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Interview With Ximian's Nat Friedman

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the dances-with-monkeys dept.

Ximian 258

Sheepish writes "OSNews features a long and interesting interview with Nat Friedman, of Ximian fame. Nat tells all and talks about the upcoming Ximian Desktop 2 and its differences from Gnome 2, the difficulties of developing the MS Exchange Connector, Linux as a desktop, Mono and plans for Gnome integration, the hundrends of OpenOffice.org changes made to make OOo like a Gnome2 app, and how Ximian feels... about Apple's business. Four screenshots of Ximian Desktop 2 are included too."

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Will there by 2nd First post ? (-1)

Pi3.142 (538027) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109251)

"The National Association of Theater Concessionaires reported that in 1986, 60% of all candy sold in movie theaters was sold to Roger Ebert." -- D. Letterman

Re:Will there by 2nd First post ? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109320)

SUCK MY DICK AND FUCKING LIKE IT, NIGGERS! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109258)

fp! fuck you! the DMCA is GOD!

Good one (-1, Redundant)

MisterFancypants (615129) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109263)

That was a really good interview. I especially liked the part where he answered all those questions. Excellent.

Re:Good one (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109296)

If you liked that interview, then you will also like many other interviews.

But you don't have to take my word for it!

MS Exchange Connector (0)

blogeasy (674237) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109279)

It's too bad there even needs to be a MS Exchange Connector.

Most scary Ximian OOo change (4, Interesting)

twener (603089) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109284)

Quote: "- Uses MSFT file formats by default, reflecting the reality of most of the documents you will receive. No longer tells you you're about to lose all your data when you save in an MSFT format. "

Re:Most scary Ximian OOo change (2, Insightful)

pr0c (604875) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109357)

Whats scary? The fact that they admit it or the fact that its true?

Re:Most scary Ximian OOo change (1)

twener (603089) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109389)

The discreeted possible data loss. They at least should have based their import/export on 1.1 trunk.

Re:Most scary Ximian OOo change (1)

pr0c (604875) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109673)

I agree! I use 1.1 and wouldn't think about going back.

Re:Most scary Ximian OOo change (4, Insightful)

chetohevia (109956) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109547)

Well, given that you don't actually lose the data, it's reassuring.

Since .doc ends up being the underlying file format, the dialog is just needlessly alarming, and they just took it out.

Re:Most scary Ximian OOo change (2, Interesting)

El Pollo Loco (562236) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109569)

I dunno, it could go either way. When OO does become more widespread, and MS does change the format substantially, then Ximian could always say that it was microsoft screwing up the format. That would just piss off a lot of customers. But on the other hand, if the OO users see the office users still using them perfectly, it could drive them away.

Re:Most scary Ximian OOo change (1)

mijok (603178) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109814)

Remember one thing: MS themselves are locked into their formats too. They are forced to maintain compatibility with older versions of their own programs - if they broke that with newer versions people wouldn't upgrade.

Re:Most scary Ximian OOo change (3, Informative)

quiklilo71 (557049) | more than 11 years ago | (#6110071)

I loved XD1 back in the RHAT 7.3 daze, but since I never seen a supported 8.0 version I gave up on it.
I loved it but I remember that whenever I wanted to update by version of Redhat I had to format seems the rpms used by Ximian were diffrent than Redhats.
I'm going to give XD2 a shot, I'm sure it will be great, I'll just put it on a box I don't care about before I put it on my main Linux machine.

About oo...

I can't speak for the entire suite but oowriter has been great to me until recently.
I attent the University of Phoenix online and was working on a major paper. Of course everyone else in the class uses the ms office suite.
I was about to submit my paper when I fired up rdesktop to view it in XP... it came out hacked in symbols (@#![])... I had to retype it in ms word!

I still think it's almost as good as abiword, but abi doesn't seem to get much press so it may even be better...

We're getting close!

