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Bill Gates On Linux

CmdrTaco posted more than 11 years ago | from the stuff-to-read dept.

Microsoft 1194

King-of-darkness writes "USA Today had an interview with Bill Gates on june the 30th. Gates seems to be considering Linux as a passing thru competition just like OS/2., and That Microsoft are the ones that keep pushing new technologies."

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Typical (5, Funny)

cageyjames (642932) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339904)

(-1) for Bill Gates for being a Troll

I wonder (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339927)

if the first 2 posters on a topic have ever had their numbers be as close as these two are...

6339904 and 6339908

Re:Typical (5, Funny)

Uatu (316549) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340036)

(-1) for Bill Gates for being a Troll

Does this means I can actually ignore the article and not feel guilty when I post about it ?

Great! That's a first...

Re:Typical (2, Funny)

krisp (59093) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340059)

"No computer will ever need more then 640kb of system memory" -- Bill Gates.

Yah, and Linux isn't competition either.

But... (5, Insightful)

2names (531755) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339908)

"passing through" technologies don't last as long as Linux has already.

Re:But... (4, Interesting)

Roto-Rooter Man (520267) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339940)

OS/2... 1988-2002. This is shorter than Linux how?

Oh, for Christ's sake (0, Troll)

2names (531755) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339964)

OS/2 hasn't been a player for many, many years. Accept it and move on.

Re:Oh, for Christ's sake (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339989)

Neither has Linux. It's had, what, 3 years of being slightly important so far? OS/2 had many more.

Re:Oh, for Christ's sake (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340055)

There years in desktops, maybe, but it's been a important player in servers longer than that.

If you think (2, Insightful)

2names (531755) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340074)

Linux is only "slightly important" then you have no business connecting to the Internet and no idea how many servers are running this OS. While Linux may not matter much on the desktop right now, it is absolutely KEY in the server market.

Now, turn around, pull your thumb out of your ass, and read something educational.

Re:But... (2, Interesting)

aallan (68633) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339987)

OS/2... 1988-2002. This is shorter than Linux how?

Oh come on! OS/2 was dead in not long after Warp got released, which was what, '95 or '96? The banks still used it, but nobody else did, everybody knew it was on the way out.

Al.

Re:But... (5, Informative)

Dot.Com.CEO (624226) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340081)

Let me assure you, lots of banks STILL use OS/2 and they will do so for the foreseable future. The fact that you don't use os/2 does not mean it is dead. It is as dead as Fortran and Cobol.

Re:But... (5, Interesting)

laserjet (170008) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340062)

I wouldn't say OS/2 lived to 2002... it certainly was not completely dead, but it was nearly non-existenet in the early to mid nineties except in specialized markets like bank computer.

linux had had about the same lifespan (1988-1994 = 6 years), but is still strongly growing and showing some ballz, and the community is much bigger than the OS/2 community was, at least online (a rought comparison, as OS/2 was largely before the internet wave).

not to mention that MS basically partered with IBM on OS/2, then back-stabbed them while secretly working on a competeting OS (windows).

Those who don't learn history (or choose to ignore it) are bound to repeat it, Bill.

I liked this part (5, Funny)

missing000 (602285) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340028)

Bill Gates: Well those are our current competitors. I mean, it's no different than in the past people used [IBM's operating system] OS/2.

USA TODAY: Nobody used OS/2.

Re:But... (1)

Acts of Attrition (635948) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340039)

Let him call it a "passing through" technology all he wants. The worse he talks about Linux, the sweeter it will be for all of us when it bites him in the ass.
To him Linux is just "passing through" to us it's "Pass it along"

Re:But... (5, Insightful)

bladernr (683269) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340052)

That depends on what you call a "passing thru" technology.

CORBA has been around since at least 1991 (longer, I think), and most agree that it beat Microsoft in the DCOM-CORBA "Object Wars" (as evidenced by Microsoft moving on to Web Services). Although CORBA now provides the underlying technology for things such as J2EE, it is largely gone as far as a standalone technology. Was CORBA "passing thru" or was/is it a real technology?

OS/2 was also around for quite a number of years, and was until very recently an actual product. Great OS, IMHO. If we want to define Linux as being around long enough to not be "passing thru", then that applies to OS/2 as well.

DR-DOS? PC-DOS? Microsoft outlived them both. Or, to be fair, Microsoft did what it does best, redefined the game.

Mac OS? Doesn't get me started (although I like to think its making a comeback with OS X... made me a convert... UNIX OS with great apps and interface)

Now, I'm no defender of Microsoft, but I think what Bill Gates was probably saying was "Hey, we've faced down stiff competition before, and won. How is this different?" On that point, I have to agree. Maybe they will lose this time, but they have definatly been down this road before and know a little something about smashing threats.

