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ATM For Anonymous Online Payments

simoniker posted more than 11 years ago | from the hopefully-no-camera-mounted-in-atm dept.

The Almighty Buck 254

prichardson writes "The New York Times has an article about a way to anonymously transfer cash online (NYT registration required)." The inventor, Carl Amos, believes the target market for his newly-patented 'Aunty IM' ATM machine "..might be teenagers.. [who] do not usually have their own credit cards, they usually have cash and are more than willing to spend it to download music or games", as well as "those who were worried about identity theft on the Internet, or who simply wanted the privacy it provided."

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GNAA GETS FP AGAIN! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494265)

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If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

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| ______________________________________._a,____ |
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ |
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-GNAA member 'penisbird'

Nevermind the GNAA, here's the BPAA! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494418)

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bpaa representative #648437

GIVE IT UP! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494441)

The GNAA has your chatroom own3d. Kinda makes your organization useless and weak. PS, your logo is screwed up.

You ask, "What is BPAA's policy?" (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494530)

.

I can say: It is to wage war, by sea, land and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy.

Re:GIVE IT UP! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494592)

Why do you guys post on here??? You are pathetic losers who really need to get a life.

Shalom!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494267)

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Re:Shalom!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494287)

YOU FAILED IT! [nero-online.org]
(warning, this link contains poop)

-I POOP ON FAILURES!

Re:Shalom!!! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494422)

2. There are a lot of Smart Jews, [jewhoo.com] which is bragable.(click on Science)

Compare the phrasing and the grammar with this post [slashdot.org] , and you now have a better idea who the half-brained poster of this gem might be ...

Re:Shalom!!! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494459)

Mazel tov on finding someone that made the same allusion, but nope, sorry. That slashdotter is not a member of the SJP(yet!)

google linkage (4, Informative)

Neophytus (642863) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494268)

heh. No reg required ;) [nytimes.com]

Cafepress accepts payments from these ATMs (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494389)

So you can buy these trendy T-shirts [cafeshops.com] !

Re:google linkage (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494454)

how many fucking nytimes articles do we have to read today? fuck.

no ill-will to parent just pissed.

ATM machine?! (-1)

Seth Finklestein (582901) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494285)

Do not say "ATM machine." It is redundant. You wouldn't say "PC computer" or "IBM machines," would you?

The phrase "ATM machine" has no place in the English language. Of course, the Slashdot editors don't speak proper English, so it doesn't surprise me at all that they used the phrase "ATM machine" in the blurb atop this page.

Re:ATM machine?! (1, Flamebait)

gantrep (627089) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494384)

Yo dizzog, i is gonta go to da ATM machine and put in my PIN number so's i can gets some cash money so's i can go see 2 Fast 2 Furious. Wanna come wit?

Heh, I'm so funny. (1)

gantrep (627089) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494478)

Also,

Will these new ATM machines use the HTTP protocol?

Re:ATM machine?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494506)

Do not say "ATM machine." It is redundant.

You Slashdot grammar nazi need a girlfriend

I'm on to you, Michael Sims.

Yeah, right, obviously ...

Yay (4, Insightful)

B3ryllium (571199) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494293)

Now we can secretly fund the legal defense of mp3ers and linux users ...

Power to the people! Vivé la transaction!

Best MUD of all time making a come back! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494297)

telnet mud.arcadia.net 4000

64.90.160.100:4000

Have fun!

http://arcadia.net/MUD/

Have no fear! Arcadia is here! (to stay)

I TRIED IT... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494509)

It's damn good.

Good ol' PK muds... just like the good ol' days.

Article Text (-1, Redundant)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494299)

A 'Funky A.T.M.' Lets You Pay for Purchases Made Online
By TERESA RIORDAN

the 1997 science-fiction movie "The Velocity Trap," the interstellar banking system is so decimated by electronic crime that the only way to exchange money is in cold hard cash. Armored federal banking ships have to shuttle currency from planet to planet.

Carl Amos, an inventor in Atlanta, also anticipates a return to the cash economy but without the computer-generated visual effects. Mr. Amos recently patented a way to pay for online transactions with bills and coins rather than credit or banking cards.

Advertisement

"In upwards of three-quarters of the world, most money transactions are cash only," said Mr. Amos, who envisions a big market for his invention.

Basically, what Mr. Amos has patented is a new combination of existing technologies.

His patent, No. 6,554,184, covers a modified A.T.M. that not only dispenses money but, like a vending machine, accepts cash, which can be used to transfer money from one person to another or to pay for online purchases.

"It's a method patent, a new way of doing business," Mr. Amos said. "These are off-the-shelf components. All I had to do was build the machine and write the software."

