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The War Between p2p and Record Companies Heating Up?

CmdrTaco posted more than 11 years ago | from the escalating-arms-race dept.

The Internet 562

the-dude-man writes "Securityfocus.com Reports that there may be a new nasty turn to the battle between the p2p networks and the RIAA/MPAA. recently, the RIAA has been trying to flood kazza with files that appear to be valid copyrighted material (movies,mp3s, ect) but are empty or, in one case, of Madonna Louise Veronica Ciccone, contain a voice file asking, "What the f*ck do you think you are doing?". The p2p networks are considering a possible move agianst the RIAA in response to this by using recently enacted anti-spam laws."

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A pity... (4, Insightful)

TopShelf (92521) | more than 11 years ago | (#5930997)

Almost sad to see a portion of such a large industry going through its death throes. I imagine the horse & buggy manufacturers acted much the same about 100 years ago...

Re:A pity... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931039)

Indeed. P2P networks may be largely used to facilitate copyright infringing distribution of music, movies, books etc but lately I use it for downloading legitimate files such as game demos, movie trailers, and free software updates (whether those updates are for free software, or games and other software I have paid for). P2P is incredibly useful in this regard. I don't have to register with gamespy or wait in a long queue for my download. Long live P2P. RIAA - grow up, evolve, or die.

grow up, evolve, or die (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931123)

I prefer the third option for the RIAG(estapo).

Re:A pity... (0, Insightful)

stubear (130454) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931155)

"...game demos, movie trailers..."

Regardless of their nature as being freely available teasers, they are still protected by copyright law and thus subject to restrictions as to redistribution. Being free does not mean they are not protected by copyright. I cannot use bits and pieces of the movie trailer in another work and I can't directly copy ideas from a game demo simply because they were offered for free.

The RIAA does nto need to grow up or evolve. They hold the contracts on hundreds fo thousands of artists who use the services provided by the RIAA. It is the consumer who needs to grow up. Illegally distributing products on the internet is neither an act of civil disobedience nor a reasonable, "adult" thing to do. P2P networks should be allowed to exist but if the RIAA makes a reasonable request to have material removed from the network, then the P2P network should comply. If they refuse to then they shoudl be considered as co-contributors to intellectual property violations and thusly charged and prosecuted under the law.

If this business model can be toppled by a lone guy in his garage in a legitimate manner, I'm all for it. So far no one wants to be this guy, they simply want to redistribute intellectual property illegally, thinking they are in some way helping the artists. Guess what? Artists don't see a dime until advances are paid back. Guess how advances in future royalties are paid back? You guessed it, sales of albums. If their album is being traded and fewer people are buying it, then the artist is not going to pay back those advances as quickly.

The horse and buggy analogy is pure crap though. As many are quick to state, intellectual property is not physical property and when one redistributes it, they are not stealing from anyone (this is a myth though, see above). Ford did not steal horses and buggies and sell them to the masses. He did not even mass produce horses or buggies. Henry Ford developed a way to mass produce automobiles so more people could buy them for a lot less than what other automobile makers could sell them for. Ford revolutionized an industry in much the same way the lone guy in his garage could revolutionize the music industry. P2P is not the lone guy, nor will it ever be in its current state. P2P will never revolutionize music until musicians themselves start figuring out how to use it for themselves.

Re:A pity... (5, Insightful)

gnarled (411192) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931242)

The horse and buggy analogy's purpose appeared to me to highlight the antiquity of RIAA's business model. Obviously Ford wasn't stealing horse and buggies. The point is that the business they were in became pointless and obsolete, what causedd this, piracy or new technology, is irrelavent. The music industry is also becoming obsolete, because practically anybody can record songs with qualities just as good as them. P2P abuse is simply a precursor to a paradigm shift that will change being a musician forever.

Re:A pity... (3, Insightful)

Archfeld (6757) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931262)

LOL RIAA REP IN DA HOUSE, thanks for the comment Hillary...J/K

When in a democracy, more than 80% of the people support something then by definition it should become legal. The fact that one MINORITY with deep pockets can buy the law is wrong. The new distribution medium that is the WWW REQUIRES new techniques, If the RIAA is not capable or evolving it will go the way of the DODO Bird, eaten into extinction by the very consumers they created...I love IRONY :)

Be all that as it may I agree, that STEALING music, movies, whatever is WRONG, whether you go to the theatre and video tape it or pull a runner at a store, there are already LAWS that cover these crimes, why does the RIAA think it deserves fast track treatment and special laws ? Let them go through the process just like every other entity.

Re:A pity... (5, Funny)

freeweed (309734) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931043)

Now, I know how to make a buggy. But wouldn't the horse manufacturers be.. horses?

Some mass horse extinction 100 years ago? :)

Re:A pity... (3, Funny)

Blue Stone (582566) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931254)

"But wouldn't the horse manufacturers be.. horses?"

