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Sweden To Outlaw File Sharing, Crypto Breaking?

simoniker posted more than 11 years ago | from the bad-things-afoot-in-scandinavia dept.

Censorship 578

Martin Kallisti writes "The Swedish Department of Justice has today proposed a bill to be put into effect, if it passes Parliament, on the 1st of January, 2004. It is in accordance to EU directives, but will also criminalize the downloading of material from the Internet without the explicit permission of the copyright holder. Furthermore, it will become illegal to break cryptos, circumvent copy protection (mod chips et al), copy books, and as I understand it, use software that is designed to help with any of these tasks, and many other things." An anonymous reader points to an English-language article about this Swedish EUCD proposal, which also mentions a hefty $4 levy on blank digital media such as CD-ROMs.

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DMCA (4, Interesting)

benna (614220) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238741)

Man and I thought the DMCA was bad. This law is just ridiculus. If sweden has any free speech rights in their constitution I doubt ths law will be enforcable. Does this law really have any support?

Excuse me, sir.... (-1)

News For Turds (580751) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238780)

Please put my balls in your mouth.

Thank you for your support!

Love Always,
News For Turds

Re:Excuse me, sir...you forgot some important info (-1, Offtopic)

Mr. Balsakon Yurchen (675569) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238814)

first of all, Harry and Dudley become friends

Harry's mother was a death eater..... She made a promise to Voldemort to seduce James Potter and have a child.... then Voldemort would destroy both James and the Child ending the family line and spirit of Godric Gryffindor for good. Making it no more than a house name at a school. But she fell in love, and went back on the deal, and refused to give up Harry.

Harry belongs to the Order of the Phoenix, where he has the power to bring one person back to life. He can only use this once in his life. Voldemort wishes to use this power, coupled with the power of a black Phoenix to bring back Lilly Potter..... And keep her as one of his minions... (Using the black phoenix, will increase her power... and make her MORE of a dark witch)

Of course Harry wants to bring back his mom too... but without the Black Phoenix.

Harry, Hermione, and Ron become Animagus. Malfoy becomes a POLYmagus heheh... (Some sweet Dueling Club battles that they use there new found abilities.)

Ron gets on the Quidditch team....

The trio (Harry, Hermione, and Ron) break into Azkaban... and perform a rescue

They experience FIRST HAND what it is like to be a DEMENTOR

Malfoy falls in love with an unlikely person and even betrays his father over her.

Ron admits to Harry that he loves Hermione

Harry goes on a date!! And makes out with her!!

The fifth years take there O.W.L.S.

Malfoy shows some sentiment towards Harry, and tells him to be careful, that good enemies are needed... and he wouldnâ(TM)t want for him to die.... and to loose him... as an enemy of course....

One of the Gryffindor's becomes a Death Eater... and excells in his spells and power.

Harry, Hermione and Ron all get a visit from Voldemort

find out that Voldemort is Harry's grandfather

Harry is both.... the Last heir of Gryffindor AND the last heir of Slytherin

find out that Petunia was a witch just like her sister... but never given the chance to go to hogwarts, and her memory wiped clean... of ever having powers... and it goes into more depth on the event that caused her to hate her sister so...

And Dudley of course is also a wizard... but does not know it...

find out what happened with Hermione over the summer that she was so embarrassed about....

one of the Trio is killed (Ron)

An old family friend... and once teacher is killed...

another student is killed

Re:DMCA (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238839)

Why is it ridiculus?

People can still download material that the author has accepted you to download. This law _only_ affects people using P2P software to download copyrighted material, nothing else. You can still use P2P software for other purposes.

Among geeks there seems to be a common idea that if something is technically possible it must also be legal. It's simple to knock down old ladies and take their money, does that mean it must be legal to do so?

This piracy of anourmous proportions must end, that everyone breaks the law doesn't make it ok.

Re:DMCA (3, Interesting)

benna (614220) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238869)

Yes but not only does it outlaw the disribution of material that is copyrighted without consent. It also makes it ilegal to crack encryption. Lets think about this with an example. Bob forgot his password. Bob has the md5 hash of his password. Bob knows his password was less than 8 charecters and only used numbers and letters so it is in fact crackable. Bob wants to use a cracker on it but can't because this would be circomventing crypto. This is just one of many such instances of the law. Another is downloading mp3 of music you already own. The list goes on.

You Own the Bits, Not the Music (-1, Redundant)

reallocate (142797) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238994)

If you already own the mp3, why would you want to download it?

Oh, I see...you think that buying a CD means you own every other digitized instance of the music on that CD. Sorry. You own the CD and the bits that are on it. You don't own the music.

I suspect you won't agree, so think about this: If you buy a book, does that give you rights to "download" the same book from any bookstore you happen to walk into? Of course not. Music and CD's differ only in the delivery mechanism.

As for poor Bob, I imagine the law and the courts would take his forgetfulness into account, in the same way that you aren't likely to be prosecuted for crawling through a basement window of your house because you forgot your keys.

Re:DMCA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238997)

I quite sure the law enforcement will not give a shit about someone cracking their own passwords.

The law is fully and only aimed at people pirating music/software/movies etc.

It's simply not an option having millions of people breaking the law each and every day.

Re:DMCA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238938)

Why do astroturfers haunt webforums?

Re:DMCA (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238923)

i relly dont think that this law will work here in sweden im writing from dreamhack one of the bigest lanparties here only about 4300 people
and filesharing is flowing throw the network.
i dont think this law will have any support. its strange thou that i dindnt find out about this now from slashdot cus i never heard any of it earlier.

