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Apple Offers Discounts to Adobe Premiere Users

pudge posted more than 11 years ago | from the ooo-slam dept.

Movies 64

JHromadka writes "Apple is responding to Adobe dropping future Premiere releases with great deals on Final Cut products. You can trade in Premiere for a free copy of FC Express, or $500 off FC Pro."

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Express or Pro? (5, Interesting)

twocoasttb (601290) | more than 11 years ago | (#6455152)

So, I'm thinking about doing the trade-in deal, as opposed to the $500 upgrade deal. What could I do in Premiere that I couldn't do in Final Cut Express? The marketing stuff doesn't allude to anything...

Re:Express or Pro? (0)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 11 years ago | (#6455168)

Hmm, how about waste a lot of time and effort?

FCE is essentially last year's FCP tailored for the DV market.

Re:Express or Pro? (4, Informative)

capmilk (604826) | more than 11 years ago | (#6456461)

With Premiere you can directly record analog video, Final Cut Express only lets you record from digital sources. Apart from that, FCE seems fine for my purposes.
If anyone could recommend a good recording application, I'd be really glad.

Re:Express or Pro? (1)

SlamMan (221834) | more than 11 years ago | (#6456503)

Yup, but if you can afford an analog card to use with Final Cut, then you can probobly afford the extra $500.

Re:Express or Pro? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6457165)

Yes and forget the analog think and move straight to uncompressed digital video via one of several SDI options. Then you have some sexy looking video.

Re:Express or Pro? (2, Informative)

bursch-X (458146) | more than 11 years ago | (#6458083)

With Premiere you can only record analog video if you have a card that will give you the video inputs.

There are cheap converter boxes that convert FireWire to and from S-Video and "normal" consumer equipment video connectors (whatever those are called in English). They work very well, and usually also work with iMovie.

Re:Express or Pro? (2, Interesting)

skinfitz (564041) | more than 11 years ago | (#6457251)

What could I do in Premiere that I couldn't do in Final Cut Express?

How about "more or less anything?" Premiere is awkward to use, but once learned is an extremely powerful package. The amount of layers that you can use alone makes it more "powerful" than FCP.

FCP is a good package - lets make no mistake about that - if you want simple video editing, then it can do it, however Premiere is a lot more flexible, if a lot more complicated, however with power comes the knowledge pre-requisite.

You want to do extremely complicated edits, use Premiere and perhaps consider After Effects. You want pain free relatively basic editing, get FCP.

Re:Express or Pro? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6457532)

You say the number of layers you can use makes Premiere superior?
FCP supports unlimited layers with nesting, while Premiere is limited to 99 layers last I checked. (although there's no reason for anyone who has a clue what they're doing to be troubbled by that limit)

FCP is much more suitable for professional video work than Premiere ever was, hell it's even creeping into the low end of Avid's territory.

Re:Express or Pro? (4, Interesting)

daviddennis (10926) | more than 11 years ago | (#6457605)

I have never heard anyone defend Premiere before as anything other than awful. I tried it, briefly, and quickly realized that any other video editing program had to be loads better.

I thought you could do all the layering you would ever want on FCP. From version 1, FCP had "segments", sort of like subroutines of video that you'd already edited. You can easily prepare and combine in any way you wanted with other segments, which is an enormously powerful feature that was only added to Premiere with the advent of Premiere Pro (this new Windows-only version).

FCP also has extensive keyboard shortcuts that make you a lot more efficient. Again, Premiere Pro brags about this, but FCP did it first.

Could you give an illustration on something you could do in Premiere that you couldn't do in FCP?

I know you can do wonderful things in After Effects, although it's about as fast as a drugged slug. But Premiere? You've roused my curiosity :-).

