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356 comments

where's the obl archives link ? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885600)

For us ppl too stupid to figure it out ourselves...

Who cares? (-1, Flamebait)

cdf12345 (412812) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885601)

I mean will this really matter when the U.S. armed forces "Liberate" the hell outta Korea later this month?

Battery
chicago2600.net

Re:Who cares? (2, Insightful)

Doom Ihl' Varia (315338) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885606)

That's North Korea. This article talks about South Korea. There is extreme economic disparity between the two.

Re:Who cares? (1)

ADRA (37398) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885635)

Then again with friendly fire as it is, the South might get it in the butt just as much as the north does :-)

Re:Who cares? (1)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885721)

The RoK needs to worry alot more about DPRK field artillery than can hit urban areas right now.

The big guns, like the 152mm tubes can hit Seoul while 10,000 DPRK artillery and mortar tubes can hit 75% of South Korea?s population.

Not to mention sabotage and the world's second largest Special Operations trained force.

We already did. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885751)

In 1950. HTH, asshat.

interesting (3, Insightful)

twiggy (104320) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885602)

I think this would be much harder to implement here in the US.. too much space, geographically, and an economy that's already in the dumps... it would be cool to see, but maybe wireless would be a more viable option (if it ever becomes legitimately secure, which it sort of inherently isn't, I guess)...

No Need to Be Jealous of Korea: the American Way (-1, Troll)

reporter (666905) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885795)

There is no need to be jealous of South Korea. The New York Times article is likely accurate in describing the degree to which the Internet has become entrenched in South Korean society. The article, however, also hints that the Internet is starting to create social problems. The young generation of South Koreans are becoming addicted to the Internet and are forgoing human contact in favor of Internet access.

There is one important thing that the Times article does not mention. Namely, the majority of the Koreans prefer to get the hell out of Internet-connected South Korea and into America. Look at the huge Korean immigrant communities in the USA. The USA must have something that is missing in Korea.

What is the missing element? It is kindness and compassion. The Internet simply cannot create kindness and compassion. The USA has an advantage in this area because we foster it in our youngsters by sending them to the boy scouts, the girl scouts, etc. We encourage volunteerism. Heck, we've got the Peace Corps.

The Korean boy spends an extra 5 hours per day on the Internet, isolated from the rest of humanity. The American boy spends an extra 5 hours on volunteerism, on dealing with flesh-n-blood human beings, etc. The Koreans laugh and snicker at how "stupid" that American boy is in high school. They laugh at how "low" his mathematics score is. Yet, that American boy knows how to build a nation of compassion, into which tens of thousands want to emigrate. Few, if any Americans, want to emigrate to Korea.

To quantify the level of cruelty in Korea, we note that more than 50% of Korean orphans in Korean orphanages are adopted by Westerners. Most of those Westerners who adopt Korean orphans are Americans. Us "stupid" Americans. Those "smart" Koreans just do not care about orphans.

Sure. We Americans do need to build our technology. We need to work on increasing the scientific and mathematical talent of our youngsters. However, let's remember to maintain our strengths. One of them is kindness and compassion, which we actively foster.

Re:No Need to Be Jealous of Korea: the American Wa (1)

eyeye (653962) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885857)

ok come on you've set us up for the punchline, don't keep us waiting!

Re:No Need to Be Jealous of Korea: the American Wa (4, Informative)

EverDense (575518) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885886)

Yet, that American boy knows how to build a nation of compassion, into which tens of
thousands want to emigrate. Few, if any Americans, want to emigrate to Korea.


Don't kid yourself, most immigrants do so for economic reasons. To get closer to the
captilatist Mecca that the USA is.

Is your "health care" system an aspect of your so called "nation of compassion"?

South Korea. (4, Informative)

sjanich (431789) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885603)

That would be "South Korea", not "Korea".

Re:South Korea. (4, Funny)

Hayzeus (596826) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885638)

No -- that would be "North Korea". Do not be fooled by the lies of the Americans -- Dear Leader is one seriously l33t d00d.

Re:South Korea. (2, Funny)

JonnyElvis42 (609632) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885773)

No -- that would be "North Korea". Do not be fooled by the lies of the Americans -- Dear Leader is one seriously l33t d00d.

As the one person in his country with access to email, yes, over there, he probably is.