(no, this is not a troll. My favorite OS'es are Linux and Mac OS. Just trying to credit where its due)

And don't forget about! (2, Funny)

mrpuffypants (444598) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339913)

Let's be serious. I mean, we've had to bet the company many times on big technological advances. We bet on the 16-bit PC. We bet on graphical user interface. We bet on the NT technology base. Now we're in the process of betting on a combination of technologies called .Net; Longhorn Web services go along with that.

And who had the guts to teach all of us about data loss, crashes, blue screens, and monopolies?

Thanks Microsoft!

Re:And don't forget about! (4, Insightful)

kalidasa (577403) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339970)

We bet on graphical user interface.

Funny, I seem to remember that someone else had already proven the GUI in the market when MS "bet" on it.

Re:And don't forget about! (4, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340045)

Several somebodies had actually.

Microsoft was the LAST person to the party when it came to the GUI. The same thing goes for "NT" technology. Billy is still trying to effectively replicate both MacOS and OS/2.

Re:And don't forget about! (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340072)

Oh yes. "Pear computers" or something ike that. I remember them betting on a 32-bit architecture instead of 16-bit. Needed far fewer hacks to get to work when true 32-bit machines came out.

freaky (2, Interesting)

TWX (665546) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340006)

The other interesting thing to note is that the first two cited "yay us!" entries are for types of technology, and the latter three, NT, .net, and Longhorn, are all marketing terms. So, rather than focus on saying things like 'improving video throughput', 'improving hardware abstraction', or 'developing more rhobust parallel computing', they are descending into marketing bull.

What's scariest is that since Bill is at the forefront (even if Ballmer is CEO) and has succumbed to this, it's further demonstrating Microsoft's continued rotting from the top; no signs of abetting it.

Bush was elected (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340023)

"Thanks Microsoft!
Re-Appoint Bush! [gwbush.com] "


Get over it! Move on! Bush was elected just the same as his predecessors by winning enough states to get enough electoral votes.

Re:Bush was elected (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340064)

No - by winning enough judges to get enough electoral votes.

Re:And don't forget about! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340063)

Well Bill, you know happens when you bet to often.... The house eventually wins.

new? (5, Funny)

kmac06 (608921) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339914)

...and That Microsoft are the ones that keep pushing new technologies. This is obviously some use of the word 'new' with which I am not familiar.

Re:new? (2, Funny)

Jonsey (593310) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339936)

Yes, that's common.

It's either "new" as in GNU/Linux or "new" as in the African animal.

OS/2!! (0, Offtopic)

NitroPye (594566) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339916)

OS/2 Delivers!

Uhm, yeah. (5, Insightful)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339917)


This is the guy that managed to overlook the internet when he wrote The Road Ahead in 1995.

Re:Uhm, yeah. (4, Funny)

bstadil (7110) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339982)

or thought that a real breakthru would be an algorithm to factor large PRIME numbers.

Re:Uhm, yeah. (1)

laserjet (170008) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339993)

Did he really? I was going to buy that book, but never did. Can someone that read it give me the jist of what the "road ahead" consisted of?

Al Gore invented the Internet (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340083)

"This is the guy that managed to overlook the internet when he wrote The Road Ahead in 1995."

Silly, this was before Al Gore invented it.

Ingoring the threat (0)

Dr Tall (685787) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339926)

If Gates thinks he can ignore Linux and make it dissappear, he's quite mistaken.

Re:Ingoring the threat (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339971)

Thank you for quite possibly the most moronic sheep comment on Slashdot. Ever.

Re:Ingoring the threat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340017)

You know what? You're right. Gates doesn't even need to waste his effort ignoring Linux for it to dissappear.

It's a failure all on its own.

What did you expect? (5, Funny)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339928)

Lets see, chief shareholder of MS (which competes with Linux), in a PR interview claims that they are better, and linux will go away.

What do you expect people? Bill Gates annouces that Linux is pretty damn good and may give it a whirl, in other news MS stock drops 50%.

This is just bait to get you guys all riled up. Welcome to PR.

I compare it to this... (3, Interesting)

Kjella (173770) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340088)

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. (Mahatma Gandhi)

This gives me an idea how far along Linux is in competing with Windows. No, I wasn't expecting Gates to bow down to Llnux, but there's many ways of claiming you're better.

Kjella

Dick (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339931)

Dick was obsessed with his dick.
He would beat off at least three times a day:
In the morning, when he woke up,
Right after or right before dinner,
And right before he went to sleep.
If he didn't get in his three daily beat-off sessions,
He was a pain in the ass to be around.
He jerked off to tv-
Especially Mary Tyler Moore and Dynasty and Charlie's Angels;
He pulled his pud to porno books;
He even jerked off
To the underwear ads
In the magazine section of the Sunday New York Times.
If you were a girl, talking to him on the phone,
Chances are he was beating his meat to the sound of your voice.
'Cause coming was his raison d'etre.
One time he was in the middle of jerking off to Vanna White on Wheel of Fortune When a job offer came to him over the phone
And he needed a job bad
But he told the man he'd call him right back,
'Cause he needed to come more than he needed the job.
And it wasn't that he was ugly or afraid of women or
anything like that
He just honestly preferred his right hand.
I saw him the other day,
And he told me that last friday he was with two girls at their place
And they both wanted him to stay over.
But he went home,
Called up another girl,
and jacked off while talking to her.
I don't know why he tells me this shit.
Dick's a fucked up guy.

