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RIAA Nightmare: Pro-level Portable Hard Disk Recorder

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the big-fat-record-button dept.

Music 240

ratfynk writes "Anybody interested in creating their own MP3 or WAV recordings should take a look at this device. It is a compact hard drive recorder that looks like it is the next logical step beyond ADAT. My interest is fair use, the ability to record my compositions and performance with studio grade equipment at a reasonable cost. This device seems to fit the bill. Specs are available at micsupply.com. This device looks so good that the RIAA might try to make it illegal." For a not-cheap but cheaper alternative, check out the updated-weekly Core Sound page on their PDA-based recorder mentioned a few months ago.

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240 comments

fr1st ps0t (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5913865)

i have succeeded

Re:fr1st ps0t (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5913886)

Now why don't you proceed to lick my ballz to really suckeed .....

Re:fr1st ps0t (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5913908)

Now you can cum and suck my ballz 2.

Suck them like your momma sucks the cock of goatse. Like them like your momma suck the anus of goatse.

Oliver Twist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914089)

Please sir, may I have some more?

Slashdot sucks (-1)

Reikk (534266) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913879)

Just like Linux and FreeBSD, slashdot is dying

Re:Slashdot sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5913962)

Slashdot has always sucked. That's why everyone comes back!

i doubt the riaa can stop this (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5913891)

for one reason and one reason alone, fair fvcking use. we still have the rights in this country to purchase items to use for our convenience. they should not, and in my opinion, never will have the fvcking right to tell me that i as an american cannot buy a product because it would hurt their industry. its like telling a cay buyer not to buy a chevy because it would hurt his ford dealership.

Karma Whore Time (ps... mod parent above troll) (3, Informative)

Uber Banker (655221) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913949)

Parent makes a valid point, pls mod up.

Now, the website looks like it is going tits-up so time for some cut-n-paste:

--ARTICLE BELOW--

Due to arrive late Summer '03

April 17, 2003

Sound Devices quietly previewed two upcoming audio recorders, the 744T and 722, at NAB 2003 in Las Vegas. These products have instantly re-defined portable audio recording and are being viewed as the logical successor to time-code-DAT and portable-DAT recorders. They also bring important new capabilities to audio professionals including portable multi-track recording, non-linear file access, the ability to record to both internal hard drive and compact flash, high-speed data transfers via FireWire, up to 24-bit /96 kHz data rates with high-resolution A/D, native MP3 file encoding, and extended runtime from on-board batteries. The 744T and 722 recorders are slated for availability late summer 2003.

Below is preliminary feature information on one of the two recorders - the two channel 722. As Sound Devices nears introduction, additional product information will be posted. Please bookmark this page and stop by regularly. If you would like to be sent a notice that this information has been updated, drop us your e-mail address and request to be put on the recorder e-mailing list.

About the 722 (2 channel)

Features
Analog Audio Inputs and Outputs

* Two full-featured active-balanced mic/line level inputs with selectable 48 V phantom powering on XLR-3 connectors
* MS stereo matrix
* High-resolution A/D and D/A converters
* Full input-to-output routing matrix
* Mic/line-level selectable outputs on balanced TA3 connectors
* Headphone output on 3.5-mm jack with level control
* Headphone source selection can monitor any input or output, including real time post-record monitoring
* Adjustable high-pass filter on XLR inputs

Display, Metering, and Controls

* Front panel backlit LCD display viewable in all lighting conditions
* Sunlight-viewable LED meter selectable among multiple sources, including analog input levels

Digital I/O

* Two-channel AES input on balanced TA3 connector
* Two-channel S/PDIF input on RCA connector
* AES real time digital outputs on balanced TA3 connector
* S/PDIF real time output on RCA connector

Recorder

* Selectable track arming of track 1 or 2
* Selectable bit depth of 16 or 24-bit (16-bit with or without dither)
* Selectable sampling rates of 44.1, 48, or 96 kHz
* Records to uncompressed .wav or .bwf (mono or poly) files
* On-board MP3 encoding at 128, 192, and 256 kb/s mono or stereo

Data Storage (Medium)

* Internal 40 GB 2.5-inch hard drive (field removable and replaceable)
* CF (type I, II, and + compatible) slot for removable medium
* Recording to internal hard drive, CF, or mirror to both mediums (identical file format)
* Record buffer of 20 second at 24-bit / 48 kHz x 2 (10 seconds at 24/96 x 2)

External Data Interface

* 1394 (FireWire 400) port for high-speed data transfer between local disks and computer. CF and internal drive appear as FAT32 volumes
* Serial port (future expansion)
* Word clock input and output - also allows linking multiple units

Powering

* Removable Lion rechargeable battery compatible with Sony M and L mounts
* Voltage metering on front panel LCD display
* 5-18 VDC input via 4-pin Hirose connector for external powering

Mechanicals

* Class-defining compact design
* Extruded aluminum chassis

Estimated 722 Retail Price: * ~$2000 with 40 GB internal drive

Estimated 744T Price: ~$4000

Please note that features, specifications, and pricing are subject to change...and will. This is not a complete list of features.

--END OF ARTICLE--

Re:Karma Whore Time (ps... mod parent above troll) (1)

calidoscope (312571) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914096)

Hmmmm 722, 744T...