Re:Most scary Ximian OOo change (1)

iabervon (1971) | more than 11 years ago | (#6110104)

The OpenOffice format isn't really preferable to MSFT file formats for any practical reason (aside from not including random secret information, which OpenOffice presumably doesn't put into the MSFT files anyway). Any other supported format you're likely to want, you'd use a more suitable program to create. Everyone I know who uses OpenOffice only uses it to deal with MSFT files and writes their books, papers, and web pages in plain text or LaTeX with emacs or vi.

(In fact, most of the documents you're likely to receive are plain text or HTML email, judging from the spam I get, but you won't use OpenOffice with them)

Could you get him to explain... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109292)

...why Gnome / Ximain sucks so much and why they take it in the tail end from big corporations?

Three hundrend? Four hundrend? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109298)

UI Consistency (4, Insightful)

Rura Penthe (154319) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109304)

I'm pleased that XD2 is striving for complete UI consistency. This is something I've always felt was lacking in the overall user experience for linux. Having a coherent set of human interface guidelines ala Apple's materials for OS X can do nothing but help.

Re:UI Consistency (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109453)

Fucking pathetic that it's 2003 and this is what is being strived for.

Re:UI Consistency (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109680)

Yes, by now they should have seen the truth and started striving for pussy instead.

Re:UI Consistency (1)

ksheka (189669) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109458)

Only works if everyone else follows your guideline, though.

Re:UI Consistency (2, Insightful)

StAugustineLovesYou (678635) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109927)

The problem is that with such a large percentage of the desktop market, there is a consistent UI, MSWindows (2000, XP, whatever). It's hard to get away from the "it doesn't look like windows" complaints and appeal to larger than niche markets.

Re:UI Consistency (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6110052)

Actually if you've been using KDE its been pretty consistant as opposed to Gnome where the file dialog varies between apps and many gtk apps make up their own UI styles. In KDE if its Ksomething chances are it looks like it fits with KDE, that's not the case with Gnome yet. Of course you go out of version and you get what you get, but overall KDE is better about this.

What I'd personally love to see Ximian do is rip out and fix that mess which is Natulius. Why did Eazel build a file manager that can't even manage files?

For a good bit a fun do something most users need to do every day. Browse to smb mounted share that has more than 100 files in it. You'll reach retirement age before the files are displayed.(Yes that's with file count and picture thumbnails off!). Compared to Konq Natuilus is a bloated piece of crap.

I say this as a full time user of Gnome so its not like I have an axe to grind here. I love Gnome, I just avoid Nautilus like the plague. Why do the Nautilus devs keep adding functions before fixing the basic flaws that have been around for years now?

they must read slashdot (1, Interesting)

adamruck (638131) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109310)

One of the big problems we solved was the printing UI. Using CUPS as the backend, most printers are now automatically detected and configured, even if they're on the network. We also added a simple printer configuration wizard. Configured Printers show up in your file manager and can be easily reconfigured to change things like paper sizes, using a familiar interface. Small things matter: your printer jobs appear on the panel until they are done, so you know when to pick up the results. Large things matter too: when printing from an application, just click on the printer you want to print to. For most people, this solves the Linux printing problem pretty well.

they must have read the artice on cups that was just posted a little while ago

too much??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109328)

well it isn't a dupe, but this [slashdot.org] got me fooled the first time i looked :). but still it's a good interview.

Question (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109333)

My question for Nat Friedman, of Ximian fame:

Are all Linux users gay, or just most of them?

TIA

Answer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109914)

No one really knows. No linux user has actually gotten laid, so it's anyone's guess if they lust after penis or vaginia.

I'm salivating (4, Interesting)

esconsult1 (203878) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109341)

The reason why I bought an iBook to admin my Linux servers was because of immature user interfaces.

I was left salivating after viewing the screenshots and reading about the far reaching changes that were made, especially integrating OpenOffice with the rest of the desktop.

And they're looking into migrating several hundred thousand desktops, especially in Europe. Damn!