Yeah.... (4, Funny)

TedTschopp (244839) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339934)

They keep bring us new stuff like MS-Bob.... and Clippy... and...

Oh I don't want to have all the fun, you can come up with some...

What other new innovative things has Microsoft done that really were flops.

Re:Yeah.... (1)

devnull17 (592326) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339998)

Ironically, OS/2.

Re:Yeah.... (1)

TWX (665546) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340067)

Of course, they got rid of OS/2 because it wasn't entirely their baby from the get-go, was too stable, and wouldn't have guaranteed the string of frustrated upgrades that users have been forced into buying.

Re:Yeah.... (5, Insightful)

hendridm (302246) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340004)

> They keep bring us new stuff like MS-Bob.... and Clippy...

Of all the stuff they've released in multiple markets over the past two decades, all you can find to troll with are Microsoft Bob (an application from 1995) and Clippy. Seems to me they might not be doing so bad after all. Why not compare modern versions of MS apps to versions of Mac OS or Linux from 1995 then?

I love Linux, but the Microsoft Bob troll is so crusty, like no mistakes were made with Linux or OS X over the years...

OS/2?? (4, Insightful)

MyHair (589485) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339935)

Silly Bill, did he forget that Microsoft and IBM partnered on OS/2?

Off to RTFA to find out....

Re:OS/2?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339991)

He probably thinks on that issue as Microsoft pretending to join with IBM on OS/2 in order to sink them so Windows would come out on top.

Re:OS/2?? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340009)

Not to mention that NT is built on OS/2 Technology. Which means 2000 is Built on OS/2 technology. How else could a corrupted MBR cause an "OS/2!!" error?

Anyone remember those? hmmmmmmm

subbing articles on himself (5, Interesting)

pytheron (443963) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339938)

What is Bill Gates doing submitting stories under his pseudonym (king-of-darkness) ? Anyways, an interesting bit in the article I thought was:

BG: Are you kidding? I mean, let's be serious. That was IBM, a company 15 times our size. Name a bank that didn't use OS/2. OS/2 was IBM's product, and the IBM army marched behind that product.

Now replace IBM with Microsoft, and OS/2 with windows. Not so clever now Mr. Gates !

Linux is bigger. (1)

mmol_6453 (231450) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340029)

I suspect Linux, in terms of developer/tester count, is larger than Microsoft. Think about it. Linux bugs are submitted by anyone who can find them. Microsoft only accepts bug reports from people who pay-per-incident to report them.

He is correct (4, Insightful)

dnoyeb (547705) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339944)

He is right. Windows is pusing the technologies. Pushing them in the way they desire. nevertheless, they are. Linux has a long way to go for smooth MultiMedia usage.

Nevertheless, he is only right for now. Linux is a locomotive, and its only picking up steam.

Re:He is correct (1, Funny)

mhore (582354) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340012)

Windows is pusing the technologies.

Can you do that in public? ;-)

Mike.

Re:He is correct (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340030)

You're kidding me right? The only reason I still have my Linux box is because it's a better PVR (using MythTV) than any Windows box is. I don't even use Linux as my primary OS (OS X fits that bill). But Linux rocks at multimedia for the enduser now, and because of that it's found a place on my LAN.

Maybe if Microsoft Developed for Linux (4, Insightful)

cloudscout (104011) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339954)

OS/2 was once a joint product between IBM and Microsoft. In fact, I have an old OS/2 book with a foreword by Bill Gates himself where he refers to OS/2 as "the future of computing". That is why NT originally had an OS/2 subsystem and supported the HPFS filesystem from OS/2.

With Linux, Microsoft has never had its hand in the pie. They have never had any control over its development. Linux bears no similarity to OS/2 as a competing technology. To suggest it is just wishful thinking on Bill Gates part.

This is USA Today (5, Insightful)

Elwood P Dowd (16933) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339955)

The magazine with the widest readership in the nation. It probably has the lowest reader-IQ-average as a direct result. The last thing Mr. G wants to happen is for your PHB to read USA Today and think, "Huh. This Linux thing is a big deal."

So, here he says it isn't a big deal. I'm sure that in real life, he cares a great deal about it.

Re:This is USA Today (4, Funny)

seanmeister (156224) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340060)

And just to prove it, there's a big banner ad running on top of the article for the eMode IQ test [usatoday.com] ...

where'd they get that picture? (2, Funny)

utexaspunk (527541) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339959)

it must've taken a lot of photoshop work to edit out the doobie and the smoke...

