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859 comments

hmm (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926424)

how's bobo?

COCK (-1, Troll)

(TK4)Dessimat0r (669989) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926512)

ARSE (-1)

(TK2)Dessimat0r (669581) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926520)

Is it just me, (2, Troll)

pair-a-noyd (594371) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926425)

or does this smack of M$ windows???

Re:Is it just me, (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926434)

haha how so ?
What's so wrong with descriptive names ?

Re:Is it just me, (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926445)

I'm not a fan of Windows at all, as a matter of fact I can't stand it. However, it would be unwise to dismiss things purely because they are similar to how Windows implements them.

Just my 2 cents...

Re:Is it just me, (5, Funny)

Eevee (535658) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926462)

Of course it does. Using real words for directory names instead of easy to remember abbreviations is a mark of evil.

Remember, they did it just to piss you off.

Re:Is it just me, (4, Interesting)

Blaine Hilton (626259) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926469)

Anything to make Linux easier is a plus, however there is one Windows and many, many Linux distros, this is like dividing the cause. However it does provide for far more flexibility and doesn't lock you into any one company.

Re:Is it just me, (4, Insightful)

Epistax (544591) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926480)

Kind of stupid that since M$ is evil, you automatically declare everything about them wrong and anything else to be better. M$ has the most understandable file system I have ever seen. Extensions are a huge plus. Drive letters instead of arcane codes specifying various IDE devices, etc. Anyone should be able to use a computer without knowing a damn thing about it, beyond the input and output.

What I don't like about the M$ scheme is that they still wont accept "/" instead of "\", and they have a real boner for treating compressed files as directories.

Re:Is it just me, (5, Informative)

Rui del-Negro (531098) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926572)

Are there any Microsoft tools for de/compressing normal archives (like ZIP, RAR, TAR.GZ, etc.)? Maybe in XP? I just use W2K + WinRAR.

Anyway, there's nothing wrong about treating compressed files as directories (especially if they have more than one file inside them). Technically, there isn't a big diference between, say, a ZIP file and a directory with file compression enabled.

Windows' default directory structure is reasonable, but I find some of the names too long (you can change them, BTW; programs will still install in the right places). I don't like drive letters at all, I would prefer drive / device names. It's possible to implement it with shares (ex., "boot:\\" instead of "c:\"), but some programs have problems with it.

On NTFS drives you can also mount volumes as directories (ex., mount your CD drive as c:\cdrom instead of e:, or whatever). NTFS is actually quite civilised.