Re:DMCA (1)

hobbesmaster (592205) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238946)

"...copy books, and as I understand it, use software that is designed to help with any of these tasks, and many other things"

Hmmm... Mental note to not bring this laptop containing an entire book (my dad's) in QuarkXpress anywhere near Sweden.

Re:George W. can suck a dick (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238949)

Well I for one have no problem with this law, unless it applies to property which I have bought and paid for. Obviously, anything which I have paid for is my own, and I can do whatever I like with it. Common sense. If the law is genuinely designed to prevent piracy, then it will only apply to pirates, ie, people who have not paid for the product. If, on the other hand, the law is designed to turn the country into a Nazi jurisdiction (see the DMCA for details) then it will apply to EVERYthing regardless of my personal property rights. Obviously.

Cracking Down (5, Insightful)

Zarxos (648322) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238748)

Well I don't think this will do much. It's like when the US outlawed the selling of Alcohol. People continued to buy it, just illegally. It will be the same here, just with file sharing instead of alcohol.

Obl Simpsons (5, Funny)

Hogwash McFly (678207) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238778)

And there'll be file sharing barons who'll send you your Britney Spears audio tracks in an iPod stashed in a bowling ball that rolls through a series of underground tunnels, with the authorities none the wiser

Re:Cracking Down (5, Interesting)

mumblestheclown (569987) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238811)

"people continued to buy it" is a meaningless first-pass approximation of what happened. Actually, counter to popular belief, prohibition curbed the actual consumption of alcohol significantly. however, criminalization led to every manner of sensationalism such as organizes crime, speakeasies, bootlegging, moonshining, and so forth.

people continue to murder despite murder being illegal. your argument about file sharing is as naive as it is unquantified.

Re:Cracking Down (4, Interesting)

DarkSkiesAhead (562955) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238853)


Well I don't think this will do much. It's like when the US outlawed the selling of Alcohol.
It may not prevent all filesharing or CD burning, but it certainly could take a heavy toll. Marijuana usage is farily common in the US becaues it's easy to get. However, about 1/4 of the prison population are in for drug offenses. I don't doubt that people will continue to fileshare, but not without a great deal of punishment dealt out. And Sweden has shown (with regards to drugs) that it is able to enforce behavior laws more strictly than the US. I would hate to think of Sweden's prison population swelling with college students who can't pay the fines for downloading kazaa.

Re:Cracking Down (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238961)

Are they Cracking Down?

Perhaps.

Are they Downing Crack?

More likely.

Just wondering for anyone that knows - how is the Computer/IT market in Sweden? I know there's a relatively large number of upstanding Swedish folk online, per capita, but can they outweigh the vapid bunch of lobbyists and quasi-luddites backing this legislation?

Ryan Fenton

Re:Cracking Down (1)

reallocate (142797) | more than 11 years ago | (#6239017)

The purpose of law is not to eliminate crime, but to regulate society, which includes removing from society people whose action society deems criminal. The analogy about prohibition in the U.S. is pointless.

Good (3, Funny)

MisterFancypants (615129) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238749)

It is about time a government started taking intellectual property rights seriously. I hope this same attitude will take hold in the US, where we are in danger of the creative people who bring us movies and records going bankrupt due to all of the digital pirating of their content.

Re:Good (1)

MrBigInThePants (624986) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238765)

Nice try spy guy, but nobody believes you.....

Re:Good (2, Insightful)

benna (614220) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238776)

I'm not totally sure that that comment was supposed to be funny. It is possible we have someone from the RIAA here and they were being completely serious.

Re:Good (1)

MisterFancypants (615129) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238805)

I'm not totally sure that that comment was supposed to be funny. It is possible we have someone from the RIAA here and they were being completely serious.

Your momma got a wooden leg with a kickstand.

Good for different reasons (2, Insightful)

nounderscores (246517) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238781)

This will stop windows pirated windows landing on people's desktops, but will be no obstacle to GPL.

As for the draconian restrictions on personal freedoms like getting blank cds and researching crypto, that is good for the rest of the world, because it will allow us to continue on while they are slowed down by their laws.

Heck, imagine if they don't have any local researchers to validate their crypto because getting a licence to do so from the government is prohibitive? We'd become the sole source of decent crypto which we can sell to them at munitions rates! Or give it to them for free if we feel nice.

the free outrun the fettered.

Re:Good for different reasons (1)

MrBigInThePants (624986) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238889)

Have to agree here strongly. I love what the RIAA and the rest doing in copyright enforcement. The sharing habit has been formed, the only way to go soon will be GPL and independant music. Everyone who doesn't drive around in a limo wins!!

Re:Good for different reasons (2, Funny)

mackstann (586043) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238900)

Who is "we"? It's not the US, because in the US, you could just be hauled off under the patriot act.

Re:Good (1)

MrBigInThePants (624986) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238834)

Let's see one of his other posts....
Linux in any form is worthless. Especially since SCO will be shutting it down soon. Hopefully they will sue the managers at the company that makes Linux, too -- people shouldn't be able to steal intellactuel property like that.

Re:Good (3, Insightful)

Luscious868 (679143) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238881)

Hahahaha .. yeah right. The movie studios and record companies are nowhere near bankrupt yet. Look the bottom line is there is no way to stop file sharing. It's here to stay.

The record labels could have cut the head right off of file sharing years ago by putting their catalog online and letting users pay a reasonable fee ($.50 - $1) to download an MP3. In fact, if they would have done it before MP3 caught on they probably could have introduced their own format with reasonable DRM and that format would have caught on instead of MP3(provided the DRM wasn't too limited). They didn't do that. Instead they continued selling CD's priced between $16 - $20 dollars and it has come back to bit them in the butt. There was, and still is, cleary a demand for cheap music downloads and when the labels themselves wouldn't fill that demand, others did. Digital distrubtion makes complete sense. It's cheaper and the consumers are going to be happier with the product since they can buy the tracks they want and don't have to pay $16 - 20 for 2 tracks they want and 10 tracks they don't.