Never mind that one (1)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340086)

I want to see a shot of him at a formal event -- wearing a tux!

Of course (1)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339960)

What did you expect Bill Gates to say? "Ohmygawd, it's going to kick our butts"?

If "Microsoft are the ones that keep pushing new technologies," those new technologies sure seem to push back.

Forbidden words in the precence of Gates (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339963)

Pffffft! Dont use the "L" word!

Titanic (1)

MonkeyDluffy (577002) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339965)

Didn't they say the same thing about the Titanic? It's only a glancing blow, nothing to worry....

-MDL

News flash - Bill Gates downplays linux (5, Insightful)

Radon Knight (684275) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339968)

> Gates seems to be considering Linux as a passing
> thru competition just like OS/2.

Well, what would you expect him to say? That Linux may (if people get their act together) start threatening Windows on the desktop, and that people are really not fond of Microsoft's draconian licensing schemes and forced inclusion of DRM in their products?

A newspaper interview with a businessman is nothing more than an opportunity for free advertising. You don't think Bill knows that?

History repeats (1)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339972)

Gates seems to be considering Linux as a passing thru competition just like OS/2., and That Microsoft are the ones that keep pushing new technologies

I'm sure the IBM zealots said the same thing at the time. Probably even snickered, too.

Microsoft's WMD (4, Funny)

Alpha_Nerd (565637) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339973)

Microsoft's secret weapon of mass destruction: http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3

Re:Microsoft's WMD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340061)

ROFLMAO! So true, though. So true.

July 1st? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339978)

Must be some kind of July Fool's day. Just wait for that story on the evil bit.

Nobody used OS/2? (5, Insightful)

utahjazz (177190) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339980)

I gotta agree with Bill's reaction on that one. The interviewer lost all credibility when he said that. He's one of those people that thinks he knows the technology market because he uses technology, which at best only tells you about consumer technology.

None of his friends used OS/2 so nobody used it. I guess nobody uses mainframes either, and the Internet was invented 10 years ago.

That's true in USA, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339986)

..Linux is gaining more popularity in Germany, Korea and India.

I think Microsoft will keep its monopoly in such countries as USA, France or Great Britain, that's all

mirror of article (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339988)

Gates on Linux
USA TODAY:There seems to be some worry at Microsoft about Linux and some of these Web-based things like Sim Desk that have popped up. Houston, Munich, and Beijing have all been considering using Linux-based products rather than going through Microsoft. How much of this is a concern?
Linux is the current OS competition, but it's no more threatening than OS/2. Remember OS/2?
By H. Darr Beiser, USA TODAY

Bill Gates: Well those are our current competitors. I mean, it's no different than in the past people used [IBM's operating system] OS/2.

USA TODAY: Nobody used OS/2.

BG: Are you kidding? I mean, let's be serious. That was IBM, a company 15 times our size. Name a bank that didn't use OS/2. OS/2 was IBM's product, and the IBM army marched behind that product. People always think today's competition is somehow different and unique in some way. Let's be serious. I mean, we've had to bet the company many times on big technological advances. We bet on the 16-bit PC. We bet on graphical user interface. We bet on the NT technology base. Now we're in the process of betting on a combination of technologies called .Net; Longhorn Web services go along with that. You always have to do something very dramatic to move things up to the next level. Who has the guts and the willingness to do risk-taking to get ink into the standard user interface? Who else is going to push that forward? Who else has the guts to get speech, get the recognition levels up, get the learning levels up in the standard interface? We've chosen to do that. If we didn't believe in those things we wouldn't be increasing the R&D budget the way that we are.

USA TODAY: There has been some criticism of the way in which you're been competing against Linux, and in The New York Times, assuming it was accurate, reporting that the e-mails in Europe talked about undercutting Linux at any cost, per se. How do you react to that, and where do you cross the line of that going back to some of the behaviors that surfaced in the Justice Department case?

BG: Well I'm not sure what you mean by undercutting. We will never have a price lower than Linux, in terms of just what you charge for the software. We compete on the basis of, if you look at the value you get out of the system and the overall cost that the system has that apply in our software. For any project, if you look at communications costs, hardware costs, personnel costs, all that, software licensing ranges -- the highest you'd ever find is, like, 3% of any IT-type project. And so the question is can that 3% [compensate], in terms of how quickly you get the system set up? How much value you get out of that system, can it justify itself in that way? And that's the business that we're in every day.

USA TODAY: On May 14th, Orlando Ayala [Microsoft's senior VP for the Small and Midmarket Solutions & Partner Group, which aims to introduce Microsoft products to smaller companies and purchasers] in his e-mails authorizing him to draw from a special fund to offer the software set discounts or even free if necessary, under no circumstances lose against Linux. Has Microsoft changed its behavior patterns?

