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When Copy Protection Fails

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the nothing-can-go-wrong dept.

Music 509

StArSkY writes "The Age in Australia has an article today explaining the experiences of a Melbourne guy who purchased the Norah Jones CD tht is 'copy protected.' Unfortunately the only way he could listen to the CD on Apple computers or Intel computers running XP was to copy the CD. This sort of defeats the purpose of the copy protection in the first place. Serious yet amusing at the same time."

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He copied a cd? (3, Funny)

craenor (623901) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952508)

When does he get out of jail?

Re:He copied a cd? (4, Informative)

confused philosopher (666299) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952549)

In Canada you can copy a CD legally for "personal use". Australia has a similar legal system, based on British common law. Their copyright law is likely similar in this regard too.

I'd be interested in hearing from an Aussie on this though.

Re:He copied a cd? (5, Informative)

fact0r (668279) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952609)

In Australia there is a specific legal right to make a backup copy of software [] .

Other than that the copyright owner can license their intellectual property however they want (which will ordinarily prevent a copy being made).

That is - the guy who did this has likely committed a civil offence (but not a criminal offence).

Re:He copied a cd? (5, Interesting)

Fulkkari (603331) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952619)

AFAIK in Finland you are even allowed to share your own legal music with your friends/family. As you can imagine, because of the p2p networks there have been serious discussion in who really is your friend (eg. the guy living in the States that you have never seen, but you know him by IRC, is he your friend?). It will be interesting to see how things will end up.

Australian Copyright Law (4, Informative)

Talez (468021) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952631)


Our copyright law is rather anal. Contrary to popular belieft you can't copy something for personal use at all. No exceptions.

For you to copy ANY music requires permission from the songwriter, the musicians and the distributor as they each hold a copyright for a seperate part of the article (music, lyrics and the sound recording itself).

That being said, if someone infringes someone's copyright it's a civil action rather than a criminal action (except when its a for-profit). We also have something similar to the DMCA except it only enables civil suits (ie, if I remove DeCSS from a DVD the DVD company come sue me if they feel I'm doing anything nasty).

For more information see the Copyright Council's web page [] and also their fact sheet [] on music and copyright.

Re:Australian Copyright Law (4, Interesting)

Large Green Mallard (31462) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952736)

Yeah, but remember in Australia we do specialise in making laws and then not enforcing them ;)

Look at the internet censorship one.. or our "dmca".. or traffic, drug, petty theft laws.. hell, you pretty much need to kill someone here to do more than 3 months jail time :)

Re:He copied a cd? (5, Informative)

serps (517783) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952650)

The Oz Copyright Council [] says otherwise. When it comes to fair use, we are teh suck.

choice quotes:

Using a CD burner to make a copy of material will "reproduce the work" for the purposes of copyright, as will making a tape from a CD, or copying a tape or copying vinyl records onto tape or CD.


There is no exception in the Copyright Act that allows copyright material to be reproduced for private purposes without permission from the copyright owner.

There was at one stage an attempt to bring in a "blank tape levy" scheme in Australia, under which private taping of recorded music would have been made legal, with copyright owners receiving compensation through a small additional charge on blank tapes. The way the government at the time attempted to implement the scheme was, however, found to be unconstitutional by the High Court, and Australian governments have not made any further attempts to introduce a scheme which avoids the problems of the earlier attempt. Blank tape levy schemes operate successfully in a number of other countries, particularly in Europe.

(emphasis mine)


Is it legal to copy albums onto CD if you own the albums?
Owning an album is not the same as owning copyright in the music, lyrics and sound recordings that are embedded in the album. If you are not the owner of copyright you will need permission to copy music from an album to CD even if you have bought the album you want to copy.

Am I allowed to make a copy or compilation of music on a CD for private use?
There is no special exception which allows copying of CDs or cassettes for private use. In most cases you will need permission from the owners of copyright in the music & lyrics (usually the music publisher) and the owners of copyright in the sound recording (usually the record company).

Can I download music from the Internet and copy it onto CD?
The fact that material is made available on the Internet (for example, as an MP3 file) does not mean that it may be used freely. Material on the Internet may still be protected by copyright. If this is the case, and the copyright owners have not given permission to download and record their work, you will infringe copyright by reproducing the music, lyrics and sound recording onto CD. Sometimes, copyright owners grant express permission to use their work. You should look for such permissions on the site from which you are downloading.

Can I make backup copies of my music CDs?
Making a backup copy of a CD will involve making a reproduction of the music, lyrics and sound recordings on that CD. The right to reproduce the work is one of the exclusive rights of the owners of copyright in those items. You may not legally make a back up copy of a CD when the CD contains material that is protected by copyright unless you have permission from the owner of copyright or a special exception applies to your use.

Re:He copied a cd? (3, Interesting)

fact0r (668279) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952719)

I'm not really sure The Oz Copyright Council is the most balanced source of information given the organisations affiliated with it [] - consisting of such delightful organisations as The Australian Record Industry Association [] (the Australian equivalent of RIAA).

They very much fail to make clear that breach of copyright is only a criminal offence when the breacher makes money out of it (or breaches "to an extent that affects prejudicially the owner of the copyright" - quote from the law). Any other breaches are simply civil offences (in general much less rewarding in Australia when compared to the US). [how large a breach needs to be before affecting the owner prejudicially has never been tested in the courts here to the best of my knowledge]

They also don't make mention of the right to back up software - a right which has been supported by the Australian Competition and Consumer comission when they supported the right to sell Playstation modchips [] .

Ironic (1)

Talez (468021) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952733)

You just infringed on the copyright council's copyright byt posting that.

Re:He copied a cd? (4, Interesting)

Gumshoe (191490) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952693)

Australia has a similar legal system, based on British common law. Their copyright law is likely similar in this regard too.

