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Engaging with the OSS Community

michael posted more than 11 years ago | from the diamond-ring-not-required dept.

Linux 83

s390 writes "Olliance has the second of its Open Source articles up at the Inquirer. It's called "Engaging with the Open Source Community (Part Two)", and it explains the different levels of involvement that companies can have with Open Source. More education for managers, and an outline of a corporate process for approaching adoption and deployment of Linux and other Open Source software."

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i am (-1)

exspecto (513607) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326201)

first pasta

Re:i am (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326209)

I am first risotto. I taste better.

my opinion... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326221)

It's been 3 days since I've been back on my feet after my anal correction surgery. The doctors told me they have corrected as much of the damage as they could. I think I will get used to having to wear diapers the rest of my life, things could be worse. At least I am still alive, and I can still breathe the fresh air, smell the blossoming flowers, and hear the chirps of courting birds on a spring day. Although my life is much different now, I have the willpower and confidence to move on.

My name is Rob Malda. I got anally feltched too hard.

I remember the night like it was yesterday. Another fun and energetic Saturday at the discotech in the gay corner of town. I was being my normal flamboyant social butterfly self and talking to all the local cuties. There were a lot of muscly guys there and I must tell you the scent of raw, homosexual energy at the discotec always made the hair on my neck (and other places) stand erect. But there was this one guy who really stood out in the crowd. I would later discover his name was Jamal. The first time I saw his glistening ebony skin at the discotec I knew I wanted him inside me. I've always been good at picking up guys so I walked in my sharp female way, swinging my ass at each step, until I was right in front of that sexy piece of chocolate cake. He had short, frizzy hair, teeth whiter than milk, and a friendly smile that was out of this world. Man, I wanted his dick in my ass so bad. But I had to keep my groove. I said to him in my well crafted lisping tone, "Hey sweetie, I've never your sweet ass in these parts before, want to join me for a drink?" He smiled and replied in a deep yet touching voice, "Heh heh, I sure would you little sex muffin"

This really hit it off from there, We talked and danced and flirted like schoolgirls. I found out he was from a town a few hundred miles away, visiting the big city for a little fun. He had muscles like you wouldn't believe, obviously worked out a lot, I felt like a little strawman compared to him (I'm fashionably slim). I was on top of the world, the envy of every boy at the place, a star. When we were resting from the thumping disco-house music, I asked Jamal if he wanted a bump of crystal meth. He gladly accepted, telling me that in the town where he came from it was hard to find good crystal. I took a bump myself. My nose is no stranger to this wonderful stuff! The energy from the crystal really made us move. His dancing skills were on par with mine (which are excellent, I have danced in a couple of small Broadway-style plays before). I was really getting hot and horny at this point though, I knew we had to find a quiet spot of our own.

We walked very quickly to the bathroom; I couldn't keep my hands off his luscious abs. We found an empty stall and stormed into it, it was a whirling hurricane of passion. The speed made us very energetic. We didn't make out for long before things became hot and heavy. I slipped my hand into his tight leather pants and grabbed his sweet man package. I was thinking at this point 'how did a fire hose end up in here?'. Then I realized this was his cock. It was the longest, thickest anaconda of a cock I ever witnessed. I pulled down his pants, which was difficult because he was getting real hard, real fast. I don't even want to guess how long his penis was, at least 12 inches, maybe more. And it was so think I couldn't even grab around it all with one hand. His cock was sweaty and glistened. I wanted this black staff real bad. I pulled off my own pants and bent down. I stuck the head of his cock in my mouth but it was just too big. I licked the rim a bit but I knew what I REALLY wanted. I turned around and assumed the position I have assumed so many times before. Face down, ass up. That's the way we like to fuck. My anus was not prepared for this brutal thrashing however. I've always described the sensation of anal intercourse as taking a long, incredibly enjoyable shit. But this didn't feel right at all. The walls of my anus were ripping, "PLEASE! Be gentle! I'm just a little white boy" I screamed. Jamal, fueled by crystal meth, wouldn't stop though. He began pushing his black cock into me harder and harder. The pain and pleasure was out of this world. I could feel his huge testicles smacking the back of my ass. He was grunting and groaning like a real man. I could hear the sensuous sound of blood and shit being packed by his violent fucking. I was in immense pain but I didn't want it to stop. He must have fucked me for 45 minutes before it was over but finally he began to cum. He was screaming so loud, "OH OH OH OH OH MY GOD, YES YES YES, TAKE IT LIKE A MAN, TAKE IT LIEK A MAN, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! OH YEAH!" At that moment I felt a gallon of cum spray into my ass, and I could hear shit, blood, and semen squishing inside me. It was paradise.

After Jamal removed his penis from my ass the problems started. I realized I was bleeding a lot more than usual. It took a whole roll of toilet paper to clean it up. I got dressed and returned to the discotech to unwind before going home. As I was walking across the dance floor I felt a sharp pain in my ass and lower stomach. I fell to the floor and started screaming, I was shaking and sweaty and pale. At that moment, a huge surge of watery shit spewed from my anus. It was mixed with blood and semen. I was crying and screaming and in pain. Everything started to go black and I vomited all over myself. I briefly remember someone pulling me out of my pile of feces, semen, blood, and vomit and on to a stretcher.

I awoke in a hospital bed. A doctor was there when I opened my eyes. He explained to me how I almost died and how my ass and lower intestine were permanently damaged not only from Jamal but also from years of vigorous fucking by multitudes of men. It was a shock but I knew it was my own fault, you cannot lead this sort of lifestyle and not face the consequences one day.

So life goes on, I no longer frequent the discotec where I met Jamal and then collapsed spewing watery shit. I lead a much more relaxed, normal life now. I still talk to Jamal, even though he damaged me I will never forget that night. He is in love now with a boy in his hometown, and I wish him the best.

Re:my opinion... (-1, Offtopic)

andy666 (666062) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326302)

OH! that was Rob with you ? at first i thought so....

i am (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326223)

first pizza

w00t

Re:i am (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326485)

Which toppings?

Instead of engaging with Microsoft.... (2, Funny)

Chicane-UK (455253) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326235)

...at Wolf 359 ;)

More Education For Managers (5, Insightful)

pytheron (443963) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326237)

Most of us would love to see Open Source widely adopted as a business strategy. The major barrier to this is that business adopts the path-of-least-resistance to profitability, and changing your current strategy for a largely untested and hence managerially mistrusted one is a brave move indeed. No amount of educating managers is going to change the fact that its better to wait and see others succeed (or fail) before you try yourself.

i am (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326250)

first burger

i do not resist profability - yet my beef is probably full of growth hormones and largely untested.... eating me is a brave move indeed. No amount of honest health workers is going to suceed corrupt cattle industry moguls and lying fast food joints.

b00 yah

Re:i am (-1)

Uber Banker (655221) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326263)

Hear you there brotha.

