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Canada Splits Local Phone, DSL Services

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the one-or-the-other-not-both dept.

The Internet 445

s20451 writes "Running counter to the recent string of pro-consolidation FCC rulings in the United States, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission has ruled that big Telcos like Bell and Telus must offer ADSL service even when local phone service is provided by another company. Effectively this ruling splits local phone and net services, opening both up for competition and lower prices. Press release here."

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445 comments

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Be real! (-1)

scumbucket (680352) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493159)

+1 mod the Parent!
______ .-" "-.
/ \
| |
\__|IIIIII|__/
|-\IIIIII/-|
\ /
`--------`

split my fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492861)

beotch 20 sec yet???

Split your legs (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492907)

HERE COMES THE PHALLUS OF FAILURE!

Gaywad wants first post
Time to bend over, faggot!
YOU FAGGOT FAIL IT!

so... (1, Offtopic)

Gibble (514795) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492875)

In my area, ADSL is much slower than Cable, I'll stick with my cable and my connection that isn't capped as low as ADSL

More Faith-Based Intelligence: +1, Patriotic (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493115)

about Syria and Iran [nytimes.com] spouted by The Moron-Out-Of-Control [whitehouse.org]

Very truly yours,
W00t

Re:so... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493154)

Cable will always be faster than ADSL, but Sympatico now offers unlimited bandwith.

Why is high download speed important? As long as pages load, I have no problem. Most websites and download locations don't even offer what you can get from a 1.5mbps connection anyway, why would you need 4mbps? You're not downloading illegal stuff from Kazaa arn't you?

Re:so... (2, Insightful)

Malc (1751) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493217)

In my area (Toronto), DSL is much faster than cable. I get 3.5Mbs/800Kbs for about CAD$50. Cable isn't an option as it is only offered one company (Rogers), and it's a horrible one at that.

Oh I could only wish... (5, Interesting)

TWX (665546) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492879)

... that someone here would work to implement this in the United States. It would mean that companies like Verizon and Qwest wouldn't have the stranglehold on broadband that they currently do...

In Phoenix, we have two different Cablemodem providers, with some fairly significant overlapping coverage, but all of the independent DSL line providers for residential closed except for Qwest, and Qwest still uses Pair Gain, which kills DSL.

Re:Oh I could only wish... (2, Interesting)

nsideops (579890) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492962)

I live in a farily small town. Any area you live in has "one" broadbrand option. There is no (or very little) overlapping. There is no choice here. In town you have a choice of the one cable or one dsl, but this is honestlly a small area. I live outside the city limits so it's either take what they give you or get nothing. I've found it's like this in quite a large section of the US.

Re:Oh I could only wish... (1)

Azghoul (25786) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493045)

Guess we should all move to places where there the population density is above 0. :)

Re:Oh I could only wish... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493019)

Nice. "I didn't read the article but I have a post that people will like and will post it anyway." This is about forcing big phone companies to offer DSL in areas where they don't offer local service. It has nothing to do with decreasing monopolies in areas that the big companies already exist. It would be like getting RCN local phone service but still being able to get Verizon DSL. Why I would want to do that (since Verizon DSL sucks) I don't know. I am much happier with my RCN cable modem which averages around 1.2 Mbps.

Re:Oh I could only wish... (1)

GoofyBoy (44399) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493046)

> It would mean that companies like Verizon and Qwest wouldn't have the stranglehold on broadband that they currently do...

You can already get broadband from a variety of different vendors here in Canada. If you can get high-speed from Bell, then you can also get it from other re-sellers also.

So this is more of a "freedom" from who you get your local phone service from.

Re:Oh I could only wish... (1)

Phroggy (441) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493073)

In Phoenix, we have two different Cablemodem providers, with some fairly significant overlapping coverage, but all of the independent DSL line providers for residential closed except for Qwest, and Qwest still uses Pair Gain, which kills DSL.