Mr. Amos is a rare breed: an independent inventor who actually makes a living off his inventions. A former electrical engineer at I.B.M., he left corporate life to develop his idea for a holographic lens. Since he patented the lens in 1994, he estimates, he has received about $1 million in royalties.

Mr. Amos, one of six children, grew up on a farm in Ohio, where he set up his own skunk works in a shed. Not all his inventions were successful. One was a parachute to be worn while leaping off the garage. "I survived, obviously," Mr. Amos said. "My siblings survived, too, thank goodness."

Mr. Amos said his latest invention, should it become widely available, would obviate the need for services provided by Western Union and other money-transfer companies.

Another big market in the United States, Mr. Amos said, might be teenagers. Though they do not usually have their own credit cards, they usually have cash and are more than willing to spend it to download music or games.

Mr. Amos also said his system should appeal to those who were worried about identity theft on the Internet or who simply wanted the privacy it provided.

Gamblers may be interested in the technology. Many credit-card companies, for example, will not authorize payments to gambling sites. Nor will PayPal, the biggest third-party payment option on the Internet.

Tom PenisBird, a law partner specializing in banking patents at Testa Hurwitz & Thibeault in Boston, called the invention a "cute idea."

"It's like a funky A.T.M.," Mr. PenisBird said. But the patent itself, he said, is "fairly narrow" and may be easy for others to come up with similar inventions that do not infringe the patent.

Mr. Amos, who is represented by a licensing firm in Connecticut, said he was approaching banks about licensing his patent. "Western Union and Moneygram haven't called me yet," Mr. Amos said. "But I don't expect them to."

-------

The real news is that someone patented something, so you're all supposed to run around flapping your arms like you've been wronged.

Re:Article Text (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494333)

A better, more "hip" and "in" way to get karma with nytimes stories is to use the partner hack, as shown by one of the first posts to this story...

Just a tip :)

FUCK YOU, "HIP_GUY"!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494388)

maybe you should read what he actually posted before you try to be "cool-guy"....you stupid fuck.

oh, a GO PENISBIRD, GO!!!!

Re:Article Text (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494522)

Hey Stratjackt, you're not trolling as an AC [slashdot.org] anymore ?

why no google link in article ? (0, Offtopic)

rokzy (687636) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494301)

scared off by the NYT lawyers ?

GNAA blows, all about the CPT (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494304)

"Ugh... UGH!" Chris Pirillo moaned as he squatted
over the ThumbDrive. He eyes darted back and
forth like a stone man and he sighed gay breaths
as he attempted to shove the device filled with the
entire line of eBooks into his anus. His geek house
trembled with fag vibrations coming from his crack
but then- his doorbell rang, whistling the tune
from "Matlock" throughout his hovel.

"Damn" he howled in a gay, sepulchral voice and
slipped on a pair of pastel slacks. He trapsed to
the threshold of his cold abode and grabbed the
greasy doorknob that was shaped like Birdman.
With a slavish sigh, he opened the door to see
none other than Adam Sessler himself!

A gay gasp escaped from Chris's dork lips and
Adam began to speak. Quickly, Chris snapped at him.
"Damnit for the last time you vagabond, you're not
supposed to be here!" The revolting nerd slammed
the door in Adam's face, but the Game Master
quickly shoved his iron boot inbetween the door
and the wall, wedging it open. "I have come for you,"
he spoke in a cold tone; electric arcs coursed
between the spikes in his cockneyed bleached hair.

Adam howled as a blast of mystic Boohbahs
emanated from his busy shirt and slammed
Chris down the hall and into a Microsoft Digital
Picture Frame. Chris grunted and swiped nerd
dust and sheetrock from his arms. He rose to
his feet and watched in horror as Adam brandished
a weapon made from 3 Xbox controllers tied
at the ends. "Oh my word! Game peripherals!"
the dork bellowed; the stench of Cheetos and
Diet Dr. Pepper wafted from his geek teeth.
Instantly his palms began to sweat at the very
sight of them, as if the grease from his McGriddle
hadn't slicked them up enough.

Chris tried to run from his game-playin' adversary,
but it was too late. Adam swung the weapon above
his head and threw it at the King of Nerds,
entangling his legs and forcing him to the floor.
Adam pulled a cestus made from PS2 DVDs
out of his Spice Girls backpack and rushed Chris.
He swiped at his turdly back over and over, causing
streams of cold blood to squirt from his flesh.
"Oh god, the horror, the HORROR!" Chris moaned
as Adam butchered him relentlessly. A old Brit with
one eye and a cockneyed accent burst into the
room and started kicking Chris in the side.

