernode server or a server with IP addresses or any type of server that interfaces in any way with the operation of Grokster or FastTrack with the exception of ad serving via the Start page. Grokster does not need a Supernode server to operate.

Slyck Ciarán: A side note in the summary judgement said that Sharman/Kazaa BV operates one such superode server/root supernode. Do you believe this statement to be accurate?

Grokster: We have no information as to whether they do or do not.

Slyck Ciarán: What is your understanding of how Morpheus was removed from the FastTrack network. Could the same not be done to Grokster?

Grokster: Some time after this occurred we found out that Kazaa and Grokster were issued upgrades to the communication encryption protocols and Morpheus was not, so the Morpheus clients could no longer communicate with the other programs

Slyck Ciarán: How is your relationship with those who own the FastTrack protocol. Why have they not supplied you with updates to the FT software in recent months? Were they annoyed by your postings of "we do not have an brilliant digital software" on your homepage as they have a direct interest in Altnet.

Grokster: fine (!)

Slyck Ciarán: A lot was made in the media about you speech at the Financial Times new media conference recently. You used the opportunity to attack the recoding industry for not licensing their music to P2P companies like yourself. Tell us more about why you think they should licence music to Grokster?

Grokster: It's not so much that they should license to Grokster, it's more a call for blanket compulsory licensing of some kind. At the moment content licensing negotiations are a one-way street. And what has happened is that record companies have used their content to slow the growth of ecommerce and the Internet until they can figure out how to co-opt the technology. Simply put, they want to own or control the technology themselves.

Slyck Ciarán: Anything else you would like to say to Slyck readers?

Grokster: Yes. Thanks for your support during this long court battle and we hope that you continue to use Grokster. I've gotten many emails from Grokster users congratulating us on our victory and I'd like to thank them as well. You're all terrific!

Slyck would like to thank Wayne Rosso for taking time out to do this interview.

Ciarán and Tom from Slyck.com are regular contributers to MP3 Newswire. Their insights on other digital music issues can be read on his site and we encourage you to check it out.

article text, before /. gets /.ed (-1, Redundant)

Shilaeli (662153) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850120)

Interview With the President of Grokster

By Ciarán Tannam 4/30/03

Last week marked an historic step in the record industries battle against P2P with the summary judgement issued by Judge Wilson in favour of Grokster Ltd and Streamcast Networks. Slyck has spoken exclusively to Wayne Rosso the outspoken President of Grokster Ltd about the summary judgement and other issues...

The iRiver iFP-195T is a 512MB Flash unit and is available on Amazon

Slyck Ciarán: Firstly, tell us your reaction to the extremely important summary judgement.

Grokster: We at Grokster are obviously very happy with the Judge's decision. The Court recognized that our file-sharing software has numerous legal and beneficial uses. This opinion lifts the cloud the plaintiffs have attempted to cast over innovation and investment. It makes clear that innovators will not be held liable for creating or investing in new technologies. This ruling also means that the labels and studios cannot ban 21st-century technology in defence of their inefficient and outmoded 20th-century distribution models

Slyck Ciarán: What is the next step in the lawsuit for you?

Grokster: The plaintiffs have commented publicly that they intended to appeal the ruling, so we assume they will and we will, of course, fight the appeal.

Slyck Ciarán: Janus Friis recently told Slyck that "Grokster is an older customized version of KMD/FT" and that older versions "supernode server to fetch seed IP addresses when not available locally". The verdict seemed to clear Gokster Ltd of operating any supernode server. Can you categorically say that Grokster does not need a supernode server and if not how does it fetch the location of supernodes when not availably locally?

Grokster: Grokster does not operate a Supernode server or a server with IP addresses or any type of server that interfaces in any way with the operation of Grokster or FastTrack with the exception of ad serving via the Start page. Grokster does not need a Supernode server to operate.

Slyck Ciarán: A side note in the summary judgement said that Sharman/Kazaa BV operates one such superode server/root supernode. Do you believe this statement to be accurate?

Grokster: We have no information as to whether they do or do not.

Slyck Ciarán: What is your understanding of how Morpheus was removed from the FastTrack network. Could the same not be done to Grokster?

Grokster: Some time after this occurred we found out that Kazaa and Grokster were issued upgrades to the communication encryption protocols and Morpheus was not, so the Morpheus clients could no longer communicate with the other programs

Slyck Ciarán: How is your relationship with those who own the FastTrack protocol. Why have they not supplied you with updates to the FT software in recent months? Were they annoyed by your postings of "we do not have an brilliant digital software" on your homepage as they have a direct interest in Altnet.

