Beta

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Lanlink Linking The Coasts

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the wlans-across-america dept.

Wireless Networking 340

Dan Bricker writes "A guy in Parma Heights, Ohio has a website to promote an idea of linking the east coast to the west coast using standard off-the-shelf 802.11 equipment. He is aiming for a July 4th, 2006 first coast-to-coast ping. This project appears to be totally volunteer based, With no other stated reason than fun with pringle cans and bad weather, and do it just to do it. Can this be done? What real world applications does this have?"

cancel ×

340 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

w00t (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951707)

w00t to #grasshoppers from teh sweedz0r!

Re:w00t (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951720)

W00t my ass, you punk ass mofo.

Vanilla ice IN THA HIZOUSE.

Though I ain't rollin' on the fp, I be rollin' like an OG.

My beats stay fresh, like supercomputing on a mesh.

Yeeeeeh. Keep the beat strong.

Eminem is a punk ho. Kim was hella fine, tho.

Vanilla ICE.

Re:w00t (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951741)

Mr Ice: Could you please tell us more about your forays into mesh supercomputing? I have heard through the grapevine that you've recently been working on extremely low-latency networking over gbit ethernet networks, writing a customized linux kernel driver to do so-called "negative one" copy networking. (Somehow more efficient than zero copy? I don't understand the details..)

Anyway, I think that we would all find it *extremely* enlightening for you to fill us in on the 411, if you will, about your recent efforts. Your side references to "supercomputing on a mesh" are just tantalizing. Please, satisfy us, as you apparently have satisfied Eminem's ho Kim.

Your #1 fan,
Alan Cox

Re:w00t (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951765)

You dumbfuck, COCKS: NetBSD has had negative one copy networking for 3 years now. Too bad you're too clueless to understand "algorithms", driver-monkey. To think that you believe that zero copy is the optimal case. I'm so disgusted that I can't even take the time to explain to you how completely wrong you are. Unbelievable.

But hey, if it ain't in linux, it must not exist, huh?

Re:w00t (-1, Troll)

theo2520 (654444) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951790)

wait, who is Mr. Ice? and you do know that negative one exists on BSD, right?

huh, that's funny, the PHP-Nuke is holding up better than whois...

Re:w00t (0)

theo2520 (654444) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951813)

Darn it, my parent got modded negative, I'm seperated from my parent, and my negative one on BSD got posted at the same time as a dozen others... Karma Gods, please have mercy on me...

What "real world" applications??? (3, Interesting)

immanis (557955) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951708)

How about, for starters, the number of open hotspots this could generate?

Re:What "real world" applications??? (4, Informative)

Soko (17987) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951854)

Read the last paragraph.

Requirements - May not at any point attach to the real Internet. To be part of LL, a member must abide by any rules or guidelines laid out. In order for a project of this magnatude to work, there must be standards and rules followed.

He's trying to set up a network, not an ISP. There are myriad reasons not to connect this project to "The Real Internet", both legal and technical.

Your hope of open hotspots for WWW surfing and hacking etc. will likely go un-apeased by jumping on this network, unless of course it proves so popular that it becomes a "Second Internet".

Soko

Re:What "real world" applications??? (5, Funny)

spoco2 (322835) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951927)

"Second Internet" - Man, how cool would that be... a completely underground (reverse pun intended... gettit... it's overgrou... oh never mind) Internet, detatched from the 'real' one...

In case of an all out war, the 'real' internet may be shut down, but this air based one could keep on keeping on... although without electricity after the war, only as long as all the laptop batteries lasted... so really only about 1 hour after the strike... just long enough for the users to start a thread:
"Woh! What was that?"
"Dunno... kinda bright though"
"Dude... I think this is bad"
"Yup"
"BBFN"

Re:What "real world" applications??? (4, Interesting)

immanis (557955) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951968)

Reality: Assume the project works. They get it done, have a party, and so on. Then what? It's either put to use, or mothballed. And all those people with all that equipment will want to do something with it. Making a hotspot is a natural move.

And even if it is put to use, for what? A private community? People will be all over this network like white on rice, rules or no. It may not be connected to the internet by a member, but someone will hook it all together.

Or, say the project fails. You've still got the same situation, but if anything, with more drive. You've got lots of people, with lots of equipment, who are stinging from failure. Setting up a hotspot would be a natural move toward some sense of "Well, at least I accomplished something.

Reminds me of the mid-1980's (4, Interesting)

dorzak (142233) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951711)

I was a Junior High student when they proposed hands across America, and it was stated it was impossible. As I recall it came off mostly intact. I seem to recall some guffaw about a gap or two, but in general it happened.