Why do I get the impression that someone is nostalgic for the Crown tape recorders?

Call me stupid... (1)

allism (457899) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914114)

but what is a CF slot? (Sorry I am not a hardware person). Is this a slot for a floppy or CD-RW/DVDR-W drive?

Re:Call me stupid... (1)

NetMasta10bt (468001) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914152)

Compact Flash == CF

Like the cards used in a lot of digital cameras or portable MP3 players etc...

Re:Call me stupid... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914157)

CF is short for compact flash, it's a smaller variant of PCMCIA. Generally used in PDAs and digital cameras as an expansion method. Under linux it presents and ATA/IDE interface, hence a CF memory card on a Zaurus is /dev/hda

Re:i doubt the riaa can stop this (2, Insightful)

Jason1729 (561790) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914029)

Just like fair use protected my rights to use DeCSS to rip some DVDs to my notebook HD so I can play them on a trip? Oh, you must have meant the way fair use protects my rights to use p2p software to distribute music I record or even download mp3s of songs on CDs I have.

Jason
ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]

They can try... (3, Insightful)

armyofone (594988) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913893)

This device looks so good that the RIAA might try to make it illegal.

The more they try, the more innovations will come along. The RIAA are fighting a losing battle. The sooner they realize it, the better off everyone, (including the RIAA), will be.

Re:They can try... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914105)

Stupid RIAA. Don't let them limit your imagination of engineering things up. If everyone thought about every implication of consumer devices, we'd still be stuck with super-safe stone wheels on our cars. (Tires might pop! Stone wheels are more resistant and therefore safer!)

Re:They can try... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914167)

The more they tighten their grip, the more systems will slip out of their control

Someday we will fly the x-wing of P2P into the death star of the MPAA/RIAA and we will destroy the evil Valenti and his reign of terror will be at an end.

So good it's illegal (2, Insightful)

siskbc (598067) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914320)

Shit, they said that about the damned VCR. Neither their goals nor ours (a broad "us" I realize, but I digress) have changed in 20 years. They want money, we want freedom.

Despite this, they've won. Why? We don't have libbyists! The EFF doesn't have enough money. What we need are for some high-profile geeks that are commercially successful and not particularly political in the real world (read: not Stallman) to openly back the EFF, donating money and such.

Think if the EFF was even as powerful as the ACLU. Stupid laws like the DMCA would be immediately challenged and shit-canned. Copyright wouldn't last millennia. It's time to have these bullshit industry lobbying groups fear us for a change.

Why mention RIAA? (-2, Flamebait) (4, Insightful)

Bonker (243350) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913896)

I know, this story is not good enough to be posted just as hardware or audio news.

What's otherwise a fairly interesting piece of hardware has no relation to the RIAA, so it's given one to make it more interesting.

Actually I enjoy hearing about stuff like this... (3, Insightful)

L0stb0Y (108220) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913926)

I could care less if they mention the RIAA or not, I enjoy hearing about interesting new products, especially tech-type toys. So "this story is not good enough" is from your perspective...with your wonderful paradigms...so yes, it was interesting enough for me to read even without the RIAA reference.

(And a dig at RIAA just adds a little bounus humor!)

Re:Actually I enjoy hearing about stuff like this. (2, Insightful)

Bonker (243350) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913983)

I think the piece of hardware is quite interesting and worthy of a post on Slashdot. Unfortuneately, I nearly passed it up for seeing it as 'Oh, god. Yet another RIAA article.'

Re:Actually I enjoy hearing about stuff like this. (2, Funny)

L0stb0Y (108220) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914015)

I see what you mean now...RIAA = MUST NOT READ, or the RIAA mind corps. will be at your house soon! :)

Come on, miss out on any dig on the RIAA? For shame ;)

Anyway, I misunderstood the point of your original post....

Re:Actually I enjoy hearing about stuff like this. (1)

gilesjuk (604902) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914056)

Well it becomes the responsibility of the venue's security staff to prevent illegal bootlegs of gig. I can't see how the RIAA would care.

If they banned all devices capable of infringing copyright then you would have no samplers, digital or analog recording tools and no computers.

Re:Actually I enjoy hearing about stuff like this. (3, Insightful)

brer_rabbit (195413) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914064)

(And a dig at RIAA just adds a little bounus humor!)

Humor? It's pure FUD and it doesn't add anything to the content. I don't mind a bit of opinionated journalism but this type of unsubstantiated comment is unwarranted.

Re:Actually I enjoy hearing about stuff like this. (1)

L0stb0Y (108220) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914139)

Humor in the fact that it brought a smile to my face.

FUD, whatever~ so don't read it.

*Exactly* (1)

0x0d0a (568518) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913927)

This is exactly what I thought, though I was a bit more cynical...if I worked at an audio supply place, I might post something to Slashdot...free advertising on a high-traffic site for only the effort of fabricating an RIAA tie-in.

Of course, it could just be the poster wanting to get his story put up, but the paranoid view is much more fun...

Re:*Exactly* (1)

sporty (27564) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913977)

Not really. It should be a serious concern. The RIAA probably will be over all of this like it has been all over DRM, protected cd's, mp3's cdwriters and the likes.

After all, stereotypical views usually have a seed of truth, no matter how cynical you are.