Covad is still open (they recovered from Chapter 11), and does service Phoenix. SpeakEasy uses Covad exclusively, and as far as I know Earthlink uses Covad in Phoenix. Of course, Covad's ADSL normally uses line sharing on top of Qwest's line, so if Qwest's line won't qualify for DSL, you're probably still out of luck. See if SDSL is an option (SDSL normally runs on a dry pair).

Pair gain [bldrdoc.gov] does kill DSL, but don't assume you can't get DSL through Qwest until you talk to Qwest and they tell you you can't. They may switch your phone line to a new pair.

Re:Oh I could only wish... (2, Informative)

TWX (665546) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493209)

"Pair gain [bldrdoc.gov] does kill DSL, but don't assume you can't get DSL through Qwest until you talk to Qwest and they tell you you can't. They may switch your phone line to a new pair."

They won't. A friend of mine lived 7000 feet from the CO, and he tried asking, he tried three different phone lines, and they all were pair gain. His upstairs neighbour had DSL though, so that really made him mad that it was available there and yet they wouldn't do one little change that could have allowed them even more low-maintenance revenue...

hmm (3, Funny)

UU7 (103653) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492882)

This is quite good news. I'm glad we aren't following the US.

I love living here :)

Canada (-1, Flamebait)

ShieldW0lf (601553) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492902)

== America++

Re:Canada (1)

kurokaze (221063) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492939)

In that case Canada == America since your
post-increment doesn't occur until after
the statement.

You're not a programmer by any are you?

Re:Canada (1)

mjmalone (677326) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492999)

I think he meant Canada == (America++)... silly order of operations

Re:Canada (1)

CableModemSniper (556285) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493192)

parenthesizing it doesn't help. (America++) still returns America.

Re:Canada (1)

UU7 (103653) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492941)

Jealousy brings out the worst in people :)

Re:Canada (2, Insightful)

kurokaze (221063) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492966)

Actually, it's a compliment.

Although his logic is wrong, taken literally
(albeit incorrectly)

Canada==America++

would mean that Canada is 1 up on America.

Re:Canada (1)

UU7 (103653) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493016)

Ahh, fair enough. Got confused for a sec :)
In either case, this is something I know alot of my friends in the states would be happy with.

Maybe in time, with a new gov.

Just in case this site gets slashdotted.. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492883)

Here's a cache copy of the article:

Posted by simoniker on Monday July 21, @03:07PM
from the one-or-the-other-not-both dept.
s20451 writes "Running counter to the recent string of pro-consolidation FCC rulings in the United States, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission has ruled that big Telcos like Bell and Telus must offer ADSL service even when local phone service is provided by another company. Effectively this ruling splits local phone and net services, opening both up for competition and lower prices. Press release here."

CONFIRMED: I just shat all over myself (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492885)

I can't believe I just took a shit in my pants at work. What the fuck? I cant stand up and take it to the restroom, because I am wading in a puddle of feces at this very moment. Any change in my seating position will send my poo spilling down my legs and into my socks and shoes. There is no way I can play this off as a fart. It doesn't help at all that I've been spun out for 3 days. I can hardly see straight! How am I possibly going to explain this to my Supervisor when she comes over here to ask me what the fuck I just did in the presence of my employer? She'll make me drop trau in front of everyone again. There it is. The person in the cubicle to the right of me just asked if I could smell "that". I gotta go.

They'll just bypass this edict... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492891)

...by pricing it ridiculously high. If they get suckers who sign up, then they profit. If they don't, well they really didn't want the business anyway.

Re:They'll just bypass this edict... (3, Insightful)

Zathrus (232140) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492987)

That's fine. As long as they offer it to everyone, indiscriminately, at that price. Including internal customers.

Anything else is price discrimination, which I'd bet is illegal in Canada.

Offering it at absurd prices will merely kill it outright and drive customers to alternate providers and/or services. This is the entire idea behind deregulation, and if it's implemented properly it can work.

