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Panther Analysis Getting Underway

CmdrTaco posted more than 11 years ago | from the beware-the-symlinks-that-bite dept.

OS X 463

Durin_Deathless writes "Think Secret has posted their first article analyzing the changes from Mac OS X 10.2 to 10.3. In this first installment, they look at the changes to the Installation, System Requirements, the Finder, and some other things. They have some nice images available too."

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FP (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6338995)

FIRST POST!

Re:FP (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339003)

u pig!

^..^
(oo)

OINK!

/.ed already (0)

mbennis (160025) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339005)

wonderful OSX

Re:/.ed already (2, Funny)

Draoi (99421) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339125)

wonderful OSX

Well, according to NetCraft [netcraft.com] , their server is running FreeBSD. Go figure ...

The differnce? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339008)

0.1 or $150.0

There is no wrong answer!

Dear Apple (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339011)

Dear Apple,

I am a homosexual. I bought an Apple computer because of its well earned reputation for being "the" gay computer. Since I have become an Apple owner, I have been exposed to a whole new world of gay friends. It is really a pleasure to meet and compute with other homos such as myself. I plan on using my new Apple computer as a way to entice and recruit young schoolboys into the homosexual lifestyle; it would be so helpful if you could produce more software which would appeal to young boys. Thanks in advance.

with much gayness,

Father Randy "Pudge" O'Day, S.J.

Re:Dear Apple (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339049)

Oh, I almost forgot: P.S. I am a homosexual. I post trolls on Slashdot so that I can gain a reputation as "the" gay Apple basher. Since I have become a troll, I have been exposed to a whole new world of gay friends. It is really a pleasure to meet and compute with other homos such as myself. We get together every Sunday afternoon to compare posts and see who can get modded down the most. I plan on using my new status as "the" gay Apple basher as a way to entice and recruit young schoolboys into the homosexual lifestyle; it would be so helpful if you could keep existing which would make it possible for me to continue to do this. Thanks in advance. with much gayness, Father Randy "Pudge" O'Day, S.J.

Awww, widdums (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339081)

Looks like the Apple faggots are getting their panties in a bunch already!

Re:Dear Apple (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339101)

u pig!

^..^
(oo)

OINK!

"They have some nice images available too." (3, Funny)

PhoenixK7 (244984) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339014)

Translation: It'll only take 5 seconds to slashdot 'em.

Re:"They have some nice images available too." (2, Funny)

Bob Wehadababyitsabo (629809) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339065)

Quote: "Posted by CmdrTaco on Tue Jul 01, '03 10:34 AM" /.'ed by 10:40. Not too far off the mark!

Re:"They have some nice images available too." (1)

Narf Narf (63083) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339091)

Yes, it is so dead. Did anyone mirror the images?

Re:"They have some nice images available too." (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339174)

Wrong question.

The right one is: Did anyone mirror the images and is dumb enough to post link on slashdot?

Re:"They have some nice images available too." (5, Funny)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339198)

They are well-slashdotted at this point. I guess the name of the site is appropriate though. "This website will self-destruct in five seconds."

Most powerful OS EVAR!* (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339015)

* measurements taken using stolen MS source code from Russia that 1337B01 swears is the real deal, compiled with GCC 0.8, run on a Pentium I 75MHz machine to get rid of the other guy's unfair advantages and make the test "fair" where "fair" means "Apple wins."

Blake Edwards rools! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339016)

Inspector Clouseau is a Discordian saint -- just see how he uses his 'leet kung foo skillz to school Kato!

Oh. What? Well, I assumed that since we were talking about Apple, it was a Pink panther!!!!

*pple is dying! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339167)

Geebus Khrist you *pple mods have a, errr, stick up your butts!

MAC - computer of the future? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339018)

in an era of legalized sodomy and rampant use of pot, I recommend to all my clients that they prepare for the future and invest in apple. The MAC is the computer of choice for the open sores community, and a great place to meet others sharing their "lifestyle".

Mac...UGH! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339024)

*stinks**

Well, that alieviates my main worry (4, Interesting)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339029)

While the format of a Places sidebar won't appeal to everyone, just as column view doesn't appeal to everyone, Apple is providing users with a number of ways to customize the look and function of windows. A user who simply wants a plain window with no toolbar or sidebar, with basic folder icons that open up new windows when clicked, like in Mac OS 9, can still do that.
That's a real relief. It's not that Panther's new system isn't better (I don't know if it is or not), but when one's been using a particular, familiar, system since the Commodore Amiga, it's good to know that system is still available if I turn out not to like Panther's new way of doing things.

That really was the only worry I had. I don't have strong views on Brushed Metal, I like the lower-key stripes I've seen, so I'll almost certainly upgrade.

Dear Randy O'Day (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339031)

Dear Father O'Day:

Thanks for your letter. Being Catholic myself, I know exactly what you're talking about! It has always been our plan here at Apple Computer Inc to revolutionize personal computing with our high-quality and highly gay products.

I'm happy to answer your letter by letting you know that YES we will be releasing an entire hLife ("homo-life") software line. You'll be able to recognize it in stores by the small stylized logo depicting a large cock entering a tight anus with an Apple logo on it. ("Suddenly it all comes together" indeed!).

Anyway, I hope you and other members of our community will join us on our mission, and purchase the exciting new hLife boxed set. Only the boxed set comes with translucent cock rings!

Sincerely,

Harry Rodman
Vice-president
Homosexual Liaison Services
Apple Computer, Inc.

