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Pioneer To Release TiVo/DVD Burner Combo

simoniker posted more than 11 years ago | from the geek-toys-get-cooler dept.

Television 252

TK-421 writes "According to an official Pioneer press release, 'Pioneer is revolutionizing home video recording with the introduction of the world's first DVD recorders featuring the TiVo service. These new recorders offer consumers the control provided by the easy-to-use TiVo service integrated with advanced DVD recording for the option of short-term storage on a hard drive or long-term archival of broadcast programming on DVD-R/RW discs.'" The options include both 80 and 120GB models, starting at a not-inexpensive $1199, and there's more information via a CNET News article.

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IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6300903)

NEWS BULLETIN - Cupertino, CA

Rumors came to an end today. In a press conference, Steve Jobs announced the new Apple user input/output device. The device, called COCK®, is a radical shift in human interaction devices. COCK®'s enhanced as it also contains feedback support.

Basically COCK® looks like a shaft with two balls at the end. A user places the shaft into their mouth and keeps the balls pointed towards the monitor. There are sensors on the balls that track the motion of the COCK® in relation to the monitor. The user must look at the area on the screen to move the mouse. Thrusting of the shaft results in click actions. Additional functions may be provided by mapping licking and coddling the balls.

Since the device is used by one's mouth, bio-metric security can easily be used on OS X. COCK® has a built sampling device which can match saliva to specific users on the computer. As such, the user will have access based on their spit.

Feedback exists in several forms. First the shaft may increase in size to better fit the user's mouth. This usually takes a couple of minutes. There is also the ability to give the user a slight shock given error conditions on the computer. Additionally, in severe error states, a milky substance will be emitted from the COCK® to signify an error condition to the user.

Questions at the press release signified mixed opinions on COCK®. There seems to be resistance to using such a device in the non-Macintosh community. Steve Jobs acknowledged this problem. As such, the current mice will still be available when purchasing Macintoshes. Currently Apple is marketing towards current users of their platform. "Product testing showed us that long-term Mac users were most willing to use COCK," Jobs stated.

Despite resistance, Apple does not feel it will hurt their sales, only increase them. Jobs said "We at Apple hope that COCK will be as important as our switch to G3 based computers. As such, our marketing staff are fully committed to convincing every one that COCK is the best."

Now that Steve Jobs released COCK® onto the world, he hopes sales will increase steadily. One mac fan stated "COCK is the best IO device in the world. Even the milky error substance tastes great!" Apple's stock has not significantly dropped or risen. However, Apple's online store estimates that sales of COCK® will rise in the next two weeks.

what the hell ? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6300904)

is a simoniker [goatse.cx] ???

Re:what the hell ? (-1, Offtopic)

evilviper (135110) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300967)

echo "127.0.0.1 goatse.cx" >> /etc/hosts

How long till... (4, Insightful)

Basje (26968) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300907)

... someone sues them for copyright infringement. The voting boot is open.
But please be quick: you can only vote while no litigation has been announced.

Re:How long till... (1, Funny)

pe1rxq (141710) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300918)

I hereby announce that there will be litigation... ....Voting boot closed!!!!

Jeroen

hm (5, Funny)

Frac (27516) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300910)

The options include both 80 and 120GB models, starting at a not-inexpensive $1199, and there's more information via a CNET News article.

not-inexpensive? I know slashdot editors aim for obscurity, but what's wrong with "expensive"?

Re:hm (2, Funny)

tankdilla (652987) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300919)

not-inexpensive = not-in-unaffordable, and for now not-unimpractical to even consider using just to record TV shows.

Hello? What planet are you on? (1)

WIAKywbfatw (307557) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300998)

not-inexpensive = not-in-unaffordable, and for now not-unimpractical to even consider using just to record TV shows.

"not-in-unaffordable"? " not-unimpractical"?

Wow, I bet your English teacher loved you. :)

Re:Hello? What planet are you on? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6301029)

Wow, I bet your English teacher loved you.

Ssh! We don't want to get her fired now. Do we?

Re:Hello? What planet are you on? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6301046)

It may not sound clear, but it is sound.

Re:hm (2, Funny)

Thing 1 (178996) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301135)

Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Re:hm (5, Funny)

Akai (11434) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300926)

expensive is a term no longer allowed to describe home electronics.

It is the Ministry of Advertising's feeling that all products should be described in various degress of inexpensive for their price range:
inexpensive
almost inexpensive
barely inexpensive
not inexpensive
nowhere near inexpensive

Re:hm (1)

follower-fillet (140975) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301051)

I'm sure high-speed inexpensive and full-speed inexpensive fit in there too...

Re:hm (2, Funny)

TeknoHog (164938) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301547)

double-plus-uninexpensive!

Re:hm (1)

Talez (468021) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300940)

Double negatives as emphatic?

That is sooooo 1598.

Re:hm (0)

kubrick (27291) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301156)

Doubleplusungood, even.

Re:hm (4, Insightful)

drix (4602) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300964)

Pull your head out of your grammatical ass, it captures a subtle shade of meaning that "expensive" doesn't. The rules they taught you in 7th grade english are breakable, sometimes to great effect.

