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VIA's New Nehemiah M10000 Processor Reviewed

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the low-power-madness dept.

Hardware 265

Joseph Wharton writes "Mini-ITX.com has a review of VIA's new Nehemiah M10000 EPIA-M motherboard and processor. Some of the new features include a full-speed floating-point unit (finally!), SSE instructions, 64KB of full-speed L2 cache, and (get this) a hardware-based random number generator. Also, there's IO/APIC support in these new procs, potentially paving the way for dual EPIA boards."

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fast post (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992241)

past fost

!!!

Re:fast post (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992275)

wow....I don't really come here much anymore, but the last two times I've been here I've had easy first posts.

Maybe /. is not the trolling mecca that it used to be...

tuxracer ... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992407)

tux is racing for you bitch dog!

1st Post (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992245)

Yippie!

Benchmarks suxs (-1, Troll)

sailboatfool (178278) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992246)

No comparison to a P4. Wonder why...

Re:Benchmarks suxs (3, Insightful)

Organic_Info (208739) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992301)

errr beause the two are completly different uses.

The mini-itx stuff is all about power consumption or lack thereof and low noise solutions.

Why do you think I don't compare my shitty little commuter car to a bloody ferrari.

Very insightful first post.

Re:Benchmarks suxs (-1, Troll)

glrotate (300695) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992328)

Only a moron wouldn't think a comparison to a P4 would be useful.

Re:Benchmarks suxs (1)

BigBir3d (454486) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992346)

P3 or Celeron or Duron would be.

Not that I can tell... damn /. effect already.

Re:Benchmarks suxs (3, Insightful)

Organic_Info (208739) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992429)

I didn't say it wouldn't be useful in fact for the most part it won't. I'm making a pretty good guess here that the a P4 would cream the Nehemiah M10000 at all the usual benchmarks. My point is you would benchmark against processors in a similar/related class Durons, Celerons, Nat Semi Geodes (if they are still around), etc. There is little point in comparing a truck to a car when asking which will transport more cargo or which is more cost effective for the job. You may however compare a van with a truck both are used for more similar tasks.

Re:Benchmarks suxs (1)

Organic_Info (208739) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992443)

I also would have said your unlikley to see a P4 in a minitx box....that was until I looked on the first page of www.mini-itx.com to see the headline "Pentium 4M Mini-ITX from Commell" felt like a bit of a dobber then - doh!

64K cache (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992249)

Wow!

Gutless as ever.

Re:64K cache (1)

turgid (580780) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992300)

You do realise that the intel Pentium 4 has a whopping 20k level 1 cache? 8k instruction, 12k data? My archaic K6-2/500 has 64k level 1 cache: 32k instruction, 32k data.

Re:64K cache (1)

shayborg (650364) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992336)

You do realise that the intel Pentium 4 has a whopping 20k level 1 cache? 8k instruction, 12k data? My archaic K6-2/500 has 64k level 1 cache: 32k instruction, 32k data.

Well, the Nehemiah supposedly has 64K level 2 cache. By comparison, the 1 GHz Celeron has 256K L2 cache ...

-- shayborg

Re:64K cache (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992352)

cache eats power

Re:64K cache (1)

gilesjuk (604902) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992374)

Cache also reduces yield.

Re:64K cache (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992384)

You do realize that the writeup said 64K "L2" cache.

The P4 as 256K L2 cache, and 20K L1 cache.

THe Durons have 64K L2 cache If i'm not mistaken.

Re:64K cache (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992583)

P4s and Tualitan P3s Have 512K L2 Cache, Celerons have 256, as do CuMine and older P3s, the celeron counterparts of which have 128.

I believe the original classic pentiums had 64k.

Re:64K cache (5, Interesting)

tjrw (22407) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992619)

The write-up is misleading...
The 64k is the L2 cache which is 16-way set-associative, full-speed and exclusive i.e. it doesn't overlap with the contents of the L1 cache. The L1 cache is 128k unless they've changed it (none of the immediately available info mentions the size, but that's what the current C3 has).

So, actually the chip has 192K of cache, configured pretty much the same as it was in the AMD Duron (128k L1, 64k L2, exclusive). Considering the target marketplace and performance of the chip, this seems to be plenty.