BG: The idea is that we're in a competitive situation, that we're willing to provide a better price. This is not a general problem. This is about education situations, and educational bids are very, very price sensitive, and we've always provided super low pricing for education. We're actually providing even lower pricing now for education then we ever have, but it's been unique pricing for us, literally since the company was founded. And yeah, we, on educational bids, we will meet competition. That's considered healthy pro-competitive behavior.

USA TODAY: Is there a scenario by which you would at some point consider porting Microsoft applications into Linux?

BG: There's no consideration of that at this point.

Re:mirror of article (1)

DrRiffic (52953) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340027)

you really think USATODAY.com is going to be slashdotted?

Extremely ironic... (5, Insightful)

Noryungi (70322) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339990)

In the article, he basically says that few companies have the guts to innovate, and that Microsoft does this constantly...

Surprise: Xerox did that way before Microsoft ever thought about it. And Bill himself only thought about it when he saw one of the first demo model of the Apple Lisa (if I remember well). And that's just one example among many.

Microsoft never innovated: it just latched on all the good ideas. GUIs, ACLs, www browsers, spreadsheet, heck, even the mouse was invented by somebody else.

So, what kind of "innovations" has been created by Microsoft? Maybe Clippy. But that's it, and we all know how helpful that is...

And for those who may believe that Microsoft improved on all of these, I have just four words for you: Blue... Screen... Of... Death.

Whew! Enough ranting. You can start modding me down, now.

Dear Bill (4, Funny)

Spackler (223562) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339995)

Bill,

I am using Linux. Send me 8 copies of 2003 Advanced Server (under the GPL of course) for the same price, and I will be happy to switch.

spack

Finally, an interview with Gates! (4, Interesting)

PhysicsGenius (565228) | more than 11 years ago | (#6339996)

Mr Gates,

Given that UNIX technology has been around for almost 40 years now and the Linux implementation of that standard in particular has been with us for 12 or 13 years, wouldn't it be fair to call Windows, the first 32 bit versions of which have only been with us for 8 years, the passing fad?

Arrogance. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6339997)

What a lightweight interview, the interviewer should have pushed Gates on his desire to leverage DRM as an anti piracy measure to lock down an open hardware platform.

Of course it's a different situation.... (2, Informative)

403Forbidden (610018) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340001)

In the OS2/Windows battle they were both retail packages, and one crashed much more than the other.

With the Linux/Windows battle you have an open source, cheap, stable, varied and fully customizeable system vs. a repeat of the same old win2k base... no matter what crappy name you throw on it. Also, Linux ditros don't have crappy software licences which i'm sure nobody likes.

Microsoft is blind to view this as the same battle as OS/2. They are underestimating their opponent and it will be their eventual downfall.

The Ultimate Dupe? (5, Funny)

TrollBridge (550878) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340003)

Now I haven't read Slashdot forever, but how many articles throughout /. history do you suppose were titled "Bill Gates On Linux"?

Slashdot Linux Losers make the NEWS! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340008)

P-O grads guilty of field-trip sex assault
By Mike Joseph
mjoseph@centredaily.com

Two former Philipsburg-Osceola Area High School students were found guilty Monday of homosexual assault with intent to rape and and related charges by a Massachusetts jury that deliberated more than two days.

The charges against the two students stemmed from sexual assaults on two male classmates during a four-day school field trip to the Boston area in April 2001.

During the trial, Assistant District Attorney Nathaniel Yeager presented evidence that the defendants flashed one student and attempted to force him to give them oral sex and anally assaulted him and another student over two nights of the field trip.

The attorney representing defendant Garrett Broberg, 20, of Philipsburg, argued that some of the accusations against his client were fabrications by the victims and that other incidents were juvenile pranks but not criminal acts.

After deliberating Friday and most of the day Monday, the jury reached this verdict:

Broberg was found guilty of one count of homosexual assault with intent to rape; guilty of four of six counts of indecent assault and battery; guilty of three of four counts of open and gross behavior; and guilty of three of four counts of oral sex assault and battery. Broberg was a Philipsburg-Osceola senior in April 2001.

Benjamin Walker, 20, of Philipsburg, was found guilty of one count of assault with intent to rape; guilty of four of six counts of indecent assault and battery; guilty of four of six counts of disgusting and gross homo behavior; and guilty of three of four counts of assault and battery. Walker also was a Philipsburg-Osceola senior at the time.

Trial judge Mitchell Sikora scheduled sentencing for Sept. 12.

Emily LaGrassa, a spokeswoman for the Middlesex district attorney, said Broberg and Walker face a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison each for assault with intent to rape, the most severe of the charges. The problem is they will enjoy the prison atmosphere and the open homosexuality therein, she said.

Broberg's defense attorney, Edward P. Ryan Jr., said through a spokeswoman that he would not comment either on the verdict or on whether an appeal is planned. Walker's attorney could not be reached for comment.

