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Working Hard?

michael posted more than 11 years ago | from the define-work dept.

The Almighty Buck 1140

Two related stories about working hard in the U.S.: U.S. workers are granted less (and take less) vacation time than workers in other industrialized nations. And if that wasn't enough, changes to the overtime laws will eliminate overtime pay for many workers.

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IMPORTANT! THE LINUX GAY CONSPIRACY! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316091)

Update: "Fist Sport" explained. (05/17/01)

---

Paid for advertisement from the Michael Sims [hitler.org] is a Treacherous Cunt society

Freedom
Is
Really
Something
That

Pisses
Off
Slashdot
Tyrants [spectacle.org] .

---

It has come to my attention that the entire Linux community is a hotbed of so called 'alternative sexuality,' which includes anything from hedonistic orgies to homosexuality to pedophilia.

What better way of demonstrating this than by looking at the hidden messages contained within the names of some of Linux's most outspoken advocates:

Linus Torvalds [microsoft.com] is an anagram of SLIT ANUS OR VD 'L,' clearly referring to himself by the first initial.

Richard M. Stallman [geocities.com] , spokespervert for the Gaysex is Not Unusual 'movement' is an anagram of MANS CRAM THRILL AD.

Alan Cox [microsoft.com] is barely an anagram of ANAL COX which is just so filthy and unchristian it unnerves me.

I'm sure that Eric S. Raymond, composer of the satanic homosexual [goatse.cx] propaganda diatribe The Cathedral and the Bizarre, [Buy At Amazon [50megs.com] ] is probably an anagram of something queer, but we don't need to look that far as we know he's always shoving a gun up some poor little boy's rectum. Update: Eric S. Raymond is actually an anagram for SECONDARY RIM and CORD IN MY ARSE. It just goes to show you that he is indeed queer.

Update the Second: It is also documented that Evil Sicko Gaymond is responsible for a nauseating piece of code called Fetchmail [microsoft.com] , which is obviously sinister sodomite slang for "Felch Male" - a disgusting practise. For those not in the know, "felching" is the act performed by two perverts wherein one sucks their own post-coital ejaculate out of the other's rectum. In fact, it appears that the dirty Linux faggots set out to undermine the good Republican institution of e-mail, turning it into "e-male."

As far as Richard "(cock)Master" Stallman goes, that filthy fudge-packer was actually quoted [salon.com] on leftist commie propaganda site Salon.com as saying the following:

RMS: "I've been resistant to the pressure to conform in any circumstance," he says. "It's about being able to question conventional wisdom," he asserts. "I believe in love, but not monogamy," he says plainly.

And this isn't a made up troll bullshit either! He actually stated this tripe, which makes it obvious that he is trying to politely say that he's a flaming homo [comp-u-geek.net] slut [rotten.com] !

Speaking about "flaming," who better to point out as a filthy chutney ferret than Slashdot's very own self-confessed pederast Jon Katz. Although an obvious deviant anagram cannot be found from his name, he has already confessed, nay boasted of the homosexual [goatse.cx] perversion of corrupting the innocence of young children [slashdot.org] . To quote from the article linked:

"I've got a rare kidney disease,' I told her. 'I have to go to the bathroom a lot. You can come with me if you want, but it takes a while. Is that okay with you? Do you want a note from my doctor?'

Is this why you were touching your penis [rotten.com] in the cinema, Jon? And letting the other boys touch it too?

We should also point out that Jon Katz refers to himself as "Slashdot's resident Gasbag." Is there any more doubt? For those fortunate few who aren't aware of the list of homosexual [goatse.cx] terminology found inside the Linux "Sauce Code," a "Gasbag" is a pervert who gains sexual gratification from having a thin straw inserted into his urethra (or to use the common parlance, "piss-pipe"), then his homosexual [goatse.cx] lover blows firmly down the straw to inflate his scrotum. This is, of course, when he's not busy violating the dignity and copyright of posters to Slashdot by gathering together their postings and publishing them en masse to further his twisted and manipulative journalistic agenda.

Sick, disgusting antichristian perverts, the lot of them.

In addition, many of the Linux distributions (a 'distribution' is the most common way to spread the faggots' wares) are run by faggot groups. The Slackware [redhat.com] distro is named after the Slack-wear fags wear to allow easy access to the anus for sexual purposes. Furthermore, Slackware is a close anagram of CLAW ARSE, a reference to the homosexual [goatse.cx] practise of anal fisting. The Mandrake [slackware.com] product is run by a group of French faggot satanists, and is named after the faggot nickname for the vibrator. It was also chosen because it is an anagram for DARK AMEN and RAM NAKED, which is what they do.

Another "distro," (abbrieviated as such because it sounds a bit like "Disco," which is where homosexuals [goatse.cx] preyed on young boys in the 1970s), is Debian [mandrake.com] , an anagram of IN A BED, which could be considered innocent enough (after all, a bed is both where we sleep and pray), until we realise what other names Debian uses to describe their foul wares. "Woody" is obvious enough, being a term for the erect male penis [rotten.com] , glistening with pre-cum. But far sicker is the phrase "Frozen Potato" that they use. This filthy term, again found in the secret homosexual [goatse.cx] "Sauce Code," refers to the solo homosexual [goatse.cx] practice of defecating into a clear polythene bag, shaping the turd into a crude approximation of the male phallus, then leaving it in the freezer overnight until it becomes solid. The practitioner then proceeds to push the frozen 'potato' up his own rectum, squeezing it in and out until his tight young balls erupt in a screaming orgasm.

And Red Hat [debian.org] is secret homo [comp-u-geek.net] slang for the tip of a penis [rotten.com] that is soaked in blood from a freshly violated underage ringpiece.

The fags have even invented special tools to aid their faggotry! For example, the "supermount" tool was devised to allow deeper penetration, which is good for fags because it gives more pressure on the prostate gland. "Automount" is used, on the other hand, because Linux users are all fat and gay, and need to mount each other [comp-u-geek.net] automatically.

The depths of their depravity can be seen in their use of "mount points." These are, plainly speaking, the different points of penetration. The main one is obviously /anus, but there are others. Militant fags even say "There is no /opt mount point" because for these dirty perverts faggotry is not optional but a way of life.

More evidence is in the fact that Linux users say how much they love 'man', even going so far as to say that all new Linux users (who are in fact just innocent heterosexuals indoctrinated by the gay propaganda) should try out 'man'. In no other system do users boast of their frequent recourse to a man.

Other areas of the system also show Linux's inherit gayness. For example, people are often told of the "FAQ," but how many innocent heterosexual Windows [amiga.com] users know what this actually means. The answer is shocking: Faggot Anal Quest: the voyage of discovery for newly converted fags!

Some more proof of Linux's inherent gayness has come to my attention. Readers of Slashdot [slashduh.org] , a prominent Linux evangelism site, often compete to get the "First Post" on a new story. While this may at first seem like harmless inanity, "first post" is actually an anagram for the much more sinister FIST SPORT, obviously referring to the disgusting homosexual practice of "fisting", whereby one man forces first his clenched fist then the rest of his queer arm up into the lower intestine of another man. How any proper Christian person could find pleasure in this practice is abhorrent.

Also on Slashdot, half of the postings to these articles begin with, in big capital letters, I ANAL, which requires no explanation, and is so blatantly filthy it boggles the mind.