Re:South Korea. (1)

John Jorsett (171560) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885796)

No -- that would be "North Korea". Do not be fooled by the lies of the Americans -- Dear Leader is one seriously l33t d00d.

Baghdad Bob? Is that you over there in North Korea? How's it going, buddy? What a relief, we thought you'd been killed.

Re:South Korea. (4, Funny)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885679)

Yeah, DPRK is still working on "America's Twenty-Four Hours of Continuous Electricity" dream.

Re:South Korea. (5, Funny)

RealTimeFreeAgent (551563) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885880)

When they get a solution to that, I hope they let California in on the secret.

And there is no North Korea either (1)

ihatewinXP (638000) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885747)

Im not joking, its DPRK "The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea" Every news source outside of the US refers to it as such (even our English speaking breatheren in Canada and Britan).

Re:And there is no North Korea either (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885855)

Are they afraid to confront the reality that Korea is divided because communists failed to conquer the whole country?

Re:And there is no North Korea either (4, Informative)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885933)

""The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea" Every news source outside of the US refers to it as such"

Yeah, and I suppose you're going to tell me that the abbreviation "DDR" didn't always refer to RAM either. :)

It's called "North Korea" simply as a conventional short-form of the name, much like how you would refer to "East Germany" and "West Germany" instead of DDR and BRD. "North Korea" simply has fewer syllables than "DPRK" and is similar to saying "America" and "Great Britain." Neither American continent is ruled by just one government and the island of Great Britain is a part of a larger government, but people still know what you mean.

Of course, if you really want to be technical, there is no "South Korea" either. It's the "Republic of Korea." Similarly, there is no Taiwan (even if you ignore the whole "One China Policy" thing). But who'd want to keep on reading sentences like "The United States of America borders on the United Mexican States" or "Some of the big players in Europe include the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Republic of France, the Federal Republic of Germany and the Russian Federation." About the only country I can think of whose "formal" name is the same as the informal one is Canada, and I think that's at least partly due to the fact that adding any more words to it would require two official names (one English, one French).

wow (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885604)

i just got done jerking in the company bathroom, and now a fp?!?!

could it get any better?

first spoiler (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885608)

trinity dies at the end of the matrix reloaded

Fragile broadband lead (3, Funny)

Gefiltefish11 (611646) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885613)


One well-placed North Korean nuke and South Korea's broadband capacity won't look quite as attractive to business.

Re:Fragile broadband lead (2, Insightful)

Fulcrum of Evil (560260) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885673)

One well-placed North Korean nuke and South Korea's broadband capacity won't look quite as attractive to business.

More to the point, North Korea has artillery in position right now that could level Seoul in 5 minutes, and It's been like that for years. Talk about a mind-fuck.

Re:Fragile broadband lead (1)

PD (9577) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885793)

That whole situation is insane. The North has thousands of artillery pieces that could unleash an unbelievable attack on Seoul. Estimates of the dead there are 6 million out of the 12 million residents.

And we've got our own set of artillery and missiles pretargeted on NK positions. It'll be the bloodiest half hour EVER in the history of warfare.

NK won't be able to win the war, but they would be able to make a significant incursion into the South before being turned back. The 50,000 Americans there would suffer heavy casualties too. The South's military is modern, well equipped, and well trained, so they and the US troops would prevail in the end.

But that situation is so damn scary for both sides . Most people don't even know about it, but it seems to me that an open war there would be one of the worst things that could happen.

Re:Fragile broadband lead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885856)

The 50,000 Americans there would suffer heavy casualties too

They will be safe underground while the Nukes fly towards Pyongyang.

Re:Fragile broadband lead (1, Insightful)

ADRA (37398) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885685)

The word is Deterance, and North Korea is building nuclear weapons to defend their soverenty against Bush and his fanatically aggressive millitary campaigns.. and you wonder why you have no friends... *sigh*

PS: Although that is one way to look at things, it is also possible that North Korea has always wanted nukes and has used the Iraqi war as an excuse to build them. Either way, America has made North Korea a lot more justified in building up their weapons programs.

Teacher: Peace begets peace and war begets war.
Bush: But they are crazy!
Teacher: Hmm.. so, what have we learned children?
Bush: Kill them before the kill us!

Re:Fragile broadband lead (1, Informative)

sjanich (431789) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885785)

The word is Deterance, and North Korea is building nuclear weapons to defend their soverenty against Bush and his fanatically aggressive millitary campaigns.

