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Novell Nterprise Linux Services Announced

CmdrTaco posted about 11 years ago | from the couple-years-late dept.

Linux 236

eer writes "At BrainShare (Novell's customer/developer conference), Novell customers reacted positively to the news that they would have the choice of running Novellâ(TM)s network services on Linux or NetWare or both. Today the company provided more details by introducing Novell Nterprise Linux Services, which will give customers file, print, messaging, directory and management services in an integrated package that runs on the Red Hat Enterprise Linux and SuSE Linux Enterprise Server distributions--along with providing those customers with comprehensive Novell technical support, training and consulting services for Linux. Partner companies, including IBM, HP, Dell, Red Hat and others, also voiced their support for Novell's Linux."

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236 comments

fp (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6283782)

fp!

linux is teh ghey!

FP! YOU FAIL IT ALL YOU NIGGERS OUT THERE! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6283786)

YOU FAIL IT is the gayest troll ever. fuck you. die niggers!

Not Microsoft? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6283798)

It's only a matter of time. I bet its a big secret project right now. A big, secure Linux, teamed up with the NSA, so they can say `hey, if these guys trust us, YOU can`.

Secret project? Yes Actual product? No (2, Interesting)

dcavanaugh (248349) | about 11 years ago | (#6284469)

I would be shocked if Microsoft didn't have a large groups of people studying Linux; they may very well have their own internal distro. Considering that M$ needs all the security help it can get, NSA would be a good base for such a thing.

The real goal of M$ Linux would be to take concepts that work and port them back to Windows, so as to reinforce the monopoly in the places where it is crumbling. They might try to use marketing magic to bring some of the NSA credibility to Windows, although they are a long way from having a product that would remain secure long enough to make the effort worthwhile.

Microsoft is a mature IT company. They have to hold onto Windows because any other technology will cannibalize their revenue stream faster than new customers can replenish it. They face a dilemma in that competitors are free to bring their Linux submarines to periscope depth and launch torpedoes at the M$ battleship.

There may be a point in the future when some other technology undercuts or outperforms Linux and the Red Hats of the world have grown to a size where they can't adopt the new stuff without killing their existing base.

Two fingers to SCO (2, Insightful)

suds (6610) | about 11 years ago | (#6283802)

Excellent move by Novell. Basically they are showing two fingers to SCO and their silly legal moves. Ours is one of the many asking novell for providing linux support for a while. And we are glad to see it arrive finally.

Hey Novell ... (5, Funny)

DogIsMyCoprocessor (642655) | about 11 years ago | (#6283807)

Buy a vowel.

Re:Hey Novell ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6283829)

i don't get it.

Re:Hey Novell ... (2, Funny)

jo42 (227475) | about 11 years ago | (#6283994)

Nterprise

Some marketing wanker needs to learn to spell. Or is this based on 'NT' - I'm so confused!

Re:Hey Novell ... (5, Funny)

L. VeGas (580015) | about 11 years ago | (#6284107)

This is obviously part of Novell's bold new wave to hijack attention from the letter "i" by introducing the "n". Apple succesfully made e's look old fashioned (e-mail, eMachine) by introducing the "i" (iPod, iMac).

I, for one, won't stand for it! What next? Ntelligence? Nterior design? I like I. You like I.

I I I I!

Even Star Trek used I.
Kirk (calling on communicator): Scotty!
Scotty: I, captain.

I is a part of geek culture and should NOT be abandoned for the mushy N.

Re:Hey Novell ... (1)

Craig Maloney (1104) | about 11 years ago | (#6284358)

That's "Aye", not I.

Re:Hey Novell ... (2, Funny)

WTFmonkey (652603) | about 11 years ago | (#6284430)

Good lord, I hope you're trying to be funny, 'cause if not, that's just sad.

Mushy? No. 'n' is an important char indeed. (1)

Eric_Cartman_South_P (594330) | about 11 years ago | (#6284522)

pr0n

Re:Hey Novell ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6284254)

Buy a vowel.

I don't know about buying, but I'm sure that SCO would be happy to license them the letter "O" :o)

Re:Hey Novell ... (2, Funny)

Moskie (620227) | about 11 years ago | (#6284562)

Novell... no-vowel.

Coincidence? I think not. Or is that "coNcidence?"

Whew, (5, Funny)

Angry White Guy (521337) | about 11 years ago | (#6283811)

I thought that they named it Novell NTerprise, and were setting themselves up for litigation.

BrainShare (4, Funny)

onion2k (203094) | about 11 years ago | (#6283814)

At BrainShare (Novell's customer/developer conference)...

How many brains do they have to share between them?

Re:BrainShare (2, Funny)

Devil Ducky (48672) | about 11 years ago | (#6283878)

Apparantly only one or it would be called BrainsShare. But that's fine because most of the time people're not even using most of their brain, (how much processing power does it take to watch TV?) so someone else borrowing it shouldn't bother you, you probably would't even notice. The only questions I have are, how many people are sharing that one brain? Is it in some sort of jar, or someone's head? Who's brain was it before, hopefully they didn't do drugs or drink or anythign fun with their lives...