Panther before LongHorn?? (5, Funny)

jkrise (535370) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339032)

Looks like reverse bio-engineering. Predators normally come after the prey!

Brushed metal (3, Informative)

Bob Wehadababyitsabo (629809) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339040)

I'm disappointed that Apple has forced the extremely ugly brushed metal on us. Aqua is beautiful; why dilute that beauty by replacing it with some ugly, unrealistic looking texture?

Isn't Apple violating it's own HIG by making the Finder metal? I though you could only make programs that emulate physical devices metal.

Re:Brushed metal (2, Insightful)

Znonymous Coward (615009) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339075)

It's not like all system running 10.2 will suddenly rm -r / themselves when Mac OS X 10.3 comes out. If you don't like it, you don't have to upgrade. Mac OS X 10.2 will still work when 10.3 is released.

Re:Brushed metal (3, Insightful)

Mikey-San (582838) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339107)

It was supposed to be for apps that emulate or interface with real-world devices.

But you know, the Human Interface Guidelines are just that--guidelines. They aren't scripture.

Then again, where are we without rules to follow? UI consistency is worth the effort, right?

I find these both interesting ideas, not really subscribing to the HIG as the Bible and not really seeing them as something to look at but not pay attention to.

Thoughts? :-)

LOL (5, Funny)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339121)

In case you didn't realize it, the Finder is supposed to be the computer, in a user-centric model.

So the physical device the Finder emulates... is your computer :)

Re:LOL (1)

toddestan (632714) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339201)

And we all know those lovely Macs are made out of translucent, multi-colored, brushed metal - don't we?

Aren't they? (1)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339263)

My PowerBook is a lovely titanium grey, my PowerMac is a similar silvery shade of Quicksilver, as are the Aluminum PowerBooks and aluminum G5. Heh, even the iSight.

Oh, you mean the eMac, iBook, iPod, and iMac?

Well, hrm, I guess the Finder is supposed to be 'pro' and not 'consumer'? I dunno, I guess the analogy has to break somewhere, and I guess it's with the consumer level hardware.

Re:LOL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339347)

The brushed metal looks almost exactly like the casing of a Powerbook.

Brushed Metal Determining Factor (1)

st. jude (612033) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339322)

And these days it seems that brushed metal is being used for any app that doesn't generate documents. So Finder is brushed metal; iTunes/iPhoto/iMovie, which are for managing content, not creating it, are brushed metal; TextEdit and Mail are Aqua. Apple hasn't said this, but it seems to be part of the equation. We'll see what happens when the Office-killer update to AppleWorks comes out...

Re:Brushed metal (1)

Squareball (523165) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339230)

I'm disappointed that Apple has shut down the creator of yZdock!

Re:Brushed metal (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339261)

Perhaps calling it "Y'z Dock" was a mistake. The Afterstep folks understood, and called it a Wharf.

Now with nice images! (-1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339045)

They have some nice images available too.

They're talking to MAC users, you _need_ nice images to gain their attention.

Re:Now with nice images! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339102)

We all know that these [goatse.cx] are the sorts of "nice" images that Mac fags like.

Yours,

Steve Jobs, Esq.

Re:Now with nice images! (1)

The Infamous Grimace (525297) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339137)

No, they're talking to _Mac_ users. How many times must we go over this? 'Mac' is short for 'Macintosh', MAC is short for, well, numerous things.

(tig)
"We do not inherit the land from our ancestors"
"We borrow it from our children"

Re:Now with nice images! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339145)

Remember, "faggot" is the short form of "Macintosh User"

Re:Now with nice images! (1)

byolinux (535260) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339248)

Also, remember that *Apple* is the company, Mac is the product. Mac don't make Apple's and Apple Mac don't make them either! ;)

It pains me to think of the number of times I've had to explain that, even to sales droids...

Re:Now with nice images! (5, Funny)

Mikey-San (582838) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339186)

Pretty pictures are better than white, monospaced error text on a big blue background. ;-)

Brushed Metal window frames (4, Informative)

terraformer (617565) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339046)

I just hope Apple makes the brushed metal window frames optional/themeable/skinable etc. Apparently (as per a recent /. article as this one's /.'ed) they are not customizable and more importantly they are not just limited to Apple apps the way that Safari, et al is today in 10.2. All apps pick up the new look and some of us are not into that new look as much.

Re:Brushed Metal window frames (5, Informative)

Arslan ibn Da'ud (636514) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339097)

You can easily enable/disable the brushed-metal theme on OSX apps, Apple or third-party. See here [unsanity.com] for details.

Re:Brushed Metal window frames (3, Informative)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339234)

You don't absolutely need a third party app, in general, at least not for Cocoa apps or some OS X only Carbon apps.

Install the developer tools if you haven't already. Right click on the App you want to change, and select Show Package Contents. Go into Contents->Resources, and then look for .nib files both in that directory and the English.lproj (or whatever language you're using.)

By opening the .nibs, you can edit all aspects of the windows relating to them. Use the Info window to select/deselect the brushed metal theme.

FWIW, I think Safari looks better with the Aqua look.

Re:Brushed Metal window frames (5, Informative)

robbieduncan (87240) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339268)

In general this is true (it works on Safari on Panther for example). Unfortunatly the Finder.app bundle does not appear to contain a nib file for the main Finder window. It contains a load of other nibs though. It looks like the main windows are created programatically so are not as easy to swich back to aqua.