Actually, North Korea started their nuke buildup in the 1990's. They signed agreement with the US essentially not to do so in exchanges for food,energy equipment, and other stuff. Then they took their program underground. It has only now come out, now that they may have 2 nuclear devices. Now they are threatning overtly to use them against The US or Japan. Unspoken, is that North Korea would be willing to sell them to anyone. They already sell missile and other military tech to anybody.

It is pretty funny that you would suggest Bush is a fanatic and not suggest that of the North Korean dictator.

Re:Fragile broadband lead (3, Funny)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885763)

One well-placed North Korean nuke and South Korea's broadband capacity won't look quite as attractive to business.

And North Korea won't look attractive to anyone but cockroaches.

Oh, wait...

How the hell did this get "Insightful" ? (1)

phippy (176682) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885860)

totally off-topic, and has nothing to do with the fact that most of Asia is more connected and higher speed than the US.

when I can get 12mb to my house like in Tokyo, THEN i'll say the US is connected.

Re:Fragile broadband lead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885897)

What makes you think that nuke would be aimed at South Korea instead of, say, San Fransisco?

first post (-1, Offtopic)

bitpusherdotorg (544243) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885618)

first post bitch!

keep in mind (0, Insightful)

kamskii (619903) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885621)

..that Korea is about the size of new jersey. I assuming that south korea is half that.

Re:keep in mind (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885814)

Who modded this up as insightful? According to the CIA world factbook, S. Korea is larger than Indiana. When did New Jersey grow?

The reality of this situation is, Korea has done a far better job of emcouraging broadband service than the US. I don't know very many people here who don't have a broadband connection.

Prices vary, but for somewhere around $40/month you get 6/1.544 ADSL (from Easynews at those speeds) or 10Mbps bi-directional cable service.

I won't get into the Cable vs ADSL argument here, but both work reasonably well and I've used both in Korea at one point in time or the other.

Re:keep in mind (4, Insightful)

Xerithane (13482) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885878)

North Korea: 120,540 sq km [photius.com]
South Korea: 98,480 sq km [photius.com]

New Jersey: 11,936 sq km [fedstats.gov]

Will you people, who don't know what you are talking about, kindly shut the hell up.

didn't pay attn. in geography in school? (2, Informative)

23 (68042) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885938)

keep in mind to check the facts:

S. Korea [cia.gov] : 98,190 sq km
New Jersey [pe.net] : 20,295 sq km.

so by my math: S.Korea is roughly 5 times bigger than NJ, more like Indiana.

Oops.

Re:keep in mind (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885939)

Oh really? And I assume you pulled those numbers out of your ass, seeying how these numbers give a completelly different story.

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_South _K orea
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey

South Korea alone is over 4 times larger than New Jersey. And keep in mind that Canada is much more connected to the Net than the US, and we are a much larger and much more sparsly populated country. I think it's more of an issue of regulations, the US created for a large part a lot of this technology in it's universities, but then the big corps went and messed it all up.

"But profits are elusive." (4, Insightful)

Dutchmaan (442553) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885631)

..and is anyone wondering why despite America's huge landmass and population spread over it.. that this broadband dream hasn't happened here yet? :)

Don't worry... (0, Troll)

release7 (545012) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885637)

...the Free Market Fairy is coming very soon and will bestow upon our great nation unbridled weath and abundance. But first, you must believe!

Damn Canadians (0, Troll)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885641)

When it comes to high-speed penetration of the home, the
United States lags well behind South Korea and Canada,
and has slipped below Japan.

I guess all those civil liberties are making them Canadians upitty.

Re:Damn Canadians (2, Interesting)

phorm (591458) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885783)

Strange. Ever since I got broadband there has been a lot less high-speed penetration at my home. Oh, wait... that's of
Seriously though, even many small towns in Canada have high speed. I live in a town (note, not even a city) that has not even a movie theatre or a small mall, yet we still have ADSL, Cable, and (crappy reception in many areas but...) cell-phone access. From what I've heard, it's often cheaper here too.

Here, it's the telco and cableco that mostly run the show. My telco does a really decent job of it most times too (Telus), though I dislike the requirement of a landline to run my ADSL. Cable is less so... it can be damn slow at some times/locations. I wonder why not as many telcos in the US aren't abandoning the old-fashioned phone-market for a higher focus on cellular/internet connectivity?

