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Intel PAT Compared On 865PE Boards

CowboyNeal posted more than 11 years ago | from the motherboard-go-round dept.

Intel 117

Xaley writes "There is roundup at VR-Zone on several 865PE boards which came equipped with Intel PAT feature and definitely consumers will be happy to purchase these boards without paying a premium price that Intel has charged for their 875P chipset. A typical 865PE board costs around $150 and a 875P board costs around $200-250 so it is a cost savings of $100. Of course, Intel won't be too happy about it since sales of their 875P chipsets will be affected but there is no stopping for motherboard manufacturers from adding in the PAT feature into their 865PE boards now."

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PAT? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319378)

Who's PAT? Is it a guy or a girl, who cares?

33rd POST! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319379)

Moving on up!

?Slow Is VA in TRUBEL? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319404)

?Slow Is VA in TRUBEL?

Why all the LOSERS come out today (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319706)

Why all the LOSERS come out today I don't want to now.

The PAT is overrated (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319383)

Go for two, why use a fag kicker for a PAT?

You're a SODOMIST! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319389)

You sound like him.

What the fuck is PAT (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319386)

Why should I read the article and why should I give a shit?

Free Market (0)

rf0 (159958) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319388)

Can't complain at more bang for buck. Now if only they made Xeons nice and cheap I would have a cluster of those :)

Sorry

Rus

Re:Free Market (1)

mnemonic_ (164550) | more than 11 years ago | (#6320203)

Xeon? Bah. Get some Opteron 240s for $290 each.

Re:Free Market (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6320370)

can anyone tell me what in the fuck is PAT.. nevermind if the orginal poster can't type it out for me then I'll just ignore what the hell this story was about.
Gonna get my GHT at YIO before SIOFE. NAWI RTSA.

doo doo doo du.. can't touch this... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319391)

no stopping pat now...

Pat = the 350 shemale/he-she/sheman/hewoman behemoth of motherboards...

Goatse is dead! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319395)

But it's still gay! [goatse.cx]

It's PAT (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319396)

A lot of people say, "What's that?"

It's PAT.

Re:It's PAT (2, Funny)

TheFrood (163934) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319691)

A lot of people say, "What's that?"

It's PAT.


Just wanted to let you know at least one person got the joke.

Explanation of joke. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6321128)

I didn't, so it obviously wasn't a very good joke. Care to enlighten us?

Ugh. (4, Informative)

be-fan (61476) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319400)

Intel should stop reusing acronyms. PAT = Page Attribute Table, a feature in PIII+ processors that helps manage caching of memory ranges.

...stop reusing acronyms (2, Insightful)

throughthewire (675776) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319449)

I read it as Port Address Translation. Expansion of acronyms would be helpful in the original post. -Chuck

Re:Ugh. (4, Informative)

InnovativeCX (538638) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319489)

The above description was slightly vague, so I went out and did a googling for those that would like a little more info. A couple USENET [google.com] posts [google.com] turned up the following:

This feature provides more flexible interface allowing to setup various memory cache modes on a page-by-page bases. It is much easier to program than MTRRs
and does not suffer from their size/alignment limitations.

and

The Page Attribute Table (PAT) is an extension to the x86 page table format that lets you enable Write Combining on a per-page basis. Details can be found in chapter 9.13 of the Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 3
(System Programming).

Re:Ugh. (0)

Greger47 (516305) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319593)

Oh, I'm sure PZF and JLQ are both free. Now lets just find three maketing speak words that fits...

Re:Ugh. (1)

deadsaijinx* (637410) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319712)

agreed, but all this means is Performance Accelorated Technology. To me, that just means marketing hype.

Re:Ugh. (2, Interesting)

Beryllium Sphere(tm) (193358) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319896)

Are you suffering from TOS?

(TLA Overload Syndrome).

"Our ATM backbone provides the bandwidth to improve the legibility of a bank's ATM display by downloading either Truetype or ATM fonts".

Re:Ugh. (1)

azaze1 (597798) | more than 11 years ago | (#6320232)

Hello (P)artition (A)llocation (T)able too!

Blah blah blah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319401)

I'm still sick over paying $2000 for my 486, not including monitor.

Re:Blah blah blah (1)

Oswald (235719) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319492)

Hell, everybody did that. My buddy's Gateway still lives as my LRP router. That massive 500mb hard drive just sits there, wasted.

Re:Blah blah blah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319721)

Hell, I paid more than that for mine....

On the other hand, it STILL WORKS... router and mail server for my house.

Can't say the same for the Pentiums and Macs I've gone through (2 PCs, a Centris 610, a Bondi Blue iMac).

DON'T MAKE EM LIKE THEY USED TO!

No stopping? (2, Informative)

Quixote (154172) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319403)

Don't count Chipzilla [intel.com] to just roll over and play dead. They have already warned [theinquirer.net] MoBo manufacturers not to turn the i865 into the i875. I wonder how many will heed the warning? Its not as if there are major alternatives out there (note, I said "major").

