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Making Freenet Find Stuff Faster

timothy posted about 11 years ago | from the chugging-through-the-data dept.

Programming 283

Sanity writes "Many probably saw the recent announcement of Freenet 0.5.2. This release represented a vast amount of work - primarily in reducing Freenet's CPU and memory requirements. However, streamlining Freenet's current functionality isn't all we've been working on. I just finished an article that describes the most fundamental improvement to Freenet's core algorithm since its original design over three years ago, it is called "Next Generation Routing" and has the potential to dramatically increase the speed with which Freenet retrieves information. It could even make Freenet faster than the World Wide Web in many circumstances, all without compromizing anonymity and while remaining immune to the /. effect."

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283 comments

GNAA GETS FP !!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6486926)

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Are you a NIGGER [mugshots.org] ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER [gay-sex-access.com] ?
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If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

P.S. To keep this post on topic, the GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) loves to use freenet to distribute gay nig pr0n

This post brought to you by a proud member of GNAA
________________________________________________
| ______________________________________._a,____ |
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ |
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ |
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ |
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ |
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ |
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ |
| ____a,___jk_ GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_|
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ |
| ______-"!^____________________________________ |
` _______________________________________________'
-GNAA member 'penisbird'

Re:GNAA GETS FP !!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6486965)

IGNORE THE TROLL!

Re:GNAA GETS FP !!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487002)

Are there any plans for a GCAA (Gay Crackers Association of America)??

SJP answers common GNAA question (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487080)

Look retard, if you're gay, you can be in the GNAA. There's no need for a gay cracker association. SJP fact of the day: Seinfeld [cbiboca.org] is still the only sitcom on TV worth watching.

well... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487043)

YOU FAIL IT!

CLITS ARE MORE FUN (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487131)

Clits are more fun to make trob than black cock. When black cock throbs, it is looks like a fire hose, but when clits throb, it's like watching a happy dance of ginger bread people.

BPAA Wants YOU! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487138)

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If you have mod points and would like to support BPAA, please moderate this post up.

This post brought to you by a proud member of BPAA
` __________________________________________________ ______
| ______________________________________._a,________ _____ |
| _______a_._______________aj#0s_____aWY!400._______ _____ |
| __ad#7!!*P_____.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#_______ _____ |
| _j#'___0#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_____ _____ |
| _"#g____01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_____ _____ |
| __oe__tyu_____*@`gpdN#____`___-!^_________________ _____ |
| ___lkp___ghq___pTW___?____________________________ _____ |
| ____mw_____ff___oef_______________________________ _____ |
| _____er__ww_____ _________________________ ____________ |
| ______xde___BISEXUAL_POLYNESIAN_ASSOCIATION_OF_AME RICA_ |
| __________________________________________________ _____ |
` __________________________________________________ ______'
bpaa representative #648437

Re:BPAA Wants YOU! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487169)

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If you have mod points and would like to support MPAA, please moderate this post up.

This post brought to you by a proud member of MPAA
` __________________________________________________ ______
| ______________________________________._a,________ _____ |
| _________________________aj#0s_____aWY!400._______ _____ |
| __ad#7!!*PFGH___.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#______ _____ |
| _j#'___0#,__bdf_#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,___ _____ |
| _"#g____01___"#0-1__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01____ _____ |
| __oe____u_____*@`_gpdN#____`___-!^________________ _____ |
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| _____er___ww_____ _________________________ ___________ |
| ______xde___MOTION PICTURE_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA______ |
| __________________________________________________ _____ |
` __________________________________________________ ______'
mpaa representative #648437

ad for freenet? (1, Interesting)

Comsn (686413) | about 11 years ago | (#6486944)

is this just an advertisement for freenet? i thought slashdot didnt do feature requests...

At the time of writing, implementation of N.G Routing is well-underway, although nodes using it have yet to be widely deployed in the wild.


freenet still isint there yet, but feel free to tell us when.

Re:ad for freenet? (1)

n9hmg (548792) | about 11 years ago | (#6487085)

freenet still isint there yet, but feel free to tell us when.
You said it! I just went to download it, and it is not available on any of the mirrors. I don't know whether they changed the version and didn't update the mirror links, or somebody got to them and made them take it down (even in Chekoslovakia?).

Good. (4, Interesting)

Squidgee (565373) | about 11 years ago | (#6486949)

I'm glad to see Freenet progressing so well; especially it being resiliant to the /. effect (read: DOS attacks), and it being faster (!) han the WWW.