The record labels are monopolistic and greedy and it's coming back to haunt them. Music piricy will continue to be a massive problem until a low cost alternative (like Apple iTunes) is made available to Windows users. There will still be piricy, and there's nothing the RIAA can do about it, but it will not be near as bad as it is today. If the movie studios and the RIAA think they can elimate piracy they are crazy. Software piricy has always been a problem and now that music and movies can be distributed digitally it will always be a problem for that type of media as well.

You Euro's (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238761)

...aren't feeling so superior now, are you?

Smelly socialists. Except the Germans, they're good capitalists.

Re:You Euro's (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238775)

I'll bet it was an american company that paid off their law-makers.. Greed is universal.

Re:You Euro's (1)

benna (614220) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238795)

Greed is universal universal is a record company and a movie studio ergo record comanies and movie studios are greedy C.P.T.

Re:You Euro's (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238782)

Macht schnell mit die Artwork. I must get back to Dancecentrum in Stuttgart in time to see Kraftwerk.

Re:You Euro's (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238808)


enjoy your fascism kids [adbusters.org] , while you pay off your trillion dollar debts, hahaha

pr0n (4, Funny)

eniu!uine (317250) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238764)

This isn't going to affect Swedish porn is it?

Re:pr0n (3, Funny)

coupland (160334) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238902)

This isn't going to affect Swedish porn is it?

Dunno, could undoing a bra stap be considered a circumvention technique?

but what if you don't KNOW?? (5, Insightful)

Surak (18578) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238770)

but will also criminalize the downloading of material from the Internet without the explicit permission of the copyright holder

How do you KNOW if what you're downloading is copyrighted or not and whether or not you have permission. For instance, variouis sites [beta-cc.de] have ripped off Slashdot's icons, which I believe are copyrighted by OSDN and/or Rob Malda.

By accessing the above link, you are downloading copryighted material without the permission of the author.

Re:but what if you don't KNOW?? (2, Interesting)

Cthefuture (665326) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238812)

By accessing the above link, you are downloading copryighted material without the permission of the author.

No kidding. ... but will also criminalize the downloading of material from the Internet without the explicit permission of the copyright holder.

I haven't read the article, but if I take this statement literally then that would technically mean you could not legally use the Internet at all. You would have to snail-mail every web site to get permission beforehand. I mean, every web page on the 'Net is copyrighted by someone.

That would be ridiculous so I have to wonder if that's really what this proposal says.

no need for copy protection/crypto then... (1)

nano-second (54714) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238860)

If it's outlawed to break crypto or copyright and they actually think this is going to be enforceable and effective, why have the middleman? Why not just make what the copy protection and crypto try to prevent illegal.

Oh wait, they probably already are. So if those laws aren't effective and crypto and copy protection aren't effective, then what makes them think these new laws will be the magic solution?!

Re:but what if you don't KNOW?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238886)

How do you KNOW if what you're downloading is copyrighted or not and whether or not you have permission. For instance, variouis sites [beta-cc.de] have ripped off Slashdot's icons, which I believe are copyrighted by OSDN and/or Rob Malda.


Yep, true, I can testify.
They even ripped the kickass Beta-computerclub icon, and the unpatriotic, flawed flag.

Re:but what if you don't KNOW?? (1)

Surak (18578) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238895)

Also, before someone points out that the Slashdot FAQ gives people permission to use the icons, this is only under the condition that credit is given and that the site links back to Slashdot. I didn't see any credit for those icons given to slashdot anywhere on the page.

un enforceble (5, Funny)

jr87 (653146) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238789)

there is no possible way for them to enforce this.Even if they did I could imagine the headline... 1/3 of population rounded up in latest crackdown on downloading.... story at 11

Re:un enforceble (0, Offtopic)

jr87 (653146) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238807)

errr excuse sp!

Irony? (1, Insightful)

YellowElectricRat (637662) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238792)

Is there any irony in this, given that Sweden produces so much porn? It's gotta be in there somewhere... someone, help me out here!

Re:Irony? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238882)

irony? no.

iron? yes.

Sweden for a time was a leader in pig iron production capatilizing on the siemens-martin furnace in the late 1800s.

their abundant forests helped propel them to fame, sometimes referred to as the "pig iron kings"

later in the 1900s *snip*

oh never mind.

sorry. these mushrooms were a bit stronger then i thought.

Some irony, but consistent too (1)

corebreech (469871) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238941)

Sweden are rabid drug warriors, for instance. They are almost alone in Europe in advocating zero tolerance with vicious prison terms for those caught possessing/using/etc.

Goverment bows down to special interest (2, Informative)

silas_moeckel (234313) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238797)

OK so another government is delivering to lobbiest what they want yet again. This is news? Besides the specifics of this case it's just the same old.

John Ashcroft is just plain evil! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238801)

How'd he get the Swedes to do this?

Sucks to be Swedish (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238802)

Oh, and this law will suck too.

(I'm just joking, I have Swedish ancestors... it would be nice to have a little skin color, though.)

if it were for Ol'Sweden ... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238810)

If it were for Ol'n'Boring Sweden, the GOV would outlaw everything that's not allowed ;-) -it is a country of Limit Cycles About Prohibitions, RoboCop_Institutional_Mind AND Too Much of a Lutte Fisk Kind of "Who_Do_Yoo_Think_Yoo_Are".