Re:i am (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326277)

you are first brains

monkey, pigeon, or human? i prefer pigeon.

Re:More Education For Managers (1)

God! Awful 2 (631283) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326382)

Most of us would love to see Open Source widely adopted as a business strategy. The major barrier to this is that business adopts the path-of-least-resistance to profitability, and changing your current strategy for a largely untested and hence managerially mistrusted one is a brave move indeed. No amount of educating managers is going to change the fact that its better to wait and see others succeed (or fail) before you try yourself.

It doesn't help that OSS gained critical mass at the same time the tech economy collapsed and most of the companies that tried this path are already in dire straights.

-a

Re:More Education For Managers (3, Insightful)

s390 (33540) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326705)

It doesn't help that OSS gained critical mass at the same time the tech economy collapsed...

I disagree. I believe IT budget pressures in this economic retrenchment are of great help in motivating IT managers to look into OSS for cost savings, even if they don't 'get' the larger benefits of escaping vendor lock-in initially.

Re:More Education For Managers (3, Insightful)

God! Awful 2 (631283) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326783)

I disagree. I believe IT budget pressures in this economic retrenchment are of great help in motivating IT managers to look into OSS for cost savings, even if they don't 'get' the larger benefits of escaping vendor lock-in initially.

If it's just a matter of using Apache instead of MS for their web server, I think a lot of companies are already doing that. But the article also talks about funding OSS development or forming a vendor consortium to develop a common tool. This isn't likely to happen because the companies that pay for the cost of research have a vested interest in maintaining a high cost of entry into the market.

-a

Re:More Education For Managers (3, Interesting)

s390 (33540) | more than 11 years ago | (#6327030)

But the article also talks about funding OSS development or forming a vendor consortium to develop a common tool. This isn't likely to happen....

Of course, different companies will choose to be involved to lesser or greater degrees. Most (more than 90%) will be users primarily, rather than getting involved. Of the relative few that do contribute, most of those will just submit bug reports and apply patches. The few that do get more involved will likely be in niche businesses where their cost savings from using open platforms are greater than added customization costs: a few percent at most.

But that doesn't mean that a few won't actively contribute, where their costs of doing so will be less than continuing to pay high annual license fees for commercial software.

Collaborative competition won't be adopted in large companies with major R&D efforts, as you say. But small companies in vertical industries can benefit by pooling their efforts, and it can be expected that some will try.

Re:More Education For Managers (2, Insightful)

TopShelf (92521) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326517)

But what articles like this can provide is an opportunity to lay out the different areas of risk that need to be considered, and then address how each of these can be examined and dealt with properly. The biggest obstacle to OSS in the corporate arena is simple unfamiliarity more than anything. A manager who's thinking of making an OSS recommendation needs to have good information backing him up when he makes the pitch to his/her superiors...

i am (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326239)

first bread. wholemeal granary rye. lots of fibre - keeps you smooth.

you know you like me.

Michael Sims: An Ethics Spectale (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326245)

Click here for article [spectacle.org]

Michael Sims, Domain Hijacking and Moral Equivalency by Jonathan Wallace jw@bway.net [mailto]

How would you feel if your webmaster maliciously took your web-site offline, then, when you demanded its return, put up a site attacking your company at your old URL? It happened to a group I was involved in, the Censorware Project, currently at http://www.censorware.net [censorware.net] . The purpose of this essay is to put the behavior on record, and to give you some impressions and inferences about it.

The Censorware Project was originally an informal collective of six people who collaborated online to fight censorware: Seth Finkelstein [sethf.com] , Bennett Haselton [peacefire.org] , Jamie McCarthy [mccarthy.vg] , Mike Sims, Jim Tyre and myself. Several of us had never met or even spoken on the phone, yet for some time -- around two years as I recall -- we had a remarkably easy collaboration. There was no funding, no hierarchy, no titles, not even project managers. Someone would suggest a project and take the responsibility for a part of it, others would sign up for other elements, and proceeding this way we got a remarkable amount of work done, including reports on X-Stop, Cyberpatrol, Bess and other censorware products.

Even though two of us were attorneys -- Jim and myself -- we never incorporated the group or wrote a charter or any contracts among ourselves. Mike Sims was obliging enough to register the domain, just as other members paid for press releases and the other incidental expenses which came along. Mike also served as webmaster of the censorware.org site and did substantial work [sethf.com] for the group, including writing contributions to several of the reports and lead authorship of at least one. Seth was the source [sethf.com] of our decrypted censorware blacklists [sethf.com] and managed many technical tasks, but later felt he had to leave the group because of the increasing prospects of a lawsuit [chillingeffects.org] , particularly under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). After Seth left the group, the remaining five continued.

Robert Frost said that "nothing gold can stay," and the Censorware Project was no exception. Over the summer of 2000, Mike Sims' reaction to a perceived slight from Jim Tyre was to take the site down for a week. He sent us mail at the time saying something like "The Censorware Project is now closed." [sethf.com] I replied to him that, given that the group was a collective and we all had an interest in its work product, the domain, and the goodwill it had achieved, the decision was not his to make. Sims did not reply.

After Seth created a partial, text, mirror, Mike put the site back up a week later without explaining, let alone apologizing for, his actions. Given his continuing failure to answer any email from me (and I think from others) and the overall signs that Sims thought the group was exclusively his, I wrote him several emails requesting that he turn the domain over to Jamie or Bennett, as I felt we could no longer trust him to administer it. We also found out during that time that important email from people trying to contact us, including members of the press, was not being answered by Sims, nor being forwarded to other members.

I ultimately became exasperated that my name was listed as a principal on what had now become a "rogue" site I had no control over. Over about a five week period, I wrote Sims several more emails asking him to delete my name from the site if he wasn't going to transfer the domain. Again, I received no reply.

In November 2000, Sims took the Censorware Project site offline again, with a message saying "Due to demands from some of the people who contributed, in however minor a fashion, to this site, it has been taken down." Judging from some email I received from him at the time, this meant me.

Its a sad thing, both because we got some good work done and because some of the other members of the group were eager to continue and in fact have continued working, while deprived then of the Censorware Project site, name, email aliases and public recognition. Within a few months after, we relaunched the site [archive.org] , with the original content, at http://www.censorware.net [censorware.net] . We only had the content available because Seth Finkelstein had mirrored it -- the rest of us trusted Mike and therefore had not maintained an archive out of his control.

But all the hundreds or thousands of links Censorware Project had build-up over the years still pointed to the old site. In some cases, it was impossible to fix them, since they were from mailing-list archives, old web news pages, in print, or webmasters didn't want to be to be bothered with edits. And anyone who tried to get in touch with us by sending mail to the previous contact address would have their message trashed by Sims.