RMN
~~~

Re:Is it just me, (1)

Synic (14430) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926615)

sorry, but their file system is ass for anything beyond simple procedures... if you are trying to fix driver installations or uninstallations manually, or find your outlook express settings and address book to back up onto cd, then it sucks

Re:Is it just me, (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926487)

I don't think it's you...
Why on earth could one want to change a fine hierarchy that's been there for eons into something that would require either a gigantic $PATH variable or something like a /usr/bin with symlinks to all programs?
You don't want to change your $PATH for every application you install, and if you have a central pool of symlinks you really should place your applications there instead of only symlinks..

Who cares about the directories? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926523)

The longer filenames is the least of its worries. It looks some like a BBS coder did the shell colors (hint: white -> light blue -> cyan does not look like a "fading blue" or even good). At least they have a terrible looking logo and webpage (look! cubes!) and have to apply a "patch" to the kernel for Konquerer to read the new filenames... and after all the work that was done on the font system for X they chose the worst looking blocky fonts for the screenshots. WTF?

Re:Is it just me, (4, Insightful)

phoxix (161744) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926601)

Have you ever used OS-X ?

It has a similar file system structure.

I believe that if we really want to have an OS dedicated to the masses, this very much is the direction to go.

Apple wouldn't bet their company on the same concept if they didn't didn't believe it as well.

Sunny Dubey

Re:Is it just me, (1)

pair-a-noyd (594371) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926602)

Troll, I think not.
I'm asking a legit question.
The directory naming conventions noted here *look* just the same as M$..

Re:Is it just me, (1)

Overly Critical Guy (663429) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926614)

No, it smacks of idiotic dollar signs in company names.

How dare a company make money. That is so wrong.

Next.

fp (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926427)

iso sucks

I want your penis, FP bitches (-1)

(TK2)Dessimat0r (669581) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926428)

-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-
P_______________________8..P
E__Bow down to the_____#~..E
N__Lord's penis_______8.',-N
I_____________________#',-.I
S__Jesus wants your__8',-..S
-__anus, and he_____#~',-..-
P__wants it NOW! ___8_',-..P
E__________________##',-',-E
N__An original_____8',-',";N
I__TrollKore(TM)_____##',-',";I
S__work of art.___8',-',";.S
-__By Dessimat0r ##',-',";.-
P________________8',-',";,.P
E_______________#'',-',";,.E
N______________8(',-',";,..N
I_____________#(',-',";,.,.I
S__________#8#8_',-',";,.,.S
-_________#',-.8',-',";,.,.-
P________8~',-..#',-',";,..P
E_______#'',-',";8_',-',";.E
N_____8=',-',";.+#+',-',";.N
I____#=',-',";,._8',-',";,.I
S___#=',-',";,..(#',-',";.8S
-__8(',-',YOUR,.(8',-',";s#-
P_8(',-',MOTHER";#',-',-s8_P
E_#z',-',LOVES,";8',-..s#__E
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I_#.##',-DEARLY,";~8,8#____I
S_8##',-+~'',-',-~#'8______S
-_#.,..-',-',";.'=8#_______-
P_.8+_',-',";,.'88_________P
E___888',-',";~8___________E
N______8#888#88____________N
I__________________________I
S____.oO TrollKore Oo._____S
-_At the head of the game._-
P__________________________P
E___irc.freedomirc.net_____E
N_______#trollkore_________N
I__________________________I
S__________________________S
-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-

All you cock-loving fuckers out there, here is a special treat for you bastards, take a look at this knob. NOW SUCK IT, MOTHERFUCKERS!

You are not logged in. You can log in now using the Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal the convenient form below, or Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal

FP??? BWHAHAHAHA!!! FAILING TROLLKORE FAGGOTS! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926488)

# Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic.
# Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads.
# Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.
# Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.
# Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)
# If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.

Oh, good! (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926430)

I was just thinking this morning, "Man, all these Linux distributions are too similar. I wish someone would come in and fuck up the Linux filesystem hierarchy so they could really set themselves apart!" It's like the angels were listening and hand-passed my suggestion up to the heavens. Thanks!

Figures (4, Funny)

Blaine Hilton (626259) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926431)

It figures that as soon as I about have the file system understood they come up with a distro that uses a more normal setup...

--
Need to calculate [webcalc.net] something?

Re:Figures (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926447)

There is nothing normal about it.

Re:Figures (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926467)

There's no such thing as normal anyway. This one is just more intuitive.

Re:Figures (5, Funny)

FauxPasIII (75900) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926505)

>> This one is just more intuitive
Not if you're used to the old one.
At least there's no Progra~1

Looks like Darwin. Smells like gnu. (5, Interesting)

numbski (515011) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926435)