Question: Can we, the geeks, mobilize as well as that? My own sedentary nature tends to lead me to be pessimistic.

Re:Reminds me of the mid-1980's (4, Funny)

TopShelf (92521) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951743)

I truly think that the geeks of America could do this. After all, they wouldn't have to actually stand next to each other, just within a hotspot radius...

We went to Hands Across America (1)

billstewart (78916) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951768)

Sure, it was silly, but it was a fun thing to do. And besides, we'd recently spent an evening sitting on our roof looking at Comet Kohoutek being totally lame, so it was nice to have *some* big event happen :-)

Re:Reminds me of the mid-1980's (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951793)

Damn. I post [slashdot.org] within five minutes or so of the story going up, and I'm incredibly redundant:(

My wife joined in. She lived in Kent, OH. Plenty of dirty hippies to reach across that town.

Re:Reminds me of the mid-1980's (5, Informative)

km790816 (78280) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951794)

I have never heard about Hands Across America (probably because I was 7).

Anyway, here's a link for those that were drinking out of juice boxes in 1986.

http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id248.htm [tripod.com]

It's hard to believe that such a thing was possible.

LANs Across America (1)

0xdeadbeef (28836) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951875)

I think it's a beautiful idea... *teary-eyed*

Re:Reminds me of the mid-1980's (5, Funny)

RJHill (309414) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952009)

So...um...this would be called LANs Across America?
/me ducks and runs for cover.

I just had to click on the poll on the linked site (-1, Flamebait)

Delta-9 (19355) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951714)

...and vote "Waste of Time."

Not only that, but I don't give this PHP-Nuke too long before the ./ effect takes control of it.

PHP-nuke ans a /.? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951792)

Granted a simple PHP-nuke load takes more bandwidth then a simpler layout (by about 100kb), it has nothing to do with a potential slashdotting. It be all about the pipeline my networking challenged brother.

Not legal with the pringle cans, but... (3, Informative)

BrianRaker (633638) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951717)

The problem with the pringle cans is that you get too much power out of the can, over the FCC maximum for unlicensed users on the band (ISM 2.4GHz). If you were to get a bunch of Ham radio operators, it might be more feasable.

Re:Not legal with the pringle cans, but... (1)

W2NAF (668462) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951748)

I wouldn't mind participating in this! Because some of the 802.11b channels fall within the ham radio bands, there are already a number of amateurs experimenting with this new medium... 73 de Nathaniel

Re:Not legal with the pringle cans, but... (1)

citdude (671496) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951821)

i am curious as to what we are allowed to do to our wireless access points. i'd imagine we can transmit up to 100 W (if we really need that much power) on the right channels but how do we know which are acceptable and which aren't? and if anyone knows how much increased power at the base station end actually increases performance, that would be good to know too KF6AUF

Re:Not legal with the pringle cans, but... (2, Informative)

div_2n (525075) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951874)

For point to multipoint (access points) you can have a 4 watt EIRP in the 2.4 band (802.11b & g). Point to point (bridge) in 2.4 you can have 8 watts.

In 5.3 ghz (802.11a) you can have a total of 1 watt EIRP for point to multipoint. I _think_ you can have a total of 2 watts for point to multipoint. The same goes for 5.8 ghz.

Re:Not legal with the pringle cans, but... (2, Interesting)

Dylan Zimmerman (607218) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952019)

Well, I could conceivably go as high as 1500 W (Amateur Extra). However, since they _don't_ want to kill everyone within 50 miles, 50-75 W with a good antenna is probably enough.

The lower channels of 802.11b fall into ham radio bands. We're allowed to go from 2.39-2.45 GHz and I can't find any power restrictions for licensed operators.

AC5ZH

Re:Not legal with the pringle cans, but... (2, Insightful)

div_2n (525075) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951847)

For point to point on 802.11b you are allowed 8 watts of EIRP. Since the strongest radio you can buy is 200 milliwatts. Unless you are using an amplifier that means you would have to be getting over 16dbi gain on a pringles can.

What is the dbi gain on the pringles can? Even if it was over 16 dbi you could always use a 30 milliwatt card. Then you could have up to a 24 dbi gain on your antenna. I seriously doubt a pringles can offers more than 24 dbi gain.

not necessarily true (5, Informative)

_avs_007 (459738) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951860)

It depends on what the gain and such is of the antenna. With an omni, maybe, but with a wave-guide cantenna you are probably safe.