Grokster: fine (!)

Slyck Ciarán: A lot was made in the media about you speech at the Financial Times new media conference recently. You used the opportunity to attack the recoding industry for not licensing their music to P2P companies like yourself. Tell us more about why you think they should licence music to Grokster?

Grokster: It's not so much that they should license to Grokster, it's more a call for blanket compulsory licensing of some kind. At the moment content licensing negotiations are a one-way street. And what has happened is that record companies have used their content to slow the growth of ecommerce and the Internet until they can figure out how to co-opt the technology. Simply put, they want to own or control the technology themselves.

Slyck Ciarán: Anything else you would like to say to Slyck readers?

Grokster: Yes. Thanks for your support during this long court battle and we hope that you continue to use Grokster. I've gotten many emails from Grokster users congratulating us on our victory and I'd like to thank them as well. You're all terrific!

Slyck would like to thank Wayne Rosso for taking time out to do this interview.

And somewhere in the background... (2, Funny)

aerojad (594561) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850065)

The collective P2P community is letting out a silent, but very noticable "neer, neer!" to the RIAA.

The RIAA has started a new tact: Targeting users! (2, Interesting)

Newer Guy (520108) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850222)

This weekend, the RIAA began using the IM feature of most p2p clients to mass instant message users and threaten individual lawsuits. It seems to me that this is a violation of the programs' Terms of Service (most say that their services are for noncommercial use only). I wonder if the p2p companies can sue the RIAA for this?

In otin ihuan in tonáltin nican tzonquíca. (4, Interesting)

rice_burners_suck (243660) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850288)

Hoisting glasses, huh? It's just like that scene in the Fifth Element, right after Bruce Willis gets the stones and calls the president to tell him... Two seconds later, everyone is hoisting glasses and popping open bottles of champaigne when someone turns around from his console and says, "Mr. President?"

The president says, "Yes, now what?"

Oh, just the small detail that the evil entity hasn't been defeated yet and is now heading straight for Earth at a somewhat excessive speed. And you know what? I think the EVIL in that movie symbolized the RIAA. The Fifth Element symbolized freedom. And the whole This is a police alert; Put your hands in the yellow circles. thing symbolized the way WE are gonna live if things don't change... in apartments that look like some Industrial Zone in Doom II, with yellow circles and KEEP CLEAR painted on your wall, and police will look inside your apartment anytime they want and snatch you away in a body bag if someone so much as accuses you of a crime. Only in our REAL future, there won't be any Fifth Element to come along and rescue us. That's how things will be if organizations like the RIAA have their way. See my other posts about sheep, et cetera. It's just like the title of my post says...

Re:In otin ihuan in tonáltin nican tzonquíca. (1)

Anthony Boyd (242971) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850703)

It's just like the title of my post says...

Livin' La Vida Loca? In a gadda da vita? WTF does it mean?

Re:In otin ihuan in tonáltin nican tzonquíca. (3, Informative)

rice_burners_suck (243660) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850837)

It is Nahuatl, the Aztec language. The story goes that the Mexicas (the Aztecs), were one of the greatest empires and had built the most beautiful and technologically advanced city at the time: Tenochtitlán, now called Mexico City, or more simply, México. Their victories were based on skills in war and politics and their greatness was based on architecture and technology, which included tunnels, bridges and canals for transporting water. During the last forty years of their reign (let's throw the figure of 1480 to 1520 d.C.), their luck began to run out as they suffered great defeats by other groups, like the Taracans. The situation only became worse when Hernán Cortez arrived. Cortez liked the beauty he saw in Tenochtitlán and wanted to place it under his control. The Mexicas' broken situation made them especially vulnerable and their great reign had come to an end. Thus: In otin ihuan in tonáltin nican tzonquíca. Which means: Here end the roads and the days.

Its long history (along with the pyramids, volcanoes and other nice things relatively closeby) is one of the reasons that D.F. is so full of character.