D

Re:Express or Pro? (1)

Hes Nikke (237581) | more than 11 years ago | (#6458352)

umm, i think you got them backwords, FCP is the powerfule hard package, premiere is the easy, limmted package that needs After Effects if you want to do anything more then a simple cut (yes i exaderated a little, but then it appears that you did too)

Re:Express or Pro? (1)

pressman (182919) | more than 11 years ago | (#6462445)

Wow!This isn't even in the realm of a biased opinion. This is just flat out ignorance of the capabilities of FCP. I've used Premiere extensively as well as FCP. I can tell you with certainty that you got those statements backwards! The very fact that you can put a transition ABSOLUTELY ANYWHERE in FCP makes it more useable and functional than Premiere. Though not a true compositing or motion graphics app, FCP can do a lot of things more simply than even AfterEffects.

Premiere will not be missed on the Mac. I just feel sorry for all the Windows users who have been sucked in!

From the marketing stuff... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6457562)

Try http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress/comparison.ht ml if you want a direct comparison of Final Cut Express and Premiere.

Premiere vs Final Cut Express (2, Informative)

daviddennis (10926) | more than 11 years ago | (#6457623)

The most important thing is that Final Cut is a much better designed application. There are about 50 different ways to do anything, it's extremely flexible, and the keyboard shortcuts make it easy to get work done.

As I remember, Premiere has better titling, but Final Cut has an extensive colour correction system that I believe is included in FCE.

But the most important thing is simply a far superior design and user interface, something even Premiere's defender (see his message) will admit.

Hope that helps.

D

Re:Premiere vs Final Cut Express (2, Informative)

bursch-X (458146) | more than 11 years ago | (#6458157)

Since FCP 4 with livetype. FCP even rules in titling. ;-)

Re:Express or Pro? (2, Insightful)

Gizzmonic (412910) | more than 11 years ago | (#6458680)

two words:

BATCH CAPTURE.

In other words, if you're using something that supports device control (like any DV cam), you can run along your tape and mark input and output points, then press the shiny red button and have your editing program do the capturing for you.

This method saves a lot of time as you don't have to be at the computer every second, nor do you have to ride the "start" and "stop" buttons to get perfect in and out points.

for some it's not a big deal, but there is no way in hell i'm paying for an editing program that can't do batch capture. i started editing on a controller system (destructive, linear editing) and i'm too spoiled.

that being said, final cut pro is 10 times better than premiere. but final cut express is just a cash-in. i don't think there's really a need for a program between Final Cut Pro and iMovie, and even if there is, Final Cut Express does NOT get the job done, at least not nearly well enough to be worth $300. Hate to say it, but Premiere has much more features, and if you're gonna spend $300 on an editing program, you may as well plop down $200 more and get Premiere.

Re:Express or Pro? (1)

twocoasttb (601290) | more than 11 years ago | (#6458728)

That's great to know. I do like batch capture, so I'll have to think about this some more...

Re:Express or Pro? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6458801)

One thing I always wondered... and I realize that PRO users probably have a different outlook on this... but regarding batch capture. Why not just capture the entire tape in one shot, then go back and cut it up into subclips, versus going the log and capture route.

It would seem to me that this would save a LOT of wear and tear on your camcorder, versus the constant starting and stopping that happens when logging tapes for batch capture. Now, with PRO level equipment, im sure this is not as big a concern, as they are probaby built to take the abuse, but for joe-blow hobbiest consumer gear user (precisly FC Express's market) would this not be (a) much better on my $600.00 sony camcorder and (b) remove the need for log and capture that FC Express lacks?

Re:Express or Pro? (2, Interesting)

Gizzmonic (412910) | more than 11 years ago | (#6461395)

Well, if you capture an entire tape, you're looking at huge amounts of hard disk space...you get maybe 5 minutes per GB with uncompressed DV.

Even for a user with lots of hard drive space, that limits your focus. Making a list also saves huge amounts of time.

If you're a consumer user that's just manipulating small clips anyway, then iMovie is the way to go. I still don't think that FC Express is worth $299...

Re:Express or Pro? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6462890)

Well, Remember that after you capture the entire tape, subdivide it up into a bunch of sub-clips, you can then go back and recapture the supclips out of the master footage. Then you can delete the master clip. At that point you should be using no more disk space than had you log-capture the clilps.

As for I movie.. I cant aggree. Its good for very basic non precise editing, but the delta between it and FCE is HUGE.