Re:*Exactly* (4, Informative)

angle_slam (623817) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914075)

Not really. It should be a serious concern. The RIAA probably will be over all of this like it has been all over DRM, protected cd's, mp3's cdwriters and the likes.

Why would the RIAA give a damn about this? It is a portable recording device. A simple search turns up these Roland [rolandus.com] recording devices. It's far from the first hard disk recorder and is far from the best option to do what the RIAA cares about: pirating CDs. (Not to mention that portable DAT recorders have been around for 10 years). The RIAA doesn't care about professional recording devices, only consumer-level.

Re:*Exactly* (1)

sporty (27564) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914173)

Remember, bootlegging is a culture that the RIAA doesn't like. Granted, it's not the first, but if more and more recorders like this show up, it's quite possible the RIAA will butt in.

Re:Why mention RIAA? (-2, Flamebait) (3, Funny)

L. VeGas (580015) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913957)

no kidding

Well at least they didn't say...

"Looks like a likely candidate for a Linux hack"
or
"This should be a significant challenge to the DMCA".

And the inevitable posts... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914019)

1. Does it run Linux?

2. Imagine a Beowolf cluster of these...

or a recent variant:

3. Can Apple make a profit from it?

Re:Why mention RIAA? (-2, Flamebait) (4, Informative)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914067)

"What's otherwise a fairly interesting piece of hardware has no relation to the RIAA, so it's given one to make it more interesting. "

Well, that speculation wasn't entirely baseless. In the mid-eighties the RIAA made a ridiculous stink over DAT machines, worrying about lost cassette sales etc.

I agree it was used to spice up the story (just like the terms "Mozilla, OGG, Kernel, and AMD), but I suspect the author was probably thinking about that. So no, I don't agree with the flamebait comment.

mirror (2, Informative)

kvandivo (207171) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913898)

in case micsupply.com doesn't last, purely for mirroring purposes....

[uiuc.edu]
http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~kvandivo/micsupply/722.h tm

Re:mirror (2, Funny)

LuxuryYacht (229372) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913975)


OK.... now it looks like we need a mirror for the mirror.

Re:mirror (1)

kvandivo (207171) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913986)

:) actually, I probably could have handled it, but I didn't clear it before doing it, and I don't want to be a pain for people around here.

Re:mirror (1)

Brigadoon (520066) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913990)

I've chucked my own mirror up (sans one image).

Enjoy [dingostick.com]


-DS

Two more (3, Informative)

Brigadoon (520066) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914081)

Since my server isn't exactly what I'd consider "Slashdot Effect Ready," here are two more mirrors that should be better suited for it. Be nice or I'll have to take them down.

mirror 2 [mtu.edu]
mirror 3 [mtu.edu]

Lame - You Karma Whore!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914128)

The article was cut-n-pasted far above

Re:mirror (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914242)

nice mirror stupid faggot

The way of the RIAA (5, Funny)

Gefiltefish11 (611646) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913912)


I believe that the long rang plan of the RIAA includes a mandatory international registry for all individuals with any musical talent. This is how it will work:

A RIAA Official, wearing his dress uniform and goose-stepping, will arrive at the door of any family days after it becomes apparent that a child possesses any musical talent. The child will then be promptly escorted to an officially-sanctioned RIAA retraining facility for indoctrination. This methodology will prevent the production of music by any non-sanctioned source, which could be blamed for hurting profits.

/premonition

Re:The way of the RIAA (1)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914098)

No way. The talent will not be wasted. Said doctrination will involve minor brain surgery to remove creative impulses, insertion of metal pins in hands to remove instrument playing dexterity and a few punches in the throat to reduce vocal quality.

The indoctrine will then be brainwashed with the ability to name their favourite colour, animal and pop star without a moments hesitation for use in interviews. Also inculcated will be the ability to appeal to a certain demographic e.g. the red headed minger, or the pensive (too stupid to respond quickly) groups. The indoctrinee will then be able to fulfill a full and productive life (12 months or so) as a member of a boy/girl band generating loads of revenue for the record companies selling records to naive teeagers and boring the rest of us to death.

Re:The way of the RIAA (5, Funny)

concept14 (144276) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914301)

I believe that the long rang plan of the RIAA includes a mandatory international registry for all individuals with any musical talent.

Does this mean they are going to drop most of the people who are signed with them now?

My interest is fair use? (4, Insightful)

VValdo (10446) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913920)

My interest is fair use, the ability to record my compositions and performance with studio grade equipment at a reasonable cost.

No, this isn't "fair use"-- fair use [copyright.gov] is an allowance for you to use someone ELSE'S copyrighted material for a limited purpose-- a review, an excerpt, until recently a sample, etc for certain purposes. What you're talking about is a legitimate use that gives you the SAME powers as the RIAA has for their own copyrighted works. The RIAA can claim that you might use this to infringe on their copyrights. You can argue that they may use the equipment they currently use to infringe on yours.

W

Re:My interest is fair use? (3, Insightful)

hawkbug (94280) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913996)

Right on man - I'm tired of people equating the RIAA with the government. There are plenty of other reasons to have equipment like this that don't involve infringing on copyrights held by the RIAA. It's just too bad that the average person who holds a copyright doesn't have as much say with Congress as the big guys do...