(To answer your 'vida loca' comment, Nahuatl is so different from Spanish and yet we seem to have inherited so many words from it that I often wonder what they used to speak in Spain before the 1500s.)

ahh.. i see (2, Insightful)

dwgranth (578126) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850386)

that last line "vowed appeal" mustve gotten someone mad enough to hack their website [riaa.org] but wait... i think this has been happening [theregister.co.uk] already

It seems to me... (3, Insightful)

eniu!uine (317250) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850493)

that the fundamental problem with the recording industry is that they don't serve a purpose in the internet era(this being a few years ahead since most people still hear new music on the radio). Their other major problem is that they are trying to collect money from artists works without paying the artists. They have to walk a fine line between wooing the artists and stealing their work while wooing the fans and stealing their money. You know a business model isn't really solid when the sellers have to use the courts to collect their money. Nobody needs to legislate toilet paper(follow obligator links to toilet paper cases)

Sales Figures and the RIAA (3, Interesting)

telstar (236404) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850562)

Great news on this recent verdict. What I'm wondering is when users all stop buying CDs and switch over to the Apple Music Store, will the RIAA still try to claim that CD sales are down due to illegal music sharing?

a brief observation (1)

DarthWiggle (537589) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850682)

Declaring file-sharing programs illegal because they are used to share unlicensed MP3s is, in effect, equivalent to making camcorders illegal because they can be used to shoot videos of terrorist targets. *sigh* apologies for the melodrama.

The burden on the Apellant (5, Interesting)

ninewands (105734) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850756)

Quote:
Now that the Morpheus/Grokster trial is over ...

Let's get ONE thing perfectly straight here ... there WAS no trial! Grokster won it's case on a Motion for Summary Judgment. Basically, the court looked at the evidence submitted by the parties (who BOTH moved for summary judgment) and said "there are NO material facts in dispute, the only questions to be decided are questions of law, therefore, I can decide this suit WITHOUT a trial.

Why is this distinction important, you ask? The lawsuit was in FEDERAL court. The federal courts of appeal in the US are VERY deferential to the District Courts in deciding whether a summary judgment was the proper way to dispose of a case. The Court of Appeals will start from a presumption that the judge was RIGHT and the burden will be on the RIAA to prove that the judge was wrong on the LAW he followed in deciding the case. The burden is on the RIAA to show that the judge's decision was "arbitrary, capricious and contrary to the rule of law." This is an EXTREMELY heavy burden on an appellant, especially since the district judge's "Memorandum and Order" appears to be WELL supported by U.S. Supreme Court case law.

<rant>
To state the matter bluntly, the RIAA has throw a punch and drawn back a bloody stump for their effort. The fact that this has occurred in the entertainment industry's own back yard means that this case, when it is affirmed by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, will establish a VERY important precedent (I would estimate that it will be at LEAST as important as the Betamax case) with regard to whether a technology should be suppressed because it CAN be used for copyright infringement. Napster was correct ... Napster DID have control over their network and they COULD ban users engaged in copyright infringement. It is a matter of FACT that Napster turned a blind eye to rampant copyright infringement on their network when they had a (rather blunt-object sort of) means to control it.

Grokster, KaZAa, LimeWire, gnutella, etc., are the opening efforts at a very promising internet technology. P2P promises to make the distribution of FLOSS and independently published literature and art a routine matter. It is true that you can't make a profit on your work if you share it by P2P, but true artists often work for the love of the art ... (cf, e.g., Linus Torvalds, Alan Cox, Larry Wall, many sci-fi fanfic authors). P2P means that people don't have to maintain crappy geocities websites to distribute their creative works for free if that's what floats their boat.

It is now and always HAS been my postition that I support strong copyright protection. After all, that's what keeps free (libre) software free. The FSF ACTIVELY enforces the copyrights assigned to it by various FLOSS authors.

Why the HELL isn't Hollywood willing to do the same when their copyrights are MUCH more valuable, from a financial point of view? One possibility is is that these highly profitable companies who, collectively, have more money than Bill Gates, would rather spend that money buying legislators who will pass laws shifting the cost of enforcing their property rights to the general public than spend it directly on legal fees (which are recoverable under copyright law).

A darker thought is that they want criminal penalties attached to any and ALL forms of copyright infringement fot the purpose of invoking the legal doctrin of "liability per se", which would award them a damned near automatic judgment against anyone convicted of a criminal copyright infringement, whether that is shipping MILLIONS of pirated CDs a week from your warehouse in Hong Kong or sharing a ripped mp3 file of a copyrighted work out to the internet.

The media conglomerates want to stomp out peer-to-peer because it threatens their stranglehold on the distribution of entertainment. More's the pity for them ... I don't buy CDs for the time being ... I don't go to movies for the time being ... I read voraciously (mostly Project Gutenberg, but I also read a LOT of Baen sci-fi (in the dead-tree, paid-for form) because I like their approach to copyright vs. electronic distribution). As the dust from the death throes of the media dinosaurs settles I may go back to buying corporate produced entertainment, but I don't expect it will be soon.