I heard of a man down in Somerset, who tried it himself.

Didn't meet with any success by all accounts. And the judge threw him in the slammer before he could make any discernable progress.

Fscking trade protectionism. Ffttt.

Re:A pity... (1)

Uber Banker (655221) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931049)

Yeah, hope so. There is a big downside - if it 'wins' we will have much more potent versions of the DCMA, etc...

But isn't flooding P2P networks fraud? Although I am not legitimately acquiring a file, my usage is at some cost so could I charge for lost bankwidth, is it entrapment (which is a method to fool someone to break the law, giving them an opportunity they otherwise would not have?) otherwise?

This: >>> may add some perspective on this angle.

Re:A pity... (1)

Uber Banker (655221) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931098)

Took away my link... here is the link:

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/08/ 15 18247&mode=nested&tid=99&tid=123

Re:A pity... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931055)

I am so sick of this same comment on every story even remotely about music. Nearly everyone who puts music on a p2p network is providing a product of this 'dying' industry. How the fuck is cheapening a product of an industry killing it? They still hold contracts of the vast majority of good musicians in the world. Even Phish, Bob Dylan, and Pearl Jam have major label deals. There is no easier way to become a professional pop musician than by working with the RIAA. For every Courtney Love there are a thousand White Stripes.

Also, horse and buggy manufacturers were mostly local business-people. There was no Ford of the horse and buggy world, just blacksmiths and carpenters. That analogy blows.

Re:A pity... (1)

hackwrench (573697) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931156)

If you consider the horse and buggy people part of the transportation industry, the transportation industry didn't die, but sub-industries within it did. In the same way sub-industries within the music industry is dying.

Re:A pity... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931165)

There is no easier way to become a professional pop musician than by working with the RIAA.

There is no easier way to become a pathtic, victimized, penniless and abused old whore than by working for the toughest pimp. What's your point?

Re:A pity... (3, Insightful)

arvindn (542080) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931182)

The RIAA's well being (and in the long term, existence) is dependent on its tightly controlling the channels of music distribution. p2p is something that they can never hope to control. Which is why they seek to destroy it. Unless they succeed in this, there is a significant chance that the RIAA will eventually become irrelevant. So while I wouldn't say "death throes", their future is not very bright :-)

Re: but... (1)

op51n (544058) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931112)

I certainly doubt the p2p networks are going to have much luck on this line of attack, since the RIAA were given the rights to, with a court warrant, hack any user proved to have downloaded copywritten material.
I read an interesting article bringing the philosopher John Locke into the field.
The other question of course, is whether Judge's asked for the warrant, are willing to, or understand the case well enough to get it right!
Personally I think this is something that is going to go round and round in one big circle: RIAA sueing... p2p network fights back... RIAA seu someone else...
Something's bound to happen to bring it all to some sort of end, but even then I don't see p2p being brought to it's knees ever, maybe just a sort of hidden crouch.

Re:A pity... (5, Interesting)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931197)

Of around 4,000 wagon/buggy/coach makers in the 1890s only one survived to be building cars in the 1930s.

Studebaker

Other coach makers survived to build chasis and other systems for Automakers, like Fisher

Wow (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5930998)

A law got passed that could be used against the record labels?!?!

I have 20 gigs of pr0n now. (-1, Troll)

SpanishInquisition (127269) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931000)

I think it's enough.
NOT!!

Dupe? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931002)

Must be deja vu then.

About time (1)

lordkuri (514498) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931005)

Fuck Yeah... nail 'em to the wall.

It's about time they had the laws used *against them* for a change.

-LK

Re:About time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931016)

Okay but, what's their argument? 'You can only distribute copyrighted material on this network'? Neither side is going away....it's going to be a very long pissing match.

To hell with both sides, I'll get (as in buy) my tracks via iTunes from now on..

MMMMMMMMM (-1, Flamebait)

El_Froggo (566773) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931012)

Madonna is a whore anyways.

What does the EULA say? (5, Insightful)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931013)

Is there a EULA for the various p2p clients/protocols?

Does it say "do not intentionally share files that you know to be broken or files that have filenames that misrepresent their contents, doing so will result in your account being suspended/you being sued for spam" or the like?

If they have something like this then they'll have at least something to challenge the RIAA with in court (the legality of 99% of the content on p2p networks nonwithstanding). If the judge choses to ignore the terms in the EULA then it calls in to question the legality of all software EULAs.

Re:What does the EULA say? (2, Informative)

mike_c999 (513531) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931030)

Interesting thought that.

Though I beleve it's been mentioned before that the courts haven't decided if EULA's actualy count as legal contrects anyway.
After all minors can agree to an EULA by clicking "I Agree" but its not legal to enter into a contract with a minor. Therefore making an EULA agreed to by a minor invalid.