You can't copy CDs for personal use in Britain as it's not one of activities listed in the fair use laws -- an activity has to be explicitely exempted for it to be free from the restrictions imposed by the copyright laws. See The UK Campaign For Digital Rights [] for more info, particularly the FAQ []

Re:He copied a cd? (5, Funny)

arvindn (542080) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952551)

As an apology for the inconvenience caused by being unable to play the CD, he'll be getting a Norah Jones T-shirt and DVD. However, for making an unauthorized copy of the CD, he'll be sued for $97 trillion.

Re: More and more of this ... (4, Insightful)

BrainStop (671027) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952675)

Unfortunately, we are seeing more and more of this attitude by the record companies.

I listen to most of my music at work using my PC and my headphones. So my wife recently got me the new Phil Collins CD ... for me to find out that I can't listen to it on a PC.

All that this achieves is that I'm being pushed towards downloading the tracks so that I can listen to them. At that point, what stops me from not being the CD since it won't work for me? The record companies will end up shooting their own foot off ...

I have nothing against buying reasonably priced CD's. However, I do not think that 20 euros is reasonable (although Switzerland is fortunately quite a bit cheaper than that).

Maybe I should write to Phil himself .. what do artists think about it?


Re:He copied a cd? (3, Informative)

chriskenrick (89693) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952557)

When does he get out of jail?

That's not as funny as you think in the light of this. [] Copying CD's without the copyright holder's permission is illegal in Australia.

Not a civil case (1)

serps (517783) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952670)

And it's even less funny when you consider that Australian police just instigated the world's first criminal proceedings [] against 3 students charged with music piracy.

Not civil proceedings; this is federal pound-me-in-the-arse prison we're talking about.

That is a different situation (1)

Chuck Chunder (21021) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952741)

Generally, infringements of copyright which involve commercial dealings are criminal offences (with trading as is the case you point to counting as commercial dealing).

Copying for your own use would almost certainly be a civil case and as such the amount you can get stuffed for would be related to the damages incurred by the wronged party. Those damages would be demonstrably zero and you wouldn't have much to worry about.

Of course, IANAL.

Sounds Familiar (5, Interesting)

Blacklotuz (575879) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952512)

This sounds sort of like something I just submited involving cd key protected software and my current situation in which the only way I will be able to use the software is to download a pirated copy since I lost the manual with the key. Copy protection makes life twice as dificult for pirates while making it 10 times as difficult for regular paying customers... And ive never goten a chance to say this before but... FP?

No, SP. You failed it. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952539)

Suck it now.

Re:cd key protected software (1)

Technician (215283) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952595)

I always write the key on the disk itself. No need to have the CD break if the package is lost. Instead of downloading a pirate copy of the CD, just do a search for the product CD key. Google is your friend. I have had to do this for a copy of Win98 when a machine had the HD fail. The disk (Original with full hologram) was in a CD binder. Nobody knew where the packaging was.

Re:cd key protected software (2, Interesting)

hazem (472289) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952620)

I hate to install from originals. One thing I like to do is copy the disk, but instead of making a disk-to-disk copy, I'll add a text file containing the CD-key, and then copy the files over. As long as there is no funky disk formatting, this works great.

Then when I install from the copy, not only do I have the key, I can also just open it up in textpad and copy and paste it. I hate typing those 20+ letter codes - I don't know how dyslexics do it!

Re:- I don't know how dyslexics do it! (1)

Technician (215283) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952681)

I hate typing those 20+ letter codes - I don't know how dyslexics do it!

For myself, I print them on stickers as a barcode, then anytime I need a full reinstall, I just plug in a modified Cue Cat. No typing errors.

Re:cd key protected software (1)

Technician (215283) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952690)

open it up in textpad and copy and paste it

Umm, maybe I'm missing something. How do you open Notepad during install on a new hard drive?

Oh, you may be talking about applications, not the OS. Now I understand!

Re:Sounds Familiar (4, Interesting)

Samir Gupta (623651) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952615)

CD keys aren't really intended for "Copy protection" at all (other than in the online gaming world, where it can be checked against a server containing all valid keys).

They exist so that each copy of the program is serialized, and they can in theory, identify your identity if you leak the CD key to pirates. Of course, the way to thwart that is not register at all -- unless you have to do that silly Microsoft activation thing.

In the console world, we're a bit more enlightened, and never bother with such asinine methods such as "CD keys".

Identified? Yeah right. (2, Interesting)

Kjella (173770) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952745)

Even if you bought it with your CC and registered it with your real data, if your cd key shows up on the net, it means that either

a) You gave it out
b) Somebody hax0red you (given the number of people that are DDoS bots, how many have a particular game installed)
c) You sold it second-hand to a dude that has leaked it

Not to mention, most of the serials don't sound like legitimate registrations at all, like "Name: l33t hax0rs Phone: 1122334455 Reg key: dkhgslksg". I seriously doubt that was ever a real key.


Re:Sounds Familiar (1)

lithis (5679) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952622)

i had to use a cd crack to get diablo 2 to run under wine--not the entertaining experience i expect from a game. i believe winex has added support for the copy-protection scheme used by diablo 2, but it was a hassle for me at the time.

Re:Sounds Familiar (4, Interesting)

Monkelectric (546685) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952668)

I have a similar story -- back in the day I bought a copy of Steinberg LM4. The copy protection *only* worked in win98 (read: wouldn't install on 2k even though 2k was a supported platform for Cubase). The only way for me to get it running was to install it on a win98 box, copy the samples to my 2k machine and then you guessed it, install the cracked version -- even thought I was *trying* to be legit and pay for the god damn software. Guess what? Im still using the cracked version -- it doesn't ask for a CD every fucking time you start it.