Re:Brushed Metal window frames (2, Informative)

bedheading (175574) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339128)

I'm running Panther and all applications do NOT use the brushed metal interface. Only apps that choose to do so, as it has always been. Give it a chance and I don't think the brushed metal look will bother you after 10 minutes or so. I think it makes the finder more distinctive and easier to use. My only complaint (and it's not a harsh one) is that there is a lot of wasted space in the finder window- they definitely could have made the design more efficient, but in the end it doesn't really matter, it's just a nit-pick.

Re:Brushed Metal window frames (1)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339129)

I'm running Brushed Metal right now on 10.2.6

Apple isn't going to ship the OS themeable since that might confuse users and make for more support calls - Now Ma'am, what theme are you in? Theme Ma'am, what color are the windows around all your shit?

Article in case of /. (-1, Informative)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339050)

Inside Panther: A look at the Finder and System, part one (images)
By Nick dePlume, Publisher and Editor in Chief

June 30, 2003 - This is the first installment of our "Inside Panther" series, covering Mac OS X Version 10.3. Check back frequently for additional Panther coverage. Today, we begin looking at updates to the Finder and System.

Before we begin our first report, one important note -- Panther includes a significant number of changes to the Finder and System. As such, we're splitting the Finder/System portion of our "Inside Panther" series into a number of separate parts. Today's report largely deals with the new Finder window, as well as a few notes about installation, but much, much more is in the pipeline.

One of the most significant changes in Panther is the revised Finder interface. The new Finder features the brushed-metal look from iTunes and a new Places sidebar along the left, with quick links to volumes and removable media at the top; and applications, files, and folders at the bottom. With these shortcuts, the Places sidebar replaces some of the previous functionality of the Finder toolbar.

To be quite clear: The brushed-metal look cannot be removed, and is not an "option" that can be switched with an Aqua Finder. However, the Places sidebar is not a required feature, by any means. By clicking on the widget at the upper right-hand corner of the Finder window, it is immediately removed, along with the toolbar. Additionally, the Finder toolbar can still be hidden from a menu, separately from hiding the Places sidebar.

In our screenshots, we show the three basic Finder views, both with and without the Places sidebar. As with Jaguar, Finder windows remember their appearance settings fairly well. While the format of a Places sidebar won't appeal to everyone, just as column view doesn't appeal to everyone, Apple is providing users with a number of ways to customize the look and function of windows. A user who simply wants a plain window with no toolbar or sidebar, with basic folder icons that open up new windows when clicked, like in Mac OS 9, can still do that.

The Places sidebar scales dynamically when Finder windows are resized. All of the items can be rearranged. Files, folders, and applications can be added to the bottom portion, customizing it individually, and files/folders can be moved or copied into folders and volumes that are on the list. However, files cannot be dragged into listed applications to open them in that application. Removable media are listed with a clickable "eject" button to the right.

The new Finder layout is also present in open/save dialog boxes, providing a consistent interface throughout the system.

The new Action menu is included by default in the Finder toolbar -- it does exactly what control-clicking or right-clicking does, by calling up a contextual menu.

File/folder labels can be added through the Action menu or the File menu, and are displayed as the background for the file name in both icon and column view. Both views have their own way of displaying the labels, which differs when the labeled files/folders are selected. See our collection of images for details.

Preview in Panther's column view now displays expanded information, as compared to Jaguar.

The new file search is indeed "live," similar to searching a library of iTunes music, but its response speed is, of course, less than that of searching an iTunes music library, and depends largely on the system. Searches can be applied to local disks, the Home directory, "everywhere," or just folders that have been selected in the Finder.

Icon selection is considerably different in Panther, giving folder and file names a blue background, and highlighting a square area around the icon instead of just highlighting the icon. This is also used, of course, when copying and moving files and folders.

A few quick notes on installation: As with Jaguar, Panther has two CDs, the second being an optional installation of additional applications and printer drivers. The default disk format is "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)," with the only other option being UFS. The installer notes that the WWDC Developer Preview of Panther cannot be upgraded to the final gold master release.

Additionally, the installation requirements in the read me file are not identical to the requirements for Jaguar: Panther now requires a Blue & White Power Mac G3, dropping support for the beige G3, and PowerBook G3s must have built-in USB.

Re:Article in case of /. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339139)

if ($article_text != "Post Anonymously")
{
$karma=whore;
}

Re:Article in case of /. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339212)

so sue me

This looks like a strong release (5, Interesting)

cuijian (110696) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339053)

I'm really excited about Panther. The finder screen shots make it look like they have really gotten file navigation right. Previous iterations were too geeky, exposing the average user to /Library, /System, and /Users when most people just want to get to their documents and applications.

Expose is a great example of the combination of Apple's design sense and what you can do with the Quartz compositing engine. Windows scale down so you can see all of your open windows, or all of the documents in an application. I don't think its even technically possible to do that on windows because they lack an alpha channel.

I've used iChat AV and it is soooo much better than windows messenger. Unlike messenger, which forces me to a single postage-stamp sized video window, I can scale my video to any size and even go full screen. Audio conferencing seems to be pretty clear and will be great for when I'm on dial-up or talking to someone w/o a camera.

I can't wait to see more.

Re:This looks like a strong release (5, Insightful)

Brother Grifter (16318) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339256)

Windows had an alpha channel since windows 2000. It's just not hardware accelerated like Jaguar (and soon Panther).

