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nForce2 GART Driver Finally Released For Linux

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the expanding-choices dept.

Graphics 238

Rejoice, Radeon owners! For those of you who bought an nForce2 motherboard with the hopes of doing a bit of linux gaming on it, I'm sure it was a pretty hard let down to find out there was no AGPGART driver for the nForce2 -- until now. nVidia has finally released a kernel patch for the 2.4.20 release that is now providing GART support. Perhaps this means that nVidia is re-thinking their closed source-isms in favor of a more open policy in the future. A note on AGP 3.0: Note that AGP 8x mode is not available in 2.4.xx series kernels. If you find that X will not start, try disabling 8X mode in your BIOS. AGP3.0 has been implemented in the 2.5 series.

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238 comments

The GPL: Intellectual Theft (-1, Offtopic)

Michael's a Jerk! (668185) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265865)

As a consultant for several large companies, I'd always done my work on
Windows. Recently however, a top online investment firm asked us to do
some work using Linux. The concept of having access to source code was
very appealing to us, as we'd be able to modify the kernel to meet our
exacting standards which we're unable to do with Microsoft's products.

Although we met several technical challenges along the way
(specifically, Linux's lack of Token Ring support and the fact that we
were unable to defrag its ext2 file system), all in all the process
went smoothly. Everyone was very pleased with Linux, and we were
considering using it for a great deal of future internal projects.

So you can imagine our suprise when we were informed by a lawyer that
we would be required to publish our source code for others to use. It
was brought to our attention that Linux is copyrighted under something
called the GPL, or the Gnu Protective License. Part of this license
states that any changes to the kernel are to be made freely available.
Unfortunately for us, this meant that the great deal of time and money
we spent "touching up" Linux to work for this investment firm would
now be available at no cost to our competitors.

Furthermore, after reviewing this GPL our lawyers advised us that any
products compiled with GPL'ed tools - such as gcc - would also have to
its source code released. This was simply unacceptable.

Although we had planned for no one outside of this company to ever
use, let alone see the source code, we were now put in a difficult
position. We could either give away our hard work, or come up with
another solution. Although it was tought to do, there really was no
option: We had to rewrite the code, from scratch, for Windows 2000.

I think the biggest thing keeping Linux from being truly competitive
with Microsoft is this GPL. Its draconian requirements virtually
guarentee that no business will ever be able to use it. After my
experience with Linux, I won't be recommending it to any of my
associates. I may reconsider if Linux switches its license to
something a little more fair, such as Microsoft's "Shared Source".
Until then its attempts to socialize the software market will insure
it remains only a bit player.

Thank you for your time.

Re:The GPL: Intellectual Theft (5, Informative)

bajo77 (632115) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265895)

Linux's lack of Token Ring support and the fact that we were unable to defrag its ext2 file system

Information on token ring support for linux is available at www.linuxtr.net

As far as I know ext2 does not really need to be defragmented as performance is not affected as much as it is on fat*/ntfs. Also there are ways to defrag it.

So you can imagine our suprise when we were informed by a lawyer that we would be required to publish our source code for others to use.

You switched to Linux without reading the copyright? Not to mention that you only need to release the source code if you modify existing gpl'ed projects.

I think the biggest thing keeping Linux from being truly competitive with Microsoft is this GPL...

Now you're just trolling, this is offtopic anyway. The only reason Linux has become successful is because many people add to it...

Re:The GPL: Intellectual Theft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265928)

Now you're just trolling

Ya think?

Re:The GPL: Intellectual Theft (1)

rf0 (159958) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266103)

You don't need to defrag ext2 but you can get a defragger from http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/filesystem s/defrag-0.70.tar.gz

I make no statement about its relability

rus

Re:The GPL: Intellectual Theft (1)

the-build-chicken (644253) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265954)

lmao...damn, I had one mod point left to mod you down and someone beat me to it...hey, ya reckon you work for microsoft??? oh man, this is the funniest thing I've ever read...do you really think that a bit of FUD like above is going to make everyone suddenly go.."oh yeah, he's right...better stop using linux"...dude, give us a little more credit than that!

Re:The GPL: Intellectual Theft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266070)

Maybe you'd get more credit if you didn't insist on biting on blatent trolls.

Re:The GPL: Intellectual Theft (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265958)

You either have no knowledge on Free Software licenses, hire incompetent lawyers, or are deliberately trying to spread FUD (I can assure the latter will not work on /.)