That's why we mass-moved down to SPAIN!
VIVA ESPAÃ'A!!

This can't be true (5, Interesting)

Arandir (19206) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238813)

This can't be true. All the draconian IP laws come from the US. The MPAA and RIAA come from the US. The DMCA and UCITA are US laws. Microsoft and its DRM partners are all lcoated in the US. Alan Cox is boycotting the US. Every few weeks some random Slashdot poster threatens to emigrate from the US to preserve their dwindling freedoms.

But this is Sweden! As with all non-US nations, it's a socialist paradise of digital liberty. Is Holland going to criminalize marijuana next? Either this is April 1st in the Mayan Calendar or this must be a transcription error...

Re:This can't be true (1)

swankypimp (542486) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238878)

Is Holland going to criminalize marijuana next?

Actually, Holland may well criminalize all types of public smoking [theage.com.au] in public, which would drastically change their "coffee shop" culture. Instead they'll have to bake it into cookies or something.

This is true, due to US lobbying in EU (3, Interesting)

arth1 (260657) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238983)

Unfortunately for some, US lobbying to make EU rules and regulations more like the US counterparts (in the name of free an equal trade, of course) is having an effect in Europe.
Some EU politicians are fighting it, but the governing body does, after all, mostly consist of older men with friends in the big industries, and little understanding of or sympathy for new technology or how the world is changing because of it.
This is as it always has been, just more so %-)

The problem is to get the lawmakers in Sweden and everywhere else to see what is happening, and how definitions of "fair use" necessarily MUST change in an information-based global society.
Local and world regional laws might serve as a temporary hinder, but the genie is out of the bottle, and starting to wake up. Short of turning the into a society modeled after the Orwellian 1984 (or Gillianian Brazil), there's no way to stop information from being free. It may take time, and in the mean time the big corporations and reactionary old politicians can do a lot of damage.

It will be temporary, though. Technology is getting way to advanced to micro-manage and regulate in detail, and lawmakers will sooner or later go back to making general laws like "It's illegal to steal no matter how you steal", which can be interpreted by judges and juries on a case-by-case basis, according to the common will of the people.

Regards,
--
*Art
"The computer is your friend. Trust the computer."

Wow, talk about a levy (4, Interesting)

muon1183 (587316) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238815)

$4 is awfully expensive for a per cd levy. The levy is 40 times what one would reasonably expect to pay for the media. If anything, this will simply cause the black market for blank media to explode. I'm already opposed to such levys, since this assumes that the only possible use of the media would be for piracy. From what I can tell, the only effect this legislation will be to elimante all IT from Sweden, since backups will be prohibitively expensive. Immagine trying to backup a 4TB database. Even backing up to 8GB tapes, at $4/tape it works out to $2048 per backup, plus the pre-tax cost of the tapes. Of course, I haven't even touched on the myriad of other issues this type of legislation brings with it, since I'm sure others will do so. This legislation is rediculous. I can only hope that the $4/cd addendum was attached so as to prevent this from passing.

Note: IANAROS (I Am Not A Resident Of Sweden)

Re:Wow, talk about a levy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238921)

Of course, considering the rediculously high sales tax in Sweden (25%), Swedes will probably not even notice the price difference ;-)

Re:Wow, talk about a levy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238968)

Note: IANAROS (I Am Not A Resident Of Sweden)

What's the point of an acronym if you only mention it once, and have to expand it anyway?

no, it isnt very humorous.

A European solution. (5, Insightful)

rdewald (229443) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238827)

Freedom of speech is regarded by European governments as an important component of civil government, but they don't worship at it's throne like US Citizens regard the First Amendment.

It won't prevent pirating, I think the fact that the law doesn't address *use* is a concession to that point. It seems that they rather seek to prevent pirating from becoming a European industry. I think this is analogous to US laws against gambling, where they still exist.

IANAL, but in Texas, the law against playing poker for money actually makes the *house cut* illegal. I think the lawmakers conceded the point that people were still going to play poker, they just wanted to prevent it from becoming an industry.

Having their cake and eating it (5, Insightful)

Blue Stone (582566) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238831)

I don't get it. They're saying it's illegal to download copyright material without the copyright owner's permission, but they're saying that law abiding citizens should pay a levvy on blank media, to compensate the copyright holders for infringement.

Don't pirate anything, AND pay for not pirating anything.

Greedy and ridiculous.

This just in... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238835)

Swedish computer users emigrate enmasse. When asked where he was going one Swede said "I have no idea where I am going but as long as it has internet connections, alcohol, and no silly laws against downloading other people's copyrighted works it sounds good to me."

overreaction (1)

ukiro (313055) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238840)

The tax on recordable media is measured per MegaByte and indeed ridicilous. I'm pretty sure it will be greatly decreased from the current suggestion, but it will probably at least be a pax put in place, which is bad enough. Why? Well seeing as the tax is supposedly put in place to help feed some money back to copyright holders, we have a peculiar moral dilemma; Is it allright to illegally copy, say, a movie from a friend to a blank DVD? After all, the copyright holders still get some money through the tax on the recordable media! They're sending a pretty diffuse message there.

Second, P2P software will not be outlawed. Early articles on this proposal were all based on the same telegram, written by a guy who clearly had misunderstood a few things. Several of the more serious news sources later posted corrections to that statement. A ban on P2P software would ofcourse be impossible, seeing as the same technology is used for a lot of very legitimite purposes.

