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Monday, The Death of Websites

Hemos posted more than 11 years ago | from the just-one-more-feature dept.

The Internet 207

An anonymous reader writes "Developers implementing 'weekend inspiration' are more dangerous than hackers. Vnunet.com has this article about how eager developers and administrators create more troubles than hackers and viruses do for websites. How about those of us who start the week with a cup of coffee and the morning online-news? My inspiration and new ideas for development are definitely not the cause of the Monday-crash hour ... I think."

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The Death of Slashdot??? (2, Funny)

corebreech (469871) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991830)

You all died? Where are all the posts?

Does this mean I shouldn't expect anymore karma?

Re:The Death of Slashdot??? (1)

Apollo Jones (673555) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991839)

Yeah I noticed that too, maybe its the result of 'Manic Monday' syndrome that is mentioned in the article!

Re:The Death of Slashdot??? (1)

bumby (589283) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991844)

This was strange... Some kind of joke or what?

Re:The Death of Slashdot??? (1)

AVee (557523) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991880)

Well at least i'm able to replay, but hey, it's 6 pm here in Holland...

Re:The Death of Slashdot??? (3, Funny)

johnalex (147270) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991883)

Sorry, the developers can't post because they're trying to recover from crashing their servers. I'm posting only because my weekend ideas didn't crash the server this week.

Does this mean that Monday mornings are peak productivity times for developers?

Re:The Death of Slashdot??? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5991910)

Yes. No Karma for you. Come back 1 year.

Isn't someone going to take FP? (-1, Offtopic)

Bronz (429622) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991835)

Boobies

YOU FAILED IT!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5991852)

No boobies for you!

Great sample:) (5, Insightful)

EnlightenedDuck (621201) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991854)

They did a survey of 70 leading websites over a nine week period - one needs to wonder who picked those 70 leading websites, and in what sense they are considered leading or typical.

And if slashdotting causes more downtime than developer mistakes, couldn't one argue that interesting content is more harmful than bad code for website uptime?

Re:Great sample:) (2, Interesting)

yoshi_mon (172895) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992038)

Indeed.

A Google search for even the word "website" came back with: Results 1 - 10 of about 68,800,000.

Even with that number, which I would estimate to be low of the total number of websites in existance, that puts the 70 site survay at .0000102% of all the websites (Granted those are pages but you get the idea.) in the world.

Re:Great sample:) (1)

JohnFluxx (413620) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992295)

Statistically it is enough tho, as long as the 70 were picked fairly (randomly).

Re:Great sample:) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992367)

searching for http gives 234,000,000 hits, which i guess is slightly more usefull in this case.

also, when you look at the page rank, yahoo is first, then google, and then Adobe? i can understand google and yahoo, but what is Adobe doing there?

day traders (4, Interesting)

prgrmr (568806) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991862)

Has anyone done any sort of bandwidth study looking at sites like etrade and yahoo, for purposes of determining any correlation between bandwidth consumption and movement on the stock markets? Intuition says that Monday mornings ought to see some sort of correlated spike.

Re:day traders (4, Funny)

Consul (119169) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992202)

Has anyone done any sort of bandwidth study looking at sites like etrade and yahoo, for purposes of determining any correlation between bandwidth consumption and movement on the stock markets?

Maybe you should lead the way in doing this study. Then, you can publish your results, get Slashdotted, and become an inexplicably famous Internet personality! ;-)

Emphasizing the story? (4, Funny)

h2oliu (38090) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991865)

I log in, the story is a few hours old, and there are 4 posts. Slashdot implementing the theory?

Re:Emphasizing the story? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992381)

did you miss the memo?
all .orgs died, and that includes /.

The cause of bugs (5, Funny)

aggressivepedestrian (149887) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991876)

This guy has just solved the software problem:
Neal Gandhi, vice president of product management at Attenda, said: "The quietest time of year for website problems is over Christmas and New Year because the development teams are away, even though it's a busy time for consumer websites. "Then, as soon as you see the developers logging on again, the trouble starts."
So, software bugs are caused by developers working on software. The solution is clear: all those VPs of product management should just pay us web developers to stay home.

Re:The cause of bugs (4, Funny)

Rick the Red (307103) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992003)

STOP ME BEFORE I CODE AGAIN!

Re:The cause of bugs (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992065)

Mr. Gandhi has his cause and effect a little mixed up, and I think he's implying that new development shouldn't ever introduce new bugs, which is a little silly.