(1) The "GPL compatible licensed" terms only applies to _distributed_ work. If your organiztion really are doing internal only work, you do not have any obligations to make available your source or binaries.

(2) Compiling code with GCC does NOT make your code automatically GPLed (how/where did you dig up lawyers like that?)

Re:The GPL: Intellectual Theft (1)

despistao (133252) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265964)

> Furthermore, after reviewing this GPL our lawyers > advised us that any products compiled with GPL'ed > tools - such as gcc - would also have to
> its source code released. This was simply
> unacceptable.

your lawyer (if any) lie

Re:The GPL: Intellectual Theft (2, Insightful)

despistao (133252) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265978)

> we were unable to defrag its ext2 file system

I had never the need to defrag an ext2 or ext3 file system, anyway you should be able, there are tools to do it, for instance

$ apt-cache search defrag | grep ext2
defrag - ext2, minix and xiafs filesystem defragmenter

you modify the kernel and you don't know how to search on google?

you are a FUD maker, and your surname is either sco or gates

Re:The GPL: Intellectual Theft (5, Informative)

101percent (589072) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265979)

"Furthermore, after reviewing this GPL our lawyers advised us that any products compiled with GPL'ed tools - such as gcc - would also have to its source code released. This was simply unacceptable."

This is simply untrue. Many non-free systems are compiled using GCC. Many propreitary systems [openbsd.org] are built using the Gnu Compiler Collection, and I have never heard of the Free Software Foundation claiming that they must release their code. I think this is either a misinterpretation by your lawyers or general just fear, uncertainty, and doubt on behalf of your company.

"I think the biggest thing keeping Linux from being truly competitive with Microsoft is this GPL. Its draconian requirements virtually guarentee that no business will ever be able to use it."

The GPL is hardly more draconian than the Microsoft EULA. Furthermore, the GPL is clearly not about companies. The GPL is about giving freedom to the user.

"Everyone was very pleased with Linux, and we were considering using it for a great deal of future internal projects."

Your comment significes the overwhelming sensibility of sharing code. All the public resources that have gone into creating the myriad of propreitary products is generallyh wasteful. Their is no point in trying to re-invent the wheel. Their is no point in not sharing generally useful technical information.

I personally admire what your company did in contracting to modify Free software for specialized purposes. This is exactly how Free Software would benefit to our economy, especially for developers such as yourself. The only reason that things like Microsoft EULA's exist is so that someone can take away the freedom of their users and exhibit a system of power over them as people. The arguement that companies must protect their intellectual property is flawed because the money that they make generally doesn't go into paying for the costs of distrobution. It goes into things like making Bill Gates a very rich man. That's a system not at all concerned with compensating the developers, once you make an analysis and really think about it.

As a consultant for several large companies... (0, Redundant)

despistao (133252) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265990)

> As a consultant for several large companies, I'd
> always done my work on Windows

you're FUD (Fear, Uncertainly & Doubt) is too much off topic, try another day.

PD: how much you get paid for your work?

Re:The GPL: Intellectual Theft (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266037)

If you were going to use the software only internally, and not make any money selling it, why would it be a problem to release it for free to all your competitors?

Re:The GPL: Intellectual Theft (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266043)

We were in a similar situation. We got past the "Gnu Protective License", by simply deleting the GPL stuff from every source file we came across. Sadly though, due to the SCO fracas, we've since decided that it's too much of a risk, what with the BSA and everything now being able to also inspect the kernel source code and fine for any infringements, we've simply had to implement a closed-source system for our needs.

Re:The GPL: Intellectual Theft (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266068)

yeah - my company, whixh shall remain un-named, uses GPL code all the time in a commercial product. It's *far* easier to just ignore the license then develop from scratch, considering it's impossible to detect.

You'd have to be totally naive to release code under the GPL |-)

Re:The GPL: Intellectual Theft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266078)

Intresting things to note from this guys earlier posts

He claims he is a Linux kernel devloper but cant figure how to set up networking under linux

This is the second time he is posting this offtopic comment after the 1st received 24 replies after being modded down to -1

Radeon owners? (-1, Redundant)

DHR (68430) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265869)

Why would radeon owners care that a nforce driver is out?

Re:Radeon owners? (4, Informative)

heckpart (683490) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265876)

because it is not possible to run a radeon card in DRI-Mode on an nForce(2) Motherboard

Re:Radeon owners? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265901)

Interesting - how is WET-Mode support though?