Chris was just about do die when... he rose from
his bed. It was just a dream! He laughed and
took a sip of more Brawls Guarana, hoping he
wouldn't fall asleep again. "Time to plot..." he
grumbled and shoved yet another pin into his
Leo Laporte voodoo doll.

==-ATTENTION-==: I Will be gone for a week and will need a new Chris Pirillo troller (CPTer). Email me at lieberman5@hotmail.com and I'll hook you up as the official CPTer of /.

Perfect. (4, Interesting)

dildatron (611498) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494312)

This would be perfect for when you want to buy something without being tracked... but there is still a trail. You could use one of these machines, but if the feds got involved, they could probaqbly find you (from the camera, etc). It would leave some sort of a trail. Still, not bad for buying that fake vagina you always wanted.

Re:Perfect. (1)

todu (560148) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494465)

Yes. What's there to stop "them" from scanning and storing the serial numbers from each bill you take out from the ATM? If "they" later want to know who where likely to have paid for x, they can compare the bills serial number from both machines.

--place tinfoil hat reference here-- (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494500)

just wanted to spoil it before someone did it.

Re:Perfect. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494539)

Fake?!? With an anonymous system, you might as well buy the real thing.. high heels, perfume and all. It's too bad most prostitutes are crack whores now. Damn it.

How can I pay you? (3, Interesting)

Arslan ibn Da'ud (636514) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494318)

So how would I go about paying someone online? Today I could use
a credit card or Paypal at someone's web site...how could this be
done from an ATM? (No, I'm not gonna try to punch in the recipient's
URL!)

That's a rather critical detail not mentioned in the article.

Re:How can I pay you? (4, Interesting)

dildatron (611498) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494365)

It could issue a "temporary credit card" - maybe it could spit out a tempporary card with the number on it, etc, that had the balance of the cash you put in. Basically an anonymous, pre-paid credit card

. You could then use that number like any other card (visa/mastercard/etc). Jsut a thought. The article didn't really specify.

Re:How can I pay you? (1)

puck71 (223721) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494518)

I just had an idea like this. I thought it would be handy to be able to have a card that went through the credit card systems (i.e, could be used wherever you use a credit card), but wasn't a credit card and wasn't tied to a bank account. It would just be cash. You pay $100 cash and get this "cash credit card" that is worth $100. Then you can pay online with a "credit card" without all the downsides of a "real" credit card. I don't know how this could be implemented, but it would be cool.

Re:How can I pay you? (5, Informative)

Jac_no_k (5957) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494584)

Doesn't American Express have something like this? It's called Private Payments [americanexpress.com] . It gives you a unique number that's lets you obscure your identity.

Now there's probably a market for teenagers and such. But I'm thinking pre-paid cards will take care of that...

Re:How can I pay you? (1)

Kotukunui (410332) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494397)

By the looks of the photo the machine has a built in browser (full screen and keyboard). I think it just does the cash-to-bytes thing when you get somewhere that requires a payment.

Re:How can I pay you? (1)

L. VeGas (580015) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494409)

Presumably, it will provide something like the disposable calling cards.

NYT Registration (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494320)

For you too lazy to register:

Member ID: nigger
Password: nigger

yes, it really does work

Money Launderer's dream (5, Insightful)

L. VeGas (580015) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494321)

'nuff said

Re:Money Launderer's dream (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494463)

Oh yeah baby! I'm dreamin already.

Re:Money Launderer's dream (1)

Alien Being (18488) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494481)

IANAMobster but I don't think the idea of money laundering is to hand it to a bank. If the bills are being tracked, the bank/treasury will pick it up. Don't forget, one end of the transaction is traceable.

Re:Money Launderer's dream (1)

L. VeGas (580015) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494505)

The most common way of laundering money is to create a shell business and over-report sales.

In other words...

1. Set up sham software business.
2. Buy licences from yourself.
3. PROFIT!

Re:Money Launderer's dream (2, Insightful)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494549)

Money laundering doesn't mean turning counterfeit money into real money, it means turning money earned through illegal activities into "legitimate" income. Like say you make money though selling millions of dollars worth of cocaine, you have to somehow hide the source of that income. You turn dirty money into clean money, thus the laundering part of money laundering.

This system is simply a way of transfering cash online. I don't see how this would be usefull for money laundering.

Re:Money Launderer's dream (1)

FunkSoulBrother (140893) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494585)

you don't see how this would be useful?

Step #1: Earn $100,000 selling cocaine.

Step #2: Make 100 anonymous $1,000 purchases to "friends"

Step #3: "Friends" make legitamate purchases from you on Ebay.

thus your money is laundered (provided you pay income tax on your ebay sales.)