For the concrete "holiday lockdown" example, I think he's only partially right. In my development group, we explicitly lock down ALL changes to our production web apps well before, and all through, the Christmas shopping season, to prevent the inadvertent introduction of any (new) bugs. It's not a side effect of vacation time -- it's an explicit operations decision to reduce the risk of breakage.

So, yeah, while we're not touching it the stability seems to increase, but no existing (but less critical) bugs get fixed either. No large-scale app is bug-free -- the lockdown period just seems to stabilize things but it's an illusion caused by the lack of new species of bugs popping up.

In the more abstract "development introduces bugs" sense, it's a fact of life in complex systems that new code means new bugs -- and if we never introduced new code (->features) then we'd lose customers. So I take his statement to imply that we should only be introducing 100% bug-free code -- which is a PHB pipe dream.

Re:The cause of bugs (2, Insightful)

spirality (188417) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992210)

Mr. Gandhi has his cause and effect a little mixed up, and I think he's implying that new development shouldn't ever introduce new bugs, which is a little silly.

He does have a valid point about testing before putting code into production and being able to roll back changes. That's all pretty obvious stuff.

The mention of managers pressuring for changes, but not allowing for adequate testing time is also typical.

-Craig.

Re:The cause of bugs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992323)

So, software bugs are caused by developers working on software.

You thought it was Gremlins, maybe?

Re:The cause of bugs (1)

Cromac (610264) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992488)

So, software bugs are caused by developers working on software.

I would say that software bugs seen by end users are the fault of the QA department and/or project management. If the PM's allow untested code to be put on a live server then they're responsible, if it goes through QA and still has obvious blocking bugs the fault lies on QA.

Everyone writes code with bugs in it, it's the responsibility of QA to find them and see they're fixed before the end user.

Not just Programmers (4, Insightful)

UCRowerG (523510) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991877)

"However, you still get managers who don't understand the technology and want changes implemented yesterday. If it goes wrong it's the developer that ends up with egg on the face."

The article suggests that developers come back from their weekends and start fiddling with websites, but I think this last paragraph is perhaps equally or more accurate. Managers get "inspired" over the weekend just as much as code writers.

Re:Not just Programmers (5, Insightful)

AVee (557523) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991932)

Yes and guess who get to decide what is going to be implemented and when thats going to happen?
Like:
No, Im sure it's a great idea, so just do it. I want it done before 10am.

smelly (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5991902)

lol! take a shower you dirty opensource hippies!

Sysop on vacation syndrome (4, Funny)

British (51765) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991904)

Reminds me of the BBS days. Usually a few hours after the SysOp leaves on vacation, the BBS is guaranteed to go down.

Re:Sysop on vacation syndrome (2, Funny)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992449)

"Reminds me of the BBS days. Usually a few hours after the SysOp leaves on vacation, the BBS is guaranteed to go down. "

My boss went on a trip to Europe for a month. A few months previously, she had two racks full of servers managing our needs. It all ran like clockwork. Of course, this one-month trip included a 2 week stint where she couldn't be reached. The day after she was completely out of contact, *poof*. I shit you not, there was a *poof*. Something on the motherboard let all it's smoke out. Of course, it was the mail server. Not only did I get to learn how to build a mail server, I also learned that RAID drives don't like hopping cards!

I now appreciate leaving as early as 6.

Re:Sysop on vacation syndrome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992455)

I used to run a BBS, and to prevent this from happening I attached the computer to one of those electric vacation timers. Every day at 5, WHAM! the thing shut down and would power back up 15 minutes later.

I can't think of any reason why they don't implement this on webservers ;)

Unprofessional development (5, Insightful)

wowbagger (69688) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991906)

This is nothing but unprofessional development - the old "Oh, this is soooo good and sooo simple, how can it possibly cause troub..... <NO CARRIER>".

Any codebase, be it a program, a web site, or a router's firewall rules, should be changed IN TEST FIRST! Then you do your best to break it, and only after you and several others have had at it do you move it to production/HEAD/whatever (and hold your breath).

If you had a wonderful idea over the weekend, GREAT! Implement it in a test branch, try it out, and then move it to production. But if you merge it into the mainline without testing you are not acting professionally.

I will give the /. crew this: while their spelling may be atrocious, their grasp of grammer poor, and their fact and dup checking next to non-existent, they will put major changes to the codebase into Banjo first, then after they've been abused put them into the main /. site.

At least, some of the time.

Re:Unprofessional development (3, Insightful)

Blaine Hilton (626259) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992143)

The biggest problem I see is that sometimes a change is so simple it seems better to just go direct to the liver server, then all of sudden everything is down and you can't figure out what went wrong with the change.