Free As In (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5913933)

"I'll copy it if I want, laws and copyright be damned!"

But when the GPL is violated there is a virtual nerd riot here on Slashdot.

Typical "something for nothing" Linux crowd.

Mod Parent "+1e10, Brutally Fucking Honest" (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5913982)

Mod Parent "+1e10, Brutally Fucking Honest"

MOD PARENT UP (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914085)

Thats the most insightful thing I've seen posted in months.

Re:Free As In (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914220)

I dare you to explain to me why wanting to record sound to MP3 or WAV is the same as wanting "something for nothing." In addition, I want to know what the hell this has to with Linux.

Just because the original poster said that this device has anything to do with the RIAA doesn't make it so.

Re:Free As In (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914248)

Yes, it has legitimate uses.

Doesn't the headline imply to you "hey we can use this to rip off the RIAA and violate copyright laws!"? It sure does to me.

The editors should be more responsible with their headlines. I know they're going to blame the person who submitted it since the editors didn't actually write the headline, but they're the ones who have the final say.

Article in case of slashdotting (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5913941)

ratfynk writes "Anybody interested in creating their own MP3 or WAV recordings should take a look at this device. It is a compact hard drive recorder that looks like it is the next logical step beyond ADAT. My interest is fair use, the ability to record my compositions and performance with studio grade equipment at a reasonable cost. This device seems to fit the bill. Specs are available at micsupply.com. This device looks so good that the RIAA might try to make it illegal." For a not-cheap but cheaper alternative, check out the updated-weekly Core Sound page on their PDA-based recorder mentioned a few months ago.

Shhhhhhh...... (3, Funny)

t0ny (590331) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913943)

If we talk about it really quiet, maybe RIAA will never find out about it...

The Underlying Problem (5, Informative)

aster_ken (516808) | more than 10 years ago | (#5913944)

I posted this in the Dr. Dre article mentioned earlier, but it seems appropriate for here, too. It's a bit off-topic, so I won't mind it getting moderated as such, but moderators, if you feel the information in this is useful then mod it up so more people will see the resources I have listed.

Yes, the RIAA will hate this.

But that is not the problem.

The underlying problem is this: we have broken intellectual property laws.

The World Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO) has taken America's already stringent copyright, trademark, registration, and patent laws and forced them upon signing members in slightly revised format.

So now all of these broken laws are *entrenched* the world over. Dr. Dre, even as huge (no pun intended) as he is, will not make a difference changing these laws any more than you or I. I've said it before, people. The only thing that will finally fix these problems is getting a *huge* player - someone like AOL/Time Warner, General Electric, or Microsoft to stand up and say, "Hey! We feel that the current intellectual property laws are stifling competition, encouraging frivolous lawsuits with exponentially too large damages, and generally causes the state of mankind's advancement to diminish. Their reach should be reduced, and their protections should be diminished." then we will *not* get IP reform.

So that leaves the average Slashdot reader three choices:

1) Whine about it, do nothing, whine some more
2) Write your congress people, consumer advocate groups, and manufactureres of IP and try to educate them on the true damage that current IP laws are causing
3) Create and support a viable alternative that will gain momentum from consumer and commercial support that eventually can replace current business models and content-creator demand

There are several projects in all three groups that have been started already. Some links:

For item 1: Slashdot.org - seriously, there's more whining on here than just about anywhere else I go.

For item 2: Please note that these links are very US-centric. As I am from the US, I do not know the laws or government structure of other countries and cannot make recommendations on who or what to write.

http://www.house.gov - Write your representative. It is their *job* to voice the opinions of their constituents (though usually they voice the opinions of whoever contributes the most to their campaign fund).

http://www.senate.gov - See above.

http://www.whitehouse.gov - Write the president. Your letter may not be read, but please try.

http://www.aclu.org - American Civil Liberties Union. These guys *try* to protect your freedoms. Try to make this an issue of civil liberties rather than commercial interests.

http://www.eff.org - Electronic Frontier Foundation. DONATE! They need your money to continue fighting our fight!

http://www.futureofmusic.org - Future of Music Coalition. They're trying to come up with a compromise. I don't know if it'll work, but it's worth the reading.

http://www.lp.org - Libertarian Party. Support candidates that support you! The Libertarian Party believes in a system of government that doesn't restrict individual freedoms.

http://www.democrats.org - Democratic Party. Write to their leaders. Encourage their platform to support legislation that would reduce the life of a copyright or encourage the rejection of software and "method" patents.

http://www.gop.org - Republican Party. See above.

For item 3:

http://www.boycott-riaa.com - Discussions on getting the RIAA out of the picture. It's not totally productive, but some good ideas have come from their members.

http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/6540 - A new peer-to-peer network that may actually get started. Developers and content-creators are especially encouraged to read this article AND the user comments.

http://www.azoz.com - GREAT site. It's the home page of the guy who wrote the previously mentioned article. More details on the p2p thing plus details on creative commons license, defeating RIAA propoganda, etc.

http://www.gnu.org - Licenses that most Slashdot readers will know. They offer freedom. Also search for "BSD License", "Open Music License", and "Free software licenses" to see other good ones in this category.

Search Google for "founder's copyright" and "creative commons".