Freenet is an awesome idea, and very rapidly becoming one that is neccesary to ensure your protection. Although it is a double edged sword (It can help both good, and bad people), I think it's one that is neccesary. And, if it becomes speedier than the web at large, it'd be just freaking awesome. Now, no one needs to fear censorship, nor do they need to fear the government shoving them into a database.

Now if only I could get it running on my Mac OS X box...

Re:Good. (5, Informative)

Ryan_Singer (114640) | about 11 years ago | (#6486963)

it's running on my unmodified osx box. just use the unix version.-Ryan

Re:Good. (1)

Squidgee (565373) | about 11 years ago | (#6487023)

Yea, but does it do anything after you run the .sh?

It never does anything for me..

Re:Good. (4, Informative)

freedom_leffo (605662) | about 11 years ago | (#6487059)

Well, just wait half a minute or so and then point your favourite browser towards http://127.0.0.1:8888 - and off you go! The Freenet-thingie is running in the background.

Re:Good. (2, Funny)

Squidgee (565373) | about 11 years ago | (#6487068)

Ooooh, that's how it works.

Dammit, I hate it when I miss things.

Re:Good. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487197)

I recommend using Frost [sf.net] for file transfers. The only thing I've ever successfully downloaded from a regular freesite (apart from graphics) is the Freesite Insertion Wizard.

Re:Good. (1)

Squidgee (565373) | about 11 years ago | (#6487385)

Thanks for the tip; downloading mp3s has had me very frustrated...

Re:Good. (1)

MyHair (589485) | about 11 years ago | (#6487300)

Unless your favorite browser is IE. Then use your secong favorite Mozil--er, browser.

It's possible to lose your anonymity with IE since it ignores MIME types.

Re:Good. (2)

km790816 (78280) | about 11 years ago | (#6487334)

The potential is amazing! Think BitTorrent.

As the number of people on /. that use Freenet increases, stories can start linking to the FreeSite of an article--for example The Freedom Engine [127.0.0.1] --along w/ the 'old' web site.

Instant distributed mirroring.

Bloody cool.

Re:Good. (5, Interesting)

Ralanti1 (649287) | about 11 years ago | (#6486995)

Isn't the www good for both good and bad people though too? any technology that comes out will have a way to exploit it. The fact that it's faster then the WWW is an achievement in itself but would the RIAA/etc try and go after it claiming it's anonmity is the problem? I'm really curious to see how this plays out.

Re:Good. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487047)

They most certainly will, and their lapdogs in congress will force freenet out of the US.

Re:Good. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487020)

Now if only I could get it running on my Mac OS X box...

Install virtual PC6.

Re:Good. (-1, Troll)

donutz (195717) | about 11 years ago | (#6487081)

Now, no one needs to fear censorship, nor do they need to fear the government shoving them into a database.

Well, except maybe a database of suspected terrorists (i.e. Freenet users).

Challange? (5, Funny)

traskjd (580657) | about 11 years ago | (#6486953)

"immune to the /. effect."

If this isn't a challange I don't know what is :-)

-traskjd

Re:Challange? (5, Funny)

Surak (18578) | about 11 years ago | (#6487004)

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly downloaded Freenet in a fury and it was suddenly silenced. :-P

Freenet, not Sourceforge (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487005)

He said Freenet was immune, not Sourceforge

Short explanation about what is the /. effect : (1, Informative)

BlueTrin (683373) | about 11 years ago | (#6487013)

From Slashdot FAQ [slashdot.org] :

What is the "Slashdot Effect?" When Slashdot links a site, often a lot of readers will hit the link to read the story or see the purty pictures. This can easily throw thousands of hits at the site in minutes. Most of the time, large professional websites have no problem with this, but often a site we link will be a smaller site, used to getting only a few thousand hits a day. When all those Slashdot readers start crashing the party, it can saturate the site completely, causing the site to buckle under the strain. When this happens, the site is said to be "Slashdotted." Recently, the terms "Slashdot Effect" and "Slashdotted" have been used more generally to refer to any short-term traffic jam at a website. We could conceivably cache pages, but that's a whole different ball of wax. Answered by: CmdrTaco Last Modified: 6/13/00

Re:Challange? (3, Funny)

Guppy06 (410832) | about 11 years ago | (#6487139)

Fine. You go off and try to Slashdot something on a network where you can't even find what you're trying to Slashdot. :)

Same here (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487156)

I don't know what a "challange" is, either.

Slashdot Effect? (1, Funny)

WolfieN (654940) | about 11 years ago | (#6486960)

The /. effect is like a worm which infects every network on the face of this planet..

I thought otherwise (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487050)

Slashdot is The Matrix!