Re:No stopping? (1)

SuperBanana (662181) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319431)

Don't count Chipzilla to just roll over and play dead. They have already warned MoBo manufacturers not to turn the i865 into the i875. I wonder how many will heed the warning? Its not as if there are major alternatives out there (note, I said "major").

Don't count mObO manufacturers to just roll over and play dead. They have already warned Chipzilla not to be pissy about them turning the i865 into the i875. It's not as if there isn't another processor out there(note, I said "AMD").

Re:No stopping? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6321153)

There are major questions about stability with trying to run an i865 as an i875. When MoBo manufacturers release boards with intel chipsets that are unstable because they are not following the rules, it looks bad for intel. They have a vested interest in making the MoBo makers follow the specifications.

Funniest Quote Award (3, Funny)

SuperBanana (662181) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319406)

Funniest quote from the whole article:

There are so many good marketing specs thrown into 875P that make the hardware enthusiasts to go after it and even prepare to pay a premium for it.

I take back all those nasty comments about hole-in-the-wall-2-guys-in-a-dorm-room-'review' sites. Well, okay, not all of them- even this guy has some SERIOUS grammar problems :-)

Re:Funniest Quote Award (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319451)

"I take back all those nasty comments about hole-in-the-wall-2-guys-in-a-dorm-room-'review' sites."
Something about that quote just seems so wrong. But yet so right.

Re:Funniest Quote Award (1)

mellonhead (137423) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319474)

The author lists his residence as Singapore. I'm guessing English is not his first language.

Re:Funniest Quote Award (2, Insightful)

bark (582535) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319541)

In Singapore, English in one of the official languages. It is taught to kindergarden kids. Don't think that just because a person is in Asia that English should not be his/her first language.

Quote huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319818)

Hmm, I'd rather not start thinking about 2 guys and a hole in the wall... college or not.

This isn't nearly as innovative (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319408)

as the Intel ASS feature. I have tried the ASS and it is slick. Way to go for Intel putting more ASS on their motherboards.

How is this a troll you dullard cock smack (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319429)

Now that was a troll. Glad I could use up your mod points shithead. Go back to wanking off to the stoned Apple chick.

use of periods overrated (-1, Offtopic)

Hubert_Shrump (256081) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319415)

also cheap is to not use expensive periods in story writeup adds breathless effect like chips are more exciting than god exclamation point

Or just buy an AMD-based board (4, Informative)

Brian Stretch (5304) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319421)

since AMD doesn't harrass/sue third-party chipset suppliers (like VIA) so no one can get away with playing games like Intel is doing with PAT. I prefer nVidia nForce2 chipset boards these days. YMMV.

Re:Or just buy an AMD-based board (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319621)

It's called quality control, VIA puts out unreliable garbage.

Re:Or just buy an AMD-based board (1, Offtopic)

eyeye (653962) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319913)

From the parents sig..

MEMRI [memri.org] translates Middle Eastern news and commentary into English.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/s to ry/0,7792,773258,00.html

Its a propaganda machine, along with the ADL.

Re:Or just buy an AMD-based board (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319930)

fixed link [guardian.co.uk]

Re:Or just buy an AMD-based board (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6320041)

how is translating what the arabs really say (when they're not providing sound bites to the western media) propoganda? pointing out what they're saying certainly works against them, but it's their own damn fault for saying "we love peace" in english and "we will watch the blood of america and the jews flow from their eyes as we rape their women" in arabic.

Because that isn't what their doing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6320337)

Below is the article that the grandparent post linked to. The website is run by former Israeli military intelligence personel. Gee, do you think they might be a little biased in the stories they select to translate? Anyway, the Guardian article:
Selective Memri

Brian Whitaker investigates whether the 'independent' media institute that translates the Arabic newspapers is quite what it seems

Monday August 12, 2002

For some time now, I have been receiving small gifts from a generous institute in the United States. The gifts are high-quality translations of articles from Arabic newspapers which the institute sends to me by email every few days, entirely free-of-charge.

The emails also go to politicians and academics, as well as to lots of other journalists. The stories they contain are usually interesting.

Whenever I get an email from the institute, several of my Guardian colleagues receive one too and regularly forward their copies to me - sometimes with a note suggesting that I might like to check out the story and write about it.

If the note happens to come from a more senior colleague, I'm left feeling that I really ought to write about it. One example last week was a couple of paragraphs translated by the institute, in which a former doctor in the Iraqi army claimed that Saddam Hussein had personally given orders to amputate the ears of military deserters.

The organisation that makes these translations and sends them out is the Middle East Media Research Institute (Memri), based in Washington but with recently-opened offices in London, Berlin and Jerusalem.

Its work is subsidised by US taxpayers because as an "independent, non-partisan, non-profit" organisation, it has tax-deductible status under American law.

Memri's purpose, according to its website, is to bridge the language gap between the west - where few speak Arabic - and the Middle East, by "providing timely translations of Arabic, Farsi, and Hebrew media".

Despite these high-minded statements, several things make me uneasy whenever I'm asked to look at a story circulated by Memri. First of all, it's a rather mysterious organisation. Its website does not give the names of any people to contact, not even an office address.