Goodbye Bluecurve, Hello Ximian Desktop!

No Slackware download? (2, Interesting)

TheDefunctMunky (566913) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109360)

Why is Ximian not supporting Slack?

Re:No Slackware download? (1)

gradedcheese (173758) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109410)

its not an rpm-based distro

Re:No Slackware download? (4, Informative)

SLot (82781) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109488)

From their desktop support general info:

Slackware Linux is a well-respected Linux distribution, and has a dedicated, fierce following. It is possible that Ximian may support Slack in the future but we have no idea when that might happen. Slackware support is likely to come after BSD support, Debian PPC support, and SuSE PPC support. Right now, we have plenty of work supporting the distributions we already support.

The things that prevent Ximian from supporting Slackware are partly technical, and partly market based. Technically, Slack has a package management system which has substantial differences from other distribution's package management systems. Dependency checking, for example, is absolutely necessary for certain Ximian services and features (the installer and the updater, in particular), and is not fully supported by Slackware. Slackware's architects have a well-defended disdain for dependency checking, and we can understand their arguments. But without it, Ximian Desktop can't figure out what to install, what to upgrade, and what to leave alone.

That means, basically, that it's a lot more work for us to add really good support for Slack than it is for us to add good support for, say, Conectiva, which is based closely upon the Red-Hat model. Not only that, but there aren't a lot of distros based upon Slack. From our support for Red Hat, it's a quick jump to other rpm-based distros. If we support Slackware, it's working with an entirely new package system just for one Linux distro.

Another market force is the profile of the typical Slack user. Slackware users often compile stuff themselves. They know how to install software at the command line. They know their dependency trees themselves, and don't trust or need package management systems. They're hackers in the best sense of the word, and we respect them deeply for that. They don't need things like the Ximian Desktop update service, or the graphical installer. Ximian is about making free software easier to use, and Slackware users don't tend to need any help.

So, what can you do, elite Slackware user, ignored by market forces and business types, if you want the prettiest, bestest desktop in the Linux land? You can download pre-rolled tgzs from the variety of Slack software mirrors, or get the binary rpms or source rpms from the Red Hat directory at our ftp site, and install by hand with rpm. Or you can convert them to slack packages with rpm2tgz. And, in a brave trick of hackery, you can fool the graphical installer into thinking you're a Red Hat user. The command:

echo "Red Hat Linux release 7.2 (Enigma)" > /etc/redhat-release

has been reported to make the installer work, although you're likely to have difficulty with one or another dependency somewhere. Official Ximian support of this method is not available, and we cannot give you any guarantees.

Ummm ... as if ... (2, Funny)

SuperDuG (134989) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109362)

Why would I use outdated Ximian 2

When KDE [kde.org] is already on version 3

obviously newer and better.

Re:Ummm ... as if ... (2, Funny)

Squareball (523165) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109384)

Because with that logic why aren't you using Windows 2000

Or... (1)

mhore (582354) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109407)

why not Windows XP....errr...umm...damn.

Re:Ummm ... as if ... (4, Funny)

Strike (220532) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109501)

Feh, my Atari 2600 walks all over that Pentium 4 AND your Windows 2000 - combined!

Re:Ummm ... as if ... (1)

AvantLegion (595806) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109632)

Geez mods, get a sense of humor.

Awe screw you!!!! (-1, Troll)

FreeLinux (555387) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109367)

Ximian has been Slashdotted for two plus days now, and you go and throw another Ximian link on the front page? Use your head. Sheesh

Re:Awe screw you!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109483)

um.... Ximian has NEVER AFAIK been /.ed in the past and it isn't right now.

You sir, are an Idoit.

You better look in a mirror. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109514)

Three minutes to load the home page says, that you are the idiot.

Re:You better look in a mirror. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109637)

You'r use of punctuation, makes, you an idiot!!