Sigh... (5, Insightful)

armyofone (594988) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885650)

Maybe I would have broadband available where I live if the US government were an 'encouraging' entity instead of bogged down in bureaucracy. Whatever happened to leadership? Looks to me as though it's moving overseas...

Re:Sigh... (1)

Absurd Being (632190) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885758)

The utilities that control the lines are just as bogged down in bureaucracy. You expect anything else from a monopoly? Government, or monopolies, either way we're screwed.

Re:Sigh... (2, Interesting)

TheCodeFoundry (246594) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885840)

Why must the government be expected to offer every luxury?

A government is for governing and protecting its citizens, not offering luxury goods to them. If the government did this, what is next, universal "socialist" health care? A pair of pants on every citizen? I mean, come on!

The government funded electricity and telephone service in its infancy, but those were utilities. I don't see how broadband is a utility.

Re:Sigh... (4, Insightful)

geekee (591277) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885881)

So you want the US to subsidize failing telcos? That's your idea of an encouraging entity? That's what I'd consider a socialist beuracracy. Let free market decide. The technology is here. It's not like the US has to encourage developing the technology. If people want it, let them pay for it, but don't make taxpayers pay for bandwidth they have already chosen to opt without, and stick with cheaper dial-up access instead.

American VALUES are alive at: (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885659)

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That won't work here (1)

jrl87 (669651) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885660)

We're capitalists (or we're supposed to be anyway) and besides if the government took control of implementing broadband then how could some company (started in someones garage) monopolize the market?

Re:THAT won't work here: but THIS WILL: (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885692)

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lets not forget what type of economic system (3, Informative)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885661)

S. Korea has. they have a government driven Capitolist system. the government tells each company what to make.

so the governement told the telco to make broadband available every where and the telco did.

Re:lets not forget what type of economic system (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885702)

they have a government driven Capitolist system.

What, the Government spends all it's time encouraging the erection of more government buildings?

(hur hur, he said 'erection')

Much Easier in Korea (4, Insightful)

fastdecade (179638) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885663)

Not only is USA more spread out, but Korea is full of high-density housing. I mean, Seoul looks like something out of a profitable Sim City, with entire clusters of high-density houses. And then theres the net cafes for LAN games for when the kiddies want to leave their broadband home connections and go outside.

Koreas definitely at the forefront - subway has cell phone access, mainstream TV shows feature live gaming ... like in Japan, but with less bullshit bureaucracy. If anything, Id say Korea is fast becoming Japans technophile dream.

Re:Much Easier in Korea (5, Interesting)

inaeldi (623679) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885779)

But look at Canada. Canada is even more spread out that the US and it has far better broadband access (than the US, not Korea).

I'm not surprised... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885666)

Thanks to our lame free enterprise system, where one company (regardless of how many smaller units the FTC breaks it up into) owns all of the cable or phone line, broadband is just not affordable.

We've gone from ~$30/mo for 6Mb in the @Home days to nearly $50/mo for 1.5Mb thanks to ATT and now Comcast. In another 5 years, BB will be $100/mo for 768Kb. Gee, more money for less speed, I can't imagine why it's not taking off!

Re:I'm not surprised... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885762)

And to think that some people in the world are starving, while you sit at home getting a mere 150k/sec!

What are you talking about? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885885)

Here in Memphis cable is affordable. First started out on Road Runner's 6 month promotion, at $30 each month, My speed was about 580/186 kbps.

After that deal ended, I switched over to Earthlink branded Road Runner. The first 3 months are at $20, then it will go to $42 a month. My bandwidth is a blistering 2048 kbps for download (I'm not joking), and 385 kbps upload. For less money, I'm getting more bandwidth.

Re:I'm not surprised... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885910)

broadband is just not affordable.
nearly $50/mo


If 70,000,000 people can afford to spend that much on cigarettes each month, I am sure you can afford to spend it on broadband internet access.

Of course.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885667)

the profits are elusive! With the exception of the larger cities like Seoul, the small towns really couldn't give a crap about "Broadband"! Everyone has their own set of priorities and for the farming communities (70% of Korea!) farming is all they care about and want!
It's like trying to bring HDTV to Eskimos; sure it's great and beautiful, but what purpose does it serve? It's a luxury that isn't worthwhile for them at this point!