A crack on the other hand, which only purpose is to circumvent copy protection, will be made illegal as I understand it. This creates another conflict, as the law still states that one is allowed to make a limited number of backup copies of legally purchased media. But what if the only way to make a copy is to circumvent copy protection? We'll see DeCSS all over again, just on the other side of the atlantic.

I have yet to read this suggestion entirely, but from other comemnts I also gather that there are hints at diminishing ISPs status as a common carrier, which would be the truly disastrous part of all this.

However, have in mind that this is just a suggestion and it will go though several revisions after being examined by various expert groups. I hope and believe this is not as bad as it looks.

Suicide (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238841)

is pretty popular in Sweden, is it not? I can't see this helping. They need to chill out - and change their ridiculously strict drugs laws. Really, sweden is just an uptight version of Denmark. So wonder they have such a problem with their beautiful friends to the west. Its like USA and Canada all over again!

New Business Plan! (3, Funny)

mrklin (608689) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238842)

1. Hoard CD-ROMs now.

2. Sell in Sweden after 1/1/2004.

3. Profit!!!

Re:New Business Plan! (3, Funny)

Chairboy (88841) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238920)

Hey... you gave all the steps. You're SUPPOSED to leave one blank, or else it looks real. A legit, profitable business model has no place on slashdot.

Shame on you....

Re:New Business Plan! (1)

halo1982 (679554) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238959)

1. Hoard CD-ROMs now.

2. Sell in Sweden after 1/1/2004.

2.5 Collect Underpants

3. Profit!!!

Yowza! (4, Interesting)

BigRedFish (676427) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238852)

What a great idea! Imagine, indie bands having to pay $4 per blank CD for the privilege of recording their own original music without a label. The competition might eat into corporate-music profits, after all, so it must be piracy and the majors should be reimbursed somehow! [We all know that the reason for the RIAA's declining sales couldn't possibly have anything to do with their elimination of the single format or statements comparing Eminem to Sinatra.]

I also like the opportunity to inderectly pay the operating expenses of a large software company, whose products I utterly refuse to purchase or use, for the privilege of creating and maintaining bootable CDs for my Linux installation.

Way to go, Sweden!

Re:Yowza! (2, Funny)

EverDense (575518) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238977)

What a great idea! Imagine, indie bands having to pay $4 per blank CD for the privilege of
recording their own original music without a label.


Sounds like a GREAT PLAN to me.
Hopefully it will kill off the next ABBA, before they even start.

Well, this sucks! (4, Interesting)

Dr. Spork (142693) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238856)

Has anyone else noticed that Swedes are the some of the best file-sharers in the world? It's largely because they have such awesome upload caps, typically much higher than other European broadband, and maybe 10X that of standard North American DSL. If this turns out to be enforceable, expect online filesharing to get noticeably worse.

Media Levy (1)

Psx29 (538840) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238863)

According to CD Freaks [cdfreaks.com] the levy can actually be significantly more than $4 since it is based on the size of the media.

Cost of CD vs HDD (1)

maliabu (665176) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238871)

with the levies, CD might once again become more expensive than HDD, per MB basis.

will most people switch back to watch downloaded movies, backing things up etc, on HDD again like in the old days? and maybe we'll have a $20 per GB levy on HDD then.....

EUCD is a failure already (5, Insightful)

GammaTau (636807) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238874)

The EUCD was supposed to be a law in all European Union member countries already by last December. That is after each parliament had two years to pass the law. As far as I know, only two or three EU member nations have modified their laws to comply with the EUCD.

On the other hand, sooner or later the national laws must be passed. I personally wish that at least one EU member would refuse to implement the law so that the issue would be brought back to the EU parliament.

After the fall of Soviet Union, EU became the new safe haven for bureucrates so it's really hard to say how the EUCD situation will develop due to lobbying and politics. What is clear, however, is that most of the national parliaments have not been all that happy with many regulations the EUCD is trying to enforce. I hope that the Swedish parliament will protect its citizens from this legislation that goes way over any reasonable balance.

Europe was already... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6239008)

...a safe haven for guilds and unions.

There seems to be an underlying belief in Europe that jobs must be preserved, no matter what. So if someone invents Desktop Publishing, people in europe think "Gee, we should tax laser printers to compensate the printer's guild".

Whereas in the US, the attitude is generally "I guess the printers will have to find other work"/

here are a couple of better ideas (1)

73939133 (676561) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238877)

(1) People/companies who are afraid that others might steal their copyrighted materials should just not put them up on the net.

(2) People/companies who are afraid that others might break the encryption on their products should simply use strong ecryption. There is no reason to outlaw the breaking of encryption because it really isn't all that hard to make encryption unbreakable. The only thing that was wrong with CSS was that the people who designed it made some serious blunders.

Here are some even better ideas (-1, Troll)

The I Hate slashdot (682705) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238974)

(1) Go fuck yourself

(2) Fuck your entire family

(3) Fuck CmdrTaco while you're at it

(4) Check out this super-cool website [tubgirl.com]

(5) Eat some hot grits out of Natalie Portman's asshole or something.

Thank you. That is all.

-The I Hate Slashdot Troll

Charge a fee or make it illegal but not both! (5, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238879)

I have said it in the past and the same logic still pops into my mind.

How can a government body justify making honest people pay for "assumed criminal activity." When do they start adding cost to paper because someone might attempt to use it in counterfeiting?

If it's criminalized to use P2P networks, then it is unfair to charge more for media to "compensate" for criminal acts assumed to be occuring without proof and due process. I can see one act or the other, but not both.

Frankly, the act of purchasing CD media and being charged enormous prices because of assumed criminal use, then it should then be LEGAL for me to put anything on it -- legal or otherwise since I have paid for the right, in advance, to do something illegal. In effect, it's double jeopardy -- punished before the fact and then to be punished again, for the same crime if caught.