In 2002, amidst the publicity of a major trial against a Federal censorware law ("CIPA" [ala.org] ), Sims made further changes to the censorware.org site. He expanded it with an essay accusing various other members of the project, principally Seth, of bad behavior. Remarkably, in his chronology of events, he does not deny nor even try to explain his take-down of the domain of a busy activist group which did not at all consent to being robbed of its domain:

... A few weeks later, the last shreds flew apart in a couple of bitter emails back and forth, and the website came down. I was asked nicely by Jamie McCarthy to restore the site. Reconsidering my hasty actions, I did so.

... It was conveyed to me that Tyre and Seth were pleased that I had given in to Jamie's request and restored the site, because that meant that Seth could spider (use an automated tool to download every webpage) all the content off of the site in preparation for putting it up elsewhere. That is to say, what I thought was a sincere and honest request from Jamie was actually a sort of trojan horse - made under a dishonest pretense.

That was the last straw. At the beginning of November, the site came down, for good.

Michael has now set things up so that every pointer to former censorware.org content leads to his attacks. What this means is that hundreds or thousands of links which were put up elsewhere to Censorware Project content during our hey-day now, when followed, lead to Michael's denunciation of the group. Try the experiment -- invent a URL starting with censorware.org, such as http://censorware.org/DomainHijackedByMichaelSims/ index.html and you will get to Michael's rant.

Although we made some attempt to contact people maintaining pages that linked to us, and ask them to redirect the link to the new www.censorware.net, we could not contact all of them, and some never made the change. My own Ethical Spectacle [spectacle.org] site had scores of links to Censorware.org -- and every time I thought I had changed them all, I would find a few more.

In short, this is a colossal and continuing act of malice by our former webmaster, Michael Sims. It's not even ambiguous -- you can go and read Mike's essay at censorware.org and confirm that he admits he did it.

Astonishingly, there were no consequences [sethf.com] to Michael, as far as I know, for taking down the Censorware Project content [sethf.com] and redirecting its substantial web traffic, first to a page which said the group no longer existed, and now to his rant against its members. We had some internal discussions about suing him to get the domain back. I thought there might be some merit in it and that we might be able to prove common law collective ownership of the domain by establishing our mutual contributions of work and money to create the content which was published on the site. However, another lawyer, much more knowledgeable about these things than I am, believed that the fact that Michael had been allowed by us to register the domain in his own name would be definitive and that we would lose.

The Censorware Project had been invited to participate in a mailing list of free speech organizations known as IFEA [ifea.net] -Plan. After Michael took down Censorware.org, several of us requested that he be removed from IFEA [ifea.net] -Plan because he had so badly violated our confidence. (His current rant on the site reveals a number of confidential communications he received over the years.) The list-master declined to delete him and we got a number of "We don't want to get in the middle of this" type messages from various other participants.

I was naively astonished by these. If the ACLU [aclu.org] 's webmaster had trashed the organization's site, I think everyone would pretty well recognize he was a Bad Character and Not To Be Trusted. As much more minor players, despite the significant contributions we had made in revealing what censorware actually blocked, no-one could be bothered to take a stand for us. There was nothing to be gained.

Another thing I learned from the experience is the pretty obvious lesson that it is ultimately hard to decide whom to trust when relationships are based on email and lack the significant visual cues we usually use in making trust-related determinations. However, I had met Mike in person twice, while there are other members of the Censorware Project I have never laid eyes upon.

Also, even in the most collegial, relaxed and rewarding collaborations, its good to have a written contract -- exactly the advice I used to give law clients but that none of us thought to adopt to protect ourselves against the eventuality of a rogue member. Click here for article [spectacle.org]

A company that OI am aquainted with... (4, Interesting)

Realistic_Dragon (655151) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326280)

...is easily big enough to polish and support OSS in house (they have nearly 5,000 support staff world wide and 2,000 developers supporting 100,000 workstations). They get no support direct from Microsoft. They have no interest in making money from software - things (and there are a lot of things) that get written in house stay in house, no matter what the commercial potential.

And yet they still don't use OSS, despite the fact that it would offer them huge cost savings, less problems with obsolescence, a decent code base for internal development and many other advantages. It's really, massivly bizarre why why don't see what they could gain.

Perhaps they have been locked in a cuboard for the last 10 years and don't realise it exists?

Mind you, this _is_ British industry - a culture exists where if there had been a practice of lopping off the foot of every new hire for the last 20 years it would carry on forever, because 'that's the way we have always done things'.

Re:A company that OI am aquainted with... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326313)

...is easily big enough to polish and support first foods in house (they have nearly 5,000 farmers world wide and 2,000 chefs supporting 100,000 restaurant tables). They get no support direct from national subsidies. They have no interest in making money from good quality food - things (and there are a lot of things) that get cooked in house stay in house, no matter what the commercial potential - largely because they contain illigal ingredients ('secret recipes').

And yet they still don't use gas cookers, despite the fact that it would offer them huge cost savings, less problems with obsolescence, a decent supply base for internal tastings and many other advantages. It's really, massivly bizarre why why don't see what they could gain.

Perhaps they have been locked in a kitchen cuboard for the last 10 years and don't realise it exists?

Mind you, this _is_ American industry - a culture exists where if there had not been a practice of pumping animals and plants full of chemicals for the last 20 years, future health problems wouldn't be packed up for the future, because 'that's the way we have always done things'.

Re:A company that OI am aquainted with... (3, Insightful)

pytheron (443963) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326325)

The point of "That's the way we have always done things" is that if it didn't work, then there would be no business left. Alot of people here will have worked on systems/software that are ancient in terms of computing technology, but they are still in production because they work. It's all about risk management, and it's less risky just to stay where you are and continue to make a profit with your current business model.

Re:A company that OI am aquainted with... (3, Interesting)

slartibartfastatp (613727) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326532)

Consider a big company that once (20/25 years ago) have spent a great deal of money buying a make-it-all (altough proprietary) system that solves many problems of this (not so) fictious company, and have no flaw that prevents it to work properly.

Would this company replace its system only because it's proprietary and possibly spent more money? I think the answer depends on how much "more money" is.

In my homecity, the local library still uses an old server with dumb terminals, and I think the whole administrative systems is based in it, the very system that was bought 20 years ago. Here, in the 3rd world, would be a shame to spend money replacing a system that works fine just because it`s proprietary.

Re:A company that OI am aquainted with... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326433)

First of all, you are talking about "OSS" like it some form of religion. What exactly are you talking about? Supporting OpenOffice in house? Releasing Industry-Specific-App as sourcecode to the public? Trying to replace Oracle with MySQL on principle?

> (they have nearly 5,000 support staff world wide and 2,000 developers supporting 100,000 workstations)

So it's already costing them a mint to support internal applications and configurations. Why would they want to take on the *additional* burden of supporting OpenOffice or KDE? Why would they want to distract from their internal "customers" by dealing with the public? Why bog yourself down with lawyers dealing with OSS IP issues? Why create another bureaucracy of UNIX/C d00ds that aren't focused on the core businesses?