The reason for this secrecy, according to a former employee, is that "they don't want suicide bombers walking through the door on Monday morning" (Washington Times, June 20).

This strikes me as a somewhat over-the-top precaution for an institute that simply wants to break down east-west language barriers.

The second thing that makes me uneasy is that the stories selected by Memri for translation follow a familiar pattern: either they reflect badly on the character of Arabs or they in some way further the political agenda of Israel. I am not alone in this unease.

Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations told the Washington Times: "Memri's intent is to find the worst possible quotes from the Muslim world and disseminate them as widely as possible."

Memri might, of course, argue that it is seeking to encourage moderation by highlighting the blatant examples of intolerance and extremism. But if so, one would expect it - for the sake of non-partisanship - to publicise extremist articles in the Hebrew media too.

Although Memri claims that it does provide translations from Hebrew media, I can't recall receiving any.

Evidence from Memri's website also casts doubt on its non-partisan status. Besides supporting liberal democracy, civil society, and the free market, the institute also emphasises "the continuing relevance of Zionism to the Jewish people and to the state of Israel".

That is what its website used to say, but the words about Zionism have now been deleted. The original page, however, can still be found in internet archives.

The reason for Memri's air of secrecy becomes clearer when we look at the people behind it. The co-founder and president of Memri, and the registered owner of its website, is an Israeli called Yigal Carmon.

Mr - or rather, Colonel - Carmon spent 22 years in Israeli military intelligence and later served as counter-terrorism adviser to two Israeli prime ministers, Yitzhak Shamir and Yitzhak Rabin.

Retrieving another now-deleted page from the archives of Memri's website also throws up a list of its staff. Of the six people named, three - including Col Carmon - are described as having worked for Israeli intelligence.

Among the other three, one served in the Israeli army's Northern Command Ordnance Corps, one has an academic background, and the sixth is a former stand-up comedian.

Col Carmon's co-founder at Memri is Meyrav Wurmser, who is also director of the centre for Middle East policy at the Indianapolis-based Hudson Institute, which bills itself as "America's premier source of applied research on enduring policy challenges".

The ubiquitous Richard Perle, chairman of the Pentagon's defence policy board, recently joined Hudson's board of trustees.

Ms Wurmser is the author of an academic paper entitled Can Israel Survive Post-Zionism? in which she argues that leftwing Israeli intellectuals pose "more than a passing threat" to the state of Israel, undermining its soul and reducing its will for self-defence.

In addition, Ms Wurmser is a highly qualified, internationally recognised, inspiring and knowledgeable speaker on the Middle East whose presence would make any "event, radio or television show a unique one" - according to Benador Associates, a public relations company which touts her services.

Nobody, so far as I know, disputes the general accuracy of Memri's translations but there are other reasons to be concerned about its output.

The email it circulated last week about Saddam Hussein ordering people's ears to be cut off was an extract from a longer article in the pan-Arab newspaper, al-Hayat, by Adil Awadh who claimed to have first-hand knowledge of it.

It was the sort of tale about Iraqi brutality that newspapers would happily reprint without checking, especially in the current atmosphere of war fever. It may well be true, but it needs to be treated with a little circumspection.

Mr Awadh is not exactly an independent figure. He is, or at least was, a member of the Iraqi National Accord, an exiled Iraqi opposition group backed by the US - and neither al-Hayat nor Memri mentioned this.

Also, Mr Awadh's allegation first came to light some four years ago, when he had a strong personal reason for making it. According to a Washington Post report in 1998, the amputation claim formed part of his application for political asylum in the United States.

At the time, he was one of six Iraqis under arrest in the US as suspected terrorists or Iraqi intelligence agents, and he was trying to show that the Americans had made a mistake.

Earlier this year, Memri scored two significant propaganda successes against Saudi Arabia. The first was its translation of an article from al-Riyadh newspaper in which a columnist wrote that Jews use the blood of Christian or Muslim children in pastries for the Purim religious festival.

The writer, a university teacher, was apparently relying on an anti-semitic myth that dates back to the middle ages. What this demonstrated, more than anything, was the ignorance of many Arabs - even those highly educated - about Judaism and Israel, and their readiness to believe such ridiculous stories.

But Memri claimed al-Riyadh was a Saudi "government newspaper" - in fact it's privately owned - implying that the article had some form of official approval.

Al-Riyadh's editor said he had not seen the article before publication because he had been abroad. He apologised without hesitation and sacked his columnist, but by then the damage had been done.

Memri's next success came a month later when Saudi Arabia's ambassador to London wrote a poem entitled The Martyrs - about a young woman suicide bomber - which was published in al-Hayat newspaper.

Memri sent out translated extracts from the poem, which it described as "praising suicide bombers". Whether that was the poem's real message is a matter of interpretation. It could, perhaps more plausibly, be read as condemning the political ineffectiveness of Arab leaders, but Memri's interpretation was reported, almost without question, by the western media.

These incidents involving Saudi Arabia should not be viewed in isolation. They are part of building a case against the kingdom and persuading the United States to treat it as an enemy, rather than an ally.