Re:hm (5, Funny)

more fool you (549433) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300996)

you should be modded not-uninsightful

Re:hm (3, Funny)

hplasm (576983) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301023)

The rules they taught you in 7th grade english are breakable, sometimes to great effect.

Should that not read: "The rules they taught you in 7th grade english are not unbreakable, sometimes to great effect." ?

Re:hm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6301133)

Actually thats a very good example. I prefer your version far more, in fact.

Misunderstatement? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6301025)

Maybe "not-inexpensive" is another sample of George W. Bush's new style of the english language (aka. a Bushism). I've heard some of the new words so many times now that when I think of the word no more "Invalid Grammer" exceptions are thrown in my brain! Once, I almost used a Bushism in a sentence! Fortunately, I caught myself before I said anything.

Here's a sample from this [about.com] website.

'They misunderestimated me.'

'Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?'

'Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream.'

Today's word is "litotes" (5, Informative)

Daemonic (575884) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301243)

Understatement by negating the contrary.

It's not uncommon.

Re:hm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6301453)

I recently read a comment not unlike yours. In that article, the writer had no small difficulty distinguishing the double negative inherent in the word "irregardless."

A perfectly legitimate construction like "not inexpensive" falls under the categories of rhetoric and style. Rhetoric you can look up a dictionary, but I will point out that writing styles regularly take on many forms, from the poetic to the diplomatic and can be classified into any number of subcategories such as the legal and technical, all of which have guidelines or rules. Most often, writing styles are coloured by things such as personal preferences and cultural backgrounds. For example, Americans generally tend to write and speak plainly. By doing so they offer an appearance of honesty and forcefulness, but run the risk of sounding crude or even offensive, whereas the the average Brit is still taught to use passive voice, subjunctive tense and constructions that sound diplomatic to most ears, but overly-subtle to others. The reviewer chose "not inexpensive" because it simply sounded better (read "diplomatic" or "less critical" to the manufacturer).

To each his own, of course, but style can be one of those things that you either have or you don't. And subtlety, well, maybe that's over your head.

GNU toolchain (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6300911)

RMS: Hi! Your program 'bash' is pretty good. How would you like to be the official shell of the GNU system.

bash guy: Um, well, ok, why not?

RMS (to the world): bash is part of the GNU toolchain. GNU is the best. Everything is GNU. GNU includes 1000 software packages. Without GNU you wouldn't exist.

whatever (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6300913)

why the hell would you want to record "broadcast"?. go read a book, or tell your kids you love 'em. throw the boob tube out the window. TV is for retards.

And, before the "I can make a tivo" people post... (3, Insightful)

Moderation abuser (184013) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300921)

No, you can't. I've seen the systems and they are pathetic in comparison to a £200 tivo.

It's like buying a replica ferrari, it may look like a good idea but it doesn't have the performance.

Re:And, before the "I can make a tivo" people post (2, Interesting)

Marlor (643698) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300959)

I've seen the systems and they are pathetic in comparison to a £200 tivo. It's like buying a replica ferrari, it may look like a good idea but it doesn't have the performance.

Well, Tivos are not available in all countries, so systems like MythTV provide at least a subset of the functionality of a Tivo, which is better than nothing at all.

Personally, I'm fairly happy with MythTV. It is certainly much more convenient than a VCR for recording (just select the show from the EPG), and the ability to pause live is a great bonus as well.

When Tivos are released in Australia, I will ceratinly consider getting one. But until then, MythTV is good enough for me.

Re:And, before the "I can make a tivo" people post (1, Funny)

evilviper (135110) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300961)

That's just not true... Tivo is practically just regular PC hardware.

All that is needed is much better _software_, and we should all know that can be done.

Re:And, before the "I can make a tivo" people post (1)

mbourgon (186257) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301220)

Tivo is practically just regular PC hardware.

Yeah, except for the $200-300 specialty MPEG encoder. And yes, I know what's involved in a Mythtv box - for a dual tuner model, right now, it takes at least a 2000+ processor. And while it'll all get cheaper (and Isaac gets the hardware encoders working), so will this thing. I have a Panasonic DMR-HS2, and I absolutely love the thing. Provided this thing has a good implementation of the TiVo service, that is...

Re:And, before the "I can make a tivo" people post (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6301378)

You mean encoder like this [hauppauge.com] one ($149, includes TV tuner)?

Re:And, before the "I can make a tivo" people post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6300983)

Well, although this is a good step towards a proper convergance box, I want one with:

* DVD / CD burner
* XviD playback
* DVD -> XviD one-touch copying
* DVB tuner (DVB-T for me in the UK)
* OGG playback
* ACCURATE program schedule with PDC support.
* silent operation!

..and I suspect the second and third items there are not going to come from a commercial developer!

My only option is to build my own!!

Re:And, before the "I can make a tivo" people post (1)

dago (25724) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300991)

I know you're trolling, but

Just quickly :
- there are no tivo available in countries other than US and UK (canada ?).

- and the other PVR are currently at prices more in the 1000â range.