For most shops, software cost is almost immaterial -- it's all about getting your IT staff to provide the services you need. Even if getting the "OSS Religion" saves a small amount of money, it runs cross-purposes to the overall goal of the business.

Re:A company that OI am aquainted with... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6327121)

How can I get some of that MS astroturf money?

Re:A company that OI am aquainted with... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6327461)

Microsoft is small potatoes, bud. Take my advice and pimp for someone like Siebel or Oracle.

Communty == Morons (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326298)

I decleare this post -1, troll^H^H^Hue, because its TRUE but only a troll understands why.

Debian : We don't like USB, we wan't you to use our 2.2 kernal and force you to use PS/2 mice. Oh, we want you to use X4.1 and Gnome 1.4 as your "desktop" that is you have a five year old graphics card.

KDE : We like to have giant throbbing buttons and eye candy, but we don't want you running it on enything less than a Athlon 3000 with 1GB of ram.

GNOME : We won't give you proper file dialog or split pane in nautlus because it will be to compicateed for the average user (read : the average user in our view can't even find the on button). Yes we give you stuff like tear off menus and rearranging buttons, but you have to use our special "gconf-editor" for it (which is nastier than winregedit32.exe)

Mozilla : We force you to use gtk 1.4 without compiling it because the average user likes the pain of their eyes straining on the alaised pcf.gz fonts.

Trolls : This is all true, delusion is an anagram of slashdot when spelled the "taco" way.

Re:Communty == Morons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326435)

Er, Debian actually gives ya a choice there sonny.
You can choose to install a 2.4 kernel if ya want with USB support.

Er, you can also use unoffical packages for Gnome and KDE and X.

Er, you could use Sarge.

Er, seems to be a lot of choice with Debian.

Re:Communty == Morons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326510)

He should have mentioned that all Linux problems can be solved by changing your distribution.

There's not a huge difference between deep denial and stupidity.

Re:Communty == Morons (2, Informative)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326978)

KDE : We like to have giant throbbing buttons and eye candy, but we don't want you running it on enything less than a Athlon 3000 with 1GB of ram.

My wife runs KDE3 happily on a 233 MHz K6 with 196 MB. She complains a little about the speed of OpenOffice on that, but not to the point where she's willing to spend $400 for a new machine. As for KDE itself, it's quite acceptable, thankyou, though I'd be the last to claim it can't be improved.

Re:Communty == Morons (3, Funny)

tcopeland (32225) | more than 11 years ago | (#6327405)

> Communty == Morons

The "irony" thread was yesterday's topic.

Re:Communty == Morons (1)

GnarlyNome (660878) | more than 11 years ago | (#6327590)

Since when have they not,screwed it up. roll your own (Linux from scratch)(I'm to lazy to c&p the URL0

ModPointWasterBot 0.1 (Linux) bed495e8c39041a (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326312)

Propaganda [foxnews.com]
Lies [foxnews.com]
Bullshit [foxnews.com]
Fake News [foxnews.com]
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy [foxnews.com]
Yellow Journalism [foxnews.com]

de63e50d05ea3fae12188e0e8ea4067c1fe0547ec203679a e7 1785eefa7077b6b26dda5248b725e9bd9c9bcec3d628b4d5ec 6a59e944d4fba084a10df970112382e9e7a12665240d13d0b9 28be28f23090f1c134549c398ab2870782fcf9eec60eb3f5b8 5dcdcc7c67a30fe14f5ba1efbc651ee72c10b4d3a814df7c0d 377ed78047b03d52384ba8b0f9680baacddcf79128f1bd1903 249f745a20da0215e889eb5c505e43f84a12f3e8340a2b6795 678318bde2264547b2b138e61a1e7e064f5d8297e451a0e650 c38252a91bcc88ef

Re:ModPointWasterBot 0.1 (Linux) bed495e8c39041a (1, Insightful)

CausticWindow (632215) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326904)

What's your issue with Fox?

They're the only outlet not heavily influenced by whiny liberals.

ModPointWasterBot 0.1 (Linux) f54c804b33e58cc (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326314)

Propaganda [foxnews.com]
Lies [foxnews.com]
Bullshit [foxnews.com]
Fake News [foxnews.com]
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy [foxnews.com]
Yellow Journalism [foxnews.com]

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Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326317)

Propaganda [foxnews.com]
Lies [foxnews.com]
Bullshit [foxnews.com]
Fake News [foxnews.com]
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy [foxnews.com]
Yellow Journalism [foxnews.com]

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Zzzzzz... (4, Interesting)

cenobita (615440) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326323)

Wonderful. I can't wait until phrases like "Open Source engagement spectrum" become commonplace.

Maybe i'm a little naive about the needs of enterprise users (a term that seems to be more and more misused as a selling point), but this article makes things seem a lot more complex than they need to be. Engaging the open-source community? Five levels of involvement? Gimme a break.

A business that's considering moving into widespread use of open-source software has a lot to consider, that much is obvious. However, the article strikes upon the most resonant point simply by mentioning that a company has to consider what suits their business best.

Most of what this article touches upon is simply extraneous, as it's covering basically what one goes through when deciding on *any* software. Budget constraints, long-term cost, difficulty of adoption for the end-user, and so on and so forth.
The community should be taken into consideration as necessary; it's a resource like any other, and your level of participation is dependent upon your needs as a company. Go with a commercial vendor, you get tech support, plus the benefit of community feedback and assistance. Go with a free one, you negate the tech support and interact with the community at large as much as necessary.

Honestly, if you're running a company and need a guidebook on how to engage with a community of developers and users, you need to step back and re-evaluate your tactics. This is mindless cruft for managers without a clue as to how to interact with people. "Deciding to engage"..pff. What are we, the friggin' Borg?

I can't help but be reminded of Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas, where a so-called expert is on stage droning on about the various levels of a dope fiend. You can describe as many "levels" or "points" as you like, but in the end, software is software, a dope fiend is a dope fiend.

Regardless of how you "engage", considerations like your budget and potential risks as a result of a adoption are pretty damned universal. It's not a goddamned 5-step program.

Re:Zzzzzz... (1)

Xpilot (117961) | more than 11 years ago | (#6328747)

No, no, no... you don't get it. Managementy types love this kind of talk. "Five levels of involvement"... heh... good stuff. If it doesn't make sense, the better!