Re:What does the EULA say? (1)

m1chael (636773) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931036)

they probably have a 'we can change this at any time without your knowledge so check a read the EULA every day to keep the lawyer away, thankyou. have a nice day.'

That would be dangerous (5, Insightful)

mdfst13 (664665) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931056)

If the p2p networks claim that they have the ability to restrict what files are shared, then they will open themselves up to countersuits from the RIAA saying that they should use that ability to keep copyrighted material from being shared.

A spam charge is easier, since it says that they can't restrict files. Therefore, they need the help of the law to crack down on offenders.

Re:What does the EULA say? (1)

Saeed al-Sahaf (665390) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931136)

Well, we do know one thing is for sure, the EULA *does* state that trading in copyrighted material is prohibited.... Of course certain laws don't apply to /. ers...

I can see what would happen... (5, Interesting)

eet23 (563082) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931014)

I download a fake mp3.

I sue the RIAA for $1.00 or something

I have to spend it quickly, because the RIAA is about to sue me for $17,000.

I'm not going to be the one who simultaneously antagonises the RIAA and admits in court that I tried to pirate music.

Re:I can see what would happen... (5, Informative)

feldsteins (313201) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931037)

No shit. Let's not forget that our major problem with the RIAA is the fact that they are enacting laws and introducing DRM technologies that destroy our fair use as consumers. Our problem with them is not that they are trying to prevent us from stealing music.

Granted, they need to be in compliance with the law as they take swipes at pirates...but c'mon, they're still pirates.

Re:I can see what would happen... (2, Insightful)

moncyb (456490) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931249)

Let's not forget that our major problem with the RIAA is the fact that they are enacting laws and introducing DRM technologies that destroy our fair use as consumers.

Too many people don't get it. They are doing far more than just "destroying fair use." If they gain control with these laws and technologies, they will destroy free speech as we know it. If they can use a censorship system to stop someone from redistributing their copyrighted data, they can also stop someone from redistributing independently produced and legal to send data.

The "trusted" certificate authority organization(s) can use the crypto key registration / rejection system to censor naysayers and competitors. The "copyright holders" can use bots w/o human intervention and widen the search criteria to catch many innocent people in their trap, then claim it was an "accident" if caught. This has already been done with the DMCA. The BSA / OpenOffice incident is a good example. Microsoft's implementation will ensure only they can approve drivers and DRM programs.

In fact, I have heard talk of adding a system to reject specific files / communications so the "copyright holders" can eliminate "pirate material" after the fact. Obviously the dupes who believe DRM is designed to protect copyright will see these measures as a "legitimate" attempt to stop illegal activity.

Much more is at stake than just being able to listen to the RIAA's crappy music.

Re:I can see what would happen... (1)

An Ominous Coward (13324) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931061)

But really officer, I wasn't pirating anything. I mean, if someone put a song up to be shared, they obviously hold the copyright, or are authorized to distribute the file.

Re:I can see what would happen... (1)

spydir31 (312329) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931073)

hmm... just wondering here...
is the fake file copyrighted?
can't you legally download them?
(they can claim intent, but you don't have the actual copyrighted material, no?)

Downloading pirated music is not illegal (5, Informative)

Fastolfe (1470) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931170)

In most countries, it is not illegal to download copyrighted music. It's illegal to redistribute copyrighted music against the wishes of the copyright holder.

The RIAA can't come after you just for downloading music. You have to be actively re-sharing that music out again to break a law.

On the flip side, though, you are not procuring that music through legal/legitimate means, so you may not be granted certain protections and warranties that you might otherwise be granted, so your law suit might be tricky.

Your jurisdiction may differ, though.

Re:Downloading pirated music is not illegal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931212)

In most countries, it is not illegal to download copyrighted music. It's illegal to redistribute copyrighted music against the wishes of the copyright holder.

Are you certain? In all jurisdictions of which I am aware, copyright law gives the copyright holder the right to make copies. When you d/l a work, you're definitely making a copy of it of some sort.

Re:Downloading pirated music is not illegal (1)

cpt kangarooski (3773) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931295)

Well, there are limits.

In the US the AHRA makes it legal to copy and distribute music -- provided, however, that it noncommercial, and analog. A certain bit of digital copying is allowed, but computers and mp3s don't qualify. DAT did, OTOH, b/c it had a sort of DRM onboard.

And there are things like fair use, or rebroadcasting, library exemptions, computer software backups, etc.

Re:I can see what would happen... (1)

NickFortune (613926) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931198)

Makes me wonder if they could be had under some sort of entrapment laws - "I'm not liable for downloading this stuff because the copyright holders flooded the forum with this stuff"

I'm not a lawyer, and I'd ot reccommend anyone try it, but I'd love to see it happen. They could get dne for spam and incitement in the same day:D

Re:I can see what would happen... (1)

Blue Stone (582566) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931278)

"I'm not going to be the one who simultaneously antagonises the RIAA and admits in court that I tried to pirate music.