Re:BrainShare (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6284161)

For some reason I'm sensing some Borg/Matrix thing where you go plug your head into some networking equipment. Maybe BrainShare is where it all starts... Be very afraid...

A couple years late? (1, Insightful)

erat (2665) | about 11 years ago | (#6283815)

I guess there was a window in which applications could be ported to Linux and Novell missed it?

fainlly! (4, Funny)

Horny Smurf (590916) | about 11 years ago | (#6283818)

We'll be able to print from linux!

And, if i'm reading this right, we can have files under linux too!

In your face SCO!

Re:finally! (2, Interesting)

Angry White Guy (521337) | about 11 years ago | (#6283859)

What we really have is a repacement for NIS+

If Nterprise uses an alternate file ownership scheme with network ACL's, I'm all for it!

Re:fainlly! (1)

FroMan (111520) | about 11 years ago | (#6284229)

I know this was written in jest, yet I think I would like to mention that using cups for printing in linux is great now. Its terribley easy to setup and it just does its thing without much intervention.

Novell Is Smart. (2, Insightful)

jellomizer (103300) | about 11 years ago | (#6283832)

Unlike SCO who just cries fowl when they realize that they are not going to make it. Novell knows that for Servers Linux is where the money is and they are now (A little late) putting some effort into it. The last time I looked at a Novell System was 4 years ago. But it ran a modified version of MS DOS. Although it was a pretty stable system. I always thought if they just port their tools to Linux they can have a good competing system now and actually get new customers and not just hang on to their current base.

Re:Novell Is Smart. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6283887)

It didn't run a modified version of MS DOS, it used DOS to bootstrap itself.

Re:Novell Is Smart. (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6283914)

he's right. please mod parent up

Re:Novell Is Smart. (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6283947)

And he's right.

Please mod parent up. K, thanks.

Re:Novell Is Smart. (3, Informative)

WickedLittleSlaveBoy (445391) | about 11 years ago | (#6283924)

it only used MSDOS(or PCDOS or DRDOS) for bootstrapping, Netware was never a "modified version of MS DOS".

Have a proof-read on me! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6284014)

Unlike SCO
, who just cry foul when they realize that they are not going to make it, Novell knows that, for servers, Linux is where the money is. They are now (a little late) putting some effort into it.

The last time I looked at a Novell System was 4 years ago, but it ran a modified version of MS DOS. Although it was a pretty stable system I always thought if they would just port their tools to Linux they could have a good competing system and actually get new customers instead of just hanging on to their current base.

Remember, you can overuse commas when you should break it into seperate sentences, but you can also overuse periods. (The tenses of verbs should also agree, it helps to make the sentence more coherent.)

You may now flame me for any errors I made.

Re:Novell Is Smart. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6284079)

'cries foul' -- odious, not aviary

Re:Novell Is Smart. (5, Informative)

sphealey (2855) | about 11 years ago | (#6284145)

The last time I looked at a Novell System was 4 years ago. But it ran a modified version of MS DOS.
"A lie can run around the world while the truth is tying it's shoelaces".

Please (please?) can we stop with the "Novell runs on MS-DOS" business? Propriatary hardware (Sun, IBM, most minis and workstations) have ROM-based bootstrap loaders and monitors built in so that the machine will boot and can be managed/repaired even if the main OS is dead. This doesn't mean that these systems "run" on the bootstrap loader.

Since about Netware 1.1 Novell software has always run on commodity Intel boxes. Commodity boxes don't have bootstrap loaders or monitors. So Novell uses xx-DOS, which is cheap, simple, fits on a floppy, and understood by most sysadmins worldwide, as their bootstrap loader and monitor. After boot, feel free to do a "REMOVE DOS" command and purge all traces of DOS from memory.

Netware DOES NOT "run on MS-DOS". And if you think it does, I really have to question that "+5 Informative".

sPh

Re:Novell Is Smart. (1)

lars_stefan_axelsson (236283) | about 11 years ago | (#6284274)

SCO who just cries fowl

Bird brains the lot of them!

Re:Novell Is Smart. (1)

ryanvm (247662) | about 11 years ago | (#6284389)

The last time I looked at a Novell System was 4 years ago. But it ran a modified version of MS DOS.

So what, Linux is the same way [ffm.fgan.de] . ; )

Re:Novell Is Smart. (2, Interesting)

Lumpy (12016) | about 11 years ago | (#6284668)

I also agree that novell was going downhill for a long time now... I have a copy of Novell netware 5.1 with 10 user licenses in my drawer that has never been used... why? because 4.x is still doing the job fine for the decriped old crap that still uses it. (old dos based product that I hope dies real soon.)

The novell server it is on has been up for over 7 years now. noone touches it except to change the backup tape daily. no administration, no reboots, no nothing ever needed to be done to it. something that is 100% impossible with any microsoft server ever made. it serves the files and printers flawlessly. Management 3 years ago wanted to upgrade it so they made me buy 5.1 and the new user pack.. I naver installed it as it is pure stupidity to mess with something that is not broke...