I'm surprised this is the first this type of system setup has surfaced. Using longer names is far more intuitive.
Last login: Fri May 9 23:02:15 on ttyp1
Welcome to Darwin!
[garou:~] numbski% cd /
[garou:/] numbski% ls
Applications Network automount etc mach_kernel usr
Desktop DB System bin log.txt private var
Desktop DF Users cores mach sbin
Library Volumes dev mach.sym tmp

Re:Looks like Darwin. Smells like gnu. (2, Funny)

BillKaos (657870) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926499)

[garou:~] numbski% cd /
[garou:/] numbski% ls


Sorry, it should be:

[Garou:~] Numbski% Cd /
[Garou:/] Numbski% Ls

Re:Looks like Darwin. Smells like gnu. (4, Insightful)

baywulf (214371) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926517)

Except that for a command line user, longer names mean more typing. In Windows 2000, we have "Documents and Settings" as the base directory for users. Not only is it long but it has spaces which complicates the typing. Yes I know there is tab completion but it still can be a problem when names start the same way.

Re:Looks like Darwin. Smells like gnu. (1)

semanticgap (468158) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926534)

The tab-key completion feature of bash (and some other shells) comes in really handy in this situation.

Re:Looks like Darwin. Smells like gnu. (3, Informative)

zephc (225327) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926543)

this is why you type out part of the name, then hit [TAB] to autocomplete the name. I use it in the OSX command line all the time.

Re:Looks like Darwin. Smells like gnu. (4, Interesting)

daviddennis (10926) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926565)

You also have My Documents and My Pictures, which means annoying exercises with double quotes.

On the Mac, we have Documents and Pictures, making that unnecessary, and tab expansion can happen at the first letter. So longer, self-explanatory names can work well if the original developer isn't boneheaded enough to use names not unique at the first space.

D

Great Idea! (2, Funny)

Lu Xun (615093) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926436)

While we're at it, let's rename all the streets so we all have to relearn how to get where we want to go! Excellent!

Re:Great Idea! (1)

realdpk (116490) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926475)

obOfftopic rant on streets

I'd be all for renaming all streets from names to numbers, or to at least reorganize them so they're alphabetical. It's completely non-intuitive to have Pine, Pike, Union, University, Seneca, Spring, etc. (Seattle's only saving grace is that the streets are paired, downtown, (PP, UU, SS).

Edmonton (1)

s20451 (410424) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926568)

You should move to Edmonton, Alberta. The streets are (nearly) all numbered, with "streets" running north-south and increasing in number to the west, and "avenues" running east-west and increasing in number to the north. So, for example, 1st street and 1st avenue is in the extreme southeast corner. 100th street and 100th avenue (where they started the numbering system, giving themselves room to expand) is downtown. Edmonton is large enough now that they have to go with a directional system to expand to the southeast (e.g., 5th street NW, etc.). If you're paying attention, it's virtually impossible to get lost.

While on this topic ... and I can say this because I grew up there ... this probably happened because Edmonton is utterly bereft of heroes, so there's nobody to name things after. One of the most major traffic arteries in town is Wayne Gretzky Drive, after the hockey player who won four championships with the Edmonton Oilers. (Imagine Chicago changing the name of a major highway to Michael Jordan Boulevard.) Before that, for decades it was called the Capilano Freeway, since Capilano was the name of the construction company that built it. The names of other highways in town are the "Yellowhead" and "Whitemud", which I believe have aboriginal significance.

Re:Great Idea! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926489)

Or just use VARiable names like %SystemRoot% or %Programs% etc. Who cares where theyre stored? Shortsightness on youre part.

Are you running WHINE? (1)

Rui del-Negro (531098) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926492)

What do you care if people in a different city have different streets? It's not like anyone's forcing you to move there.

Come on now.... (0, Offtopic)

sethadam1 (530629) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926501)

Apparently, with the current "streetnames," only .1% of people know how to get there right now. Why not make the directions readable so the rest of the world can share too?

So a script is a setting? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926438)

See subject. This may be a fun exercise for the programmers. Don't expect it to catch on, though.

FUCKING DUPE (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926439)

This was already posted on K5, like, one week ago. Slashdot is so fucking behind the nooze.

Hmm... (1, Funny)

vidnet (580068) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926440)

/System/Settings/BootScripts/Reboot, /System/Devices, /System/Status..... Is there a /Winnt/System32 too?

Re:Hmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926578)

actually it is very reminiscent of Mac OS X / NeXT.

Re:Hmm... (1)

UU7 (103653) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926590)

Why would there be ?

SQL FS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926441)

plz?

Re:SQL FS (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926465)

Good thing about SQL core file systems is that you can have any god damn view you want, want to make it look like unix? not a problem. Define youre own View. Linux lagging behind? forsure. BeOS and now Longhorn have SQL cores.