Blame Canada (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885669)

The U.S. is a lot more spread out than Korea, though

And what about Canada? They're up there too with ~%50 penetration. You can't really claim that they're much less spread out than the US. I imagine that dense urban areas, where implementing broadband would be easiest, make up a similar percentage of population as well.

On top of that their rates are lower than those in the US (in Candian $'s nonetheless!).

Re:Blame Canada (1)

ADRA (37398) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885743)

You can blame our somewhat socialistic government for THAT one :-)

Re:Blame Canada (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885774)

Most of the population lives within 100 miles of the U.S. border.

Re:Blame Canada (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885806)

Last time I checked, the population density was greater in Canada too.

Re:Blame Canada (1)

Unoriginal Nick (620805) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885826)

And what about Canada? They're up there too with ~%50 penetration. You can't really claim that they're much less spread out than the US. I imagine that dense urban areas, where implementing broadband would be easiest, make up a similar percentage of population as well.

Wrong. Canada's population is much more concentrated than the U.S. Don't forget that a large portion of it is frozen all year long.

Canada's density makes it different (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885877)

Canada's population is far more urban than the USA's. From Toronto's web site [toronto.on.ca] :
One quarter of Canada's population lives within a 160 kilometre (100-mile) radius of Toronto.
BC accounts for another ~4 million out of a total population of 30 million. I'm not sure if Ottawa and Montreal are close enough to be part of Toronto's 100-mile circle, but if not they'd account for another large fraction of the population of the country by themselves.

The conclusion: Canada is big, but it's got a few relatively small highly populated areas and a whole lot of very sparsely populated territory between. Thus, serving most of the people with broadband is a lot easier and cheaper than in the USA.

RTFA Timothy (3, Insightful)

psycho (84421) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885675)

Connectivity is not the primary issue. The article says broadband in S. Korea is a vastly different thing from so-called "broadband" in the US. In-fact, end-mile access speeds of more than 4 Mbps are changing the way the S. Koreans use the internet.

It's starting to happen in the uk too. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885678)

After what NTL did, the competition has been heating up, continuingly knocking the prices down, to the point of less than £25 a month for a 1mb connection, £40 for a 2Mb and around £65 for a for a 4mb connection. I just hope a company has the balls to release a 8mb connection for less than £100 a month, because I know a lot of people who would wan't it.

Still, my exchange is still not upgraded for xDSL [uk.com] , so im stuck with Telewest ;(.

Really? You don't say... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885684)


"The U.S. is a lot more spread out than Korea, though -- some American cities are pretty well connected."

from the no-shit-sherlock dept.

At who's expense? (2, Insightful)

geekee (591277) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885694)

When you see $32 for great bandwidth, but also see a lot of govt. subsidizing, you need to ask yourself who's really paying the price. Is it fair for taxpayers to provide cheap bandwidth for others even if they don't use the internet? In the US, this has been left to free market, and the internet bubble burst is quite a bit of proof that the average American would rather pay less for a slow connection than pay more for a fast one. Why force the tax burden on the majority to benefit a minority that actually uses it?

Re:At who's expense? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885781)

You're asking this to a bunch of Slashdot geeks? I think you already know the answer:

If it benefits me, others should have to pay for it.
It it doesn't benefit me, I shouldn't have to pay for it.

Re:At who's expense? (1)

psicE (126646) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885823)

Alternatively, you could eschew the $32 fee, raise taxes a bit, and make the internet free for all.

The only problem.. (3, Insightful)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885695)

.. is that the entire nation was dumped on the Internet at the same time. An entire nation of newbies. All the schools in South Korea got the same distro of Linux with open proxies running, and I'm not sure if there's a single working abuse emailbox in the whole country.

Re:The only problem.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885746)


"An entire nation of newbies. All the schools in South Korea got the same distro of Linux with open proxies running..."

OK. Simple Solution. Can you guess what it is yet, Rolf? That's right possums - Windows XP.

Is this a good thing? (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885697)

"thanks to government encouragement,"

We've tried the whole "government encouragement" bit to an extent, except our phone companies aren't interested in having their cake if they can't eat it as well.

I expect the Baby Bells to be using this as an excuse to lobby our Congress to loosen up the Telecommunications Act of 1996 a bit...

It's easier in Korea. (-1, Redundant)

Ungrounded Lightning (62228) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885709)

Korea Telecom has it a lot easier than companies in the US. The bulk of the South Korean population (something like 95% of 'em) live in these VERY LARGE apartment buildings. And the buildings have mini-telecom-central-offices in them already. Then the buildings are pretty close together as well.