No, and let's face it, neither is anyone else. What this could be used for, however, is as a countersuit by someone who's already being sued by the RIAA, and who's trying to fight them... maybe.

This probably won't fly (3, Interesting)

stevezero (620090) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931018)

Most courts in an illegal contract will just leave the parties as they stand, unless one party can show less culpability such that they should be allowed some relief. The court could construe that by advertising a copyrighted work on a P2P network, that in itself is illegal, and therefore, whoever recieves that file would not be able to claim that they were defrauded by getting a fake file. While it's a nice conflict of law here, I don't think it will fly.

Must agree (2, Insightful)

OwnerOfWhinyCat (654476) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931103)

Unlike spam, you solicit your downloads by choice. If they used a bug in a P2P network to fill people's hard drives with crap unsolicited, the anti-spam angle would seem workable. As it is you solicit their system to engage in obvious copyright infringement. Your claim for relief against fraud for an for an 'unpaid' service while attempting to break the law is going to be seriously weak.

I think you'd have a better chance asking the judge to prosecute someone for selling you a joint filled with oregano. At least in that case, you gave someone money and thus (in most states) there is an implied contract of fitness for the generally recognized use of the product.

How ironic... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931021)

I spent ages on KaZaA looking for the fuck off Madonna track, filling my computer with propert Madonna material.

Madonna Remix Project (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931094)

You can find the original "wtf do you think you're doing" Madonna mp3, along with a pile of remixes at the Madonna Remix Project [madgelloland.org] .

It was amusing how she got hacked after that.... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931181)

After Madona flooded the P2Ps with mp3s of her repeatedly saying "what the fuck do you think you're doing?" somone took an appropriate response [thesmokinggun.com] by hacking her website, posting her full new album on it, and writting "This is what the fuck I think I'm doing..."

it begins... (2, Funny)

sTalking_Goat (670565) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931022)

The historians can't seem to settle whether to call this one "The Third Net War" (or the fourth), or whether "The First P2P War" fits better. We just call it "The **AA War." Everything up to then and still later were "incidents," "patrols" or "police actions."...

Re:it begins... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931125)

You only need one *, or better still, ??.

Otherwise you would also take out the Automobile Associate of America, the Automobile Association and Alcholics Anyonymous.

Don't need Kazaa (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931029)

RIAA members are going to see their sales shrink again this year. Kazaa is only one manifestation of the mp3 trading that will doom them. Many I know, don't use Kazaa, they just trade with friends via CD-R, DC++ and S-FTP.

I was driving near the airport in SF in Feb. I looked at the car next to me. I saw a teenage girl leafing through a 3-ring binder full of CD-R's with band/album names drawn on the CD-R with a black marker. With or without Kazaa and public p2p, these guys are going to lose another 10% this year.

Musicians will have to make a living from live performances.

Re:Don't need Kazaa (4, Insightful)

glitch! (57276) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931099)

I saw a teenage girl leafing through a 3-ring binder full of CD-R's with band/album names drawn on the CD-R with a black marker.

And that means what exactly? Could it be that she is smart enough to leave her originals at home where they are safe? That's what I do. If my car CD-R's get damaged by sun or careless handling, I just burn a new one from my original. I'm sure a lot of people do this for exactly the same reason.

Re:Don't need Kazaa (1)

Boss, Pointy Haired (537010) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931169)

my car CD-R's get damaged by sun or careless handling

Not to mention getting stolen - the car or just the CDs.

Re:Don't need Kazaa (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931258)

suuuuuuuuure... thaaaaaaat's what she's doing... good call!

Re:Don't need Kazaa (1)

caino59 (313096) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931122)

Musicians will have to make a living from live performances.

what's so bad about that?

well, of course, unless they suck...they will starve. i have no problem there, get rid of all the garbage out there.

I support bands I like, I faithfully purchase cd's of bands that deserve my money.

oh, and allthose cd's have been copied, and I use the copied versions instead, as it doesn't matter when the copies get scratched/destroyed.

I have lost many a CD through theft and just scratches. Lost a couple to actually just being played so much (yes, the laser eventually burned visible lines in the disc)

I've already purchased the CD, so why in the heck should I have to purchase another one?

and if i don't ahve it backed up, shouldn't I be able to go d/l it somewhere?

Re:Don't need Kazaa (3, Funny)

mizidymizark (669232) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931150)

I saw a teenage girl leafing through a 3-ring binder full of CD-R's with band/album names drawn on the CD-R with a black marker.

Yes, but the real question is, did she respond to the "Show me your boobs" sign that you have in the rear window of your car?