ModPointWasterBot 0.1 (Linux) 432a4d5b2816954 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326338)

Propaganda [foxnews.com]
Lies [foxnews.com]
Bullshit [foxnews.com]
Fake News [foxnews.com]
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy [foxnews.com]
Yellow Journalism [foxnews.com]

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Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326345)

Propaganda [foxnews.com]
Lies [foxnews.com]
Bullshit [foxnews.com]
Fake News [foxnews.com]
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy [foxnews.com]
Yellow Journalism [foxnews.com]

143c7b7660e94b0d171ea0c82087fc1e933a35d843ab1065 1c b5ad033680047c08f966f051116fbae0de3356816aac8064b1 dec8706b666ee1382d44e2589ec79819b74839b43d1bb40d08 abc9d24fb326df915c75f1e04ab0e00717dcb7bbddddad3cfd f305d211b2600645e650df8d

SCO has the best way.. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326351)

SCO has the right idea about how to engage with the OSS community. They sue the lousy thieves. This is the only good way to deal with the OSS community. If you embrace OSS, you're supporting piracy and theft. When you support OSS, you're causing hard working men and women to lose their jobs. The only way to interact with the OSS community is sue them for the damages they cause to protect the jobs of people like you and I.

Re:SCO has the best way.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326415)

And I hope thats (a very poor attempt at) humour..

since when did choosing to give away something that you wrote yourself constitute theft?

Idiot.

Re:SCO has the best way.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326437)

Yeah, I hope it's not a good attempt at humor too.

YHBT! YHL! FOAD! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326439)

YHBT! YHL! FOAD!

changing the way Enterprises view software (4, Interesting)

imsmith (239784) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326352)

My experience is that Enterprises which do not view software as a capital investment, don't treat the procurement of software as an investment. In that respect, they get trapped into the same vicious cycle of vendor lock-in as the common consumer, and it costs them a lot of money later.

I think that as Enterprise IT managers start to wake up to the costs of vendor lock-in for tailored or custom applications, the response will be a demand for greater control.

Total control is obviously Free and Open source.
Code escrow it the next degree of control - think, when the corporate development and support ends, the source is delivered to the Enterprise.
Finally, proprietary code with an extended waranty that provides no-cost fixes for custom or tailored software that fails to perform as advertised is the minimum degree of control that would be required by the Enterprise for it to be considered a capital investment.

I can think of a half-dozen crappy custom product vendors that couldn't survive such a method being adopted by a broad slice of their market, and I think it would make the world a better place.

OSS Community Engaging With The World (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326362)

I'd be more apt to listen to people from the OSS Community if they started bathing, shaving, and look less like dirty hippies and more like professionals.

Oh, it's true, it's true.

Re:OSS Community Engaging With The World (1)

hendridm (302246) | more than 11 years ago | (#6327232)

Takes one to know one. Besides, you're reading Slashdot too.

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Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326363)

Propaganda [foxnews.com]
Lies [foxnews.com]
Bullshit [foxnews.com]
Fake News [foxnews.com]
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy [foxnews.com]
Yellow Journalism [foxnews.com]

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Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326364)

Propaganda [foxnews.com]
Lies [foxnews.com]
Bullshit [foxnews.com]
Fake News [foxnews.com]
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy [foxnews.com]
Yellow Journalism [foxnews.com]

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he dont quite get it (2, Interesting)

SignificantBit (677809) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326376)

Here, software is not made by armies of "Microserfs" employed by a giant corporation, but by armies of volunteer programmers who "donate" their code to the *public domain.*

public domain != OpenSource/Free Software

i'm worry about people dont getting this.

Re:he dont quite get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326606)

worry != worrying
don't != not

i'm worrying about people not getting this.

Re:he dont quite get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326611)

Right. Public domain != GPLed socialism.

Argh! What a pile of crap! (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326391)

Is that a scientific experiment to see how much bullshit the general public will accept?

What were they thinking when they wrote sentences such as "Engagement with an Open Source community is a continuum"? Whom were they trying to impress with this pseudo-scientific marketing fill-word collection?

They go on and on about the various ways in which a company can contribute to the open source community, but completely fail to say why a company would want to do that in the first place! The first installment of this diatribe was even worse, containing some vague assertions like "open source software is more stable" or "open source software is much more secure" and didn't even begin to consider backing this drivel up with facts of any kind.

Argh! Just read this little gem here: "This first decision is not a foregone conclusion, because different enterprises and IT organizations have differing objectives, resources, capabilities, enabling factors, and business constraints." Even pros like Accenture couldn't have packed less content and more hype fillwords into a single paragraph!

But the best part is the "conclusion" where they simply assert "In this paper we've reviewed the definition and advantages of Open Source software". Uh, WTF?!

Waaah, I want to puke when I read this crap! They actually have a headline called "High Level Process" and then proceed to talk about "milestones" and "enabling factors" and "identifying opportunities", it's like an ugly satire on KPMG, Accenture and all the other hype bubble spewers. It could be right out of one of these hollow Gartner Group reports, just blowing in a different hype horn.

This is exactly the kind of lip service the open source community does not need. I say: stay with your SAP friends.

On the other hand, maybe it's a good sign that the open source market is now big enough to attract their share of parasites.

Re:Argh! What a pile of crap! (2, Insightful)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326942)

What were they thinking when they wrote sentences such as "Engagement with an Open Source community is a continuum"? Whom were they trying to impress with this pseudo-scientific marketing fill-word collection?

I see an objective and insightful article here. It's not clear to me what you are whining about, perhaps you are trying to appear cool by dissing it? Remember, it wasn't written for you, it's obviously aimed at managers.

They go on and on about the various ways in which a company can contribute to the open source community, but completely fail to say why a company would want to do that in the first place!

Luckily for you too, because now is your golden chance to write your own article. As far as this one goes, they apparently assume that the reader is already aware of the benefits and is now at the point of wondering how they can get aboard the train, i.e., "engage the community" in PHB-speak.

The first installment of this diatribe was even worse, containing some vague assertions like "open source software is more stable" or "open source software is much more secure" and didn't even begin to consider backing this drivel up with facts of any kind.

Heh, you are just a troll, have a nice day.

Re:Argh! What a pile of crap! (1)

10am-bedtime (11106) | more than 11 years ago | (#6329613)

if you see both objectivity and insight at the same time, your eyes see w/ neither. insight comes from intimacy w/ some matter, whereas objectivity relies on consensus of the senses only. better to say frankly that you enjoyed the article and agreed w/ it enough to be willing to read more in the same vein.

back on topic: it would be nice for managers to engage in their own open-foo initiatives, like: open-door policy, timely feedback on well-delineated expectations, actual participation in the work to understand its grotty nature, and so forth. the manager that understands the congruence of these practices w/ the motivation behind free software [gnu.org] (and, by extension, open source software) is best positioned to grow. those that don't, won't.

Triumph of the Commons (3, Insightful)

God! Awful 2 (631283) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326453)

In Part 1 of the article, the authors like to point out how OSS turns the tragedy of the commons into the triumph of the commons. Then in Part 2, they tell you how to "engage" with the OSS community in order to get higher quality software. This article is never going to convince businesses to switch to open source because it never uses the magic words: this is how to make money fast.

The "triumph of the commons" argument is a obvious example of how arguments by analogy can be used to support a ridiculous conclusion. OSS opponents deride the GPL because they say the tragedy of the commons will prevent anyone from making any money. The authors respond "No, it's the triumph of the commons because the result is high quality software." That's great, but you're still evading the real question.