It's a campaign that the Israeli government and American neo-conservatives have been pushing since early this year - one aspect of which was the bizarre anti-Saudi briefing at the Pentagon, hosted last month by Richard Perle.

To anyone who reads Arabic newspapers regularly, it should be obvious that the items highlighted by Memri are those that suit its agenda and are not representative of the newspapers' content as a whole.

The danger is that many of the senators, congressmen and "opinion formers" who don't read Arabic but receive Memri's emails may get the idea that these extreme examples are not only truly representative but also reflect the policies of Arab governments.

Memri's Col Carmon seems eager to encourage them in that belief. In Washington last April, in testimony to the House committee on international relations, he portrayed the Arab media as part of a wide-scale system of government-sponsored indoctrination.

"The controlled media of the Arab governments conveys hatred of the west, and in particular, of the United States," he said. "Prior to September 11, one could frequently find articles which openly supported, or even called for, terrorist attacks against the United States ...

"The United States is sometimes compared to Nazi Germany, President Bush to Hitler, Guantanamo to Auschwitz," he said.

In the case of the al-Jazeera satellite channel, he added, "the overwhelming majority of guests and callers are typically anti-American and anti-semitic".

Unfortunately, it is on the basis of such sweeping generalisations that much of American foreign policy is built these days.

As far as relations between the west and the Arab world are concerned, language is a barrier that perpetuates ignorance and can easily foster misunderstanding.

All it takes is a small but active group of Israelis to exploit that barrier for their own ends and start changing western perceptions of Arabs for the worse.

It is not difficult to see what Arabs might do to counter that. A group of Arab media companies could get together and publish translations of articles that more accurately reflect the content of their newspapers.

It would certainly not be beyond their means. But, as usual, they may prefer to sit back and grumble about the machinations of Israeli intelligence veterans.

The following correction was printed in the Guardian's Corrections and Clarifications column, Wednesday August 21 2002

In an article headed Atrocity stories regain currency, page 13, August 8, and in an article headed Selective Memri on the Guardian website, we referred to Dr Adil Awadh, an Iraqi doctor who alleged that Saddam Hussein had ordered doctors to amputate the ears of soldiers who deserted. Dr Awadh has asked us to make it clear that he has no connection with Memri (Middle East Media Research Institute), and that he did not authorise its translation of parts of an article by him. He is no longer a member of the Iraqi National Accord (INA). He is an independent member of the Iraqi National Congress (INC). His reference to orders by Saddam Hussein to cut off the ears of deserters has been supported by evidence from other sources.

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2003

Even if Intel succeeds... (3, Insightful)

VCAGuy (660954) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319430)

...what'll stop the overclockers/enthusiasts from turning on PAT? Won't that still eat into their sales of 875P based boards? Somehow, the fear of voiding our warranty never enters the equation...so what's the deterrent?

Re:Even if Intel succeeds... (1)

Detritus (11846) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319625)

I doubt that Intel gives a damn about "overclockers/enthusiasts". They are a tiny part of the computer market. They may be more concerned about motherboard and computer vendors who sell computers with unsupported chipset configurations.

HELP NEEDED!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319435)

I need your advice now. Seriously. Suppose someone has invented something that virtually _every single_ computer user would buy if it was available in stores. How do I make sure I will get the profit and that nobody steals my idea if I go and present it to someone who has money to start manufacturing it?

Re:HELP NEEDED!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319453)

It's called patent, genius.

Re:HELP NEEDED!!! (1)

Ath (643782) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319855)

Have them sign an NDA before you show it to them. But you will want a patent if it is a patentable invention.

PAT Motherboard (0, Offtopic)

realcoolguy425 (587426) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319444)

Is that a Bannana in your PCI slot, or are you just happy to see me?

So maybe I'm dumb and lazy (1)

AlinuxNCSU (589202) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319464)

But would anyone be interested in defining PAT so that the ignorant among us can decide if this story is interesting?

(Yeah yeah, rtfa. I will when I find out what PAT is, and then if I decide it's useful. ;-) )

Re:So maybe I'm dumb and lazy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319833)

I'd like the ability in slashcode to add my own notes to users, so it shows up beside their posts.

So your posts would show up like this:

AlinuxNCSU (589202) -Dumb and Lazy- on Saturday June 28, @11:31AM (#6319464)

I should get working on it. Naw, too dumb and lazy.

Re:So maybe I'm dumb and lazy (1)

Tancred (3904) | more than 11 years ago | (#6320039)

That's one of my pet peeves. Slashdot tends to do that a lot - people throw out acronyms from specialized fields and assume everyone knows what they're talking about. To me, PAT is a Point After Touchdown.

Btw, I don't think you're lazy, or no more than most. Checking Slashdot is a good way to cover lots of interesting topics without having to go look at dozens of other sites. If you've got to go read the article to even know what the subject is, well that's just annoying.

For those that were wondering... (5, Informative)

JRHelgeson (576325) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319466)

PAT=Performance Acceleration Technology
The 875P Canterwood chipset with PAT supposedly provides a 5-7% performance improvement over 865 chipset.