See here for details [80211-planet.com]

Besides, I think this is definately more doable that hands across america. With the possible exception of the rockies/cascades etc, just set up some cantenna's, and aim it off into the horizon. With GPS and such, it should be easy to coordinate. A handful of people at each horizon, should do it... How far away is the horizon anyways? I know I can see the buildings in downtown from here, and its like 20 miles from here.

Re:not necessarily true (4, Informative)

div_2n (525075) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951886)

Anything that is going to go 10 miles plus will REQUIRE to be on a tower. The fresnal zone will not allow you to go the horizon on the ground. If you get high enough you could easily go 50 miles or so point to point with 8 watts. You could possibly get up to 60 or 70 but that would require some gargantuan towers to overcome the curvature of the earth and ground obstacles.

Re:not necessarily true (4, Informative)

afidel (530433) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951962)

If you want to calculate the height you will need Cisco Aironet has a nice calculator that allows you to figure out all sorts of things like tower height and power settings. One of their vendors has a version online Here [winncom.com]

To answer the post: (4, Insightful)

Hollinger (16202) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951719)

Yes. No. I would think the time and effort could be better spent trying specifically to get broadband (or at least WiFi) net access to rural areas.

Re:To answer the post: (2, Interesting)

RealityMogul (663835) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951852)

There's 3,000 miles between coasts. Lets assume that somebody jumps on board for every 1 mile stretch. How far would 3,000 people scattered across different service areas for cable and phone service get in petitioning for broadband?

Re:To answer the post: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951861)

Once the network is complete and hooked up, that's exactly what we'll have.

Re:To answer the post: (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951879)

I would think the time and effort could be better spent trying specifically to get broadband (or at least WiFi) net access to rural areas.

... Which is controlled by mega-corporations like AOL-TimeWarner, SBC, Verizon, etc. If we are content to let them lead they're going to lead us back into passive activities like television. The Internet is already moving in that direction. Servers are prohibited on the vast majority of broadband providers' networks meaning that you go back to being a consumer relying on others for content. Most people can't afford the costs of colocating with a large Internet provider who in turn ends up peering with these mega-corporations anyway. We must take back control of the Internet and ensure there is always a grass-roots alternative to capitalist greed.

Warchalking (4, Funny)

Entropy248 (588290) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951723)

is now obsolete... And I just spent the past 15 minutes learning all the stupid glyphs!

You all are fags. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951726)

Eat shit. No, seriously. This is not a troll. You all really do like to eat poo.

Re:You all are fags. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951858)

Bah. It says "troll."

Hence, you are a troll.

It is you among the other trolls that eats shit.


Thank you, goodnight.

In case of slashdotting... (1, Informative)

macshune (628296) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951730)

LanLinkup - The Great Experiment

Welcome! - Here is what we are all about:

Purpose - A project of this magnitude will undoubtedly take on new meanings and visions as hurdles are passed and obstacles are overcome, but today, the purpose of LL is to setup a wireless lan infrastructure in the homes of average people that spiderwebs and interconnects coast to coast using store bought wifi equipment and not at any point connect to the real Internet. A successful test of this experiment will be to ping remote hosts the farthest that is possible.

Why - Imagine, more privacy, free long distance, and no charge for Internet usage - that anyone can use, managed by volunteers. Can an experiment such as this shake up the telecommunication industry any more than it already is? This "Great Experiment" as a whole is not owned by any single individual or company. You own your own equipment and therefore are a part of the great link, in essence, your own ISP.

Who is the GE? - It's you, if you decide to participate. This is not a commercial venture but a venture in resourcefulness and education. By joining, there is nothing financial to gain. You are a volunteer and volunteer your own hardware and time. At the moment, there are no standards for this idea set in stone, mostly just ideas. I would like to formally request that those with networking backgrounds (ie Networks admins and engineers, etc) and/or wisp experience who are interested in getting in at the grass roots level of this project to contact me at once!

Timeline - By mid May, I would like to have hammered out a routing plan, lan ip block assignment, have a general idea about how things will be done, and have a growing population.

Requirements - May not at any point attach to the real Internet. To be part of LL, a member must abide by any rules or guidelines laid out. In order for a project of this magnatude to work, there must be standards and rules followed.

Re:In case of slashdotting... (1, Offtopic)

Stranger4U (153613) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951786)

Speaking of slashdotting, has anyone ever tried to slashdot Slashdot? I mean, how many websites have been brought to their knees by Slashdot readers? Isn't it about time to show Cmdr. Taco and all the others what it feels like? I propose a planet-wide convergence of geeks with large bandwidth to slashdot Slashdot! Who's with me?