Slashdotters are just the mindless people living out their lives in bliss. If you are a slashdotter, you are one of them and we can't trust you.

Knock Knock Freenet! The Matrix has you!

Here it is, The Matrix [rulez.org] , but with AOL/M$/etc...and I wanted to see one with CowboyNeal as agent Smith, and Timothy and Michael as the other two agents, then the CmdrTaco robot releases the twins (NEOs; Penny Arcade) while American Greetings Sentinels seek and destroy...but the above URL will do just fine, for a slashdotting...mua-ha-ha-ha...

A dare? (3, Funny)

ATAMAH (578546) | about 11 years ago | (#6486969)

> ... and while remaining immune to the /. effect
Said the author of the slashdotted article.

Re:A dare? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6486986)

he said Freenet was immune, not Sourceforge's web servers.

Sad news ... Stephen King dead at 55 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6486974)

I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.

NON-FP SJP, just for the record. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6486980)

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Hmm, sadly (2, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6486988)

Those using browsers that support the "mng" animation format (such as Mozilla) can see an animation of a node's datastore specializing over time here.

That's not true anymore, communists Mozilla maintainers removed mng support to save a 'whopping' 100k download.

Re:Hmm, sadly (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487063)

The Moz maintainer that did that is a fucking dick.

He won't put it back in after the size was made more managable and hundreds of users asked for it back.

All because he doesn't want to be proven wrong.

Re:Hmm, sadly (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487171)

They only cited the size issue because they didn't want to hurt the guy's feelings by telling him that his code fucking sucked.

Mozilla would be happy to accept a working, non-crashy MNG implementation.

Re:Hmm, sadly (1)

Joe Tie. (567096) | about 11 years ago | (#6487104)

This is slightly off-topic, but with Mozilla/firebird having mng support removed, what browsers can still display them? I know Konqueror has mng support, does Safari as well?

Bunch of FUD (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6486993)

Welcome to the World Wide ... "WOW".

Nice Article, Not Impressed.

Java can't be efficient (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6486999)

Not because it is a good or bad language, but due to the need of this bloated vm which suck all the memory and cpu.
What i'll really like is a C version: small, fast and efficient.

Re:Java can't be efficient (OT) (5, Insightful)

owlstead (636356) | about 11 years ago | (#6487130)

This is incorrect. For networking related stuff, Java is efficient. It will use some more memory, and it will use (a bit more) CPU power but there are many reasons to go with java for such a project:

- easier language to pick up / understand (this is a collective effort)
- little to no chance of buffer overruns, making the node much safer against attacks)
- runs on Linux, Apple, Sun, Windows, FreeBSD without - any - porting
- java was more or less created with projects like these in mind, so most functionality will be readily available in the default libraries

Nowadays CPU and memory are commodities that can easily be come by. I see it taking about 32 MB right now, but that is out of a single 512 MB pool that can be upgraded to 1 GB for virtually free. My processor usage is max 25%, but note that the freenet guys set the priority to low themselves.

Java means a shift to better programming, with better runtime information and safer programs. This will take CPU and memory, but this is an offer you should consider very well.

This same discussion went on between assembler and C programmers. Look at it now. I think the progress of object oriented, garbage collecting, more secure platforms are as important as that paradigm shift.

Warper

Re:Java can't be efficient (OT) (1)

HBI (604924) | about 11 years ago | (#6487275)

This same discussion went on between assembler and C programmers. Look at it now. I think the progress of object oriented, garbage collecting, more secure platforms are as important as that paradigm shift.

If we are ever going to arrive there, we haven't gotten there yet. Java applications feel slow. I have not seen a single Java-based application where this was not the case. I have seen server-side implementations that aren't godawful slow, but they are not much different than ASP in terms of response- ie, not that great.

Developers thinking that 'Java is good enough' is not enough. I see the phrase 'implemented in Java' and I find an alternative immediately. Too many sludgy, anemic Java applications have scarred me.

If Freenet wants to catch on faster then a C implementation would be wise. If they don't care, it'll continue to stumble along with little acceptance until the day your dream comes true and system throughput and responsiveness no longer matter because of the relative speed of our platforms.

Re:Java can't be efficient (OT) (3, Interesting)

owlstead (636356) | about 11 years ago | (#6487362)

No, you are referring to the startup time of the VM. Once started, the memory pages will have settled and the response gets better and better. The same thing happens when you use the menu's the first time. Once the classes have loaded, the program has fine responsiveness. Actually, you can preload classes with Java, but not too many developers use that particular feature (it will add to the startup time anyway).