We *need* to fight back. We *need* to stop whining and get something done. We *need* to have the "second renaissance" (and not the one in the Animatrix) where artists can create works, people can see them, listen to them, feel them, share them...

We need to be free.

Re:The Underlying Problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914273)

are you screaming for mods or what? idiot. nobody cares about what you have to say.

A better solution: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914419)

Gee. All that sounds like work.

How about if we take the approach of Havel (the leader of the Czech velvet revolution) and massively ignore the confining dictates of the overlords.

To wit: millions of us can simultaneously swap anything we choose over the internet and be unstopable because of our numbers and international diversity. We could even call it KAZAA.

The internet has forever changed the cost of organizing the many.

Re:The Underlying Problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914438)

The World Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO) has taken America's already stringent copyright, trademark, registration, and patent laws and forced them upon signing members in slightly revised format.

The WIPO has taken everything and copyrighted it, trademarked it, registrated it, patented it and forced all kinds of stupid laws upon signing (and non-signing) members ...

I just wish the WIPO troll would come back from snott hell and kicked their butts

Dude The all new iPod is better (2, Funny)

Durendal (607361) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914001)

This thing is heavy, ugly and will not fit in my pocket. Does it connect to iTunes? I did not think so! Who needs all that silly storage space and overhyped digital recording stuff anyway.

Apple products are soo much more stylish and streamlined as well. >10% marketshare cannot be wrong.

Re:Dude The all new iPod is better (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914232)

nice, apple users are too stupid to understand sarcasm. It's a troll, numbnuts!

Re:Dude, You're getting a Smell! (3, Funny)

teamhasnoi (554944) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914424)

You are heavy, ugly and will not fit in my pocket. Do you connect to iTunes? I did not think so! Who needs all that silly brain storage space when you are parroting overhyped marketing about digital recording stuff anyway.

Ner. This is hardly aimed towards an iPod user.

RTFA. Twice.

Hmmm (4, Informative)

Lxy (80823) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914003)

This device is an odd one. A professional MP3 recorder? Isn't that like saying you bought an italian leather sofa then covered it with drop cloths as not to get it dirty?

On one spec, it says:
* Selectable bit depth of 16 or 24-bit (16-bit with or without dither)
* Selectable sampling rates of 44.1, 48, or 96 kHz

Impressive, that's what most digital recorders can do. Then it follows with:
* On-board MP3 encoding at 128, 192, and 256 kb/s mono or stereo

A professional device that will do MP3, but only at crappy levels. Most high end gear encodes at 320K at least.

If you can do without MP3 support, Mackie, Alesis, and others have beautiful 24 track HD recorders that will record in 96K/32bit. Sure, it gets hefty for drive space, and it's 2U. Priced around $2K it's comparable, but offers better quality over more channels. Take your pick, but this little device doesn't seem worth the money.

Re:Hmmm (1)

swb (14022) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914069)

Pro, shmo, I'd love to have a stereo audio MP3 HD recorder, but only if its ipod sized and is suitable for recording live shows.

Re:Hmmm (1)

jred (111898) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914124)

Try the Archos units. I have the Multimedia 20, and have used it to "bootleg" some local shows. I say bootleg because I just sat at the bar & recorded, but I had the bands' permissions.

The biggest problem I had was the levels being maxed out. The sound was ok using the built-in mics, but I believe you can add external mics. I know you can plug into the board using the line-in (RCA).

Slighty larger & heavier than the iPod, but feels more sturdy to me.

Re:Hmmm (1)

extra88 (1003) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914251)

How about the Archos Jukebox Recorder 20 [archos.com]? I haven't used one, I just found this when a professor was asking about something to do field recordings (I actually suggested the Multimedia Jukebox for her because she wanted a place to put her digital photos and you can buy a memory card reader for the Multimedia Jukebox). It's not iPod sized but it's still pretty small.

The specs say this can do up to 160Kbps encoding. I read a user comment somewhere that the built-in mic tends to pick up the hard drive noise but it has "Stereo Digital Line In/Out, Stereo Analog Line in" and you probably wouldn't use the built-in mic anyway.

Archos's Ondio [archos.com] is even smaller than the iPod and can record up VPR 160Kbps MP3s through line-in. It has 128MB Flash memory instead of a hard drive but is expandable with MultiMediaCards. You might not be able to make it through one show on just the 128MB but certainly could with an additional MMC. Again, I haven't used any of Archos's stuff, I just came across it on their web site.

Mp3 isnt its main intended use. [was Re:Hmmm] (1)

saitoh (589746) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914174)

I see the mp3 encoding only as an added benefit/feature and the line right above it which says "record to uncompressed wav" as being its intended use.

Also, you figure this isnt much bigger then 2 hdds stacked together since the XLR imputs are about the size of a quarter (maybe slightly smaller) and the two imputs take up a little more then 1/3rd of the end of the unit.

As I see it, this is as the post stated and the next step in DAT recording for the field (as many of those features listed will/could be used in field taping) and not a "pro mp3 recorder".