Re:In case of slashdotting... (0, Offtopic)

standsolid (619377) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951845)

are you proposing we plan a DoS attack against slashdot intentionally? ummmm

Re:In case of slashdotting... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951911)

people just don't get the slashdot slashdot.org jokes anymore...

Re:In case of slashdotting... (0, Offtopic)

macshune (628296) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951928)

Well, I think Slashdotting as it is now, is still in the realm of:

"Sucks to be you. Your servers should have been better prepared."

If you solicit geeks to help you crash a well-loved website, then I think it enters the realm of a DoS attack. Not to mention what calls of mutiny must do to your karma.

How about you solicit geeks to write a how to on how to avoid a slashdotting with apache or something. Load-balancing sounds pretty tricky to me, but maybe I've just never tried it before.

it's SO crazy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951736)

it JUST might work!

(my keyboad 'r' key is boken)

I don't know about you people.. (3, Insightful)

peculiarmethod (301094) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951737)

but this absolutely would be percieved as the first step towards a public controlled public broadcast venue for news.. and seeing as how the beiggest complaint in politics amongst the general public is the lack of interconnectedness between the east political environment and the west coast equivalent, I would see this as a milestone towards an ultimate goal of broadcasting bills, propositions, votes, general news, as well as the future forms of blogs.. i see this as not friv, but profoundly progressive and long due.

pm

Re:I don't know about you people.. (2, Interesting)

michaelggreer (612022) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952033)

I don't see how the Internet doesn't already provide this "interconnectedness" you say is so progressive.

He'll need lots of volunteers... (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951739)

Average range for a 802.11b base station: 150 feet
Distance between west and east coasts of the US: over 2000 miles

thats what a cantenna is for... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951888)

Should boost range to a few miles

For those who are too lazy to do the math: (1)

CreateWindowEx (630955) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951894)

That works out to

2000 * 5280 / 150 =
70,400 volunteers

Re:He'll need lots of volunteers... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951909)

Umm, with line of sight and a decent antenna, a 100mW or even 30mW 802.11b radio will do better than 150 feet.

East is East and West is West... (1)

mnmlst (599134) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951745)

and ne'er the twain shall meet. This is a probably going to work out as well as the Babelfish idea in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. The East Coast is practically another Galaxy to those of us on the West Coast. Putting up an extended LAN ain't gonna change THAT!

In other news... (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951746)

A group of amatures has decided to prevent future energy problems in California. The plan is to route extension cords, connected serially, to California from a power plant on the east coast. When asked if the extension cords could handle the force, they said that it wasn't for everyone, mainly a proof of concept. They made no comment to the argument that there wouldn't be hardly any current left in California. They are taking donations of extension cords of all kinds. "Just as long as it has a ground pluggy thing"

Real world (-1, Flamebait)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951749)

What real world applications does this have

I think a lot of psychiatrists would be interested in getting contact details for the volunteers/future patients who get involved in this little bit of lunacy.

very difficult... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951750)

Ok, as we all know there are some pretty desolate regions of the US. Now it would be possible to throw a bunch of routers in the middle of the desert, but they would have to be battery powered or something. The most significant problem would be getting everything to work correctly without even a single down router. Assuming each router covers a tenth of a mile, you'd need about 30,000 routers to make it across the US. Dozens will break or have problems every day, so you'll need at least two per site. That means a total of 60,000 roters. At $100 each that brings the total to $6 million. The battery powered routers for the desert will obviously be more expensive though. Also you'd have to stop people from stealing these somehow, which would be a serious problem.

In conclusion, it would be really hard and really expensive to do this, but it is possible.

Re:very difficult... (2, Interesting)

niko9 (315647) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951828)

This sort of coast to coast communication is done everyday with ham radio. It's called packet radio. Hell, it's even done with voice repeaters. I usually chat with the fols in Florida using nothing but my 600mw Radio Shack Dual Band HT. Yup, thats right, 600mw radio and three double AA batteries.

www.arrl.org

Re:very difficult... (1)

maxmg (555112) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951829)

At least make the routers solar-powered. That's what deserts are best known for. Sun, and lots of it.

Re:very difficult... (1)

div_2n (525075) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951964)

Since you can easily go 50 miles with an 8 watt configuration I think your numbers are quite off. You can do a 30 mile point to point link for easily $900 (probably less). $90,000 would get you a nice 3,000 miles.

Re:very difficult... (2)

istartedi (132515) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952031)

I think the hardest part is social, not technical. What happens when some 19 year old with black leather and piercings knocks on the door of some Iowa corn farmer and tries to explain all this?

First thing they need is people who are... wait for it... people oriented, sales types. There. I said it.