Re:Unprofessional development (5, Funny)

tadas (34825) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992238)

I could see the "liver server" going down after the weekend

Re:Unprofessional development (5, Funny)

gughunter (188183) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992160)

while their spelling may be atrocious, their grasp of grammer poor

"Grammer"? You're just trolling, aren't you?

Re:Unprofessional development (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992321)

AFAIK it is "grammar"

Re:Unprofessional development (1)

JordanH (75307) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992500)

  • Any codebase, be it a program, a web site, or a router's firewall rules, should be changed IN TEST FIRST! Then you do your best to break it, and only after you and several others have had at it do you move it to production/HEAD/whatever (and hold your breath).

What a great idea! We all know that testing is exhaustive and that issues never occur in Production that are not fully addressed on the Test system.

Maybe Monday is the day a lot of sites move changes into Production?

OMG (2, Funny)

Lane.exe (672783) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991911)

OMFG I broke teh Intarweb this morning!

wow (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5991916)

This story is so lame that people don't even want to post comments in it. +1 Informative

Developers shouldn't be able to break stuff (5, Insightful)

CTho9305 (264265) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991921)

In any properly managed environment, developers don't get to [i]touch[/i] the production environment. If they do, it should be read-only. All changes are made in the dev environment (developers can do what they want), put into test (developers are seriously limited), and then finally into production. Prod should be a physically separate set of servers from dev & test.

If stuff breaks on Mondays, either someone is skipping steps, or there is more going on.

Re:Developers shouldn't be able to break stuff (4, Funny)

mog (22706) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991957)

If stuff breaks on Mondays, either someone is skipping steps, or there is more going on.

You mean something like this?

if (day == MONDAY) {
die_you_scum_sucking_pigdog ();
}

Re:Developers shouldn't be able to break stuff (5, Funny)

John3 (85454) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992023)

Your server (in sig) is down. Should I check back on Tuesday?

Re:Developers shouldn't be able to break stuff (1)

sxltrex (198448) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992373)

[i]touch[/i]


Preview==development environment.

Re:Developers shouldn't be able to break stuff (1)

efflux (587195) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992376)

Isn't this the point of the article? Thanks for pointing it out to the less discerning of the readers. Though, I must admit, the article was sparse on actual remedies or even any ideas in general.

Re:Developers shouldn't be able to break stuff (3, Interesting)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992471)

That's fine and dandy if you have an large IT staff to do all that, but most of my friends have jobs where there are less than 3 people doing all the development, myself included.

I enforce upon myself the requirement to run new code on a test server first, but a formal and managed development environment just isn't going to happen at small companies, or larger companies with small dev staffs.

Then there is also the issue of things that are extremely difficult to model in a test environment. Complex failures. Failures that may not show up in a unit type test, but only show up when components interact. It is possible to model some of these things, but sometimes the unit testing code would be larger than the code under test. This is also not practical for a smaller development group.

Manic monday eh? (5, Interesting)

TheCarp (96830) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991925)

Sounds alot more like lack of a proper devlopment environment to me.

I mean its easy for it to happen. We had problems like this with our monitoring system (tho it was manic friday where someone would attemtp to impliment something before the weekend because of course, the weekend is when you want pages the least so you want to get anything that causes false pages fixed on friday to maximize enjoyment of the weekend)

Now we have development and test servers where things live BEFORE they go production. I never had any idea that it would help so much until we finnaly implimented it.

-Steve

Hemos needs to lay off the crack... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5991928)

because he sure must have been smoking a shitload of it to post this story.

Tesing (5, Funny)

mgrennan (2067) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991942)

I guess these sites don't test anyting. Maybe they are talking about small sites. I work for a big car company. We have three stages of testing.

I'm not saying the artical is wrong. The developers are still the biggest problem with our web site. It just doesn't always happen on Monday. Some times it takes tell Wednesday to get through the system. :-)

What is it about developers? (5, Interesting)

BrianUofR (143023) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991966)

Just a thought: The rest of the world lumps all of us IT people together; the distinction between, say, a "developer" and "sysadmin" means nothing to my non-geek friends.

I don't think stuff like this happens often to sysadmins or DBAs. How often do you come into work on a monday and decide to migrate to xfs because you read on slashdot over the weekend that SGI ported it to linux, and SGI is cool? Likewise, how often does an Oracle DBA decide on Monday to move some production tablespaces over to rawfs from cooked, because she read a whitepaper from Oracle on Saturday that talked about performance increases from raw filesystems?