Rocketman, as interpreted by William Shatner (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992252)

Good afternoon. In 1972, when Elton John and I wrote Rocketman, it became very popular among the listeners. Due to the interest and the meaning of the song, now, in 2003, I am truly proud, once again, to present my Rocketman, as interpreted by William Shatner. Thank you.

Truly an American icon [themusicrevolution.com]

Re:Rocketman, as interpreted by William Shatner (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992377)

wonderful!!

please join the Open Trolls Movement [opentrolls.free.fr] fellow trollah!! (the join page is not ready, please email at opentrolls@free.fr )

OTM TROLLAH #001

Law of chip naming? (5, Funny)

JeffSh (71237) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992256)

The name of the processor and chipset shall be inversely porportionate to the actual size of the chipset and chip.

imagine, when boards are self contained on one microchip, the name will be the "ultra gigaplexor 90000000 duplex teranaxor"

Creative Accounting (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992625)

There is a much easier explaination. Via will just keep adding zeros to the name until sales improve.

Introducing the Via Methusela M10^100!

Re:Law of chip naming? (3, Interesting)

GQuon (643387) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992658)

imagine, when boards are self contained on one microchip, the name will be the "ultra gigaplexor 90000000 duplex teranaxor"

Perhaps they need somebody to end the madness? (One of) the first electronic computers was called ENIAC. Then came the UNIVAC and the ILLIAC, etc. So somebody called their computer MANIAC, and ended that tradition.
I like to think of Windows 98 as being derived from the MANIAC, while Windows XP is made BY maniacs [alltheweb.com] .

Serioulsy though, I think microcontrollers is a kind of fusion of CPU/RAM/ROM other circuits, and they usually have shorter names than desktop CPUs have, IIRC.

Oh boy, a VIA chipset and CPU !!! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992260)

Now I can have a complete system failure

I suspect (3, Informative)

Arbogast_II (583768) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992631)

That this comment, although funny, is from someone who has never used the Epia 10000

Can you smell the smoke? (-1, Offtopic)

Red Warrior (637634) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992262)

4 fp posts, and the link is /.'ed
Stop us before we link again!!! Bawahh!!

Makes for a great jukebox (4, Insightful)

microbob (29155) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992264)

I used the 800mhz Eden to put together a great Jukebox. The digital coax out to my receiver works like a charm.

Having all my music on-line and ready to be played on any PC in the house is pretty nice.

Re:Makes for a great jukebox (4, Insightful)

buffer-overflowed (588867) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992299)

That's their target market, and boy are these things great for uses like that. 17cm x 17cm footprint and decent media performance.

IIRC a lot of "next-gen" DVD players will be using these mainboards, and they've started putting things like hardware mpeg decoding/etc. into them. They're ideal for digital jukebox/emulator/dvd player/pvr combo systems.

Re:Makes for a great jukebox (2, Informative)

microbob (29155) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992334)

I threw it in a case like this:

-> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =2729698897&category=3669

I got 2 cases for $25 (including shipping), got a 80gig HD, wireless adapter and IR keyboard.

The s-video out leave a little be desired, but it is probably my TV.

M.B.

Wahh, now with working link... (1)

microbob (29155) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992435)

Hrm, why the space in my ebay link? Try this one:

IBM Netvisat case [ebay.com]

M.B.

Re:Makes for a great jukebox (5, Informative)

buffer-overflowed (588867) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992372)

I forgot, don't expect one of these to run Doom 3 or UT2003. They will run office, and they will play DVDs. The earlier ones required no active cooling, it's still an extremely low power chip however.

I found the M10000 for $182 at directron [directron.com] , and here's what you get for your money:
VIA C3 1GHz processor
10/100 Ethernet
Firewire
TV-OUT (S-video, RCA(PAL and NTSC))
6 Channel Audio

Not a bad deal, methinks. Probably can be found cheaper, but I didn't want to look too hard.

Re:Makes for a great jukebox (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992413)

Thank you! That's just the deal I've been looking for for my server.