Next, they will probably encounter broad swaths of land that are under the control of the Federal government or large corporations. Remember Roger and Me? Lotsa luck even getting an answer from these guys, and if you do get one it will probably be "no".

Assuming they can chart a course around forbidden land, they will have to deal with forbidding land. Desolate plains are easy, as long as you can find the owners. Uninhabited mountains are the worst. I think they should try to go from New York City to Miami before going from New York to LA. If they can't throw this bad-boy down the I-95 corridor, they have no hope. (I'm biased on this of course, because I can practically lean out my front door and spit on I-95).

waste of time (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951751)

Imagine a beowolf cluster of those...

It will never be finished... (-1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951755)

just like 90% of the projects that get started on SF.net, a plan will be drawn up but will not be executed. If it happens, I would be shocked.

Emergency access (5, Insightful)

bigattichouse (527527) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951757)

Creating ex-temp webs like this might assist insurance adjusters and other computer-needing personnel to work better in emergency hot zones... it would be nice if a company out there started manufacturing the "cans" for emergency use and the FCC made some modifications to the rules for emergency usage ... so every little town could have a few "wi-fi" kits in storage to chain up when a hurricane has leveled everything.. you could also throw some authentication mechanisms on the idea and build a quick "emergency VoIP network" the same way. Just a thought from the thoughtbrew: www.bigattichouse.com [bigattichouse.com]

Re:Emergency access (1)

macshune (628296) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951956)

That's a good idea, but what about the power requirements? Maybe it would work with battery-powered Wi-Fi phone ala those Cisco phones that were mentioned here recently?

Ideas that /.'ers get when stoned (1)

cjackson0 (645769) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951760)

Dude 1: Dude... I bet we can get the whole country like connected without wires or nuthin man.

Dude 2: Dude... that'd be awesome! We could like have our own network without that internet crap

Dude 1: Dude... That'd be cool

I'm still waiting for a reasonable ammount of WiFi hot-spots to check email. This falls under the category of pipe-dream.

-My 2 cents.

Why this (might) matter. (5, Insightful)

vkg (158234) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951763)

Something like 70% of internet backbone is owned by half a dozen companies. The RIAA & co are putting increasing pressure on businesses and universities, and backbone providers may be next.

The Government is, frankly, outright hostile to many forms of free expression, and some basic civil rights we've come to take for granted (abortion rights, for starters, never mind the Bill of Rights).

This project may teach valuable lessons about using open standards to form a non-owned, alternative internet backbone.

Basic Civil Rights (1)

cjackson0 (645769) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951802)

Don't start the whole abortion thing. People have been screaming at each other over this one forever and it ain't really a /.'ing topic.

Re:Basic Civil Rights (1, Flamebait)

vkg (158234) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951872)

Yo, we've gotten used to abortion as a basic civil right. You may disagree, but we treat abortion-on-request as a basic part of life.

You may disagree, of course. But de facto, its a civil right.

Re:Basic Civil Rights (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951923)

So is murder in Afghanistan. Oh yeah, now in the US, IYO.

Re:Basic Civil Rights (2, Insightful)

Reapl (96156) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951961)

I am thinking that you mean the royal 'we' there and are somehow talking for the whole of US society?

Just because your social/political grouping sees it as a basic part of 'life' does not mean that society in general sees it as such, and I would hazard to guess that if it was such an entrenched social defacto standard as you suggest then no government would be concerned at allowing it.

But basically, there is no overwhelming social majority on one side or the other. There are big camps on both sides, with some valid concerns and some crap too. In the middle is the large group who don't consider abortion even an issue until it directly involves their lives, and could most likely not give an honest choice either way.

We can tell where you sit, but you can't tell the world where my opinion rests and have no right to speak on my behalf.

Hrm... (0, Flamebait)

vkg (158234) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951984)

Are you male or female?

It makes a difference on this issue. I happen to be male.

Yes, there are large, often fundamentalist christian groups who consider that a woman can't choose whether or not to carry a child. I pity us if they ever come to power.

Save Roe . Com (1)

vkg (158234) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952007)

Save Roe [saveroe.com] is a site about the current Republican, Fundamentalist attack on abortion rights.

Re:Why this (might) matter. (1)

NewbieProgrammerMan (558327) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951938)

The freedom aspect of a project like this was the first thing that came to my mind. While people may argue about whether they're choosing the right transmission methods or whether it will work well or not, I think the fact that someone is willing try it is a good thing.