Re:Money Launderer's dream (1)

zoloto (586738) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494504)

probably so, but you could cap the limit to 50 bucks or something. enough for the kids to download their music from iTunes w/o a great risk for $$ laundering. at least not too big of a risk.

just my 0.02c i'll pay you anonymously :)

NYT reg, and so on (-1, Redundant)

Trelane, the Squire (608266) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494322)

A 'Funky A.T.M.' Lets You Pay for Purchases Made Online

By TERESA RIORDAN

the 1997 science-fiction movie "The Velocity Trap," the interstellar banking system is so decimated by electronic crime that the only way to exchange money is in cold hard cash. Armored federal banking ships have to shuttle currency from planet to planet.

Carl Amos, an inventor in Atlanta, also anticipates a return to the cash economy but without the computer-generated visual effects. Mr. Amos recently patented a way to pay for online transactions with bills and coins rather than credit or banking cards.

"In upwards of three-quarters of the world, most money transactions are cash only," said Mr. Amos, who envisions a big market for his invention.

Basically, what Mr. Amos has patented is a new combination of existing technologies.

His patent, No. 6,554,184, covers a modified A.T.M. that not only dispenses money but, like a vending machine, accepts cash, which can be used to transfer money from one person to another or to pay for online purchases.

"It's a method patent, a new way of doing business," Mr. Amos said. "These are off-the-shelf components. All I had to do was build the machine and write the software."

Mr. Amos is a rare breed: an independent inventor who actually makes a living off his inventions. A former electrical engineer at I.B.M., he left corporate life to develop his idea for a holographic lens. Since he patented the lens in 1994, he estimates, he has received about $1 million in royalties.

Mr. Amos, one of six children, grew up on a farm in Ohio, where he set up his own skunk works in a shed. Not all his inventions were successful. One was a parachute to be worn while leaping off the garage. "I survived, obviously," Mr. Amos said. "My siblings survived, too, thank goodness."

Mr. Amos said his latest invention, should it become widely available, would obviate the need for services provided by Western Union and other money-transfer companies.

Another big market in the United States, Mr. Amos said, might be teenagers. Though they do not usually have their own credit cards, they usually have cash and are more than willing to spend it to download music or games.

Mr. Amos also said his system should appeal to those who were worried about identity theft on the Internet or who simply wanted the privacy it provided.

Gamblers may be interested in the technology. Many credit-card companies, for example, will not authorize payments to gambling sites. Nor will PayPal, the biggest third-party payment option on the Internet.

Tom Turano, a law partner specializing in banking patents at Testa Hurwitz & Thibeault in Boston, called the invention a "cute idea."

"It's like a funky A.T.M.," Mr. Turano said. But the patent itself, he said, is "fairly narrow" and may be easy for others to come up with similar inventions that do not infringe the patent.

Mr. Amos, who is represented by a licensing firm in Connecticut, said he was approaching banks about licensing his patent. "Western Union and Moneygram haven't called me yet," Mr. Amos said. "But I don't expect them to."

In case of slashdotting, and to avoid registration

Too Much Freedom? (2, Insightful)

2starr (202647) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494323)

Ok, I'm normally a big proponent of identity freedom on the internet, but I'm having a little trouble justifying this one. I think you need to be able to trace the money trail. I just think there are too many bad uses to justify the few good ones.

Arguments?

Re:Too Much Freedom? (5, Insightful)

Lord Kholdan (670731) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494364)

Ok, I'm normally a big proponent of identity freedom on the internet, but I'm having a little trouble justifying this one. I think you need to be able to trace the money trail. I just think there are too many bad uses to justify the few good ones.

How about the fact that it's no different from cash?

Re:Too Much Freedom? (2, Insightful)

2starr (202647) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494424)

Well, no, that's not true. Sure, I can hand cash to someone annoymously but I can't (easily) send cash to someone in -say- Afghanistan. I'm sure it's possible, but you'd really have to work at it.

Re:Too Much Freedom? (1)

Lord Kholdan (670731) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494574)

Well, no, that's not true. Sure, I can hand cash to someone annoymously but I can't (easily) send cash to someone in -say- Afghanistan. I'm sure it's possible, but you'd really have to work at it.

Physical Mail?

Re:Too Much Freedom? (1)

jason0000042 (656126) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494429)

Ok, I'm normally a big proponent of identity freedom on the internet, but I'm having a little trouble justifying this one. I think you need to be able to trace the money trail. I just think there are too many bad uses to justify the few good ones.

How about the fact that it's no different from cash?

Well we should put thumb print reader smart chips in all bills and coins so we can track when cash changes hands. That will be easier than setting up a net of RFID readers every four square feet all over the planet (including in the air and under the sea) to track cash properly.