IMHO, the Java VM should be loaded at startup, and a single VM should be used to launch multiple applications. When used like that (together with an efficent GUI startup process) much of the gripe against Java applications should be gone. Obviously the firewalling between programs should be maintained. Alas, this is not currently so.

To come back to freenet: it doesn't incorporate a GUI in normal use (using the web interface is not the same as launching a Swing application) and for networking speed: the speed of the connection will be the bottle neck, not the Java application.

It must be said that the current implementation will scare away programmers that are looking towards efficency. For most programs you should n't though. Look at the architecture before trying to get something more efficient by changing languages.

ps. for an ample showcase of efficiency, try Eclipse from IBM. Check the features first before posting though.

GNNA - Java IRC Client avaliable (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487001)

Join GNAA Today!

GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which
gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY [klerck.org] ?
Are you a NIGGER [mugshots.org] ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER [gay-sex-access.com] ?
If you answered "Yes" to any of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America. You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 2 simple steps!

First, you have to obtain a copy of GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE [imdb.com] and watch it.

Second, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on EFNet, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today!

If you do not have an IRC client handy, you are free to use the GNAA Java IRC client by clicking here [nero-online.org]

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is EFNet, and you can connect to irc.secsup.org or irc.isprime.com as one of the EFNet servers.

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

P.S. To keep this post on topic, the GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) loves to use freenet to distribute gay nig pr0n

This post brought to you by a proud member of GNAA
________________________________________________
| ______________________________________._a,____ |
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ |
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ |
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ |
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ |
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ |
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ |
| ____a,___jk_ GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_|
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ |
| ______-"!^____________________________________ |
` _______________________________________________'
-GNAA member 'penisbird'

Java chat didn't work for me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487053)

crashed my browser twice.

Re:Java chat didn't work for me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487158)

try it again. using a better client now.

Freenet is under corporate control, not 100% free. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487011)

Don't believe me? Look at its whois DNS founding; regulated by a corporation (DNS Trust) that is in-turn regulated by the FCC.

You can't have "Freedom of Speech Networks" when the FCC says what you can and can't do on their secured internet.

I don't mean to hand this to anyone in a snide way, I want freedom of speach, but here is a google'd cache of the uSA/US scandal [66.218.71.225] that only a few [familyguardian.com] are aware of points out the obvious fundumental facts in the historic paper trail.

Case in point: you can't have freedom of speach when the chosen government (FCC) regulates what can and can't be done in said "freedom of speach."

Anyone with any more URLs to share? I gave two good ones above. Check them out!

Re:Freenet is under corporate control, not 100% fr (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487102)

Don't believe me? Look at its whois DNS founding; regulated by a corporation (DNS Trust) that is in-turn regulated by the FCC.
What are you talking about?

Once the user has a copy of Freenet, there is no reliance on DNS. Further-more, Freenet is designed to be propagated through means other than via the Freenet website. Google for "Distribution Servlet" and "Freenet".

Re:Freenet is under corporate control, not 100% fr (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487194)

Thanks for clearing this up.

Re:Freenet is under corporate control, not 100% fr (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487248)

You don't understand. This hasn't been cleared up. Look at the Bittorent shutdown! The Bittorent mainpage is shut down from a DOS, then shutdown by its chosen government (FCC), and now its in shambles. Freenet can have the same thing happen. There is no way to have a free *speech network when the packets run through the FCC's regulation.

*i have been corrected to write "speech" instead of "speach", I'm not daily to speaking English.

You are an idiot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487277)

You don't understand. This hasn't been cleared up. Look at the Bittorent shutdown! The Bittorent mainpage is shut down from a DOS, then shutdown by its chosen government (FCC), and now its in shambles. Freenet can have the same thing happen. There is no way to have a free *speech network when the packets run through the FCC's regulation.
The only way Freenet can be shut down is by shutting down the Internet. Also - how exactly does the FCC regulate IP traffic outside the US?

Re:You are an idiot (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487307)

Freenet is Peer-to-Peer. Remember, the packets are moving through the FCC's internet to begin with, and can be stopped. It isn't difficult to footprint the freenet for censorship. All FCC needs to do is use freente itself, modify, rinse, repeat, done.

It's the internet. Data gets around easily and they (FCC) has the tools to "notice" data when they want to. Goto a Gnutella network and look at all the pirated commercial software available for download (cached list/not accessible). All they (FCC) need to shutdown a system is a motive and a way. The Internet is their construct. There is not sense in arguing. They have the infrastructure already setup as well as infinite funds to hire all the recently unemployed IT staff that are desperate for work($).