I really hope that that old reliability and efficency that was the basis of novell is coming along with this product of theirs...

because no programmers at microsoft are capable of it, and BSD or linux is the only thing even close to the realiability and speed of Novell.

My only problem I ever had with netware was the insane way of configuring netware... what sick person thought that was a good idea? it makes editing sendmail configs by hand look easy.

Way to go Novell (5, Interesting)

jasonsfa98 (648370) | about 11 years ago | (#6283833)

More great stuff from them.

I have seen many people put Novell down recently with all the SCO crap going on. But the truth is, they really do make great stuff that nobody can compete with (right now). Linux/Sendmail/mySQL is great (I use it a lot) but everything from Novell is just easier to deploy (flame bait).

I mean ... can anyone challenge GroupWise?

Re:Way to go Novell (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6284029)

I mean ... can anyone challenge GroupWise?
Unfortunately there are tons of consultants who think they can, advocating all Microsoft solutions because of better integration and "industry standards".

They don't even have to challenge it. Just show pretty pictures and spend enough money on researching Outlook that managers then have little or no choice but to follow through (or be seen having wasted money). *sighs*

Re:Way to go Novell (3, Insightful)

Epi-man (59145) | about 11 years ago | (#6284713)

I mean ... can anyone challenge GroupWise?

As one who has to suffer with Groupwise under Windows at work, I am concerned for your mental well being. For me, GW has been nothing but a leading source of crashes on my desktop. In all likelyhood this is related to our IS department (complete with the Windows experts that plugged my SCSI Zip drive into the parallel port after an upgrade), so I should take your message to heart and not blame Novell.

Anyone use Novell anymore? (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6283834)

Anyone? Bueller? I haven't seen Novell in the enterprise since I was a wee lad.

Re:Anyone use Novell anymore? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6283886)

The United States' second largest bank, universities, hospitals, county and state governments.

Yeah, people still use it.

Re:Anyone use Novell anymore? (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6283982)

A fortune 500 I used to consult for used Novell, but dropped it once all their workstations ran windows 2000. Laugh if you want, but it novell wasn't needed anymore.

I suspect a lot of places running Novell don't realize they don't need it anymore.

Re:Anyone use Novell anymore? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6284074)

That doesn't even make sense... They dropped their enterprise-wide File/Print Server system to return to Peer-to-Peer networking via W2K workstations?

I call shenanigans!

Re:Anyone use Novell anymore? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6284250)

I call shenanigans!

Where'd I put my broom?

Re:Anyone use Novell anymore? (1)

Ath (643782) | about 11 years ago | (#6284538)

I suspect a lot of places running Novell don't realize they don't need it anymore.

I suspect a lot of companies who use you to consult would not know any better.

Oh, yeah... dinosaur agencies (0, Flamebait)

r_j_prahad (309298) | about 11 years ago | (#6284609)

Government endorsement isn't a positive in this case. You've chosen as an example a recalcitrant, entrenched, slow-to-learn, aging workforce. That's why those people use Netware, not because it's better than the rest but because it's all they know and if it doesn't put more money into their pension they could give a shit less.

Re:Anyone use Novell anymore? (-1, Flamebait)

jasonsfa98 (648370) | about 11 years ago | (#6283907)

You mean since you got laid off cause you couldn't keep up? If it's a huge network, Novell is running it.

Go check Windows Update ... I think your network has a security hole.

Novell is coming around (5, Insightful)

Lothar (9453) | about 11 years ago | (#6283838)

Now this is an important step for Linux! To have integrated file, print, messaging, directory and management services on Linux is something sorely needed. Way to go Novell!

Re:Novell is coming around (1, Informative)

Horny Smurf (590916) | about 11 years ago | (#6283893)

You must have missed the part where they said it isn't FREE or free.

Quick! Somebody start a sourceforge project. We can call it gnu/ter-prise.

Re:Novell is coming around (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6284100)

This is an excelent point, and we at the GNU Project heartily agree. We were appalled that Novell has chosen to keep their proprietary secrets to themselves while at the same time utilising the Linux kernel and the myriad of GNU software. They could not have been more flagrant than if they had used The GNU/HURD as a basis for their commercial outrage!

Because of this, we at the GNU Project have recently started GNUterprise, which aims to recreate the propriatery Novell Nterprise enviroment using only software licencsed under the glorious and all encompassing GNU General Public Licence. We have recently release GNUterprise 0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1a We hope to release a final version at around the same time as Jimmy Hoffa is found alive with Elvis in Lord Lucans tropical hidaway basement.

Yours with a GNU/beard

RMS

Re:Novell is coming around (2, Interesting)

TheViffer (128272) | about 11 years ago | (#6284450)

Novell services on Caldera (1996) [com.com]

A step that is seven years late. Find it hard no one remembers this.

Funny, seven years ago this was blasphemy. The Linux world was up in arms. Novell is evil! SCO rocks!! Please leave our little Linux alone!!!

Today, the present. The Linux world wishes for ALL corporations to use Linux. SCO is evil! Novell rocks! Please add to our Linux and make it your own.

No we know... (5, Insightful)

madgeorge (632496) | about 11 years ago | (#6283840)

> from the couple-years-late dept.