Re:You better look in a mirror. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6110031)

You'r use of

I see you attended the punctuation lecture. However you seem to have skipped the spelling lecture. Eh?

Re:Awe screw you!!!! (1)

Aknaton (528294) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109542)

It's an OSNews link, not a Ximian link.

So.. (-1, Redundant)

CausticWindow (632215) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109387)

Is Ximian Desktop the continuation of Gnome?

Re:So.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109502)

No - it's Gnome's last hope.

Ximian Desktop on Red Hat? (5, Interesting)

Chicane-UK (455253) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109427)

Well I gotta be honest and say.. from the shots I have seen, and from what I have read, I can't really see what the Ximian Desktop offers Red Hat users over the superb BlueCurve front end on the most recent versions.

Antialiasing, clean & well organised style, custom icons, and specially developed management tools. I really really rate what Red Hat have done, and I could never see myself paying for something like Ximian Desktop to replace BlueCurve.

Re:Ximian Desktop on Red Hat? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109513)

Did you stop reading when the changes to things like OpenOffice were made or the Printing system?

Re:Ximian Desktop on Red Hat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109782)

XD2 is free dude

Re:Ximian Desktop on Red Hat? (3, Interesting)

MS_is_the_best (126922) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109786)

When the first Ximian Desktop was released it was certainly better than Redhat's Gnome. With XD2, compared to Redhat 9, I think the difference is smaller.

Nevertheless I still like what Ximian does. Their Open Office and Gnome patches are still good. I will just wait for Redhat to include them. This because running a distro and Ximian Desktop and upgrading packages from different sources gave me a lot of nasty problems in the past (Redhat explicitly tells to uninstall Ximian in their release notes). However I do not know how that will be with this release...

If you read the interview it was clear that the main advantage for using Ximian will not be for the home user, but for large corporations. Better application management/more consistency and real user problems solving.

Nevertheless I think Ximian is a nice open source company, providing the communuity with good patches and Evolution and help adoption of linux. So props to them anyway!

Re:Ximian Desktop on Red Hat? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109841)

> the main advantage for using Ximian will not be for the home user, but for large corporations.

Ah, that's the reason for including XMMS and other stuff. :-)

Rock on, Ximian... (5, Interesting)

rainmanjag (455094) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109459)

It's kinda strange... OSS with it's release-early-release-often idea almost makes it seem like improvements come so slowly, because they flow in a discrete trickle rather than the major leaps that come much further apart (emphasis on "seem")... Ximian's been working behind a black curtain for so long, it makes XD2 seem like such a gargantuan improvement...

Though significantly delayed, XD2 was released when Ximian got everything right... and they have... finally I have a desktop environment that I can proud to show to my consulting customers as a viable option...

-jag

Ximian and money? (1)

ceswiedler (165311) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109464)

Sorry, I'm behind on my distros. Is Ximian free-as-in-beer, i.e. downloadable? Do I get all of the features he's talking about, or do I have to sign up for a channel subscription?

Up to now, the best desktop distro seemed to be RH9.0, but this article impressed me a lot.

Re:Ximian and money? (1)

mhore (582354) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109577)

Last I heard, you only had to pay for their Evolution connector (to connect to Exchange server)... and I think certain portions of their Red Carpet update service (if memory serves).

The actual desktop was (is, most likely) a free download -- and in my opinion, well worth it, except that it conflicted with some Redhat RPMs so that up2date/RHN had a fit.

Re:Ximian and money? (3, Informative)

chetohevia (109956) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109584)

Ximian Desktop 2 is not a complete distro. It's software for a variety of operating systems.

It is (or will be, upon release) available for download free-of-charge. Source is/will be available for all open/free components. Patches are being and will be submitted upstream to maintainers.

Purchasers ($99) get extras including 3rd party (proprietary) software, PLUS 30 days support, PLUS a year's Red Carpet Express high-speed updates.

a.