Like I said in my parent post, I am not being snide; you haven't been able to refute my testimony.

Re:You are an idiot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487327)

So you read localranger's article [kuro5hin.org] and decided to try things out?

"Remember, the packets are moving through the FCC's internet to begin with, and can be stopped."

Wow. I'm just speechless.

Re:You are an idiot (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487357)

Wow. I'm just speechless.

See? It's working already

Re:Freenet is under corporate control, not 100% fr (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487308)

The Bittorent mainpage is shut down from a DOS, then shutdown by its chosen government (FCC), and now its in shambles. Freenet can have the same thing happen.

Uh, your really off your mark here. The Freenet web interface thingy comes with it's own mini webserver and the functionality to turn any non-transient node into a freenet distribution center. From the Freenet web interface, there's a link called Spread Freenet [127.0.0.1] . (Link only works if you have Freenet installed and running.)

Even if the main Freenet site [freenetproject.org] got taken down, things would still be just peachy...

While we're at it, what's this about the Bittorent mainpage going down? I know that a few popular tracker sites went down, but I've never heard of the main BitTorrent site [bitconjurer.org] going down. Click the link; it's up right now.

Moderators: How the hell did the parent get modded +2 Insightful?

Re:Freenet is under corporate control, not 100% fr (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487137)

"Case in point: you can't have freedom of speach when the chosen government (FCC) regulates what can and can't be done in said "freedom of speach.""

I wish someone would regulate your bloody spelling.

Re:Freenet is under corporate control, not 100% fr (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487178)

I wish someone would regulate your bloody spelling.

My original language is not English, and I conditionally agree to reform my spelling if you stop bleeding all over me when you talk.

Re:Freenet is under corporate control, not 100% fr (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487222)

Bloody is a British way of saying "fucking."

That should read "I wish someone would regulate your fucking spelling."

Re:Freenet is under corporate control, not 100% fr (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487322)

If you want to say "fucking" then say it. Don't be a "bloody" pussy, get off your british rags.

URL Correction. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487204)

The second URL that reads "http://familyguardian.com" was mistakenly typed and should be
familyguardian.tzo.com [tzo.com] or Chris Hansen's mirror [tzo.com] .

Please mod this up for people to recognize this fact. Thanks mods.

Will Oppenheim Eat His Words? (5, Interesting)

Schlemphfer (556732) | about 11 years ago | (#6487012)

In a widely publicized interview from earlier this month, RIAA Senior Vice President Matt Oppenheim said:

Other than the fact that most infringers do not like to use Freenet because it is too clunky for them to get their quick hit of free music, it is no more of a threat than any of the popular P2P services.

Translation: "Oh Lord, I hope Freenet is inherently unable to have robust search functions, because if it ever develops these, we're hosed. But in the meantime, we can dismiss this software as being a big POS."

Now, less than two weeks after the interview, it seems the one aspect of Freenet that Oppenheim wanted to write off at is on the brink of being fixed.

It isn't search... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487075)

...at least not keyword searching as you find in Google and Kazaa. When they refer to searching they mean given a key (a very large number), finding the corresponding data.

Re:It isn't search... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487152)

Mod this guy up. The paper is more about routing, like finding an ip on the regular internet (BGP and so on). Not searching for keywords.

It would be nice if freenet had searching. For that, you need gnunet [ovmj.org]

Re:It isn't search... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487209)

It would be nice if freenet had searching. For that, you need gnunet
Last time I looked GnuNet was essentially an attempted copy of Freenet made by people that didn't really understand what made Freenet interesting architecturally. All of the innovative ideas in GnuNet are copied directly from Freenet, and those that aren't are pretty uninspired. I, for one, would rather stick with the original than a poor imitation.

Re:Will Oppenheim Eat His Words? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487232)

Eventually yes. The RIAA can only hope to win by halting the free and easy movement of all files, or licensing the use of each individual music file. The world won't stand for the former and customers won't generally accept the latter. Freenet is just one more way to move files.

Tony Blair found dead at 78!!!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487014)

Anthony Blair of Santee, California was found dead in his motorhome on Sunday, July 20th. Family could not be reached, however friends and neighbors showed interest and admiration by dividing some of the late Blair's home furnishings amongst each other shortly after medical professionals announced his death of natural cause. "Tony", as his neighbors called him, is survived by two austrialian shepherds, Clair and Brandis.

Easy update for existing freenet users. (5, Informative)

anonymous coword (615639) | about 11 years ago | (#6487016)

Instructions for windows and linux and linux compatables.

Windows : Right click the rabbit icon in your system tray, then click upate to latest snapshot build.