I'm not sure about that. Can you imagine if Novell had announced this 2 years ago? Linux lovers would have praised them, but no one else would have taken them seriously because so few people took Linux seriously. It would have been another questionable product/marketing move from Novell.

Now, however, Linux has tons of mind share, and we also know why Novell got involved with the SCO train wreck.

--madgeorge

Re:No we know... (3, Insightful)

Akasha (122427) | about 11 years ago | (#6284170)

Actually, I think this would have been a smart move for Novell two years ago, maybe even four years ago.

I remember the big push by Microsoft to use Active Directory in enterprise networks, upgrading from NT to 2K and using Active Directory to manage everything. Just like today, no one else really had a solution for massive infrastructures (using a client-server setup) with a central system for administration. Sure, NetWare was/is available, but it requires Windows to be utilized completely. This new functionality now makes it possible to have a massive server-clinet network with a non-Windows client OS and still retain the central point of administration.

Novell + Linux = an alternative for Active Directory. Had this possbility been available before Active Directory was proven/accepted, we would be seeing a more competive enterprise business.

Re:No we know... (1)

Phil the Canuck (208725) | about 11 years ago | (#6284279)

So, what, Windows doesn't required Windows to be utilized completely?

Re:No we know... (1)

fubar1971 (641721) | about 11 years ago | (#6284622)

...Sure, NetWare was/is available, but it requires Windows to be utilized completely...

It's been a while since I have touched or even thought about Netware, but digging back into the cob webbed areas of my brain, I seem to recall that Novell had put out a Linux client for NDS. If my recollection is correct, I believe you were even able to create Linux objects in your NDS tree. I don't think you were able to manage your tree with a linux client (I could be wrong, like I said it's been awhile), but with Netware 5, you were able to use ConsoleOne. I know, it did(and maybe still does) suck compared to the WinBlows admin utilities, but if you wanted to migrate away from Micro$oft products you were able to, with a little bit of effrot.

Legacy users only? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6283851)

It's been years since I'v seen Nouvell netware in use. Is there any reason for anyone to consider using it unless they still are still running some strange custom-written buisness app that uses IPX and is probably still running on a windows 3.11 machie in a dusty cuboard?

Re:Legacy users only? (4, Informative)

jasonsfa98 (648370) | about 11 years ago | (#6283869)

Boy have you been left out in the cold. I think IPX has been left out since 6.0 and an option since 5.0.

Re:Legacy users only? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6283932)

That is correct. Everyone who thinks Active Directory is so great needs to take a look at NDS and Zenworks. Novell's problem is marketing - they can't seem to sell their products. But their products are excellent. Except Bordermanager, which blows donkeys IMO.

Re:Legacy users only? (2, Interesting)

Latent IT (121513) | about 11 years ago | (#6284078)

Except Bordermanager, which blows donkeys IMO.

Maybe it does blow donkeys, but I've got it as an http proxy for 1,000 simultaneous users right now - I think that's pretty darn good. And it used to crash a whole lot, but it was a hardware problem - 45 days up, and climbing fast. So sad that so many of those users are looking at pictures of...

People... blowing... donkeys?

Christ, these internet logs scare me. Over 130 MB/day, too.

SALVAGE SALVAGE SALVAGE (3, Informative)

achilstone (671328) | about 11 years ago | (#6284141)

The only good reason to use Novell is it's BULLET PROOF file system with proper file access control and the excellent file undelete utility SALVAGE though other companies have caught up since the last time I used Novell as a Sys Admin in '98, I've yet to see any other x86 network OS with a standard utility like SALVAGE which can undelete files regardless of the application which deleted them.

It's worth the thousands it cost for the licenses when the research dept deletes a days worth of work which hasn't been backed up yet while tidying up their server files.

Try undeleting a file on an NT server which was deleted by a DOS client or a Windows application file browser... ouch painfull.

Those files in the NT recycle bin are only there because the app e.g. Explorer put them there not by the OS.

Re:SALVAGE SALVAGE SALVAGE (1)

WickedLittleSlaveBoy (445391) | about 11 years ago | (#6284225)

that was one of the good features of Netware. MS added the shadow copy feature in Windows 2003, but it pretty much just takes a snapshot of the share at user defined intervals, so it isn't quite the same.

it could be easy to script something similiar for Linux shares, but it really isn't much more useful than a good tape backup.

Re:Legacy users only? (5, Informative)

fritz1968 (569074) | about 11 years ago | (#6284227)

Is there any reason for anyone to consider using it...

Here are a few reasons:

With ZenWorks, you can lock down a users' W2K or XP workstation, deploy/install applications and printers without leaving your desk and remote control their PC if they are having a problem (technical support).

With groupwise, you have all the functionality of any other Enterprise level Email system. With the security of GroupWise, you have less worries with some of the Virus' that can plague many of the MS Email systems.

The Directory Services of Novell is far superiour of any other company's, mostly because it is more mature (going on what... 9, 10 years now?). Novell's eDirectory can handle about a billion objects in the Tree. Maybe more now, I am not sure

Of course, Novell NetWare runs pure IP or a mixed IPX/IP environment if you want. Since 5.0, NetWare has had IP natively.