Re:Don't need Kazaa (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931154)

I saw a teenage girl leafing through a 3-ring binder full of CD-R's with band/album names drawn on the CD-R with a black marker.
Did you do what any red-blooded geek would do in such a situation, and whip out your wang so she could get a good look??

Re:Don't need Kazaa (5, Insightful)

keirre23hu (638913) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931293)

I hope that the lawyers for Kazaa etc... can find some means to sue.. the reason the recording industry is losing money (if thats even true) is because they have a broken marketing model... want to make money? give customers what they want and adapt to market and economic trends.. want to lose money? criminalize your customers and piss them off with "features" like DRM and CD's you can copy/play in all CD players..

This month's topic in IEEE Spectrum Magazine (4, Informative)

Cerlyn (202990) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931031)

IEEE Spectrum Magazine's [ieee.org] topic for the month of May is "Invasion of the Music Snatchers." A number of copying and filesharing attacks and counterattacks are discussed.

Many of this month's articles are online [ieee.org] , but if you are not an IEEE member you are limited to the "publicfeature" URL's.

This of course will force the networks to evolve (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931033)

Flooding networks with spam files will just result in networks becoming smarter to route around the garbage. Suppose for example that new p2p networks use a weighted reputation system where individual content files can be rated by the users of the network. Of course, positive ratings by users who have good reputations would indicate that the file is good, likewise negative ratings for a file by reputable individuals would indicate that the file is garbage. Similar to how these comments are rated on Slashdot.

Re:This of course will force the networks to evolv (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931090)

"Similar to how these comments are rated on Slashdot."

Yes, thats sure to work. What planet do you live on, I dont need to use a p2p client to use the network, roll youre own tools. Morals? What morals? As for ratings? I shall click "Hell yeah download this" on ever freaking shitty copy.

Re:This of course will force the networks to evolv (1)

sTalking_Goat (670565) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931097)

I agree. While I'm not for the death of networks like Kaaza. If this forces us to use 'smarter' networks (freenet) then its a good thing. Just like what the death of Napster did.

Um... maybe that's not such a great idea (2, Insightful)

stomv (80392) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931151)

After all, it now tells the RIAA which users are supplying "the best dope" to the p2p system.

Then now have an awfully good system to find just who to target... the users that are providing the best goods.

Imagine (bear with me) that all drug users had an online survey to report just who their favourite dealers were. Don't you think the Drug Czar would pay attention, and go after the providers of the best smack first?

Re:This of course will force the networks to evolv (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931178)

Suppose for example that new p2p networks use a weighted reputation system where individual content files can be rated by the users of the network.
Fortunately this is already happening in several P2P clients with Bitzi [bitzi.com] . Every file gets a checksum/tag, and people can rank or comment on any file they please. If you find an MP3 on say Bearshare, you just right-click and hit "See Bitzi Ticket," it opens up the browser for that specific file's checksum at Bitzi where you can see how/if it's been rated. If the file you're looking at has a negative rating or some negative comments you just skip it and try another one.

Very neat.

Re:This of course will force the networks to evolv (1)

Lu Xun (615093) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931296)

Gnutella's use of SHA1 checking seems to work well; unless the Dark Powers set up a large number of servers with the bogus files, most people will delete the fake tracks. If what you got doesn't match up with the SHA1 of most of the hosted copies, you've probably got a garbage file.

If they're going to fight back... (2, Insightful)

QuasEye (98125) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931038)

... I'd have to say that this is the right way to do it. That is to say, without destructively draconian legal maneuverings, and without illegally unauthorized access of other's machines. Besides, at worst, all this does is make it take longer to find what you want. If they want to fight back this way, more power to them. If they want to take away my right to fair use in order to prevent so-called piracy, then they're seriously mistaken if they think I'll support them in it.

It's their own customers they're risking alienating. If they fight fair, they'll win, and deservedly so. If not, then there will be consequences. It's as simple as that.

This isn't new. (2, Interesting)

/dev/trash (182850) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931042)

I used to do this a lot when you had to upload 2 songs for every one you downloaded via ftp.

That's because you are fucking scum (nt) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931139)

nt= you leeching son of a bitch

Yes, you are lucky I am not god for a day... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931189)

leaching peice o'shit

explain this to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931044)

what im wondering is why these "corrupt" files are a threat to p2p. how can they they propogate on something like kazaa? seems to me bogus files would be deleted by the user in an instant.

Re:explain this to me (4, Interesting)

the-dude-man (629634) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931079)

you really havent been on kazza much have you?

I've backed up my home directory, all my software devlopment stuff..and docs...totaling about 650 megs after bzip...i gpg it with a 4096 bit key...then name it blade2.dvd.rip.avi and share it on kazza...ii did that 2 months ago and when i do a search for it i still find it on peoples shared folders..for some stupid reason people just dont delete stuff that turns out to be bad more often than not.