Re:Too Much Freedom? (3, Insightful)

John Hurliman (152784) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494444)

Cash sales generally happen in person. The main abuse I see with this system is black market money being moved around without a trail, but this isn't a whole lot different than Western Union.

Re:Too Much Freedom? (1)

Xerithane (13482) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494573)

Cash sales generally happen in person. The main abuse I see with this system is black market money being moved around without a trail, but this isn't a whole lot different than Western Union.

Serial numbers, OCR, easy to track. Along with cameras mounted in the ATM you lose more privacy by using this system than the US Postal service.

ot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494399)

"If there is a better solution... steal it." - Thomas Edison

heh

Camera (1)

headbulb (534102) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494421)

ATM's have camera's So if the need arised they could get your face. This is how I invision it to work. You gat a card that has no named attached you put the card in the ATM. You put the cash in the mechine, the atm then puts the money on the card.(that does not have your name on it) So I see it could be a anomynous debit card. Being only able to spend whats on the card. But what banks will support it. I would get something like that. Maybe I should go lookup the patent.

Re:Too Much Freedom? (2, Insightful)

evilviper (135110) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494440)

I think you need to be able to trace the money trail.

So you believe in no privacy at all? You believe that nobody should ever be allowed to pay cash at stores? If I go to a store and pay cash, where is the money trail?

there are too many bad uses to justify the few good ones.

Please name a few bad uses... The money isn't really anonymous, law enforcement can still trace your payment to a source and destination. I would assume that this guy will be smart and require the companies recieving the money to be authorized, just as credit card companies require...

It's not the answer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494534)

To the problem of identity theft. I won't buy
anything online without using a "virtual credit
card number" from citi cards. They will
reimburse you if your citi card is hacked and
you get strange amounts from Egypt charged to
your account. The "virtual number" is good only
one time, so you get it, then use it. Refunds
are a problem, however, so you'd have some
'splaining to do to the merchant if the item is
not what you want, etc. and you paid for it with
a card number that is now "history". My Bank
told me _never_ to let my ATM card number loose
on the internet, and I will comply with their
request to keep it zipped up. So, all those
attractive online sites with fabulous computer
stuff for sale, I'll be passing them by for the
most part. I only deal with really big names,
and then use the citi card "virtual account
number". I imagine some of these so called
"online stores" are just fronts for credit card
theft and soforth. Call some of them up
sometime, and see how they sound in "person".
Try explaining why the "salesperson" has a very
heavy foreign accent. Also, isn't it strange
that you get to talk with no one else? Just
because a website looks legit, do some checking
around. I called the local police on one, and
they took a ride to the "supposed address" and
couldn't find anything. Beware, online shoppers!

Re:Too Much Freedom? (5, Interesting)

Knife_Edge (582068) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494537)

There is a money transfer system called hawala that allows two people in different locations with a means of communication, who trust each other absolutely, to transfer money without the aid of the banking system. Lots of people use it to send money from America to the the Far East - mostly because it is cheaper than Western Union, etc. However, I understand it is being cracked down on because terrorists were using it to move funds around. Still, it will be difficult to shut down completely since it only takes two people and a means of communication to operate. Most of the people who use this system today do so because there is no reasonable alternative (financial system is not good in their area), not because they are terrorists.

I have read that organized crime transfers money from country to country by wiring small amounts (under the amount that must be reported) constantly. Even though there is a paper trail of sorts, it is very hard to sort through. But again, most of the people who wire money are not organized criminals. Should we stop this practice because some of the people are?

Means of moving illegal money secretively already exist. I think the idea with this system is it could allow people to make online purchases, even if they are from an area of the world that does not have the financial systems and identification systems that we take for granted in the West. I am inclined to think the net effect of this would be good. Many people do not have any sort of identification or formal bank account (as required for a service like paypal, which is apparently unavailable in much of the world), but if they could get to a kiosk with some cash, they might be able to order something - provided someone was willing to ship it to them. This could be a big improvement in the lives of many people. It could also help economic growth, facilitating transactions at greater distances and of greater complexity than was possible before.

Should we not build any infrastructure because criminals could use it? Criminals can drive on the roads, too, but that does not mean we stop building them. We police them. This system would have to be policed.

Re:Too Much Freedom? (1)

Eminor (455350) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494581)

Ok, I'm normally a big proponent of identity freedom on the internet, but I'm having a little trouble justifying this one. I think you need to be able to trace the money trail. I just think there are too many bad uses to justify the few good ones.

It's not adding any new loop holes. Cash isn't tracable.