Even the title "Slashdot [geekizoid.com] " originally referred to a homosexual [goatse.cx] practice. Slashdot [kuro5hin.org] of course refers to the popular gay practice of blood-letting. The Slashbots, of course are those super-zealous hemosexuals [geocities.com] who take this perversion to its extreme by ripping open their anuses, as seen on the site most popular with Slashdot users, the depraved work of Satan, http://www.goatse.cx/ [osdn.com] .

The editors of Slashdot [slashduh.org] also have homosexual [goatse.cx] names: "Hemos" is obvious in itself, being one vowel away from "Homos." But even more sickening is "Commander Taco" which sounds a bit like "Commode in Taco," filthy gay slang for a pair of spreadeagled buttocks that are caked with excrement [pboy.com] . (The best form of lubrication, they insist.) Sometimes, these "Taco Commodes" have special "Salsa Sauce" (blood from a ruptured rectum) and "Cheese" (rancid flakes of penis [rotten.com] discharge) toppings. And to make it even worse, Slashdot [notslashdot.org] runs on Apache!

The Apache [microsoft.com] server, whose use among fags is as prevalent as AIDS, is named after homosexual [goatse.cx] activity -- as everyone knows, popular faggot band, The Village People [olsentwins.com] , featured an Apache Indian, and it is for him that this gay program is named.

And that's not forgetting the use of patches in the Linux fag world -- patches are used to make the anus accessible for repeated anal sex even after its rupture by a session of fisting.

To summarise: Linux is gay. "Slash - Dot" is the graphical description of the space between a young boy's scrotum and anus. And BeOS [apple.com] is for hermaphrodites and disabled "stumpers."

FEEDBACK

What worries me is how much you know about what gay people do. I'm scared I actually read this whole thing. I think this post is a good example of the negative effects of Internet usage on people. This person obviously has no social life anymore and had to result to writing something as stupid as this. And actually take the time to do it too. Although... I think it was satire.. blah.. it's early. - Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well, the only reason I know all about this is because I had the misfortune to read the Linux "Sauce code" once. Although publicised as the computer code needed to get Linux up and running on a computer (and haven't you always been worried about the phrase "Monolithic Kernel"?), this foul document is actually a detailed and graphic description of every conceivable degrading perversion known to the human race, as well as a few of the major animal species. It has shocked and disturbed me, to the point of needing to shock and disturb the common man to warn them of the impending homo [comp-u-geek.net] -calypse which threatens to engulf our planet.

You must work for the government. Trying to post the most obscene stuff in hopes that slashdot won't be able to continue or something, due to legal woes. If i ever see your ugly face, i'm going to stick my fireplace poker up your ass, after it's nice and hot, to weld shut that nasty gaping hole of yours. - Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Doesn't it give you a hard-on to imagine your thick strong poker ramming it's way up my most sacred of sphincters? You're beyond help, my friend, as the only thing you can imagine is the foul penetrative violation of another man. Are you sure you're not Eric Raymond? The government, being populated by limp-wristed liberals, could never stem the sickening tide of homosexual [goatse.cx] child molesting Linux advocacy. Hell, they've given NAMBLA [nra.org] free reign for years!

you really should post this logged in. i wish i could remember jebus's password, cuz i'd give it to you. - mighty jebus [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Thank you for your kind words of support. However, this document shall only ever be posted anonymously. This is because the "Open Sauce" movement is a sham, proposing homoerotic cults of hero worshipping in the name of freedom. I speak for the common man. For any man who prefers the warm, enveloping velvet folds of a woman's vagina [bodysnatchers.co.uk] to the tight puckered ringpiece of a child. These men, being common, decent folk, don't have a say in the political hypocrisy that is Slashdot culture. I am the unknown liberator [xenu.net] .

ROLF LAMO i hate linux FAGGOTS - Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

We shouldn't hate them, we should pity them for the misguided fools they are... Fanatical Linux zeal-outs need to be herded into camps for re-education and subsequent rehabilitation into normal heterosexual society. This re-education shall be achieved by forcing them to watch repeats of Baywatch until the very mention of Pamela Anderson [rotten.com] causes them to fill their pants with healthy heterosexual jism [zillabunny.com] .

Actually, that's not at all how scrotal inflation works. I understand it involves injecting sterile saline solution into the scrotum. I've never tried this, but you can read how to do it safely [queernet.org] in case you're interested.
(Before you moderate this down, ask yourself honestly - who are the real crazies - people who do scrotal inflation, or people who pay $1000+ for a game console?) - double_h [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Well, it just goes to show that even the holy Linux "sauce code" is riddled with bugs that need fixing. (The irony of Jon Katz not even being able to inflate his scrotum correctly has not been lost on me.) The Linux pervert elite already acknowledge this, with their queer slogan: "Given enough arms, all rectums are shallow." And anyway, the PS2 [xbox.com] sucks major cock and isn't worth the money. Intellivision forever!

dude did u used to post on msnbc's nt bulletin board now that u are doing anti-gay posts u also need to start in with anti-black stuff too c u in church - Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

For one thing, whilst Linux is a cavalcade of queer propaganda masquerading as the future of computing, NT [linux.com] is used by people who think nothing better of encasing their genitals in quick setting plaster then going to see a really dirty porno film, enjoying the restriction enforced onto them. Remember, a wasted arousal is a sin in the eyes of the Catholic church [atheism.org] . Clearly, the only god-fearing Christian operating system in existence is CP/M -- The Christian Program Monitor. All computer users should immediately ask their local pastor to install this fine OS onto their systems. It is the only route to salvation.

Secondly, this message is for every man. Computers know no colour. Not only that, but one of the finest websites in the world is maintained by A Black Man [stileproject.com] . Now fuck off you racist donkey felcher.

And don't forget that slashdot was written in Perl, which is just too close to "Pearl Necklace" for comfort.... oh wait; that's something all you heterosexuals do.... I can't help but wonder how much faster the trolls could do First-Posts on this site if it were redone in PHP... I could hand-type dynamic HTML pages faster than Perl can do them. - phee [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Although there is nothing unholy about the fine heterosexual act of ejaculating between a woman's breasts, squirting one's load up towards her neck and chin area, it should be noted that Perl [python.org] (standing for Pansies Entering Rectums Locally) is also close to "Pearl Monocle", "Pearl Nosering", and the ubiquitous "Pearl Enema".

One scary thing about Perl [sun.com] is that it contains hidden homosexual [goatse.cx] messages. Take the following code: LWP::Simple -- It looks innocuous enough, doesn't it? But look at the line closely: There are two colons next to each other! As Larry "Balls to the" Wall would openly admit in the Perl Documentation [goatse.cx] , Perl was designed from the ground up to indoctrinate it's programmers into performing unnatural sexual acts -- having two colons so closely together is clearly a reference to the perverse sickening act of "colon kissing," whereby two homosexual [goatse.cx] queers spread their buttocks wide, pressing their filthy torn sphincters together. They then share small round objects like marbles or golfballs by passing them from one rectum to another using muscle contraction alone. This is also referred to in programming 'circles' as "Parameter Passing".

And PHP [perl.org] stands for Perverted Homosexual Penetration. Didn't you know?