Big Difference (3, Insightful)

jbrayton (589141) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340010)

The big difference between other Microsoft competitors and Linux is that the others have to be lucrative for the companies developing them. IBM had no reason to develop OS/2 if it was not going to be a profitable project.

The development of open source alternatives is typically not for the purpose of selling the software at a profit. Therefore, unlike commercial alternatives, they will not be cancelled if they cannot make a profit. I think that gives the open source competitors a huge advantage.

Bad bet (3, Interesting)

jsse (254124) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340011)

We bet on the 16-bit PC.

Yeah, that's IBM's thing...

We bet on graphical user interface.

Wasn't that from PARC, Xerox?...

We bet on the NT technology base.

That's VAX's thing, right?

Now we're in the process of betting on a combination of technologies called .Net

Hold you bet cowboy! This time is different! That's YOURS thing to bet with!!

Think again!

Re:Bad bet (1)

scharkalvin (72228) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340054)

>We bet on the 16-bit PC.
>Yeah, that's IBM's thing...
Actually IBM started out the PC design with an 8085 processor left over from their datamaster project. It actually WAS BG's idea that they use the (then) new Intel 8088 cpu.

Booyah! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340014)

You GO Bill!!!

First step ... (1)

jmays (450770) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340018)

BG has done this before ... a lot. The first thing you do when you are afraid of a competitor is admit their existence in a negative connotation.

Adolf Gates! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340019)

Did you look at the picture?? He is just a small mustache away for being exactly like Adolf!

He already adopted the scare tactics, now he seems to be adopting the looks as well :)

MS Idealogy? (1)

sixdotoh (584811) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340020)

One thing about MS that I've noticed is that they seem to avoid certain issues directly, apparantly with the hope that they will eventually go away. One of the biggest examples, of course, is the whole anti-trust lawsuit. I remember reading a book on the whole issue (can't remember the title), and the book made the point that had McDonalds or Disney had been brought to court on similar matters, they would have been at the DOJ's door asking "what can we do to make the problem go away." Instead, MS seemed to face this huge issue with an arrogance, and lo and behold, they did got through the issue on top.

I don't think Linux, however, will fade into oblivion no matter how much MS wishes it would. It has been around long enough already, and just in the past few years has made so many advances into the commercial/business world.

I hope he got ... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340021)

... a bowl of soup with that. *shudders*

BG needs a nice big mullet methinks.

And the next question is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340022)

Oh crap, problem... Windows BSOD again... gimme a minute while I reboot...

*Bill twiddles his thumbs looking innocent*

Sure Linux is just passing through (1)

ACK!! (10229) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340025)

Like a huge tank through the landscape. Dream on Gates. This is not the effort of a huge company that can simply be discounted. This is a grass roots efforts of people dedicated to forge a better way of computing for their own goals.

Sure, the IBM and the RedHat companies contribute a lot but the system like FreeBSD and others could and did survive before and will again if it has to.

His remarks are the flip bits of puking FUD.

just the text sir (-1, Redundant)

johno.ie (102073) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340031)

Gates on Linux
USA TODAY:There seems to be some worry at Microsoft about Linux and some of these Web-based things like Sim Desk that have popped up. Houston, Munich, and Beijing have all been considering using Linux-based products rather than going through Microsoft. How much of this is a concern?

Bill Gates: Well those are our current competitors. I mean, it's no different than in the past people used [IBM's operating system] OS/2.

USA TODAY: Nobody used OS/2.

BG: Are you kidding? I mean, let's be serious. That was IBM, a company 15 times our size. Name a bank that didn't use OS/2. OS/2 was IBM's product, and the IBM army marched behind that product. People always think today's competition is somehow different and unique in some way. Let's be serious. I mean, we've had to bet the company many times on big technological advances. We bet on the 16-bit PC. We bet on graphical user interface. We bet on the NT technology base. Now we're in the process of betting on a combination of technologies called .Net; Longhorn Web services go along with that. You always have to do something very dramatic to move things up to the next level. Who has the guts and the willingness to do risk-taking to get ink into the standard user interface? Who else is going to push that forward? Who else has the guts to get speech, get the recognition levels up, get the learning levels up in the standard interface? We've chosen to do that. If we didn't believe in those things we wouldn't be increasing the R&D budget the way that we are.

USA TODAY: There has been some criticism of the way in which you're been competing against Linux, and in The New York Times, assuming it was accurate, reporting that the e-mails in Europe talked about undercutting Linux at any cost, per se. How do you react to that, and where do you cross the line of that going back to some of the behaviors that surfaced in the Justice Department case?