I've written a lot of code, and also sysadmin'd an awful lot of servers, and in my experience probably 90% of "production outages" are software changes--exactly like the article said--poor change control, etc etc. So, what's the point of dynamic multipathing, patching, dual power supplies, etc etc, when most problems occur because someone got excited and forgot a semicolon somewhere?

Is it fair to say that sysadmins fix things and developers break them? What is different about a software engineer's brain than a systems engineers? Talk amongst yourselves :)

Re:What is it about developers? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992232)

You're joking right? The difference is that the developer's job is to make changes and the sysadmins's job is to prevent changes. Which goal is more likely to cause outages?

Re:What is it about developers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992274)

What is different about a software engineer's brain than a systems engineers? Talk amongst yourselves :)

There is no difference... They're both managed by the same incompetent moron...

Re:What is it about developers? (4, Insightful)

Enzondio (110173) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992306)

I don't think stuff like this happens often to sysadmins or DBAs. How often do you come into work on a monday and decide to migrate to xfs because you read on slashdot over the weekend that SGI ported it to linux, and SGI is cool? Likewise, how often does an Oracle DBA decide on Monday to move some production tablespaces over to rawfs from cooked, because she read a whitepaper from Oracle on Saturday that talked about performance increases from raw filesystems?

Well, first of all those are all pretty big changes. No developer worth a damn would try to do something that massive over a weekend, by himself. Also in general I think there is more possibility of a small change causing big problems in development work than IT work, although this certainly does happen with IT, as I can attest to, having spent many a late night struggling with some sever setup or what have you.

Is it fair to say that sysadmins fix things and developers break them? What is different about a software engineer's brain than a systems engineers? Talk amongst yourselves :)

Again I think it comes back to the job of a developer, not being harder per se, but perhaps being ... more experimental. Much of what is done in the IT world has been done by many other people many other times and so one can draw from that experience. This is true in the development world as well, but I believe to a lesser degree.

Re:What is it about developers? (5, Insightful)

teromajusa (445906) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992319)

"Is it fair to say that sysadmins fix things and developers break them?"

Not in my experience. I've seen sysadmins break software by installing security patches, changing server passwords, changing firewall rules, restarting servers at the wrong time, swapping hardware, tinkering with network topology, failing to follow proper startup or shutdown proceedures, failing to perform necessary maintenance, etc. DBAs can cause just as much trouble tinkering with optimization, DB parameters, passwords, etc.

Thing is, anyone involved in the software process in any meaningful way can break it if they do something stupid, and in my experience, stupidity is not a trait confined to a particular profession, culture, religion, or ethnicity but is shared generally by all.

Re:What is it about developers? (1)

KyleNicholson (629756) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992487)

I do not know who will admit it but I am one of these people who cause the monday crash. I get a cool new idea type some code for an hour or two and bam roll it out. Hey it isn't my fault they didn't buy me a test enviroment. I think it comes down to personality though. I am great at creating and inventing new things, but I become easily bored with the idea once I solve how it should work. A Psyco-doctor once told me that was common for people with ENTP personnalities, and many computer people are ENTPs.

Taking the point to its logical conclusion (1)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991970)

if developers hurt a website more than viruses, then surely sites with more developers crash more, and sites with fewer developers crash less. Thus, the site with the most developers working on it has the most problems, and all sites with 1 developer have incredibly few problems. My personal site doesnt have enough complicated stuff on it to really "crash" per se, so obviously less developers means less bugs in that way. So, whose site has the most programmers working on it? Hmmm.... of course, the largest software company [microsoft.com] !

Am I crazy? (3, Insightful)

cruppel (603595) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991977)

or do those developers need to possibly develop on a copy of the website not accessible to the public? I mean, it's not hat hard to hit cp -R and transfer your updated functioning website to the primary directory...Maybe I'm the only one that doesn't tinker with things that people are hitting as I type.

Re:Am I crazy? (1)

teromajusa (445906) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992475)

" I mean, it's not hat hard to hit cp -R and transfer your updated functioning website to the primary directory..."

The problem isn't people editing files that are in production (except in cases of extreme stupidity) The problem is that code isn't tested adequately. Even when it is, you can still have problems moving it to production due to high load or poor deployment. Most big websites are a lot more complicated then a directory tree with a few html pages and some CGIs. cp -R isn't going to make changes to the database or cleanly restart back-end applications, or ensure that the proper versions of applications or libraries are installed.