When it's implemented improperly, however, it becomes a nightmare and causes far more problems than existed previously -- for examples on badly done public utility deregulation see California's electric power dereg or Georgia's natural gas dereg. Either one is a case study in how not to do it, and between the two they've frozen dereg pushes on power or natural gas across the US.

Still no adsl-only service (5, Interesting)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492896)

Unfortunately, the decision only applies if you have service from some telco - it doesn't make it possible to have ADSL-only service for those of us who use our cell phones as our only voice line.

Should happen soon, though - you can already order internet access from cable companies w/o subscribing to their TV services.

Re:Still no adsl-only service (2, Interesting)

Quasar1999 (520073) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492968)

Sure you can... You just pay a $15 premium for the privelage of having service without a voice line. Thus defeating the purpose since basic service is $18...

Re:Still no adsl-only service (1)

Azghoul (25786) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493018)

I can order cable modem only from Cox, and could do so with Adelphia here in the states. Of course, they charge you additionally... surprisingly the same price as carrying the broadcast channels.

So now i have basic channels on cable, the modem, and everything else on Direc(Just as big thieves as cable co's)TV...

Re:Still no adsl-only service (1)

eight22 (594669) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493163)

You can get Internet only on Rogers Cable with a $10 surcharge. Basic cable cost $22 so it's still a good deal. Of course, after I refused to pay the extra $12 dollars for the cable, they called me and offered to give me free cable for two months, which worked out great.

Re:Still no adsl-only service (1)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493197)

That's what I was thinking of doing also, but I don't have time to watch more than an hour or 2 of TV a week.

Nothing ever changes. (-1, Flamebait)

AntiOrganic (650691) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492900)

Slashdot is too American-centric.

yay canadians! (2, Insightful)

Machine9 (627913) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492903)

such sensible people!

maybe next they'll force computer manufacturers to offer alternative OSses on computers, to open up competition and lower prices.

Re:yay canadians! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492956)

Dude I just bought a computer WITHOUT any OS. Wow Canada is the real land of the free (as in speech).

Re:yay canadians! (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493021)

"maybe next they'll force computer manufacturers to offer alternative OSses on computers, to open up competition and lower prices."

You mean like this one [apple.com] ?

Alternatively, would you consider manufacturers offering PCs with NO operating system a viable substitute?

And I also wonder if anyone would take a free Linux CD from a free bin if places like Circuit City and Best Buy offered it.

Re:yay canadians! (2, Insightful)

Machine9 (627913) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493203)

I think you're on to something there...
what a wonderful place the world could be.

you think we can convince RedHat to press 3.000.000 cardboard-sleeved 1 CD editions of their flavour of linux? I'm sure at least SOME people would pay for support after installing that.

Re:yay canadians! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493043)

fuck you fucking american

Re:yay canadians! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493151)

Now that was intelligent. What about a few more words? eeeeyeee?

I'm an American (5, Funny)

Gefiltefish11 (611646) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492906)


I'm an American, you insensitive clod!

Re:I'm an American (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493024)

Good for you.

Re:I'm an American (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493042)

So immigrate [cic.gc.ca] , you insensitive clod!

Re:I'm an American (5, Funny)

Pyrosz (469177) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493051)

I'm an American

I'm Sorry.

Re:I'm an American (0, Flamebait)

CausticWindow (632215) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493140)

Don't forget that Canadians are people* too!

*Americans

Re:I'm an American (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493147)

I'm an American, you insensitive clod!
Must have been a typo. He really meant to type:

I'm an American - (an) insensitive clod!

Will it work out much better than in the US? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492912)

The phone companies are already basically monopolies, and here they were willing to sell their DSL at a loss for a few years to put other DSL providers out of business. Sure, they had to share the lines under the law, they just made it difficult and expensive.

Yes. (1)

Ron Harwood (136613) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493007)

Here's the deal...

All dsl lines are owned by the major telcos... the CRTC forces them to let smaller ISPs resell the lines (bulk pricing allows for profit)... services (email etc) and the actual pipe to the internet are provided by the ISP... but the dsl line is owned and supported by the telco.