So rather than stringing wires or fiber all over thousands of miles of continent, a Korean ISP only needs to string fiber to a few buildings and wire the buildings. No "last mile" problem. With low infrastructure cost the cost per subscriber can be tiny and the bandwidth high.

(Then there's the demand for bandwidth - very high thanks to a cultural difference. I hear that the current big thing among Korean high-school students is to go home after school, take off their clothes, and webcam-chat with their friends. Intimate but safe.)

How about Canada? (4, Interesting)

miguel_at_menino.com (89271) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885711)


The U.S. is a lot more spread out than Korea, though -- some American cities are pretty well connected.

From what I gather, DSL and Cable is cheaper and more available in Canada than in the US. And we know that Canada is much more "spread out" than the US. So that's not the reason at all.

I don't understand why Americans are so against government intervention in this area. It's not so evil or communist to have the government subsidize, legislate or otherwise help create infrastructure. Nobody calls the US interstate highway system "communist" or "socialist" because the government built it. Besides, who paid for ARPANET in the first place? What ARPANET communist?

Re:How about Canada? (2, Interesting)

sql*kitten (1359) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885744)

I don't understand why Americans are so against government intervention in this area. It's not so evil or communist to have the government subsidize, legislate or otherwise help create infrastructure.

Guess you're too young to remember just how bad the state-monopoly telco really was :-)

Canada? (4, Informative)

stego (146071) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885749)

It is my understanding that, while Canada is a large country, that like 95% of the population lives w/ in like 100 miles of the US/Canada border. It would be more accurate to think of Canada as a very short but wide country, like a sideways Chile.

Re:How about Canada? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885772)

How about Canada?
Canada is much more "spread out" than the US


Ummm... About 99% of Canadians live on 1% of the landmass. As you can see in This Photo [nasa.gov] the northern 75% of the country is virtually deserted.

Re:How about Canada? (1)

John Jorsett (171560) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885896)

I don't understand why Americans are so against government intervention in this area.

I can't speak for all of America, but my reason is that once government starts paying for something, it ineluctably starts to remake it in ways pleasing to it. The attitude is, "we're laying out the dough for this thing, and that makes it ours." An example would be government-paid health care. Because it's picking up the check for some people, government feels it can cajole, nag, and regulate those who smoke, drink, are overweight, or make lifestyle choices that lead to health problems. I prefer to leave government out of the loop on the internet as much as possible.

And next? (1)

KaiKaitheKai (531398) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885713)

I expect to see a "Korea's network obsolete" story here by tomorrow morning... ;)

But seriously, how quickly are users going to clamor for more bandwidth? Sure, 9600 baud was great, you could send data uberfast, and that was all you needed. I remember my first 14.4K modem, where I could plug a phone line into it instead of having to place the handset on the reciever... Amazing it seemed. But now, modems seem like a joke.

Korea is much more socially techno than people in America. I mean, where else do you have local hangout places (bars, et al) outfitted with computers so that buddies can battle it out? Unless you are in the small minority of geeks who actually know how fast a T1 is, bandwidth is either slow or fast. In Korea, computers and technology are much more important socially, in both the high-class business world to the 3L33t G4M3M45T3RZ world. Here, if an executive or teen brandishes his or her new PDA, people "Oooh" and "Ahhh" and think, "I want one of those so people will think I'm rich." In Korea, people think, "I thought the X2Z56a revision of that PDA wasn't out yet..."

You get the idea. Koreans treasure their bandwidth more than Americans do, on average. When will they want more?

South Korea is so (un)wired it's scary (5, Informative)

ilsie (227381) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885715)

Last time I was in S. Korea (December, 2001) someone quoted me a statistic that one out of every two people (that includes everybody- babies, homeless guys, old people) have a hand phone. (cell phone for those US-centric.)

I was being made fun of by old people because my state-of-the-art US cell phone at the time was a "brick".

Obviously, broadband is just as widespread. My 80-year old grandmother doesen't even have a washing machine, but she has DSL, for crying out loud.

On a related note... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885798)

One out of every two people in S. Korea has an antenna shaped brain tumor...

Fast Internet (1)

Zerbey (15536) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885717)

Off topic a little...