A black dude wanting your money? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494330)

He looks suspicious, kinda OJ-like. I'll pass.

Re:A black dude wanting your money? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494360)

You're an ignorant prick. Wake up and learn to love the rest of humanity.

Hrmmmm, terrorist concerns? (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494331)

Of course I did not read the article (when will you &#&@ editors get a freakin clue, post a non-registration link!!!!), but couldn't this be used by terrorists?

I remember Timothy McVeigh went to the trouble to use calling cards and hide his money trail to avoid raising suspicions... wouldn't terrorists be able to more conveniently purchase necessary wares now? Instead going into a farming goods store and buying large amounts of fertilizer, they could now do it anonymously online (but don't worry about that scenario anymore, the govt has taken care of that... but there are still other scenarios the govt hasn't taken care of).

Sure someone could sign up for a credit card under false credentials, but wouldn't that leave more of a money trail than an anonymous ATM?

Re:Hrmmmm, terrorist concerns? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494372)

Anonymous, at what level?

The guy obviously cant plan on handling that kind of cash without the IRS looking over his shoulder.

The sender and reciever never know who sent or recieved the cash.

Re:Hrmmmm, terrorist concerns? (1)

hobbesmaster (592205) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494593)

How do you order something without leaving a delivery address? If you're going to go pick it up yourself, why not pay cash in person?

And besides, the interstate highway system could be used by terrorists to quickly move people and supplies around. Should we shut down highways because of this use?

The market (5, Interesting)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494332)

PayPal wont accept payment for "adult" related eBusiness now (ie; pornos).

Whoever steps in to fill that gap make a friggin mint. The frontrunner seems to be CitiBank's C2It, though I know nothing of such services.

This looks like a good way to fund terrorists (-1, Troll)

phpsocialclub (575460) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494337)

I am sure that anonymous payments will never truely be possible because of the threat of money being transfered to "Evil Doers and Thugs"

Now drug dealers are going to have no problem transfering their money directly to the terrorists.

Re:This looks like a good way to fund terrorists (4, Insightful)

alen (225700) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494407)

The law is that if you transfer $10,000 or more to a financial institution it needs to be reported to the feds. Criminals will need to do a lot of micro transactions to pay their bills.

Re:This looks like a good way to fund terrorists (4, Informative)

PincheGab (640283) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494473)

The law is that if you transfer $10,000 or more to a financial institution it needs to be reported to the feds

It's not even that simple, nor is the threshold that high. There are several levels of reporting requirements and the lowest explicit thresholds are at about $3000 for most states.

Additionally, funds transfers companies are burdened with detecting "suspicious" transactions, and you have to report those no matter what the amounts are.

I am not going to spell out how to do this, just suffice it to say that the methods are very sophisticated.

This guy ain't implementing his invention in the USA (and the non-triangle of terror countries) until he gets some heavy-duty legal compliance checking stuff into his system. The age of anonymous funds transfers is over.

Hello DirectTV Programmer !!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494339)

Now I can pay for all my illegal goods and porn from the comfort of my basement.

Great!! (4, Funny)

DogIsMyCoprocessor (642655) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494344)

This will allow me to assist my Nigerian friend, Joseph Mbuto, in his attempt to free the $21 million dollar account his uncle once controlled.

What can it do? (3, Insightful)

Kotukunui (410332) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494345)

If you pay cash for your (legitimate?) music/movie/pr0n download, does the machine have a CD/DVD burner and a disc pops out, or does it have to re-direct the download stream to an e-mail account (thereby identifying the user, damn!).

Some more details on capability would be cool. Google here I come.

Going to need alot of work (4, Insightful)

isotope23 (210590) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494346)

I can see the US government blowing a gasket
about quick and easy anonymous money transfer...

Re:Going to need alot of work (3, Insightful)

zoloto (586738) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494524)

correct. and once some dumb criminal discovers he can use it to buy a gun (insert 1,000 $, get the card with amount on it, give to gun seller then go bang-bang) and then uses that gun to say... kill a high political figure (no insinuations there!!!) or popular person etc. BAM! instant ban or regulation.

it's nice but this, I fear, will go the way of big hair and mullets... unless you live in the south.

Re:Going to need alot of work (5, Interesting)

Xerithane (13482) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494554)

correct. and once some dumb criminal discovers he can use it to buy a gun (insert 1,000 $, get the card with amount on it, give to gun seller then go bang-bang) and then uses that gun to say... kill a high political figure (no insinuations there!!!) or popular person etc. BAM! instant ban or regulation.


Yes, and since you have the anonymous purchase card you don't have to register the gun or go through the other processes. "Here's my anonymous cash card!" "Right, here's your pistol and ammo." You do know that you have to register to buy a gun, right? You also know you can buy a gun with cash, right?