Re:Yes. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493038)

And that was the exact same situation in the United States. The major telco companies just sold their service at a loss to customers until the new competitors could no longer afford to stay in business.

Ouch. (4, Interesting)

Quasar1999 (520073) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492913)

Bell was losing hundreds of subscribers a day due to their bandwidth capping earlier this year, and now they have to provide ADSL service to really small markets where it will cost them more to upgrade the infrastructure to support ADSL than they could possibly make in revenues from customers?

Sell your Bell stock! ;)

Re:Ouch. (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492996)

Read the ruling again. They're not required to provide ADSL everywhere (which would entail huge upgrade costs).

What they do need to do is provide ADSL, in areas that they already serve, to customers who use local phone service from someone else.

Re:Ouch. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493014)

No, that's not the case at all. What it says is that Bell cannot refuse ADSL service to anyone in their coverage area simply because they don't use Bell for local phone service.

Re:Ouch. (1)

spy5600 (588085) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493152)

Well Bell, since july 4, removed the capps (at least for Québec and Ontario).

Re:Ouch. (1)

ebuck (585470) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493161)

Although I get a good laugh out of your byline, I have to wonder...

How much is their stock inflated by dragging in customers they normally wouldn't have? For example, my local telco wasn't "able" to provide me with ADSL unless I managed to change my phone service and my long-distance service. They won't make any money from the long distance service (1 call in 4 years), but I remeber what a fight it was (in the media) to even have a choice of local providers.

Mabye I could have fought it, and mabye I couldn't. But it was definately portrayed as a "you HAVE to use us to use OUR ADSL" situation.

Christ?! (-1, Redundant)

Toby Studabaker (690428) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492918)

And it wasn't like this before? Jesus Christ! The joys of uncontrolled capitalism...

Here is a mirror of the article (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492919)

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Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messry to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.Important Stuff:

slashdotted - full text of press release (0, Redundant)

ih8apple (607271) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492928)

CRTC directs incumbent telephone companies to offer high-speed Internet services to competitors' residential telephone customers

OTTAWA-GATINEAU -- In a decision issued today, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) directs the incumbent telephone companies to provide their retail high-speed Internet services to residential customers of competitors upon request.

The incumbents--Bell Canada, Aliant Telecom, Sasktel and TELUS-- are to remove the restriction in their rules that makes their high-speed Internet services available only to their own residential customers.

Today's decision is about removing the obstacles to fair competition, said Mr. Charles Dalfen, CRTC Chairman. Making the incumbents' high-speed Internet services available to the competitors' subscribers will give customers more choice when it comes to choosing local telephone service providers and should enhance competition.

In this decision (Telecom Decision CRTC 2003-49,[] Call-Net Enterprises Inc. - Request to lift restrictions on the provision of digital subscriber line Internet services), the Commission has determined that by refusing to provide retail high-speed Internet services to competitors' customers, incumbent telephone companies are unjustly discriminating against their competitors and giving themselves an undue preference. This practice contravenes subsection 27(2) of the Telecommunications Act which prohibits unjust discrimination and undue preference.

The decision requires the incumbent telephone companies to make their high-speed Internet services, including Lite services, available to a competitor's residential telephone customers, who are served by local loops i.e. lines leased by the competitors from the incumbent telephone company.

The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission is an independent public authority that regulates and supervises broadcasting and telecommunications in Canada.

Reference document: Telecom Decision CRTC 2003-49

Re:slashdotted - full text of press release (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492976)

Slashdotted? Not from where I'm sitting.

Re:slashdotted - full text of press release (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493005)

Well, I couldn't get to it....

A word of caution: (4, Insightful)

Meat Blaster (578650) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492946)

We split our national phone company, and it turns out the rates kept going up while the level of service went down. Apparently, there's some sort of economic force called "scale economy" that reflects the fact that having multiple companies providing the same service means a lot of costly redundancy.