Broadband aside, one of the reasons Internet connectivity in England is so fast is that pretty much all of the ISP's are housed in 2 buildings - Telehouse City and Telehouse East. This is doable because England is so small (about the size of Florida). Therefore, if you connect to another UK site the chances are your interconnect is over a 100Mbit (or even faster) LAN connection.

Is it the same way in South Korea? If so local Internet must be blindingly fast!

I would love to see this happen on a Global Scale and it is getting close with peering points such as MAE East/West, Telehouse (New York, London, etc.), Amsterdam and Frankfurt to name but a few hosting servers with mirrors of major websites. TUCOWS [tucows.com] being an excellent example. In a few years, bandwidth will cost next to nothing and hardware is already getting very cheap. All it takes when the prices go down is some smart routing and DNS. :-)

Maybe I'm just dreaming...

Re:Fast Internet (1)

OECD (639690) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885859)

Broadband aside, one of the reasons Internet connectivity in England is so fast is that pretty much all of the ISP's are housed in 2 buildings - Telehouse City and Telehouse East.

You're kidding! You mean one natural (or unnatural) disaster and half of England is off the net? That seems very September 10th.

Wow, Canada is double than US (5, Interesting)

Bazouel (105242) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885735)

From the site :

1- South Korea : 57.4 %
2- Canada : 49.9 %
3- Japon : 25.6 %
4- USA : 22.8 %

Canada ratio is double than that of USA !

I guess that kind of make the argument "The U.S. is a lot more spread out than Korea" a bit overdue at the very least :)

Re:Wow, Canada is double than US (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885862)

I wonder if there is a correlation between a country's broadband coverage and it's tax rates.

Yeah, I guess I am glad I'm not paying for Joe Sixpack's porn bill, even though it means I pay extra for my 384k upload.

Re:Wow, Canada is double than US (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885937)

Oh yeah...wow... rocks.

Canada: 31,902,268 (July 2002 est.)
31,902,268 x .499 = 14,324,118

United States: 280,562,489 (July 2002 est.)
280,562,489 x .228 = 63,968,247

The U.S. has more than 4 times as many people hooked up than Canada in spite of the Geography. Plus, honestly, what the fsck lives in Northern Canada other than eskimos and seals? Seriously....Now honestly, between Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec and Vancouver and their surrounding areas, how much of Canada's population isn't accounted for? Gee...those sure would be tough to hook up. What an impressive display of...well...whatever.

Didn't this happen to the Soviet Union? (1)

release7 (545012) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885753)

I thought I remember reading in one of my dusty history books that people who lived in the former Soviet Union had shitty consumer goods and infrastructure because the spent all their money on military endeavors. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Interesting, but... (2, Flamebait)

andyring (100627) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885766)

While this may be interesting, in a capitalist society such as the U.S., it is not the government's responsibility to provide Internet access to individuals. I am perfectly happy with my DSL as is, and i don't want them meddling in it. If I wanted socialism, I'd move to South Korea or Europe. But I don't.

Re:Interesting, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885901)

As was stated earlier, I bet there is a strong correlation between boradband coverage and tax rates, with Canada leading broadband coverage.

Cities well wired? (3, Informative)

SuperBanana (662181) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885769)

I live 30 minutes from Boston, smack inbetween the 495 and 128 technology corridors. Eastern MA, for years, has been the Silicon Valley of the east- a LOT of old-school companies were here, and a number of companies are still firmly planted in Boston, Worcester, Framingham/Natick, Burlington...

...but I have ONE choice in cable, and last I checked, DSL wasn't being sold in my area by Bell- they don't offer DSL anywhere there's cablemodem access, because(gasp!) they don't want to compete. I think they may have started offering DSL now(they CO has been wired for DSL for many, many years), but the prices are absurd and there's a 96kbit upload cap. Yes, you read right, 96kbit! How am I supposed to upload cute photos to grandma, or "my files" they've always got some business-person-type harking about, for work, at 96kbit?

In lower/mid-westchester 2 years ago, I had 1.5mbit/768 for about $70/mo, and my choice of providers(I went with Speakeasy and paid a little more per month.) I was quite far from NYC, and Westchester doesn't have nearly the technology industry that most of eastern MA has.

Good lord. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885776)


30 something posts into the article, and know-it-all asshat HanzoSan [slashdot.org] hasn't dipped his oar in yet? Christ, there must be something hideously wrong.