I'm not much on conspiracy theories and doomsaying, but if the US government continues to grant itself increasing power to invade our privacy, I would expect to see projects like this proliferate. You're going to force my ISP to spy on me? I'll just use the public wifi network. It may be a long time before a network like this would rival the internet, but it would be nice to have some alternatives in the works.

Re:Why this (might) matter. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951963)

The Government is, frankly, outright hostile to many forms of free expression, and some basic civil rights we've come to take for granted (abortion rights, for starters, never mind the Bill of Rights).

This project may teach valuable lessons about using open standards to form a non-owned, alternative internet backbone.


You sound like unAmerican commie scum! ;-)

Um, totally nuts (1)

JonahDark1 (63703) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951764)

But as long as they don't decide to use 100W transmiters and start frying people, I guess it won't hurt anyone.

Pppphht! to anyone who doesn't do things just because it sounds like fun. Who are you to judge?

my 2c worth...

Re:Um, totally nuts (2, Interesting)

div_2n (525075) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951922)

Since the FCC fines owners of such devices $1,000 per day per device I don't see thise happening.

Sorry.. (0, Offtopic)

knightinshiningarmor (653332) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951766)

I don't think this project will be a success.
My current project (located in the midwest)
release tons of energy, which will most likely
interfere. Sorry 'bout that!

; )

Sounds like... (1)

flogger (524072) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951770)

"Hands across America" in the mid eighties [tripod.com] . But that was for a good reason (if you think those things are good). I recall in my county there were not enough people to go from one side of the county to the other. (Aside: My little brother had to sit through a teacher lecturing at school about how this failing signalled the downfall of society.)

The "Let's do it for-the-hell-of-it" mentality is not going to get a lan across from coast to coast. Now if Each person were asked to share one folder on a hard drive with a favorite song/movie/picture, then I think people would buy their own wireless paraphenalia to jump into this big p2p event.

Well, that's my intial comment. Off to read the article.

Real world applications. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951775)

1) Instant spammer access point - everyone can now become a spammer without being traced. Think of all the new revenue this will bring people.

2) Hostage demand messaging - now kidnappers can safely communicate with authorities about their ransoms demands, and do it anonymously.

3) Stalker sanctuary - need to cyberstalk someone, but those traceable connections just getting in the way? Well with a free wireless acees point, you too can now become the new John Hinckley Jr., hell you can threaten national leaders worldwide if you like!

Any Gen Xers out there? (0, Redundant)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951776)

Haaaannnndddssss Across A-mer-i-ca [tripod.com] . I leave the kazaa links as an excercise for the reader.

I'll do it (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951784)

My black ass is right on the Chesapeake Bay, pretty far East and right in the middle of the coast. I would do it. Send my black ass an email at info@myblackasswilldoityo.com

I was going to... (4, Funny)

niko9 (315647) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951789)

invest in some blue chip stock, but I think I'll ivest in some obscure potato chip company instead. :p

Yes, YES, YES!!! (3, Interesting)

istartedi (132515) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951796)

As long as he's not obsessed with 802.11x, this is great! For the longer stretches, he should use IR lasers or something that can really throw the bits around.

If he can succeed, the long-term implications are fantastic. Internet will become too cheap to meter. Inexpensive laser and other types of LOS relays will join windmills and silos as familiar rural landmarks. AOL and Time-Warner can eat all of America's shorts. There is nothing to say the same economic forces that may eventually make proprietary software obsolete can't make proprietary networks obsolete too.

The hard part about free wireless has always been the "upstream". If this guy can get a viable continent spanning link, it may go down in history just like the link between... what was it... Duke and UNC? You know, the one that started the internet in the first place. Let's see... we have internet, internet 2, and now internet 3. I can't wait. I think Internet 3 could eventually replace internet 1 and make internet 2 jelous.

Give it the same amount of time we gave that first uucp link.

p.s., I'm surprised my subject line makes it through the filters.

Re:Yes, YES, YES!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951836)

Hold your orgasm, orgasmo.
It'll never happen.
Point that IR laser beam at your ass.

No, NO, NO!!! (2, Insightful)

wirelessbuzzers (552513) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952003)

As long as he's not obsessed with 802.11x, this is great! For the longer stretches, he should use IR lasers or something that can really throw the bits around.

Fair enough. Although fiber throws the bits around better.

If he can succeed, the long-term implications are fantastic. Internet will become too cheap to meter. Inexpensive laser and other types of LOS relays will join windmills and silos as familiar rural landmarks. AOL and Time-Warner can eat all of America's shorts. There is nothing to say the same economic forces that may eventually make proprietary software obsolete can't make proprietary networks obsolete too.