Some monopolies should be broken, but others are better off regulated. We got Unix out of AT&T, but I'm not even getting reliable Caller ID out of the local tel.

Re:A word of caution: (4, Insightful)

Realistic_Dragon (655151) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493086)

We split our national phone company, and it turns out the rates kept going up while the level of service went down.

We split up our ADSL providers in the UK, and service went up while costs went down with the exception of the services offered by the old monopolist.

They offer the worst service with the worst reliability at almost the highest cost - now imagine how bad it would be if they had no competition at all?

It's aboot time! (-1, Troll)

burgburgburg (574866) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492950)

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll finish my Labatts.

Re:It's aboot time! (1)

tonywong (96839) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493201)

Sorry mate, but Labatt's has been an Interbrew company for some time now. Interbrew is Belgian.

Molson would be a better choice. It's only 20% owned by Miller and another 20% by Phillip Morris.

*scratches head* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492951)

"The Commission also directs MTS Communications Inc. to show cause why it should not also be subject to the Commission's determinations set out in this decision."


Yeah, I'd like to know why they think they're exempt too...

Though, I'm compleatly happy with MTS's services, DSL, local phone, long distance and cell. I'd just like to know why they think they don't have to be subject to this...

overrated,eh? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492960)

*_T_U_B_G_I_R_L_*_T_U_B_G_I_R_L_*_T_U_B_G_I_R_L_*
T_____________________/***********\_____________T
U__________________/***(****)(**)**\____________U
B_______,-_~_-_(*(*)***/__\********|____________B
G_____/________(***(*(*)____\**)*(**|___________G
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R_,___________|*()/___\______(***/_-----------__R
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*/___________/*/________\__|_/**/---___,_,_____|*
T________/__/*/__\______|__|_|*|____,/______\__|T
U_______/_((*))_###_\__0____(**)/--/_________\_/U
B\_/________-___\_##__/__-___/*(___|____________B
G_,________________-__)__\__(*)____\____________G
I.____________________\__/__()__\___\___________I
R/_____________________\___Cmdr_)\__)___________R
L_______________________\(_Taco)_/__(___________L
*________________________|\______|___/__________*
T_________________________|___-__|__/___________T
U\_________________________\---_-------_________U
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L___________----________________________________L
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What the hell is that? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492982)

An ear? Tornado? Angband map?

Re:What the hell is that? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493011)

Re:What the hell is that? (0, Offtopic)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493172)

Dear God, it looks like Col. Mustard is about to take Madagascar!!!!

Here it comes (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492961)

I can see the posts now.

"This is proof that Canada is better than the US"
"Further proof why I'm glad I live in Canada"
"Bush bad!!! Canada good!!!"
an so on...

The article is nothing but a troll.

too bad for the bells (0)

havaloc (50551) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492964)

If Canada bell is anything like the bells over in the US, they had it coming. The US bells have been abusing people for over 100 years. Normally I'm for the free market system, but sometimes, enough is enough. (note that if we hadn't granted them a naturally monopoly in the first place, perhaps we wouldn't have the problems we do now).

Re:too bad for the bells (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493089)

The problem is that we didn't allow them to stay a natural monopoly like we did with the post office. Innovation has been at a standstill since the break up. Cell phones have been around for decades and while you can do stupid crap like take pictures and play games you still can't get anything near reliable service.

Also, my phone bill is just as high as it was pre-break up (including inflation) and the service is no better.

You should also read the article since none of this has anything to do with your post or my post. This is not exactly punishing to the Bells. If anything it gives them a reason to be in more markets.

Two edged sword (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492973)

Effectively this ruling splits local phone and net services, opening both up for competition and lower prices

This also opens up the possibility of finger-pointing and blame assigning, instead of problem resolution. A couple of years ago, I had difficulty getting DSL from DirecTV DSL over BellSouth's phone lines - rather than solving my problem, the two companies used me as a message carrier in their blame war. I gave up, got a cable modem, and haven;t looked back.