Maybe for people technically savvy enough to build their own PVR with some customized software,

- they don't need the ease of use of tivo
- they don't want to buy features and prefer instead more customized/eable solutions

I was also thinking that, but fed up of waiting for it and now that my mythtv system is build, guess I'll probably never buy a tivo.

Re:And, before the "I can make a tivo" people post (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6300995)

We have TiVo here in France.

Bonjour!

Re:And, before the "I can make a tivo" people post (0, Funny)

Botchka (589180) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301165)

I surrender....

Re:And, before the "I can make a tivo" people post (2, Informative)

csteinle (68146) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301018)

- there are no tivo available in countries other than US and UK (canada ?).


And since Thomson stopped making them a while back, there's no TiVos available in the UK, either (unless you want to trawl eBay and pay over the odds).

Re:And, before the "I can make a tivo" people post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6301346)

So what you're saying is that the two nations on the Earth who can get TiVo are the 'Cheese eating surrender monkies' and the 'Burger Munching war mongerers'

Does they both work to cancel each other out, thus there is no TiVo?

Re:And, before the "I can make a tivo" people post (2, Informative)

Mantrid (250133) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301159)

No point in Canada last I looked - you just can't get the listings. Never seen a Tivo for sale here.

Bell Expressvu (Satellite company), offers a receiver with an integrated PVR which works very well (it'll even allow you to tape PPV stuff), 30 hour HDD, 1 hour buffer....I've been happy with it, although I think Tivo's have more bells and whistles.

Re:And, before the "I can make a tivo" people post (2, Informative)

The Wicked Priest (632846) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301185)

The standard Tivo (though not the unit talked about here) is a good value for the money. It would be hard or impossible to build a similar system for the same price. However, when you build your own system, you can go beyond what a Tivo can do. For example, HDTV -- I can pop an HDTV card in my computer and record; Tivo has no models with HDTV capability, though there may be one offered later this year. Plus, with a home-built, you can skip the monthly fee.

I think the only truly unique capability in a Tivo is the ability to record a DirecTV signal without reencoding. But that only applies to the DirecTivo models, which can't record anything BUT DirecTV.

Will it rely on DRM? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6300923)

If yes, I'm not buying 'cos after some time, they'll start broadcasting DRMd streams!

That's like.. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6300929)

comparing a Ferrari to a Jaguar. Or isn't it?

Everything comes up short... (4, Insightful)

evilviper (135110) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300935)

Why can't anyone make what consumers want?

Tivo would be great if it didn't require on-going charges (and doesn't allow anyone to screw around with the installed software).

Throwing a DVD burner into the mix is a great step-up, but only if there is some way to edit the program before burning it... I don't want to have a copy for 50 years on DVD that starts with the end of the program before it, has commercial breaks in the middle, etc. It wouldn't take much work to give editing functionality (even if edited content must be burned to DVD and can't be watched from the hard drive, I can live with that.)

So, when are we going to see some such system? Or are we going to have to wait until someone releases a distro that does all this on PC hardware?

In a word... (1)

WIAKywbfatw (307557) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301005)

Or are we going to have to wait until someone releases a distro that does all this on PC hardware?

Yes.

Re:Everything comes up short... (5, Insightful)

Babbster (107076) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301038)

Throwing a DVD burner into the mix is a great step-up, but only if there is some way to edit the program before burning it... I don't want to have a copy for 50 years on DVD that starts with the end of the program before it, has commercial breaks in the middle, etc. It wouldn't take much work to give editing functionality (even if edited content must be burned to DVD and can't be watched from the hard drive, I can live with that.)

Part of the reason that PVRs like Tivo and ReplayTV still exist (though Replay has been sued, encouraging them to remove some features) is that they DON'T edit the originally broadcasted content. Providing easy-to-use editing features in a box like this - particularly in reference to commercials - will ensure litigation and will make it more likely that said litigation will be successful.

This is of even greater concern to content producers since more and more television shows are being released in pre-recorded DVD sets and being able to easily make commercial-free DVDs of TV shows at home would cut into that market.

Re:Everything comes up short... (1)

evilviper (135110) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301160)

Okay, so since ReplayTV has been sued anyhow, why not give the finger to the studios, and include the features they don't want?

Ahhh, sweet revenge...

will ensure litigation and will make it more likely that said litigation will be successful.

Even with the current hardware, litigation is almost ensured. I sincerely doubt that it will be sucessful, but even if it is, it will only lead to Tivo/Replay being forced to remove those features that are deemed illegial. You might as well say Betamax/VHS maker shouldn't have allowed consumers to record, because of risks of litigation. The risk of litigation is always there, no matter what you do.

Re:Everything comes up short... (5, Informative)

Pedersen (46721) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301125)

You wanna burn to DVD? Here ya go:
  • MythTV [mythtv.org] , also used to edit commercials out of the recording
  • MythMkMovie [icelus.org] , used to make DivX files

After that, burn to DVD to your heart's content. Oh, and MythMkMovie is getting ready for the 1.0 release finally (within the next two weeks it looks like).

Re:Everything comes up short... (1)

evilviper (135110) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301166)

These stories have wonderful timing...