OpenOffice source (1)

Newtonian_p (412461) | more than 11 years ago | (#6110110)

Do you know if they make their source code for their modified version of OpenOffice.Org available?

The relevent directory on their ftp is empty:
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/openoffice/redhat -70-i386/source

The Interview does mention a openoffice-1.0-0.ximian.1.src.rpm.

No mention of when the source release of XD2. (3, Interesting)

mgpeter (132079) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109485)

Hopefully the week of the June 9, they will also release the complete source code to everything they use to build XD2.

I have 1 Gentoo system at home and 2 Built from scratch machines, and it would be soooo cool to have a ebuild for Gentoo, or at least a Garnome type build script. Especially for their OpenOffice.org version.

After reading this interview I really Can't wait.... Even tried their ftp site, but the XD2 directory is not browseable by an Anonymous Coward!

Re:No mention of when the source release of XD2. (3, Informative)

Skeezix (14602) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109653)

Source code will be released the same week of June 9. It's mentioned in their faq [ximian.com] .

Does it run on linux? (-1, Troll)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109498)

It would be cool if it did! MS is teh gay!

And if it play ogg vorbises, i got all my mp3s in ogg vorbises and divx now!

Re:Does it run on linux? (1)

El Pollo Loco (562236) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109613)

Linux on linux. Infinite recursion much?

Maybe I'm in the minority (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109505)

I think since RedHat has made a concerted effor to make their distro much more "desktop friendly" the whole Ximian desktop loses a bit of it's shine.

I recall back when Ximian first started to come out with some slick looking stuff they were much nicer, asthetically speaking, than any linux distro out there. With Bluecurve and the maturation of Gnome 2.xx it seems the need for Ximaina is greatly diminished.

By the looks of things here I see no need to upgrade from RedHat 9.0 with the exception of getting Evolution 1.4. (And actually if it's faster than the butt slow 1.2 version that would be a good upgrade, now that I think about it.)

Re:Maybe I'm in the minority (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6110007)

Why is this modded up? He's talking about Ximian like it is it's own distro!

Get with the times... (5, Funny)

moreati (119629) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109509)

Quote: KDE has way more options (the clock properties dialog has five tabs!),
Actually it has 6 in KDE version 3.1: General, Timezones, Plain Clock, Analogue Clock, Fuzzy Clock.
For some reason I find that amusing. If you're going to drop some FUD, at least get your facts straight.
I'm guessing 3.2 will have 12 or 24 depending on it's mode.

Re:Get with the times... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109772)

1. General
2. Timezones
3. Plain Clock
4. Analogue Clock
5. Fuzzy Clock

So what is the sixth?

Re:Get with the times... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109813)

Digital Clock

Re:Get with the times... (3, Funny)

moreati (119629) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109901)

Oops, I appear to have fudded in a sarcastic fudding actually meant to defud.

OK, as the other AC correctly noted, the sixth is Digital Clock.

Just wondering... (4, Interesting)

ElGuapoGolf (600734) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109517)



Just wondering, but has Ximian made a KDE version of their new industrial theme?

Ya see, the beauty of the KDE/Gnome thing is that some KDE apps you can't live without, and some Gnome/GTK apps you can't live without. Gaim and K3b/Kmail spring to mind right off the bat.

I like KDE themes like QTCurve and Keramik/Geramik because it makes the GTK/Gnome/KDE applications look the same. If using this Ximian desktop means that my KDE apps will look out of place, then it doesn't really seem that appealing.

A theme like this seems like it'd be simple to do, so I'd be very curious to see if Ximian has really done a complete job of it.

Re:Just wondering... (2, Interesting)

apachetoolbox (456499) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109588)

ximian is a WHOLE lot more then just a theme. its an entire gnome distribution with a ton of apps. redcarpet alone makes ximian worth it.

Re:Just wondering... (1)

ElGuapoGolf (600734) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109638)

What does redcarpet offer that a nice apt repository doesn't?

Not asking as a troll, just curious.