Surprised the PCs didn't work (1)

777333ddd (525062) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952515)

I thought these new formats were based on Windows Media. Pretty farked up if it fails on XP. That probably wasn't something EMI would expect

What's point of buying a .wav quality product... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952516)

...only to listen to it on crappy "computer speakers" being pushed by a $20 piece of inferior audio circuitry? Why not listen on a real audio system? This is like buying a DVD movie to view via a ViewMaster. He might as well found an AIFF file of the songs.

Re:What's point of buying a .wav quality product.. (1, Funny)

confused philosopher (666299) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952561)

"This is like buying a DVD movie to view via a ViewMaster."

Hey, don't dis ViewMaster!

I don't see any "3D" DVD movies yet. But if they were copy protected, you can bet someone would hack them to play on a ViewMaster.

Who needs the big 1.2? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952526)

Yet another reason swift adoption of Linux for the masses needs to happen.

Re:Who needs the big 1.2? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952743)

soviet russia

Solution: dont use XP! (5, Informative)

BladeMelbourne (518866) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952529)

I purchased the Norah Jones CD (Valentines day gift for my fiancé). She wanted them as MP3s for her XP laptop, so I copied the wave files off the CD using the cdfs.vxd replacement. fsvxd/alternat ecdfsvxd.html

Does Australian law prohibit me doing this?

Re:Solution: dont use XP? (2, Funny)

confused philosopher (666299) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952571)

I'd like to ammend your title to read:
Solution: dont use Norah Jones.

Please, no Funny mods please, this is clearly flamebait ;-)

Re:Solution: dont use XP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952596)

Damn you moderators! I said NO funny mods.

Well, actually I've listened to Norah Jones, and she has a hot, throaty voice. Don't care too much for jazz usually.

Re:Solution: dont use XP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952635)

Yup, she actually smokes to 'enhance' her voice. At least she's making money off her music, because she sounds too friggin' stupid to make money any other way.

Re:Solution: dont use XP? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952645)

I'd love to use Norah Jones. What a hottie!

Re:Solution: dont use XP! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952637)

Is there a linux solution like this? An alternate iso9660 driver, that lists audiotracks as wavs?

Please note: this is not flamebait nor karma. Posting anonymous for that.

Re:Solution: dont use XP! (1)

faaaz (582035) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952661)

I know the KDE filebrowser Konqueror can do this. I recall you could get WAVEs Oggs or Mp3s at preset quality. Pretty convenient actually. And out of the box, I might add ;)

autofs (4, Informative)

ViGe (49356) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952686)

Is there a linux solution like this? An alternate iso9660 driver, that lists audiotracks as wavs?

As little googling would have tould you, there are several such filesystems for linux. I myself use audiofs. It's as easy to use as "mount -t audio /dev/cdrom /cdrom". Actually, if the cd does not have an iso9660 filesystem, the "auto" filesystem can detect it automatically.

Re:Solution: dont use XP! (2, Informative)

PerryMason (535019) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952692)

Does Australian law prohibit me doing this?

No it doesn't, this is illegal. Copyright Act 1968 (CTH) defines reproduction thusly;
For the purposes of this Act, a work is taken to have been reproduced if it is converted into or from a digital or other electronic machine-readable form, and any article embodying the work in such a form is taken to be a reproduction of the work.

And more importantly defines the exclusive rights of the copyright holder as;
S31 1(b)
in the case of an artistic work, to do all or any of the following acts:

(i) to reproduce the work in a material form;

So only the copyright holder is permitted to make reproductions of any sort, or alternatively to permit reproduction. If you want those Norah Jones .mp3s in Australia, you have to ask Norah.

Re:Solution: dont use XP! (1)

PerryMason (535019) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952700)

No it doesn't

Doh! Should have re-read before I posted. Yes, Australian law does prohibit it. No it doesn't allow it.

Anyway, you get the gist.

That isn't too bad. (5, Funny)

ATAMAH (578546) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952530)

Because judging by the way things are going with RIAA very soon we won't be able to listen to a CD unless we actually buy concert tickets beforehand.

Re:That isn't too bad. (3, Interesting)

Farley Mullet (604326) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952581)

Because judging by the way things are going with RIAA very soon we won't be able to listen to a CD unless we actually buy concert tickets beforehand

Actually, the exact opposite is starting to happen, to an extent; that is, record companies are starting to build in "added value" to CD's to entice you to actually buy the CD instead of just downloading the tracks. Here in Canada, The Tragically Hip [] did something involving cheaper concert tickets [] for people who bought their latest album; Wilco [] put an EP's worth of .mp3 files [] up for download for people who could enter a code from the packaging of their last album [] . This is another odd, unforeseen consequence of .mp3 sharing; record companies have to earn their money when they sell albums and are doing all sorts of stuff, like bundling DVD's with CD's (J5 [] did that with their last album), or using contests, on-line content or other swag to actually separate you from your buck.

Re:That isn't too bad. (1)

Golias (176380) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952699)

Speaking of The Tragically Hip, their old semi-hit "Blow At Hight Dough" is downright infectious and definately worth having. However, they also tend to flesh out their albums with lots of mediocre filler (IMHO, YMMV, blah blah blah.)

I reccomend buying their best singles off the iTunes Music Store (you Windows guys will have it in a few months), and skip buying the albums.

How did he copy it? (5, Interesting)

coday (628350) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952534)

If all the machines he tried the CD on did not recognize, load or play it how did he manage to make a copy?

I suppose... (1)

darkitecture (627408) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952560)

I suppose he put it into a computer that wasn't an apple, nor was it an Intel PC running XP. Maybe a computer running Win2k? Or Win98? Or something? Just maybe?