Page

Re:Hmmm (1)

caino59 (313096) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914181)

read the rest of the text...

it also does uncompressed audio too..in 96/24, which isn't bad.

it's just that directly to mp3 is a nice feature, especially if you want to quickly distribute the files, great for someone who freely trades their music.

now i know everyone wants to see...say it with me now...OGG support...hah.

that's supposed to be funny....
*looks down, and walks away*

Re:Hmmm (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914421)

just some thoughts....

but this little device doesn't seem worth the money

little, until you consider field recording.

for field recording, the size is right, because lugging around a 24-track HD recorder is just not an option at music festivals at remote locations (say, 8,000 feet in the colorado rockies - http://www.nedfest.com). you want something that's relatively small. i've seen some of these units you mentioned, and they're a little large for my taste.

another problem with larger units is the power requirements. smaller units can be run off smaller (and therefore more portable) power sources, which is a good thing, especially if power in the venue in which you are recording is sketchy or unavailable.

i agree though, the price point is a little high. one of the better portable DAT recorders (the TASCAM DA-P1) sells for around $1200. when these units hit that price point, i'll probably consider buying one.

and i agree with you on the mp3 option - who cares. if i'm going to record at 24/96, the last thing i'm going to do is create an MP3 for it. i'm gonna leave it digital on a particular medium and use an outboard A/D converter that can handle those bitrates for playback.

my biggest gripe is that i've seen this all before - these devices always get advertised, but they never actually seem to get created. terminal vaporware. ugh.

stephen

Why would they hate that, how about ... (3, Insightful)

binaryDigit (557647) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914022)

It's a very expensive product geared towards the professional. What the RIAA would REALLY hate would be an iPod with SPDIF inputs and the ability to connect to other iPods via firewire. You could then connect your cd player directly to your iPod and then transfer directly from iPod to iPod, all without leaving the digital domain and with no lossy compression.

Re:Why would they hate that, how about ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914231)

No shit. To avoid that problem, I'm not going to tell you about the $600 product with a 40GB hard drive that's getting great field reviews and has all those features.

Re:Why would they hate that, how about ... (1)

Glonk (103787) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914235)

It's a very expensive product geared towards the professional. What the RIAA would REALLY hate would be an iPod with SPDIF inputs and the ability to connect to other iPods via firewire. You could then connect your cd player directly to your iPod and then transfer directly from iPod to iPod, all without leaving the digital domain and with no lossy compression.

The FireWire version of the Nomad Zens allow you to transfer from Zen to Zen with the latest firmware.

Uhh..cost effective? (1)

flyneye (84093) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914028)

My interest is fair use, the ability to record my compositions and performance with studio grade equipment at a reasonable cost

for thousands less,couldnt you just build a good desktop system with a wide choice of hardware and software and even operating systems(hey,DeMuDi is getting close i understand)
If portability is important,perhaps protools and a laptop.Even building a lunchbox computer would be cheaper.

RIAA nightmare? (1)

autopr0n (534291) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914035)

What, this would make it slightly more easy to bootleg concerts. Why the hell would the RIAA care about that?

They're worried about faster then real-time exponential distribution (i.e. file sharing to everyone quickly).

It's not like concerts are hard to bootleg. Whoever made this thing has a wrote this thing has a serious ego problem.

Doesn't matter. (4, Insightful)

supabeast! (84658) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914037)

Wow, cheap recording equipment for the low-budget musician without a G4.

Unfortunately, it still won't produce the kind of album you get from a multimillion dollar staff of producers and engineers, and those are the guys who really make albums that sell.

Re:Doesn't matter. (2, Informative)

mcpkaaos (449561) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914260)

Plug this... Presonus Firestation [presonus.com]

Into your PC running this... Cubase SX [steinberg.net]

Hey super, you now have the same recording capability as many studios claiming to run ProTools HD (which your million dollar studio is most likely running.) And before you holler about recording quality, lemme tell you that it's 90% engineer, 10% equipment, and I'm being generous to the equipment.

The cost? Under a grand if you don't buy at Guitar Center. ;) I think I paid around $500 for the Firestation and $340 for Cubase SX.. both new and in the box. And you don't even need pre's for your mic.. the Firestation has nice tube preamps on channels 1 & 2.

The best part? You don't need a mac. Sorry mac users, it's true. Thanks to firewire the PC has caught up. And before someone starts shouting Digi001 or Digi002 and the omnipresent ProTools or the venerable Logic Audio... the only real difference between the production suites anymore is interface and editing tools (and *not* sound quality, no matter what you're told.)

Just my opinion. :)

--
mcp.kaaos

Sweeeeeeet! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914048)

* 1394 (FireWire 400) port for high-speed data transfer between local disks and computer. CF and internal drive appear as FAT32 volumes
* Serial port (future expansion)


screw the firewire! I am gonna transfer that data over the serial port!

Re:Sweeeeeeet! (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914092)

The serial port could be 20 times faster than the firewire for all you know.

Firewire is serial too.

Re:Sweeeeeeet! (1)

FuzzyBad-Mofo (184327) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914377)

Yeah baby, bring on the 115200 bps goodness! I'm sure that leaves this so called 'firewire' in the dust. What's that, IEEE-1394 transfers data in excess of 1Gb/s? Err..

I've been following this... (4, Informative)

WookieOnTheRun (603172) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914052)

Ok, there are some problems with both of these units. I've been following their production from the get-go as I work within the audio industry. First off every single thing core sound has made in the past is CRAP. Poorly made, known to occasionally damage audio gear and so on. Look at their sony 7 pin cables. They are horrible. On top of this these units arent ready for their intended purposes. They are supposed to be for live concert audio recording, however at 24/96 or 24/192 neither unit can handle over 2 hours of recording (most live shows run over that). If I want to record in 16/44.1 Ill go back to using my DAT's.