Does this mean...? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6492978)

They have unbundled local service and dsl so that people don't have to pay for a land line to get high speed internet access? So a person could just subscribe to the high speed service and do his own internet telephony?

But, can they still compete with cable? (2, Interesting)

BiteMyShinyMetalAss (444575) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492984)

Sure, opening up things to competition would be nice, but at the moment, there's two big things that hold me back from using Bell's ADSL: the monthly bandwidth cap, and the speed. I'm with Rogers, and they decided to hold back on implementing a similar plan until they were done seeing how Bell fared with it... and they haven't implemented it yet. :) Plus I've found that my cable connection is often faster than friends of mine who went with Bell.

From where I'm sitting, it costs about the same for Bell or Rogers. The unlimited bandwidth and increased speed that Rogers offers is very nice, considering that I have roommates whose downloading habits I can't control.

In other words, the telcos can compete with themselves all they like, but (at least in my situation) it's a moot point if they still can't really compete with cable.

Re:But, can they still compete with cable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493074)

newsflash: bell sympatico has no more limits for high speed or high speed ultra and the high speed is now at 1.5 megabits.

Re:But, can they still compete with cable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493075)

Sympatico is now unlimited again as of July 4th. Also, why go with either Sympatico or Rogers, they are too costly. Go with a reseller and get unlimited for 29.95/month.

Re:But, can they still compete with cable? (4, Informative)

gregmac (629064) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493087)

From where I'm sitting, it costs about the same for Bell or Rogers.

I've been using smaller ISPs for DSL, and they're a lot better. Bell Nexxia owns the DSL network. Sympatico 'rents' the lines/bandwidth from Nexxia to provide high-speed internet. The problem with Sympatico is that they rent a certain amount of bandwidth for a geographical area (well, really, per-CO switchbox), and if they happen to have 300 subscribers in that area, they all have to share that limited amount of bandwidth, which is why it is often very slow.

The smaller ISPs will actually purchase 1.2mbit of bandwidth (or whatever plan you have) per customer. If they have 10 customers in that area, they get 12mbit of bandwidth (in reality, they probably maintain a ratio, but the effect is the same). As number of users increases, they get more bandwidth. As a result, my DSL is a lot faster than a friend of mine's who lives in the same building but is on Sympatico.

Re:But, can they still compete with cable? (1)

Demanche (587815) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493170)

Just a fyi, bells caps may soon be history, see their webpage for more details.

Discrimination against competitors? (2, Insightful)

The Masked Fruitcake (630078) | more than 10 years ago | (#6492994)

From the article:

...by refusing to provide retail high-speed Internet services to competitors' customers, incumbent telephone companies are unjustly discriminating against their competitors and giving themselves an undue preference.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for more competition. But "unjustly discriminating against their competitors"? And "undue preference"? Since when is it bad to give your own company "preference", and who are they to say it is "undue"?

This looks to me like socialism at work under the guise of capitalism. In the one hand, they uphold the virtues of competition, and in the other, they take away the rights of businessmen to decide how they compete. *shrug*

Re:Discrimination against competitors? (1)

smcavoy (114157) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493095)

The problem is we have almost no local phone company competition in Canada.
If I *were* to use sprint instead of Bell, I would not be able to have ADSL, I would need to have a bell local line.
That seems unfair does it not?
And their not deciding how they will compete, their forcing them to do so.

land line telephone services = days are numbered (5, Insightful)

Supero100 (664946) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493000)

Interesting - let the competition begin.

However, we'll all be wireless before too long, and there will be no place for DSL - unless this market competition drives the overall costs down. Who wants to pay for local phone service (if you're already paying for it with your wireless plan) if you just want DSL, which would then be an additional cost to the local line?

$30 local phone
+$60 DSL service
-----------------
($50) Digital Cable + ($45) Cable Internet

Assumption: You already pay $35 for a cellphone.