Re:Makes for a great jukebox (5, Informative)

seafoodbuffet (527069) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992576)

Anyone considering a M10000 should read this [mini-itx.com] first. Basically, VIA released two separate boards under the M10000 name. The second of which is the only one to feature the Nehemiah core. The first series (the one from directron.com) still uses the older Ezra-T core. Right now, there's not many vendors who can reliably provide Nehemiah processors. The only places I've seen are idot.com and monarchcomputer.com.

WERE JESUS ALIVE,WOULD HE SUCK AS MUCH COCK AS YOU (-1)

Subject Line Troll (581198) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992379)

64KB cache? (4, Funny)

Animats (122034) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992276)

That sounds a bit small.

Re:64KB cache? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992320)

That's all the main ram I have on this C-64!

Re:64KB cache? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992369)

Ok, you've asked for it:

64kb should be enough for anyone!

Re:64KB cache? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992399)

I assume it reduces heat and power consumption...

This board/proc sound great, if only they'd beef it up some.

Re:64KB cache? (4, Informative)

mmol_6453 (231450) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992424)

Cache is only useful when you're working on a small data set. Multimedia applications tend to constantly move through a large data set, which makes the cache all but useless. Full details here [arstechnica.com] .

Re:64KB cache? (5, Funny)

liquidsin (398151) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992476)

Think so? I'd heard that 64 kb should be enough for everyone...

Book of Nehemiah: (4, Interesting)

bugsmalli (638337) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992283)

Wasn't sure about Nehemiah, so googled and found this:
Book of Nehemiah:
This book continues the history of the children of the captivity, the Jews lately returned out of Babylon. We have a full account of Nehemiah's labours for them, in these his commentaries: wherein he records not only the works of his hands, but the very workings of his heart, inserting many devout reflections and ejaculations, which are peculiar to his writing. Twelve years he was the tirshatha, or governor of Judea, under the same Artaxerxes that gave Ezra his commission. This book relates his concern for Jerusalem and commission to go thither, chap. 1, 2. His building the wall of Jerusalem, notwithstanding much opposition, chap. 3, 4. His redressing the grievances of the people, chap. 5. His finishing the wall, chap. 6. The account he took of the people, chap. 7. His calling the people to read the law, fast and pray, and renew their covenant, chap. 8 - 10. He peoples Jerusalem and settles the tribe of Levi, chap. 11, 12. He reforms divers abuses, chap. 13. This was the last historical book that was written, as Malachi, the last prophetical book of the old testament.

Re:Book of Nehemiah: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992344)

i understand it's the "name" of the thing and all, but oh how i wish i didn't use up my mod points this morning...

Re:Book of Nehemiah: (0, Flamebait)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992529)

You atheist zealots are just as obnoxious as the Christian fundamentalists.

You fucking petty intolerance doesn't make you cool any more. And stop dressing in all black. Idiot.

Obligatory Goatse.cx link? (-1, Troll)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992351)

I also have many devout reflections and ejaculations, especially when pouring hot grits down my pants in Soviet Russia while looking a beowulf cluster of Natalie Portmans.

Re:Obligatory Goatse.cx link? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992432)

No,

but here ... you like anyway.

Ghistas Ceix (as heard on the CNN broadcast from Quatar on May 10 2003) is Ghoatses Dotsee 'X

Re:Book of Nehemiah: (2, Interesting)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992447)

Twelve years he was the tirshatha, or governor of Judea, under the same Artaxerxes that gave Ezra his commission.

The Ezra-T is the name of the chip Nehemiah is 'succeeding' (the sub 1 GHz model).

Maybe that has some sort of meaning, I guess.

I had no idea there were so many Jews in Hong Kong. (This is not a racial troll, I seriously have never seen a chinese Jew in my life)

Re:Book of Nehemiah: (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992570)

Nehemiah and Ezra are prophets of the old testament of the bible.
They both have a book named after them.

The CEO of VIA is a fundamentalist christian and that is why he uses biblical names.
So he's not Jewish, but are bible consists of the Jewish holy books and the new testament.

And you gotta admit those Jewish names sound much more exotic then "James" or "John" (Though if we didn't translate those names they would be in Jewish "Ya'akov" and "Jochanan" respectively, which also sounds cool).