Re:SQL FS (1)

SilverSun (114725) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926519)

mod parent up!

This is probably the most insightfull comment possible to this thread.

3 comments and nearly /.ed (5, Informative)

evilviper (135110) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926442)

First Link:

Differences between GoboLinux and a traditional Linux system

Once you installed GoboLinux, your experience will be greatly improved if you are aware of the following facts... :-)

* In the GoboLinux hierarchy, files are grouped by their functional category (executables, libraries, and so on). There are links at the classic directories you are used to (/bin, /usr/bin, and so on), but remember that they all point to the same place. This is a huge advantage, as it means, for example, that you'll never have to search for a library throughout your filesystem again -- it will always be in /lib (and in /usr/lib, because they point to the same place! -- no worries about compatibility).
* A little known UNIX rule states that what defines the superuser is its user id (which is zero), not its name. Through the years, there has been a convention to call the superuser "root". In GoboLinux, we chose to choose the superuser's name. It's called "gobo". It's fun, less ambiguous and even a bit more secure (since most crackers will try to login in your machine as root, you can setup a dummy, easy-to-break "root" account that will serve as a cracker-trap). In any case, if you wish to change the superuser's name back to "root", it is easy to do so.
* There are symbolic links relating most of the usual UNIX directories to the GoboLinux tree. Therefore, you will find directories such as /etc, /var/log and /usr/bin in the expected places. However, some directories, such as the users' directories, didn't need to be linked to their "legacy" locations. This way, for a given user called "joe", you'll have, instead of /home/joe, /Users/joe. Notice also that the superuser's directory is no different than the ones from the other users, so, gobo's directory is at /Users/gobo. Mount points are under /Mount, not /mnt.
* Another major difference between GoboLinux and most Linux distributions is that it does not use a BSD nor a System V initialization procedure. Instead, it has its own. At /System/Settings/BootScripts you will find a few files that command the entire boot procedure: Init and Done run at system boot and shutdown, respectively; Single and Multi are used after Init for initialization of single-user and multi-user modes. Halt and Reboot are used after Done for each specific kind of finalization. The Options file separate site-specific settings from the rest of the scripts, and Tasks serves as a function library.

Second Link:
Overview

GoboLinux is an alternative Linux distribution which redefines the entire filesystem hierarchy. In GoboLinux we have paths such as /Programs/XFree86/4.3/ and /System/Settings/BootScripts/Reboot. Like it? Read more...
News
It's official: GoboLinux 006 is out!

May, 9th, 2003 at 1:05

Five months after the first alpha version, GoboLinux version 006 is now the official stable release. There are too many improvements to list here, the greatest ones being /System/Links/Shared, FiboSandbox, and last but never the least, GoboHide. As usual, the ISO is compiled for i686 and is a "live CD" so you can try out GoboLinux without actually installing it, so you have no reason not to check it out. :)

Existing users don't need to reinstall from scratch (actually the idea is to never have to reinstall from scratch!). An upgrade mini-HOWTO will soon be posted on our mailing list.
To-do list: ideas for the future

May, 2nd, 2003 at 17:04

GoboLinux is all about cool ideas. A lot of them float around in the mailing list, but end up buried in the archives. Now gobolinux.org has a place to store them, with an optimistic name of To-do List. It is part of the documentation section.
New GoboLinux webpage up

April, 30th, 2003 at 20:50

As you have probably noticed, the new webpage is up. :) Not everything is already PHPified ("Latest packages" is still updated manually) but work progresses really well. Stay tuned on the mailing list: 006 will be posted Real Soon Now.
GoboLinux to appear at SICOMPI 2003

April, 4th, 2003 at 17:14

Hisham Muhammad and André Detsch will do a talk entitled "GoboLinux: revolucionando a estrutura de diretórios do Linux" ("GoboLinux: revolutionizing the Linux directory structure") at the Univates University, this April 14th, as part of SICOMPI 2003. The fundamental concepts will be presented, as well as a live demo of the system in action.

We hope to have 006 ready by then, or at least a release candidate. There's a lot going on in the GoboLinux camp, so stay tuned!
New GoboLinux directories

April, 4th, 2003 at 17:13

The last two legacy directories were removed from the GoboLinux root. Now /proc is a symlink to /System/Status and /dev is a symlink to /System/Devices.

MOD THIS MUTHAFUCKA DOWN: KARMA WHORE!!1!11!!!!!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926458)

See subject. This fuck should be bitchslapped.

Brace yourselves (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926446)

Brace yourselves for all the posts from Mac iDiots saying "bah, Apple invented the word 'Programs', this is just a bad copy of Mac(ac)OS X".

Case Senitive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926456)

I wonder if the designer of this filesystem has
ever used a shell with case senseitive filesystems

Not the mentions the case problems that it could cause trying to make programs more portable.

At least i know i wont be using it.

Finally! (5, Insightful)

TwistedSpring (594284) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926457)