Hooray, Linux for huge networks (2, Interesting)

Adam Rightmann (609216) | about 11 years ago | (#6283862)

I've always been a fan on Novell. I cut my teeth on Netware 3.12, and was always impressed with it's stability (plus, it's lack of virii, ever hear of a Novell virus).

Once you got to Novell 4 and 5, you were able to manipulate very large scale networks, with thousands of users, something MS barely does (one PDC?) and Linux not at all. It makes me laugh when Linux Zealots talk about replacing corporate networks with Linux servers, and the largest network they've administered is 3 Pentiums and a Pentium II for playing Doom.

Yeap, one big step for more Linux in real, corporate networks.

enterprise (5, Funny)

Graspee_Leemoor (302316) | about 11 years ago | (#6283876)

"that runs on the Red Hat Enterprise Linux and SuSE Linux Enterprise Server distributions"

Kids! Never trust any product with Enterprise in the title unless it comes with batteries and has a light up deflector array and real torpedo and phaser sounds.

On a similar note, if a website ever uses the acronym "SME" even semi-seriously then you should avoid that assiduously too.

graspee

Fire Phasers in Novell. (4, Funny)

Nick Driver (238034) | about 11 years ago | (#6284242)

Re:Fire Phasers in Novell. (2, Funny)

Phil the Canuck (208725) | about 11 years ago | (#6284324)

Ah, that takes me back. The joy of rigging someone's login script with an infinite loop of phasers...

Re:Fire Phasers in Novell. (1)

hpavc (129350) | about 11 years ago | (#6284536)

does anyone know where i can get a copy of these wonderful phasers sound files of old ... wow ... memories

Re:Fire Phasers in Novell. (1)

Phil the Canuck (208725) | about 11 years ago | (#6284598)

The good old phasers sound (midi?) has been replaced by phasers.wav, which can be found on your friendly neighborhood NetWare server in /public/client/win95/ibm_enu.

Re:Fire Phasers in Novell. (1)

hpavc (129350) | about 11 years ago | (#6284660)

yeah, sadly i dont have access to one anymore.

another link of interest (5, Interesting)

stonebeat.org (562495) | about 11 years ago | (#6283882)

http://forge.novell.com/modules/news/ [novell.com] a SourceForge repository of Open Source stuff for Novell. RSYNC, Apache, bash, gcc etc.....

Accessing Novell apps in Linux? (1)

nick_drake (679204) | about 11 years ago | (#6284112)

I work in a university environment that uses Novell applications for logging on to our intranet. Does anyone here know how (or if it's possible) to access the university's network (for GroupWise and/or printing) within a Linux OS? (I don't want to ask our tech department, as I'm afraid they might not like me installing Linux on my machine.)

Re:Accessing Novell apps in Linux? (1)

Phil the Canuck (208725) | about 11 years ago | (#6284459)

Depends. There won't be a "real" GroupWise client for Linux until later this year. Depending on how they've configured GroupWise, you may be able to access it via a standard POP client.

As for printing, NDPS supports LPR, and setting it up is trivial. Whether or not your admins have checked that particular box, well, good luck.

Re:Accessing Novell apps in Linux? (1)

stonebeat.org (562495) | about 11 years ago | (#6284471)

if you have NDPS environment, you can use IPP printing to print to a Novell Printer.

Kind of makes you wonder .... (3, Interesting)

icewalker (462991) | about 11 years ago | (#6283884)

I mean, just a couple of weeks ago, Novell was trying to put SCO off of Linux by claiming ownership of key UNIX Copyrights. With this announcement just made - I would think they were trying to keep SCO at bay so that they could come out with this new product announcement and not have a certain amount of uncertainty about it from the Industry. After all, they have been developing this software for years ... yes years! There's a lot of money tied up in this.

It all makes a little more sense now. I'm glad they finally embraced their services on Linux though. I always like the Novell File Services!

More distros please (4, Funny)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 11 years ago | (#6283888)

integrated package that runs on the Red Hat Enterprise Linux and SuSE Linux Enterprise Server distributions

I can't wait to see a version of Novell's package for OpenLinux, or even UnixWare+LKP ...

Why Enterprise editions of Linux? (2, Interesting)

einer (459199) | about 11 years ago | (#6283903)

Will this run on a 'consumer level' version of RedHat? If not, why not?

Re:Why Enterprise editions of Linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6284363)

A lot of the authentication stuff we use works with versions of Redhat not officially supported and also with Mandrake. They just don't want to (or can't) support everything. Whether the attitude is right or wrong I can't say. Of course most of the NDS auth stuff can also just be done through standard pam/ldap anyway...

How much will we pay for convenience? (5, Insightful)

bytes256 (519140) | about 11 years ago | (#6283906)

The problem is, this ain't gonna be cheap, especially if you buy one of the enterprise Linux's mentioned. Novell's got to make it extremely convenient for their existing sysadmins and Linux/UNIX sysadmin's too. Unless Novell does something miraculous, both groups will need to be retrained for this product. Novell admins will have to learn Linux and Linux admins will have to learn Novell. The Linux admins are going to scream why should I learn Novell when i can use NFS/NIS/LPD or Samba and Novell admins are going to scream why should I learn Linux when i can just use Netware. Sounds great, but they're gonna need to overcome one of their traditional weeknesses - MARKETING!