Show me the money!
Show me the money!
Show me the money!

-a

Don't you mean the Tragedy of the Commons? (1)

BillsPetMonkey (654200) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326799)

Like here [aol.com] ?

Re:Don't you mean the Tragedy of the Commons? (1)

God! Awful 2 (631283) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326869)

I know what the tragedy of the commons is. If you read part 1 of the article, you will see that the authors coin the term "triumph of the commons" as a rebuttal of the accusation that the GPL creates a tragedy of the commons.

-a

Re:Triumph of the Commons (1)

freedog (635260) | more than 11 years ago | (#6327821)

OK, I bit - I'll show you the money.

In emerging markets like Asia, where the tech industries are set to take off (China, for instance, which is greatly outdistancing the US in the number of technical professionals it is producing - a cursory visit to any graduate engineering program at a university near you will prove assertion). How will they challenge the megabucks of the oligopolies that have sweetheart deals with proprietary software companies to make their benchmarks sing? The only effective way to challenge them is to form consortiums that produce OSS to rival the proprietary offerings, be it benchmarks, or "user friendliness".

Personally, I think the best choice for a license that these companies could adopt would be the GPL :>

Re:Triumph of the Commons (1)

God! Awful 2 (631283) | more than 11 years ago | (#6328778)

In emerging markets like Asia, where the tech industries are set to take off. How will they challenge the megabucks of the oligopolies that have sweetheart deals with proprietary software companies to make their benchmarks sing? The only effective way to challenge them is to form consortiums that produce OSS to rival the proprietary offerings. Personally, I think the best choice for a license that these companies could adopt would be the GPL

I have no doubt that the Chinese tech industry is poised to take off. (In fact, I tried to invest in the Chinese tech sector a couple of years ago and I was annoyed that I couldn't find any mutual funds that invest in mainland China.)

As for which license they should use: (Let's ignore the fact that you didn't provide any justification for why they would want to choose the GPL.) It doesn't matter a whit what license they choose because nobody in China gives a lick about intellectual property anyway.

-a

Re:Triumph of the Commons (1)

freedog (635260) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339197)

The reason that Chinese companies would choose the GPL is because it has proven to be wildly popular with the widest array of people that use and develop OSS. IBM suports the GPL and backs that up with money and developers. But then I guess you think IBM is just stupid? The hardware companies will be making their money off hardware, not software, so it will behoove them to appeal to the largest, most diverse community.

You stated: "...nobody in China gives a lick about intellectual property anyway."

Actually, I think the Chinese care a lot about IP, and that concern will manifest itself in China and Asia in general through the embracing of a license that puts them in the best position to compete with the worlds biggest IP horder, the U.S., and that license would be the GPL.

Re:Triumph of the Commons (1)

God! Awful 2 (631283) | more than 11 years ago | (#6341508)


Actually, I think the Chinese care a lot about IP

Right... That's why the rate of music piracy in China is over 90% (according to a /. article a few months ago). That's why you can get every conceivable pirated movie in Chinatown. That's why all my Chinese friends (at least the immigrants) pirate software. Believe me, the only thing they like about GPL'ed software is that it's free. I've talked to them about this in some detail and they have no qualms about stealing GPL'ed code either.

that concern will manifest itself in China and Asia in general through the embracing of a license that puts them in the best position to compete with the worlds biggest IP horder, the U.S., and that license would be the GPL

They will embrace the license all right. They will get their edge from the fact that they steal GPL'ed code and companies in the US don't. Of course, then companies in the US will start to do it too.

IBM suports the GPL and backs that up with money and developers. But then I guess you think IBM is just stupid?

IBM knows they are taking a big gamble by focusing on OSS. You think they don't known that? IBM is not stupid, but they are very good at FUD. Right now, they are bandwagon jumping. They reevalute this strategy constantly. Ironically, one of IBM's biggest mistakes was back in the 80s when they decided to focus on hardware and let other people sell the software.

The hardware companies will be making their money off hardware, not software, so it will behoove them to appeal to the largest, most diverse community.

That's a rather vast oversimplification. Is Cisco a hardware company or a software company? Sure they sell custom hardware, but do you think they hire more hardware developers or more software developers?

-a

Re:Triumph of the Commons (1)

freedog (635260) | more than 11 years ago | (#6381747)

My biggest beef with your various takes is that you color China as some sort of immoral IP scofflaw - perhaps I imply too much, but probably not. When it comes to IP, morality and ethics factors in not at all for current U.S. businesses. If we, the U.S., were really that concerned with the Chinese making off with IP, then we'd be actively pursuing regime change within that country, and not letting companies like Cisco build the Great Firewall of China, which only strengthens the power of said regime. It is very convenient for U.S. companies to play the IP morality card, because this gives them an edge in trade negotiations, but I'm sorry, I just don't buy the "U.S.-style IP laws and proprietary software is good for us all" lines. Save that FUD for the Party conventioneers. At least just call it what it is, which is conflicting interests trying to get over on the other by any means availible.

IBM knows they are taking a big gamble by focusing on OSS.

Every license is a gamble - and if IBM, as you say, is constantly assessing its positions regarding the GPL, they have pretty consistently found the GPL to be a very good gamble.

Re:Triumph of the Commons (1)

God! Awful 2 (631283) | more than 11 years ago | (#6388743)


My biggest beef with your various takes is that you color China as some sort of immoral IP scofflaw - perhaps I imply too much, but probably not.

I'm not trying to slander China. I'm merely pointing out that modern day Chinese adults didn't grow up in the same kind of culture we did.

When it comes to IP, morality and ethics factors in not at all for current U.S. businesses.

No doubt. But if the employees in those companies need to be complicit then cultural attitudes matter.

If we, the U.S., were really that concerned with the Chinese making off with IP, then we'd be actively pursuing regime change within that country.

Yeah... right after we finish with Iraq, we'd take on China. The US may be willing to go to war under fairly suspect circumstances, but they only take on weaker opponents. The US is keen to trade with China at any cost because the last few administrations have been part of the fad of globalization at any cost, and China is one hell of a market.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy the "U.S.-style IP laws and proprietary software is good for us all" lines.

I can't see how the GPL would be of benefit to them either (which was your assertion).

Every license is a gamble - and if IBM, as you say, is constantly assessing its positions regarding the GPL, they have pretty consistently found the GPL to be a very good gamble.

I don't think IBM is blown away by the success of its decision to support Linux. However, every decision has an opportunity cost. They're not going to switch strategies unless they have a better idea of what to do.

-a

Too much corporatespeak (3, Insightful)

Pettifogger (651170) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326482)

As someone who deals with business stuff, this sort of heavy-handed corporatespeak really puts me off. It puts off others, too, but a lot of suits are reluctant to admit it.