Re:How did he copy it? (1)

WegianWarrior (649800) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952587)

I assume that the mediaplayers he tried to use (which, judging by the way the article is worded, is the default player on each system) failed to 'pick it up' when he inserted the disc. Most, if not all, CD-burning software I am aware of is able to make a copy of a CD even if the format isn't recogniced - usefull when I copy a CD with a linux-distro on it on a Win9x box.

Re:How did he copy it? (4, Funny)

neurostar (578917) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952591)

how did he manage to make a copy?

Bah, that's easy...
tweezers, a really small magnet, and lots of time are all you need...

We could tell you.. (1)

Kwil (53679) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952599)

..but then we'd have to sue ourselves.

- Your friendly neighborhood RIAA rep.

Simple solution. (5, Insightful)

grolschie (610666) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952535)

Return the defective CD under his country's consumer rights law. If enough people do this, then the companies might rethink the whole idea. Many people use DVD players as a CD for their stereo systems. Why should a CD not work in them?

Re:Simple solution. (2)

excessive (621757) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952664)

The irony of one copy protected disc is that it plays happily in my portable CD player, it plays happily in my PS2, it almost plays happily in one of my PCs, (It reads audio but screws up the index positions of the last 5 tracks - combining them into one) it doesn't on my other PC, it doesn't play in my brothers car CD changer and it freaks out his DVD player to such an extent it refuses to read other discs for a while...

So thats 2 non-PCs can play it, 2 non-PCs can't play it, 1 PC can play it, 1 PC can't play it. 50/50 both sides!

IFPI (4, Funny)

Mattygfunk1 (596840) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952536)

International Federation of the Phonographic Industry

I had to do a double-take on reading the name of that organisation. Needless to say I was greatly disappointed when I reread it. That h just looks so similiar to an r.

I had my credit card out to join and everything.

cheap web site hosting [] from 3 rocks a month.

Re:IFPI (3, Funny)

arvindn (542080) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952579)

Uhh... you really want to buy pics that you're allowed to jack off to only once?

Ive said it before, and Ill say it again (5, Insightful)

minghe (441878) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952537)

Those music disks are not 'copy protected', they are 'playback crippled'.

The best (or worst, depending of if you are an exec of a user) the record companies can do is to make their products a little bit more inconvenient to make copies of. They do this by making it more difficult (but never ever impossible) or time consuming to make copies. That is all.

To call it 'protection' is like wrapping your wiener in toilet paper and calling it a condom. It's stupid, it doesn't get yhe job done and it's only uncomfy. (I think, haven't tried it.)

Re:Ive said it before, and Ill say it again (5, Funny)

Jusii (86357) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952553)

Those music disks are not 'copy protected', they are 'playback crippled'

I call them 'listening protected'

And the provided software sucks (2, Interesting)

spoco2 (322835) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952641)

A friend just bought the latest Massive Attack CD. When he got back from the store I asked if I could have a listen to it on my PC at work (NT4 *shudder*)... when I did it did not load my default Winamp, but instead automatically, with no prompting, installed its own player which proceded to crash... leaving me with no way of listening to the CD.

I've also come across this with some other CDs I own (Although not Norah Jones funnily enough).

Every time I buy a CD I rip it and store the CD away. This is so I can listen to the music I PAYED FOR while I'm at work without having to lug all my CDs around.

Also, I make copies of my CDs for use in the car. This is after having a company car broken into twice, where approx 100 CDs were stolen (My wife had the original CDs in those slip-case things in the glovebox)... so now we have a pile of original CD cases with no CDs in them.

I copy CDs so that I can listen to them without having the original that I paid for stolen or broken. Software that tries to stop me doing that... just kinda... PISSES ME OFF!

Right... I'm going home.

Re:And the provided software sucks (1)

dpp (585742) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952674)

So could you get around this for the Massive Attack CD? Did you manage to rip the tracks in the end? I'm trying to decide whether to buy the album, but I also listen to my music on a computer at work.

Re:And the provided software sucks (1)

NeuroKoan (12458) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952695)

so now we have a pile of original CD cases with no CDs in them.

Why don't you throw them away? The CD's are not going to magically reappear if you keep the cases lying around.

Re:And the provided software sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952730)

Throw 'em out? You crazy? They're perfect cases to put the CD-R in.

Download the mp3 or FLAC/SHN/APE/WAV album, and burn. Good as new.

Same with software (5, Interesting)

Ryu2 (89645) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952540)

My Warcraft III EULA (and I'm sure others -- that was just a random selection from my game collection) explicitly states that I have the right to make one backup copy.

Well, guess what -- that disc is copy protected. So, in order to excercise my authorized right under the EULA, I have to defeat the copy protection...

Re: Same with software (2, Funny)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952660)

> My Warcraft III EULA (and I'm sure others -- that was just a random selection from my game collection) explicitly states that I have the right to make one backup copy.

Does it say how many copies you can make of the backup copy?

News? (1, Interesting)

cascino (454769) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952541)

How is this "news"? The protected CDs are designed not to work in computer CD drives.

Re:News? (1)

nate nice (672391) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952687)

It's total fraud then. They are decieving consumers into believing that they can play this CD (as it is sold in the store) on their CD player, regardless of CD player it is. If anything, their should be a HUGE (full cover) sticker in blaze orange telling people they can buy this CD but it will not work. Else, they should require all stores selling their music to read you a contract upon purchase. I'm sure this would go over well during Christmas time.

Matrix Reloaded full plot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952542)

Saw it before all of you people (12 days ago)...

Wrote this Friday night in a hurry. I know much of it has holes in it, but go for and ask any questions you have. I just want to say that I do not care if you believe me or not, just take a printed copy of this post with you to the movie and see how right (or wrong I am). =) Enjoy...