BG: Well I'm not sure what you mean by undercutting. We will never have a price lower than Linux, in terms of just what you charge for the software. We compete on the basis of, if you look at the value you get out of the system and the overall cost that the system has that apply in our software. For any project, if you look at communications costs, hardware costs, personnel costs, all that, software licensing ranges -- the highest you'd ever find is, like, 3% of any IT-type project. And so the question is can that 3% [compensate], in terms of how quickly you get the system set up? How much value you get out of that system, can it justify itself in that way? And that's the business that we're in every day.

USA TODAY: On May 14th, Orlando Ayala [Microsoft's senior VP for the Small and Midmarket Solutions & Partner Group, which aims to introduce Microsoft products to smaller companies and purchasers] in his e-mails authorizing him to draw from a special fund to offer the software set discounts or even free if necessary, under no circumstances lose against Linux. Has Microsoft changed its behavior patterns?

BG: The idea is that we're in a competitive situation, that we're willing to provide a better price. This is not a general problem. This is about education situations, and educational bids are very, very price sensitive, and we've always provided super low pricing for education. We're actually providing even lower pricing now for education then we ever have, but it's been unique pricing for us, literally since the company was founded. And yeah, we, on educational bids, we will meet competition. That's considered healthy pro-competitive behavior.

USA TODAY: Is there a scenario by which you would at some point consider porting Microsoft applications into Linux?

BG: There's no consideration of that at this point.

He's technically right (3, Interesting)

mblase (200735) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340033)

I mean, we've had to bet the company many times on big technological advances.

This is true enough; the latest big MS strategy is unquestionably .NET, and they are essentially the company on that (well, that and the next version of Office) by making it the core of all their latest server offerings.

The fallacy is confusing "bet the company on" with "innovated the technology for". .NET, for all it's glory and marketing, is a hyperextension of what Java originally promised. Microsoft may have a lot of money in R&D, but they rarely push the envelope -- at least not before someone else has shown it can be pushed.

why give a damn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340034)

if bill wants to ignore linux, hurray! the best thing for linux and open source is for bill to ingore it until it's too late. So why are people pissed at Bill? I'm confused.

Do you believe me now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340035)

While on Microsoft campus: Good.

Everywhere else: ...silence...

whew... (1)

theoddball (665938) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340038)

"USA TODAY: Is there a scenario by which you would at some point consider porting Microsoft applications into Linux?

BG: There's no consideration of that at this point."
/quote

Well, that's a relief.

Too bad (1)

ciryon (218518) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340040)

This might sound like a flamebait but real innovation isn't coming from microsoft or Linux hackers.

Innovations for windows are created by other companies and Linux hackers seem to concentrate on making the innovations for windows work in Linux.

I'd love to see something NEW in Linux, like Apple's newly revealed Exposé [apple.com] but it never shows up. I'm probably hoping for Enlightenment [enlightenment.org] to prove me wrong.

Ciryon

Linux is here to stay ... (3, Insightful)

bigjocker (113512) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340044)

I don't know about you, but that interview told me a lot more than BG wanted to. In the first answer he seems to get really angered about the claim that "nobody used OS/2" and ends up sumarizing why Microsoft is the best company in town.

Linux is here to stay, and they know it. This is _not_ like the OS/2 days. OS/2 was IBM's, GNU/Linux is a comunity, they can't sweep linux out of the market because most linux users uset it because they won't run anything from Microsoft. I know I do.

Even if RedHat, Mandrake and all commercial distros dissapear and SCO's FUD manages to kill Linux (highly unlikely) the mentality, press coverage and community that has gathered around GNU/Linux will live on in the *BSDs and even in OSX.

All the people and companies spreading FUD and satanizing Linux have, in some way or another, gained a lot from the GNU/Linux movement. SCO has lasted a little longer than it should have because of OpenLinux, OSX and Windows have incorporated software and ideas that were born in the GNU/Linux/*BSD world.

Even if Linux is to dissapear the "damage" is already done ... USA Today is interviewing one of the richest and more powerful man on earth and the main topic is Linux.

Some would say that the "world domination" thingie has already started.

My paraphrase of Bill Gates (0, Redundant)

rock_climbing_guy (630276) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340056)

all your base are belong to us

you have no chance to survive make your time

ha ha ha

More confident than a while ago... (1)

Realistic_Dragon (655151) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340057)

<conspiracy>
Anyone thing that Linux has gone from being a 'the main competetor' to 'another OS2' due to their confidece that the MS funded SCO FUD campaign seems to be doing pretty well at derailing Corporate Linux (TM)?

I suspect that he would love it if the same kind of breaks were applied to Linux that were applied to BSD after their legal troubles.
</>

Not that I care, Free operating systems will live on even if Linux itself dies - it'll be a real loss for sure, but not a total from-square-0 (lots of the driver code for example is probably reusable). There might be some corporate disinterest, but it can survive even that - it only needs a core of developers to keep at it for it to grow and prosper.

Confused!!!! (1)

dimer0 (461593) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340058)

In one answer...

We will never have a price lower than Linux

And in the immediate next answer ...