Re:Book of Nehemiah: (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992643)

Though if we didn't translate those names they would be in Jewish "Ya'akov"

In Soviet Old Testament, bible reads you!

Re:Book of Nehemiah: (1)

GoRK (10018) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992578)

So will the 2ghz chip be named Esther?

Re:Book of Nehemiah: (1)

salimma (115327) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992656)

I had no idea there were so many Jews in Hong Kong


VIA is based in Taiwan, and I believe Chinese Christians have something for the Old Testament.

I always felt VIA chip naming is overtly OT - from Joshua, to Gideon, to Ezra and now Nehemiah...

No Chinese Jews (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992668)

I had no idea there were so many Jews in Hong Kong. (This is not a racial troll, I seriously have never seen a chinese Jew in my life)

I had the same question you did. One day, a friend and I went into a Chinese restaurant to have some lunch. I asked the waiter, "Do you have Chinese Jews?" He answered, "No Chinese Jews. We have apple joos, orange joos, prune joos, but no Chinese joos."

Thank you.

Why Via names stuff after Christian Mythology (4, Informative)

Indy1 (99447) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992497)

The ceo of Via, Wen-chi Chen, is a Fundlementist Christian, so as a result this is the name source for many of their products (joshua, sameul, nehemiah).

More models to come? (4, Funny)

lpret (570480) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992554)

I'm waiting for the 3 Ghz Jesus model to come out. Apparently it would be able "to do miracles!" I don't know about this marketing hype sometimes, you kind of have to see it to believe it.

Signing off,
Doubting Thomas

John the Baptist chip (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992704)

The John the Baptist chip is particularly good on headless systems.

FINALLY!! (1)

Ogrez (546269) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992287)

Isnt this the one that can reshape itself to fit into any slot, or socket... or was that the t-m320000... I forget...

Re:FINALLY!! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992340)

Nah, that's the t-1000 you're thinking of... *har har*

New Via (3, Interesting)

_Smacndeez_ (217293) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992296)

The new CPU sounds cool, one question, with the 'random number generator' is this supposed to be paving the way for Via and 'Secure Computing'?
*sighs* Oh well, I could use a new media b0x3n.

Re:New Via (5, Informative)

tjrw (22407) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992406)

A hardware random-number generator is useful for crypto. If you've ever tried porting something like OpenSSH to a platform that didn't have decent RNG support (i.e. no /dev/random or /dev/urandom like Linux has), you'll have run into the fun and games of trying to come up with a decent random source.

Hardware support for RNG is a "Good Thing(TM)", and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the "Trusted Computing Platform" or whatever the DRM flavour of the day happens to be ! :-)

Re:New Via (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992515)

Donald Knuth recently proved that hardware random number generators can never achieve > O(log n) vertex edge disparity. Only software entropy collectors (like /dev/(u)random) are capable of finite random generation.

I LOVE THE SMELL OF A FROSTY POST IN THE MORNING (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992309)

dig it, bzatches!!

FP!

One would hope.... (5, Funny)

Organic_Info (208739) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992322)

One would hope they don't host their site on a mini-itx box :)

A better name... (1, Redundant)

altek (119814) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992325)

How about the M 1.0x10^4 ??

The the nextgen can be M 1.0x10^5, and so on... This way in 5 years we only have to remember the exponent and not the number 100000000000!

Re:A better name... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992385)

To bad in 5 years it will be M1.0x10^100000000000

Heinleintastic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992331)

Mmm.... Scudderific...

a bit about the cpu since it's /.ed (5, Informative)

bpland (529369) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992337)

It's almost dead but here is the page about the CPU.. interesting. hehe

"Nehemiah is the next generation C3 CPU, and features a number of improvements over the Ezra-T C3 used in all previous EPIAs. It has The 20.5 million transistors, and uses a 0.13 micron process. For comparison, a Barton Athlon or Northwood Pentium 4 have about 55 million transistors, and recent GPUs have over 100 million transistors.

The Nehemiah is designed to work at clock speeds of 1GHz and beyond - the Ezra-T is designed at up to about 1GHz.