Don't like the RIAA/MPAA/??AA????? Don't give them your money. Hillary Rosen gripes about the falloff in CD sales ... personally, I think a significant part of that drop is due to the demise of Napster, but the evidence is purely anecdotal. The MAJORITY of the cause for the drop in sales is a result of TWO reasons:

1) CDs are too damned expensive ... this question has been threshed over MANY times in this forum, so I won't go over the costs of producing a commercial-produced CD.

2) The music on the CDs they are producing is CRAP. I'm WAY too old (53) to go grunge, techno, or * Metal, but I don't want to listen to no-talent slutty-girls like Britney, Christina and Jay-Lo and, can someone PLEASE nuke the next radio station that plays any of that "boy-band" shit?

To sum it up, there was no trial (and this is a GOOD thing), the media monsters will get my money when they have EARNED it, I will not freely submit to "Big Brother" just so Jack Valenti can continue to have $350.00/ounce Beluga caviar at his dinner parties for "important people"), and, in conclusion, record companies? Who the fuck needs them?

</rant

Okay this has gone on WAY to long, so I'll STFU ... good night alll.

WE need record companies (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5851212)

in conclusion, record companies? Who the fuck needs them?

We do. Well, I do.

You can read Project Gutenberg and whatever other publishers agree with your personal vision of copyright protection. You can refuse to go to movies owned by mainstream studios or distributors, you can refuse to buy CDs published by mainstream record labels, and all of that is your choice and the best of luck to you. But I won't follow you in that, because...

Well, I've seen independent movies and mainstream ones, I've heard independent and mainstream music, and I know which one I prefer. And frankly, I've already read all the Project Gutenberg books that interest me for the moment.

So the question for me is, should I allow that preference to be overridden by some ideological feeling that I prefer one distribution model over another? In short: should I allow my own cultural consumption to be determined by something other than my own personal taste?

And the answer to that, the only answer that makes any sense intellectually, culturally or morally, is a heartfelt and full-throated NO.

There's a strange prevailing belief on /. that record companies, movie studios, publishers - pretty much any type of media distributor that is known to anyone without an Internet connection - is purely parasitic, that they perform no useful function at all.

But - making culture available to the majority of the world's population who don't live in front of their computers - is that not a useful function? Finding and promoting talent, screening out tens of thousands of frankly untalented artists per year so I don't have to waste my life checking them all for myself - isn't that useful?

And you may not agree with their decisions in terms of what to promote, but the brutal fact is that the record companies live or die by the market, and if they choose to promote bands that nobody likes, they are the losers by it. And you may call J-Lo a "no-talent slutty girl", but several million CD buyers - people, that is, who are willing to back up their opinion with hard cash - say you're wrong.

And you may say their taste is defective and yours is educated, and you may well be right... but at that point I can just call you an elitist prig with no understanding of commerce, and dismiss you. Because in this sense, the market is absolutely democratic: your taste has no more weight than a 14-year-old boy's. In fact, with your stated behaviour, it has less weight. Because you've voluntarily made the quality of the art irrelevant to your "buying" decision: what matters to you is the distribution medium and mechanism. So why should the record companies waste their time considering you at all?

Removing yourself from the market means disenfranchising yourself. That's your decision. I won't follow it.

Re:WE need record companies (2, Insightful)

jez9999 (618189) | more than 11 years ago | (#5851609)

I partially agree. But, unfortunately, the logical conclusion of your argument is that we must put up with whatever the big labels throw at us, at whatever price they decide on. And many of us who 'live in front of our computers' think that sucks.

We don't deny that it's important that media is made available to the general public, the crap screened out, etc. We just think there must be a *much* better way of doing it than the status quo. Personally, I advocate the illegal pirating of material. People who 'boycott' the market are, as you said, powerless. But, like it or lump it, piracy is the only way you're gonna make a dent in outdated views, because people can both experience the media they want to, *and* not pay these companies their unreasonable excess, at the same time. Call me a criminal parasitic asshole, but you give me a better way to effect change (because we do WANT change).

when it is affirmed by the 9th Circuit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5851521)

when it is affirmed by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals,

Problem is, the 9th is the most overturned court in the land. No telling what these nutcases will do with the appeal, just a bunch of Barbara Boxer homos and San Francisco lovers.