I've always held that the filesystem organisation in linux is the primary reason that new users find it hard to get to grips with. Names like etc, bin, var, usr, are meaningless to newbies, and novice users can get confused with /usr/local/share vs. /usr/share Hopefully gobo have also sorted the Installing-a-program bomb-blast, i.e. as soon as you install something it scatters a million files all over the filesystem in different directories that makes it impossible to keep track of and (sometimes) impossible to completely remove if you compiled it rather than used a package manager. It's about time this was re-vamped if linux is to become a viable desktop OS.

Re:Finally! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926510)

No no , we are too busy PRETENDING to be Unix rather than a REAL OS, dont be stupid. Thats too user friendly.

Re:Finally! (3, Insightful)

TwistedSpring (594284) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926585)

There's definitely a certain amount of fear of change being exhibited by the linux users who've posted before i did. Linux is an evolving OS, if you don't let it change it'll never have the chance to be what you want it to be; a windows-beater. Personally I use windows 2000, though i did spend half a year with only Linux installed on my machine, and I administer linux and BSD servers. My dad recently installed Lycoris [lycoris.com] linux, and it looked like a step in the right direction. I don't advocate Linux as a good desktop operating system, it simply doesnt have the application base to compete yet, what it does have is a lot of applications that nearly do what the commercial apps do, but don't quite. This is mostly due to a shoddy windowing system (X) and a nonstandard way of programming for window managers (do you use QT, or GTK?).

Do you want more people to use Linux or not? Or are you happy to be an elitist group who prefer to keep linux usage Your Secret. If you pride yourself on being able to navigate the Linux filesystem, maybe you should learn some new skills, like being able to adapt to change.

This post was not directed at the Anonymous Coward above, it's just general observations prompted by his sarcastic response :)

Re:Finally! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926539)

That's interesting? Umm..ok... that's why Microsoft MAKES you click on "show the contents of this folder". Face it, the conception of "electronic" files v. hard files in a cabinet is SOOOO far removed for most people, I have to wonder about the human species.

Re:Finally! (2, Insightful)

mdfst13 (664665) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926597)

I think that this operates rather backwardly. Instead of making /bin a symlink to some new directory, it would make more sense to make a conglomerate directory that includes the contents of /bin, /usr/bin, etc. One can do this comparatively easily in a GUI environment (or in a database filesystem--it's just a matter of query structure).

There are several problems with symlinking all */bin directories to another directory. First, some of these directories are put in different places for good reason--/usr/bin for system apps, /usr/local/bin for locally installed versions that may clash with system apps, ~/bin for user apps. The /opt structure exists to separate out packages so that they don't conflict with other apps (like GamBas and Gaby do by default). If you put them all in the same directory, you are stuck with name clash again. Further, /bin, /sbin, and ~/bin usually have different file permissions. For most desktop users, this is unnecessary, but do we really want a different underlying file system structure for desktop distros than for server distros?

I would rather that all versions of Linux retain the same underlying file structure. Any changes that need to be made to make it easier for people to understand are better made at the view level rather than the functional level.

That said, I do think that it is good that people are starting to think about how to make file systems more understandable for newbies. I just don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Keep the good; replace the bad; add enhancements. That's improvement.

mixed case = bad for shell (3, Interesting)

kstumpf (218897) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926459)

I think capitalized letters in directory/filenames in a unix filesystem is inherently annoying. Personally, I'd never go along with something that slowed down the efficiency of tab-expansion when working in a shell.

Re:mixed case = bad for shell (5, Insightful)

Hanji (626246) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926592)

Perhaps you're looking at it incorrectly. It seems to me that the real solution would be to make tab-expansion case-insensitive. I'm not saying that this is practical, but case-sensitive filesystems and paths really only add a major annoyance to a system, rather than any great benefit.

If anyone knows a reason why case-sensitive paths are a GOOD thing, please respond. I really would love to know - they just seem annoying as hell to me.

Re:mixed case = bad for shell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926599)

Tab expansion that doesn't recognize filenames independently of case (if there is no users, try Users), is stupid. I love the windows tab expansions since i don't have to worry about case..
IMHO this is one of the reasons unix looks so confusing: everything is lowercase since it's easier to type, even though mixedcase IS easier to read.

STFU (-1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926461)

Reading most of these preceeding comments, why is everybody so "offended"? Linux (and open source in general) has borrowed many of their ideas from Microsoft, so why stop now? Is renaming and re-organising the basic file structure so awful?