And the worst part about Imovie is the destructive way it handles titles. Just try and go back and make a change to a project after you have added titles to it.. what a mess that turns into. Whoever came up with the method it uses should be FIRED.

Also avaible for windows.... (5, Insightful)

quandrum (652868) | more than 11 years ago | (#6455160)

I just noticed this is also available to windows users of Premiere. Might be enough to switch to a 2x2 G5 and FCP.... (okay, I just really want a G5.. mmm)

f1rst post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6455180)

first post

Students? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6455210)

Too bad this can't be used in conjunction with an educational discount. Apple's student prices are pretty sweet when it comes to software (the hardware's still a little high, though. It's like the reverse of the razor model).

Re:Students? (1)

Hes Nikke (237581) | more than 11 years ago | (#6458376)

um... the educational price for FCP is $499 anyway

Re:Students? (1)

Apple Developer (670108) | more than 11 years ago | (#6458789)

I was able to get the educational version trough my university's book store for only $300.

I'm not complaining or anything.... but it did strike me as odd.

Memo (4, Funny)

Mikey-San (582838) | more than 11 years ago | (#6455486)

Adobe: "We'd give you the new version of Premiere, but we decided not to write it for you. Sorry."

Apple: "We'd give you a cut of the business we're about to take from you on our platform, but we decided not to write the check. Sorry."

Yeah, I know, probably not like that, but still, it was sorta funny.

Ebay! (5, Interesting)

rumpledstiltskin (528544) | more than 11 years ago | (#6455495)

This is a pretty sweet deal when you consider that you can get cheapo versions of premiere on ebay. there weren't any restrictions on version number that I could see from the fine print. just no academic or similarly discounted versions.

Re:Ebay! (2, Insightful)

scrotch (605605) | more than 11 years ago | (#6455894)

Where did you see the academic/discounted version restriction?

All I see is that Premiere LE doesn't count. That's the Lite version, not the academic or bundle version.

I've got a copy of v5 from the Video Bundle (or whatever it's called) that I got an academic price on. And I want FCE!!

If you saw a restriction, though, I'd like to know before I mail off my CD.

The Fine Print (3, Informative)

bats (8748) | more than 11 years ago | (#6456373)

If you look at the mail in form, there's fine print at the bottom. The 'Trade In, Trade Up' deal where you mail in your Premiere CD for a free Final Cut Express disk does not mention Academic versions at all -- just the Premiere LE.

Only the 'Your Checks in the Mail' offer mentions Academic software. Sounds like you can't buy FC Pro Academic ($500) and get the $500 rebate. But it seems that you can trade your Academic Premeire disk for FC Express for free!

I'm licking my stamps now!

Worldwide availability? (5, Interesting)

Mitz Pettel (664075) | more than 11 years ago | (#6455617)

While this page [apple.com] claims that the FCE and FCP offers are "available worldwide", it also says that deliveries "must be made to addresses within the 50 United States or the District of Columbia", and there's no sign of the offer on Apple's UK site. What gives?

Availability in Europe; Adobe cooperation? (2, Interesting)

Mitz Pettel (664075) | more than 11 years ago | (#6473910)

Well, according to Andrew Webb on MacInTouch [macintouch.com] , Apple says that

This promotion is coming to the UK in the next 7 days. The reason for the slight delay (compared to the US one, which started yesterday) is that we have been
working with Adobe to get the promo up and running in all European countries simultaneously, which is a logistical nightmare. But we're getting there.
(emphasis mine)

So it seems that Adobe is cooperating with Apple on this one (maybe by assuring them that Adobe customers won't be in violation of their Premiere licenses by just sending the media to Apple).

Go Apple (5, Interesting)

runenfool (503) | more than 11 years ago | (#6455625)

Im glad Apple did this as its exactly what I asked our rep for as soon as the Adobe announcement was made.

Adobe has decided that not only can it not compete with a better product (its competing when its not bundled for free with the OS), but that it wants to push a much more serious rival's media software (WMP).

