Complex Network Design Tools? 33
I'm-Not-A-BOFH asks: "How do you do your large scale network design? I am currently designing a large enterprise network - and there is a ton of information to track and think about. I use AutoCAD, Visio and Cisco Configmaker (which sucks) and many other applications. I am looking for software specifically designed to help you design a network.
What tools do you use - and what tools are out there that maybe are little known? How do you begin to manage network documentation when your hosts get into the thousands and your routers and routes into the hundreds? I am really just interested in the tools used to accomplish this - as all the tools I have been finding are just not adequate or well thought out. Please let me know what you think is invaluable to you when you design your systems."
Some useful tools. (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.lumeta.com/ipsonar.html
The whiteboard.
A good knowledge of networking protocols, etc.
The hardcore network engineer doesn't need diagrams - sh ip route, sh ip bgp, sh ip ospf, sh cdp neigh, sh arp, sh cam dyn, etc. (in Cisco-speak; there are equivalents for other vendors) are enough to visualize/plan/troubleshoot, quite frankly.
Re:Some useful tools. (Score:4, Insightful)
Thats assinine. Have you ever worked on a network with THOUSANDS of devices before? He didn't say 'Small Business' he said 'enterprise'.
stupid arrogant people assuming the people who need diagrams aren't good enough. Glad you can sit and boost your ego that way, but when that stops working for you, join the real world.
To keep this slighly on topic, try using Ciscoworks [cisco.com]
Re:Some useful tools. (Score:4, Interesting)
Our network changes so much (because it's so large, and there are many people doing things to it 24/7 worldwide) that any sort of diagrams are pretty much obsolete the moment they're drawn. The pretty pictures are useful props for talking to management, etc., but they are of zero value in troubleshooting the network.
I don't need to visualize thousands (we went into five figures years ago) of devices simultaneously - nobody does. But since we adhere to sound architectural principles, and know what we're doing, I can troubleshoot any portion of said network without any diagrams other than the ones in my head as I poke around and a few quick sketches I might draw 'live' on a pad as I make inferences from my observations.
Re:Some useful tools. (Score:1)
Re:Some useful tools. (Score:2)
The reason is because we're understaffed, and we're just too damned swamped to have a dedicated doc-monkey or two to do the work.
I'm not worried about my job security - I'm one of the best in the world at what I do. When someone new joins our group, we spend 4-8 hours initially on the whiteboard, and then subsequent time as events warrant. Since we haven't acquired any new members in the last year or so, it hasn't been necessary.
Re:Some useful tools. (Score:1)
Hey man if it works for you than knock yourself out. Myself, it seems to me that the fact that multiple people are making changes to the network 24/7 should make documentation that much more necessary, be it a visual diagram or some other form.
I'm going to hazard a guess that even in your environment there's still a spreadsheet or a databse or something you use to look up IP's by location and make sure you don't assign overlapping IP's right? If that's the case, and you haven't played with it yourself yet,
Re:Some useful tools. (Score:2)
We just don't have lots of pretty diagrams lying around.
CiscoWorks (Score:2)
Re:Some useful tools. (Score:1)
Maybe the hardcore engineer doesn't need it, but the company does!
If you have a serious network then that information is too vital (to the company) to be stored in the head of one person.
What if he/she retires? What if something bad happens? Do you get a whiteboard and start from scratch to figure out how these wires are supposed to be connected and why?
Netviz (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Netviz (Score:2)
You need to be abs
Google wasn't very helpful, ... (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
No Single Tool and Layers (Score:4, Insightful)
Other Considerations (Score:3, Insightful)
Many "well-planned" networks fail because they aimed to provide all resources evenly, but in the real-world, this is not the case. Most of the time, a certain group of people use specific resources, and use very little of other resources. Also keep in mind that you must be able to adapt if the resource requirements for a group change, because it will happen. It's the same thing as trying to use a database wizard to optimize your database. A computer just can't do that for you. The software doesn't have all the necessary input parameters to the problem, and even if it did, the problem is NP Hard. So, in reality, it doesn't matter what tool you use to diagram the network, but actual design still has to be done by human insight, or at least a well-trained monkey...
seriously (Score:1)
Cisco Network Designer (Score:3, Informative)
Internally, 3com used... (Score:1)
As an ex-3Com employee, the network guys made extensive use of a whiteboard, followed by documenting what they'd done in Visio.
I doubt you'll get all information into one form of documentation; you'll most likely need various 'parts' of documentation.
This implies different tools for the job.
Surely a "real" engineer can pull all this together without the need for specific tools?
Use your HEAD (Score:2, Informative)
Then, off of each core router, drop gig-e links off to your layer 2/3 routers. If redundancy is a huge issue (which is p
complex network simulation? (Score:1)
Design or Document? (Score:1)
seriours (Score:1)
Re:serious software for modelling complex networks (Score:1)