From what I've seen of Longhorn, it has abilities similar to Quartz Extreme. For example, they have a rippling window demo they showed at MS's last conference.

But how useful is rippling windows? I think in general, when it comes to technology, it's not a matter of who has the best tech, but who uses their tech in the most useful way, which Apple seems to do.

interesting (2, Funny)

Boromir son of Faram (645464) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339054)

I see that they don't touch on the 64- vs. 32-bit issue. Not surprising, since the 64-bit G5s aren't available yet. I'm curious as to how much of an impact that will make.

Also, as cool as Panther looks, I expect Jaguar to stick around for a while yet. I haven't seen anyone mention this, but I realized the other day that since Jaguar is fully 32-bit, you should be able to take 64-bit hardware and run two full instances of Jaguar on it in parallel. Give each instance its own CPU on a dual G5 system, and you have two fully functional OS X systems running in real time on a single boxen!

I wouldn't even be surprised to see Apple start shipping systems in this configuration. It's great for companies on a budget (and who isn't these days?).

Re:interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339114)

Dude, keep dreaming.

Re:interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339136)

i'm not sure it work this way. i don't think one 64-bit processor is the same as 2 32-bit processors. and with osX being 'unix' you can run multiple users, no? what is the advantage of having 2 instances of osx on one box???

Re:interesting (5, Funny)

platypus (18156) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339146)

I haven't seen anyone mention this, but I realized the other day that since Jaguar is fully 32-bit, you should be able to take 64-bit hardware and run two full instances of Jaguar on it in parallel.

Hmm, I'd like to know what kind of esoteric idea of "bitness" of cpus let's you conclude that.
At least, you seem to share it with one moderator.

Re:interesting (0, Offtopic)

BenjyD (316700) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339223)

Make that two moderators. What the hell has happened to Slashdot?

Re:interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339150)

what on earth are you talking about? do you have any idea how computers actually work?

I don't think it works that way. (3, Insightful)

MarcQuadra (129430) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339161)

I don't think it really works that way, but running two instances of any PPC OS should be easy with Mac-On-Linux. MOL is like VMWare for the PPC, you can open a full-speed non-emulated Classic session INSIDE Linux, you can also boot it to OSX. I'm pretty sure you could boot multiple sessions as well. With XFree you could even use a mac running linux as a multi-client Mac OS terminal server.

So what you're asking is already possible with 32-bit PPC systems.

Re:interesting (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339163)

I can't wait until I can run 8 copies of Commodore Basic on a G5.

Of course it'll never happen, because Steve Jobs insists on keeping the specs of his beloved "computers" secret, locked in a safe deep in his dungeon office, watched over by his gimp.

I hear there is a two year back log of Mac users waiting to be the gimp.

What the hell are you talking about? (-1, Troll)

SuperDuG (134989) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339169)

What company (on a budget) would pay $3000 for a personal computer?

Are you insane? Have you ever had to make an en massed purchase order before? 10 comps at this cost would be $30,000. When you can get a decent athlon system for $600 it's one fifth of the price.

No company in their right mind would think of this as a budget computer.

Re:interesting (1)

Znonymous Coward (615009) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339171)

That has got to be the dumbest idea I have ever heard... Ever!

Re:interesting (4, Funny)

avalys (221114) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339176)

Ok, it doesn't work that way. That's like saying two arms is better than one because you can reach things twice as far away.

Just like having two arms, having 64 bits is an advantage, but not for the reasons you state.

Re:interesting (3, Funny)

moonbender (547943) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339202)

Also, as cool as Panther looks, I expect Jaguar to stick around for a while yet. I haven't seen anyone mention this, but I realized the other day that since Jaguar is fully 32-bit, you should be able to take 64-bit hardware and run two full instances of Jaguar on it in parallel. Give each instance its own CPU on a dual G5 system, and you have two fully functional OS X systems running in real time on a single boxen!
Running two (32- or 64-bit) processes in parallel on a dual-CPU machine, okay. But running two 32-bit processes in parallel on one 64-bit CPU? Um, no, that's not how it works. In fact, it's so stupid an idea that I am willing to think that I am misreading your message and it's not even what you meant.

I'm also not sure why exactly a typical user would want to run two operating systems on a single machine, especially not if it's the same OS in both cases and none is virtual. Meh.

Re:interesting (0)

neric (106851) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339210)

I can't wait to do this! It will probably be easier and more rewarding than my project to turn my muscle car into 2 sport bikes. It will just take some a little soldering, two panther licences, a bunch of engineers, and magic.

Re:interesting (1)

Endareth (684446) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339265)

64 bit refers to the size of addresses that pointers can reference. Check out this HP site [hp.com] for an easy read summary of the differences.

Re:interesting (1)

Maudib (223520) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339341)

Hmmm..... Thats a really great idea. Should work too (ignore those jealous PC users who tell you its technically infeasable).

However, I would be concerned about Apple's legal department, as such an amazing prospect of running two 32bit operating systems on one 64bit cpu simultaneously is clearly destined to be the focal point of Steve's 04 Keynote.

Mac users, sweet, cuddly, but not to bright. They remind me of Golden Retrievers.

I love the Places sidebar! (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339058)

I just wish Apple would relent and implement a "cut & paste" paradigm. It is still very irritating to have to move files in a complex directory structure. You have to have many Finder windows open. Why not make it just like copy where you can select the file, go to the edit menu and click copy, and then navigate to where you want to paste the file? It makes things extremely less cluttered.