Re:How much will we pay for convenience? (1)

spotteddog (234814) | about 11 years ago | (#6284155)

wOOt - I might find a job now since I know *both*

About time (5, Insightful)

Dark Paladin (116525) | about 11 years ago | (#6283931)

I can't see this as being anything as a "good thing".

Used to be, the reason why you bought Netware was to do thse these things:

1. File Server.
2. Print Server.
3. Administration of 1 and 2.

For a long time, Novell had the best of 1 and 2 - and with their directory services, they weren't matched. I loved using Novell's admin tools. They were usually easy enough to get in and do what you want, and powerful enough to do all sorts of other things. You could set up rights, trickle them down or stop trickling, take care of email stuff - right there in one nice interface. Sure, it wasn't perfect - but compared to the compeition....

The problem came with Linux, and people realized "Hm - do I need to spend this much for a file/print server?" They web server offerings in my humble opinion stank, and I never really liked Groupwise that much. It could do a lot of cool things, but other simple things that I would have expected were beyond it's grasp.

So I see this as a Very Good Thing for Novell. In a way, they can be like Apple, only for the Server world on Linux. Apple's OS X's strength is that you can do all the cool Unix stuff you want - without having to do anything Unix-y to get it to work. You can crawl under the hood if you like or just sit at the dashboard.

I'm browsing through the Novell offering, and here's what I'm hoping for:

1. A kick-ass admin tool like thier old NWAdmin.exe tool. Start making plugins for things like Sendmail, Postfix, Apache - whatever. Go ahead and charge for the plugins so we can just sit back and go "click, click, click" and get stuff done rather that going "Hey - what was the setting in Apache for turning on directory indexing!" (Yes, I know what it is, thank you, move on.) Sure - there's stuff like Webmin that can do this, but Novell's Admin tool was still (IMHO) cooler. And with drag and drop, the directory style layout, and being able to click on a user and get all info right there would be most excellent.

Make it Java based so I don't have to run it off of Windows. (What the hell was up with that, anyway? I could never figure out why Novell couldn't make an Admin tool for their servers that didn't run on Windows - granted, the last Novell I really used was Netware 5, so don't sue me if things have changed.)

2. You can have multiple Linux servers out there, and instead of trying to figure out your LDAP settings and that, just install the software, start the admin, and say "These Directory users have these rights on this box on this directory" - click, click, click - you're done, have a nice day. This was something promised with eDirectory, but I'd like to see it really hardcore delivered.

With this, merge the strength of Linux's "no license fee" with Novell's admin/directory tools. I want to have a server I can throw 5, 500, 50000 users on and not worry about licensing - and I just pay Novell for the user interface and tools. I can even see paying Novell like their mass server license - I pay for how many concurrent users I have on the system, unlimited servers. (So, for example, I can have 500 servers out there, and if I only need a 5 user license, I just pay Novell once for 5 users to administrate the boxes.)

I think if Novell plays their cards right and goes for the "administrate, authenticate, and authorize" bit for Linux services, they can work with Linux to make a lot of money, and make Linux so Admin Friendly as to keep pushing that other desktop/server OS [microsoft.com] out of the market.

Of course, I could be wrong. But... isn't it nice to dream....

Re:About time (2, Interesting)

PaulBeelee (680895) | about 11 years ago | (#6284153)

I work with Novell stuff ALOT, and I find that Linux zealots (of which I am one) often have no idea what it is Novell brings to the "enterprise". Regarding your points, NetWare 5.x came with a JAVA tool called ConsoleOne which can be used to administer the "Tree". Novell has continued to push everything in that direction, and rely less on NWadmin. BTW, NetWare 5 was out in '98 or '99. Last year I loaded up ConsoleOne on a Redhat box at work and was able to admin my Tree. That was huge. I then went to google and sourceforge and started scanning the web for a NetWare client, that could use IP and not IPX (since with NetWare 5 Novell went to a native IP stack, no longer needed IPX). Saddly I found nothing good at all. I haven't looked since, I hope there is something out now so that I can log into an NDS tree from a Linux workstation. Further, I tried setting up a NetWare volume on that Linux box, that was not even close to working. So, if they have solved the Linux as a workstation, and Linux as a server in the NDS Tree issues, I will bounce off the wall with joy. One last point, Novell is still HUGE in some areas, law firms, some government agencies, etc. Embracing Linux gives Novell a continued upgrade path and future, which was becoming harder and harder to justify as Novell lost more and more mindshare. So this is a huge move for Novell's survival.