Re:Radeon owners? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266074)

Boo! That was horrible.

Re:Radeon owners? (5, Informative)

cheshiremackat (618044) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265894)

Because, before this patch, under linux you could only run an Nvidia based AGP card... Nvidia (used to) only supply an NVAGP module that would not work with ATI products...

Essentially this meant that if you ran linux under nforce you were stuck to an all Nvidia lineup...

The only hiccup is that IMHO Nvidia has better drivers under Linux than ATI... true, Nvidia's are closed source ( a /. no-no) but they are better performance-wise than the open-source ATI DRI drivers...

_CMK

Re:Radeon owners? (2, Interesting)

Kourino (206616) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265998)

It's not really a Slashdot nono. You don't get any help from kernel developers, period, if you experience problems on a system where any closed-source drivers have ever been loaded during the current power cycle. And for good reason; you can't really analyze the code to see if it's, say, smashing stack, or scribbling on the page cache, if you don't have the source. Since you can't rule out the closed-source elements because of this, it's harder to properly isolate the cause of, say, an oops; also, people like Alan have better things to do than narrow the cause of an oops down to code they can't debug.

thanks (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265875)

A hearty thank you on behalf of the 6 of us for whom this story is at all directly relevant.

Closed-Source (5, Interesting)

jobeus (639434) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265877)

I believe nVidia's 'closed source'ism is due to the fact that their drivers for their video cards include code that is not theirs, and licensed from other companies, and thus not publishable... Thus, I can't really see this as a shift to a more open source view.

Re:Closed-Source (3, Informative)

cheshiremackat (618044) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265925)

This has been discussed before on the nvnews.net forums, and essentially Nvidia could open up their driver, or at the very least parts of it...

Consider that the nforce (not the graphics) driver only uses stereo sound b/c the dolby code is properiety and cannot be released. Instead, Nvidia could keep that part closed (binary only d/l) but open the other parts... This is true with their graphics drivers as well... they *could* open up the parts that do not contain the IP of other co's...

So far the best reason for keeping the Driver code closed is b/c there is some "trade secrets" that could be gleaned from an open driver release...

_CMK

Re:Closed-Source (1)

Foddrick (13702) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266020)

Why can't they obfuscate their source code ? At least then it wouldn't be binary-only but really difficult for humans to figure out. Kind of a happy medium.

Re:Closed-Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265927)

More likely the cause is to hide all the cheat code.

Re:Closed-Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266050)

Bingo. Not mention helping users add their own.

Re:Closed-Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265939)

Excuse me, this is abuot the nforce2 chipset, the one I have does not come with a built in Nvidia card, it's got a fucknig AGP slot and my Radeon 9500 cannot do opengl in Linux cause Nvidia wouldnt give the specs.

But this is good. Release specs.

Once again this has nothing to do with nvidia _video card_ drivers. This has nothing to do with nivdia inferior video cards.

Re:Closed-Source (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265966)

I think that there is also a problem with politics, In that the drivers are seen as an asset by the investors, That ATI took years to get theirs right, serves to reinforce this view. Ie people with MBA's have no idea when it comes to engineering. Even if the board and the engineering team think that open source is a good idea then they will still not release them for fear of being sued by the corporate members - somthing that happens in public company's all the time. The sucky thing is that engineers tend to see themselves as being in a acedemic setting (we're all in this together type thinking rather then us and them) and tend to share work amoug themselves anyway, a sort of club members only open source - so its all just legal/politcal BS.

I sware to god that your need to have a degree in intellectual Property law nowadays just to be a programmer. Somtimes I think that all lawers, marketers and politicans should be put on a rocket and blasted into the sun. Leaving the rest of us here to, like you know, do stuff.

Uhh, No ! (1)

AftanGustur (7715) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266146)


I believe nVidia's 'closed source'ism is due to the fact that their drivers for their video cards include code that is not theirs, and licensed from other companies, and thus not publishable...

If that was the reason then they could at least releast the specs for their chipset (the hardware interface, not the hardware's sourcecode).

I recently bought a MSI K7N2G-L motherboard, and saying that I was disappointed with nVidia when I discovered that the nForce2 chipset wasn't properly supported for Linux, is an understatement.

Drivers... (1)

wazlaf (681158) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265878)

I think it's amazing how hardware vendors continuously become more engaged in writing linux drivers. When I think back a couple of years, I could not buy the graphics card I wanted because I was not sure if it would ever be supported...