Thank you for your valuable input on this. I am sure you will be never forgotten. BTW: Did I mention that this could be useful in terraforming Mars? Mars rulaa. - Eimernase [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Well, I don't know about terraforming Mars, but I DO know that homosexual [goatse.cx] Linux Advocates have been probing Uranus for years.

That's inspiring. Keep up the good work, AC. May God in his wisdom grant you the strength to bring the plain honest truth to this community, and make it pure again. Yours, Cerberus. - Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

*sniff* That brings a tear to my eye. Thank you once more for your kind support. I have taken faith in the knowledge that I am doing the Good Lord [atheism.org] 's work, but it is encouraging to know that I am helping out the common man here.

However, I should be cautious about revealing your name 'Cerberus' on such a filthy den of depravity as Slashdot. It is a well known fact that the 'Kerberos' documentation from Microsoft is a detailed manual describing, in intimate, exacting detail, how to sexually penetrate a variety of unwilling canine animals; be they domesticated, wild, or mythical. Slashdot posters have taken great pleasure in illegally spreading this documentation far and wide, treating it as an "extension" to the Linux "Sauce Code," for the sake of "interoperability." (The slang term they use for non-consensual intercourse - their favourite kind.)

In fact, sick twisted Linux deviants are known to have LAN parties, (Love of Anal Naughtiness, needless to say.), wherein they entice a stray dog, known as the "Samba Mount," into their homes. Up to four of these filth-sodden blasphemers against nature take turns to plunge their erect, throbbing, uncircumcised members, conkers-deep, into the rectum, mouth, and other fleshy orifices of the poor animal. Eventually, the "Samba Mount" collapses due to "overload," and needs to be "rebooted." (i.e., kicked out into the street, and left to fend for itself.) Many Linux users boast about their "uptime" in such situations.

Inspiring stuff! If only all trolls were this quality! - Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

If only indeed. You can help our brave cause by moderating this message up as often as possible. I recommend +1, Underrated, as that will protect your precious Karma in Metamoderation [slashdot.org] . Only then can we break through the glass ceiling of Homosexual Slashdot Culture. Is it any wonder that the new version of Slashcode has been christened "Bender"???

If we can get just one of these postings up to at least '+1,' then it will be archived forever! Others will learn of our struggle, and join with us in our battle for freedom!

It's pathetic you've spent so much time writing this. - Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I am compelled to document the foulness and carnal depravity [catholic.net] that is Linux, in order that we may prepare ourselves for the great holy war that is to follow. It is my solemn duty to peel back the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wire brush of enlightenment.

As with any great open-source project, you need someone asking this question, so I'll do it. When the hell is version 2.0 going to be ready?!?! - Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I could make an arrogant, childish comment along the lines of "Every time someone asks for 2.0, I won't release it for another 24 hours," but the truth of the matter is that I'm quite nervous of releasing a "number two," as I can guarantee some filthy shit-slurping Linux pervert would want to suck it straight out of my anus before I've even had chance to wipe.

I desperately want to suck your monolithic kernel, you sexy hunk, you. - Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I sincerely hope you're Natalie Portman [geocities.com] .

Dude, nothing on slashdot larger than 3 paragraphs is worth reading. Try to distill the message, whatever it was, and maybe I'll read it. As it is, I have to much open source software to write to waste even 10 seconds of precious time. 10 seconds is all its gonna take M$ to whoop Linux's ass. Vigilence is the price of Free (as in libre -- from the fine, frou frou French language) Software. Hack on fellow geeks, and remember: Friday is Bouillabaisse day except for heathens who do not believe that Jesus died for their sins. Those godless, oil drench, bearded sexist clowns can pull grits from their pantaloons (another fine, fine French word) and eat that. Anyway, try to keep your message focused and concise. For concision is the soul of derision. Way. - Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

What the fuck?

I've read your gay conspiracy post version 1.3.0 and I must say I'm impressed. In particular, I appreciate how you have managed to squeeze in a healthy dose of the latent homosexuality you gay-bashing homos [comp-u-geek.net] tend to be full of. Thank you again. - Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well bugger me!

ooooh honey. how insecure are you!!! wann a little massage from deare bruci. love you - Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Fuck right off!

IMPORTANT: This message needs to be heard (Not HURD [linux.org] , which is an acronym for Huge Unclean Rectal Dilator) across the whole community, so it has been released into the Public Domain [icopyright.com] . You know, that licence that we all had before those homoerotic crypto-fascists came out with the GPL [apple.com] (Gay Penetration License, according to geekacronyms.org [geekizoid.com] ) that is no more than an excuse to see who's got the biggest feces-encrusted [rotten.com] cock. I would have put this up on Freshmeat [adultmember.com] , but that name is KNOWN to be a euphemism for the tight rump of a young boy.

Come to think of it, the whole concept of "Source Control" unnerves me, because it sounds a bit like "Sauce Control," which is a description of the homosexual [goatse.cx] practice of holding the base of the cock shaft tightly upon the point of ejaculation, thus causing a build up of semenal fluid that is only released upon entry into an incision made into the base of the receiver's scrotum. And "Open Sauce" is the act of ejaculating into another mans face or perhaps a biscuit to be shared later. Obviously, "Closed Sauce" is the only Christian thing to do, as evidenced by the fact that it is what Cathedrals are all about.

Contributors: (although not to the eternal game of "soggy biscuit" that open "sauce" development has become) Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, phee, Anonymous Coward, mighty jebus, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, double_h, Anonymous Coward, Eimernase, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, The WIPO Troll, FreeWIPO, Bring BackATV. Further contributions are welcome.

Current changes: This version is based on the all-too-rare backup copy sent to FreeWIPO [5u.com] by 'Bring BackATV' as plain text. Re-reformatted everything, added all links back in (that we could match from the previous version), many new ones (Slashbot bait links). Even more spelling fixed. Additional stuff done in preparation for the future. Addition of F.I.R.S.T.P.O.S.T. for the sake of decent folk everywhere!

Previous changes: Yet more changes added. Spelling fixed. Feedback added. Explanation of 'distro' system. 'Mount Point' syntax described. More filth regarding 'man' and Slashdot. Yet more fucking spelling fixed. 'Fetchmail' uncovered further. More Slashbot baiting. Apache exposed. Distribution licence at foot of document.

ANUX -- A full Linux distribution... Up your ass!

Re:IMPORTANT! THE LINUX GAY CONSPIRACY! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316351)

You forgot that imbedded linux will be the "likeness" that will be given a voice. That will put *as* many that will not worship it's likeness or recieve the number of the beast to killed.

Exhibit "A" (-1, Flamebait)

mrpuffypants (444598) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316092)

I'd like to refer everybody to my signature for my feelings on this matter....

Democrats....Repubs (2, Interesting)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316159)

Democrats = The Gov provides for you. Repubs = You provide for the Gov. Libertarian = You provide for You. Now, which party are you with?

Re:Democrats....Repubs (2, Insightful)

mrpuffypants (444598) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316211)

D: I think for myself thank you very much.

If I disagree with the Dems on an issue then I disagree with them. I'm not just going to let something as retarted as "party loyalty" keep progress from progressing

Thankfully, though, we have lots of people that love doing that in D.C. right now for us

Re:Exhibit "A"-Deflation strikes again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316180)

" I'd like to refer everybody to my signature for my feelings on this matter...."

Well I guess from now on. Those pants aren't going to be so puffy.