FCP is a great reason to own a Mac, and offering free or inexpensive cross grades to FCP from Premiere on both platforms is exactly what Apple needs to do to stay competitive.

The media technologies are actually the key to the Premiere/FCP battle. Keeping MPEG4 at the front of the game is extremely important to all of us who are interested in seeing open media technologiers (and who don't want another reason to be stuck on Windows). Having Adobe push Microsoft's solution (not saying you can't do anything else - but notice the prominent mention of MS technologies in their PR release for Premiere) is bad for all of us.

My point? Apple competing hard for open media standards via products like FCP is great for those people who will never use either piece of software.

Re:Go Apple (3, Insightful)

burns210 (572621) | more than 11 years ago | (#6456720)

This will be great for Apple now, but pissing off Adobe even more is going to do what? Push them away! How pissed off do you want Adobe to be when they make very popular pro-level applications(photoshop comes to mind)? How many ways does Apple have to undercut third-party developers because they think they can home grow a better product?

In a niche market like Apple, where pro-level applications keep you in the game and bring credibility to your platform, you can only piss off and drive away so many developers.

Re:Go Apple (-1, Troll)

mrpuffypants (444598) | more than 11 years ago | (#6457145)

Who needs Adobe? I get all my Photoshop versions from KaZaa [kazaa.com] !

Re:Go Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6463366)

Fuck you. Seriously. Scumbag pirate.

Re:Go Apple (4, Informative)

daviddennis (10926) | more than 11 years ago | (#6457518)

There's only one catch to your argument: Unlike Photoshop and After Effects, Premiere was hopelessly bad compared to Final Cut Pro.

Premiere's creators were interviewed at Digital Video Editing.com [digitalvideoediting.com] . I can't link easily to the article since DVE is using frames heavily, but go to the page and read part 1 of the interview. They use corpspeak and evasiveness where they can, but there's no question they were very much aware that Premiere was horribly inferior to Final Cut, in feature set, user interface and pretty much everything else.

The situation with Photoshop and After Effects could not be any more different. Both are applications beloved by their users, that have received quality updates. As a result, sales are split about 30/70 Mac/PC, instead of Premiere's 10/90 Mac/PC. Because of this, it's profitable for Adobe to produce a Mac version of these programs, especially with the new G5 offering the needed processor oomph.

In short, I would not call Apple's purchase of Final Cut betraying Adobe. I would consider it Apple's acknowledgement that they needed a high-quality video editing program, and Premiere wasn't going to do the job.

I really don't think Adobe is going to get rid of Photoshop or After Effects for the Mac, because we tend to be a pretty free-spending market. Isn't it interesting that Macs have something like 5% of the market, but 30% of Adobe sales. That's a nice contribution indeed, that can't be written off lightly.

D

Re:Go Apple (1)

napdawger42 (527126) | more than 11 years ago | (#6458472)

Karma whoring.... Link to the article. [digitalvideoediting.com]

Re:Go Apple (2, Insightful)

runenfool (503) | more than 11 years ago | (#6458767)

I don't think offering a competing, paid product is doing any disservice to your platforms developers. Products like iTunes certainly hurt the Mac MP3 player market because they are free, but when you have something like FCP whose development wasn't being subsidized by operating system or hardware sales you have a (relatively) fair ground on which to compete.

If Adobe were to ever reach the point where they would consider dropping Photoshop because Apple had a competing program it would be because their Mac sales had dropped so much from Apple producing that much better of a product.

As far as Apple driving away developers I think they would disagree. I read today how Joz pointed out that Apple had 3 times the developers it did before OS X. As a classic Mac user who is now using OS X that fact is quite obvious.

I think its also quite obvious that FCP is a strength of the Mac, not a weakness. Apple has gained many more Mac sales with the creation (purchase) and development of a mac only Final Cut Pro versus the loss of users of the cross platform Adobe Premiere.

us only (1, Flamebait)

lordholm (649770) | more than 11 years ago | (#6455751)

Blody hell... when are American companies going to stop treat us Europeans as second class world citizens???