Re:Drivers... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265887)

Yes, today we are fortunate enough to be able to worry not only about whether the video card of our dreams will ever be supported, but whether the motherboard will ever be supported as well!

Truly marvelous times ...

Re:Drivers... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265937)

Name one motherboard that doesn't work in Linux? I know of none. The nForce2 boards have been working fine for a long time, this update is only for users of non-Nvidia video-cards for a nvidia-board. And even with non-Nvidia card it sort of worked, but not in full agp-mode.

Setting up Linux is in many ways easier. No fiddling with those horrible VIA 3in1 drivers, it Just Works out-of-the-box, DMA 'an all.

Re:Drivers... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265971)

Name one motherboard that doesn't work in Linux?
M.A.D.D.

Suck it, Trebek!

Re:Drivers... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265994)

well, now you wait a year or something and then fiddle with crappy X11 for half an hour. h.

slashdot will confuse linux and windows next (-1, Offtopic)

ZeekWatson (188017) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265881)

Uh, Radeon is ATI, not nVidia...

mod parent down (3, Informative)

DMDx86 (17373) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265904)

In the past, only NVIDIA cards could be used on nForce2 mobos due to the fact that you could only get a nForce2 AGP-GART driver packaged with the NVIDIA linux video drivers. The fact that the GART driver has been seperated from the video drivers means ATI Radeon and other cards can now work with nForce2 chipsets under linux.

YES! (1)

DarkHelmet (120004) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265882)

And people used to smite me for all those times I've been playing TuxRacer [tuxracer.com] on WinXP.

Thank you Nvidia. Other than a having a girlfriend, you have given me most of my dignity back.

gaming already (2, Interesting)

nick58b (536112) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265884)

I spent all last week playing Enemy Territory on Gentoo Linux with my NForce2 motherboard. I get similar framerates to the Windows version of the same game. Why exactly is this patch special?

Re:gaming already (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265977)

Because they was no way to use the AGP port without using the binary Nvidia drivers.. which was ok if you happened to have a nvidia graphics card in your nforce motherboard, but if you were running a ATI, or matrox card you couldn't load the AGP driver :-(
It was one of the reasons I purchased a ti4200 to drop in my nforce1(415-D - no inbuilt graphics card) (and now nforce2) motherboard.

I assume you were using the IGP.. as this would have allowed the nvidia drivers to load.

Useful for xbox-linux? (3, Interesting)

Bram Stolk (24781) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265888)

I wonder. Would this kernel patch be any
help to the xbox-linux development to get
a better understanding of the nForce2 chip?
Maybe xbox-linux will have accelerated 3d in
the future?

Re:Useful for xbox-linux? (1)

cheshiremackat (618044) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265907)

I thought the X-Box was based on the Nforce 1, not Nforce 2 Northbridge...

But probably not... in order to get 3d on Xbox Linux you would need to hack one of the Nvidia graphics drivers for Linux, and since they are still closed source that would be difficult.

_CMK

not quite there yet (-1, Interesting)

Imperator (17614) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265896)

I'm not buying any more nVidia cards until they release their drivers as open source, or alternatively reveal the specifications necessary for the community to write open source drivers. I am not willing to mess with binary kernel modules, since that means using a stock distro kernel and having no assurance that future kernels will have the module compiled for them.

Re:not quite there yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265934)

So, uh, whose video cards will you be buying the the open source drivers?

Actually... (1)

cheshiremackat (618044) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265950)

The New nvidia graphics installer (4369) comes with a new installer that will either d/l the appropriate pre-compilled driver, OR d/l the sources and compile a driver for you... all you need is the kernel-source installed for your current kernel...

Well, atleast this is true for most kernels... I am sure when you get far enough out into the 2.5.XX range there are significant enough canges to break the driver... but if you are willing to stay with a "stable" kernel you will be fine. And really, why game on an unstable kernel?

But, if you want to take the political stance, that is your right (assuming you live in a free country), but I would ask that you send Nvidia's top Brass an email stating why you would not purchase a Nvidia card... I ask this b/c to the sales dept, all they see is a lost sale, not one that could be captured from increased efforts in the linux community.

_CMK

Re:Actually... (4, Informative)

Elladan (17598) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265969)

The New nvidia graphics installer (4369) comes with a new installer that will either d/l the appropriate pre-compilled driver, OR d/l the sources and compile a driver for you... all you need is the kernel-source installed for your current kernel...