Re:I've been following this... (3, Informative)

jokell82 (536447) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914165)

You seem to be mistaken about a few things...

First, the devices are not made by Core Sound, they're made by Sound Devices. Core Sound was only mentioned because of their PDA recorder which was mentioned here recently. And yes, generally their products are crap and most of the time they're just vaporware, never even being released.

Second, they are not limited to two hours of recording. They are, however, limited to 2 gigabytes for each wav file, but this is a limitation of the format, not of the device. It appears that the devices also record in .bwf files, which they state are uncompressed. I assume that this is to get around the 2 gig limit.

Most of us that do record live concerts think that they have excellent potential. The only reason anyone is thinking twice about them is because of the preamp built in and whether or not it's at the same level as a MiniMe or a Lunatec V3.

Re:I've been following this... (1)

WookieOnTheRun (603172) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914308)

Well both allow for a digi in which renders the pre needless. Its a progression but for the same money I can have a laptop and a motu or a multiset or even one of the emagic convertors and have a much better piece of gear.

So is pro-level MiniDisc or DAT recorders... (3, Informative)

questionlp (58365) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914063)

that ignore SCMS or any other form of "copy protection" scheme that they have put in place in the consumer version of the products a nightmare for the RIAA? I don't think so... it would be a nightmare if pro-level equipment are mandated to have such restrictions!

I think the device is a progression from DAT, just like how there are hard-drive modules for DV video cameras as another storage device to store recorded data. Tape is fine, but not if you need to record long sessions or need to be able to work on them using NLE or audio tools without having to do some form of DV tape or DAT tape to file transfer as an interim step.

Question (2, Insightful)

gazbo (517111) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914066)

Why would the RIAA, representing the biggest labels and by extension artists in the world, care about you recording your hilarious retro-arcade techno with William Shatner samples over the top?


They wouldn't. The RIAA care about you stealing songs on P2P. Digital recording has been around for a long time. However, there is the question of how you will position the microphones, indeed what types of microphones to have in order to capture the true sound and the room's ambiance. Assuming this is done to a satisfactory standard, who is going to produce it? Oh, right. You. Because as we all know, you are a polymath capable of performing, recording and producing. Oh, you didn't realise that mastering was a step either? Ah well. It's not like anyone's going to be listening.


So I rambled a bit - the point is, this is nothing to do with the RIAA except that they are both associated with music.

Re:Question (1)

anubi (640541) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914149)

I think what the RIAA is afraid of is that they will go through all this trouble, buying off Congress to pass all this law to require DRM technology in all consumer stuff. And all the negotiation and working with Microsoft to incorporate all sorts of crypto-shit in their media players.

Then have the consumer connect one of these to the analog audio-out connector, or across the speaker connection, neatly bypassing everything they've lobbied for.

Kinda like the surprise the homeowner encounters when he buys all the latest security for his front door, and the burglar slips in through the bathroom window.

ADAT has already been killed by 24/96 sound cards (1)

blueworm (425290) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914079)

ADAT was dead a long time ago, you should use an ASIO compatible 24/96 sound card with software that supports it.

RIAA? Gimme a break (4, Insightful)

jokell82 (536447) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914106)

This device looks so good that the RIAA might try to make it illegal

This is one of the dumbest statements I've read all day. Why would the RIAA give a rats ass about this device? It offers nothing more than PC's can already do. On top of this, it is not a consumer device, so the chance of Joe Blow getting his hands on one (or even figuring out where to buy one) are slim.

This device is meant for location recording. It'll work great for those of us that record live audio, as we'll no longer have to a) carry around laptops or b) spend time converting from formats like DAT. Some people are a little weary of it, however, due to the fact that no one has heard the preamp it uses (but most assume that it's the same as the MP2).

Oh, and if you want to check out the official website and not a vendor's site, here [sounddevices.com] it is.

$2000/$4000? Why not Minidisc? (1)

jetkust (596906) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914122)

I'm no expert on audio, but I've always been interested in portable audio recording. $2000/$4000 seems kind of steep to me. What advantages does a device like this have over a much cheaper minidisc recorder with a good microphone? Anyone think its worth the money? Or are their other alternatives, like a laptop with a good sound card or something?

Re:$2000/$4000? Why not Minidisc? (1)

WookieOnTheRun (603172) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914147)

I'll tell you why not MD for recording. ATRAC compression sounds HORRIBLE. Also you need a good mic pre & a/d convertor none of which MD has. MD is greatly frowned upon by the recording industry. It is a purely low grade consumer media.

Re:$2000/$4000? Why not Minidisc? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914227)

I'll tell you why not MD for recording. ATRAC compression sounds HORRIBLE. Also you need a good mic pre & a/d convertor none of which MD has....

Horrible? to an audiofile maybe, but I don't think it's all that bad for a prosumer. in fact it serves as a kind of compressor/limiter which for non-pro people can be quite beneficial.