Linux : run update.sh in the freenet directory.

Re:Easy update for existing freenet users. (1)

John Hasler (414242) | about 11 years ago | (#6487382)

> Linux : run update.sh in the freenet directory.

Debian GNU/Linux: point /etc/apt/sources.list at unstable and 'apt-get install freenet-unstable'.

Beware the Federation (5, Funny)

Vagary (21383) | about 11 years ago | (#6487018)

You know what'd be really impressive? Finding a way to make FreeNet slower. It'd be so slow you could make a Beowulf cluster of FreeNet nodes and use it as a time machine. Personally, I'd use it to go back to Ian Clarke's dorm room and convince him to get drunk and high rather than wasting his life making a P2P system that will be useful around the same time we have to start worrying about being censored by the United Federation of Planets. But that's just me.

-1 Haven't we seen this already? (0, Troll)

Monkelectric (546685) | about 11 years ago | (#6487021)

Oops ... wrong site :D

Teh GNAA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487029)

If you do not have an IRC client handy, you are free to use the GNAA Java IRC client by clicking here [nero-online.org]

Wow! (0, Funny)

Eric(b0mb)Dennis (629047) | about 11 years ago | (#6487035)

Making freenet find stuff faster

How about saying making freenet find stuff faster five times fast?

muahuahahu

Distributed algorithm benefits Freenet again (4, Interesting)

andyo (109338) | about 11 years ago | (#6487037)

What I find interesting about this algorithm is that it is applied individually by each node; there seems to be no need for nodes to share data over some complicated protocol as in many distributed systems. Yet (I think we can believe Clarke) this change improves response time through the system as a whole. It's a validation of the basic Freenet model of systems acting alone but providing a service greater than the sum of its parts.

Nice to see... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487260)

...that someone actually bothered to read the article before posting.

peekabooty anyone? (4, Interesting)

Snooweatinganima (168199) | about 11 years ago | (#6487040)

has anyone ever tried peekabooty [peek-a-booty.org] , esp. under wine? The reflections on open source development [peek-a-booty.org] the developer(s) feature on their website sound kinda depressed..but then again, the honesty factor speaks for them. Are there any deep flaws in the idea? I personally like the simplicity of their design, but since I'm not a design guru, I may be utterly wrong.

Publicibooty (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487151)

The CdC people (and the organizations that spun out of them like Peekabooty) have always been much better at self-publicity than solving real problems.

They thought it would be cool to design a censorproof network. They weren't interested in supporting what was already in development, namely Freenet, after all - where is the publicity in being part of someone else's project?

The only problem was that they dramatically underestimated the difficulty of pulling it off - the result? Peekabooty was, is, and probably always will be, vaporware. The design they do have is a primitive HTTP proxy network last time I looked, and it doesn't solve any of the difficult problems of circumventing censorship (just ask them how the poor little Chinese dissidents are supposed to find their HTTP proxies).

Amuzing, after draining the concept of a censor-proof network for all it was worth (without actually building one) - they then did their best [peek-a-booty.org] to drain publicity from their failure to build it!

Freenet answers those questions, and has done so since its original design in 1999.

Now you can REALLY be an AC! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487054)

Goatse is on freenet, too [127.0.0.1] (don't click unless youre a member of the gnaa)

Immune to /., perhaps (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487084)

Immunity to ignorant masses of /. users it is not.

I was in the first /. crowd of joining, and here is the etiquet/advice I have.

Things to do if you plan on playing with freenet:

1. Set it up properly.
1a Set your IP in the config file, read the site for details, but it's freenet.ini
1b Try to use DynDNS if you have a dynamic IP
2c Leave it up 24/7 for a few days before you judge speed. You need to let the blood circulate :)
2. Install a proper version of Java. I recommend the 1.4.2 beta. IBM may work better, I haven't tried.
3. Fix your browser.
3a Your browser will crash on some sites (even Mozilla not Opera) because of a GIF bug.. patch it.
3b Set your number of simultaneous connections up a lot. You request a file from your local store, then it downloads it. You need to request as many in parallel as possible.

Now, on to advice.
Get Frost! Frost is like the news groups of the freenet. It's a great place to read interesting ideas.

If you want to make a site, check out Fish tools, Fuqid and FIW.

Be aware that there are 3 different kinds of sites, and two modes of getting information
3 types include interval based, revision, and static. Static sites are one time shots. Revisions you create directories like /1/ /2/ /3/ and link to images from the future. If the image loads, you know there is a more recent revision. date based must be activated every time interval, or they die. Be very careful with these.