Changes on Monday? (3, Interesting)

borkus (179118) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991979)

On retail and B2B sites, Monday is usually a busy day. Customers are rolling into their offices with articles to read, facts to research and stuff to buy. Out of the seven days of the week, it'd be the worst for making a change.

On the other hand, I'm not sure incremental development is that much worse than large releases. You're either releasing a bug or two a week or waiting eight weeks to release all your bugs at one time.

Where'd it go? (1)

mschoolbus (627182) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991984)

Monday, The Death of Websites

Yeah... Unless you are a /. subscriber!

It's better than Friday, stupid. (5, Insightful)

KFury (19522) | more than 11 years ago | (#5991985)

The tone of the article talks about shoot-from-the-hip developers acting irresponsibly, on impulse. They're taking a recognized and thoughtful practice and painting it as irresponsibility.

Monday is the best time to implement changes to most sites. The irresponsible coder implements on Friday, when errors might not be caught, or fixed, until the next working day, after a full weekend of downtime, bugginess, or insecure behavior.

But that wouldn't make for an interesting story. News flash: updating code often results in bugs that need to be fixed. When do the authors suggest we roll out new versions?

Nope - Tuesday or Thursday (4, Interesting)

kelleher (29528) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992201)

When I was responsible for the Internet site of a rather large national bank, we only accepted change requests for Tuesday and Thursday mornings. It was just easier for the operators to get hold of a sober developer/administrator at 02:00 on a Tuesday or a Thursday than any other time. And getting a contact on the business side to ok a rollback that caused contract issues on the weekend was near impossible.

Speaking of bad stuff (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992001)

What about SUPPORT sites that continually change their links, I think that if there ever needs to be a LAW, it is regarding support websites. Front upper LEFT, a STATIC neverchanging link to PHONE SUPPORT. (With the real phone numbers)Right under that a RMA link, again STATIC, then and only then can the site talk about products!

I hate manufacturers who let their "webmaster" change links that people have come to depend upon. They are not webmasters, they are webBASTARDS.

hmmmm (2, Funny)

bilbobuggins (535860) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992005)

that's odd
i tend to spend the weekend trying to think of excuses to avoid doing any work on monday morning, somehow i figured other people did the same thing

p.s. our website hasn't gone down in 2 years, go figure

Re:hmmmm (1, Flamebait)

outsider007 (115534) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992266)

that's odd
i tend to spend the weekend getting blowjobs from hookers behind the circleK, somehow i figured other people did the same thing

Re:hmmmm (1)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992519)

"i tend to spend the weekend getting blowjobs from hookers behind the circleK, somehow i figured other people did the same thing "

I wish my group of friends had thought of that.

Sounds about right (2, Insightful)

Stargoat (658863) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992012)

This really isn't surprising. The most dangerous person to a network is the person who has the administrator password.

Mondays & Fridays Should Be Banned! (5, Interesting)

problemchild (143094) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992014)

While working for a large nameless Telecoms Company,
I and my fellow Contractors had an unwritten rule to "hold off" on all "good" ideas generated in meetings etc on Monday & Friday. Almost inevitably they would
all be canceled within a couple of days. Not subjecting ourselves to post/pre weekend madness saved ourselves a ton of work and helped us bring the project in on time!!

Re:Mondays & Fridays Should Be Banned! (1)

wkitchen (581276) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992174)

While working for a large nameless Telecoms Company, I and my fellow Contractors had an unwritten rule to "hold off" on all "good" ideas generated in meetings etc on Monday & Friday. Almost inevitably they would all be canceled within a couple of days. Not subjecting ourselves to post/pre weekend madness saved ourselves a ton of work and helped us bring the project in on time!!
Wouldn't that just relocate the "weekend madness" to Tuesday and Thursday?

Re:Mondays & Fridays Should Be Banned! (1)

problemchild (143094) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992229)

I Generaly found that the 3 Sane days in the week generated enough work for at least 5 and probably 7 days a week. So therefore it was no great odds to back peddle on the crap for a few days. If it got canceled great if not we fitted in a few days late which in reality was just fine. It's shocking to think how much of our time is wasted on fool's erands....we just decided to think before we just did so we are now all still more or less sane..lol

Alternate Theory (1)

Tsali (594389) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992021)

My theory is much more simple. Everyone on the Western half of the planet is going back to work and they really don't want to be working, so they *gasp* - hit the internet. I also believe people are more likely to be home at New Year's and Christmas in addition to the developers.

Well thought out article. I put less thought in my article, which is why it is at Slashdot.