Check out my post on the previous story: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=68945&cid=6300 917

Ironically, that is only the most recent difficulty I've experienced with getting Linux to act as a multimedia box... Before I bough the brooktree card, I had bought an ATI All-in-Wonder that I spent weeks trying to get working, but gave up because of the poor quality of Gatos drivers and software. It's really unfortunate... I just can't seem to win, no matter what I do.

Everyone has me to thank for this.... (5, Funny)

jaylen (59655) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300937)

... since if I had not just bought a Tivo last week, and a DVD recorder the month before, this would never have happened.

*sobs*

_____
Jaylen

Re:Everyone has me to thank for this.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6300958)

someone had to do it or tivo-dvd innovation would've never advanced any further.

Re:Everyone has me to thank for this.... (2, Funny)

cyroth (103888) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301107)

Damn that Murphy

What? No built-in Wi-Fi? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6300942)

Because I want to be able to packet sniff my neighbor's porn.

Here is some other model like this one... (4, Informative)

SCiPS (672691) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300943)

But more powerfull ... and older... The first is already known by a lot of people fujitsu-siemens Activy [fujitsu-siemens.com] and work under XP embbed.
The second is less known and the site is not in english but it works really well. Dreambox [dreambox.li] and run under Linux !

Why is Tivo still a set top box? (2, Interesting)

91degrees (207121) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300948)

I'd have thought that by now people would have started building the thing into the actual sets. It somehow seems more logical to do it that way than combine it with a DVD player.

Re:Why is Tivo still a set top box? (5, Insightful)

Osty (16825) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301000)

I'd have thought that by now people would have started building the thing into the actual sets.

That's an easy one. People are far more likely to buy a $400 set top box than a $2000 TV. As well, people are more likely to agree to pay a subscription fee for a cheaper piece of hardware. If you put this into their TV set and then tell them they have to pay extra to get full functionality, they'll look at you funny and then call you an idiot if you think they're going to buy a $2000 TV that requires them to keep on paying. Finally, a STB is portable. If I want to have the Tivo in my bedroom on the small TV, but move it to the big TV in the entertainment room when I want to watch certain recorded shows, I can. If it's built into my TV in the entertainment room, I can't watch it in the bedroom, and vice versa (yeah, you can solve that with a networking solution, but then that requires another box, or another TV set with more built-in functionality, for more money).


Could TiVO partner with a TV manufacturer to build the functionality into a model line? Sure. Should they? Probably. Will they? Probably not.

Re:Why is Tivo still a set top box? (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301093)

Fair point about the subscription.

It should be possible to design something that doesn't require a subscription. Personally I'm getting a bit tired of everything being sold as a service. Don't you remember when you could buy products? The main trouble with TiVO is that most non-techies can't quite work out what it's supposed to do. They might find it easier to get their heads around pausable TV or maybe even something like "Memory TV (tm)".

Portability isn't a great problem for most people. I know I could never be bothered unplugging 5 or 6 cables and then lugging a Tivo to a different room. Maybe you want to, but I'm afraid you're in the minority. Besides, there will probably always be a second box solution for people who do want to be able to. What would be a benefit is that an integrated PVR would be a lot easier to set up. There would only be the usual TV connectors. No separate box, no separate power connector.

Re:Why is Tivo still a set top box? (-1, Troll)

hedge_death_shootout (681628) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301171)

That is a self evidently bloody awful idea. It's so bad I cant even be bothered explaining why.

Re:Why is Tivo still a set top box? (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301183)

Ah. I see your point. Next thing I'll be proposing a heavier than air flying machine.

Great idea.. if implemented right (4, Interesting)

Eric(b0mb)Dennis (629047) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300954)

This is a great idea, but it really depends on how well the implement the DVD burning from the harddrive.. This will need to have editing options to cut out commercials.. and that will bringe a whole wave of trouble onto the makers... replay TV fiasco, anyone? The real ticket would be fully editable shows, networking capability (at least 1394... that would be neat.. would encourage people to buy this instead of just a stand alone DVD recorder) Transfering all those babylon 5 SVCDs to this then burning them would be pretty sweet...

Re:Great idea.. if implemented right (3, Insightful)

Babbster (107076) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301056)

They don't "need" to have editing options to cut out commercials on the DVDs. VCRs have been quite successful for some time without them. Frankly, the only people THAT concerned about not having commercials on shows they save are the super geeks. Most people are perfectly content with the ability to fast (really fast in the case of PVR and DVD recordings) forward through them.

Heck, my mom has, through my good graces, had a PVR for quite some time and there are still times when she doesn't even bother skipping commercials...me, I get a crawling itch when I can't skip commercials but I'm one of the aforementioned "super geeks" - of course, I'm also lazy (too lazy to process shows through the computer and then burn them commercial-free) so I just buy DVD collections whenever possible.

MPAA? (4, Insightful)

FryGuy1013 (664126) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300956)

Didn't one of the PVR's remove a feature to share recordings between networked PVR's for fear of MPAA lawsuits? This isn't even restricted to the same kind of machines. Now you can record movies off of showtime/hbo automatically and burn them to dvd. I wonder what MPAA will do about this.