I just wrote this up real quickly since we got back from the movie just now. BTW, I don't care if you believe me or not. Just bookmark the post and come back in 13 days and see how right it is. I wanted to thank Warner Bros. for the sneak preview. Also to MTV for taping us for "MTV's Movie House". Watch this Thursday night and look for the guy with the Audi shirt on. =) Also, excuse the grammer/spelling/etc. errors. I wrote this in 5 minutes so i wouldn't forget everything. Ask me if you want anything filled in. =)


Just went to Matrix Reloaded. Good movie.

It opens with Trinity attacking a yet unknown location. All of a sudden, she jumps off the building (this is shown is the trailer) and is being pursued by an Agent. She gets shot. Neo wakes up and realizes it was a dream. He gets out of bed (Trinity is with him) and goes into the other room. They try to talk but he says nothing. Cut to next scene of Morpheous and other captains talking inside the Matrix. Interestingly, we learn that Morpheous is not really a big shot leader but rather just another peon in the world of Zion/Matrix who does not have the support of his fellow captains. There is a knock at the door. It is Agent Smith with something for Neo. It is his ear piece since he is no longer a part of the matrix but rather a lose program.

Agent Smith pulls up in a black Audi A8 (didn't see the rims so it might have been an S8--I'm an Audi nut =). Anyway, Agent Smith comes to the door and knocks on it hard. It is one of those metal doors with a sliding eye piece. The eye piece opens and then one of the two people (don't know exactly who they are, but they are freed people) and they get the envelope from Agent Smith. They call Neo up and give him the envelope which has the earpiece in it. The next knock from the door ha everyone assuming its Agent Smith, but its not. Its the other Agent (can't remember the name, either Thompson or Johnson) who are on the other side. Neo tells the others to scram and the fight starts. Apparently the Agents (2 or more, can't remember now) block Neo's bunch and Neo says "upgraded units". Fight continues. No idea where Agent Smith went. Fight scene ensues with real Agents who have found the location.

There is an arugment and the ship pulls into Zion. Machines are boring down we learn. Learn the commanders woman used to be morpheous woman who is a captain.

Morpheous speaks to people. Big party/orgy scene. Trinity and Neo have sex. Afterwards, the counselor talks to Neo.

Cut to scene of the glowing asian guy protecting the Oracle. They have a fight scene on the table. The asian guy is another one of these lose programs in the matrix.

Oracle talks to Neo about choices (more specifically about his choice to possibly let Trinity die--you should recall the first scene in the movie) and tells him about the Keymaker and "the source".

She leaves. Agents come. Agent Smith multiplies and a huge playground fight starts (shown in trailer). Agent smith is replicating himself somehow but putting his hand inside any person in the matrix and taking them over. He tries with Neo, but can't do it. Neo then leaves but flying (superman style) after the fight.

They go to find the keymaker at the French-wannabe information seller (The Merovingian) who is also a Matrix programmer. See Monica Belluchi as his wife (Persephone). For those who are kinky, The Merovingian programs this piece of cake to cause on of the people in his party to have an orgasmic experience. What is funny is the way they switch to the matrix style screen and up between her legs and show an explosin in that special area. =)

So the Merovingian turned down the request of Morpheous, Neo and Trinity to turn over the keymaker. Persephone was being belittled by her husband (Merovingian) and she seemed agitated. Morpheous, Neo and Trinity get into the elevator to leave. When they get to the ground floor, Persephone is waiting for them. She goes to the bathroom and then the entire kissing passionately scene comes up that I talked about before (Persephone wants Neo to kiss her like he kisses Trinity before she turns over the Keymaker). So She does and they end up in the house with the two staircases where the later fight scene happens and Persephone goes to a back room. The back room has two guys in it (don't know there names). She shoots one with her gun and tells the other to run to her husband to tell him what she has done. They then go and retrieve the keymaker from behind a small door. They find those weird white guys (The Twins). Here is the fight in that house with two round stair cases. Neo wins. The programmer says he has handled Previous Neos and survived (this is a huge clue as to what is coming up). Trinity and Morpheous start to chase the keymaker since he is scared to be caught again by the Merovingian. Chase ensues with the Twins following. The Keymaker can open backdoors with his keys so they get moved to a parking lot which eventually takes them onto the freeway. Freeway scene (the scene in the trailer where the agent crushes the car). Ducoti chase scene. Morpheous fights to save the keymaker while Trinity is trying to distract the agents. Another scene here is where Morpheous takes the sword throught the Cadillac EXT and then shoots is for a spectacular explosing.

Back to zion for counsel meeting and they send two more ships. Interestingly, the commander (Lock?) [who's woman (Niobe) used to be Morpheous' woman] doesn't agree with the prophecy. I don't remember if I mentioned this earlier but in the opening scene where the captains meet, Morpheous asks one ship to stay behind at communication depth to recieve a message from the Oracle which is a violation of the commander's orders. The commander wants to keep the ships to defend Zion. Here is where it gets to be drama. The first captain to volunteer his ship is some random guy. They could not get a second captain but after some wait, Niobe gets up and volunteers much to the dismay of the commander. She says something like "some things never change and some things do".