Why MP3? (2, Informative)

kasperd (592156) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914130)

I prefer OGG, my experience with OGG in comparision with MP3 is:
  • Faster compression
  • Smaller files
  • Better sound quality
  • Free technology
So what good reasons remain for using MP3? (Except from the tons of pirat MP3s you can download from the net.)

Re:Why MP3? (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914155)

You can stream your mp3 in realtime, and do your live internet concert.

That and noone gives a shit about OGG.

Re:Why MP3? (1)

ocelotbob (173602) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914309)

I give a shit about ogg. It gives better sound quality than mp3s, and usually gives a bit smaller filesize. Plus, you can stream vorbis files just fine. There are several places on the internet doing so as we speak. Just because you're ignorant to them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Re:Why MP3? (1)

Second_Derivative (257815) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914418)

Sorry, I'm quite sure that OGG sucks compared to MP3. Especially at low bitrates it absolutely slaughters the sound compared to MP3. I use OGG anyway, but out of ideological preference, not technical.

What this thing really needs... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914178)

...is a built in compressor/limiter. Then the amatures would grab it too. This may not produce the 'best' sound in the world but a good compressor/limiter combo would consistently produce very good sound for the hobby people (or pod people).

I can't even begin to tell people how valuable my minidisc recorder has been in recording DJ sets because of the built in compression functions like a compressor/limiter.

Nice unit.... (3, Interesting)

zakezuke (229119) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914192)

Much more in the way of jacks then for example the sony walkman dat recorder that i've experenced in the past. Not nearly so portable, and likely not nearly so quiet, but hey, looks like the perfect thing to jack into a mixing board.

It's nice to see someone designing goods that are ment to be modular. Part of the reason 4mm dat was attractive to me back in the 20th century was the fact that it was also a computer media standard and one could, in theory, pop it in a system for digital editing. Alas because of issues with the RIAA, it was a pain in the butt to get the drives though successfully upgraded the rom on a old HP unit and got something useful.

This unit on the other hand based on what I read is pretty much geared for fast transfer to a system.

I question sometimes the motive behind the RIAA getting on the case on devices who's sole purpose and design are for people who want the ability to master origional materal, rather then music pirates who use the CD. When I see this, I say, "wow, plug into a mixing board and get great recordings of live shows" something that you typicaly need the band's authoration for (well, record label and venue, but let the band fight out that aspect), somehow I suspect that it would be percieved as a great evil. Yea, the great evil the fact that professional grade recording equipment, the type you'd use to master with, is becoming lower in price and more practical for bands to actually own them selves, creating the danger of no longer needing to be signed with labels to get material out.

Whoops (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914293)

My interest is fair use

Damn... my interest is only in unfair use.

A letter from Alalgamated Motors (2, Funny)

mr. methane (593577) | more than 10 years ago | (#5914303)

(while I get really annoyed with the thieves who justify downloading music, simply because nobody's sticking their sorry asses in jail yet, now and then I do feel a compulsion to whack some sense into the RIAA. In that spirit...)

Dear Senator Fastpocket,

We at Amalgamated Motors are deeply concerned. The automobile industry is in dire condition, and immediate action is required.

Our sales have been nearly flat since 2001. While some apologists for lawbreakers might blame trivial things like a global economic downturn, big increases in unemployment, or the total meltdown of the telecom sector. We know that's simply not the case.

It's vehicle piracy, plain and simple.

We try to manufacture good cars for the public. We expect the public to buy those cars, and possibly even drive them.

But we simply cannot abide by the rampant vehicle piracy going on. It's become commonplace to see "used car" lots, where one can buy a car from an indivdual who is not us! And who - horrors - may even make a profit re-selling our good(ahem) products!

Not only that, but an entire industry has sprung up blatantly encouraging the open, shameless RENTAL of vehicles.

Surely you can't help but notice that these businesses are located near airports, and are commonly staffed by people who are suspiciously dark in skin tone. The conclusion is obvious: If we allow vehicle rentals, The Terrorists Win. No other conclusion is possible.

The only reasonable solution is more thorough strip-searches of every passenger who fails to display their own car keys when checking in. Especially those who are not wearing federally-approved plaid golf pants.

We also seek federal aid to fund a public awareness campaign against the casual "lending" of vehicles between friends and family members. It's even crept into prime-time television, where it's simply treated as common humor when a teenage boy asks dad if he can borrow the car.

Surely you can understand the dire straits(ka-ching!) our industry is in, as we clash(ka-ching!) with these nickle-and-dime, and even 50-cent(ka-ching!) criminals.

We believe that the highly publicized arrests of the entire staff of Avis, Hertz, and Budget are only reasonable.

What would be more interesting (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914338)

would be diagrams for building your own high-quality music recording device at low cost.

Another cheap alternative digital recorder (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5914455)

The Creative Nomad III costs = $299, can record 16/48 wav for hours on its 20gb drive and also supports mp3-encoded recording at various rates, sounds decent enough for mp3. Barring electrically noisy environments, its unbalanced input circuit is *very* quiet for consumer gear...running on battery with a battery-powered mic preamp, its S/N is low enough not to matter to anyone but a purist. If you want quick and cheap portable digital record and you don't have to run lots of wire between your mic and the unit or hook the thing up to any line-powered stuff, it works great. See http://sound.westhost.com/project66.htm for a preamp circuit that works well.
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