Nehemiah has a die size of 52mm2 - the world's smallest x86 processor. It has been designed to minimize power consumption and optimise heat dissipation - VIA call this "Coolstream". Some active cooling is still required, but not very much. Let's hope for a Nehemiah Eden C3 version.

The Nehemiah features SSE instructions instead of the 3DNow! instructions featured on previous C3s. This should bring enhanced performance in 3D applications, which are optimised for more modern SIMD instruction sets. SSE optimised image processing applications should also benefit.

Full Speed FPU - the Nehemiah has a full speed floating point unit for the first time. The Ezra-T has a half-speed FPU. Floating point calculations are used heavily in 3D rendering, multimedia, and streaming applications.

Enhanced 64KB Full-Speed Exclusive L2 cache with 16-way associativity. An exclusive L2 cache gives a larger effective total cache size as it doesn't replicate the contents of the L1 cache. The more cache available, the more chance there is that program loops can run in cache and not comparatively slow main memory.

StepAhead Advanced Branch Prediction - Looks ahead and gathers the data needed to optimally run applications

A hardware based random number generator (RNG) has been added. This creates true random numbers from the random electrical noise on the chip. This is of much use in security applications, allowing a strong cryptographic key to be generated. VIA call this the "PadLock Data Encryption Engine".

Future Nehemiahs will feature IO/APIC support. An Advanced Programmable Interrupt Controller (APIC) provides multi-processor interrupt management - dual processor EPIA anyone?

The Nehemiah is available in EBGA or Socket 370 packages - both are low profile and require less board real estate."

Re:a bit about the cpu since it's /.ed (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992444)

Nehemiah has a die size of 52mm2 - the world's smallest x86 processor.

Not quite, the 8086 is smaller (as is the 8088) although it is smaller than the 286, and much smaller than comparable x86 CPUs...

Re:a bit about the cpu since it's /.ed (1)

questionlp (58365) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992482)

If Geek.com [geek.com] and Sandpile.org [sandpile.org] are correct, the Transmeta TM5800 is just 3mm^2 larger than the Nehemiah processor, yet has much more cache on-die (128KB L1; 512KB L2) and the rest is logic.

It also seems that the Transmeta processor has an average power usage of around 7W whereas the Nehamiah (according to Digit Life [digit-life.com] ) has an idle power usage of ~5W and a max of around 15-20W.

Re:a bit about the cpu since it's /.ed (2, Interesting)

GunFodder (208805) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992649)

Maximum power consumption of 15-20 watts? The review also indicates that Nehemiah requires active cooling as well. A P3 based Celeron is also inexpensive, can be installed in a Shuttle SFF box, is much faster, and only consumes a few more watts. I think a Celeron based system would be a much better value.

Re:a bit about the cpu since it's /.ed (2, Interesting)

mackstann (586043) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992698)

Yep, I was considering an ITX machine but decided on a Tualeron+micro atx motherboard. Bigger, yes, but much more powerful, and perhaps a tad cheaper depending on what models you're looking at and whatnot.

How is your experience? (1)

GQuon (643387) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992338)

What is your experience with VIA motherboards?

What about the VIA 82C686B Southbridge? (Any AmigaOne owners?)

ADV:
Subscribers! Post your First Posts before anybody else: Here. [slashdot.org]

Re:How is your experience? (1)

Indy1 (99447) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992438)

the 686B southbridge is a bit old, but its pretty solid for the most part. Supports Ata-100 and works fine in linux.

Re:How is your experience? (1)

Squarewav (241189) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992463)

I have a VIA P4X400 chipset. from my exp its crap compared to the intel chipset in my last MB(same cpu and cards just new MB), for one if you wish to run winxp you have to install the via 4-1 drivers failure to do so right away after installing XP will result in lockups every few min. also the speed is not constent its oftin so slow it feals like my p4 2ghz is a 200mhz. Under linux I get all sorts of strange problems not counting the ones related to agp 3.0, like many distro's wont connect to the network like mandrake and knoppix. it will see the card and install the driver but dhcp wont connect, and yes I've tried useing 3 other nics I've had lying around and none of them will work. strangly enough redhat,debian and libranet are the ony ones I managed to get online with

Re:How is your experience? (1)

13Echo (209846) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992466)

I have that chipset in my Abit KT7A-RAID board. I've had no problems with it. It's been perfectly reliable on Windows and Linux since I purchased it, which was about 2 years ago. The key is proper driver installation on Windows machines. With Linux, it's all automated. I've got no experience with Amiga systems and this southbridge.