Oh, well... one day I will have my revenge... mua ha ha ha ha. ;)

Re:us only (1)

Currawong (563634) | more than 11 years ago | (#6455795)

Blody hell... when are American companies going to stop treat us Europeans as second class world citizens???

Blody hell... when are American companies going to stop treat us Australians as second class world citizens???

;)

Re:us only (1)

rmlane (589573) | more than 11 years ago | (#6457861)

When we become the 51st state, of course.

Re:us only (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6458566)

That's next month, according to little Johnnie's plan.

Re:us only (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6458238)

As soon as we Australians start reading Apple's press releases, which state the offer IS available worldwide except where it's illegal.

It's not illegal here yet, I think. Not unless the oz government hears about the rudey #macintosh crowd making home por^H^H^Hmovies.

Re:us only (-1, Flamebait)

BitGeek (19506) | more than 11 years ago | (#6455953)


When Europe stops being part of the second world.

Seriously. The reason you guys get the shaft so often is the taxing and regulatory environment there makes it very difficult to offer deals like this.

You guys throw of the chains of socialism, and you'll get a lot more of the benefits of capitalism than just more special deals on computer hardware and software.

Alas, though, you're about to have a constitution imposed on you that denies human rights and I suspect things are going to get much worse there in the near term.

But I digress. The reason you don't get these deals is Brussels won't allow them, or makes it too much trouble to be worth doing because Apple would get no benefit from it.

Re:us only (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6456001)

Mod parent down -1 troll.

Re:us only (0, Offtopic)

lordholm (649770) | more than 11 years ago | (#6456248)

"Alas, though, you're about to have a constitution imposed on you that denies human rights and I suspect things are going to get much worse there in the near term."

#if defined TROLL_RESPONSE_MODE
Huuh??? Have you actually read the European constitution? I have, and most of the elements I can agree fully with, especially the charter for fundamental rights of the citizens.

There are no socialism in this, there are however values of the classical liberalism.

Article II-2
Right to life
1. Everyone has the right to life.
2. No one shall be condemned to the death penalty, or executed.

This is of course an example of the more evolved ethics and morale in Europe.

The state shall not kill it's citizens!
#endif

Re:us only (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6458196)

LOL LOL LOL

idiot. full of american presumptions about "...[making] it very difficult to offer deals like this"

Funny, apple's PR says clearly:

""This offer is available worldwide, except where prohibited or otherwise restricted by law"

heh. then you go on with

"The reason you don't get these deals is Brussels won't allow them"

Again, presumption. You didn't bother to read the PR did you?

shithead american

Re:us only (3, Informative)

Mister Black (265849) | more than 11 years ago | (#6456171)

US only? From the Final Cut promotion [apple.com] page:

"This offer is available worldwide, except where prohibited or otherwise restricted by law"

Re:us only (1, Insightful)

lordholm (649770) | more than 11 years ago | (#6456309)

I stand corrected then, I was going after the fact that the promotion was made within the US-Apple store, and not a single one of the European stores i checked out.

They still have to fix iPhoto and iTunes for Europe though.

Resources. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6455784)

TheMacMind [themacmind.com] and MacCentral [maccentral.com] also has various information updates covering the Creative Pro Expo and Conference if anyone is interested.

Burning DVDs (2, Interesting)

ceri (161894) | more than 11 years ago | (#6456194)

Will Final Cut (preferably Express) allow me to burn existing MPEG-2s to DVD? I can export MPEG-2 files from my ReplayTV but can't seem to burn them onto my SuperDrive without first converting them to DV and then using iDVD.

Ceri

DVD Studio Pro? (3, Informative)

ZxCv (6138) | more than 11 years ago | (#6456312)

Final Cut doesn't do any DVD burning (that I'm aware of, anyway)--that is what DVD Studio Pro is for. So if what you want can be done, it will probably be done with DVD Studio Pro.

Re:Burning DVDs (0, Redundant)

Juanvaldes (544895) | more than 11 years ago | (#6456320)

That is what DVD Studio Pro is for.