Of course... (5, Funny)

grimsweep (578372) | more than 11 years ago | (#5850796)

...this could just be a dastardly plot to lure all of those P2P execs in one building...then BAM! 'Accident' involves gas leak mixed with suspicious DRM-compatible audio equipment.

Insider's bombshell: What Killed FreeBSD (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5851180)

The End of FreeBSD

[ed. note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]

When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.

Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.

FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.

It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.

So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.

Discussion

I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.

From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.

There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.

Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.

Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?

Shouts

To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.

To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It's when you get distracted by the politickers that they sideline you. The tireless work that you perform keeping the system clean and building is what provides the platform for the obsessives and the prima donnas to have their moments in the sun. In the end, we need you all; in order to go forwards we must first avoid going backwards.

To the paranoid conspiracy theorists - yes, I work for Apple too. No, my resignation wasn't on Steve's direct orders, or in any way related to work I'm doing, may do, may not do, or indeed what was in the tea I had at lunchtime today. It's about real problems that the project faces, real problems that the project has brought upon itself. You can't escape them by inventing excuses about outside influence, the problem stems from within.

To the politically obsessed - give it a break, if you can. No, the project isn't a lemonade stand anymore, but it's not a world-spanning corporate juggernaut either and some of the more grandiose visions going around are in need of a solid dose of reality. Keep it simple, stupid.

To the grandstanders, the prima donnas, and anyone that thinks that they can hold the project to ransom for their own agenda - give it a break, if you can. When the current core were elected, we took a conscious stand against vigorous sanctions, and some of you have exploited that. A new core is going to have to decide whether to repeat this mistake or get tough. I hope they learn from our errors.

Future

I started work on FreeBSD because it was fun. If I'm going to continue, it has to be fun again. There are things I still feel obligated to do, and with any luck I'll find the time to meet those obligations.

However I don't feel an obligation to get involved in the political mess the project is in right now. I tried, I burnt out. I don't feel that my efforts were worthwhile. So I won't be standing for election, I won't be shouting from the sidelines, and I probably won't vote in the next round of ballots.

You could say I'm packing up my toys. I'm not going home just yet, but I'm not going to play unless you can work out how to make the project somewhere fun to be again.

= Mike

--

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. -- Theodore Roosevelt

I'm glad they won, but... (4, Insightful)

Anenga (529854) | more than 11 years ago | (#5851255)

Slyck Ciarán: Janus Friis recently told Slyck that "Grokster is an older customized version of KMD/FT" and that older versions "supernode server to fetch seed IP addresses when not available locally". The verdict seemed to clear Gokster Ltd of operating any supernode server. Can you categorically say that Grokster does not need a supernode server and if not how does it fetch the location of supernodes when not availably locally?

Grokster: Grokster does not operate a Supernode server or a server with IP addresses or any type of server that interfaces in any way with the operation of Grokster or FastTrack with the exception of ad serving via the Start page. Grokster does not need a Supernode server to operate.

That doesn't sound right to me. They didn't completely answer the question: what discovery services do they use? Every P2P Servent has discovery services. Kazaa has a bootstrap server, Gnutella/Gnutella2 (Shareaza, Gnucleus etc.) has GWebCache... what does Grokster have? I seriously can't think of another way to obtain a list of "Supernodes"/"Hubs"/"Ultrapeers" other than a centralized location. Well, maybe port scanning a range of IP's to see if they're running Grokster and know of any Supernodes, but I don't think they'd do that...

It just seems like they were avoiding that question, trying to get Grokster "unaffiliated" with anything "central". Because "central" = easy to shut down.

Frankly, I really don't care what happens to Grokster. Grokster isn't in for it for the evolution of P2P technology, but rather money. Hell, they didn't even really code Grokster, they just license other P2P clients from other companies [kazaa.com] which were created from other companies [bluemoon.ee] . All they do then is create cute GUI layer then stuff it to oblivion with Spyware and other ads which yield them, apprently, "millions".

What I think won this case was their defense that P2P can be used for "good things". They probably use Gnutella as a prime example, where the network is free, open and decentralized. FastTrack (the network Grokster is modeled after) is none of those. IMO, it's a three strikes your out philosophy. Is your closed source? Strike. (Okay, you can get away with that one) Is your client network closed? Strike. Do you earn profit? Strike. Grokster is outa' here.

Napster should also have won (0, Redundant)

emptybody (12341) | more than 11 years ago | (#5851387)

maybe napster should go back to have their court case overturned?

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