Working Hard? (0, Funny)

Tiro (19535) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316094)

. . . Or hardly working?

Re:Working Hard? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316111)

Sounds like somebody's got a case of the Mondays!

Re:Working Hard? (-1, Redundant)

carpe_noctem (457178) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316124)

Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays!

Re:Working Hard? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316161)

Where I work, I believe you'd get your ass kicked for saying something like that, man!

hardly working (2, Interesting)

Erris (531066) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316247)

just like the panic of 1929. I'm told that people are now working more than anytime since before then. Anyone know if that's true?

Re:Working Hard? (0, Redundant)

telecaster (468063) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316276)

First off. I'm one of the people that thinks this is a good thing. Here's why:

Most of the lower end hourly employee's in this country abuse the system and cost the tax payer HUGE amounts of money because they are pushing the cost of the hourly wage up higher and back to the employer.

Here's an example:

Say your a grocery clerk earning $12.00 an hour stocking shelves. You work 4 days a week and you work on a sunday. You opt to NOT work that 5th weekday because you know that you can make double time, or time and half on sundays. So you work your way up the ladder and get that sunday as a "cherry" day where you could have simply worked that "normal day". There is SO MUCH of this, it's crazy.

The problem with this? Easy. Why on earth is someone who works at a supermarket on sunday's entitled to make time and a half because it's "sunday"? And why is it a "right" or a "law" it's crazy.

And don't give me this "holy day" crap. It's a load.

Think about it. You can basically do ANYTHING you want on sunday's. Go to the movies, buy a DVD, drink at a bar. So, I question the reasoning behind this perk as being just another "unionized hold over" from the days of unionized bullyism with employer's of non-salaried companies. Once a union get's their grips on the employer, it's like a leech sucking the life from the host...

Let's face it; An hour a person works putting can's on a shelf on monday is no different than the hour he she works on a sunday. Why does that person need to earn 50% more because it's frickin' sunday.

Remember, these laws cost us. The employer eats this salary and doesn't get to claim that employee's hours on the books -- it's considered "overtime" and not part of the 40 hours work week. It effects unemployement taxes and is a huge burden on the accounting side.

It eventually hurts the employer by costing them lot's of money which they eventually push back to us by keeping the prices up and/or hiring less employees.

I say "shit or get off the pot". If you want sunday to be a "holy day" or you don't want to have overtime pay for over 40 hours for certain types of "non-exempt" employee's then you can't have "wishy washy" blue law's that just don't make sense anymore in 2003.

I know one thing. My brother-in-law who's in a union and works for a grocery chain here in MA was complaining recently that he has to now pay for health insurance. I thought (that sucks), then he told me it was $50.00 a month. I almost puked. We (I own a software company here in Boston) pay $925 per family to BCBS -- I'd kill for $50.00 a month... But, yet, he complains.

Yes, he's very angry that he can't earn $34.00 an hour on sunday's anymore instead of making $22.00 on a normal day. Now he'll just work friday's instead of switching off on sunday's cause he's got "seniority". I guess his golf game might suffer.

I think hourly and non-salaried folks who are in these situations have to wake up.

Not working hard enough. (0, Flamebait)

HanzoSan (251665) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316302)


If it were up to me, I'd put beds at work and have people live their job. Be glad i'm not your CEO.

Vacations are good though, but you have to think of it this way, you should have a job you actually WANT to do, and you wont have a problem working 12 hours a day. Of course if you work at Mc Donalds you'll hate working 12 hours a day.

So the best way to get a person to work hard is to simply hire people who truely enjoy the job, and let the others sign a temp contract.

Imagine (0, Offtopic)

LPetrazickis (557952) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316095)

Imagine how productive a Beowulf Cluster of these workers would be, eh?;)

Hmmmmmm I wonder... (1)

rot26 (240034) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316098)

I wonder which Wal mega-company managed Mart to ram THIS one up the asses of American workers?

Re:Hmmmmmm I wonder... (4, Informative)

helix400 (558178) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316150)

Actually, the OT changes will benefit most Wal-Mart employees.

Under the current rules, any employee making more than $155 a week -- about $8,000 per year -- could be excluded from overtime...The good news is that the regulations would raise that cut-off amount to $425 a week -- about $22,100 per year -- actually adding about 1.3 million lower-wage workers to the ranks of people eligible for overtime."

The changes also make it harder for executives and those who make $65,000+ a year to claim overtime. Unfortunately, the majority of OT losses will come from "learned professionals", which could easily include computer techies.

Re:Hmmmmmm I wonder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316208)

Guess what, techies are exempt anyway. Read the Fair Labor Standards Act, as amended in the 90s and again in 2001. There are specific clauses exempting computer people from overtime. Sucks.

Re:Hmmmmmm I wonder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316309)

I work in IT and I am eligable for OT. So there

Re:Hmmmmmm I wonder... (1)

JimmytheGeek (180805) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316252)

Naw - Wallyworld will just make everyone a rotating supervisor for the day so they will be exempt from OT for all of their shifts. Wally does not like to pay OT. Wally is not particularly thrilled about paying plain old T.

Re:Hmmmmmm I wonder... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316242)

Actually, walmart gives 1 week a year to employees who've been there a year, full time.

After 2 years full time, 2 weeks paid off.

After 4 years, 4 weeks paid off.

After 7 years, 4 weeks off and 5 personal days guaranteed every year after.

Beat that.

That's also ontop of guaranteed 4 hours of holiday OT every major holiday, whether you work that day or not (you only have to catch a shift the day before or after to qualify)

And also in addition to the hefty profit sharing check that shows up in the mail 6 wks after you quit.

I received $3000 from Walmart when I quit 2 years ago. Enough money to buy a nice DV camera for myself.

Wouldn't ever work there again, but it was worth it for the money. Put me through college.

first post (-1, Offtopic)

ad0le (684017) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316099)

Woooo hooooo

People work harder in the U.S.? (0, Flamebait)

Loco3KGT (141999) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316106)

Like, OMG! Isn't that what made us? You work hard to get ahead in life. American Dream? Work hard for what you want...

Unless you're a liberal and think the government should take care of you and you should never have to work I guess....

Re:People work harder in the U.S.? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316121)

"Vote Democrat: it's easier than getting a job."

Re:People work harder in the U.S.? (-1, Flamebait)

Darth Maul (19860) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316135)

Amen. Truer words I have not read on Slashdot. We're turning into a nation of slackers whining for someone to take care of us. You're *supposed* to work hard, you dolt! You wanna turn out like France or something?

Re:People work harder in the U.S.? (4, Insightful)

bigmase521 (612670) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316207)

You're right, you're supposed to work hard. And many of us do just that. However I disagree with you. You use the word "slacker" in your post... How can someone who works OVER 40 hours a week be considered a slacker? Yes you're taught that hard work will get you whatever you desire in life, and in many cases that is true, however if you're a hard-working employee, you deserve the right to be compensated for all of the hard work you are doing for your employer.

Taking away overtime is just a slap in the face to every employee in that: If every worker out there puts in his/her all for their employer, and receives no benefit from it, where exactly is the motivation to continue to work hard?