Well... Wait a sec. I did experience some problems with these chipsets and ATAPI ZIP drives on another motherboard. But I believe that VIA resolved those problems. Our ZIPs worked fine with a 4in1 update. I'm not sure if it was a cheap hack though.

Re:How is your experience? (3, Informative)

molarmass192 (608071) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992566)

Have an EPIA 800MHz, works great for MP3s but bought it for a media center. Not enough "nuts" for decoding MP2 video in real time. The fullspeed FPU on the 10000 would certainly help in that department. Bogos show up as 1200 but that's only for 1+1 stuff, not 1+1.1. The best part of these little boards is they're dead quiet and generate miniscule amounts of heat. For that reason alone, I'm looking into the 10000 as a replacement for my current EPIA.

slashed (0, Redundant)

Squarewav (241189) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992339)

well /. brings down another site, all I want to know is 3 things

1: What is the Mhz?

2: How Much will it cost

3: What is the point of a hardware rand. is anyone realy going to program for it?

Re:slashed (1)

peterdaly (123554) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992404)

> well /. brings down another site[snip...]

And it's not even a monday morning!

-Pete

Re:slashed (1)

leviramsey (248057) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992405)

Linux'll probably be patched to support the RNG once these babies start coming out, along with the other opensource OS's.

Re:slashed (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992425)

1 ghz.

Price around $150-200. Look at http://www.hushtechnologies.net for an integrated version.

Hardware rand is good. I'd bet OpenBSD will support it.

Re:slashed (2, Informative)

tedu (647286) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992485)

already does :)

HW Random Numbers ... (3, Interesting)

seletz (192331) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992349)

I dont know for sure, but I would not take that one for strong cryptographic stuff.

I mean, once they have a analysis of the possible weaknesses of the HW, you have a big problem ;)

Re:HW Random Numbers ... (1)

TechnoLust (528463) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992458)

Yeah, but you could use it to seed a strong SOFTWARE random number generator.

Re:HW Random Numbers ... (1)

godal (674406) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992467)

Well, theoretically it gives perfect random numbers, if it doesnt, you can always use software generated ones instead. so not really a biggie.

Re:HW Random Numbers ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992533)

"Not really a biggie"... Isn't that what Kathleen Fent said about CmdrTaco's trouser worm?

Re:HW Random Numbers ... (4, Interesting)

eet23 (563082) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992483)

Doing it in hardware, they can take advantage of small random electrical currents. It will probably be much closer to true random than anything you can do in software.

Yay! (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992366)

A mini-itx board with enough power to play a DVD smoothly, without jitters or glitches or lost frames.

Finally I can consider buying one of these as the basis for a Media PC.

Now what about the mini-itx based rigs that have DVD playback software in firmware, the cheap Lindows media PCs that will play a DVD on power up. Can you get those boards/firmware for a roll your own solution?

Website is slow, here's the Conclusion (5, Informative)

rgm3 (530335) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992368)

Conclusion

The Nehemiah M10000 is a very welcome speedbump to previous EPIA Ms. The full speed FPU and SSE instructions give it that extra boost needed to playback any media type we could find - without optimisations or quality tradeoffs.

Although we have benchmarked the Nehemiah as fully as possible (and gained some useful comparisons with earlier EPIAs), it must be remembered that this is not everything that the EPIA is about. In use, all the EPIAs are nippier than their benchmarks would suggest, due to their supporting chipsets. EPIA Ms (of which the Nehemiah M10000 is of course the current ruler) are powerful multimedia playback machines. An EPIA M in a low profile case looks great next to a TV, where a regular PC or even Cube SFFPC will look out of place, overpowered and overpriced for the task. Add a PVR card and you have a perfect HTPC.