Now I know that in column view it is much easier to move a file within one windows. I do appreciate the way the window scrolls if you hold the file close to the edge of the Finder window. But still... :)

Re:I love the Places sidebar! (5, Funny)

nattt (568106) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339100)

Copy and paste works great. I've been using this forever with OS X.

Re:I love the Places sidebar! (0, Offtopic)

bailey34 (589016) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339153)

I'm sure that you can already do this in Jaguar...

Re:I love the Places sidebar! (1)

alien666 (623909) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339279)

XShelf [mac.com] allows one to break a move or copy in two steps by giving you a temporary holding pallete to which you can drag an icon or group of icons; but as others have mentioned, the copy/paste "hack" works, too.

summary (0, Offtopic)

freedommatters (664657) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339064)

perhaps it would have been better if the person submitting the link could have given us a longer summary before letting it get slashdotted. ah well. nothing to see here, move along.

Expose! (5, Interesting)

OmniVector (569062) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339068)

I've been using the Panther preview for about a week now. and I have to say that Expose is one of the coolest ideas in the past few years I've seen come out of apple.

It basically eliminates the need for multiple desktops. I'm sure you're probably saying: "Well why not just use multiple desktops in the first place." The best answer to that is, apple likes to make simple/easy to use software. Multiple desktops are too much of a poweruser feature, and are confusing to use for the first time for many -- and that first time is KEY to adoption (afterall, the first impression you get about something is most likely to be the most important). Much like apple's aversion to tabbed interfaces, though tabbed browsing is one of those exceptions apple can't get past because it's too entrenched in browsers today.

I can give you more info [otierney.net] but you're best looking at apple's preview [apple.com] .

Re:Expose! (4, Informative)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339112)

One of the underdocumented features of the dock is that if you Option-Command-Click any of the icons, all other windows are hidden and that app's items are unhidden. Of course, it's probably less nice for people using a seperate mouse (I have an IBM trackpoint keyboard.)

This was the final "I really don't need multiple desktops" shortcut for me. But you're right, it looks like Expose puts another nail in that coffin.

Re:Expose! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339141)

I can give you more info but you're best looking at apple's preview.

Perhaps you could give even more info by giving links that point directly to the pages you mention...

Re:Expose! (2, Informative)

OmniVector (569062) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339315)

my apologies. the links were supposed to go to the front page of my news, but my news page automatically archives articles every month! so since today is the first it didn't show up. here [apple.com] is a direct link to apple's expose info. and here [otierney.net] is a direct link to my news article.

This is the kind of feature that we want to see... (4, Interesting)

WIAKywbfatw (307557) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339188)

I've not seen it in action, but Expose strikes me as being the kind of feature that we want to see in our operating systems and applications - like most real software innovations, it's quick, simple and does something useful.

Features like tabbed browsing, mouse gestures, show desktop, context-sensitive help, tooltips, etc don't add to what you can acheive with your software but they do add to the richness of your user-experience by making software more flexible and user-friendly.

Very few computing tasks are truly intuitive - if you want proof of this, try putting a novice in front of a PC and watch them struggle with even the most basic concepts - but adding nice touches like this really do help users feel more at ease with their computers and more productive in the long run.

It's not earth-shattering stuff but it's stuff like this that's made today's software so much more accessible to the masses than it was 20 or even 10 years ago.

Re:Expose! (1)

Ender Ryan (79406) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339302)

I use multiple desktops so I can quickly switch between completely different tasks(eg. programming / graphic design). I may have 5 windows open for one task and 5 for another, so I keep them on separate desktops. Expose would not be a suitable replacement for that.

OTOH, don't get me wrong, Expose looks very, very nice, and would be very useful to me I think. I wish I had Expose for GNOME :)

Re:Expose! (1)

TomorrowPlusX (571956) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339336)

I have a question for you, since you've got panther.

I installed LightSwitchX ( http://www.proteron.com/liteswitchx/ ) since I really, *really* didn't like the default command-tab implementation in OSX. As a programmer I do a lot of switching back and forth between an editor and command line, and the default command-tab made that almost impossible. Sure, it was possible, but it was a pain.

So... I'm wondering... does panther provide a useful command tab implementation?

I know I might sound snarky here, but every OS I've used seriously ( I come from BeOS, then linux ) has used the traditional stacking-order based app switching, and the OSX way of using dock ordering seems, well, *broken* to me.

Oh, and one more thing -- how much 3rd party stuff does Panther break? See, I also make good use of fruit menu ( http://www.unsanity.com/haxies/fruitmenu/ ), since I like being able to put apps and folders into my apple menu (I got hooked on it when I spent a short time on Mac OS 8, long ago). Does Panther break 3rd party stuff like that?

OK, thanks in advance. I'm quite curious. I love OSX, and use it exclusively now. But frankly I've come to need lightswitch and fruitmenu to make the system "feel" right.

Move over Toms Hardware!!! (0, Flamebait)

SuperDuG (134989) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339076)

Installation, System Requirements, the Finder

Benchmarks and Real World Testing? For the birds, watch an AVI of a mouse cursor MOVING COUNTER CLOCKWISE!!! Load time and specs are anooying, lets get down to what really matters, installing solitare and using the finder!

Geeze come on, scree caps for an OS that really didn't change it's look?

Re:Move over Toms Hardware!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339318)

Geeze come on, scree caps for an OS that really didn't change it's look?