Re:People work harder in the U.S.? (1)

AceM2 (655504) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316274)

You just have to look at it as part of your job.. If you don't like it you have to go somewhere else I guess.. The fact is, they're cutting overtime pay out because they usually just can't afford it.. Whether it's because they're paying their CEOs and whoever wayyy too much is a different matter.. Anyway what I'm saying is, if you did force companies to pay OT a lot of the companies doing this garbage now would basically just lay more people off, then just cut down everyone's salaries to make up for the difference.. If they'r paying you 50,000 (round number) without OT, they'll find a way to pay you 50,000 with OT. Or they can just (try) to do what my last place of business did.. Cut out OT and then rush the hell out of the employees to get the same amount of work done in 40 hours that used to take 50-60 hours.. Sure you'll have increased accidents and errors, but all upper management cares about is how much is getting done overall..

Re:People work harder in the U.S.? (1)

Aadain2001 (684036) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316275)

Exactly! Motivation is the entire basis of capitalism! You are motivated to work and perform because you get money/services/goods/etc based on your efforts and your results. If you take away the reward, you start loosing motivation. And to expect a large workforce to work just because "it's what's best for the company" is... COMMUNISM!

Re:People work harder in the U.S.? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316175)

Actually the fact that Europe destroyed itself and had to be rebuilt twice with U.S. loans in the last 100 years is what made us...

Re:People work harder in the U.S.? (1)

AceM2 (655504) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316223)

Being rebuilt with U.S. loans had nothing to do with Americans working their asses off in the factories to sent equipment to aid the allies either I bet right?.. Or Americans putting their lives on the line and dying in a foreign country far away from their loved ones right?..

I know that it wasn't just America.. but I'm sure you're smart enough to see our own sacrifice in the world wars..

Re:People work harder in the U.S.? (0, Troll)

AceM2 (655504) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316194)

rofl.. This either gets modded down as a troll because the person is saying people have to work hard to get ahead in life.. Or because of the liberal comment.. Which was a lot nicer than most of the anti-bush comments I see that get modded +5 Funny
Times like this I wish I had mod points to offset some of the morons around here..

Unless your supervisor is a thief (1)

polished look 2 (662705) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316233)

Sadly, I was given a programming job at a place in which my supervisor was involved in a scheme to defraud others and many of my co-workers were involved in it as well. When a co-worker of mine tried to blow the whistle, they ran him out and then ran me out as well. They still have their jobs but I'm unemployed.

Liberalism != (Communism || Socialism) (4, Interesting)

leereyno (32197) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316307)

Please don't insult genuine liberals by confusing us with the socialists and communists who lie by calling themselves liberals.

Socialists and communists are liberals the same way that script kiddies and crackers are hackers. In other words they're not. In both cases the terms have been misused to such a great extent that the original meaning has been largely forgotten.

If you want to understand genuine liberalism, read John Locke, Adam Smith, or basically anything written by the founding fathers of the US. If you want to understand the bullshit that people call liberalism today, read the Communist Manifesto.

Be sure to keep a bucket nearby when you do to catch your vomit. Also lock up any guns you might have so that you can resist the urge to go out and start shooting the bastards.

Lee

Re:People work harder in the U.S.? (1)

helix400 (558178) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316317)

LOL. I love it. Sometimes, having -1 Troll moderations are wrong. This deserves a Score:5 Troll

America = Corporate Slavery (-1)

sujan (464326) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316110)

America hasn't changed at all.

Learned Professionals? (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316114)

So let me get this straight. The more you know, the less likely you are to get overtime? This is just the incentive that millions of Americans need to go out and get the training they need for the jobs of today.

Is it just me or does it seem like almost everything Dubya does is intended to lower the quality of life for the average American?

Re:Learned Professionals? (2, Interesting)

Loco3KGT (141999) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316139)

They're defense might be that the fewer people getting paid overtime will require employers to hire more people to make up for those who stop working overtime. Theoretically more people will be employed and the companies can cut costs... but the person getting overtime is officially shafted..

but that's just in theory.

Re:Learned Professionals? (3, Interesting)

AceM2 (655504) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316153)

While I believe everyone should be granted overtime pay.. Which would the average slashdot poster do? Build furniture 50-60 hours a week, or code.. Seriously.. If you've never had a physical job, you have no idea how much it takes out of you.. If I had to choose which type of person should get OT pay, it'd be the physical laborer that (we assume) doesn't know as much as your average code geek or accountant... I think working in a factory setting vs office setting is already incentive enough to get the training they need.

Re:Learned Professionals? (0, Flamebait)

interiot (50685) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316182)

  • The more you know, the less likely you are to get overtime?
Ever heard of a progressive tax? Our welfare system? The fortune helping the unfortunate?

Re:Learned Professionals? (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316250)

Ever heard of a progressive tax? Our welfare system? The fortune helping the unfortunate?

Progressive tax doesn't necessarily help anyone. If you had a flat tax with no exemptions, everyone would pay less, except the rich, who currently get out of tons of taxes via loopholes, and corporations, which also currently get out of tons of taxes via loopholes. Of course, that means that many goods and services would cost more, but there's no sense in me paying for goods and services that you use. Food and medical services would remain untaxed.

And I'm on CMSP (Medi-Cal for people over a certain age) so it's not like I'm against all social services. But you do realize that this actually lowers the bar so that someone who went to ITT is now considered a learned professional (quite a joke if I've ever heard one) which means that they won't be getting the overtime they need to pay off their tuition loans... and I doubt the ITT loans are on terms as generous as the Subsidized Stafford Loan which I have used to pay for my expenses in community college.

The fact remains that we are punishing people for seeking additional training. Meanwhile, in California (where most of these technical people and jobs are) Davis' budget is about to cripple the Community Colleges all over, and the State Colleges and Unis are constantly raising tuition rather than expanding. They could expand and take more students, or they can simply sit around at their current size, raise tuition...

The result? Ever-greater stratification of society. A greater separation between the rich and the poor. The upper middle class becomes the lower middle class, the lower class continues to suffer, and the rich only get richer. Do you really think that the majority of people who are currently on TANF, Medi-Cal (and similar programs), Food Stamps and so on would rather collect that shit and live in poverty than have a good job and support themselves? There are always bad eggs but in general, that's not the way people think.

Re:Learned Professionals? (4, Insightful)

mrpuffypants (444598) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316197)

In a word, yes.

If you own a petrochemical plant and need to drop a few hundred barrels of waste into a nearby river be sure to line some pockets and the regulations will relax, letting you kill everybody downstream slowly.

If you happpen to be a single mother working 2 or 3 jobs at minimum wage then you don't get tax breaks because you make too little, your federally-funded daycare gets cut back, you drink water that was just polluted upstream and can't say anything about it, then you get spied on because you could be a terrorist just because you have a friend named Abdul. /me prepars for oncoming flame war (No! Don't play the homeland security card!)

Re:Learned Professionals? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316255)

you don't get tax breaks because you make too little Actually, you aren't getting tax breaks because YOU ARE NOT PAYING TAXES. The entire freaking debate over the child tax credit was whether or not people should be able to get tax credits BEYOND what their tax obligation. Ex. Should someone who pays $1000 a year in taxes be able to get a $3000 tax return. If you want to get money to the poor, call it welfare, don't call it a "tax cut" if they aren't paying taxes.

Re:Learned Professionals? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316315)

Is it just me or does it seem like almost everything Dubya does is intended to lower the quality of life for the average American?