Re:Just wondering... (1)

diamondc (241058) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109766)

the Ximian packages have more polish and include their patches (Debian ships vanilla GNOME)

Re:Just wondering... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109590)

If using this Ximian desktop means that my KDE apps will look out of place, then it doesn't really seem that appealing.

I hear ya brother. Who cares if things work or not! I don't care how interopable they make XD2, if I can't have my pretty RainbowBrite Apps then I ain't a' gonna be using it!

You sir....(scratch that) WE are Idiots!

Re:Just wondering... (1)

ElGuapoGolf (600734) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109618)

Usually I don't reply to ACs, but this somehow seems worth it.

If I change a font in the Gnome CC or KDE CC, I'd like it to change across all apps (IE, default text font, etc.). It's sometimes handy like that. QTCurve and Geramik will do that.

Re:Just wondering... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6110091)

Maybe you should use Windows instead.

Re:Just wondering... (1)

Wesley Felter (138342) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109784)

The answer to that is in the article (sort of). People don't like things that look alike but work differently. You can make KDE and GNOME apps look alike, but a theme won't make them work alike.

Does KDE even have something like this? (1)

teamhasnoi (554944) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109539)

UI Guide [gnome.org]

Re:Does KDE even have something like this? (4, Informative)

twener (603089) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109564)

Sure [kde.org] , even older.

Actually... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109626)

The KDE style-guide is a bit different. It can't exactly be called a predecessor of the GNOME Human-Interface Guidelines, because it has a different aim.

Re:Does KDE even have something like this? (2, Informative)

MS_is_the_best (126922) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109736)

Nat admits his mistake in the interview in the comments:

I wasn't lying, but I wasn't very clear either. What I meant was that GNOME was the first project to have a documented set of human interface guidelines, *and* to have a usability team that enforces those guidelines across the desktop. This has given us a pretty high level of UI consistency, which I think shows. (Now, if this happens to be wrong, I'm still not lying -- I'm just wrong, but I don't think that I am :-).

Diversity vs Singularity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109657)

Diversity attracts but people tends to stay, if possible, at singularity.

Go figure that.

Will you pay 99$ for... (1, Insightful)

twener (603089) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109688)

... fonts of undefined quality and quantity, 3rd party plugins freely available (Adobe Acrobat Reader, Real Audio Player, Flash Player, Java run-time-environment), 30 days installation support and 1 year "high-speed" download (you could also use mirrors)? Or will you continue to use StarOffice, if it's still included for this price, if there is an integrated Ximian OOo? And for only 69$ more you could read your exchange mails. Pricy.

Re:Will you pay 99$ for... (1)

twener (603089) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109862)

Forgot: Are these per-seat licenses? I guess at least the 69$ is one.

Exchange connector (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109693)

I read somewhere that the Exchange connector is non-free. I don't know if that's free as in beer or speech however my question is this: How much does it cost? I was going to go to Ximinian's homepage to check but for some mysterious reason it's not responding...

Re:Exchange connector (2, Informative)

huhmz (216967) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109954)

Q: How much does Ximian Connector cost?
A: Ximian Connector software is available as a free download. However, Ximian Connector will not operate without a valid Ximian Connector license file, which may be purchased at the Ximian store. Individual Ximian Connector license files will be sold for $69 dollars/seat. 10-license and 25-license packs will retail for $599 and $1449, respectively. Volume purchase agreements are available. Contact our Sales department for more information on education and corporate programs.

Re:Exchange connector (1)

ElGuapoGolf (600734) | more than 11 years ago | (#6110019)

Make sure to mention that unless your company has outlook web access turned on, exchange connector just won't look.

Crossover office is a better alternative at that point.

File Dialog (1)

twener (603089) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109727)

How it is possible that nobody yet asked if they again include their own file dialog different to Gnome vanilla's?