Now if they added commercial skipping and the ability to burn commercial skipped shows to dvd, that would be really pushing things. Hopefully my homebrew PVR box will have a DVD burner soon, and it will be able to do this.

Re:MPAA? (3, Insightful)

Babbster (107076) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301066)

The difference here is that each copy you give to someone will require buying a DVD-R/RW disc (making this more akin to VCR-style sharing which has already passed the court test) while the ReplayTV show-sharing option didn't require any physical intervention whatsoever and the only thing standing in the way of giving shows away to everyone who wanted them was Internet bandwidth. The ReplayTV show-sharing function was, for all intents and purposes, the same as Kazaa, Gnutella and all the other peer-to-peer PC file sharing programs - the peers were simply task-specific devices (PVRs) instead of general purpose devices (PCs)

Hmm (4, Insightful)

pokka (557695) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300968)

It sounds like a good idea, but most TiVo users who wanted to have more space or convert their collection to DVD have already figured out how to do so with minimal investment (TiVoNet, DVD-R, hard drive) -- much less than the price of this new TiVo.

Another reason I wouldn't buy one is that I know the HDTV-based [tivo.com] models are due out sometime in the near future, so investing $1,200 in something that will be obsolete in 1-2 years seems like a bad idea.

Still, it's nice for brand new users who have never owned a PVR and don't know how to use telnet.

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6300992)

Hmm, tivo/dvd-enabled hdtv. All for the price of a small car. Simpsons would be crystal clear and recorded for the ages.

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6301164)

so investing $1,200 in something that will be obsolete in 1-2 years seems like a bad idea.

Then you must never buy any products at all. Everything costing $1,200 or more is going to be obsolete within 1-2 years. That's the way the market works.

Have we really come that far? (3, Insightful)

thelandp (632129) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300969)

And after all that technology, is it really that much better than a VHS VCR?

The biggest difference my parents are aware of is they can't fast-forward the copyright warnings on DVDs...

Re:Have we really come that far? (3, Informative)

samael (12612) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301028)

I couldn't live without my Tivo.

I tell it what shows I like and then I watch it whenever I like. I have no idea what days most shows are even on any more. I just sit down and see that there's a new Futurama or Scrubs or whatever. I don't have to program it with times/dates and I don't have to worry (mostly) about shows moving timeslots every week - the built in episode guide worries about all of that for me.

Re:Have we really come that far? (1)

ottawanker (597020) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301060)

The Panasonic DMR-E80H [panasonic.com] is also coming out soon. It is a Progressive-Scan DVD Video Recorder with Built-in 80 GB Hard Disk & Time Slip Playback records to DVD-RAM and DVD-R discs.

These Panasonic units are nice. You can record and playback at the same time, so you can kind of time shift, like a tivo (they call it Chasing Playback). It's better than a VCR also because you can just hit record, and it will automatically find empty space for you, so you don't have to rewind/fast forward to find it manually.

Also, the DMR-E80H is only $799.95 MSRP.

The DMR-E50K [panasonic.com] is out now, but doesn't have the hard drive, and is $499.95.

TiVo for Radio Stations? (3, Interesting)

leoaugust (665240) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300975)

Just a thought ...

What would it take to have a TiVo-like service for radio stations, that could be programmed to record all songs by a certain artist, or from an album, or one DJ'd by someone ... (analogous to Kazaalite choice of Song, Album, and User)

Could we then burn these songs on a DVD or CD from there ....

Many radio stations could release the playlist in advance to help in the recordings (aka TV listings) and in addition to the Clear Channel (go to hell) stations there could be many many many (maybe millions like kazaalite, or thousands like iTunes) of radio broadcasters ... broadcasting all the songs all the time ...

just a thought ....

Radio limitations (2, Informative)

yuri (22724) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301037)

I believe there are limitations on what stations can do. This probably includes things like not posting a playlist in advance.

In australia I'm pretty sure it limits the number of songs from one artist (or is it album), you can play in a row. To stop people taping a whole album from radio etc.

Wha? you young folks these days... (1)

bad_fx (493443) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301088)

... TiVo for radio?? Pfeh! In my day sonny you had to sit next to the radio, tape loaded and ready, hand poised over the record button, just waiting for that one song....erm... twenty miles uphill both ways in six feet of snow with your bare feet wrapped in barbed wire for traction all the while listening to the likes of Bananarama, Wham! or Milli Vanilli... Arrrgh!

Re:TiVo for Radio Stations? (1)

borkus (179118) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301215)

This [thinkgeek.com] may be what you're looking for.

Actually, if you live near a good college radio station, one of these would be great. My old college station had an awesome old R&B show on Mondays from noon to 2pm along with a Reggae show from 2-5pm on Fridays. Of course, if you're not a college student and you work during the day, you miss the shows if you can't be near a radio.

Re:TiVo for Radio Stations? (1)

Lt Razak (631189) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301425)

You know, they make cheap PCI cards with FM/AM receivers on them. Software bundled, so you can record to wav/mp3.