Guess what... EVERY PIECE OF LEGISLATION HE SIGNS IS SENT TO HIM FROM CONGRESS

The Dems have enough votes to filibuster anything they do not agree with. Moron.

Wrong. (3, Informative)

dj28 (212815) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316321)

In fact, American workers are more productive per hour than their German and British counterparts. [physicsweb.org]

Whoever modded the parent up got trolled hard.

Wal-Mart (1)

TenderMuffin (319798) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316115)

Nice to see that an American icon, Wal-Mart, is contributing to people, well, working hard.

i apologize in advance for my lack of html skills.

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12962

headline (5, Funny)

Angron (127881) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316123)

Kinda scary loading up slashdot at work and seeing a headline that sounds like it's scolding you for not working....

-A

Hmmm... this is slashdot... (0, Redundant)

bad_fx (493443) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316125)

...so the story title should probably have read:

Hardly Working?

Re:Hmmm... this is slashdot... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316187)

Uh-oh, sounds like somebody has a case of the Mondays!

Re:Hmmm... this is slashdot... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316271)

Hmmm... this is slashdot... ...so the story title should probably have read:

Hardly Working?


Why is parent post modded "Redundant"? Like he said, this is Slashdot.

capitalists love it (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316126)

the more physical your labour, the less you get paid.

the less you get paid, the more you work.

the more you work, the less vacation you get.

the rich get richer, and you.. well.. you're still working hand-to-mouth.

Re:capitalists love it (1)

spencerogden (49254) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316278)

Its my impression that this will make it harder for high paid workers to get overtime. While lower paid workers will get overtime. Seems like the opposite of your statements.

Barking up the wrong tree (5, Funny)

Rylfaeth (138910) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316134)

I think this is probably not the right crowd to be asking this question ... a ton of us tech types are unemployed, those that have jobs sit at work playing solitaire and the ones that both have a job and actually do it are far too busy to join in this crappy discussion :P
-Rylfaeth

Re:Barking up the wrong tree (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316167)

my job is to play solitare, seriously

Don't like it? (4, Insightful)

shepd (155729) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316136)

Don't work.

You can all bitch and moan all you like about no vacation time, not enough overtime pay, etc, but the more you take, the more you'll end up paying.

The only way you'll get ahead is to start contracting for yourself. But that's scary and risky!

Guess what... running a business is too. That's why they get compensated so much if they're successful.

Re:Don't like it? (0, Flamebait)

Loco3KGT (141999) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316154)

If they don't work then the more we end up paying.. because they end up on welfare... IE my hard earned money gets taken from me and given to them.

Re:Don't like it? (1)

skatteola (415784) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316266)

Trying not to sound like a troll (but I probably will, so mod me as you like), I don't like this kind of mentality. Firstly, most people living on welfare doesn't like it and would do anything to get a job, and secondly, maybe there is something like compassion in this world? I'm dreaming, I know.

Re:Don't like it? (1)

THEbwana (42694) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316345)

It doesnt have to be like that. Come and join us in Switzerland - let someone else can pay for a change.

Grüss!

Re:Don't like it? (3, Insightful)

Aadain2001 (684036) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316189)

Yup, wouldn't want that CEO to not take is multimillion dollar bonus this year because being CEO is scary and risky. We'll just have to layoff another 100 people to pay for that bonus, but they were just the factory workers/engineers who actually built/designed our products. How have they helped the company anyway? Bunch of ingrates.

Working Hard (1)

spruce (454842) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316145)

Cheers to those like me that spent the entire day reading news and Slashdot, while officially "working hard."

Also, I've been ()*&&^%^^^^^^^...........

>404 - employee not found. The employee you are trying to reach is experiencing technical difficulties and cannot be reached. Please try again later or contact you administrator.

It doesn't matter. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316146)

America is too busypaying attention to fiction [slashdot.org] to be concerned about what's happening in reality.

The more you pay attention to one thing, the less you can pay attention to others. Read the comments on that link. Most of us are permanently out to lunch.

What's this I hear? (1)

TriCCer (591321) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316148)

Over time... pay? What's that?

No Overtime No Vacation (5, Insightful)

cubicledrone (681598) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316155)

...and eventually, no job.

Avarice, treachery, greed, lying, gluttony, cheating and petty office politics have become their own justification in the average workplace. Unless you "fit in," you will eventually be fired. In order to fit in, you must:

1) Do exactly as you are told: no more, no less.

2) Accept every lunch and meeting invitation

3) Reply enthusiastically to every e-mail, especially if it has a colorful signature.

4) Agree, even when the people you are agreeing with are wrong.

5) Never offer an opinion, or attempt to think about your job or the company.

The educations of an entire generation are being destroyed in the rush to below-average mediocrity.
Only the very few companies actually accomplish anything truly innovative. The rest simply exist, like tree moss, consuming resources and producing very little. This better get fixed, because this process is called "eating your own seedcorn."

Someday, hope will be born of something other than a business case.

Re:No Overtime No Vacation (0)

cubicledrone (681598) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316198)

Hmmm... why am I posting at '0?' I'm plus ten on moderation.

Yeah, sure... (1)

Cyno01 (573917) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316157)

But i've never heard of a case of Karoshi in america.

No surprise (-1, Interesting)

Quasar1999 (520073) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316158)

I know I'm going to get flamed big time for this, but it has to be said...

The reason Americans have to work more than the rest of the world is because they are less productive. If you were in Japan, I doubt you could sit at a desk for 8 hours and really only be coding for 5. In North America most companies let you get away with that, and then try and make up for the lack of productivity by forcing people to work longer hours... So 8 hours in the US = about 5 hours in the rest of the world.

I much rather work for 12 hours a day, than work hard for 8. You guys just don't know when to quit complaining!

Re:No surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316216)

Cite your source(s)??

Re:No surprise (1)

Typingsux (65623) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316225)

Nothing like generalized is there. What morons modded the parent up?

Re:No surprise (1)

Quasar1999 (520073) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316267)

Nothing like generalized is there. What morons modded the parent up?

It's an opinion, if you disagree with it, why don't you cite some examples to disprove, or at least support your reasoning? Look at the productivity of Japan, and the US in a field (any field where the two compete), and then look at the average hours worked, and number of workers, per unit delivered. I'll tell you this much, they ain't 1:1...

Re:No surprise (4, Interesting)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316269)

"The reason Americans have to work more than the rest of the world is because they are less productive."

Actually, just the opposite. Not only do Americans work more hours than all other industrialized nations (IIRC, only two other countries overall beat us), but we also tend to be more productive. For example, one of the big problems Ottawa has with NAFTA is that American workers are overall more productive hour-per-hour than Canadian workers, giving American businesses a competitive advantage over Canadian businesses.

"I doubt you could sit at a desk for 8 hours and really only be coding for 5"

What you're talking about happened during the so-called internet bubble. Welcome to 2003. And even if that were still true, how many US workers are coders?

Re:No surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316313)

citations plz.

Ummm...... (3, Insightful)

Mobster75 (234793) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316280)

I take it you haven't been to mainland Europe much?

I spend a lot of time in Italy and they don't work that hard, probably less productive than us lazy Americans. Now the thing is, jobs are hard as hell to find over there, and those with them got them through connections most likely and not performance. So what motivation do they have to actually bust their butt? (And let's not even get started on the government jobs there. oh boy....)