Re:Alternate Theory (1)

Lane.exe (672783) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992071)

Lose! Very few of these people actually have Internet connections at work, and over New Year's and Christmas (when they're home, where a majority of them have connections) the websites are up longer. What happens is that these developers make changes to websites and then have to upload the changes. All those uploads at once tends to actually choke bandwidth. Mere access doesn't necessarily do that.

Re:Alternate Theory (1)

Tsali (594389) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992218)

Well, I would argue that business website access (and all the related spam) is much higher than you would think. Why else do you have corporate solutions for spam and blocking internet access while you're on the job? There are a ton of people surfing when they shouldn't be - on a Monday.

But who knows? I don't think either of us is right because there's no way to really know without doing more research on it.

Which is why I'm posting at Slashdot. :-)

Intranet Websites Crashing (1)

citadelgrad (612423) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992045)

In my experience we have had more problems with several of our intranet sites then internet sites. They just update the content on the internet websites whereas the intranet site they are always trying to make enhancements.

Weekend Update (3, Informative)

Rick the Red (307103) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992060)

Websites crash Monday because they're usually updated over the weekend.

They talk as if the developer has an idea over the weekend, then comes in Monday morning and implements this idea without any testing. But if that were true, the websites would crash Tuesday. I mean, really, how many of you think these guys are really making the changes Monday morning and the websites are thus breaking Monday morning? Any changes you see Monday morning were loaded over the weekend, and are probably the result of all last-week's work. Whatever ideas anyone got over the weekend will be coded and tested this week and installed next weekend; they won't show up until next Monday at the earliest.

Re:Weekend Update (1)

Sanga (125777) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992350)

It is monday because the poor hassled developer was strung up on caffeine and junk food over the weekend trying to put this together.

My cause for Monday morning crashes (5, Funny)

UncleAlias (157955) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992102)

Log in.

Cup of coffee.

Browse online forums.

Read witty remark.

C|N>K

Change keyboard. Curse profusely.

I would fire the IT staff (2, Interesting)

krray (605395) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992122)

I, as IT director, would fire my IT staff if they pulled this. Considering that I have some systems with uptimes in YEARS, a few going on a DECADE, and over-all the _entire_ network has worked 24x7 for the last 10 years. Our business operations isn't even Internet based (we just happen to use it -- primarily for email) and the operations of the systems isn't life-critical. We just like our computers/networks to work.

Of course I'm the one that implemented a testing domain (live on the Net) for just such purposes. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER "test" anything on a production system. I can't even think of any installations that were not tested for MONTHS "offline" before being implemented. When the day comes to install there usually aren't any shockers either. It just works.

Of course I'm the one that's NEVER allowed a Windows server to even be a consideration. "Are you NUTS?"

Re:I would fire the IT staff (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992282)

Trolling.

Re:I would fire the IT staff (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992534)

Yeah, you're an IT director. Amazed you have time with your busy 'patting-myself-on-the-back' schedule. Thanks for horseless carriages and sliced bread too.

Oh, AND your CAPS LOCK seems to be MALfunTIONING.

programmers want their weekends (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992129)

that is why everything they promised by friday (but havn't tested yet) is not installed until monday morning. that way they can relax on the weekend.

i know i NEVER update a customers site on friday (especially not on friday afternoon).

You UK guys need to work on this (2, Interesting)

heck (609097) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992141)

I'm going to start with pointing out that the first sentence of the article said "UK websites", not "US". Obviously that means the people across the Pond need to work on this.

And what a surprise that when people roll out changes sometimes things break. Oh My God. Have you cured cancer yet?

And I'd say more often than not the "problems" on Monday are caused by bug fixes that developers are rushing on to production to fix bugs that were found over the weekend. And, as we all know, sometimes bug fixes skip QA...

Seriously, most places I work have Go Live set to be Monday, or, more often, Tuesday. You go live when you have already tested it; its gone through QA; and you're sure the staff is there. Tuesday is the better date in order to deal with key people taking long weekends, and it gives you two or three days to fix issues before the next weekend. Besides, Mondays are already hellish without adding "release new version" to the list of torments.

Inspiration and discipline.. both needed (4, Insightful)

mwillems (266506) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992144)

Seems to me we are talking about several different things here.

First of all, presumably it is a good thing that people think, and get inspiration. Mon-Fri 9-5 is not the best time for thinking - this is the time for meeting deadlines, sitting in meetings, answering the phone, putting out fires, and so on. The only time most of us have to actually sit and think is the weekend. Personally, I think that should be encouraged.