Yeah. And if everyone laid fiber to their neighbor's houses and got routers for it, the same thing could happen. That'd be really cool, too, and probably about as cheap. But it's not gonna happen anytime soon.

The hard part about free wireless has always been the "upstream". If this guy can get a viable continent spanning link, it may go down in history just like the link between... what was it... Duke and UNC? You know, the one that started the internet in the first place. Let's see... we have internet, internet 2, and now internet 3. I can't wait. I think Internet 3 could eventually replace internet 1 and make internet 2 jelous.

There's a ping-time issue. The cost of receiving and retransmitting those packets is non-trivial, both in time and in energy, especially if you use WEP. Count on pinging across the network to take minutes. Like I said, laying fiber would be much cooler for free internet. But it's just as not-gonna-happen.

First coast-to-coast ping (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951818)

I live in Philadelphia.
[hammer-sickle:~] glm% ping www.ca.gov
PING www.ca.gov (63.196.102.5): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 63.196.102.5: icmp_seq=0 ttl=27 time=124.276 ms
64 bytes from 63.196.102.5: icmp_seq=1 ttl=27 time=78.549 ms
64 bytes from 63.196.102.5: icmp_seq=2 ttl=27 time=155.51 ms
64 bytes from 63.196.102.5: icmp_seq=3 ttl=27 time=84.047 ms
64 bytes from 63.196.102.5: icmp_seq=4 ttl=27 time=80.015 ms
64 bytes from 63.196.102.5: icmp_seq=5 ttl=27 time=84.081 ms
^C
--- www.ca.gov ping statistics ---
6 packets transmitted, 6 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 78.549/101.079/155.51 ms
Just because the coast-to-coast link is pointless doesn't mean it isn't cool! I'm all for it.

Re:First coast-to-coast ping (1)

_avs_007 (459738) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951924)

I think tracert would've looked cooler :)

Re:First coast-to-coast ping (1)

PFAK (524350) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952035)

The true coast to coast. From the great white north ;)

traceroute to www.ca.gov (63.196.102.5), 64 hops max, 44 byte packets
1 velocity (192.168.1.1) 0.396 ms 0.336 ms 0.316 ms
2 209.53.1.238 (209.53.1.238) 14.797 ms 14.838 ms 14.952 ms
3 209.53.142.146 (209.53.142.146) 16.034 ms 209.53.142.150 (209.53.142.150) 15.482 ms 209.53.142.158 (209.53.142.158) 16.088 ms
4 nwmrbc01gr01.bb.telus.com (154.11.4.98) 14.691 ms 15.034 ms 15.818 ms
5 nwmrbc01br01.bb.telus.com (154.11.10.53) 58.448 ms 60.565 ms 61.309 ms
6 sttlwa01gr02.bb.telus.com (209.53.75.178) 61.778 ms 62.234 ms 59.169 ms
7 plalca01gr00.bb.telus.com (154.11.10.2) 54.622 ms 53.273 ms 52.244 ms
8 bb2-p4-0.pxpaca.sbcglobal.net (151.164.89.237) 51.875 ms 62.915 ms 56.183 ms
9 bb1-p14-3.sntc01.pbi.net (64.161.1.41) 59.290 ms 74.547 ms 67.062 ms
10 bb1-p14-0.scrm01.sbcglobal.net (151.164.188.122) 68.950 ms 71.872 ms 68.791 ms
11 ded1-g12-0-0.scrm01.pbi.net (64.171.152.250) 70.696 ms 71.592 ms 71.476 ms
12 VIP-CALNET-State-Cal-Dept-of-General-Serv-Teale-Da ta-1035588.cust-rtr.pacbell.net (206.13.19.178) 68.998 ms 67.916 ms 71.693 ms
13 * * *
14 * * *

Real world applications (5, Interesting)

mindstrm (20013) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951822)

The real world application is, perhaps, psychological: getting people to realize that with a bit of effort each, we can all be networked to each other at high speed WITHOUT paying some company OR government for the privelege of just moving data around using equipment we own and airwaves that belong to everyone.

Icom D-STAR anyone? LanLinkup is a foolish thing. (-1, Troll)

puzzled (12525) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951825)

These guys apparently expect to build a full routed network with their own IP addressing scheme that will encompass the entire US and *NOT* connect to the public internet. Riiigggghhhttttt.

Excuse me, but don't we already *have* a perfectly good public internet? What is the value of LanLinkup? Its good slashdot fodder but what other purpose does it have? None, I say, and I'd like to see anyone come up with a valid counter to this.