Now Italians, however, put more focus in their life on enjoying and living life (work to live; NOT live to work). So that no matter how crappy a job they have, they make time for family/friends and are reasonably happy.

Plus, pretty much almost everyone goes away during the month of August for a couple weeks at least. August 15 is a national holiday for the workers where NOTHING is open (oh, and the highways aren't built to handle the traffic they get, so enjoy the sweltering heat in the bumper-to-bumper)

So yeah, socialism has overrun much of Europe, but on an average person basis, your average mainland Europeaner is happier than his/her American counterpart.

Can't say I blame them for enjoying life.. I know I really don't like the ratrace here, which is why I try to summer there whenever I can.

My $0.02

Re:No surprise (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316290)

I used to work for Tivoli in Austin, TX. People do get pretty pinched when you spend a bunch of your day not working. Meanwhile the Tivoli UK office basically closes down for a three hour lunch while people go out and have a couple pints. Real pints, not the half-assed imitations we tend to get in the US (except, oddly enough, at Bennigan^WShenanigan's. They make a mean Monte Cristo too, but your arteries will hate you for mixing all them carbs with fat. Get the steak instead.) Then people come back and work for maybe an hour, and then go away.

Well, that's how it was then, anyway. I heard similar stories from the Italian office. Meanwhile in TX (a State known for partying) we had the beer bash every Friday, which is quite cool, but it's just another attempt to rope you into staying on the campus and ideally park you back at your desk. Especially if you've been hitting the Spaten Optimator.

Re:No surprise (1)

larryleung (664571) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316292)

I doubt its because were less productive (as movies/trash media may suggest). Its probably because companies are encouraged to keep head count low and put more responsability on fewer employees. It does make sense since its often more efficient to have 2 employees work 1.5x their hours (and pay them 1.5x more) than to hire 3 employees. Sucks for the employees though, but at least they're employed.

Have you been to japan? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316327)

I've seen many companies where unlike america they seem to employ 3 people when one would suffice, so most of the time they stand around doing nothing bored out of their gords.

If I look at staffing in a department store in a america. They usually have one person at a till if it's not busy, in Japan they would have three on that same till. Government offices here are even worse, like a 20 to 1 ratio of people doing nothing.

In Japan, they often work longer hours, I think because they actually do less work during the hours they are working.

In America, companies exist only to make profit for their shareholders. In Japan, many companies offer bonuses to their employees even when they are losing loads of cash.

Management doesn't get overtime anyway... (4, Insightful)

Lodragandraoidh (639696) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316177)

I work in 'management'. In fact all of the geeks and tech heads work in management. Who do I manage? Myself.

Why is this important? Because I don't get overtime at all, and haven't for the past 10 years. Last week I worked 4 days out of 5 0800 (8am) - 2300 (11pm). Will I get a dime more on my paycheck? No. Do I have the satisfaction of knowing that I helped get a major project up and running? Yep. Will I have a job at the end of the year? Probably.

Who is getting layed off in my company? Not 'management' (at least not the techy ones); we know too much, and are willing to work until our fingers bleed...tough luck if you can't keep up or don't have useful skills.

Just a fact of life. Of course I'm probably going to die before I'm 65 to a massive aneurism...

Re:Management doesn't get overtime anyway... (1)

Lodragandraoidh (639696) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316199)

edit my post above to read, "...all geeks and tech heads in my company work in management..."

Didn't mean to imply every geek works in management...

What's standard vacation there? (1)

MC68040 (462186) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316178)

I work as a network tech, around $2700 a month and I get three paid weeks of vacation per year, how does it look over there? /040.

And in Europe ... (4, Informative)

Macka (9388) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316186)


The proposal could also cause workers to work longer hours, since the Labor Department doesn't put any limit on the number of hours per week an employee must work, the group said in a study published on its Web site.
Amazing! This is the direct opposite to the EU, where the employers power to demand you worked more than 40 hours, were stripped several years ago. I remember being asked by a former employer to sign a waver to allow me to work more than 40 hours if necessary. Naturally, guaranteed overtime was part of the deal.

Macka (UK).

Re:And in Europe ... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316349)

Also in direct contrast to Europe, American unemployment rates are in the single digits.

Re:And in Europe ... (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316352)

IIRC, it wasn't too long ago that Paris mandated a 35-hour work week.

Hard at work, or hardly working? (3, Informative)

methangel (191461) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316188)

We are a very materialistic nation -- the majority of us work to buy the things we want. The countries that take a lot of vacation days are generally the countries where the latest SUV and 5 bedroom house is not a necessity. Here in America, we need our ... STUFF!

Even with that said, America ranks up there with Japan and China (both very large countries surrounded by technology...)

Japan 10 days
China 15 days
U.S. 0 days

Besides, we go to work and read Slashdot -- the same thing generally happens during a 'vacation' day. May as well make money while you reload?

Re:Hard at work, or hardly working? (2, Interesting)

cubicledrone (681598) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316253)

we need our ... STUFF!

Rent: $1400/month
Food: $500/month
Taxes: $1500/month
Auto: $250/month (not counting repairs or payments)

Basic no-frills subsistence: almost $4000/month or $25/hour

No medical insurance
No new clothes
No family
No entertainment
No vacations (even if work allowed them)

Whaddya get just out of college with a new degree? $40K a year? How long do you get to keep that job? Six weeks? Six months? Long enough to raise a family? Long enough to pay off a mortgage? Not likely. THAT is the problem.

Understand the info... (1)

SoupaFly (558227) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316324)

Japan 10 days
China 15 days
U.S. 0 days

The statistics you cited are the amount of vacation time guaranteed by the respective governments, not how much vacation time is actually taken.

The Japanese do work hard, but I think, generally speaking, America has a monopoly on the consumption culture. I mean, it was invented here.

Gonna Backfire (4, Insightful)

Sergeant Beavis (558225) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316191)

All this will serve to do is increase the power base of Unions. More and more workers will find that with Union help, they can negotiate to keep that overtime and employers will find themselves caught with having to negotiate Union contracts when before they wouldn't have to. As a Republican, I find this meddling in Labor laws to go against Conservative principles in that the Government should never get in the way of a guy making an honest buck. While these laws would not currently affect me (I'm salaried already) they will affect people like my little brother that busts his hump on a daily basis as a welder (as challening a trade as any IMO) to make the cash to keep take care of his family, let his wife be a stay at home Mom, and make a better life for his kids. That is a Conservative Philosophy and Bush is hurting it with this.

Gonna Backfire-Chitty chitty "corporate" bang bang (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316273)

"All this will serve to do is increase the power base of Unions. "

That reminds me. Does India have unions?

I don't mind working hard.... (2, Informative)

graveyhead (210996) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316196)

As long as it's either intellectually or monitarily fulfilling. I just wrote a long story about an all-hours project here [webhop.net] , and despite some pain, I have nothing but positive things to say about the whole experience. One thing I didn't note in the article is that later that year my salary made a HUGE jump... the hard work paid off.

3.3% of the data is good enough for me! (1, Insightful)

extrarice (212683) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316221)

[quote]
According to the EPI study, which used Labor Department and General Accounting Office data about worker pay and qualifications, the total effect of the three changes is to exclude at least 8.025 million workers from overtime -- and probably more, the study said, since the EPI only looked at 78 of the 257 "white collar" occupations identified by the Labor Department.
[/quote]

So, the EPI looked at only 3.3% (257 / 78) of the facts and came up with this doom and gloom proclimation?