Re:TiVo for Radio Stations? It would take this: (1)

samdu (114873) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301277)

Pogo Radio Your Way [techtv.com]

According to the review it's not there quite yet, but it's on the way.

Macrovision? (4, Interesting)

Henry Stern (30869) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300978)

Both units are equipped to transfer old videotapes to longer-lasting DVD-R or DVD-RW discs for more permanent storage. By connecting a VCR via analog inputs to the DVD recorder, transferring content becomes a snap. Unlike videotape, DVD will not degrade over time when exposed to heat and humidity. Transferring home movies from tape to disc will preserve them for future generations. DVD-R discs are best for archiving because they are write-once discs (like CD-R) and cannot be accidentally erased. Once a consumer has transferred their videotape collection to DVD, the VCR is obsolete.

I wonder what they're doing about Macrovision with this feature. It would hardly be an improvement to copy a VHS casette to a DVD if there were messed up colours and wavy lines.

Re:Macrovision? (5, Informative)

Osty (16825) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300986)

Unlike videotape, DVD will not degrade over time when exposed to heat and humidity.

But CDs and DVDs do degrade over time. Not in video quality, since that's all digital, but the storage medium itself has been known to rot (mostly CDs and laser discs, since DVDs really haven't been around long enough to see any noticeable deterioration). Sure, they last much longer than tape, and don't degrade with repeated viewings, but to say that they won't degrade at all is naive.


Are there any good long-term storage solutions? I'm talking on the order of decades, not years. Paper's done a pretty good job so far, but even that degrades, and it's a little hard to store digital information in an easily retrievable format on paper.

Re:Macrovision? (4, Funny)

Surak (18578) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301001)

Are there any good long-term storage solutions? I'm talking on the order of decades, not years. Paper's done a pretty good job so far, but even that degrades, and it's a little hard to store digital information in an easily retrievable format on paper.

You young whippersnappers! Obviously, you're not old enough to remember punched cards and paper tape! Stores for decades, easily retrievable!

Re:Macrovision? (1)

SpinyNorman (33776) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301535)

You young whippersnappers! Obviously, you're not old enough to remember punched cards and paper tape! Stores for decades, easily retrievable!

Actually, although weevils or damp may get to your paper tape, one of the serious contenders for long-term storage is mylar punched tape. If you want to send a time-capsule of earth-porn into space for the aliens then this would be the best bet. Not cheap in terms of per-bit storage, but the aliens will appreciate it.

Re:Macrovision? (3, Informative)

Espen (96293) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301032)

I wonder what they're doing about Macrovision with this feature. It would hardly be an improvement to copy a VHS casette to a DVD if there were messed up colours and wavy lines.

I doubt they do anything about Macrovision at all. Macrovision is applied to 'copy-protect' pre-recorded material which I suspect Tivo/panasonic have no interest in disabling with this feature. So, you will be fine with things you have recorded on tape yourself, but Macrovision will probably kick in with pre-recorded material. If you find it annoying, you should have thought about that when you handed over your cash for the copy protected tape in the first place!

SCO? (3, Funny)

GreatDrok (684119) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300982)

I don't see what this has to do with SCO. I read scodot.org for all the SCO news, not for some unrelated tosh about a piece of kit which is guaranteed to have the MPAA kicking your door down!

Re:SCO? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6301053)

---Latest SCO News---

SCO employees eat boogers

Re:SCO? (2, Funny)

WIAKywbfatw (307557) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301094)

I don't see what this has to do with SCO. I read scodot.org for all the SCO news, not for some unrelated tosh about a piece of kit which is guaranteed to have the MPAA kicking your door down!

Tivo runs on Linux (get your Tivo code here [tivo.com] ), so this is a SCO story after all.

Some people thought you were kidding but you know and I know that you were being deadly serious, right buddy?

Well, (1)

Bowdie (11884) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300989)

myself, I'd be happy with a built in (S)VCD maker.

Cheap media, good enough for non HDTV stuff, I'd be happy.

Somebody actually wants my money. (4, Interesting)

Bartab (233395) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300990)

Instead of pandering to the MPAA, and watching sales never really take off, Pioneer has decided to submit a potentially profitable piece of hardware to the market.

Now if it had 30sec forward, I'd actually buy it.

Re:Somebody actually wants my money. (2, Informative)

Dionysus (12737) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301080)

If it's the normal TIVO, it has 30sec forward. You just have to enable it.

Re:Somebody actually wants my money. (4, Informative)

bastion_xx (233612) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301198)

select - play - select - 3 - 0 - select

30 second forward now enabled.

TiVo in the UK - homebrew PVR instead? (5, Interesting)

Mr_Silver (213637) | more than 11 years ago | (#6300997)

Since the original hardware manufacturers (Thompson) for TiVo in the UK have pulled out of the market and you can now only get them on eBay - is it actually worth purchasing TiVo if you live on our little island?

Alternativily I was thinking about purchasing a silent PC (such as the one at Tranquil PC [tranquilpc.co.uk] ) and installing MythTV on it, but I don't know how well it would work given that it's a hell of a lot more expensive than TiVo off eBay.