There are SSK and CHK linking methods, which I still don't know a whole lot about, but maybe someone will reply and explain them.

By /. effect immunity, they mean linking to a site will only make it stronger. Everyone on /. joining freenet is just going to slow it down, because basically, you are creating a great suction on the net without any data to give back. Even worse, when you quit off of freenet, everyone will be looking for you from their cache and not finding you. This is going to cause the most problems, but surely not everyone on /. are going to quit on the same day. ;)

Get IIP, so you can realtime chat with people that run some sites on freenet. #freenet is dedicated to freenet chat and issues.

Have fun!
(Posting anonymously in respect of the freenet principals.)

Re:Immune to /., perhaps (1)

Famatra (669740) | about 11 years ago | (#6487201)

The parent message has a lot of good tips!

You have to realize that you will see speed gains if you leave your node, perminant node, on so it's routing table can adjust to the network.

As well, if you want p2p search why not develop one? (You can try out / look at Frazaa on the The Freedom Engine main website, I believe someone is trying to create one already).

Freenet is a protocol like tcp/ip, there are other tools that enchance freenet that exist (FIW, Fuqid, Frost). I'd try some of them before you judge Freenet, and you should stick around till the upcoming release of the Next Generation Routing system too.

Hmm.. (4, Interesting)

Idealius (688975) | about 11 years ago | (#6487088)

Makes you wonder if Freenet gained popularity over the web whether all "official" transactions would be web-based, leaving Freenet to misc. web sites that are completely information/communication based. The reason I wonder is because if someone gets their login/password stolen from some random service on Freenet which they invested mucho time in, how will anyone else know the difference? That would really irk me.. (Yes, I know the web is vulnerable to this as well, but at least it requires a user have an IP address -- whether or not it's actually legit.)

Re:Hmm.. (2, Informative)

MyHair (589485) | about 11 years ago | (#6487363)

There's no login or password to publish data on Freenet. Sites are inserted with private/public key combinations. As long as you never let your private key out in the open no one should be able to impersonate you.

It is possible to publish data without strong crypto (KSK keys, I think), and those are vulnerable to spoofing, but it also makes for a convenient anonymous feedback system.

(IANACryptorapher)

Re:Hmm.. (1)

RealityMogul (663835) | about 11 years ago | (#6487381)

Since Freenet is really about anonymity, I don't think there's going to ever be any authentication happening. That would kind of kill the anonymity model.

and the point is? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487096)

sorry, but i still don't see the gap that freenet is trying to fill. there are far better ways of spreading information in countries that such is banned, and freenet does a very poor job as a file-sharing client. i'd rather see focus on a truly anonymous file-sharing network.

NGrouting - When? (1)

gunne (14408) | about 11 years ago | (#6487097)

When will this new routing protocol be in the main freenet releases? As far as I can tell, it isn't in 0.5.2... Or does anyone know of a way to download and test a version that includes NGRouting?

Re:NGrouting - When? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487141)

http://www.freenetproject.org/snapshots/freenet-un stable-latest.jar

It seriously needs it.. (1, Interesting)

iamsure (66666) | about 11 years ago | (#6487127)

I just installed .52 and boy, is it unusably slow.

Two minutes to load the WARNING page in front of the main 'search engine' of sorts that it has.

Its worse than being on dialup. I'm all for the anonymity, but I'm on broadband, and it CRAWLS.

RTFM (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487172)

If you actually read the download page you would see that Freenet starts out slow, because it needs to learn how to find information. Be patient, download some stuff, it will speed up.

Re:It seriously needs it.. (4, Informative)

yarbo (626329) | about 11 years ago | (#6487173)

It takes some time to build up information on how to get around. It gets faster, be patient

Re:It seriously needs it.. (1)

stinky wizzleteats (552063) | about 11 years ago | (#6487190)

You:

I just installed .52 and boy, is it unusably slow.

From a parent (and much more justifiably up-modded) post:

2c Leave it up 24/7 for a few days before you judge speed. You need to let the blood circulate :)

Make Freenet Free! (2, Interesting)

Carl (12719) | about 11 years ago | (#6487143)

Seriously. It is a bit ironic that the Freenet project doesn't run on a free system like Debian GNU/Linux. So there is an effort underway to Free Freenet! See the developer mailinglist archive [freenetproject.org] . Please donate (Matthew Toseland - Toad - is the "Official Codemonkey" of the Freenet Project).