Re:About time (4, Funny)

sphealey (2855) | about 11 years ago | (#6284390)

I work with Novell stuff ALOT, and I find that Linux zealots (of which I am one) often have no idea what it is Novell brings to the "enterprise".
Agreed. There seems to be a sub-optimal level of understanding in the Linux world concerning enterprise directory and management requirements. I think it is telling that many large enterprises which have gone 98% Microsoft for desktops and servers have retained NDS as their directory management system. It is a tool which is not easily replaced, and implemented well on Linux it could prove a key element in enterprise deployment.

sPh

Re:About time (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6284445)

Hi,

Rest assured, all that you want is there. With Novell Account Management and eDirectory you really have this "click click click" and that user has the correct access rights across all your servers and workstations.

Using Novell iManager, you have a tool to manage everything that Novell offers you. It is based on SOAP so nothing prevents you from scripting it with Perl::SOAP

Way to go Novell !

Re:About time (2, Interesting)

llamalicious (448215) | about 11 years ago | (#6284187)

You're on to something DP

NWAdmin's tool was so powerful, we migrated all of our SAM-based NT domains 4.0 to NDS for NT 2.0 on Novell 4.x in as OU's in the primary tree. (No small task, this was at the number 1 largest air conditioning company in the world no less.)

Nothing better than having a single interface to manage all your organizations accounts and permissions, especially NWAdmin.

Now, apply that to linux/*nix services across the board, and you've got a winner. Albeit a most likely expensive, commercial winner...

In other news (3, Funny)

carm$y$ (532675) | about 11 years ago | (#6283939)

Novell customers reacted positively to the news that they would have the choice of running Novellâ(TM)s network services on Linux or NetWare or both

In other news, IBM announced they'll give their customers the chance to run OS/2 on AS/600.

Novell already relies on Linux (2, Interesting)

select * from (593191) | about 11 years ago | (#6283956)

This is cool news, and definitely a step in the right direction. Their ZENworks package already relies on Linux to support workstation imaging. You can create boot disks/CDs to install the support partition on the client PC for imaging operations. Parts of ZENworks are written in Java (actually runs under a virtual machine on the Netware box), so moving them to Linux would probably be fairly trivial as well. Looks like they made a couple good choices back then that will pay off in the future.

How about reading the white pages?? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6283964)

From Apple's posted white pages on the performance comparison results:
VeriTest, an independent testing service, conducted the tests according to the specifications on the SPEC website. SPEC provides the benchmarks as source code, which VeriTest compiled with GCC, a cross-platform, open source compiler used by programmers around the world. The Power Mac G5 used Mac OS X v10.2.7 (G5), and the Intel-based systems used Red Hat Linux 9.0.
Tests were conducted by an independent service. WTF is the problem besides selective reporting of real results???

support (1, Interesting)

meshko (413657) | about 11 years ago | (#6284008)

I can't say I'm a big fan of Novell's support, but I'm somewhat impressed with parts of their products. They, I think, make more sense in enterprise than Windows-based solutions and this new direction will also help Linux a lot because Linux really doesn't have much to offer in the area of enterprise organization (I don't think pure LDAP solutions are powerful enough, but I might be wrong).
This will also mean more products on Linux as a lot of companies which already support NetWare will have to move in Linux direction.

Re:support (1)

nick_urbanik (534101) | about 11 years ago | (#6284223)

(I don't think pure LDAP solutions are powerful enough, but I might be wrong).

We use OpenLDAP with RH 7.3 running on a dual P-III to support computer accounts for our 1000+ student accounts, and the same machine shares out the home directories, as well as being the DHCP, DNS and web server, and it seems reasonable to me, though I want to up the horsepower a bit.

Re:support (1)

meshko (413657) | about 11 years ago | (#6284345)

Yes, my school has a similar setup and LDAP solutions work great for a simple university environment. When I'm talking about enterprise I mean an enterprise structure on three continents where you want to keep the distributed network synchronized, replicated etc. Novell does that reasonably well.

Why Companies Support Linux (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6284103)

When you think about it for a moment, companies more than likely don't support Linux because it's technically superior to what's out there or costs less. Beleive it or not, it's true.

Why does IBM support Linux? So they can sell more consulting, hardware and software, their bread and butter. How about Dell? More hardware, more choices of consumer OS. How about HP? Same as IBM. What about Oracle, Veritas, WebLogic and Novell? To sell more of their software.

I'm not saying Linux is the best solution for every need, but I'm not saying it's the worst either. Just keep in mind when you see companies cheering on Linux it may not be because it's Linux, but because it can provide more revenue for the company's products that produce the majority (or all) of their revenue.

Who cares! (3, Interesting)

Ridgelift (228977) | about 11 years ago | (#6284236)

Who cares! Linux doesn't need Novell, or Microsoft for that matter.

I earned my Novell CNE (Certified NetWare Engineer) back in 1996, and since then watched Microsoft's Windows NT steadily eat away their market share. Novell succeeded back in the 80's and early 90's because they filled a need. It didn't matter that their support was bad or their marketing non-existent, because at one time NetWare was the only game in town. But they lost their market share to Microsoft because they did not improve their support or their marketing.

But times have changed. Microsoft may be the leader now, and although they do a good job of marketing, their support is awful, mostly because their products are bloated piles of spagetti code. I ditched working with NetWare because I can do everything and more with NT, and then I ditched NT because I can do everything and more with Linux and can support it or make changes without things blowing up. Linux will never have the marketing that Microsoft has, but it doesn't need it because word of mouth and an ever improving product is the best form of advertising.