Keymaker tells Neo about the special building with a bridge to "the source". The plan involves three teams. One to knock out power, one to infiltrate and the third for support. One of the power plant teams dies due to an attack from the octopus machines. Trinity was told earlier to not enter the matrix because the premenatition neo got at the beginning is of Trinity being killed. But the backup systems for the power plant came on. If they open the backdoor into the building, neo dies. She goes into the Matrix. We learn the scene is her attacking the power plant. She sshs in and shuts the grid down right as Neo and crew is making it into the building. The keymaker is shot by agent smiths! He dies as the door shuts. Neo enters the door to the source. He meets an old gray bearded man named the architect. We learn that he created 5 previous matrixs. They all had flaws. The oracle is called the mother and he calls himself the father. Neo is called an anomaly who previous 5 people have come and gone. Basically here the nature of the matrix is described. The choice is given that neo can walk through one of 2 doors. Through one, hell save trinity who is falling off the power plant and about to be shot or through the other door he can take 16 men and 7 women to repopulate Zion. Either way, Zion will be destroyed by the boring machines. the architect says that neo is different since he has learned to love trinity. Neo picks the door to save trinity. By the way, Neo can fly in the movie. So he flies like a bullet and barely catches the falling trinity but she is shot. He pulls the bullet out and restarts her heart. they are now even is what trinity says. They get out of the matrix and learn that the defenses of zion are not standing up well due to the treachery of one ship. Earlier in the movie, Agent Smith took over this persons body/mind with his special new power and so he was removed from the matrix into the real world. From the attack, the person Smith took over is the only one that the attacking machines didnt kill. INterstingly, Neo somehow stops the pursuing robot ships coming after him as well. Coincidence? We dont know. All we know is the Neo is in a coma. This is where the movie ends.

Before long... (5, Funny)

lalonso (672311) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952543)

Eventually they'll resort to shipping blank CDs to thwart copying, and expect you to just stare at the pretty CD jacket while pretending you're listening to it...

Re:Before long... (1)

RTPMatt (468649) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952722)

Eventually they'll resort to shipping blank CDs to thwart copying, and expect you to just stare at the pretty CD jacket while pretending you're listening to it...

I dont think so buddy! 'pretending you're listening to it' would require you to 'reproduce' the music in your mind, and we all know that buying the CD gives you no right to reproduce it! say, what about when your stereo reproduces the sound on it? i guess those things a criminals as well.

Been there, done that (5, Funny)

Jusii (86357) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952544)

Bought a copy protected CD, which was from EMI. Couldn't listen to it so I made a copy for myself. Then I mailed the original CD back to EMI with note saying what I had to do just to listen the CD and here's the original back, I won't need it, my 20 euros for fighting piracy.

That's nothing (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952545)

Just wait until DRM gets widely established. Nothing new will work in old hardware.

You'll have to buy everything all over again.

So, What I want to know (0, Redundant)

Cmdr. Taco SuxDix (637829) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952555)

Is if he couldn't get any computer to recognize the disk then how did he manage to copy it?

Re:So, What I want to know (1)

mirko (198274) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952567)

Maybe he used a salon cdda writer or a standalone cd-copier...

Re:So, What I want to know (1)

Cmdr. Taco SuxDix (637829) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952594)

That's what I thought, but keep this in mind. So it probably wouldn't work.

Re:So, What I want to know (1)

Cmdr. Taco SuxDix (637829) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952600)

Oops, it dropped my HTML formatted link, let's try again without the HREF tags See this: 5952570

Re:So, What I want to know (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952680)

Wow, you're taking after your namesake already!

Re:So, What I want to know (-1, Offtopic)

Cmdr. Taco SuxDix (637829) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952702)

Yup, it's karma. Better stick to trolling.

Copy cd... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952564)

In soviet russia, CD copies YOU!

Also, at 3:15am having beer in a lab is the shiznat!

Lazer may be one right now!


Australia (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952568)

"..... in Australia..."
I stopped there. If you live in Australia, you are already a loser.

Re:Australia (-1, Troll)

redcane (604255) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952654)

hahaha Doesn't matter where you live, you are already a tosser.... Interesting flamebait nonetheless..

CD-RW Drives are the Problem (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952570)

The CD(s) concerned are protected by EMI's favourite copy protection system "Copy Control". You can tell by the little C.D.A.T.A logo on the data-side inside rim. We've been getting these CDs regularly at the radio atation I work for, and for computer previewing they're a real pain.

The way the protection works is by adding tracks (containing corrupt CD-R data) after Track 1 (containing the audio data). This is fine for AudioCD players because they only read Track 1. Standard CD-ROM drives also have no problem, because they ignore the data they can't understand (I think it's a form of corrupt extra session data).

CD-R/CD-RW/Combo drives however attempt to find these extra sessions/writeable areas and when they fail, assume the CD is corrupted and eject it.

What a fantastic copy control scheme, huh? Can't read the disk with a burner, but you can certainly copy it by doing a CD-ROM -> CD-RW copy. And then you can play the burnt copy. Ingenious.

I also wrote to EMI and to News Limited (in response to an earlier story they ran) about my troubles, but neither cared (possibly because I hadn't purchased the CDs in question, they were radio use only).

Re:CD-RW Drives are the Problem (2, Informative)

TripleA (232889) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952665)

No way dude, you are all wrong.
Regular CD-ROM drives can't read the copy protected CDs, whilst CDRW drives can. Why? They are a) newer (When did you upgrade your CDROM drive the last time? Do you even have one?) b) smarter. A regular CDRW drive has much more control of it's reading mechanism. Pop your copy protected CDs into a new Plextor drive, and voila!

Radio use ONLY?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952718)

Shite man! Who actually SELLS their product? They should be giving you more respect than that. Play Local Indie stuff for a week and see how long it takes them to return your calls! :-D

Re:CD-RW Drives are the Problem (1)

TAZ6416 (584004) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952727)

I have a Siemens SL45 phone/MP3 Player and first thing I do is make a copy of a CD so I can listen to it on my phone. I bought Robbie William's last album and like Norah's it has Copy Control protection. Except that I noticed this about a month later when I spotted a small sticker on the case and I had been listening to the MP3's for a month :)

When I tried to copy it again in my CD-Rom, I noticed that it did a lot of seeking and took about 40 minutes to do a perfect copy (under XP) instead of about 10 that it should have. I never noticed it at the time, I must have walked away and left the computer while it was copying.

So... Copy Control sucks and is easy to bypass... if you're patient.