People usually use this kind of language to somehow "prove" that whatever they have is "serious" and "businesslike."

Here's a better idea: Computers are so flippin' cheap these days. If you want to sell OSS services, get ahold of the IT manager, or even better, the CFO of the corporation and drop $200 to GIVE them a FREE box with FREE software on it. $200 is cheaper than most advertising, and I guarantee you that it would be booted, played with, kicked over to IT for awhile, and so on. If a CFO (or other high exec) sees that OSS genuinely works and how much money they can save... well, that's the kind of thing that will make a sale. Throwing a bunch of corporatespeak at people is well, what all the other corporations do. No one really pays attention to it, they only care about the bottom line. The effects have to be effectively demonstrated.

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Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326550)

Propaganda [foxnews.com] Lies [foxnews.com] Bullshit [foxnews.com] Fake News [foxnews.com] Vast Right Wing Conspiracy [foxnews.com] Yellow Journalism [foxnews.com]

Posted using formkey nVs0OlKmJS through host 211.185.47.66. Posted using formkey s7KeOdhy41 through host 80.33.108.107. Posted using formkey f2Ecyr1ESk through host 216.161.155.13. Posted using formkey EfRFFfdRc5 through host 211.233.17.108. Posted using formkey OQHA5mMD83 through host 200.206.120.194. Posted using formkey JWePQbi71F through host 211.233.72.119. Posted using formkey lgnkjHNFpd through host 213.229.143.219. Posted using formkey eNLWlIS2DQ through host 211.233.17.113. Posted using formkey wCXFHhqwp7 through host 199.120.203.104. Posted using formkey TXC4qm0bhK through host 198.25.27.145. Posted using formkey 82ikXZlZLu through host 212.50.136.72. Posted using formkey HnMSO787OY through host 209.99.228.148. Posted using formkey OcxOhFSVE3 through host 213.121.248.156.

Scientology [xenu.net] Scientology [scientology-lies.com] Scientology [factnet.org] Scientology [scientology-kills.org] Scientology [whyaretheydead.net]

4537892d3b5a210cf1969c0cffc327e5f985293a0ce1b928 e5 a58489f086165f28d17215c4cfa969a0531f9a7971590915a4 eb39f2ed60eda8956c53a8c3586eead6d09cef6ed7218d2e21 2e854786482a8efa289025a74ce50cae9e92e0edb2f1c22be0 1f0446e1dd5290fce69e0c239017f43615f0cf08b7fa03f131 97f9719f205dad67b7407fec00834c17b2cf2e354ceb6cd104 71b67b540a1aa09fa7b3

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Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326558)

Propaganda [foxnews.com] Lies [foxnews.com] Bullshit [foxnews.com] Fake News [foxnews.com] Vast Right Wing Conspiracy [foxnews.com] Yellow Journalism [foxnews.com]

Posted using formkey nVs0OlKmJS through host 211.185.47.66. Posted using formkey s7KeOdhy41 through host 80.33.108.107. Posted using formkey f2Ecyr1ESk through host 216.161.155.13. Posted using formkey EfRFFfdRc5 through host 211.233.17.108. Posted using formkey OQHA5mMD83 through host 200.206.120.194. Posted using formkey JWePQbi71F through host 211.233.72.119. Posted using formkey lgnkjHNFpd through host 213.229.143.219. Posted using formkey eNLWlIS2DQ through host 211.233.17.113. Posted using formkey wCXFHhqwp7 through host 199.120.203.104. Posted using formkey TXC4qm0bhK through host 198.25.27.145. Posted using formkey 82ikXZlZLu through host 212.50.136.72. Posted using formkey HnMSO787OY through host 209.99.228.148. Posted using formkey OcxOhFSVE3 through host 213.121.248.156.

Scientology [xenu.net] Scientology [scientology-lies.com] Scientology [factnet.org] Scientology [scientology-kills.org] Scientology [whyaretheydead.net]

893cba398418b8cfd0fe1a08e83f622475c41b5fb0779a2d c3 a380d9034de15cc86d8aea1b6e9c6a9503a2cecea55b132329 2e47245f35adb9f757a068cb413636c303c247580ba2ad350d ab96482815bd60b7054e3090a6a7b3fc94f4d9d17f58800769 ab1d87cca5f2846001f6409519a6d0f929f3eb593de51a3c1d 0357895148bbcaa77de029e46898e3ebfa7ca1

Mod.Point.Waster.Bot 0.2 (Linux) b3ba081ea31233 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326561)

Propaganda [foxnews.com] Lies [foxnews.com] Bullshit [foxnews.com] Fake News [foxnews.com] Vast Right Wing Conspiracy [foxnews.com] Yellow Journalism [foxnews.com]

Posted using formkey nVs0OlKmJS through host 211.185.47.66. Posted using formkey s7KeOdhy41 through host 80.33.108.107. Posted using formkey f2Ecyr1ESk through host 216.161.155.13. Posted using formkey EfRFFfdRc5 through host 211.233.17.108. Posted using formkey OQHA5mMD83 through host 200.206.120.194. Posted using formkey JWePQbi71F through host 211.233.72.119. Posted using formkey lgnkjHNFpd through host 213.229.143.219. Posted using formkey eNLWlIS2DQ through host 211.233.17.113. Posted using formkey wCXFHhqwp7 through host 199.120.203.104. Posted using formkey TXC4qm0bhK through host 198.25.27.145. Posted using formkey 82ikXZlZLu through host 212.50.136.72. Posted using formkey HnMSO787OY through host 209.99.228.148. Posted using formkey OcxOhFSVE3 through host 213.121.248.156.

Scientology [xenu.net] Scientology [scientology-lies.com] Scientology [factnet.org] Scientology [scientology-kills.org] Scientology [whyaretheydead.net]

a5cec53fe05ecbff2bc9fef01077f6952ae2f66d8c3320fb 80 dceb024ab9c09750b9c141768db11d4b96b0957c487bd3c3a5 d73cacc67f80b26fb7079b0f7fe491c0bebdd35649c8a56385 b390f004d92d9de9b16939a32d828b6ed11b24ffdca56b6ea9 b986428c2ab2fb458f5da882004e34995df78f6f34f7a819fb 4263438f56c9b214a9d6f78296e2daf6614fb5be9b6cec65c8 63e1b55538d2c7fcc9b091b65bae60854deb25068b162f66e6 b3a65ba7e3ee2ae75ba8ae263e5a73537c5e037904f069d5d0 9830083f3243ec9ffe7d8d22c444e8f808b6362c6083adf6

Suck on my chocolate salty balls c59a72950a5386c70 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326726)

Propaganda [foxnews.com] Lies [foxnews.com] Bullshit [foxnews.com] Fake News [foxnews.com] Vast Right Wing Conspiracy [foxnews.com] Yellow Journalism [foxnews.com]