Anybody who accepts these cards will accept cash, and you have no benefit over them. For some reason I doubt that most private gun sellers will offer support for these cards.

What is happening to the English language? (4, Funny)

Khomar (529552) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494349)

From the article: "N the 1997" N?! Now even the New York Times is slipping into Net-speak. *sigh* My old high school English teachers must be in agony. So much for the American education system....

EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL METHOD PATENTS!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494351)

"It's a method patent, a new way of doing business," Mr. Amos said. "These are off-the-shelf components. All I had to do was build the machine and write the software."

So copyright the software, or patent the machine. Don't patent the method!

This is old hat in Japan (5, Informative)

TokyoJimu (21045) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494358)

Sorry to disappoint Mr. Amos, but for at least the past twenty years, you have been able to make anonymous cash payments at any bank ATM in Japan.

You just key in the bank name and account number to transfer to, insert the cash, and it's on its way. The ATM will even make change for you.

Re:This is old hat in Japan (4, Insightful)

todu (560148) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494521)

Hmm.. How very innovative of the inventor. So an "invention" as obvious as this may exist in Japan for 20 years, and still the US "inventor" gets a US patent? Did the PTO know this while issuing the patent? So prior art is only prior art if it is prior art inside the US?

Funny (4, Insightful)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494369)

The New York Times has an article about a way to anonymously transfer cash online (NYT registration required)

Why to I find this sentence funny ?

So, finally banking can be anonymous (yeah right, in your wildest dreams [whitehouse.gov] , but we still need to register with NYT?
No wait, you can't do do banking with a hotmail account ...

Is there an identity verification system? (3, Insightful)

alen (225700) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494377)

How does it perform identification to verify that the person picking up the money is the person you paid. I don't really see this serving any use since there already is a cash transfer system. It's called postal money orders.

Already been done. (3, Informative)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494381)

Good ol' R, S , and A made quite a while back a system to digitize money into extremly long numbers to represent money. Each number would be encoded the bill amount alone. They also proved it would be untrackable and unbreakable.

They also made into the system a way of determining real-time if any "bill" was being used more than once.

Wow. Anonymous atm. It's a real shocker if it hasnt already be theorized up to the top.

boring.

Good Luck (1)

FunkSoulBrother (140893) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494383)

Its already big pain in the ass (for an American)to get some money online to bet on a football game.

The way they crack down on the gambling industry, you can bet they'd scream "terrorism" and "drugs" and all the other things they have wars on.

Not to mention the Tax Evasion uses, and we all know that taxes are #1 when it comes to the governments concern.

Re:Good Luck (1)

alen (225700) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494446)

If this thing works over telecommunications circuits then it's illegal to use it for gambling. The law is decades old and not something that was made up for the internet.

Been Done..... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494386)

https://213.132.35.90/

sounds good (3, Insightful)

alienhazard (660628) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494387)

This sounds like a very good idea to me. Being one of those teens that has money, Its a pain to buy stuff online through my parents. Although I could also see this being used for bad, i.e. kids anonymously buying pr0n, alchohol, or other illegal/immoral things.

Re:sounds good (1)

UnknownQ (84898) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494540)

As another teen with money, I would suggest getting a debit card. If your bank is nice and your parents will agree to cosign on it then you should be in luck.
I can shop at any on-line store that accepts MasterCard (I, for one, welcome our new "master" card masters). The trick is I still gotta talk my parents into driving me to the bank when I have a check to deposit.

Amazed no one has mentioned ... (1)

binaryDigit (557647) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494392)

The sticker on the ATM that says "please ignore the camera". Oh and the finger prints you're leaving on the keypad.

Re:Amazed no one has mentioned ... (1)

pherris (314792) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494502)

Maybe this [www.zyn.de] and this [medisave.co.uk] would help.

Potential users... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494405)

"..might be teenagers.. [who] do not usually have their own credit cards, they usually have cash and are more than willing to spend it to download music or games"

Hah.. more like kids who will continue to download games and music from Kazaa, and instead sign up to pay-per-view porn sites ;)

Useless invention (3, Offtopic)

PincheGab (640283) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494408)

This sounds fine in principle, but the state banking authorities all over the USA are clamping down on "anonymous" funds transfers rather ferociously, specially after Sept 11.

This is not hearsay or speculation, I work in the financial services industry, and I can tell you that the financial laws are going the other way - less anonymity and higher identification requirements for money wires.

In other words, this guy will have to keep transactions down a ridiculously low upper limit to avoid ID requirements.