What about the rest of the stats from the Labor Dept and GAO? Don't you think they would have an impact on the figures? It doesn't matter if the results would further prove their point or not. They didn't consider all the facts.

Re:3.3% of the data is good enough for me! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316320)

Nice math, dude.

Vacation vs burnout? (5, Insightful)

thogard (43403) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316227)

The US also has one of the highest rates of burnout in the world. Japan who was 2nd lowest in the chart also has the same problem.

When will American compaines understand that having their workers take acations is good for the company. People who take time off, do more effecent work. It like the recent studies that show once workers start putting in more hours their productivity can increase to about 10 hours a day but an office worker that is doing 12 hr days less productive than when they were doing 8 hour days since they spend so much work time doing other things.

It will be interesting to see what happens in New Zealand. Its my understanding that they used to have a European model for holiday time but have recently removed some of thouse requirements so they are more like the US model. Maybe that explains why at least 50% of their labor pool is in Australia.

I've currently have 34.5 unused vacation days. Over the next year, I'll collect 20 more. I think its time for a round the world trip.

Re:Vacation vs burnout? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316350)

Maybe that explains why France has a mandatory 35 hour work week and 18% unemployment. Or Germany with a mandatory 40 hour work week and 13% unemployment.

strong dollar (1, Troll)

ramzak2k (596734) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316228)

could this be because the strong dollar ?
The people are having to work a lot to stay competitive with the international markets and some more to balance the exchange rate of the dollar. Unless the dollar weakens i dont see this trend changing.

Re:strong dollar (1)

larryleung (664571) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316335)

I don't think currency effects make a significant difference. Its more of a cultural thing. (BTW the dollar has weakened just recently.)

I don't mind working longer hours, as long as (2, Interesting)

dh003i (203189) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316229)

I'm justly compensated.

Now, 1.5 times salary is a very nice, very generous, compensation for overtime. But I'd hardly say that anything less is an injustice.

I'd say that as long as you get paid at least in direct proportion to how many hours you work, it's just.

Unpaid overtime (1)

Erick the Red (684990) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316230)

changes to the overtime laws will eliminate overtime pay for many workers.

With so many ask slashdot questions that are basically "my boss expects me to work 12 hours a day with no compensation, what should I do?", things can't get too much worse.

Hurry up and let the DoJ what you think. (4, Informative)

mikeophile (647318) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316236)

The US Department of Labor is only accepting public comment on the changes to the FLSA until this Monday.

Email [mailto] them while you can. Or fax them at this number (202) 693-1432.

If you work in the IT industry at all, this promises to remove any right you have to overtime pay.

What is this getting paid for overtime rumor? (1)

mcguyver (589810) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316260)

...I think there is an unwritten rule in engineering, at least in the private sector, stating ye shall work your arse off and not receive overtime pay.

Not as bad as it seems (3, Insightful)

NetDanzr (619387) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316284)

I'm one of those poor guys who have chosen a profession in the financial world. For the first year after college, I worked an average of 75 hours per week, and being on an anual wage, I gign't get paid for the extra hours. Over time, the work load decreased as I became more efficient and got promoted. At my fifth year with the company, I'm at 40 hours per week, and no vacation. At least no vacation on paper, but I know that in 95% of cases, I get as many days off as I want to (within reason) if I ask my boss. Add to it paid sick days, and you get a whole different picture.

What these statistics measure is the amount of vacation people are entitled to by theirwork contracts, not the amount of vacation they actually take. Having worked both in Europe and the US, I am aware that even so Europeans get much more vacation, but the approach to it is much more regulated than in the US. Here, it's enough to ask the boss who gives his approval, in most companies I worked for or had friends working for. In Europe, you need to fill an application, and due to the amount of vacation for everyone, the management must carefully balance when to award a vacation to a particular worker. I personally prefer the US approach...

Another thing to take into account is what this hard work gets the country. Because of so much work and overtime, American workers are the most productive in the world. Cut this productivity by 20%, and you automatically increase the variable cost for a product by 20%. Legislate vacation time, and everything will become more expensive, the foreign trade deficit worsens, the dollar devaluates and everything will become even more expensive. True, we work hard, but our hard work reflects in the low product prices and high standard of living.

Coincidence (2, Informative)

osgeek (239988) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316291)

I was actually discussing this issue today with some friends of mine from Europe. The consensus was that yes, Americans work harder, but they're also rewarded more for doing so by being allowed easier upward mobility and better value for the money they earn.

Work hard and smart in the US, and you'll find yourself retiring in your forties. The money that you make in a day will buy you more clothing, gasoline, food, etc., than most other places in the world.

As with anything in life, it's a trade-off. I have friends who take it easy at work. They come in late, leave early, etc. They're enjoying their lives, so to speak, but they'll have that same routine until they're all 65 (or older, if Social Security falls apart). Not me, bud. I'm working my ass off, and I'll probably retire within the next five years (before I'm 40).

If you don't like it, you can always move to somewhere more suitable to your work ethic, I guess. Personally, I'd move to Thailand. :)

OK.... Is this Balanced? (2, Interesting)

weston (16146) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316326)

The proposed changes, which were first introduced in March, will be implemented by the Labor Department after a "public comment" period, which expires on Monday.

Their implementation is already a foregone conclusion? Isn't the purpose of the public comment period to evaluate?

But...

The good news is that the regulations would raise that cut-off amount to $425 a week -- about $22,100 per year -- actually adding about 1.3 million lower-wage workers to the ranks of people eligible for overtime, according to the Labor Department.

All right. So more super-low wage workers -- we're talking people making under $10/hr here -- will be guaranteed overtime. That's a very, very good thing.

For one thing, many workers earning a salary of more than $65,000 a year will now be excluded from overtime -- at least 1.3 million workers, according to the EPI study.

And it's really hard for me to feel too sorry for those making $65,000+. Yeah, I know, it's not easy to support a family of 6 on...

But...

n another example, "executives" ineligible for overtime, according to the old rules, were people who hired and fired workers, set wages and assigned work. The new rules broaden the definition of "executives" to include any workers who occasionally supervise other workers, even if they spend most of their time doing manual labor.

This kind of change is insane. Meanwhile, real execs are collecting bonuses and kickbacks in record amounts.

"Once employers are not required to pay for overtime work, they will schedule more of it," the study said.

Exactly. I'd like to request a few things from my government and future employers while we're at it:

  • A ceiling for my utility bills. Once I pay a certain amount of money for electricity in a month, I don't want to pay a cent more. Same thing for phone and water.
  • Cell phone bill, too.
  • How about a ceiling on my taxes?
  • Hey, unlimited free food from the cafeteria?


Oh. What's that? You mean you can't afford to give out and unlimited amount of finite resources at a fixed cost?

Yeah. Me too.

"Salaried, Exempt" (3, Funny)

bryanp (160522) | more than 11 years ago | (#6316330)

... is the official term. The standard joke at my place of employment is "Yeah, it means you're exempt from having a life."

There's a reason. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6316333)

Americans are working harder as their country needs more and more money to pay the military, so they can grab oil from Iraq and live thinking their president is anti-terrorist.

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