Also just looking at mini-itx.com [mini-itx.com] I see something called OneBox [oneboxmc.com] . It looks to be running Windows but apparantly it allows you to run MAME on it too.

So, ignoring the waffle above - what i'm saying is

  1. Is TiVo still a viable option in the UK despite the fact there is no hardware manfacturers? (ie. could they just pull out at any time)
  2. Would a homebrew PVR be better? (it would have to be substantially given that it costs twice as much and requires work from me)
  3. Would the tranquil PC or other box mentioned in the preview /. article be any good as a PVR? (processor power, graphics, IR, to name three things to think about)
  4. Would something like a onebox be better?
I like Linux and I use it, but I'm loath to spend lots of money on a homebrew kit only to spend several hours tearing my hair out and not getting anywhere. If it's going to be that, I'd rather just pay more and have it work.

Re:TiVo in the UK - homebrew PVR instead? (5, Interesting)

Qube (17569) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301079)

Short answer: yes. A proper TiVo is worth getting.

I believe it is a viable service in the UK. They have around 35,000 subscribers, all either having paid the 200ukp lifetime or 10ukp a month. The guide data (listings, descriptions, etc) is prepared by Tribune and will cost them significantly less than the subscriber cost. Add on a little overhead for running 0800 numbers, their own servers and a few staff and you're still making a fortune. Customer service is handled by Sky, but could be outsourced anywhere if Sky dropped them. I just don't see why they'd cut off a source of revenue (albeit a small one) and effectively shut the door on their return to the UK.

Homebrew - they're "better" in the sense that you can do other things with them. Run MAME, get your email, play DVDs and MP3s and other nifty stuff. I'm still not impressed by the actual TV recording and playback. I like things that have one task and do it very well - TiVo is in that category. I have consoles to play games on, and if I want to check my email in front of the TV I'll just grab my laptop.

I was really quite skeptical about the monthly subscription, but thought I'd give it a go for a couple of months. It's hard to get across how convenient it is to just forget about TV schedules and just have a box that gets the programmes you like whenever they're on and has them ready for when you feel like watching. That is what really separates the proper PVRs from the homebrew ones, that require far more checking, faffing about and general irritation.

If mine blew up tomorrow and it cost me twice as much to replace it, I would. It's worth every penny.

Re:TiVo in the UK - homebrew PVR instead? (1)

aug24 (38229) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301110)

If mine blew up tomorrow and it cost me twice as much to replace it, I would. It's worth every penny.

Seconded. Does that answer your question? ;-)

J.

Re:TiVo in the UK - homebrew PVR instead? (2, Informative)

will_die (586523) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301098)

I would do it for two reason, provided I was just getting antenna reception.
1) still has more room then a single tape in a VCR, and you can record and play at the same time.
2) more record time slots, the best VCR I ever say could record 8 different times. Tivo is near unlimited.
Granted I would not pay to activate the service, just would enough to set the time ever so often.

Re:TiVo in the UK - homebrew PVR instead? (1)

Daemonic (575884) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301217)

I've got a Freeview (Digital TV via aerial) box, and so I don't want a PVR that only records analogue signals, as my reception is a bit fuzzy on a couple of channels.

The SKY Digibox would be great, except that I don't want cable TV.

So I'm holding out for the first PVR I can find that lets me record from the digital TV while watching another channel.

Looks like I'm in for quite a wait.

Hummmm (0, Funny)

Delifisek (190943) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301007)

If you are Big company you may create a DVD-BURNER. But if you just Linux Hacker, may sued by one of the these companies because of the writing DVD Decoding program...

Ummm... Capitalists.....

So, these kind of devices destroyes TV AD's revenue too, Perhaps Carl Marx right, those capitalists may kill each other...

Lots of $$ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6301043)

Tivo + The Mac you already have with a Superdrive = Your shows on DVD.

Format for DVD-R/RW storage? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6301045)

Will this use TiVo's own closed file format or will disk created with TiVo/DVD Burner be playable with standard DVD-players?

another reason why tivocommunity sucks donkey ass (-1, Flamebait)

sPaKr (116314) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301084)

Jesus christ on a cross. TivoCommunity.com, has huge blackout hole on two topics. First being Theft of serivce. Of course they consider using a tivo without paying for the tivo service even if you dont want the service 'theft of service'. The other verboten topic is recording extraction. This is becouse the Tivo is supposedly terrified of the media industry, but it looks like as soon as a heavy weight wants to build the box all of a sudden the topic is no longer verboten but even part of a licensing deal. That sucks. They have crapped on the tivo users for so long, first stealing all of the good hacks which were free and then locking down the Series2 boxes, just to sell the common hacks to rest of us at a huge price/package (aka Home Media Option). Can someone ANY ONE explain why hacking huge drives into the tivo (something that directly impacts sale prices ) is OK, but extracting the recordings to archive isnt? When buying the tivo your not forced into a contract so why then is third party programming sources illegal? Tivo needs to get back to its roots. Build a kickass machines, and let us geeks have our way with it, we will build new ideas and features that they would have never tought of. Im sure the OSD of callerID was really High on the list for tivo before the hackers got to it. Or the TivoWeb interface was just a step ahead of the offical web interface I mean tivo would had it on the road map.. BS. Just for the record telling us that we arnt allowed to extract recordings for the last 3 years and then signing a contract to build a machine that exactly does that is the biggest load of crap I have ever seen. You should appologize to all tivo owners for being such a group of sell out assholes.