Ah well...kazza makes a great backup system

Re:explain this to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931108)

True BOFH style :D I like it...

Re:explain this to me (1)

Luigi30 (656867) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931145)

True BOFH style would be one that makes your computer send porn images of your wife to the entire office and send 100 copies to The Boss and The CEO...

Verified downloads (4, Informative)

Knacklappen (526643) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931046)

KaZaA Lite has a webpage with verified downloads [kazaalite.host.sk] (seems to be under construction, right now). Or just google [google.com] . That simple.
Despite this, there is a rating system in KaZaA Lite.

Re:Verified downloads (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931162)

Despite this, there is a rating system in KaZaA Lite.

Yes but it isnt worth shit. I downloaded an "Excellent"-rated copy of a Zwan song only to find it was a 10 second repeating loop for 3-4 minutes.

Re:Verified downloads (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931214)

I downloaded an "Excellent"-rated copy of a Zwan song only to find it was a 10 second repeating loop for 3-4 minutes.

Sounds like a description of most "pop" music to me.

This will just accelerate the development of (4, Insightful)

defile (1059) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931048)

...P2P trust model infrastructures.

It looks like the RIAA/MPAA are driving innovation, for a change.

Insults now? (1)

WildBeast (189336) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931051)

"What the f*ck do you think you're doing?"???

I guess when the RIAA doesn't have any arguments, insults are the next best thing.

bring it on (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931052)

Oh ya the cold war between riaa/mpaa and geeks is getting hotter!

You can't win.

Dude... (1, Interesting)

Faust7 (314817) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931065)

"What the f*ck do you think you are doing?"

Isn't that harassment? Kazaa is so far a legal program. Until it's declared otherwise I don't think I should have to deal with obscenities screamed at me by one group that doesn't like what I'm doing.

Re:Dude... (0, Troll)

Kizzle (555439) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931235)

What would you say if someone walked into your house and started stealing shit, are you going to say "please mister, could you be so kind as to not steal my stuff, thank you. Oh and by the way what do you think of this weather"?

Didn't think so

Re:Dude... (3, Insightful)

egomaniac (105476) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931251)

Until it's declared otherwise I don't think I should have to deal with obscenities screamed at me by one group that doesn't like what I'm doing.

Ironic, isn't it, how quickly we forget about the First Amendment when it's somebody else's speech being protected instead of our own?

Asking somebody "What the fuck do you think are doing?" is not in any way, shape, or form illegal. So yes, you do have to deal with them saying that. Why is this country so hellbent on destroying the idea of free speech?

Remixed (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931074)

The "what the fuck" clip has already even been remixed. The site with the links for that is here [anti-dmca.org] .

A screenshot of madonna's hacked site can be found here [curlio.com] .

Equitable Estoppel (4, Insightful)

cperciva (102828) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931075)

Any legal action taken by the P2P companies against RIAA would fail under equitable estoppel (aka. the "clean hands doctrine").

If the networks were simply being flooded with random garbage, they might have a case. But since the complaint is one of misrepresentation -- that the files appear to be valid copyrighted material -- the P2P networks clearly do not have "clean hands" with respect to people searching for those files.

Serves em right (5, Funny)

santos_douglas (633335) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931078)

I just can't feel bad for anyone who intentionally tried to download Madonna 'music'.

should have known (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931092)

I guess i should have known that i was getting a fake file when i had 175 users. Oh well it was new weird al so no major loss =]

It's about time! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931095)

It's about fucking time they did this. I was thinking of this myself about a week ago....I was attempting to download the movie "Identity" which only took less than an hour using Kazaa with my cable modem.

I couldn't find the real one at fasttrackmovies.com [fasttrackmovies.com] or their forum [fasttrackmovies.com] , so I had to guess at which one would be the real one. I tried twice and they were both fakes.

Man, was I pissed. I started thinking about the waste of bandwidth that had just occured and wished these fuckers would get nailed for spam.
I finally got it off of Bit Torrent, but how long before these motherless sons of bitches start poisoning the BT files as well?

What the f*ck do you think you're doing? (3, Funny)

SurgeonGeneral (212572) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931102)

I was watching Celebrity Justice of Fox (I know, I know) and apparently the person saying that line on the music files is Madonna herself.

Its dissappointing that people in the music industry dont seem to understand the concept of free advertising...

I'm torn.... (2, Insightful)

Bobman1235 (191138) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931107)

On the one hand, you really can't FAULT the RIAA for trying to do something, but on the other hand the route they're taking amounts to essentially vigilante justice. Whether you think people SHOULD be allowed to share music or not, they AREN'T at the moment, so (technically) should be "punished." It is not up to the RIAA to dole out this punishment, however. What they're doing is also wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right (my mommy taught me that, happy mother's day to her).