That's not the driver it's recompiling. It's recompiling a wrapper layer around the driver that interfaces between it and the kernel.

The actual driver is completely closed-source. It may work with multiple kernels as long as the wrapper compiles, but there's no guarantee of that and it still can't be debugged or audited for security or anything.

Re:not quite there yet (1)

Majix (139279) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265959)

The new nVidia installer will first try to locate a binary for your system, and if that fails it will recompile the kernel interface part of the driver. I'm using the driver with the new 2.4.21 kernel, even if nVidia does not "officially" support this version. I've seen it working on a 2.5.x kernel too (though I think it was a bit trickier than just running the installer).

Re:not quite there yet (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266013)

Yeah but open source drivers tend to sux. Maybe I'm being unfair but a bunch of free software hippes can not hope to compete with a professionally made driver set, Your talking about full on assembly voodoo to get every last possible frame out of the hareware, While, in general, the OSS community (whatever way yon take it) has done some mind blowing work over the years but I think that this is just out of their reach.

Case in point - drivers for the Radeon series have been in the kernel tree (DRI rendering) for years and yet no one has done anything with them, ATI now provide their own set for linux in the same way as NVIDIA.

Further when 3dfx were still around the specifications where avilable and yet the community failed to show any interest in creating their own.

I think that open source is great and all but it is not some magic cure-all for world hunger. Propriety software does have a place and I just think this is one of them,

BTW,,, I don't think your need to have a stock kernel just to use the driver, I compiled and was able to run the module on my machine with out too much drama. All you have to do is make sure you have module support, in the place.

Re:not quite there yet (-1, Redundant)

Imperator (17614) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266022)

You know, the Overrated mods I'm getting are pissing me off. I have enough karma that I could troll for a year and still have a karma bonus. If you don't like me, flame me, but spend your mod points modding up other peoples' comments instead of wasting them on me. I have no idea why Overrated/Underrated still exist after they've been shown for so long now to be so ripe for abuse.

Re:not quite there yet (1)

TC (WC) (459050) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266105)

Um... they exist for exactly this reason... to reduce the scores on posts that have been moderated up when they really shouldn't have been... If you think some people are abusing this, then metamoderate.

I think that this was probably actually a rather fair time to moderate down, since it really wasn't an incredibly interesting post... Hell, it wasn't even correct about having to use stock distro kernels.

Re:not quite there yet (1)

fishbot (301821) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266062)

I've just extracted the 1.0-4363 .run file from the NVidia site, and it appears that although the file does come with a few builds of the kernel module for stock kernels, there is also source which can be used to build against whatever you happen to have installed.

And it does work, 'cos I just did it :)

Re:not quite there yet (1)

Chicane-UK (455253) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266075)

Um... the downloadable driver installer will actually compile a kernel module up for you if you aren't running a kernel that it already has a module for!!

Installed their driver on RH9 with the latest Red Hat kernel and it didn't have a prebuilt module for it.. so it downloaded some source and built one.

The Nvidia driver has consistently worked really well for me btw, across multiple systems that I have used it on.

Re:not quite there yet (1)

antdude (79039) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266077)

I'm not buying an ATI card until there are better driver supports (don't care if the drivers aren't open source) because I want to play Linux native games with excellent FPS.

Re:not quite there yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266156)

This means that you won't be buying ANY cards? Let's see:

NVIDIA - only closed source drivers
ATI - decent drivers are closed source (DRI drivers are slow, buggy and support only 2 years old hardware)
Matrox - only closed source 2D (no 3D) drivers for Parhelia
SiS - no decent driver support.

Re:not quite there yet (1)

eyez (119632) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266169)

... What are you going to buy? I don't see ATI releasing the 3d/tvout specs for radeon cards, either.

For 2d stuff, you do not need the nvidia driver; You can get plenty good performance out of the native X driver for nvidia cards.

Which is all that you'll really get out of ATI's stuff, either.

In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy the awesome performance I get out of my nvidia card's tvout and the occaisional 3d performance when I use it.

Just one question.. (-1, Redundant)

madmarcel (610409) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265897)

"Radeon owners rejoice!...nVidia has finally released a kernel patch..."

Timothy...what were you smoking?

I can handle bad speeling and double
double posts...and occasionally I manage
to overcome the SCOverdose and Cowboy Neal madness...but this....this...<<shakes fist>>

Re:Just one question.. (1)

haoto (679744) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265984)

"I can handle bad speeling and double"

Marcel...what were you smoking?