Blame Kaffe - not Freenet (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487198)

From what I can see the project does try to stick to Java APIs for which free implementations are available, but it does not hold itself hostage to their bug-fixing schedules. If Kaffe can't run Freenet because it isn't meeting its API obligations, then blame the Kaffe team and pester them to fix the problems, don't blame the Freenet developers, or expect those that donated money to Freenet to have it spent debugging Kaffe.

Freenet is about Freedom of Communication, not Free Software. Just because there is significant overlap between those that advocate each - does not mean that Freenet should spend its resources advancing the Free Software/Open Source agenda at the expense of its own.

Re:Make Freenet Free! (1)

lunatik17 (91135) | about 11 years ago | (#6487376)

Freenet will run under a free system just fine. It runs perfectly well on my Gentoo box. The problem you're referring to is a problem with kaffe, not freenet. Just use blackdown until kaffe works.

plenty of room for future research/tuning (4, Interesting)

BassZlat (17788) | about 11 years ago | (#6487155)

the nice thing about the current ng routing scheme is that there's plenty of room for research on how to tune it even further.

Note: if you haven't read the article, this won't make much sense to you.

For one, the number of reference points doesn't have to be fixed; if/when memory and cpu power allows us, we could have variable number of reference points per node. This opens the door to other decisions, such as whether we encourage clustering reference points. If yes, we add new ref points closer to others. If not, we remove a ref point the density within some keyspace interval gets too big. Another option is to add a new ref point whenever the n previous estimates turn out to be more than x% correct, and remove one if otherwise.

Another direction to go into is curve fitting. If cpu power allows us, we could use various techniques of polynomial or Fourrier interpolation within the existing reference points to draw more accurate curve of time vs. keyspace. /me wanders if embedding fortran in java makes sense ;))

Another one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487353)

Great - out of about 50 comments so far, this makes two that have read the article (not including me).

You are right - NG routing lays out a clear path for future refinements to the algorithm, and a clear way that those refinements can be evaluated.

Anyone interested in statistics should really start paying attention to Freenet right now - interesting things are happening.

Neil Peart is the Greatest Drummer Alive! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 11 years ago | (#6487189)

Neil Peart is the greatest drummer to every walk this earth. He wields an ablitity like no other drummer. If you have time listen to Neil Peart. If you like Neil Peart please mod this up. ---a----a--aaaaaa---aaaaaaaa--a-------- ---a-a--a--a------------a-------a-------- ---a--a-a--aaaaaa------a-------a-------- ---a---aa--a------------a-------a-------- ---a----a--aaaaaa---aaaaaaaa--aaaaaaaaa

"remaining immune to the /. effect."? (3, Interesting)

RPoet (20693) | about 11 years ago | (#6487281)

Freenet is NOT immune to the /. effect currently. Every time /. runs a Freenet related story, loads of new users seem to get on the Freenet and it just collapses, meaning response times go way up and many freesites become unreachable. I'm sure NGRouting will take care of this, but it's not honest to say it will help Freenet "remain immune" to the /. effect, because it's not immune.

What's Your Specialty (1)

wondergeek (220755) | about 11 years ago | (#6487347)

From the article: One of the expected side effects of this approach was that nodes would tend to specialize in the retrieval of some keys to the exclusion of others.

I wonder which lucky chap will run the node that specializes in kiddie porn?

The next level (3, Insightful)

mcrbids (148650) | about 11 years ago | (#6487374)

FreeNet will have problems for the forseeable future because the average joe can't easily install it and make it work.

Who will take FreeNet to the masses?

In other words, who will make a simple, usable client/server program that works on FreeNet? (Think Napster/KaZaA/Gnucleus)

Will it be KaZaA? BearShare? Will it be some Open Source project?

How long until somebody with the right skill set takes this to the "next level" so that it's actually usable to people other than geeks?

Freenet not a panacea (3, Informative)

acceleriter (231439) | about 11 years ago | (#6487375)

A "rights" holder knows the freenet key of certain material. Can the holder not hust write a script hop onto Freenet, request that key (and only that key), and fire off C&Ds to all the ISPs whose allocations include the addresses that respond? Seems simple enough--even with blinding of requests, the intellectual "property" holder can still point to the nodes that respond as having distributed the material--just as the exit server from Mixmaster (or freedom.net, before it became a casualty of 9/11 hysteria), etc. is vulnerable to legal attacks.

This might be able to be foiled with some kind of chaffing in which nodes respond even if they don't have a piece of the data in question, but that would introduce more inefficiency.

In particular, those who are "willfully blind" to infringement losing safe harbor provisions, I don't see how Freenet will survive as a means of propagating "questionable" material. And since that's it's raison d'être, then it probably won't survive at all in the U.S.
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