I have no idea what recourse EU-folk have against this, but I hope it can be stopped.

Re:Charge a fee or make it illegal but not both! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238922)

"How can a government body justify making honest people pay for "assumed criminal activity."

This isn't anything new. Governments like to assume everyone is a criminal.

Hate to bring the flamewar-inducing 2nd Amendment/gun ownership topic into this, but for example:

The government assumes I'm a criminal, by forcing me to undergo a background check to prove I'm not before I can legally buy a gun. There are certain guns that I cannot buy because they're assumed to be "only useful for criminal purposes". Etc, etc.

Fair Use in Swedish Law (5, Interesting)

drdale (677421) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238890)

It says here [swipnet.se] that Swedish law currently includes a meatier fair use exception to copyright law than, say, US law; anyone can make one copy of a copyrighted work for personal use (computer software excepted). If this is right, then this new proposal is maybe even more surprising than it appears at first glance.

Re:Fair Use in Swedish Law (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238947)

yeah we have pretty nice laws about fare use.
for exampel its okay to copy a cd and give it to people in the fammily and its relly not clear for exampel a relly close friend can be seen as one in the fammily

The ph34rb33r webcomic is lame and must be trolled (-1)

(TK3)Dessimat0r (669834) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238894)

oOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO TROLLS UNITE oOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO

We must rape the forums [ph34rb33r.com] on the ph34rb33r website [ph34rb33r.com] , in order to deride them, and insult their lame excuse for a 'webcomic'. There are minimal forum rules in place to stop trolls over there, such as a 20 second delay until another post can be done. Obviously, this allows you to refresh the page once the 20 seconds is up, and then resend the data, so that it will be reposted. The forum in question also has image posting capabilities, allowing you to use the explicit material contained upon rotten.com [rotten.com] and goatse.cx [goatse.cx] . In addition to all this lack of troll-protection, the forum actually allows anonymous postings! Members of TrollKore have already trolled their forums multiple times, with crapfloods and the posting of sexual imagery. The posts were deleted after around an hour, but I believe that we have put a small dint in their weak ego. Ah, did I say 'their'? I meant 'his', since he is the only one that runs the webcomic, and has no friends.

A sample of the offending content is here [ph34rb33r.com] . Please note how the webcomic is fucking lame and unfunny, and its very existence needing to be eradicated from the Internet. Also note how the comic looks as if it was drawn by a small child (and probably was). THE INTERNET IS NO PLACE FOR A SMALL CHILD, LET ME TELL YOU, GOOD SIR! At present, this is more important than meer Slashdot, fellow trolls. You now troll for FREEDOM, FREEDOM FROM AN INTERNET WITHOUT LAMENESS FROM SUCH TWATS.

I ask you this... if the forum could be down by tomorrow, isn't that worth trolling for? ISN'T THAT WORTH CRAPFLOODING FOR?!?

I plead to you, fellow troll, this fucking LOSER has to be revealed for the motherfucker he really is.

Thank you.
TrollKore out.

oOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO TROLLS UNITE oOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO

-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-
P________________8',-',";,.P
E_______________#'',-',";,.E
N______________8(',-',";,..N
I_____________#(',-',";,.,.I
S__________#8#8_',-',";,.,.S
-_________#',-.8',-',";,.,.-
P________8~',-..#',-',";,..P
E_______#'',-',";8_',-',";.E
N_____8=',-',";.+#+',-',";.N
I____#=',-',";,._8',-',";,.I
S___#=',-',";,..(#',-',";.8S
-__8(',-',YOUR,.(8',-',";s#-
P_8(',-',MOTHER";#',-',-s8_P
E_#z',-',LOVES,";8',-..s#__E
N_8_.,#',"YOU',";~#,..88___N
I_#.##',-DEARLY,";~8,8#____I
S_8##',-+~'',-',-~#'8______S
-_#.,..-',-',";.'=8#_______-
P_.8+_',-',";,.'88_________P
E___888',-',";~8___________E
N______8#888#88____________N
I__________________________I
S____.oO TrollKore Oo._____S
-_At the head of the game._-
P__________________________P
E___irc.freedomirc.net_____E
N_______#trollkore_________N
I__________________________I
S__________________________S
-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-

Yikes... (1)

curtlewis (662976) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238903)

So if you share a file that isn't copyrighted, you risk being hassled about breaking that law? Guilty until proven innocent?

This sounds pretty severe to me. I can understand some of the other parts of the law, making it illegal to circumvent copy protection is well-intentioned, even if copy protection does get in the way of ethical use at times.

I certainly hope it's not as severe as it sounds.

Laws... (5, Insightful)

Loki_1929 (550940) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238906)

Laws, laws, laws. When your business is failing, laws. When your prices are too high, laws. When you're exposed for the fraud you are, laws. Laws are supposed to ensure the safety and security of folks within a society. This round of DMCA-style laws is just the latest in series of laws designed to ensure that the few on top remain on top. Those who enact the strictest and most ridiculous laws simply hasten their own demise. The issue of copyrights will become an election-decider within two to four years. Folks like us who stay informed are the canaries in the mine shaft of laws. When those in charge get out of hand, we're the first to be alarmed, yet no one has taken notice since we started yelling about copyright abuses in 1999. What will make them take notice is when these broad, overbearing laws begin to affect a large portion of the population, thereby ensuring a backlash the likes of which copyright holders can hardly imagine.