The next step is implmenting what you have dreamt up. Obviously, most ideas fail - ask any patent officer. And obviulsly, implmenting a new idea without checking with colleagues, drawing it 0ut in a spec, getting that spec approved, then protoyping, testing, tuning is not ideal either. These procedures were invented for good reasons - not just to constrain the creative mind. This is where most developers fail - not in coming up with ideas, but in being disiplined in implmenting them. I hear "we cannot plan ahead, it does not work like that for us" all the time from my developers - this is always a misconception, and seems to me simply a combination of inexperience, laziness and inability... nothing that cannot be fixed!

Michael

moron trying to ad excessive feechurns to yOUR.. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992149)

?website?/banner ad for Godless felons. how embarrassing it MuSt be.

just whois yOUR daddIE?

the WINdupe:

http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030519/1158001197_1.ht ml

the pitch/curvebawl/slydirt:

2003-04-29 GATES, WILLIAM H. III Chairman 5,000,000 Sale at $25.70 - $26.16 per share. (Proceeds of about $129,650,000) 2003-04-29 GATES, WILLIAM H. Chairman 5,000,000 Planned Sale (Estimated proceeds of $128,700,000) 2003-04-28 GATES, WILLIAM H. Chairman 4,000,000 Planned Sale (Estimated proceeds of $100,840,000) 2003-04-28 GATES, WILLIAM H. III Chairman 4,000,000 Sale at $25.68 - $25.91 per share. (Proceeds of about $103,180,000) 2003-04-25 GATES, WILLIAM H. III Chairman 4,000,000 Sale at $25.18 - $25.45 per share. (Proceeds of about $101,260,000) 2003-04-24 GATES, WILLIAM H. Chairman 1,000,000 Planned Sale (Estimated proceeds of $25,720,000) 2003-04-24 GATES, WILLIAM H. Chairman 2,000,000 Planned Sale (Estimated proceeds of $51,440,000) 2003-04-24 GATES, WILLIAM H. III Chairman 3,000,000 Sale at $25.40 - $25.67 per share. (Proceeds of about $76,605,000)

lookout bullow

What's next? Late night overtime produces bugs? (5, Insightful)

ckessel (607295) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992173)

Sheesh, next thing you know they'll start spouting nonsense like "burning the midnight oil leads to more bugs."

ebay motors- example (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992175)

http://pages.ebay.com/catindex/motorcycles.html as of 1246 pm most of the links on ebay motors section dont work! GO MONDAY!

Maybe Small Websites (1)

msheppard (150231) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992194)

This type of thing might happen on small websites, where developers work on code, unit test, then publish. But any large code-base will have a cycle where things are tested first, and then rolled. Typically these rolls are scheduled for the best possible time, which often is monday morning. Everyone is in house, and you've got a whole week to fix anything that went wrong.

M@

Re:Maybe Small Websites (1)

w3svc_animal (629519) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992415)

I agree, most large sites follow a four step roll.
Code developed and Unit tested in a DEV environment, then promoted to SIT - where the users get their first crack a breaking it.
Once the code is stabilized it's promoted to a User Acceptance environment - where the scope of the testing increases by a factor of 5.....
If, and only if, the code proves stable (typically over a 1 to 2 week period) the code will be migrated to Prodcution.

ohh come on.. (4, Insightful)

Squarewav (241189) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992286)

It doesn't matter if the website was made on saturday , or wensday. anytime a website comes out with new code, its going to fuck up in the first few days. there is just no cheap way to test a website with a full load of users all with difrent OS's, web browsers, and connections. how many times has slashdot craped out when they update the slashcode

QA (5, Informative)

Arpie (414285) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992297)

Having been working on a company that grew from a 1999 Internet startup with 5 employees (me being the only programmer to work along two consultants) to a profitable Internet company with 40 employees in 2003 (inlcuding the two former consultants), I've seen quite a bit of change in the IT procedures.

We have an 8 people tech team now (manager, programmers, support, QA). Whereas before we programmers would just use a development environment somewhat similar to the production (live) environment, test it a bit, deploy at will and monitor if anything went wrong, things have progressed a lot. Now we develop on a development environment as close to the production one as possible, then this is released to a test environment (also as close as possible to the production one) to be tested by QA, and that is finally released on the production (live) environment after it all tests ok (including regression testing).

Moreover, all the code changes are now under CVS, and we have automatic tools for monitoring the site, emailing errors, etc. QA is also done by separate people. IMHO it is conceptually flawed to allow the developers to do the final testing, by definition. (Though of course this is not always possible for cost reasons, it should be a goal).