Re:File Dialog (1)

matthewn (91381) | more than 11 years ago | (#6110106)

Mod parent up. Fantastic question. The standard Gnome file dialogs are good enough for geeks (tab completion, hell yeah) but are simply dreadful for standard users.

I thought... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109750)

That NAT was illegal in Michigan.

OSX (2, Interesting)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109769)

With all due respect, I strongly disagree with what he says about OSX. I say this because it justy so happens i switched to OSX yesterday. Ive used Linux for years and used gnome, window maker and finallys ettled with kde 3.1. It was so annoying doing all of thw software updates all the time (new GLibc, new libpng, new qt aaagh!) that i swallowed my pride and looked into OSX.
guess what? I got a G3 266 mhz 256 mb ram 4 gig hdd for $100 off ebay. hook that to my vga monitor with an adapter ($10) and get jaguar wt my univ store for $69 and i have spent $180 on a new OSX desktop and $20 for teh shipping total $200.
One day, just one day and i have no desire to even use linux on my desktop anymore. The consitency of the interface, commercial softweare support (Office, explorer etc) and the ability to use X and all my favorite linux apps with fink. And bet of all no RPM hell, no new library or dependecy almost everyday.
What really pissed me off was when the new version of some software that is 2megs or so (say gaim) requires a new perl , gtk, glibc and X windows! sheesh. it was so hard to keep the same desktop (mandrak 9.0 in my case) since the stuff would be outdates so quickly. Even if iam a CS major.. i dont like constaly updatiung my OS for every new app and no i dont want to compile everything
That is why i switched and that is thereality of using linux . The biggest reson why people will still use windows --linux is fucking hard to use and maintain on the desktop.

Re:OSX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109846)

Is it THAT hard to stick to ONE distribution? If you use Redhat 8, just STICK to the RH 8 packages. You won't go into dependency hell, then.

Once you download and compile stuff yourself, you're on your own.

MOD DOWN PLZ (0, Troll)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 11 years ago | (#6110057)

The biggest reson why people will still use windows --linux is fucking hard to use and maintain on the desktop.

We can't have that around here, now can we?

Re:OSX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6110155)

And no spell checker...bummer

Shocking... (1)

snofla (236898) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109843)

A side note:
It's probably fair to say that the ratio of time our Connector developers spend in the debugger versus the Emacs buffer is higher than with most software. It's not as high as with Wine; Jeremy White from Codeweavers will tell you that his hackers spend very close to 100% of their time in gdb.

I first thought he talked about GNOME hackers using gdb to develop on GNOME, which shocked me. Then I realized he was talking about reverse engineering MSFT software: The only single valid reason to spend >90% of your time in a debugger.

Value Proposition? (1)

Sean80 (567340) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109920)

Perhaps I'll get modded as a troll, but I'm still not clear on what the value proposition is for Linux desktops which essentially attempt to copy Windows and Apple. Or is ultimately built just for the fun of it?

With Windows I get support for almost every application under the sun, gaming support. Everything. With Apple I get a long heritage of usability and user-interface innovation. With Ximian, I get what? Something for free? Is that enough to make me up and change my desktop? For me, not likely. For somebody else, perhaps, but I'm not convinced.

So ultimately, what's the elevator pitch for Ximian?

Re:Value Proposition? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109985)

Umm.. ok. If you go with Apple you have to pay 200 bucks more for hardware comparable to a PC. You're deluding yourself if you think businesses are switching to Apple (consumers, students.. yes). A lot of foreign governments, and even corporations here in the US are wary of Windows licensing and who knows what future restrictions Microsoft might pull on them. Hence, the switch to Linux (Ximian, RedHat).

So, How Does One Pronounce "Ximian"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6109925)

Would it be more like:

"Zimmian" - as, for instance "xylophone".

"Shimmian" - as in the romanization of some Chinese words, like "Xinhua".

"Khimmian" - as in the Russian word for "good", "Xopo(sh)o". (Sorry, don't know how to do Cyrillic here)

"Ksimmian" - with the 'X' as in "exit".