I predict, on this day, that within 5 years, we will see the crippling or perhaps even the complete elimination of all copyright, patent, and trademark laws. Things will get worse, much worse, before they get better. But mind you, when things get rough, we must remember to continue getting the word out to the uninformed masses while we wait for our revenge to fully take hold, that it may obliterate the copyright bastards of our time.

(c) (4, Funny)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238907)

I hereby copyright this post. I expressly forbid these words from being read anywhere inside of Sweden.

Man I can't wait to see how many people end up in jail now.

Cool... just like in the comics (1)

nickgrieve (87668) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238915)

The whole hacker underground with l33t dude jacked into the net and useing cool crypto and avoiding "The Man" gets closer every day...

I've got a hankering for some Neil Stevenson now...

$4/CD? (1)

sn00ker (172521) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238926)

Someone's been spending a bit too much time in Amsterdam.
Also, how will they guarantee that the money goes to the artists and not back into the pockets of the European equivalent of RIAA? What's that? They won't? Gee, what a surprise.
I think that the most shocking story that could possibly be posted on /. with regard to RIAA and the recording industry would be one about how RIAA is disbursing to the artists some of the money they're pulling in from Canada's "piracy tax".
These "piracy taxes" are the stuff of the wet dreams of all the RIAA goons. They get money for nothing (and probably their chicks for free), without any collection costs, and with no right-of-reply on the part of the people who buy CDs for *gasp* backing up data.

Scary Thought (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238927)

More and more we seem to be looking down the barrel of Average Joe vrs. Government. Oddly enough, they don't seem to be on the same side on this issue.

How about breaking crypto of your own system? (2, Offtopic)

yehim1 (462046) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238933)

I work for a company selling network analysers for GSM and UMTS (3G) systems. Our product is not unlike the TCPDUMP network sniffer for IP networks.

First let me introduce the GPRS system. The GPRS core network elements (Base Station Subsystem, Serving GPRS Support Node) is normally stationed far away from each other. BSS is stationed at the site (which could be far away from metropolitan areas), whereas the SGSN resides in the area switching center. They connect to each other by means of a Frame Relay connection, which could be serviced by another vendor (a local ISP, for example).

Buying a Frame Relay connection is more affordable, but since there are privacy issues, operators are forced to turn on a cipher. For troubleshooting purposes, operators would need to look into the signalling traffic for given GPRS subscribers, but they would need to break the cipher.

Our new product line-up includes the deciphering capability for breaking the cipher code in the interface and looking at what's inside. Cracking should be the more correct word.

Are operators in Sweden (we have big customers there) free from breaking the cipher in their own network? Are we even allowed to deliver such a product in Sweden?

If not, we'd be out of business very soon. We have important clients in a big Swedish GSM vendor (guess who), and also the rest of the EU world (which, in my opinion, _is_ the GSM world at the moment).

Anyone in need for a GSM and UMTS support personnel? I need to look for a job.

We need to do something!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238934)

About these stupid ass Nazi laws that are getting passed.

The world is getting more and more screwed everyday.

You have to comply with the way the status quoi is, you have to do everything the way they say.

Be born. Go to school learn what they want to teach you. Study how they say. Get a job, doing some mundane task. Die.

That's life. That's where it's going. Fuck up any of those steps and your life becomes miserable.

Curiosity, creativity, tinkering, hacking, and having fun will become a thing of the past.
Thoughtcrime, guilt/conviction via extrapolation will be how the courts work. "Hey this guy is interested in XYZ .. why would anyone be interested in XYZ without having evil intent?

where XYZ = cracking and being curious about how things work so that someday when it becomes necessary to use those skills for good it will be existent.

For example, the document forgers in Nazi Germany were heroes (many people owe their lives to them). I'm not saying document forgery is good etc. I'm saying it's an example of a "criminal skill" that can serve a useful purpose.

Convict people of crimes (causing loss/hurt), not curiosity. How can figuring out how to crack software be a crime? It hurts nobody. And yes you should be allowed to distribute info on how you did it, so that others can teach you stuff they know and build on what you did.

Sweden DOES suck (2, Insightful)

jovlinger (55075) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238935)

I'm from there, and in many more ways than highlighted by the article, Sweden fails to excell. NB: comments are about the government, not the people, who I miss.

For some reason, the media and government are a bunch of wishy-washy whiners, incapable of seeing far beyond the end of their noses. I think the problem is that politics isn't really a road to fame and power there (egalitarian society, dontchano), so the people who end up running for politics are well meaning incompetents.(*) You know where you get by good intentions.

I could very well see them putting this sort of levvy on blank CDs and then be suprised when sales plummet. It's like the government doesn't realize they exist in a global economy.

Not that it is the worst country in the world, but there is a reason I don't live there anymore.

BTW: Can't say that I've ever come accross that much swedish erotica, in much the same way that swedish fish aren't terribly popular there. Gott-o-Blandat, on the other hand, rocks. Salt-o-Blandat even more so.

(*) with some exceptions. Apparently a girl I went to high-school with is the Green Party's spokesperson. Sharp as a tack, that one.

Does Copyrighted include free? (2, Interesting)

Googol (63685) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238950)

The article wasn't clear whether *freely redistributable* copyrighted material was also to be outlawed. Linux is copyrighted. Is it illegal to download it? How do you determine, then what is legal and illegal to download. Isn't everything copyrighted, more or less?

=googol=

IP Law in two easy lessons

Theft by value: I take something that is yours.

Theft by reference: you think of something; I think of the same thing.

Re:Does Copyrighted include free? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238981)

For Linux, you do have "the explicit permission of the copyright holder" to download the material.

But .... (1, Funny)

Qweezle (681365) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238952)

But, I thought Swedes don't download anything really all that infringing except for all that porn of their absolutely drop-dead beautiful women of theirs, right?