Umm...can't you read? The finder is brushed metal now. That's a pretty significant change in look. Expose is a new take on multiple desktops. Also, user switching is done graphically. Screenshots are a MUST for these features alone.

Geeze, come on. Fag.

Images (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339079)

"They have some nice images available too."

had

Mirror (0, Redundant)

Bob Wehadababyitsabo (629809) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339089)

Inside Panther: A look at the Finder and System, part one (images)
By Nick dePlume, Publisher and Editor in Chief

June 30, 2003 - This is the first installment of our "Inside Panther" series, covering Mac OS X Version 10.3. Check back frequently for additional Panther coverage. Today, we begin looking at updates to the Finder and System.

Before we begin our first report, one important note -- Panther includes a significant number of changes to the Finder and System. As such, we're splitting the Finder/System portion of our "Inside Panther" series into a number of separate parts. Today's report largely deals with the new Finder window, as well as a few notes about installation, but much, much more is in the pipeline.

One of the most significant changes in Panther is the revised Finder interface. The new Finder features the brushed-metal look from iTunes and a new Places sidebar along the left, with quick links to volumes and removable media at the top; and applications, files, and folders at the bottom. With these shortcuts, the Places sidebar replaces some of the previous functionality of the Finder toolbar.

To be quite clear: The brushed-metal look cannot be removed, and is not an "option" that can be switched with an Aqua Finder. However, the Places sidebar is not a required feature, by any means. By clicking on the widget at the upper right-hand corner of the Finder window, it is immediately removed, along with the toolbar. Additionally, the Finder toolbar can still be hidden from a menu, separately from hiding the Places sidebar.

In our screenshots, we show the three basic Finder views, both with and without the Places sidebar. As with Jaguar, Finder windows remember their appearance settings fairly well. While the format of a Places sidebar won't appeal to everyone, just as column view doesn't appeal to everyone, Apple is providing users with a number of ways to customize the look and function of windows. A user who simply wants a plain window with no toolbar or sidebar, with basic folder icons that open up new windows when clicked, like in Mac OS 9, can still do that.

The Places sidebar scales dynamically when Finder windows are resized. All of the items can be rearranged. Files, folders, and applications can be added to the bottom portion, customizing it individually, and files/folders can be moved or copied into folders and volumes that are on the list. However, files cannot be dragged into listed applications to open them in that application. Removable media are listed with a clickable "eject" button to the right.

The new Finder layout is also present in open/save dialog boxes, providing a consistent interface throughout the system.

The new Action menu is included by default in the Finder toolbar -- it does exactly what control-clicking or right-clicking does, by calling up a contextual menu.

File/folder labels can be added through the Action menu or the File menu, and are displayed as the background for the file name in both icon and column view. Both views have their own way of displaying the labels, which differs when the labeled files/folders are selected. See our collection of images for details.

Preview in Panther's column view now displays expanded information, as compared to Jaguar.

The new file search is indeed "live," similar to searching a library of iTunes music, but its response speed is, of course, less than that of searching an iTunes music library, and depends largely on the system. Searches can be applied to local disks, the Home directory, "everywhere," or just folders that have been selected in the Finder.

Icon selection is considerably different in Panther, giving folder and file names a blue background, and highlighting a square area around the icon instead of just highlighting the icon. This is also used, of course, when copying and moving files and folders.

A few quick notes on installation: As with Jaguar, Panther has two CDs, the second being an optional installation of additional applications and printer drivers. The default disk format is "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)," with the only other option being UFS. The installer notes that the WWDC Developer Preview of Panther cannot be upgraded to the final gold master release.

Additionally, the installation requirements in the read me file are not identical to the requirements for Jaguar: Panther now requires a Blue & White Power Mac G3, dropping support for the beige G3, and PowerBook G3s must have built-in USB.

Think Secret's Panther News Coverage

Do you have a question about Panther that you'd like answered? A screenshot request? Something you'd like us to look at? Email us..

Please first check our past coverage to see if your question has already been answered or if the screenshots you seek have already been posted. Additionally, if there's something newsworthy that we've missed in any of our reports, please drop us a line. As we continue to publish our "Inside Panther" series, we appreciate your tips and inside information, particularly as new pre-release builds are seeded. Keeping us informed helps to keep tens of thousands of Mac users informed.

Some interesting questions (5, Interesting)

Dark Paladin (116525) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339093)

1. Since the filesystem is journaled by default, can you turn it off later for a speed increase, or is this part of Panther's necessary tweaks?

2. The searching system - does it maintain some sort of small database in the background to keep things fast, or just start off with a "find" style command?

3. Right now, you can't seem to drag documents onto the Application Icons on the left side to have them open automatically - any chance of that changing?

Otherwise, the OS is looking pretty good. I still spend most of my time in either a development tool or the command line, so I'm not that big into Finder and the like. (A good old ~/do[TAB]/pro[TAB] gets me to my ~/Documents/Projects folder quite fast enough).

But I do like the idea of when you select an icon, the entire square around it highlights. I've had too many times I've selected image files, and since OS X makes little thumbnail images of the picture the icon symbol, sometimes it's hard to tell if you've selected it or not (especially if the picture is already composed of dark shades).

And labels - I never used OS 9 before (I'm a Linux2OSX convert), so I never got the big deal. But if they're bright and noticable like that, I can see using them to color code my personal/work/Gameforms.com stuff for quick picking.