WOO HOO!

TMFA's! When will we start patenting acronyms?
PAT=
Port Address Translation
Page Attribute Table
and now Performance Acceleration Technology

And now... (0)

I start fires (679298) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319617)

PAT=Patented Acronym Technology

Re:For those that were wondering... (3, Informative)

lmfr (567586) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319620)

And for those wondering how to activate it in 865PE, there's an article [tomshardware.com] at Tom's Hardware.

Re:For those that were wondering... (1)

cheezedawg (413482) | more than 11 years ago | (#6321100)

I really wouldn't recommend buying one of these Asus boards where they hacked the 865.

As I understand it, there are 2 signals from the CPU to the northbridge that dictate what the FSB frequency is. The 875 northbridge takes these signals, and if they show that the FSB is 800MHz then PAT is enabled. The 865 northbridge is configured to disable PAT with an 800 MHz FSB.

Now, what Asus has done is to hijack these 2 signals coming from the CPU, and always tell the northbridge that the FSB is 533 MHz. This allows them to enable the PAT, and to compensate for the lower FSB setting, they jack up the clock chip on the board and overclock the northbridge. The result is that the entire northbridge is running way out of spec, and there are probably tons of stability issues that will surface over time. Intel spends A LOT of money validating the supported configurations, and when a vendor is overclocking a chip by 50%, all bets are off.

I don't think its worth it for a 5% increase in memory performance.

Re:For those that were wondering... (1)

lmfr (567586) | more than 11 years ago | (#6321143)

Well, it's not compulsory to use their version of PAT. It's enabled or disabled in the BIOS. I don't recall the default.

Besides, don't you think preaching against overclocking doesn't suit most users of this forum? :)

Re:For those that were wondering... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6320131)

I hear some old racist republican just died. It's always sad when that happens I feel.

Re:For those that were wondering... (1)

David McBride (183571) | more than 11 years ago | (#6320879)

Yup, that's NDAs for you.

[NDA: Non-Deterministic Abbreviation]

Re:For those that were wondering... (1)

sean23007 (143364) | more than 11 years ago | (#6320927)

Point After Touchdown

Expand your acronyms, people! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319476)

The first person to explain exactly what the hell PAT is will get modded up to (+5, Informative).

What PAT Really is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319507)

Do not listen to the fools who think it's a 5-7% boost in blah blah blah... It's obviously a TV show that you watch and attempt the entire 1 season it's on, to determine whether or not that freak on the tv is a guy or a girl... and they'll keep messing with you, over and over again, until you can't tell the difference from guys and girls. Then you are really messed up, so then you have to get therapy like I did. Pat is merely a conspiricy to increase the number of patients in the looney bins!

I leave you with this one warning: Do not buy a PAT motherboard unless you're sure it's a guy or a girl! (or the peoples in the white clothes will take you to the happy fun land, where the walls are soft, and the food is softer...)

Re:Expand your acronyms, people! (1)

jfowlie (98895) | more than 11 years ago | (#6320872)

From www.vr-zone.com [vr-zone.com]

Intel 875P MCH is built on the FCBGA package that allows Dual Channel 4 layers PCB and is 37.5mm2 in size and has 932 pins count. Interestingly, 875P and 865P/PE/G share the same core and the only difference is that 875P falls on the right side of the manufacturing curve.

Intel has specially selected the top quality chips that falls on the right side and separate from the rest and ran through a series of comprehensive tests to ensure robust operation for the 875P chipsets. As for the rest, they would be branded as Springdale chipsets and sold off cheaper. The chipset timings of the 875P are improved to allow faster memory access and lower latency therefore we can expect 875P to be faster than 865PE/G.

and... (1)

jfowlie (98895) | more than 11 years ago | (#6320881)

From www.xbitlabs.com [xbitlabs.com]

This one gives more of a question-and-answer format to PAT.

Is PAT even worth it? (1)

mattgarnsey (660568) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319480)

from what i've seen (tomshardware et al), 875's w/ PAT were only marginally out performing the 865's anyway.

has anyone seen where this stuff significantly inproves performance?

nonetheless, i'm waiting for the P5/Prescott before upgrading the ol' PC anyway...

Re:Is PAT even worth it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319807)

Prescott will NOT be P5. It's still a P4.

Re:Is PAT even worth it? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6321043)

from what i've seen (tomshardware et al), 875's w/ PAT were only marginally out performing the 865's anyway.

Your geek liscence has been revoked, sorry. Performance at any cost is rule #1 in the GeekDex.

HOLY SHIT, JUST TESTING! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319518)

This is a test.

This is only a test.

You may safely ignore this comment...

Re:HOLY SHIT, JUST TESTING! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6320195)

ok.

Prices (4, Informative)

MC68040 (462186) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319536)

200-250 is not correct in many cases for the P boards, I just got a MSI 875P Neo board for around 150 and it has all the goodies like SATA and got excellent test results.