Concerns about the CD (3, Interesting)

PatoLucas (627477) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952574)

from the article (EMI's answer) "As the technology was created to be played through its own embedded player on the CD itself and not any other player that is currently available to the PC/Apple, it will cause anomalies if played in any other manner." Wasn't the technology (CD) created to be played on any compliant CD reader (may it be a Standalone Audio player or a CD-ROM from ANY computer platform). OK, so they are not standard. And they say so in the artwork (don't they?). So the should prohibit them to sell those non-CD mixed with the REAL CD (with the CD-AUDIO label) because they are confusing the consumer (at least with Spain's laws, this could be defendable). They should place them in the NON-CD-AUDIO department of the department stores and NOT in traditional music stores. Let see what they think of copy protection then. Just my 0.02

Re:Concerns about the CD (1)

WegianWarrior (649800) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952617)

I was puzzled by it myself. As far as I have understood, a CD has to comply to one of the standards to be a CD - which make these copy-protected discs 'near-CDs'. I think I read something about Phillips - who holds the rights to the CD - throwing a hissy cow a while back over these crippled discs beeing labeled as CDs, but I can't find the link right now. Any takers?

reminds me of ... (2, Funny)

mirko (198274) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952575)

I recently bought the latest opus of "Asian Dub Foundation" which wasn't carrying Philips CDDA logo but some "copy-protected-whatever logo instead.
I tried it in a pc.
It launched a shitty player.
I put it in my iBook, I could iTune it, except the first track.
I then clicked on the audio cd icon and could import the last track by just drag'n dropping it on the desktop, then encoding it in iTune.
I guess Copy-protected is some kind of MS trademark :-)

Future CDs and DRM? (1)

harikiri (211017) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952578)

I'm thankful that I'm yet to purchase any of these "crippled" CDs. Most people I know who work in the standard office environment (ie, computer on their desk), purchase CDs with the expectation they can listen to them at work.

That it didn't work on microsoft windows (2000 and XP) is amazing to me.

I can easily imagine that future CDs will include a DRM player of their own that will most likely hook into the operating systems' own DRM. This possibility is damn scary, not to mention a pain in the ass for the regular consumer.

Damn, they just lost another sale... (3, Insightful)

TrentC (11023) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952580)

...I was waiting for that CD to come back in at work before I could buy it again. But since I lsiten to all of my music on my Mac, I guess I won't be buying it. Or, worst case, I'll just download the tracks off of iTunes Music Store and make my own CD.

Yay, copy-protection technology; costing you more business than it will "save" you.


I had the same problem with EMI (2, Informative)

stewartj (525869) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952608)

I'm also in Australia, and I bought the Norah Jones CD. It wouldn't play on my Windows2000 box at work, nor my Mandrake9.1 machine at home. I tried to copy the CD, but I couldn't get the data off it digitally without getting a whole bunch of clicks and pops. Luckily a friend of mine had a US copy of it, so I copied that, and all is well. I vowed never to buy another CD from EMI ever again.

The next day my girlfriend went out and bought Ben Harper's "Diamonds on the Inside", which was released by EMI and featured a big copy protection symbol on the front. Strangely, this one was recognised immediately by every machine I put it in, no problems. I used grip to make copies I can carry around on my Zaurus, and it worked first time, no problems, no clicks or pops. Same company, same copy protection mechanism, what gives?

(Not that I'm complaining!)

Norah Jones copy protected? (1)

Fefe (6964) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952614)

That is strange because in Europe the Norah Jones CD is one of the few titles that is not copy protected.

I wouldn't have bought it otherwise. I will not have my money be used to fund consumer crippling technology.

Boycott, with a twist (5, Interesting)

Looke (260398) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952623)

Of course, we should boycott artists and record companies that use copy protection (playback protection?). But we should do it in a way that causes the most inconvenience for the stores and record companies:

  • Buy the record as usual. Keep the receipt.
  • Return the record the next day, claiming that it doesn't work. Get a second disc, "just to see if that works".
  • Return the second one as well, and claim a refund. Say that you've found out that the copy protection interferes with your CD players. You don't have to mention computers or copying, just say that it doesn't work.
  • Make sure the record store notifies the record company instead of just putting the record back on the shelf.

The store is obliged to pay the refund when the product doesn't work. A "copy protected" disc is not a CD, even if it's (misleadingly) sold as one.

I heard that the latest, copy protected, Robin Williams album was sold in more than 100.000 copies in my country. No more than 10 discs were returned. Let's make that number higher!

Need gay DVD and CD (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952626)

Thanks to Slashdot, I'm a new recruit to the world of gayness. Can some of the "veterans" around here recommend some highly gay CD and DVD entertainment? 'Preciate it.

Really simple solution. (1)

comet_11 (611321) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952628)

Just stop buying CDs. It's only made me happier and richer. Until refusing to buy their music becomes a violation of the DMCA, I think I'm safe.

Re:Really simple solution. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952655)

Not if you download all of your music, you stupid fuck!

Wouldn't a more interesting title be... (1, Insightful)

hype7 (239530) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952647)

"When Copy Protection Works"?

I mean, come on... it only worked if he copied it! Hello?

-- james

Copy protection is currently impossible. (5, Insightful)

Photar (5491) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952653)

And this it why:

Copy protection only works in systems that have been designed from the ground up to be copy protected.

Any video or audio that is decodeable on a PC can be hijacked from that same PC.