The one thing I'm curious to look into is the Xcode development program - from the preview, it looks pretty quick and useful. Think Secret doesn't cover that here, and probably won't, but the Xcode is the #1 thing I'd like to play with.

I'd also like to see the "auto-encrypt your Home directory" talked about. From a security standpoint, I'd like to know just how that works, how much processor power it takes up in the background (hm - explains why we may need a G5, ne?). I have a group of guys at the place I work at who are into Penetration Testing, and they're thinking about going OS X - and this Encrypted Home Directory system might be useful to them. (Especially if you can tell the OS what other directories other than /User/username to encrypt.)

Directory encryption already availiable (4, Informative)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339172)

Here's [macosxhints.com] at least one way do encrypt your home directory in Jaguar - a little less tricky is encrypting only particular directories like you speak of. I believe it is done by mounting an encrypted volume, so if you don't log in no other user will be able to see the directory contents.

I think in Panther they just made this feature accessible "to the rest of us" with no trickery to make it work. Perhaps they wanted to wait for a journaled file system to make this feature official, lest people accidentally corrupt a whole encrypted directory bundle...

Re:Some interesting questions (2, Informative)

bedheading (175574) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339192)

I've installed Panther onto 2 different boxes and during both installations HFS+ (not journaled) was an available option, and that is what I chose... I don't see how everyone is being forced to use HFS+ with journaling, because that was not my experience at all. On one box, I formatted the HD, and I installed onto an existing partition with the other. In neither circumstance was a journaled FS required..

Re:Some interesting questions (1)

Mikey-San (582838) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339224)

Did anyone else snicker at "penetration testing"?

No, I have no class.

Re:Some interesting questions (1)

TheDredd (529506) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339274)

Otherwise, the OS is looking pretty good. I still spend most of my time in either a development tool or the command line, so I'm not that big into Finder and the like. (A good old ~/do[TAB]/pro[TAB] gets me to my ~/Documents/Projects folder quite fast enough)

I think a lot of people underestimate the power of the Finder.
For example if you put your projects folder in your Toolbar, it's just one click away.
I have two column views, with all the important links in my toolbar, and it's all I ever need. I have the toolbar set to text only mode to save screen space, and set the finder to never ever open in a new window. Works like a charm

Re:Some interesting questions (2, Interesting)

instantkarma1 (234104) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339306)

>2. The searching system - does it maintain some sort of >small database in the background to keep things fast, or >just start off with a "find" style command?

This probably uses the same mechanism that was used in OS 9 and was still used in OS X for Find By Content....Indexing. While indexing the entire hard drive was a real performance drag, in OS 9 you could schedule it to run when the computer was likely not being used (as is 2am on Sunday morning). In OS X, the Find By Content (FBC) indexing occurred each time you navigated into a directory via the Finder. If no previous index has been created, one was then made. If an index did in fact exist, it merely updated it.

So, to sum...no small database, lots of little indexes everywhere.

Panther doesn't run on G5's (2, Interesting)

klyX (116477) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339103)

have word from apple that the reason G5's aren't being rolled out yet is that Panther won't run on them. The machines are ready to go but there's no OS to run on them.

The version of OSX that will ship with the G5's is 10.2.7, which has backwards hacks of 10.3 stuff like expose ... which is an incredible trick btw.

No wonder... (2, Funny)

dereklam (621517) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339105)

I was surfing around MacRumors and ThinkSecret today, and I hit the ThinkSecret article. The article didn't come up, and I thought ThinkSecret was down.

Now I know the real reason...

XCode Screencaps (5, Informative)

evil carrot (669874) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339130)

This Funmac.com thread [funmac.com] has a bunch of shots of the new XCode development package. Both Project Builder and Interface Builder are featured at great length.

My unanswered questions. (2, Interesting)

A moron (37050) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339133)

I haven't found the answer to these questions regarding panther:

I've seen no mention of specifics related to VPN support in Panther. Apple claims IPSec support. However, 10.2 has IPSec support, just no front-end. Is there a front-end for establishing an IPSec tunnel in Panther? It sounds like maybe this is integrated into the Internet Connect app?

Jobs touted updates to Mail.app but didn't mention whether you can actually do a more advanced search. The current search functionality stinks in comparison to other email clients which allow you to give any number of criteria. Has the search in Mail been improved?

Is X11 still a stand alone application in Panther or is more integrated with the OS?

The Apple Panther page says "support for popular Linux APIs". Any indication of what this means?

Is NetInfo still used as the centralized database for all OS resources or have they finally replaced it with LDAP?

Re:My unanswered questions. (1)

bedheading (175574) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339272)

X11 is still a stand-alone application located in the utilities directory, and it is not installed by default- you have to manually choose the package when customizing your install.

OK, so you've got a new Finder... (3, Interesting)

hrbrmstr (324215) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339180)

As the rest of the song goes "that don't impress me much".

I'm a recent "switchbacker" (used Mac from Plus to early PowerMac's and just got a dual G4). Since it's a ".#" release, I wasn't expecting a ton of major changes (since that should be a "#." release). However, this is the second review I've seen that spends the majority of it's time on the Finder. Wow. A new Finder.

I know things are different in Mac land (one reason I switched back), but not being an insider or able to attend the conference (hence, no preview copy), I'd really love to start seeing more authoritative articles on what kinds of 64-bit goodness is there for the G5's or a thorough coverage of what cool parts of FreeBSD 5 made it into Darwin/X.

Granted, it's a different perspective (I'm perfectly happy cd'ing and ls'ing from a terminal). Perhaps most Mac folks will be cheering a decent upgrade to their main view of the system.