I have seen people wiring money for very fraudulent puposes, so I don't really share people's feelings that wiring money should be anonymous.

As for this guy's plans to use the technolgy abroad, he should take into consideration that the USA is requiring other countries to follow USA-like laws and he might have the same issue abroad.

Again, this is from first-hand experience, not hearsay.

Re:Useless invention (1)

alen (225700) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494430)

The article said that he is marketing this to kids buying junk on ebay I guess. But all the kids that bought DVD's from me paid me by money order if they didn't have a credit card. What use is this invention going to have? You need some form of identification to make sure that the right person gets the money.

Re:Useless invention (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494453)

He has your info sure, and essentially just deposits cash straight into your account. The customer needs no bank account, credit card, PayPal account, etc.

He just goes to the local box and sticks 20 bucks cash money into a slot, which electronically credits you. He is somewhat anonymous, paying cash (of course, you are shipping to him), you are not.

People are hyping the word "anonymous" erroneosly here.

eBay scammers will love this! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6494469)

They'll insist on you paying via this method, and then not ship you the item. You can't prove that you paid for it. Brilliant!

Very useful if properly implemented (2, Interesting)

cybermint (255744) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494431)

I run a couple websites and a large portion of my user base is kids in the range of 14-17. Collecting cash from them has always been a problem. Some would opt to send in cash, but this has problems as well. I can see this becoming very popular if it gets implemented well.

The breakdown of user demographics: (1)

JVert (578547) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494434)

10% paranoid tinfoil hat community.
15% teenagers buying from ebay.
60% preteens buying drugs and pr0n.
15% illegal transfers of hijacked subnets.

Thank you tinfoil hat freaks. You have made the world safer for us all.

Re:The breakdown of user demographics: (1)

ranolen (581431) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494578)

Did you know that 90% of stats are made up...

As a teenager, I can definitely see a use for this (2, Interesting)

Psyonic (547207) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494443)

Obviously this system is not perfect, but as a teenager who has a good deal of cash but no credit card, and doesn't like to go to his parents to buy stuff online, I think I would definitely use this if I thought it was safe. I am security-minded, but the main reason I would use this is convenience, not privacy. However, rather than buying music and games online, like the article suggested, I would probably use it to buy real merchandise (band shirts, etc)

Somethings not right... (3, Interesting)

fehlschlag (543974) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494447)

Although I really support the idea of being anonymous for protective purposes, I don't quite understand how this product helps very much.

Sure, you don't have the logs of cash coming out of your account (credit, savings, etc), but there is cash being sent somewhere, and that somewhere has to be well-defined for the cash to get there.
Also, the product, assuming something is bought, has to go somewhere, again a well-defined location, even if it is a mail-drop.

AFAIK, all wired money transactions are logged in some fashion, and for this to be approved by the government, it would have to be as well. I still don't see how super-beneficial this gimmick might be.

disposable credit card numbers (5, Interesting)

fredistheking (464407) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494468)

I had my account number stolen after buying computer equipment from small online stores (pricewatch). After having to change my account number I started using disposable credit card numbers from American Express [americanexpress.com] . These numbers can only be used once and expire at the end of the month. Also, if someone were able to crack the Amex system, at least I will be notified. I was not so lucky before. If you are really paranoid, I imagine that you can call and get these numbers over the phone as well.

Something like that must be done at a global level (1)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494491)

Not in all countries is easy to get an international credit card that can be used to pay things online. There are requeriments like age, minimum of transactions or salary, maybe not previus debts, and things like that.

Something that enables to pay directly with cash, no risks involved (like the fear of many of using their credit card number online) and really for everyone (well, with the cash and with that kind of ATMs near :) could do a real boom for online payments (at least, for the things that don't have a phisical good attached, like program registrations, online donations, domain buying and things like that).

Visa Electron and friends (1)

jmaatta (550428) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494512)

"..might be teenagers.. [who] do not usually have their own credit cards, they usually have cash and are more than willing to spend it to download music or games"

A Visa Electron debit card (and probably some others, I don't know) is currently the best solution for those who just can't get a credit card. It's basically a credit card that takes the money directly from its owner's bank account (if there's anything to take :). This requires a direct connection between the bank and the seller though, so most smaller sites don't support it.

Easily Bypassing NYT 'Registration Required' (5, Informative)

FsG (648587) | more than 11 years ago | (#6494579)

1. Click on URL, you're redirected to registration/login page
2. Go to URL bar, replace "www" with "archive" in the URL, leaving the rest alone, and hit ENTER
3. The system will bounce you around a few erroneous URLs, before returning you to the homepage
4. All NYT links will now work without registration, thanks to a special cookie set by the bouncing process
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