The only way to protect your data is to control the hardware. The only reason DVDs are hard to copy is because you can't get a DVD-r that has the same capacity.

the MPIAA is in a much better situation compared to the RIAA considering cd audio is already good enough, that consumers don't really feel the need to switch to a higher quality version of the CD. Where on the other hand, DVDs are much better than VHS tapes, and have the added benefit of being harder to copy.

lucky for consumers... (4, Insightful)

MoFoYa (644563) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952662)

they can't yet put copy "protection" on an analog signal; which everything that makes sound must eventually send to an output. then we have a beautiful little thing called an analog input that makes ALL copy protection pointless.

if the primary purpose for the copy "speedbump" is to keep the MP3's off file sharing networks i.e. Kazaa, then it's not going to work. there is someone out there patient enough to encode in real time while listening to the cd.

the problem thw RIAA and Co. face is: the file sharing networks - not the consumer that wants to listen to his/her new cd on the computer or make a backup copy because the originals always get all scratched up on the floorboard of the car.

Re:lucky for consumers... (2, Insightful)

tbirdsaw (673194) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952683)

True... As far as I know, there isn't any analog protection for analog audio (except making it sound really crappy... but who'd listen to it then?)

There is analog video protection (MacroVision), but there are boxes that allow you to circumvent it (*ahem*... "to clean up the video" ;) )

In my book, it's the classic NSA security problem: how you do make a code that is strong enough that most people can't decrypt it, but weak enough that they can? (I hope that's somewhat relevent...)

Just my 2 cents....

Why oh why (5, Insightful)

nate nice (672391) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952677)

are they (record companies) so scared? No one wants to rip them off. Most people are going to buy their albums, regardless of format. Sure, some people will steal their stuff, and I have grabed some albums from friends that I never bought, but that;s how it works. I buy most of my music, but I have bought bad music and I can't get a refund.

I guess my point is, they should really stop alienating their customers. I have never seen a business model that treats their customers so badly. People are still going to buy your albums! We made copies of cassette tapes, we're going to make copies of CD's and were giong to make copies of MP3's. Get over it, it's how it works. You're still going to make so much money! Get over it, ok?

They're probably spending more money fighting this stupid war on whatever than they are going to save. All they are doing is making people resent them and want to steal from to the point where smart people are going to keep cracking their stuff and become passionate about distributing it all. Another day, another enemy for the RIAA. Because of their actions, I would wadger that they have made many people angry to the point where they don't want to buy their albums, where they want to steal their albums and frankly, it's a war they will not win. You cannot go to war with your consumers. They are your friends!

Think about it, what other business would do this? If you walked into a store and they started accusing you of stealing and would only sell you things in such a way where you were oblivious to most of what it contained and treated you like shit all around, who would come back? I'm getting to the point where I'm going to want to steal all their music, just to spite them.

In short, they need to settle down and just accept the market as it is. They choose a digital format because it is VERY cheap to make, thus increasing profits one billion fold and yet cannot cope with the fact that this cheap medium will also allow people to send a "free" album out to someone from time to time.

And lets face it, I would bet most albums people download etc are albums they probably would not buy in the first place. How many play lists of people have you seen that have tons of songs you know they would never buy anyways?

Anyways, the main point is that the customer just BOUGHT the album, WTF are you doing? They B-O-U-G-H-T it!


Worked for me (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952678)

I bought the Norah Jones disc (is it a redbook CD or just a disc?) here in Australia, and it worked fine for me.

My machine is a Mac G4 (Aug'99) with a new-ish LG CD-RW/DVD-ROM combo drive I put in recently.

Not only did the disc play from iTunes (without fault), it ripped to mp3 with no problems at all. The disc even includes a little stand-alone app to play it in Windows, Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X. That worked too (from OS X).

Same with the Ben Harper disc.

It seems as though this copy protection is patchy at best. Not the sort of thing the industry should stake their reputation on.

Evil Empire. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5952684)

See why I do not buy music?

Hell, I just bought three Blind Guardian CDs, a band that 99 percent of stupid Americans have probably never heard of, and I feel like a traitor.

I then uploaded the mp3s I ripped to my share folder to repent for my sins, to help people on k-lite find this admittedly hard-to-find band.

I had a dream last night where I killed Hilary Rosen. When I played SOF II today, I wondered to myself, "does Jack Valenti live in a mansion like this?" as I shot off the limbs of drug dealers and cartel members. Meanwhile, Kazaa was running in the BG, downloading Spider Man ;)

The RIAA and MPAA have nobody but themselves to blame for their fucking image. They made themselves out to be the evil empire, and nobody likes an evil empire.

I had to do the same (3, Informative)

clare-ents (153285) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952688)

See also

How I patched cdparanoia to copy Avril Lavigne in order to play it under linux.

Copy Protection will NEVER be possible (1)

ajs318 (655362) | more than 11 years ago | (#5952705)

As long as it's possible to hold a mic up to a speaker. Or to hook up a 2 x audio - 3.5 stereo lead between a standalone player and a PC sound card {but notice how line-in jacks seem to be an endangered species these days..... coincidence?}

Of course that way you won't get bit-perfect digital copies, but there'll be a hard core of audiophiles {Note to News of the World readers: an audiophile is a hi-fi bore, not some kind of pervert} who will be fastidious about the quality of the copies they're making, and these copies will be copiable digitally, so the whole exercise will have been futile from the point of view of the record companies.

Incidentally, I copied a copy of the Norah Jones disc, using the usual method of cdparanoia -B; for i in *wav; do lame -h $i && rm $i; done and it worked. Don't know how the original was protected, but the owner of the disc is a serious hacker. Jennifer Lopez's "J to tha L-O" [Sony/EPIC] didn't copy on that same {read-only} drive - in fact, it actually crashed the drive's firmware requiring a plug-pull {but the kernel and even the X-server survived unscathed}. On a Windoze box, Winamp started but no sound. I remember similar issues with Shakira's "Laundry Service" [Sony/EPIC; same protection], but I've got a drive {Sony, would you adam and eve!} on one of my machines that read it OK with cdparanoia. In the process, though, I learned more than anyone ever needs to know about IDE-SCSI emulation .....
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