GART is relevant to the M/B chipset too (4, Informative)

Rolman (120909) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265900)

Radeon owners? Well, that sounds a little bit misleading and should be differently worded, but certainly the nforce2 chipset has features that are not video specific and can be attractive to Radeon users.

The nforce2 uses a 128 bit memory architecture that benefits the system's memory bandwidth as a whole. The GART helps here because you can now combine this architecture with a separate AGP video card, neglecting the relatively lower-end video core inside the nforce2.

GART is an AGP bridge feature, not a Video Chip feature, and the nforce2 is the best AMD compatible chipset out there, combine that with the current best Video chipset out there, which right now happens to be a Radeon, and there you have it, Radeon owners like myself rejoicing :)

nForce2 the best AMD-compatible chipset? :( (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266085)

It's a sad day when the best AMD chipset(s) are basically consumer-level junk lacking support for things like ECC...

Re:GART is relevant to the M/B chipset too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266093)

The best card now happens to be the Nvidia GeForce 5900. Get your facts up to date :)

Uhmm.. that's nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265903)

Maybe NVidia just wants to sell more chips? I mean, I don't know how many customers this is going to buy them, but supporting linux can hurt.

It's not like they are releasing their driver's open-source or anything.

nivida suck my... 9700 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265930)

As a A7N8X owner.. here is a KISS SMOOOOOCH.. thank you assfuckingcuntlicking Nvidia. I hope you rot in hell next time you do something like this. I baught my nforce2 expecting it to have AGP support for any card i prefer but instead it only gave agp support onto nvidia.. others.. no specs.. but this is a good move. .so once again SMOOCH.

Re:nivida suck my... 9700 (0, Redundant)

Eric Ass Raymond (662593) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265975)

What the hell? Can someone confirm that?

I've been considering buying a mobo with nforce2 chipset, but if it not going to work with non-nvidia gfx-cards, there's no way I'm going to buy the motherboard!

Re:nivida suck my... 9700 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266039)

You are posting something on a story that's addressing your question. Are you a fucking moron or you didnt even bother reading the title of the story?!

Re:nivida suck my... 9700 (1)

jericho4.0 (565125) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266089)

Well, this is exactly what this thread is about, the fact that this has now been fixed. I was as pissed of as the AC parent when I bought my A7N8X.

I've been a longtime nvidia fan, but after the 3dMark fiasco (aplication specific optimization my ass), and then this, I'll be spending my $$ elsewhere. You reading this nvidia???

I'm shaking here (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265932)

I'm shaking here. It's SCO news withdrawal. Come on /., I need my fix!

Some info (4, Informative)

localghost (659616) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265945)

I have an nForce board and have been waiting for this for a while. I don't like having to use nVidia's built-in AGP support. However, many people with an nForce board have probably been using this patch for a while. It's been in the -ac patch in the kernel for a few weeks now, and the patch has been floating around a little longer than that. You can most likely expect it to be in kernel 2.4.22.

Second, some people seem to misunderstand the significance of this. nVidia's driver has built-in AGP support already, you don't need GART for AGP to work. This is only true, though, if you own a card that is made by nVidia. Radeon owners prior to now had to use the PCI bus for graphics if they had an nForce or nForce2 chipset.

Re:Some info (1)

jericho4.0 (565125) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266021)

No, we didn't have to use the PCI bus, we just couldn't get acelerated graphics (read;3D) on our cards.

Two questions (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265948)

What games do you play on Linux?
Do they run faster than on Windows?

Re:Two questions (0)

fodi (452415) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266108)

Return to Castle Wolfenstein and UT2003... Only got a 32MB Geforce 2GTS.. Frame rates are slightly better on Linux (well, I can adjust the video quality up a bit and get the same frames as on my Win2K partition).

So that's why.. (0, Offtopic)

chendo (678767) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265949)

.. I couldn't get AGP to work with 8x :/

A bit offtopic, but does anyone have a guide for 2.4 users to upgrade to 2.5? Lots of options seem to have moved/removed, and I dunno what to choose for my DFE-530TX card.

Re:So that's why.. (1)

ocelotbob (173602) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266113)

I've got the same card, and it uses the Realtek RTL 8139 chipset. I get pretty decent performance with it. It should be autodetected by most distros.