Madonna... (3, Funny)

jeffy124 (453342) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931119)

Madonna Louise Veronica Ciccone

Wow ... you mean to say someone has figured out her last name?

A plague on both their houses... (4, Insightful)

jpellino (202698) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931128)

The RIAA should stick to legit services like Apple has started and stop the electronic goosing - it's hardly the high road.

The P2Ps should 'fess up, at least to themselves, lose the weak arguments (95 percent of what they claim as justification) and realize they are in fact trading in illegal-by-contract goods and should be grateful they're around this long.

Theyre really just treading water in "it's-only-illegal-if-you-get-caught land. Silly basis for an industry.

And remember, for the most part, you get what you pay for. It doesn't matter how scammed the traders get, and it doesn't matter what the RIAA does, it won't stop them.

A fair and well-managed system will. When it's reasonable, people will pay and use just like books. The VCR didn't kill the video rental or sales industry, and the copier doesn't stop a single sale at Borders or B&N. Granted digital copying makes things easier, and the ecoonomics helps, but that's what needs to be in the new model. Most people with most traditional media would rather have a legit copy than a pirated one.

Give me a break (1)

CanadaDave (544515) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931129)

First of all, the RIAA has been doing this (flooding Kazaa with fake music files) for ages, at least a year, so this is not new news. Anyone who uses Kazaa a lot knows this. Secondly, what they are doing is not spam. It has nothing to do with email, and besides, it is solicited. When you search for "dave matthews band" and you get all sorts of "dave mathews band.exe" and "dave matthews band.html" which are all 16kb in size, you asked for it. And really, if someone else wants to create such a file and share it, that is their choice. By using Kazaa and performing searches, you have to expect this sort of thing (lots of bad hits from searches). Apple's music service will not have this problem, but of course Kazaa is free, and illegal, so what do you expect?

Re:Give me a break (1)

HeadbangerSmurf (649736) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931167)

What I find interesting is that alot of the stuff I've downloaded turns out to be pre-release demo versions of the songs. I mainly download modern rock and the stuff I'm looking for is usually brand spankin' new. I actually enjoy getting them because they really show the direction the song has taken from idea to finished product.

On that note though, who is supplying these demos to the p2p networks? The bands? The record companies? It sure isn't anyone who buys stuff from the store and rips it for all to share. Makes you wonder if one hand is feeding the networks while the other is trying to choke them.

Tom

Re:Give me a break (2, Interesting)

CanadaDave (544515) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931236)

In your 2nd paragraph, it sounds like you're touching on a point that was made about the software industry before. And that is, that without software piracy, many software companies would not be around. Take for example, Microsoft. Would their software be as popular today if it weren't so easy to copy their software and give it to friends. Michael Cowpland actually admitted to this on camera once. He said that Corel would not exist if it weren't for software piracy, giving them free advertising.

I think you are saying the same thing about music. That putting files on the sharing networks can actually HELP the music sell in stores. And this is so true. Early demos are either bootlegged, or the artist probably recorded it, and make a bunch of CDs. Eventually they get spread somehow. I've seen a lot of weird, old Pink Floyd CDs in used CD stores. Strange demos, live recordings, etc.. Also, on eBay there are a lot of old demos, live stuff, etc.

Re:Give me a break (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5931172)

When you search for "dave matthews band" ... you asked for it.

Indeed. Dave Matthews Band gulps choad. His voice makes my fucking sphincter constrict, and I think his Gap-clothes-wearing, suburb-living, socks-with-sandals fans should be relocated into camps for orderly disposal.

Madonna clip (2, Funny)

jred (111898) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931131)

I loathe Madonna's music, but I really wanted a copy of her saying that, I don't know why. I looked, and I couldn't find a fake song of hers on the Kazaa network.

Does anyone have a file name & size to look for?

Billboard Top 100 (5, Funny)

Snork Asaurus (595692) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931135)

1) What the F*ck Do You Think You Are Doing? - Madonna
2) F*ck Off and Buy the %$#^*@! CD - Metallica
3) We Don't Want Your P2P - Hillary and the Shylocks
4) ...

In other entertainment news, a startling shift has occurred in Madonna's music style as the lyrics to her latest #1 single are found to be far less offensive than usual and the song far more musical in general.