Sure, I'll take 125 channels as a perk for my decision making skills.

I hope this will make it harder for my decision making skills, it's amazing how quickly you learn that you have 125 channels and nothing is ever on!

Re:land line telephone services = days are numbere (3, Informative)

shadowofdarkness (578100) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493106)

Actually I am in Canada and a friend only pays $25 CDN for DSL from Telus. And if this story is correct due to competition it may go down

Re:land line telephone services = days are numbere (1)

Supero100 (664946) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493200)

Indeed, this is what I'm talking about. DSL has the burden of requiring the subscription of a service you already pay for (given that you have a cellphone). With cable, you at least get a non-redundant service for a similar amount of money. Hopefully, this competition will drive DSL prices down far enough so they are significantly lower than cable, and cause the price of (cable + internet) to also fall in response.

You must not live in Canada. (4, Informative)

dsanfte (443781) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493183)

Bell ADSL 1mbps/256k in the Ottawa area is $25/mo. In most cases, cheaper than the rest of your phone bill.

I don't get it... (1)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493195)

How the hell do you expect to rip 125 channels all at the same time?!! Some sort of Beow...<CARRIER LOST>

Guess what happens when you ASSume... (2, Insightful)

LordYUK (552359) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493213)

"Assumption: You already pay $35 for a cellphone.
Sure, I'll take 125 channels as a perk for my decision making skills."

One. Phone providers offer a 3-10 (I forget what it was after tax) dollar a month dial tone, which is fine for DSL. If your wonderful "decision making skills" can do the math on that one, you'll realize that if you DONT need actually need the land line, its cheaper to get that instead of paying for a 30 month "DSL connector" (so to speak).

Two. I wouldnt trade my land line for a cell phone any day. I can call anywhere I want in the US, I dont pay long distance, and the calls are crystal clear. I dont have to worry about charging my phone, or is it "off time (night/weekends)" or is the call going to be disconnected. I can hear the other person, the phone isnt the size of a used bar of soap so I can cradle it without holding it to my ear (and I have a headset too, in case I need "hands free", ie, gaming). Plus I'll never be tempted to drive with the fucking thing stuck to my ear.

Re:land line telephone services = days are numbere (1)

ebuck (585470) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493224)

More like +$30 for DSL service.

Yes, it WAS +$60, but prices keep dropping every day.

In soviet Canada(?) (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493004)

In soviet Canada(?), ADSL services you(?)!

(-1, due to lack of sleep typing)

Not pro-consolidation (1, Interesting)

volkris (694) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493015)

Stupid Slashdot...

The FCC rulings of late are NOT pro-consolidation, but simply anti-regulation.

The FCC is very simply recognizing that its place in the system is changing with the times.

This is one of those VERY rare times where a governmental organization has decided to limit its own powers, and Slashdot's complaining! The experts employed at the FCC recognize that its place is changing, and it shows the integrity to reign itself in, and the uninformed morons in Congress object!

Re:Not pro-consolidation (2, Insightful)

syberanarchy (683968) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493084)

Amazing how US governmental organizations only "reign themselves in" when massive corporations benefit as a result...

Re:Not pro-consolidation (3, Insightful)

CausticWindow (632215) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493098)

Most people would consider it a good thing to have more than two media companies in a country as large as the US.

Mass media equals power. Concentration of power is bad.

Don't forget that a diverse and critical media is one of the pilars of modern democracy.

whats the big deal eh? (1)

pigscanfly.ca (664381) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493067)

Its not really all that big of a deal . From a competition perspective bell is allready forced to allow all of the tiny little ISPs access to there lines for ADSL equipment , we have tones of little tiny hs providers competing for our business (see http://www.canadianisp.com/ for a good list of them) . I mean I dont really want bell ADSL service , it sucks and neither do I want telus ADSL service , I want the little tiny independt companies that I can already chose from :-) .