As far as upgrading to 2.5 goes, I can't point you to any hard and fast guide, but I can give a few pointers and gotchas I've run across. First is that you're going to need a new modutils [kernel.org]. The old one has died, a memorial service is planned. As far as any truly hard and fast rules go, I can't give many. Lowlatency is very nice on the desktop, acl support is now in the stock kernel, as is greater security options in general. The moving around of options got me too; my first attempt at building a kernel resulted in me building unix socket support as a module, which was bad, but was repairable. Also, encrypted loopback filesystems don't currently work, so if you need them, stick with 2.4. All in all, though, 2.5 kicks the llama's ass with much enthusiasm, and I'm looking forward to 2.6, as it looks to provide awesome performance and some great features that are hard to find in other OS's offerings.

XFree86 4.3 & Radeon 9200/9500/9700 HOWTO (3, Informative)

Plug (14127) | more than 10 years ago | (#6265968)

More useful (no kernel recompilation required) is that a gentleman named Robbie Ward has applied NVidia's AGPGART patch to the Radeon kernel module builder, and the result can be found at here [robbieward.co.uk].

You can find a small HOWTO on getting the lot going at the Waikato Linux Users' Group wiki, at http://www.wlug.org.nz/RadeonOnNforce [wlug.org.nz]. Have a look around while you're there, its an excellent source of information and we'd really love you to add to it.

Re:XFree86 4.3 & Radeon 9200/9500/9700 HOWTO (1)

GeorgeWright (612851) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266092)

Just for your information, wardy just found out that you posted this link and pointed out he has a 1GB/month limit.

You can imagine the hilarity on IRC with him at the moment... :)

Re:XFree86 4.3 & Radeon 9200/9500/9700 HOWTO (1)

Plug (14127) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266112)

Oh. Sorry, wardy :(

Please pass on my appreciation for what he did, and my commiseration if he gets a /.'ing. I dont't think it should be too bad though..

I'll mirror the file and he can put up a redirect if he wants.

Re:XFree86 4.3 & Radeon 9200/9500/9700 HOWTO (1)

GeorgeWright (612851) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266157)

<wardy> George-: mind letting him know its ok, since i've only had 30 hits so it doesnt look like its gonna be an issue

Have fun :)

btw - here's an IRC log of when he first found out :D

<DanielS> you're about to get slashdotted
<wardy> no
<wardy> this is bad
<wardy> :)
<Markey> you're famous now ;)
<wardy> i only get 1gb bandwidth a month on that server
<bruggie> hehehe, better call your isp and disable the account for a while :P
<George-> wardy: hahahaha
* wardy checks how much has been used so far
<George-> wardy: suckered :P
<wardy> George-: grrr. this aint funny :) if it goes over 1gb then that gets carried over to the next month, and if it goes over 2gb in one month then i get charged
<George-> wardy: HAHAHAHAHAA
<George-> wardy: pull it! pull it!!!

Yes, but (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6265999)

Can Linux run Microsoft Visual Studio .NET 2003 Professional Edition? Didn't think so either. Unofrtunately, that's the tool that currently generates my paycheck, so Radeon or no Radeon, the OS still needs a lot of work in compatibility area.

Re:Yes, but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266081)

Your code needs work in compatibility area if it won't build under GCC. This is what standards are for....

who really needs this ? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266007)

i mean, what good is playing games with linux ? i use linux for server and programming purposes only, and never even think to use it for games or on the desktop because everything seems to be so crappy - especially application with non-cli user interfaces. on the other hand, games are easy to port. i guess that's why they exist. h.

Re:who really needs this ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266042)

the world does not revolve around you, mr. ac..
ever heard of the saying 'use what works for you?'

Re:who really needs this ? (1)

jericho4.0 (565125) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266076)

Some of us are doing 'serious' 3D work. The combo of linux and OTS hardware is very powerful. Medical imaging, GIS, CAD, etc. It doesn't hurt that you can stick in the Gentoo UT2003 boot disk after work, either.

Re:who really needs this ? (1)

Alioth (221270) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266159)

I use Linux as my home desktop. Recent RH distros are fine on the desktop - I have my Dad (who is not exactly computer literate) using the Linux desktop quite happily. A benefit of this is he can't run arbitary Windows .EXE files. We don't need the features of MS Office, Open Office does fine and we don't have to spend money on something we don't need. Kmail works fine for mail. xmms works fine for MP3s. Xine works fine for many different video formats. Linux drives my HP inkjet printer fine. I agree that MS Office and Outlook are a bit more polished, but it's an awful lot of money to pay for just a bit more polished. OO and KDE do everything we need without the high cost. If we used Microsoft software at home for what we're doing, the licensing costs would be more expensive than the (reasonably well specced) hardware it is running on.