They still have the hottest chicks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6238967)

Why would you be downloading pictures of the hottest women in the world when Stockholm is lousy with them already?

Sounds like Sweden needs... (-1, Troll)

Tromeo (216969) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238975)

liberating.

Hmm it appears that they are behind Syria and Iran.

Place your bets! Place your bets! (1)

CrazyDuke (529195) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238980)

Place your bets on which corporate organizations info is in the meta data as the original author! Favorates include:

1. The BSA
2. The RIAA
3. The MPAA
4. One of the above's overseas meatpuppets.
5. Cowboyneal's secret organization planning to take over the world.

Gas up the speedboat, Eddie... (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238989)

We're runnin 'Roms to Sweden!

I actually had an e-mail conversation with them (5, Informative)

Leo Giertz (584210) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238991)

Asking them to clarify a few things.

It won't actually be as dreadful as the DMCA, since it will only be illegal to break a copyright protection system if you're going to make a copy, it won't be illegal to circumvent it to use it as it's meant to be used. I.e. watching a DVD movie on your linux computer using DeCSS to "break" the crypto won't be illegal.

Neither will these redicilous "region codes" be protected, they can still be legally circumvented.

Further, it won't be illegal to break the copyright protection system on these new "CD's", if you're only going to play them in your computer.

If anyone has any questions regarding this, just send them a well written e-mail, since they're very helpful and will answer all of your questions quite fast. (a few hours for mine) -L

How about crypto's in the newspaper? (1)

gnarly (133072) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238995)

it will become illegal to break cryptos.

That's too bad. One of my favorite things to do is crack the cryptograms in the newspaper. Now I guess all those cryptogrammists who read the paper will go to jail, and perhaps the newspaper publishers too for encouraging such illegal activity.

Short on law, Sweden, and EU (2, Interesting)

f97tosc (578893) | more than 11 years ago | (#6238996)

A few notes to put this in perspective.

Generally speaking, Sweden (or the rest of Europe, for that matter) is not at all as literal about their constitution as is the US. Occasionally, this is not so bad because common sense prevails over unexpected outcomes of ancient formulations. In this case and many others, however, politicians can infringe of freedoms of speach easier than in the US.

A second observation is that Sweden is a small country that always emphasizes international cooperation. In the EU this means that they are usually among the first to implement new EU laws. In the past, they have implemented crazy internet laws (such as making it illegal to write the name of any person on your web page without a written permission) before anyone else. Then the bigger countries thought it through they realized that it was too crazy even for Europe and sent it back Brussel to have it changed.

Tor

Wrong info about the levy .. still not good though (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6239005)

I've read parts of the law proposal.

The new levy for write-once media (like CD-R/DVD-R) will be 0.0025 SEK per MB and 0.007 SEK per MB for rewriteable media like CD-RW and harddrives.

For a single DVD-R disc this will add about 12 SEK (US$1.5) and a 120 gig HDD will cost about 800 SEK ($100) more..

At times like these I'm not proud to be a citizen of Sweden.

So? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6239007)

The directive doesn't specifically make it illegal to use such tools, but makes it illegal to distribute, sell and advertise such tools.

So does this means it's OK to have and use a dvd ripper as long as it's downloaded from somewhere outside the EU?

Sweden's proposal makes it also illegal to download copyrighted material from P2P networks

So what's the difference with the US?

Good and bad in outlawing the immoral (2, Insightful)

Ebony Run (682288) | more than 11 years ago | (#6239012)

It is, in my humble opinion, immoral to intentionally circumvent copyrights, but that doesn't mean we should be implementing laws this broad. I was saying "RIGHT ON!" to this article, right up until the point where the author started talking about software "designed to circumvent" crypto and locking mechanisms. I assume people writing crypto would be allowed to attempt to break their own code?

Furthermore, I have always been against taxing blank media.

Making CD's expensive to legitimate users because some people use them illegitimately is akin to making medical equipment more expensive because some people shoot herion.

I'd like to discard the bathwater, but not at the expense of the baby.

Let me get this straight... (1)

Stonan (202408) | more than 11 years ago | (#6239013)

'It very clearly states that all tools and software that allow circumventing copy protection mechanisms (whether built by programming or by mechanical means) will be banned within the European Union. The directive doesn't specifically make it illegal to use such tools, but makes it illegal to distribute, sell and advertise such tools.'

So if you already have the tools, who cares? If you don't, make sure you d/l from a non-EU site or get your buddy to give it to you on a CD. Unless the authorities film the transfer, there's no proof of distribution.

'Sweden's proposal makes it also illegal to download copyrighted material from P2P networks (traditionally within the EU, downloading illegal material is perfectly legal, but distributing it -- such as sharing the material via P2P networks -- is illegal)'

Is IRC or IM services considered P2P?

The answer (whatever it is) begs another question - what is the exact definition of P2P software?

Damn the Man! (1)

cheeseSource (605209) | more than 11 years ago | (#6239020)

This just makes me sad. I was under the impression that Sweden was far ahead of the U.S. as far as civilized intelligent decision makers were concerned. I was eventually looking forward to moving to a country that valued basic rights and understood the value of freedom. At a minimum in relation to humans vs. companies. Ah well, another country crossed off the list. Here's to hoping that the EUCD proposal gets flushed down the toilet...

Uh... (1)

MP3Chuck (652277) | more than 11 years ago | (#6239030)

"but will also criminalize the downloading of material from the Internet without the explicit permission of the copyright holder."

Which isn't a crime already?? One of the main reasons behind copyrights is to protect distribution rights...
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