Cheap in Asia (4, Informative)

SynKKnyS (534257) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885788)

In nearly all countries in Asia, broadband is very cheap. Here in Taiwan, it only costs $10/Month for cable modem service via an annual fee. To push the broadband rush, the government has mandated all dial-up services to be free. In Taiwan, dial-up [tacomart.com] is [yahoo.com] nearly free [gcn.net.tw] . The only thing you pay for is the by-minute phone charges that occur on every call here.

However, a lot of people used the free dial-up service. So, broadband ISPs had to push to get customers. They have done things like offering extremely cheap service and promising amazing speeds. This is not only limited to Taiwan, similar broadband pushes have occurred in China, Hong Kong, and even South Korea.

To comment on timothy's blurb and the article, although the US is well connected it does not have the push that Asian countries go for. The $32/month internet service is quite expensive in South Korea. Although the US is widespread, laws and regulations have also hindered the spread of broadband. For instance, there is no law in the US forcing cable systems to have competitors when it comes to broadband internet. There may be other examples, but I will leave that to Slashdotters to discuss.

Re:Cheap in Asia (2, Insightful)

Malfourmed (633699) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885876)

In nearly all countries in Asia, broadband is very cheap. Here in Taiwan, it only costs $10/Month for cable modem service via an annual fee.
But what's that $10 compared to the cost of living?

Re:Cheap in Asia [errata] (1)

SynKKnyS (534257) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885911)

I didn't mean "even" South Korea, I meant "especially" South Korea. And, one of those links didn't make it. Needless to say, there are over 20 free dial-up services here in Taiwan. Most of them go through this one dial-up service center so they share the same phone number, bringing the actual service count down to around 8 or so. Also just speculating, but for that $32/month, that Korean man probably had 5 Mb/sec for both downstream and upstream or faster. :)

statistics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885813)

um... probly 50% of people in Korea (south) don't even know what the internet is. Just because you can point to a few people who have broadband who've never left their home district of Seoul, doesn't mean everyone is wired.

Yes, more people per capita have broadband in South Korea. But fewer people have computers. A whole lot of them use cyber-cafes for email and games and that's it.

Korea != South Korea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5885818)

America's Broadband Dream Is Alive-- In Korea

Try South Korea ONLY!!

This is what happens in North Korea: http://archive.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/nkore a929
"Starving North Koreans are turning to cannibalism and the government has started executing villagers selling human flesh"

The key difference (5, Insightful)

release7 (545012) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885843)

In the US, the Internet is considered to be a consumer product. So if there's not way to make immediate cash, there's not going to be any technological progress. In other more forward looking countries, the Internet is a collective investment, that everyone benefits from, not just corporations. It's this mindset that has allowed Canada and Korea to pull far ahead.

Particularly discouraging is that the US doesn't even have a policy to get broadband into every home on the horizon while practically all other modern, democratized nations do. We're still waiting for the Free Market Fairy to come along and wave her magic wand.

Not a dream, but a nightmare (spam) (3, Insightful)

dananderson (1880) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885869)

People forget that there's some responsibility using the Internet--this includes not soaking the rest of the world in spam and (for ISPs) not ignoring abuse complaints. I've blocked South Korea completely by routing all Korea IP blocks to a blackhole (non-existant IP address). If you'd like to do the same for this (and perhaps other countries and select ISPs), see http://www.blackholes.us/ [blackholes.us] Click on (South) Korea.

Once this and other rogue nations and ISPs behave in a responsible manner, perhaps they can rejoin the club. Now back to our regular programming :-) . . .

Korea? (2, Insightful)

DaytonCIM (100144) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885912)

Did I miss something? Did the two Koreas repair their relationship and become one? Or have we used US Tax $dollars to wire up North Korea?

Size doesn't matter (5, Informative)

shking (125052) | more than 11 years ago | (#5885923)

The U.S. is a lot more spread out than Korea, though
That argument doesn't hold water. Canada is more spread out than the U.S., but is in second place. It's a bigger country, with one tenth the population, yet it has more than twice the broadband penetration.

From the article, here is a list showing the broadband penetration as a percentage of Internet households:

  1. 57.4% - South Korea
  2. 49.9% - Canada
  3. 25.6% - Japan
  4. 22.8% - United States
  5. 18.4% - Sweden
  6. 18.1% - Germany
  7. 14.6% - France
  8. 10.8% - Italy
  9. 10.7% - Britain
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