Re:Prices (1)

KingDaveRa (620784) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319682)

I recently bought the MSI Neo2-FISR (865 chipset) and its a really solid board. I'm quite impressed with it. Never thought I'd end up with an MSI board....

Stranger things have happened I suppose!

Re:Prices (1)

mnemonic_ (164550) | more than 11 years ago | (#6320175)

Yes, the story author's prices were about $50-$100 above what they actually cost when purchased from a reasonable retailed (i.e. newegg, gameve etc.). The Abit IC7, regarded as one of the top i875 boards, can be found for $135. The IS7, an excellent i865 mobo can be found for about $100.

P.S. This isn't a troll, but it seems that as much as most slashdotters know about linux, coding, and the like, they often seem to be a bit off on computer hardware. Of course they're by all means computer-literate, but their hardware knowledge seems a bit out of date or blended with assumption.

Re:Prices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6320314)

"P.S. This isn't a troll, but it seems that as much as most slashdotters know about linux, coding, and the like, they often seem to be a bit off on computer hardware. Of course they're by all means computer-literate, but their hardware knowledge seems a bit out of date or blended with assumption."

I'd strongly disagree there. Most /.ers and especially linux users are extremely hardware savvy. They are the ones always ripping apart their PC's and building all sorts of projects. Linux users as a group are extremely well versed with PC hardware because unlike Windows users they don't get support from hardware manus. Many times you HAVE to learn hardware just so you can get it working.

You seem to be basing your opinion on either the submitter or the editors hardware knowledge, which would be an inaccurate gauge.

I'd put an average linux user up against the user of any other OS anyday of the week. It simply wouldn't be a contest. The average linux user usually knows PC hardware inside and out and at a much deeper level then a Windows or OS X user. It goes with the territory.

Re:Prices (1)

MC68040 (462186) | more than 11 years ago | (#6320709)

Yea, although you should be aware that the 875P NEO FISR-2 got the best benchmark results in a recent toms hardware roundup =).

IS THIS ANNOYING, OR WHAT? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319543)

This is a test.

This is only a test.

You may safely ignore this comment...

3886c03149f77913ca3142ef7f40f1ce9df811bc0ec3cd1b 8c e8e8f1bab30be4bb41d7ba746e551cbae52d2aaab4f6257541 1316410a3d64ce675e74ce8ffb8b749262e106e34e0992f5ed ee8fc62ae1177a60cf6f66d63873a84f6202112b92922dcfdc c5792cd2364cbcce9b00c96e

Intel could've easily solved this "problem" (1)

StandardCell (589682) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319555)

What Intel should have done is to have "PAT" disabled through a physically inaccessable method, such as a different IC package, bondout (though this is probably flip-chip) or an on-chip fuse burnt at test.

Re:Intel could've easily solved this "problem" (2, Informative)

barureddy (314276) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319848)

Most of the 865 chips are basically rejected 875 chips. Intel didn't want to waste the chips so they came up with the idea of just renaming them 865 and sell them as lower performing chips.

Your right in that intel should have done something to permanently disable the chips.

Re:Intel could've easily solved this "problem" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319947)

They did on Bus frequencies below 800. Future versions of the chipset will have the PAT circuit blown at all frequencies.

Re:Intel could've easily solved this "problem" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6320270)

Most of the 865 chips are basically rejected 875 chips.

I know someone who worked on the 875 chipset and he says the only difference between the 875 and the 865 is the packaging. There are no binsplits involved.

IS THIS ANNOYING, OR WHAT? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319573)

This is a test.

This is only a test.

You may safely ignore this comment...

e7c3fb5390c74909db1bb3559b24007a4e857a0ea2f99357 e1 6f6223d55a14af3cafc2c717734059648336b59f4d4db1a3f0 bf3bab7b197f173b2fc81a275eae91d974a31bb21f91b2ea85 483d0c7e1469a6ed9a81b971e9b4f594452905728522adc7ca fefbc46b78e2b34b9ebc75a3ad338cd1d1c7547cc5ce21bf99 0267d6a4c00f058d5bc701f2ef2dc3d8cfe76af77216877e47 dc6b39283028047f0122f1e14547a7e65bebb5646289906380 85e8520871e749a7ea9fb362d1805f28be9b425b229521a86a 612a40a846e1c76e8ea202ee87cb6f11ff8cd97110477d2064 6eb2eb5c0ee61414cc87dd5c140d0f1ab5aada2cb986e11015 afe596b6a57abb5de7558f0e9b9764cdc290d57f1444b7be11 f1c3a8aba967e0a54a2fb2bd21caeed832ab664f42bc7ebe8a 0ea0edc697fd09fc2eb8eefa24c6b551f68ff559

Even Buddha is laughing at this... (2, Interesting)

rmdyer (267137) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319574)

"There is a constant pressure from Intel to advise motherboard manufacturers not to offer PAT into their 865PE boards but on the other hand, there is a considerable amount of pressure from consumers demanding PAT in their 865PE boards. There is a great dilemma faced by the motherboard manufacturers here whether to include the PAT feature or not. However to keep the sales going, it is advisable add in PAT into their 865PE boards to keep the consumers happy."