I can't help thinking, tho, that alot of Mac /.'ers will want the inside skinny as opposed to hearing that the Finder can't be skinned (tho that's a fun complaint since I'd rather not stare at brushed metal all the time either).

Re:OK, so you've got a new Finder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339351)

Actually, it *is* a "#." release. Only, Apple's numbering system for OS X is a little... unusual. Version 1 of OS X was "10.0", version 2 was "10.1"... Panther, billed as "Mac OS X 10.3" is actually version 4. If you're waiting for Mac OS X 11.0 then you'll wait a long time - at the current rate of updates, they won't get there until 2010!

The new finder already exists! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339208)

Its called 'ls, cd rm, cp, chmod, and mv'!

1 WEEK WITH PANTHER (5, Informative)

zensmile (78430) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339259)

I have been using Panther for a week and have found many good improvements.

1. File browser (a la windows) is fast and can be changed back to a "normal" window.

2. Expose is brilliant. Though it may conflict with the screensaver settings when corners are used. I personally like using the f-keys for expose and the corners for the screensaver (activation and deactivation).

3. Faxing is as easy as printing and saving as PDF. You can also have received faxes mailed or printed. Faxing is very very easy in 10.3.

4. Preview.app is faster and works in a similar fashion as Acrobat Reader. Nice.

5. Fast user switching is just brilliant (graphically). It will be very useful when you have a shared machine.

6. Secure "Empty Trash" is a nice feature. I am not sure if I will use it...but someone in my office thinks it is the Holy Grail. I am not that excited about it...but it is probably useful.

7. Color Coded Folders/Files (the text is color coded in actuality) is nice and saves me time when digging for a file or group of files.

8. The "eject" menu icon in the right hand side of the menu bar is interesting. But it only worked with the drive tray. It would be nice if it would eject mounted items and servers.

9. User customization of desktop pics and colors is refined and much friendlier.

10. The print center is much improved.

This is the bad stuff...

1. The fax feature did not integrate well with the address book. BUT...you can have one machine as the dedicated fax machine and all other computers in the office can fax through it.

2. Some photoshop filter controls did not draw correctly on the screen or didn't show up at all.

3. There seemed to be some cut and paste clipboard errors. It seemed to show up in Safari and the Address Book.

4. Quicken 2003 seems to have strange behavior when used in 10.3. But it is usable.

Features that will hopefully show up in the actual release:

1. Piles. I know they seem trivial. But I would like it.

2. Themes. I really like the idea of customizing my OS and maybe tone down Aqua a bit.

3. Multiple docks. One for office apps. One for games. One for graphical/web apps. And in the darkness bind them... ;-P Just being silly.

I know this is a preview release...but it is very stable and usable. I cannot wait until the actual release. The fax sharing and abilities are worth the price of the upgrade. The rest is just gravy. My $.02.

Open/save dialog boxes vs Finder? (5, Interesting)

Arslan ibn Da'ud (636514) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339271)

The new Finder layout is also present in open/save dialog boxes, providing a consistent interface throughout the system.

I *really* want to see a screenshot of this! (would y'all please stop /.ing the article? :) One pet peeve I've had with Macs is the disparity between the Finder and the open/save dialogs you get from regular software. Course this problem exists on Windows and Linux too, but the Mac finder is much nicer, and so the disparity is more pungent on a Mac.

I've just had too many stints where a newbie saves a file (using a save dialog) and then can't find it. Because the finder looks different. Heck, I've used these things for 20 years and I sometimes lose files myself (must be getting senile).

I REALLY want better integration with open/save dialogs so my mother can find any file she happens to save!

Re:Open/save dialog boxes vs Finder? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339300)

Just look at the GTK file dialog for inspiration....

Piles? (3, Interesting)

rleyton (14248) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339309)

What happened to the "piles" document management system [slashdot.org] that was mentioned previously?

Anybody know? I was looking forward to hearing more about this, but fear it's fallen by the wayside...

Saddening (5, Insightful)

wackoman2112 (685339) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339310)

It saddens me to see such so much anti-Apple sentiment in this discussion. I am mainly a PC user, and I probably will always be a PC user, for reasons I won't bring up here, but I've used Apples before and they aren't bad computers. For example, the video and multimedia capabilities on MacOS can be matched nowhere else. And my short encounters with MacOS X have been very enjoyable.

So take this anti-appleism elsewhere. You're ruining the experience for others.

What the new finder means to you (potentially) (2, Insightful)

Brat Food (9397) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339313)

Ill paste in my letter to macintouch:
Potential connection between the advanced file system developed at Be Inc. (BFS) and Apple's new Finder for Panther:

Reference these two URLs for some background:
Tales of a BeOS Refugee [osnews.com]
Windows on a Database - Sliced and Diced by BeOS Gurus [theregus.com]
I think, in terms of the new Finder, it's time for a paradigm shift. First, note that Apple hired the guys mentioned in the articles above. Second, realize that the demo of "live" searches is most certainly because of the efforts of the BFS people. Third, realize that you could, in theory, never have to look thru another folder again. If you take some of the ideas the BFS people had, everything would be context-based. Having a database back-end to your Finder, with unlimited "meta data" (actually, the start of this, I beleive, was shown, in the form of labels), could provide, as one of the engineers put it, a kind of "google" interface to your data. Just some things to chew on while we watch the new Finder evolve.
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