Enough (4, Interesting)

krumms (613921) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926466)

This is enough to make those cheering on Linux standardization sit down and cry ;)

Re:Enough (1)

paranoidd (575058) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926563)

Actually not, GoboLinux can still use the "standard" tree, as they are available (hidden) as symlinks. So, we have /bin -> /System/Links/Executables, /lib -> /System/Links/Libraries, /usr/bin -> /System/Links/Executables and so on.
That is, they can sit down and cry, but there is no need to do that :-)

Filename extensions (1, Troll)

fejrskov (664451) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926470)

What could be really nice is to come up with a standardized way of discerning directories, executables and other files by name.

One of the only thing Gates did right from the beginning was to enforce file extensions, thus enabling a user to know that "this is a directory, this i can't execute". On Unices nobody can really tell.

Re:Filename extensions (1)

pair-a-noyd (594371) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926498)

/program = directory
program/ = directory
program = file (probably)

Re:Filename extensions (3, Insightful)

rusty0101 (565565) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926552)

which is not what 'ls' displays. 'ls -l' will, but then you have quite a bit of other stuff showing up in the list. Colorization can help, but someone has made some really lousy color choices along the way.

Perhaps it is just me, but Yellow on White, and DarkBlue on Black just don't strike me as wise color combinations considering that a significant portion of the population will have trouble seeing one or the other, and possibly both. I know I have problems with these combinations.

Visually adding an astrisk '*' after an executable is also handy.

-Rusty

Re:Filename extensions (1)

Hanji (626246) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926606)

Try ls -F. If your ls doesn't support it, get a new one.

Re:Filename extensions (1)

krumms (613921) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926503)

ls -l If there's an 'x' in there somewhere you can run it - assuming you have access to it. Otherwise, you can't. If there's a 'd' in there somewhere, it's a directory. ;)

Re:Filename extensions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926551)

Ummm... NO... by default Windows hides file extentions... This is no different then the Mac file headers.

ls (1)

neurostar (578917) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926559)

ls --color

Files show up green if executable, blue if a directory, red if a compressed archive...

(colors may vary with mileage and linux distribution)

neurostar

Re:Filename extensions (2, Insightful)

SilverSun (114725) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926562)

This complete BS. cyphering any kind of metadata into something stupid like a three letter file extension is a very stupid idea, even for Bill G.! (it wasn't his of course)



Every half decend FS developer knows, that modern FSs will be databases (see BeOS, Longhorn, etc...)
This makes arbitrary hirachies like the one proposed by GoboLinux guys superfluous and offers a natural way to attach all necessary metadata to a file (like _if_ it can be executed, or what program might be able to open the file, who is allowed to do what with the data and of course inwhich category the file firs)

Re:Filename extensions (3, Informative)

Zak3056 (69287) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926607)

One of the only thing Gates did right from the beginning was to enforce file extensions, thus enabling a user to know that "this is a directory, this i can't execute". On Unices nobody can really tell.

Err, what do you mean "no one can really tell?"

If the file has an execute bit set, it's probably executable. If the file has a directory bit, it's a directory.

Yeah, you need to understand the system before you can use it, but learning that system is trivial.

drw-rw-rw- tells you everything you need to know.

similar but different to OS X FS changes (1)

w3weasel (656289) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926474)

Users/
Mount/ => Volumes/
What's in a name anyway, these changes are cosmetic, and simply result in extr ln -s populating the directories. I'm not sure if this 'change' is sufficient to make this distro distinctive.

I will have to use this... (1)

rickthewizkid (536429) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926481)

...since my servers are named after the Fraggles [henson.com] ...

gobo is my mailserver, boober is the fileserver, boober is my printserver and red is my web surfing machine.

Just my 2-radishes-worth...
RickTheWizKid

Nice idea (2, Interesting)

Dalroth (85450) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926484)

Nice idea, though not really new. I frequently use my own directory structures on my systems to organize things better.

My only comment: the directories should be lowercase. Why? Because it's easier to type, no other reason! :)

Bryan

Close but not quite. (1)

Eevee (535658) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926532)

The OS should be case-insensitive. Nobody in real life thinks that 'Cat', 'cat', 'CAT', and 'cAt' are different words; why should they be different file names?

Re:Close but not quite. (1)

PeterClark (324270) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926575)

Actually, I like case-sensitivity. Directories begin with a capital letter, files with a lower case. ls then sorts everything out so that capitals (directories) are listed first, and not sprinkled in with the files. Very nice.

Re:Nice idea (1)

paranoidd (575058) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926616)