The quality of our site is much better now. Problems almost always only arise when people want to bypass QA or force things through for emergencies.

IMHO, what is needed is:
1. Professionalism by the developers.
2. Testing, testing, and testing -- by the developers.
3. QA, QA and QA -- by someone other than the developers!
4. Managers must know the test/ QA process should never by bypassed -- this unfortunately is probably the hardest point. :-(

I taught a couple of ecommerce classes for MBA students and had them actually do hands on development (in a limited sense of course) so they could get an appreciation of this process. Hopefully if some of them are managers they will remember that and not try to shortcut the due process.

Office Space (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992313)

Sounds like someones got a case of the Mondays.

konq-e (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992329)

How about web designers that choose formats that make their websites completely unusable to non-standard browsers?
vnunet
idg

Re:konq-e (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992508)

May 19 07:31:19.775889 rule 0/0(match): block in on tun0: 205.152.132.235.17167 > 68.18.82.136.29159: udp 57 (DF)

The article on vnunet eventually comes up but not before my firewall blocks hundreds of requests to my ISPs name servers.

My "weekend inspirations".. (3, Insightful)

xchino (591175) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992335)

.. Have never defaced my site with the goatse guy nor deleted critical files. They may not work great at first (or at all) but they're in no way malicious. More dangerous than hackers or virii? I think not.

Requirements? (1)

Java Pimp (98454) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992341)

this is when developers come in and implement ideas they had over the weekend.

I don't know about some of these development teams they are talking about but around here, you don't just implement "ideas" you might have had over the weekend. "Hey! Wouldn't it be cool if it did this... !" If it's not a requirement, it doesn't go in.

If that were the case... Wouldn't it be cool if Slashdot loaded a random pr0n image with every article posting! :-) Sure it's a cool idea, but I think Slashdot would end up Slashdoting itself!

It has to be said... (2, Funny)

ItWasThem (458689) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992342)

"Looks like someone has a case of the Mooondays"

This rings so true. (4, Funny)

xA40D (180522) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992343)

There must be a course somewhere for developers - how to piss-off sysadmins. Highlights:

1. Make changes last thing on a Friday.
2. Or before a 2 week holiday
3. Change Management does not apply to developers
4. CVS is for wimps
5. And if you must use CVS, wait a week before committing fixed code.
5. Don't bump version numbers
6. Don't update init scripts
7. Ecept if they are correct
8. If anyome is aware of what you are upto... go to lunch.

Re:This rings so true. (1)

gheld (613039) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992517)

'sudo bash' and 'sudo tcsh' are good too, but be armed when they come looking for you.

Stupid article (4, Insightful)

Synn (6288) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992357)

When you make changes to websites, they sometimes break. Anytime you introduce change into a stable system, you open the door for instability.

And generally business websites don't see as much traffic on the weekends, so naturally the weekend is the time to make changes.

So wow, it's no shock that Mondays are when you're most likely to see problems with a website. But these problems and hiccups are the price you pay for progress.

If you don't want to chance any disruption in your life, then I guess you should never change. Otherwise, get over it.

Need 4 environments Dev, UAT, IT & prod (4, Insightful)

crovira (10242) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992408)

You need to get the code monkey off the production box.

They need a Dev environment. And THAT's ALL they touch. They deliver their code to UAT.

QA needs 2 environments:
- Unit Acceptence testing (UAT) and all bugs go back to Dev
- Integration Testing (IT) and all bugs back to Dev or you need SysAdmins who need to hack the OS middleware &| environment)

Production where NOHING is allowed until its gone through UAT & IT.

What a gyp! (3, Funny)

Jonboy X (319895) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992451)

You mean, other companies' web programmers get to take weekends?!? Man, that must be nice...

a solution (1, Funny)

cr@ckwhore (165454) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992460)

Clearly we need a 5 day waiting period on developers. How many more of our websites must go down before congress gets the message? We should also launch a class action lawsuit against schools and staffing agencies for negligence in putting dangerous developers in the hands of unsuspecting companies. Its the republicans fault.

[/sarcasm]

What does this have to do with Mondays? (1)

crashnbur (127738) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992513)

I am an employee of the state, and the government of Georgia is cheap! That, and our old-as-creation computers give us hell at random intervals, and let me tell you, they don't discriminate based on the days of the week.

You get what you get.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992520)

The way I look at it, if you have anyone doing active development against your production server then you are just asking for it anyway.... geeeeez a test server, change management, such novel ideas :>)
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