Way to go! (2, Interesting)

Mr Joe_Somebody (691200) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493090)

A few months ago I acquired a cell phone from Rogers AT&T. Soon I realized that having a cellphone and a landline phone seem redundant. So I cancelled my landline and have all my voice calls through my mobile phone. But cancelling the landline phone (from Telus) means I cannot get their ADSL service. Have to use the alternate Cable service offered by my Cable company. The decision means ADSL service does not have to be tied to you having a landline phone account Good job CRTC

Re:Way to go! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493108)

Where did you get that out of the article. It doesn't say that you don't have to have a landline. It just says that you don't have to have local service from one of the big boys. You still are going to have to have some sort of land line for the DSL to work (duh) and in order to have an active land line you are going to have to pay somebody for local service.

It's really true... (4, Interesting)

cioxx (456323) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493111)

I read an article [cnn.com] 2 days ago regarding Dismayed Americans who contemplate moving to Canada because the States had become too conservative and there was a quote which stood out from the rest..
"Canada has an opportunity to define itself as a leader," Hanley said. "In some ways, it's now closer to American ideals than America is."

And it's more evident with the recent news that we keep hearing how Canada is moving forward while the States are slipping into regress by way of draconian laws and regulations a la DMCA, Super-DMCA, Media Consolidation, etc.

Re:It's really true... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6493136)

Folks on the left would love Canada's pseudo-communism.

I'm canadian. It's a socialist nation, and getting more so every day.

Sweet! (5, Informative)

Z0mb1eman (629653) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493137)

I've had Bell ADSL in Toronto for almost 3 years now. Setup was a pain, and I had problems with it about one year later for a few days, but other than that it's been rock solid, and very reliable performance. Not FAST - 128kbps up, 1mbps down - but I know I can get those speeds any time.

Of course... 3 years later, I find myself paying more for less. Speed hasn't increased at all (why would it?), the price has gone up a few dollars, and they've introduced monthly transfer limits - 10GB combined upload/download, with absurd prices for extra bandwidth. What ticks me off is that they still advertise it as "unlimited".

There are other, smaller, local DSL providers - but the speed and prices are comparable.

Maybe this will finally help advance an industry that's been stagnant - from the consumer's point of view - for over 4 years now!

Hehehe... oh I kill myself... I really do...
*keeps looking for a way to afford SDSL*

I don't know what thats necessary.... (2, Interesting)

johnmearns (561064) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493144)

I work for a CLEC in the US and I really don't see why thats necessary. I'm sure we would offer a discount to customers who purchased phone service and DSL from us, the ILECs should be allowed to sell whatever packages they want as well. Allowing the little guy access to the lines is one thing, but regulating how they can sell their packages is too much.

Telus DSL (2, Interesting)

Pejorian (258646) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493155)

Telus, the big telco out here in the west, offers a good DSL service. They have not begun to enforce any capping, unlike the cable companies, and the speed is much better than many (if not most) of the US residential DSL providers...

I don't think this announcement will have nearly the impact in the west that it will have in the central and eastern parts of Canada. Out here, there really aren't any viable competing telcos, and Telus allows other companies to resell DSL under other brand names (for the same price, as far as I can tell) so who you get DSL from seems pretty irrelevant at this point.

Being able to get DSL-only service would be cool, however. I know people who really don't need a land line, but they have it just to get the DSL service.

Bell and Telus (1)

hey (83763) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493167)

Not only do they "lose" the case but they
get Slashdotted!
(I am joking because hopefully these guys have the
capacity to handle it.)

Carte blanche in the Midwest (1)

Ateryx (682778) | more than 10 years ago | (#6493207)

The gov't of my town (the most conservative city in MN) decided that it would be best for the city to let Charter Communications have free reigns as the sole provider (carte blanche).

The happiness this contributes to my life is undescribable... somewhere between the lowest rates for my modem/tv and outstanding service I receive makes me actually consider Canada as someplace I might actually consider living...

"Canada is kind of like a loft apartment over a great party" - Robin Williams

-Brad
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