All of this worry over $100 bucks difference? That amounts to about 1 days work for most of us. We are more lazy than I ever suspected! Arguably, this is what leads to early psychosis. ;-)

+2 cents.

If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him. (2, Insightful)

Eevee (535658) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319638)

It may be less than a day's work difference in price, but that doesn't mean it's insignificant. Imagine if someone offered to sell you a candybar for $100. Which would you say: "Gee, that's less than a day's pay." or "You've got to be kidding."

If you're paying $150 for a motherboard without PAT and $250 for one with PAT, that's a 66% markup for 7% performance increase. Not all that impressive of a deal.

Re:Even Buddha is laughing at this... (1)

pigscanfly.ca (664381) | more than 11 years ago | (#6320170)

some of us arent so rich (read : university student) . If I can save $100 thats a big deal to me . As for days of work , once that 100us becomes cad (hey I'm canadain no laughing) that works out to about three days of work give or take for me.

Re:Even Buddha is laughing at this... (1)

p3d0 (42270) | more than 11 years ago | (#6320341)

After rent/mortgage, food, car, and everything else, most people probably have about 20-40 days' worth of disposable income to spend every year. If you want to toss that away one day's worth at a time, be my guest, but don't be surprised if someone finds 1 day's pay to be a significant amount to worry about.

Also, you're talking about end-customers that will be buying just one of these things. But your quote was about Intel (who will sell millions of them) and mobo manufacturers (who will buy millions of them). Now you're talking some fraction of a billion dollars. Is that enough to worry about yet?

IS THIS ANNOYING, OR WHAT? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319575)

This is a test.

This is only a test.

You may safely ignore this comment...

16d52d2df6ddd1e6efcf6851dec3cf85911f90ac0e48768f ec 246c09605362a528d887e7c65801eb0eed32fa9b296ac66879 6dfc03e9ecc8cdd3199fb34fa5fd90c532bc8c7802776e9ccf 3768c69b390919fe8239ba5be746ae7a1d44f50a7f63272535 2efe55675c8084885bdc2c88

IS THIS ANNOYING, OR WHAT? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319586)

This is a test.

This is only a test.

You may safely ignore this comment...

9705b8ae38b02e72615705b88d171fba316559fe6e6881df 2c 3dd00c6981986899a072d4f199643b4d2d16b9b606ceec

IS THIS ANNOYING, OR WHAT? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319590)

This is a test.

This is only a test.

You may safely ignore this comment...

2c1d21e96a6d80a69a395b6ff1956367b82a19c881efb18e 9d 1bce58f3d9c3a2cc027da728f50ce9f8b60fbbb9277cf1a2bc 9a43d2ec3fb9faf05fa563c895155c3d1842b10c89eca46906 ea65a60c0337a351003761ff2fda6718e4901fd210f103193d 122b58be30f09df993eca8c13632435cf99eec2a53ee7e4d8e eab451

My Penis Itches. d080703465add42e5fc8a7a05ddc855f (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319611)

This is a test.

This is only a test.

You may safely ignore this comment...

24a2dbfe8f3ac27bfdf453dde5d26c3f4870547cb0e1eb82 70 bf2d2151e8996849cd1601c39bdf6d421d905d583e366a2419 11e83f4dd548864fe2e48292d76971a8117eb8bb945afdcd75 51e28a6b53f779c0f150df20b0df5c7f815dba69b4d39410ae 50da070e8fc571f82a004525

Get em while you can. (2, Insightful)

twistedemotions (231376) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319612)

Word out of Intel is that there is a future revision of the 865 chipset will have PAT disabled in hardware before being shipped to motherboard manufacturers. The system will just lock up if they try to enable it.

So keep in mind this situation is temporary.

My Penis Itches. 12de5ce8fc188854b399af4a8af4d36c (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319630)

This is a test.

This is only a test.

You may safely ignore this comment...

f1558e79c0736bcc9770373fdf03dccbd014392a8e5efcc7 29 84985facfca580

My Penis Itches. 0789e47353cb91045d7bd8a39bff5d0b (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319667)

This is a test.

This is only a test.

You may safely ignore this comment...

4789bb821db492c36a8c7d7f0ce2f38f2f27e0f4118efff1 45 aeecd8367fbb370bf330ad68b59cf49006f7c8be6c9b1b2e81 ad6ee30063b13e5769065eec15e8ad5db5924e3e97ed8a387a 499efa9fa035ce0208261086fe26f722985832ea46c162223e aa6b3cf8e04d8ca10e533196874101816eb417d9ebae3b7bc6 9665fb370ffa32cc1f08b7ad5f2405f126429a89188e01d325 20f2c127da5a731796da8c2c809f0f90fb60826f6fe06add8f e9643ddc64cb0f826743e01e79f4ccf6ae

BAN *THIS* MUTHAFUCKAS! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319670)