Fortunately, GoboLinux (ZSH, actually) handles by default this: just press p, tab, and you're there in /Programs.
Now, are you ready for trying it? :-)

Make it like Windows. (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926490)

Maybe we should have a file system like Windows, such as: /XFree86 /Program Files /Documents and Settings

etc...

It would sure simplify system adminstration for those coming from a Windows background. Do you know how confusing for a newbie it is to see directories like /bin /sbin /usr/local/bin /usr/local/sbin /etc /lost+found ??!!! It's so confusing trying to figure out what goes where. And when they ask for help, someone tells them to just do a "rm -rf" in the root directory. Brilliant!! Part of Linux's problem is its insane file structure. Even I can't find things sometimes, or at least wonder why in the world some things are where they are. Couple that with the fact that every distro sticks things in different places and you've got a real mess on your hands. Just look at the state on fonts on XFree86. Why do we need so many font directories?

Re:Make it like Windows. (1, Redundant)

krumms (613921) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926521)

Even I can't find things sometimes

If you're arguing that 'Its hard because its not like Windows.', then no wonder.

You sir, are clueless. (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926588)

It's this type of attitude that keeps Linux away from newbies and wanna be converts. The poster wants to make things simpler for the 95% people of the world who, by their own choice or not, use Windows and are the most comfortable with it. You, by your own admission, state that the Windows file system is easy to use, but then blast the poster for wanting to make Linux easier in the same way. The Windows system, while not perfect, works quite well. The Linux world, however, is obsessed with reinventing the wheel, unconvinced that something they didn't invent could possibly be easier or better! Oh, I'm sorry... I guess I forgot that Linux forever has to have a steep learning curve. That way the Linux elites can feel special about their skills and fluant them over other users. Meanwhile, all along they proclaim how the demise of Gate's empire is just around the corner. Get real!!

No, make windows more like unix (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926594)

Hey we were here first!

Both arguments are stupid. They are different for a reason.

That said however, I DON'T agree that we need to drift away from the Unix-ish standard for Linux type distro.. that is only asking for incompatibilities and troubles.

Bad, Terrible Idea (4, Insightful)

evilviper (135110) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926497)

This is a terrible idea... It makes a complete mess of the Unix filesystem, just so that the distro maker doesn't need to edit /etc/ld.so.conf to include /usr/lib as well as /lib

The only minor problems I have EVER experienced with libs/headers is that some will install themselves in a subdirectory, and software that uses it expects it to either not be in a subdirectory, or expects the subfolder to be in the LD/C/CPP path. That is easilly fixable, and this distro doesn't address that issue at all.

Hey, why make a mess out of the Unix filesystem anyhow??? If you want is a bit less complex, throw in a few symlinks. No need to cause all sorts of #%@^ to happen with this type of hack.

Re:Bad, Terrible Idea (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926527)

Its NOT Unix, its Linux, you wannabie :)) Spoon to remove youre head from youre rectum sir?

Re:Bad, Terrible Idea (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926596)

Hey, why make a mess out of the Unix filesystem anyhow??? If you want is a bit less complex, throw in a few symlinks. No need to cause all sorts of #%@^ to happen with this type of hack.

First of all, Linux has already made a mess out of the Unix FS. Seriously, after using FreeBSD (which hasn't gone for the 'Oooo, this bit of SysV is shiny! No, wait, lets mix in this bit of 4.4BSD. Oooh! Pretty colours!' approach which seems to be popular in the Linux world) for a while I now cringe when I have to use Linux again.

Secondly, throwing in a few symlinks is more or less what they have done. Everything is still linked to /bin, /lib etc (although not having a separate /bin and /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin is just plain wrong on a networked system. Next thing they'll probably by popping all of the /sbin tools in /bin... unless they have already and I didn't read that bit)

Glad! (1)

cronostitan (573676) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926511)

Oh yes.. i think this could be some real step forward to make Linux more accessible to the 'normal' low-end user... I am looking forward to more positive changes like that with further evolving of Linux distributions...

I like it, but.. (5, Interesting)

_aa_ (63092) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926525)

in other locales will the directory structure still be in english?

Conspiricy (1)

mlush (620447) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926529)

By making the layout different from other distros, GoboLinux effectivly locks in its users to its (and derived) system by denying them skills transferable to other Linux's

Does this matter? Probably not either people will use it (and at a wild guess there the sort turned off by the cryptic Linux argo and thus new recruits to Open Source) or it will be road kill on the information superhighway

So F'ing What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926608)

It's not the responsibility of a distro builder to teach you to use Linux or, even moreso, teach you to use another Linux distro.

Certainly, OS X doesn't teach you to use FreeBSD. Is that a problem?