Is it just me... (5, Insightful)

teutonic_leech (596265) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931142)

... or is the RIAA getting real desperate? It amuses me that their broad 'onslaught' of lawsuits against P2P networks, downloaders, uploaders, etc.. as well as more 'creative' activities such as these envisioned to battle illegal copying of shared digital media had almost zero effect on its proliferation. P2P file sharing is alive and kicking and I just bought myself a brandnew Sony car radio that - big surprise - also plays MP3s (what irony I might add). UPS is also in the process of delivering my shiny new KISS DP-500 from Europe, which plays DVDs and - you probably guessed it - DivX and Xvid files as well (and it has an Ethernet port - droool ;-)
So, I really wonder what the RIAA's vision of the future is - obviously they are paying a lot of people (i.e. lawyers) very high consulting fees to come up with something to preserver their 'interest' (pun intended) - and this is the BEST they can come up with? LOL
Seriously - a friend of my and I came up with a working, commercial P2P digital distribution model 3 years ago, that would kick illegal copying to the curb since it actually rewarded people for downloading. We actually pitched it to the usual suspects and got laughed at. I'm actually surprised that noone has replicated our effort up to this point - maybe I'll pick up on it when I'm done with my current company.
Maybe Rosen should buy herself a copy of 'Sun Tsu' (a book about the art of warfare which predates the bible) - and I quote: 'fighting a protracted war against an overwhelming and resourceful enemy should be avoided at all cost.' It is time that the RIAA fesses up to its evils and relinquishes these silly stabs against P2P downloaders - they just wind up pissing off their greates asset - the kids willing to pay good money for concerts and 'affordable music' (Rosen: re-read the last sentence three times).

IT IS ON!!! (2, Funny)

oaf357 (661305) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931148)

Hell yea, use the anti-spam laws to counter the effects of the DMCA. That would be so ironic. The RIAA can choke.

I hope when it comes down to it... (1)

onelin (116589) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931173)

The battle between RIAA and P2P users actually bears some fruit. As the rules for engagement become dirtier and dirtier, I hope people see the sad shape the industry is in and the need for change is recognized.

I'd love to think all of this fuss will wake people up to the fact that the current music industry is incredibly flawed. At some point I hope some artists unite and stop going through the RIAA.

Sadly, in today's world I wonder if any good change will ever be realized... at least Apple's music service is a good start. It's too bad that at 128Kbps in AAC a lot of audiphiles won't bother with it.

Making Music Purchase Easier (2, Insightful)

GrimReality (634168) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931186)

Maybe, in the long run, instead of wasting money on P2P control (in the short-run they should continue it), they could bring all the participating record labels together and make purchasing music easier. At the same time, they should push a campaign about how morally wrong it is to pirate songs. (Of course, they are already doing it, but this should go together).

Music labels working together could make custom CDs and, maybe, even DRMed music downloads (for MS Win and Mac users at least) from across music labels. This is especially beneficial for custom CDs.

For instance, I want songs A, B,...,K. Songs, E and G are owned by Klingons while songs F and K by Romulans. The rest are owned by the Borg. Furthermore, except for songs A and B, all other songs are from different artists or different albums.

A good part of P2P users are probably doing it because they find it difficult to buy 200 different CDs in which more than 65% of the songs are not what you want.

Thank you
GrimReality (The Idiot [slashdot.org] )
2003-05-11 16:51:54 UTC (2003-05-11 12:51:54 EDT)

Submitted this 2 weeks ago (-1, Offtopic)

Wehesheit (555256) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931196)

When madonna's website was hacked I submitted a story about the bogus files

Fair enough? (2, Interesting)

WanChan (548461) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931215)

To be honest, I can't see how the RIAA is acting wrongly in this instance.

But if they're allowed this solution, they shouldn't be allowed legal redress as well, or their response would be disproportionate. I would hope that the courts would and will recognise this in their considerations.

But seriously, I can't see how this does anything other than shift the rules of the game back to the way they were: copying between friends was fine (and will still be better - and faster - than it was in the cassette days), but the wanton copying between people who have neither met nor would care to will decrease as the costs of copying in terms of time and effort increase.

Kazza? (1)

arvindn (542080) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931216)

Why is kazaa spelt as kazza in the story? Is it an honest spelling error, or is it the result of being indoctrinated by reading slashdot that "*AA is evil" ?

Sorry, couldn't resist :)

Misdirected Content (2, Funny)

Veovis (612685) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931227)

What about the movies that are family titles that are actually cheap pornos, maybe they are behind that as well!

Do what Guster does... (1)

dont_chase_windmills (656673) | more than 11 years ago | (#5931245)

My favorite band of about 6 years, Guster, has a very nifty little system for music sharing. They're releasing a new album come June 24th, Keep It Together, and they've released all of the songs on Kazaa, but replaced the lyrics with "meow"'s, the songs are all labelled with the actual name, but have no voice.. Just Brian, the congeuro, using a "meow mix" machine that produces different pitches of "meow". It's been great though, because you get to hear the excellent instrument work, and the sound of the album... just to wet your wistle. They also released 5 of their new songs on their website in Flash formats... While I have already recorded them to WAVs and then encoded them to MP3 (for my personal use on my MP3 player), it will prevent most music listeners from ripping the songs from Kazaa or other P2P networks. Mike
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