The idea is that we're in a competitive situation, that we're willing to provide a better price.

Umm.. What gives?

Lies, FUD, alligations, and things left unsaid ... (1)

SuperDuG (134989) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340069)

...And yeah, we, on educational bids, we will meet competition. That's considered healthy pro-competitive behavior...

Bullshit I can smell it a mile away. The reason you can say that you can beat linux in this market is because linux isn't a corperation that can make an educational bid (at least not in the public school system). And since MS has the ability to bid both software only and software + support costs they can undercut because their client list is so much longer. Any 5-Guy Linux shop will contract at a yearly rate for what would be close to a salary. So yeah, MS can underbid in a public setting, but that's just because the bid process is messed up, not because linux sucks.

You can tell Bills scared, everytime some type of sensationalism is mentioned he plays it off like nothing happened. The fact that he's acknowledging it makes me think of a quote...

"First, they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win." - Ghandi

Looks like it's only a matter of time. Did anyone else notice there was not a definante "no" from the old MS inceptor himself that MS will make products for the linux platform. They know of crossover, and other apps like it, they know it's possible. But they want to keep as much money tied in as they can, wait though, the only thing for sure in life, is change.

A Propagandist As Vacant As Bush: +1, Patiotic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340070)

Is there a scenario by which you would at some point consider porting Microsoft applications into Linux?

BG: There's no consideration of that at this point.

------------------

Mr. Gates, why would anyone (who knows about
software applications) want to port your crap software to GNU-Linux?

Cheers,
W00t

I have got bad news for you Bill (1)

Azadre (632442) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340076)

Linux betted on a secure, open source OS. I think the people will go with that over your bloaty OS X wannabe. Sorry Bill.

Microsoftie English (5, Funny)

pubjames (468013) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340079)

I love the bizarre way Microsofties speak.

Normal person: Hey, like your hair cut Bill!

Bill: Thanks. I'm super-serious about my hair. Before it was totally random but now I'm totally dedicated to getting serious about it. My hair has my 100% committment and I'm going to be super-concentrating on that from now on.

Dave Haynie got this one right 5 years ago (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6340084)

Comparing the current situation with Linux to that of OS/2 is either wild optimism or a thinly veiled red herring tactic. The best nutshell analysis of the microsoft vs. OS/2 non-event was explained by Dave Haynie like 4 or 5 years ago:

You had IBM with OS/2, a decent technology bundled in a moderate product with a really horrible installation routine, there taking on Windows head to head for about a year. And yet, despite all of the money IBM spent promoting OS/2, you couldn't even get it bundled with most of the IBM-branded PCs. That sent the clear message that OS/2 support was something like half of IBM plus the rest of the PC world against the other half of IBM. IBM did essentially nothing with their nine month lead over Windows 95, and pretty much gave up afterwards (sure, it still exists, probably as near as your nearest MAC machine, but the world is already crowded with embedded OSs no one knows about).

here's the link to the interview [jersey.net] where the quote was made.

They always think they're different. (2, Insightful)

hndrcks (39873) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340089)

"People always think today's competition is somehow different and unique in some way."

And the roadside is littered with companies that believed they were "somehow different and unique" from everything that had gone before - where are they now?

It's an _ok_ article (2, Insightful)

Shippy (123643) | more than 11 years ago | (#6340091)

... but still didn't find it that gratifying. A couple of things that I would like to note though:

Windows does seem to be a platform that does a lot of innovation. I've seen the betas of Longhorn, they're really doing some awesome architectural change to the OS. I don't think Linux users can deny that the most popular window managers out there aim to imitate Windows' look-and-feel so as to be familiar with those users. What does this result in? A clone machine. Nothing risky and new is done very often and really pushed out (I'm talking about KDE or Gnome doing something major and pushing it out) for fear it'll push potential new users away due to its dissimilarity with Windows.

Don't get me wrong. Linux is very stable and the kernel is getting so rock-hard and that is very impressive, but until there's really a reason to make people's heads turn, people will remain on Windows. They need to see something that turns their head and they say "Wow, that's something that makes my computing life easier that's not available on Windows." Only then will desktop users really consider switching. But as long as the advertising scheme for Linux is "Just like Windows!", there won't be a super compelling reason for people to switch. Oh yeah, the lack of software hurts, but we've beat that catch 22 into the ground.

Of course, another problem is that once it's done on Linux, Windows will probably embrace-and-extend it. That's a slight downside of the cost arrangement of Linux. If someone was to get some new innovative thing into Linux, nobody can afford to get protection for it such as patents. Sure, most of you may not like software patents, but face it, it's the way it is and you have to protect yourself whether you like the system or not. I'm not saying MS will steal the code, but they have a whole slew of programmers that can tinker with something until they figure it out.

This is all stuff easier said than done. Since MS is the 900lb gorilla, they have a lot more freedom to do the pushing than the following. These are just my opinions, though.
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