Sorry Novell. Sorry Microsoft. You treated guys like me who paid thousands of dollars for your certifications like crap for years, so we left and decided to write our own. Linux doesn't need Novell or Microsoft to succeed in the long run. Anyone who says different hasn't worked in the industry long enough.

Re:Who cares! (1)

Ath (643782) | about 11 years ago | (#6284474)

You need to see a doctor to have that chip removed from your shoulder. Anyone who suggests that Novell's products and services can be replaced by Windows or Linux is clearly just inexperienced or unwilling to accept alternatives. Tell me what product competes with ZENworks for client management? Tell me what product competes with Netware's file management? Tell me what product competes with NDPS for printer management? Tell me what competes with eDirectory for user authentication, identification and authorization? Speaking of eDirectory, if you only see eDirectory as a user or network management tool, you should try opening your eyes. Do you think Yahoo uses eDirectory for that purpose? No, they use it to know who you are and what kind of content you both want and should get. None of that even speaks to eDirectory's robustness with partitions and replicas. Too many people stopped looking at Novell because they saw it as the "old stuff" and boring. But it's not. It's really downright cool. ZENworks itself makes application distribution fun.

Re:Who cares! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6284480)

Microsoft may be the leader now, and although they do a good job of marketing, their support is awful, mostly because their products are bloated piles of spagetti code.

You don't know that. There are plenty of reasons to dislike MS without becoming just as bad as them by making stuff up.

ditched NT because I can do everything and more with Linux and can support it or make changes without things blowing up.

Only to the easy stuff, I'll bet.

we left and decided to write our own.

"We"? You didn't have anything to do with it.

Question (2, Interesting)

Total_Wimp (564548) | about 11 years ago | (#6284271)

When Apple becomes Unix and Novell becomes Unix should we really be referring to them as "competing OSes" anymore?

If all I'm doing is providing body panels and upholstery I'm not going to be calling myself an auto manufacturer.

TW

Novell supporting Linux.. (2, Interesting)

xchino (591175) | about 11 years ago | (#6284300)

It seems that Novell is really and truly dedicated to the OSS community. I didn't know until I looked at their page, but Novell is offering a Linux certification, the CLE (Certified Linux Engineer) apparently somewhat equivalent to the LPI cert (at least that's what they recommend for studying), but also including Novell Nterprise services for Linux.

This has got to be the smartest marketing Novelll has ever done. (Any of you familiar with Novell know how absolutely BAD they are at marketing). I actually have a renewed interest in Novell products, and I may just dust off my CNE cert and hang it on my wall proudly, rather than hiding it at the bottom of my underwear drawer where no man but me dares tread. A CNE and a CLE might look nice together on a resume.

People Still Use Novell? (-1, Flamebait)

Dolemite_the_Wiz (618862) | about 11 years ago | (#6284336)

Ummmm...Ok.

Dolemite
_________________

Re:People Still Use Novell? (4, Informative)

Ath (643782) | about 11 years ago | (#6284617)

No, but they use Netware, eDirectory, ZENworks, Portal and many other products that the company Novell sells.

Does anyone wonder how personal biases get introduced into business decisions? Maybe when people decide to completely disregard all products from a company for no reason other than their ignorance of those products.

Just to prove it, go look at the capabilities of the DirXML product from Novell. Then I can explain how our HR department processes a new hire and DirXML automatically creates the network account, portal account, email account and gives access to all appropriate backend systems seamlessly. And then it keeps everything in sync.

F*****g Late (0)

Delifisek (190943) | about 11 years ago | (#6284352)

Arrrhhhh. It have to around in 1998 or 1999. God damnit its late.

And if Novell successfully migrate nds with oss services there is so much hope for both novell and linux.

cool (2, Interesting)

oohp (657224) | about 11 years ago | (#6284437)

Hey, Novell had the most fine-grained access control and nicest directory services implementation. Don't know if that's still the case with Active Directory around, but I'd really use Novell on Linux to do file and print services for Windoze boxes rather than Windows 2000 or 2003. I've also heard it scales very well. It came a bit late but it's still a great thing. With SCO spreading FUD around, the timing of this release proves that Novell trusts the Linux platform, so their release may add a plus of credibility as well.

groupwise (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6284519)

I hope my school updates netware services to linux base asap, currently the novell services work every second day if you're lucky

debian advocacy (3, Interesting)

oohp (657224) | about 11 years ago | (#6284553)

There is a poll on the page with "what Linux distribution do you use". Debian got a lot of votes (more than SuSE). As RedHat and SuSE Enterprise Server software doesn't come cheap, I suggest that people who like Debian should go vote. Maybe Novell will support Debian as well. Think about it -- the platform OS will come at zero cost.

Novell? (-1, Flamebait)

r_j_prahad (309298) | about 11 years ago | (#6284634)

Are those guys still around?

And modding me redundant says a lot more about Novell's current situation than any comment I could make here.
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