Scientology [xenu.net] Scientology [scientology-lies.com] Scientology [factnet.org] Scientology [scientology-kills.org] Scientology [whyaretheydead.net]

anusfeast [slashdotbot.com]

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Suck on my chocolate salty balls a50493178b14da2f6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326731)

Propaganda [foxnews.com] Lies [foxnews.com] Bullshit [foxnews.com] Fake News [foxnews.com] Vast Right Wing Conspiracy [foxnews.com] Yellow Journalism [foxnews.com]

Scientology [xenu.net] Scientology [scientology-lies.com] Scientology [factnet.org] Scientology [scientology-kills.org] Scientology [whyaretheydead.net]

anusfeast [slashdotbot.com]

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Suck on my chocolate salty balls 7d67a61d8c7e61152 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326741)

Propaganda [foxnews.com] Lies [foxnews.com] Bullshit [foxnews.com] Fake News [foxnews.com] Vast Right Wing Conspiracy [foxnews.com] Yellow Journalism [foxnews.com]

Scientology [xenu.net] Scientology [scientology-lies.com] Scientology [factnet.org] Scientology [scientology-kills.org] Scientology [whyaretheydead.net]

anusfeast [slashdotbot.com]

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Suck on my chocolate salty balls a3ed5c9ef7dbd64b5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326767)

Pee Eightch Pee sucks. PHP sucks, because it's a piece of shit. Suck ass PHP, it blows goatse balls. I hate PHP and you should too for all these reasons I have just outlined. Thank you, eat my ass hole out now.

anusfeast [slashdotbot.com]

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Suck on my chocolate salty balls 295029833128d5e7b (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326776)

Pee Eightch Pee sucks. PHP sucks, because it's a piece of shit. Suck ass PHP, it blows goatse balls. I hate PHP and you should too for all these reasons I have just outlined. Thank you, eat my ass hole out now.

anusfeast [slashdotbot.com]

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Suck on my chocolate salty balls 5aae68270b448da2a (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326793)

Pee Eightch Pee sucks. PHP sucks, because it's a piece of shit. Suck ass PHP, it blows goatse balls. I hate PHP and you should too for all these reasons I have just outlined. Thank you, eat my ass hole out now.

anusfeast [slashdotbot.com]

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Suck on my chocolate salty balls cfc589f72fd5f46aa (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326796)

Pee Eightch Pee sucks. PHP sucks, because it's a piece of shit. Suck ass PHP, it blows goatse balls. I hate PHP and you should too for all these reasons I have just outlined. Thank you, eat my ass hole out now.

anusfeast [slashdotbot.com]

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Suck on my chocolate salty balls b4f6e40b53667c935 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326801)

Pee Eightch Pee sucks. PHP sucks, because it's a piece of shit. Suck ass PHP, it blows goatse balls. I hate PHP and you should too for all these reasons I have just outlined. Thank you, eat my ass hole out now.

anusfeast [slashdotbot.com]

28ee246ec2eb21c48f71abd66eb5d2e6b6ddc699659f7367 c8 ef5843c08a854a0fb94b5238b785967da7765e33a7d8aad53f 539e0e5b10ad4a14a5852132a5dd

Suck on my chocolate salty balls 6ac9484659fd46bd1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326813)

Pee Eightch Pee sucks. PHP sucks, because it's a piece of shit. Suck ass PHP, it blows goatse balls. I hate PHP and you should too for all these reasons I have just outlined. Thank you, eat my ass hole out now.

anusfeast [slashdotbot.com]

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Suck on my chocolate salty balls 4620c27e44070de40 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326816)

Pee Eightch Pee sucks. PHP sucks, because it's a piece of shit. Suck ass PHP, it blows goatse balls. I hate PHP and you should too for all these reasons I have just outlined. Thank you, eat my ass hole out now.

anusfeast [slashdotbot.com]

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Suck on my chocolate salty balls b055fc7de322786cd (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6326825)

Pee Eightch Pee sucks. PHP sucks, because it's a piece of shit. Suck ass PHP, it blows goatse balls. I hate PHP and you should too for all these reasons I have just outlined. Thank you, eat my ass hole out now.

anusfeast [slashdotbot.com]

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Other ways (4, Interesting)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 11 years ago | (#6326885)

I feel like a broken record, but what has been very effective for our company is not usually mentioned in these kinds of discussions.

We found an open source app that did nearly what we needed, so we contracted the developer to add features for us (into the main open source version).

Obviously this works best when there is one person or a company behind a project, and also when the features you need are in line with the overall direction the developer is willing to take the project.

I envision a system where this could be expanded, where end users would bid competitively on which features to be added or bugs to be fixed. I've seen some attempts at realizing this sort of system, but none have caught on in a big way.

This could even work in a micropayment world, since a central site could take a block donation of a minimum of say $20-50 and then you could split that up as small as a dollar at a time between different projects, features, and bugs. The developers would get paid in minimum sized chunks too, so on both sides, the traditional barriers to micropayments (high transaction costs) are reduced.

Think of it kinda like a bug bounty that some projects do before a major release, but instead of being initiated by the developers, it would be initiated by the users.

An economy like this of development work ensures that the bugs that are most important get fixed, and the features that people want get added too.

Re:Other ways (3, Insightful)

droleary (47999) | more than 11 years ago | (#6327562)

We found an open source app that did nearly what we needed, so we contracted the developer to add features for us (into the main open source version).

Honestly, this is the way for a business to "engage" the open source community. The article is puffery and completely neglects that software is made open precisely because it is something that is intended to be seen as a service industry and not a product industry. As an author, I would naturally appreciate code tweaks from others, but what I really would like is to be paid to work on the code, and that is especially true if a business is involved. That is, I'd be more appreciative if I were paid directly to update the code rather than the company paying someone else to work on my code and then submit it to me.

I envision a system where this could be expanded, where end users would bid competitively on which features to be added or bugs to be fixed. I've seen some attempts at realizing this sort of system, but none have caught on in a big way.

I've tried this at my company [subsume.com] under the name Serviceware [subsume.com] . It's not caught on or even been profitable, but it does seem like the best way for a company to approach open source and/or software as a service.

Re:Other ways (1)

LadyLucky (546115) | more than 11 years ago | (#6328930)

In our shop we have made major changes to some existing projects (one of the photographed JBoss devs comes from our dev team). But we don't do that all the time, because sometimes there is a competitive advantage in what we do, so we can't be using an existing package and improve it.

Different levels of involvement... (4, Funny)

josh crawley (537561) | more than 11 years ago | (#6327660)

... with the open source community:

  • Asking a question on IRC and being told to RTFM
  • Posting to a newsgroup and being told to RTFM
  • Writing an email and being told to RTFM
  • Posting to Slashdot and being told to RTFM
Did I miss any?

Re:Different levels of involvement... (2, Insightful)

mystran (545374) | more than 11 years ago | (#6328570)

How about comments within the source or the README that also tell you to RTFM ?
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