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g_______________________________________________g_
o_/_____\_____________\____________/____\_______o_
a|_______|_____________\__________|______|______a_
t|_______`._____________|_________|_______:_____t_
s`________|_____________|________\|_______|_____s_
e_\_______|_/_______/__\\\___--___\\_______:____e_
x__\______\/____--~~__________~--__|_\_____|____x_
*___\______\_-~____________________~-_\____|____*_
g____\______\_________.--------.______\|___|____g_
o______\_____\______//_________(_(__>__\___|____o_
a_______\___.__C____)_________(_(____>__|__/____a_
t_______/\_|___C_____)/______\_(_____>__|_/_____t_
s______/_/\|___C_____)SLASHBOTS_(___>___/__\____s_
e_____|___(____C_____)\______/__//__/_/_____\___e_
x_____|____\__|_____\\_________//_(__/_______|__x_
*____|_\____\____)___`----___--'_____________|__*_
g____|__\______________\_______/____________/_|_g_
o___|______________/____|_____|__\____________|_o_
a___|_____________|____/_______\__\___________|_a_
t___|__________/_/____|_________|__\___________|t_
s___|_________/_/______\__/\___/____|__________|s_
e__|_________/_/________|____|_______|_________|e_
x__|__________|_________|____|_______|_________|x_
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Re:BAN *THIS* MUTHAFUCKAS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6320740)

its fucking shitheads like you that get half of my good open proxies banned. the real trolls on slashdot poop on your half assed attempt at trolling

Gah? (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319680)

So Intel released hardware with features disabled...hmm sounds like their usual [i487] tactics...

Boo Intel...

My Balls Itch. 1bff3f64f354e35b89422273e74cab (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6319692)

Slashdot [slashdot.org]

This is a test.

This is only a test.

You may safely ignore this comment...

9f2998dcc45d58baf6f70279655e9d9a436c869cc2e14e9a 3a d092e9ea0d6bb0769470af8480e9dbeba55f503be83247106a 232c3d4318f606c7f8e970a80f5a212775091ebf7f6311816f 2c3cbfa71384a9f64106792dd9b7e5ba4d631ac12e886cd708 5251dca77405cec968dcbd45778ad9999310b55a9ecfd26e93 5eae1dbab0f742373b1c7c3c62aeda2e7dd8bf79b4008a3ae6 4afa1b14a7949f1f14c2a66eefd27314a3dbd4b207ed916287 7224ceee8be459529f6c45975a3b790c6393e06678bf43969e d7f3b3377605aa8c9af9ba7b3261feff8ec724adc8fdb66e

Commercial Viability (4, Informative)

Detritus (11846) | more than 11 years ago | (#6319838)

This feature is useless for business applications where reliability is essential. While the PAT logic is in the 865 chipset, Intel does not guarantee that it has passed chip-level testing. It may work, it may not work, it may only work over a limited temperature range. It falls into the same category as overclocking the CPU. You don't know if the chip passed the test for a higher classification and was marked for a lower speed to satisfy market demand, or if it failed the test for reliable operation at the higher classification. If you want that guarantee, you pay the premium for the 875P.

Re:Commercial Viability (1)

JRHelgeson (576325) | more than 11 years ago | (#6320663)

From the article [tomshardware.com] at Tom's Hardware:

As is already well known, Springdale and Canterwood chipsets are completely identical during wafer production. Intel in fact makes a preselection, which then leads to different packaging. Intel explains this step with the following: only when a chip does not pass the PAT test does it become the lesser-value Springdale (provided that all other quality tests have been passed).

From the beginning, Intel put safety precautions into place that would ensure that the board manufacturers couldn't easily activate the fast memory access (PAT) with the less expensive 865 chipset. The price difference with the chipset alone is at least $16, which results in a difference of up to $55 per board for the end user.

Re:Commercial Viability (1)

cheezedawg (413482) | more than 11 years ago | (#6321124)

As I posted here [slashdot.org] , Asus's solution to enable PAT in the 865 involves overclocking the northbridge, so not only are you trying to enable PAT on a chip that did not pass the tests at the fab, you are running the chip way out of spec. Not good.

So..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6320074)

...what's PAT? Why is it important? Why should I care?

Asus P4P800 Deluxe. How high can it go? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6320710)

I got this mobo 3 weeks ago and am running a P4 2.6C at 2.8 Ghz. This is probably a bit conservative for the overclocking crowd. Although I would like to have it run faster, I am a bit apprehensive as I can't afford to lose real work, even if it's just a hour. Anyone know of any place where I can get good advice on how to push this particular board?

Pat Robertson sues Intel (0)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 11 years ago | (#6321213)

Following in the footsteps of well-known (but not as well-known as he thinks he is) director Spike Lee suing over Spike TV, well-known television evangelist Pat Robertson has filed suit against Intel Corporation regarding the use of the acronym PAT.

Robertson is quoted as saying: In order to squeeze this much additional performance out of the mature PC platform and then call it PAT, people might believe that I have prayed for divine intervention on the part of Intel Corporation. This is not the case. Despite the holy wars raging in the PC industry, I have yet to take sides, as might be implied by the usage of the name PAT. I hope for a speedy contribution -- er, resolution -- to solve this problem.

Other Pats are yet to be heard from.

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