As an inexpensive upgrade path for ageing x86 machines, EPIAs are ideal - schools, libraries and internet cafes can benefit from low noise and low power consumption machines. Under Linux, even the EPIA 5000 can perform tasks such as file serving with ease all at the cost of a SCSI card. EPIAs have accidentally gained a following in the modding community (witness the many projects on this site). Although such mods probably represent a small proportion of sales, they show the versatility that this form factor has, and the enthusiasm of its owners. No other manufacturer offers a range of mainstream low noise motherboards at this size and price with these facilities. Other manufacturers will be watching with interest.

They should have called it... (5, Funny)

rizawbone (577492) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992426)

...the "Better Than Ezra".

overclocking with Linux? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992452)

This review links to a method that sounds ridiculously simple to overclock the Epia M processors [mini-itx.com] using nothing but a software utility, but it's a Windows utility.

Is there a Linux program with equivalent functionality? It would be nice to bump my M9000 ("borderline" in several of the listed benchmark results) to a full gigahertz and into the (acceptable) green level instead of yellow :)

Re:overclocking with Linux? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992507)

There is no Linux program with equivelant functionality.

There usually isnt.

Give it about 15 years, and some kid in mommas basement will work it out.

Hardware random number generator? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992479)

Wow. given an infinite number of these processors and an infinite amount of time, these things could write code that's identical to SCO's.

That's great! (1)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992506)

But what is it?

?? Question ?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5992518)

I guess the hardware RNG would be suited for cryptography applications... but wouldn't software have to be written to actually use it? How many vendors are going to go back to their code and build in support for this little used chipset? Unless Intel and AMD jump on the hardware RNG bandwagon, I don't see it being used.

Google cache links (pics slashdotted) (1)

whovian (107062) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992528)

link1 [216.239.53.100]
und another, auf deutsch
link2 [216.239.53.100]

Dual boards have already been announced. (2, Informative)

mbourgon (186257) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992535)

Dual processor boards have already been announced - it's been eagerly awaited in the MythTV camp, as it should allow dual-tuner support. And since it's low power, you won't need a Zalman/Thermalright heat sink and a specialty fan to make it quiet.

before we start griping... (4, Informative)

iamkrinkle (585605) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992540)

before everyone starts comparing this to p4 or athlon, it's not meant to compare to them. this chip is only 1 ghz, but the selling point is it's low power consumption and it doesn't run too hot (the slower cpu's use only passive cooling). So yeah, you're not going to be playing doom 3 on it, but you can do cool things like put it in your car [via.com.tw] or have a pc that is (almost) completely silent. So for around 200 you get a mobo/cpu/video card/sound card/etc... not too bad of a deal if you ask me...

More info from Via Press Release (5, Informative)

MikeD83 (529104) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992582)

VIA Press Release, April 15, 2003 [via.com.tw]

Notable features:
  • 10% drop in power consumption
  • 50% drop in system noise
  • Integrated MPEG-2 decoder
  • ATA-133
  • 10/100 Mbps Ethernet
  • S-Video and RCA tv-Out
  • S/PDif digital audio connection
  • 1 avaliable PCI slot

Re:More info from Via Press Release (2, Informative)

MikeD83 (529104) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992613)

Or check out the product page [viavpsd.com] .

Hardware based random number generator? (4, Funny)

docbrown42 (535974) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992627)

and (get this) a hardware-based random number generator

Oh, so it comes with a pair of fuzzy dice? What about a "Type R" sticker, so it'll SEEM faster?

Low power cpu - A great thing (3, Informative)

LocalHero (626750) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992669)

I think it is a great thing that a company has started to make low power cpus. Imagine all those P4 and AMD cpus out there that waits for Word to tell them to do something. You dont need 3ghz for that. A modern P4 or AMD processor uses about 70W of energy for nothing.

Hey if you could reduce that to 35W you are not only geting 35W less for the cpu you are also lowering the power consumtion on the air condition. An office building that starts to take the power consumtion serius could save lots of cash on electrical bill and probably some on the environment to :)

"optional" lvds connector? (2, Interesting)

pangloss (25315) | more than 11 years ago | (#5992713)

anyone know if the optional lvds connector they mention in the review could somehow be used with a dvi-d equipped display?
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