If *I* were going to spend time picking fights with windmills, I'd be trying to roll out an IPv6 scheme, I'd certainly let people connect it to the public internet(as if that is something that can be dictated), and I'd avoid 802.11b like the plague - go google for "Icom" and "D-STAR" and see the future - 128kbit connections that can reach twenty or more miles from a well done base station, 10GHz repeater links, voice as well as data ...

So, if you *really* want to get involved in hooking stuff together, ignore the wireless lan technology, go get your ham technician ticket, and get with the program.

Re:Icom D-STAR anyone? LanLinkup is a foolish thin (1)

cranos (592602) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951912)

Let me guess, you're one of those people who question the value of exploration of space as well, or the climbing of Everest.

Because it is there man, because it is there.

Sounds impractical (1)

Mars Saxman (1745) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951856)

There is one hell of a lot of absolutely nothing between the Sierra Nevada and the Great Plains, including long stretches with dozens of miles between buildings. Even if this effort could get access points set up at every building with a power outlet, it'd still be difficult.

I wish this project well, and I think an open network of access points routing packets to one another is a far better vision of what the Internet could be than the backbone-oriented system we have today... but I am not at all hopeful that they will pull this off.

-Mars

Haven't the amateurs already done this? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951868)

with VHF packet systems years ago?

Tried before (2, Interesting)

pongo000 (97357) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951893)

One of the guys with l0pht set up this site [guerilla.net] in an attempt to accomplish something similar: A LAN-based backbone independent of government and corporate oversight. I waited two years for someone in my area to indicate some sort of interest, but nobody seemed interested. The last time this site was updated was in 2002, so I guess the original author's interest has waned as well.

The point of this post, though, is to provide a link that does a good job of answering why such an independent backbone would be A Good Thing.

DIY (0)

baldass (653484) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951916)

for once it would make all this diy crap on tv make some sense to me...

Details, details, details, WHERE are the details! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951925)

Timeline - By mid May, I would like to have hammered out a routing plan, lan ip block assignment, have a general idea about how things will be done, and have a growing population.

Well, it's mid May, and the site has a distinct lack of any sort of technical detail, plans, etc. Just the overall idea. While that's nice, it ain't gonna happen without a plan.

How can we comment on the technical or sociological feasibility without at least a minimal plan?

Here's my plan: Make lots of money.

Great idea, isn't it. By mid-June I hope to have a plan...

Bah...

Ping time? (2, Insightful)

GGardner (97375) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951937)

So, does anyone want to make a prediction for ping time across 3,000 miles, and grid only knows how many hops? Does anyone know the record for most routers from one end of an IP network to the other today?

this sounds like the hands across america thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5951950)

we tryed this in the 80's but with people. what makes you think that the radio waves care any more than we didn't???

And how is this different... (2, Interesting)

pongo000 (97357) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951970)

...than if everyone involved with this project tested for their Amateur Radio Tech license, and simply used existing off-the-shelf components with power output several magnitudes greater than consumer-grade 802.11 equipment to do the same thing?

Hams have been communicating digitally in the GHz spectrum for a long time now. Why use inferior consumer-grade equipment to get the job done? Plus, as a licensed ham, you have the permission of the government to modify your equipment as necessary (as long as it falls within the power/interference limits set by the FCC).

Of course, transmitting porn and music would be against the regs, but if it's principle you're after, using amateur radio is just the ticket.

I have an idea... (1)

MoeMoe (659154) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951977)

Coast2Coast LAN Party!!!!! East vs. West for TITLE OF THE BEST!!!

Re:I have an idea... (1)

flogger (524072) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952008)

It's been done...sort of. The Million Man Lan [millionmanlan.com] that happened a couple of years ago had a gathering in Louisville, KY for the easterners and a gathering somewhere in California for the Westerners. The two gatherings were supposed to be connected by a T-3 connection. But the West coast contingent failed due to not enough registrations. Too Bad. We had a blast for 4 days with out them.

Parma Heights (1)

KillerHamster (645942) | more than 11 years ago | (#5951991)

They have computers in Parma Heights?

Sorry...I'm from Parma...had to say it

Nice idea, but... (1)

ddent (166525) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952000)

Isn't such a network going to have rather large latency problems?

And a few megabits may sound like a lot, but wait until you have a few thousand users even.

This wouldn't work (1)

PageMap (311469) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952013)

For one thing, the midwest and desert areas of the US have multiple mile stretches without a house, or even an electrical hookup. You might be able to tap into the overhead powerlines but I don't think the power company would be too happy with that.

It won't work using IP. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952030)

There's a little thing called TTL that will be exceeded well before the first packet makes it across Mountain Standard Time.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?
or Connect with...

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>