For all those who ask, "Why?" (5, Interesting)

PeterClark (324270) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926533)

I say, "Why not?" I think this is a great idea; I'm all for a better directory structure. Just because the present system has been around for 30+ years doesn't mean that we shouldn't take a second look at it and see if it can't be improved.

Now would anyone care to guess how many knee-jerk posts there will be, like "if you like a sane directory hierarchy, use OS X, ya weenie!" or "if it's not broke, don't fix it!" To which I respond, where do you keep your Mozilla plugins?

  • /usr/share/plugins
  • /usr/share/netscape/plugins
  • /usr/share/mozilla/plugins
  • /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
  • /usr/lib/mozilla/1.3a/plugins
  • /usr/lib/mozilla/1.3/plugins
  • /opt/netscape/plugins
  • /opt/mozilla/plugins
  • /usr/local/mozilla/plugins
  • ad naseum...
    • Much applause to the guys who were willing to think a little more critically about what we can do to make Linux just a little better.

Will never work (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926538)

I suspect this system will be quickly snubbed by the Linux elite who actually spent days and hours learning the arcane Unix/Linux directory structure. (The "We've all mastered it the hard way, so you should too!" mentality). This mentality is so pervasive on Slashdot. Every time someone says something the tiniest bit negative about Linux usability, a bunch of people post comments to the tune of "Linux isn't for inexperienced people like you" or "Go back to Windows" etc. This kind of thinking is part o what is keeping Linux out the mainstream. What's odd is that many of these same people espouse the Mac OS X for its ease of use and simplicity of design. "It's so easy even my grandmother can use it!" they say. But if they curse their grandmother for trying to use Linux because she's not skilled enough. Huh??

Bittorrent? (1, Offtopic)

Entropy_ah (19070) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926540)

What, we give AOL a bittorrent link for animatrix but we can't help these guys out?
Anybody find a .torrent yet?

Another article... (4, Informative)

illsorted (12593) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926541)

Kuro5hin [kuro5hin.org] also has a good article [kuro5hin.org] on GoboLinux.

Security/stability? (1)

fdawg (22521) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926545)

One of things I <B>like</B> about the Unix filesystem is that all important system files are separate from user accessible files. Maybe I havent fully grasped how the current file system is setup, but I was under the impression that is the way it is to keep important files far far away from meaningless files installed from non critical apps.

What's a big deal? (0, Flamebait)

SolitaryMan (538416) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926546)

The only thing they have actually done new is initialization procedure, according to the article. Or they think that I'll set up a new system just because of new weird paths?

I guess this distro is still "Yet another... "

root = gobo? (5, Funny)

bazik (672335) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926547)

In GoboLinux, we chose to choose the superuser's name. It's called "gobo". It's fun, less ambiguous and even a bit more secure (since most crackers will try to login in your machine as root, you can setup a dummy, easy-to-break "root" account that will serve as a cracker-trap). Remember to set the roots prompt to PS1="C:\>" for the ultimate cracker-trap! :)

Standards, standards (5, Funny)

gallir (171727) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926579)

Yeah,, yeah, standards are good, you have many to choose from.

doesn't seem like a bad idea... (4, Interesting)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926583)

I know the unix file hierarchy well, but I've always thought it was arranged haphazardly. Why are there six different places for system executables? (/bin, /sbin, /usr/bin,/usr/sbin, /usr/local/bin, /usr/local/sbin)? That's not even counting the alternative directories that some programs like to be installed under like /opt, or X11 programs.

The one thing I don't like is that they renamed root to gobo. While root doesn't have much inherent meaning to it, gobo has even less. If you're going to rename root, why not pick something more meaningfull like administrator, admin, superuser, BigManWithTheTopHat, etc? I guess I haven't checked recently, but is linux still limited to 8 characters for the username?

also available (1, Offtopic)

rumpledstiltskin (528544) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926584)

Also available for purchase here [linux-screws.com]

Gobolinux: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926603)

Bringing Linux 2003 up to par with Mac OS X 1999!

cLIeNUX (1)

mst76 (629405) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926605)

There was an old and little known linux distribution called cLIeNUX which did something similar. Not sure if it's still alive though.

Straight from the horses mouth (1)

cow_licker (172474) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926610)

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/5/9/05015/62649

Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5926619)

GAH! If I wanted to use Apple's fucked up filesystem, heierarchy, I'd use Mac OS X. But I suppose as long as these idiots don't go influencing the Linux FHS, I'll be happy.

Shaken, not stirred (1, Funny)

SuperBanana (662181) | more than 11 years ago | (#5926622)

News It's official: GoboLinux 006 is out!

How appropriate- MI6's Agent 006 was a traitor.

I like my filesystems shaken up, not stirred.

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