Re:Burning DVDs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6457142)

That is what DVD Studio Pro is for

Umm well yes and no. DVD Studio Pro is really for making the interactive DVD parts and muxing your audio together. Once you have done this and made a disk image, ready to burn, even Toast (version 6 of course) will do the burning to DVD part.

Re:Burning DVDs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6456428)

No, You'd need DVD Studio Pro to burn existing MPEG2s as DVDs using Apple's software iirc.

Or you could just download the MissingMpegTools from http://homepage.mac.com/rnc/ if you want to try the quick and dirty way, it's free.

Re:Burning DVDs (1)

Alan Partridge (516639) | more than 11 years ago | (#6456702)

are your ReplayTV files DVD compliant MPEG2s?

Dear Crapple: (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6456591)

Dear Apple:

I bought an Apple computer because of its native support for teledildonics. I bought a USB FUFME [onzin.nl] and MacOS immediately recognized it and installed drivers instantly! As a gay Catholic priest who often can't be at the altar all the time, you can understand how the ability to have sex with children whilst on the airplane with my Powerbook and wireless internet service is a lifesaver.

I just have a single question, will Apple be releasing a firewire version of the FUFME anytime soon?


With much gayness,

Father Michael "Arminass" Sims

Top Ten Reasons Macs Suck (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6457340)

# You can't use 5-1/4" floppy disks.
# You can't go shopping with your friends for a Sound Blaster board because Macs don't need one.
# Your 200 MHz 604e Mac does integer calculation equivalent to a 362 MHz Pentium Pro, but you can only brag about 200MHz.
# Networking a Mac is not an impressive feat.
# Macs don't come in black, and we all know black cabinets make computers faster and louder.
# You have to add a system extension to make Mac menus stay down like Windows. We like pokey menus because it's too hard to hold that heavy mouse button down while we read.
# And the Mac mouse is too slow. We want our cursor to fly wildly off the screen when we twitch our wrist because hyper cursors make our PCs look faster.
# You just plug Macs in and they work. Where's the challenge in that?
# When you add stuff, you just plug them in and they work, too. Again, no challenge.
# Your clients and teachers know about # 2 and 3, so they expect Mac users to deliver results, not excuses!

all those old cds (3, Funny)

Suppafly (179830) | more than 11 years ago | (#6457847)

Do you just have to mail them the cd, or the license too? Apple could make a killing reselling all of those premiere licenses they they got basically for free.

Re:all those old cds (1)

Senjaz (188917) | more than 11 years ago | (#6459607)

If you want to know what's gonna happen to all those old CDs:

A few weeks from now, Adobe Premier drinks costers will be in wide use around the Apple campus.

+5 Informative (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6458097)

mac users r teh ghey

mac zealot mods that mod this as Flamebait, Troll, Offtopic, or Overrated r also teh ghey.

Slightly OT-computer problems (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6458633)

I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Linux fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of an Athlon64 (an XP-3000+) running SuSE for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 500 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. 20 minutes. At home, on my eMac running Mac OS X 10.3, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this PC, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.

In addition, during this file transfer, KDE will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even pico is straining to keep up as I type this.

I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various Linux distros, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a Linux distro that has run faster than its Wintel counterpart, despite the Linuxhead's insistence of open-source efficiency. My eMac 1Ghz with 512 megs of ram runs faster than this 3000 mhz(?) machine at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that a Linux PC is a superior machine.

Linuxheads, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use a GNU/Linux system over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.

Re:Slightly OT-computer problems (1)

scottgfx (68236) | more than 11 years ago | (#6459462)

OS X 10.3 eh? Ahhh you're a developer, I see. Then you should be able to figure out that problem on your own. Wait, I thought you owned a PowerMac 9600 and were trying to copy a 500MB file. Ohhh now I see, your just a stupid AC that doesn't know jack about Macs! My mistake. Sorry about that.

Re:Slightly OT-computer problems (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6459976)

The troll was shitty when it was an outdated mac to a pc, it's still shitty now. Please die.

What will they do with the disks? (2, Funny)

Erik K. Veland (574016) | more than 11 years ago | (#6459300)

I hope they put them all together in a huge microwave.

Zzzap!
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