Enquiring minds demand to know!!!

Re:So, How Does One Pronounce "Ximian"? (1)

Mark Gordon (14545) | more than 11 years ago | (#6110017)

"Zimmian" - as, for instance "xylophone".

There was some discussion of possible translations of "Ximian" from Chinese, back when the name was being considered. Most of them were nonsensical, and none was offensive. My favorite was "western noodle", which suggests the slogan, "the fastest way to send pasta".

I already don't like this guy. (1)

Leebert (1694) | more than 11 years ago | (#6109955)

My little sister looked at This picture [osnews.com] and commented on how cute he was.

Now I'm jealous. Nerds aren't supposed to be cute. :)

Still on the .NET path to Hell (1, Insightful)

Col_Panic (120757) | more than 11 years ago | (#6110039)

As long as those GNOME fools continue down that insane path to hell that is .NET and Ximian is leading the way to "freedom by enslaving ourselves to MicroSoft Standards" there is no way I'm touching either GNOME or Ximian. Miguel, et. al. are just a bunch of opportunists that are using Free Software and Free Software developers to make a quick buck. And lets face it, even with Ximian trying to clean up the mess, GNOME still is one big freakin mess. The one line about the desktop theme thats "also a Nautilus theme, a Galeon theme, an XMMS theme, an OpenOffice.org theme, a Metacity theme, and an Icon theme" made me chuckle.... god forbid in their rush to shove all their heads up Bill Gates' arse they ever go back and fix the fragmented hideous cludge that is GNOME.

Re:Still on the .NET path to Hell (1)

diamondc (241058) | more than 11 years ago | (#6110124)

Mmm.. I wouldn't say Miguel is an opportunist using Free Software to make a quick buck. He used to work on Sparc Linux a long time ago. Plus Ximian hires a lot of GNOME hackers.

You also don't know anything about GNOME themes. A GNOME theme includes a GTK & Metacity and Icon theme for *consistency*.

I say get off your high horse and enjoy the Free Software Ximian provides.

Re:Still on the .NET path to Hell (-1, Flamebait)

Col_Panic (120757) | more than 11 years ago | (#6110162)

It's not the "free" software Ximian provides... well, in their case it isn't software they are providing as much as a "less fucked up version of the GNOME mess" that they are providing... its the GNOME adaptation of .NET and C# that is the insane part. One does not need to be on any horse, fool, er sir, to know what happens to ANYONE that helps a MicroSoft become "the" standard. Wake up.

Re:Still on the .NET path to Hell (0, Troll)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 11 years ago | (#6110154)

I can't believe posts like these continue to be idolized and modded up. What Ximian, GNOME and friends (your "bunch of opportunists") are doing is bringing open source to the real world in a better package than it is delievered now. The problem with folks like yourself is that you subscribe to the "death to infidels" POV that unfortunately permeates so much of the OSS world. I bet you're one of those people who can't stand seeing RH or companies like Lindows making a buck. Only "absolutely free" is acceptable, eh? "In bed with Microsoft" indeed. Do you even understand what Mono is about? Here's a free hint: Absolutes don't work well in the real world, regardless of how attractive they are in those lofty whitepapers you find in gnu.org.

You people talk about freedom so much - why don't you excercise that freedom and just ignore them? Those of us who enjoy using Ximian, GNOME and Mono day after day side by side with commercial software will be so much happier if you just keep your flamebait to yourself.

Mono and Viruses (1)

Fembot (442827) | more than 11 years ago | (#6110151)

"What is pretty likely to happen in the near future is that we'll ship C# bindings for key things like the Evolution backend data stores -- your mail, your calendar, your addressbook, etc. -- at some point soon. This means the community can use Mono to extend Evolution and the desktop without all the hassle of diving into the web of C-based GObjects."

And presumably write more damm email viruses, making them cross platform even in the process :-(
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