I do have a Windows partition, but I'd rather not dual boot if I don't have to as it wastes time. The games I like to play (at the moment, RTCW and UT) run natively and run well under Linux, so why dual boot when I can play the games I want without dual booting?

Some tips and hints; (4, Informative)

jericho4.0 (565125) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266063)

As someone who has been struggling with this issue for a while now, maybe others will find this helpfull. I have a Radeon9700 Pro, and a A7N8X mobo. Other combos might or might not have the same probs, although it seems that many similar combos do.

First you need to compile it against 2.4.20. The agpgart patch (as written) will not patch 2.4.21. If you manually apply it, the compile will fail. If you remove the line 'agp_bridge.num_of_masks = 1' from the diff, it will compile, but DRI still wouldn't work for me.

Unpack 2.4.20, apply the agpgart patch, compile, boot. Now 'make clean' in each individual directory in the nforce driver dir, make clean at top level leaves object files lying around. Then make,install. All should be good. ~6000fps in glxgears.

Don't bother applying the ac patches against 2.4.20 to get native nforce IDE support, this will break the DRI. Instead put 'hdparm -c1 -d1 -u1 /dev/hda' in your startup somewhere. The end result is the same.

I'm finally happy on the bleeding edge. I didn't have to set 4x AGP, but others have to.

In other news... (-1, Troll)

ihatesco (682485) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266079)

Microsoft is suing NVidia for enabling Agp on NForce motherboards.

Ballmer: "Before NVidia became involved, Linux posed little or no threat to Microsoft, or to other Operating System vendors."

+ + + +
I think Darl Mc Bride should be moderated as Troll... now he and his Soviet Communist Operation
is making a mess out on Slashdot. :(

MODERATE SCO POSTINGS DOWN!

kernel patch vs. patching ATI source (1)

Spactonic (683577) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266083)

ATI's driver includes its own tweaked version of agpgart which fully supports AGP 3.0 and 8x - I've patched it myself and it works beautifully. I assume Robbie Ward's driver does the same. I'm getting around 7000 FPS in glxgears and around 1100 in fgl_glxgears. The advantage of patching ATI's driver is that you don't have to patch and recompile the kernel each time you make a change to it

Re:kernel patch vs. patching ATI source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266128)

Possibly, but it doesnt provide that support on nforce2 motherboards. which kinda is the point.

Still proprietary... (2, Informative)

amorsen (7485) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266111)

Read the license. No way that code ever gets into the kernel:

2.1.2 Linux Exception. Notwithstanding the foregoing terms of Section 2.1.1, SOFTWARE designed exclusively for use on the Linux operating system may be copied and redistributed, provided that the binary files thereof are not modified in any way (except for unzipping of compressed files).

Re:Still proprietary... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6266158)

That concerns binary-only drivers. nForce USB, IDE and AGP features are/will be supported by standard Linux kernel.

Other nForce linux drivers and docs (2, Informative)

CondeZer0 (158969) | more than 10 years ago | (#6266153)

Now if only they could release the source for the nvnet Ethernet drivers [petitiononline.com]...

Or at least release enough docs so that open source drivers could be implemented; I'm running 2.5.x, and had to use an additional network card because the (crappy)binary drivers from nvidia only support ancient kernels, not to mention there is no support for *BSD or other OSes.

Better audio support would be nice too... ALSA handles it, but in a very dumbed down mode, with many features not supported because nvidia doesn't want to release the docs, and AFAIK there is not even binary drivers for that...

But the network drivers are the biggest pain, in my company we have >20 Linux desktops, and is a PIA to have to install manually the drivers in each box, and pray that the kernel you are using is supported.

Keep in mind that even if the nvidia binary graphics drivers are quite good, the nforce drivers are _crap_ and haven't been updated since November last year, there are various bugs that nvidia said would be fixed in the next release, but so far the users are stuck.

Oh, well, I guess that I(and my company) will buy VIA based boards from now on... *sigh*

Best wishes

\\Uriel

P.S.: Don't forget to sign the petition, maybe nvidia gets a clue when they realize how many of their customers they are pissing off:
http://petitiononline.com/nforce2/petition.html [petitiononline.com]
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