here is the ultimate set-top-box (2, Interesting)

jonwil (467024) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301187)

Someone should make a set-top-box thats a cross between:
A PC
A Games machine (perhaps)
A PVR
A DVD player/burner

Basicly, it would be a quiet-design, small-size PC with reasonable hardware and in a box that works well with your home entertainment box. Give it a USB thingo with a keyboard and trackball to use as input. And make it so you can plug in things like digital cameras, gamepads etc.
Then build in a ethernet port for network access and TV in/out for display and input of stuff.
And give it a big disk to store stuff
Also put in a DVD drive (perhaps with a DVD burner or one of those DVD drive/CD buruner combo) as options.
Build it around linux (because its free & its open, make all the software for this thing open) and bundle:
PVR software to make it work like a PVR
DVD player/burner software
Multimedia software so you can play audio, video and so on (by downloading it over the ethernet port or from CDs/DVDs containing audio or video data e.g. audio CDs, VCDs or whatever else the multimedia player supports.

So, basicly, this box would be usefull to:
1.record shows from the TV
2.play back the recorded shows
3.transfer the recorded shows over the ethernet link
4.burn the recorded shows to optical media (if you get the burner option)
5.watch DVDs, VCDs and whatever other video CD formats you want to install players for
6.watch video files in any format you have a player for
7.listen to Audio CDs and audio files in any format (being based on linux, supporting OGG for example would be dead simple)

You could also run anything else the hardware could support on it (for example, games or emulators).

Basicly, it would be a ready-made PC in a box designed to fit with an existing stereo, TV, VCR etc and capable of doing multimedia things. Would come with the software preinstalled and a nice GUI interface for the non-technical but those that know how could run anything from MAME to quake on it (if the hardware is up to it).

I'm confused.. (1)

Botchka (589180) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301191)

Pioneer makes a device which allows you to record television shows and movies to DVD from your cable network. How is this any different than me using the same cable network, to download and burn music to cd's? Movies can't be copyrighted? Am I gonna get a little cease and desist popup on my television now?

Shame they won't do this with DirecTivo (1)

wowbagger (69688) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301320)

It is a shame they won't do this for the DirecTivo sat receiver.

However, since that would allow you to in effect grab the high-grade MPEG data stream the sat service puts out without any degradation, it is roughly as probable they release a DTivo with DVD (a DVDDTivo?) as Bill Gates giving RMS a big French^WFreedom Kiss.

(and you cannot easily use TivoNET to extract the video from a DTivo - it is stored in an encrypted form on the HD and is decrypted by hardware upon playback, and as far as I know nobody has created a module that will play the video back through the crypto chip then stream it to your computer. Additionally, while hacking the stand-alone Tivo's isn't much of a problem, the DTivos will overwrite any changes you make on the next reboot.)

So I just grab the video using my Firewire capture device, then encode it. One step of analog loss (and I can go throught SVideo if needed). Fair use lives (though is on life support).

I'm still looking for a way to hack a Series 2 (1)

jocknerd (29758) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301384)

It sucks not being able to save a recorded show. I've even tried hooking up my video camera to the TiVo but the picture is scrambled on my video camera. I haven't figured that one out yet.

Did anyone catch this? (emphasis mine) (1)

mpath (555000) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301523)

... hard drive or long-term archival of broadcast programming on DVD-R/RW discs.

Does that mean just the stuff that comes over the airwaves, or will it include cable transmissions, too?

*yawn* - could be too early ... my coffee hasn't been fully-absorbed yet. :)

<theory>I'm sure that Hollywood (MPAA, etc) will force this device to comply with the flag system they'll use with digital cable (flag for no record at all, flag for record short-term only or a flag for full record -- guess which one will be the default? ;)).</theory>

Build them (1)

t_allardyce (48447) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301534)

Hopefully building your own PVR, free from digital restrictions management systems will become more popular, Tivo will be useless because everyone will make their own or buy a normal PC that does it (without the restrictions). Then you can add funky things like free TV listings, and groups of people on the net who send signals when adverts start and stop so your PVR can automatically deal with them (i.e get rid of them). Hopefully we can completely drag commercial networks under by 2006, destroy the MPAA and RIAA by 2007 and look forward to a media free society by 2008 watching reruns of quincy :)

Why spend the cash when..... (2, Interesting)

Ride-My-Rocket (96935) | more than 11 years ago | (#6301546)

... you can download the ISOs of your favorite TV programs (from any number of websites or P2P networks), burn it to CD with your existing burner (VCD format), then toss it in your fairly-new DVD player and watch it on TV? Savings: $1200.

Granted, the biggest issue here is sophistication: you need to know how to convert the media to VCD or whatever, how to burn files to CD-R, where to go to get the ISOs, etc. But as with all things, Linux especially, the more technically savvy you are, the less dependent you are on commercial software.
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