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iTunes: Don't Leave Home With Them

michael posted more than 11 years ago | from the apple-is-too-u.s.-centric dept.

Music 725

BadDoggie writes "Politech is reporting that your 'ownership' of music purchased from Apple's iTunes isn't what everyone considers ownership. According to the license, 'Apple may use technologies to verify' that you have not 'use[d] or attempt[d] to use the service from outside of the [United States]'. This includes Canada. Apple's 'technologies' delete the bought-and-paid-for files with no refund and no replacement when & if you leave the U.S." Update: 07/25 16:23 GMT by P : The post to Politech says the songs would "disappear," not be deleted; from the context, it seems they were merely unplayable, not deleted. Update: 07/25 21:34 GMT by M : Apple has contacted the guy, and is apparently making him happy. However, the question remains: Apple definitely doesn't want people buying new songs from outside the U.S., but do they intend to generally permit foreign users to reauthorize (in effect, retain access to) the songs they have already purchased? Apple's policy is very unclear on that point.

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A letter to the G*AA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531685)

You Are Being Flamed Because:
[ ] You posted a message concerning a pyramid scheme
[ ] You posted a "test" in a newsgroup other than alt.test
[ ] You posted something completely off-topic
[ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message
[ ] You posted a phone-sex ad
[ ] You posted a blatant troll
[ ] You quoted an ENTIRE post in your reply
[ ] You continued a long, stupid thread
[ ] You started an off-topic thread
[ ] You said "me too" to something
[ ] You don't know which group to post in
[ ] You suck
[ ] Your sig/alias sucks
[ ] You brag about things that never happened
[ ] I don't like your tone of voice
[ ] I think you might be a fed
[ ] You're a Nazi
[ ] You're a bigot

Sigh.... (0, Insightful)

theophilus00 (469290) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531690)

And iTunes seemed like such a positive step. Thanks, Apple.

Re:Sigh.... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531858)

And iTunes seemed like such a positive step. Thanks, Apple.

Oh please. It's just fine print to prevent export abuse. Remember, RIAA has lots of jurisdiction over ITMS and ultimately greenlighted it.

With that said, I've traveled to Ensenada, Baja, Mexico with my Powerbook which contained bunch of AAC tunes purchased from ITMS. Absolutely nothing happened, considering I've connected to the net from there under .mx mask.

This article is just nitpicking. Wait till we hear the full story from Apple and other respected news sources before jumping on the "Apple is just like Microsoft" bandwagon.

A license check a day.... (-1, Funny)

jkrise (535370) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531698)

Keeps Apple away.


I'm first (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531700)

And Apple's great service now has a great caveat!

Ah well... (1, Flamebait)

kmak (692406) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531716)

It's always the fine print.. I thought you were different, Apple!

Re:Ah well... (5, Insightful)

BJH (11355) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531866)

Hardly the 'fine print'. It was the first item on the Terms of Use page.

Sorry, but this guy made his choice - tough for him if he didn't read the EULA before plonking down the cash.

Apple is the Worst (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531720)

I trust Apple less then Sun, Microsoft, IBM and RedHat combined.

Re:Apple is the Worst (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531780)

Call this a troll if you want but Apple is way more scary to me then Microsoft has ever been.

Steve Jobs is a shady kat.

Moderators are idiots (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531879)

The only question here is whether the moderator who called that a troll was a mac fag or a linux fag. And no, it wasn't my post. Stop modding by opinion, assholes.

Silly Slashdot! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531722)

You know you're not supposed to publish the truth about Apple, Linux, or BSD. We're supposed to complain about technologies MS is pursuing that MIGHT allow them to do things like this, rather than stories about Apple already implementing it.

Huh (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531724)

Thank heavens for the analog hole, eh?

Sound signal comes out, goes straight back into the line-in.

Re:Huh (1)

TimeZone (658837) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531806)

How many of you have ever actually tried this? Sure, it works, but it often sounds like crap.*

* at least with normal PC hardware. chances are better if you're wrapping to a decent cdr deck.

Re:Huh (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531820)

Or even better, "Wiretap" ebies/

Re:Huh (3, Informative)

Gtz (18854) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531888)

You don't need to detour that way, as you can burn the iTunes songs on CDs. If you rip the CDs again, the resultings files aren't protected anymore by DRM.

Wow! Canada is *outside* the US! (5, Funny)

Burb (620144) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531727)

You know, I never knew that before. Thanks, Slashdot!

In soviet russia (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531729)

we *always* delete your itunes....

oh wait.

Heres a question. (4, Funny)

Unknown Poltroon (31628) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531732)

Sigh. I think its time to give up on online music, and since i refuse to buy cds anymore, Im just gonna go buy a kazoo.

Don't *buy* a kazoo... (3, Funny)

sczimme (603413) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531803)

download it from kaz...


Re:Heres a question. (0, Funny)

rmadmin (532701) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531817)

Banjo's are fun too. Just don't play any copyrighted tunes, or RIAA will come down on you with their nazi lawyers. And they'll sue your dad, and take naked pictures of your mom and put them all over the internet! Ugh... Can't we all just... get along? RIAA... is it so bad being a pathetic gimpy bitch that you have to lash out at everyone?

Not too interesting (1, Insightful)

hackstraw (262471) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531733)

1st, this letter has inconsistancies in it. It 1st says that the songs disappeared, but later said that they could not be played.

When reading the "Terms of Service", it says that purchases are not available outside of the US and the "service" is not used outside of the US. I'm guessing that iTunes must phone home or something to do with its DRM. If he were to move back to the US, I would guess that he could play his songs again, provided that they were not deleted.

As his letter ends with, maybe we should buy CDs, they are not that expensive when bought used, or download free music [] , or "share" mp3s off of someone you don't know.

Re:Not too interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531758)

Ummm... Surely if they had dissapeared then that definitley means they couldnt be played?

no friendly DRM (3, Insightful)

Gtz (18854) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531734)

This teaches us one thing: There's no friendly DRM, DRM is always bad, especially if you notice it when it's too late. I hope the users will learn from this and boycott the iTunes store unless they remove the DRM from their songs.

Re:no friendly DRM (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531748)

yeeaaaaaaah.. cause that makes sense, slashdot zealot

Re:no friendly DRM (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531903)

*high five*

Re:no friendly DRM (4, Insightful)

OmniVector (569062) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531904)

DRM is always bad, especially if you notice it when it's too late.
This is what people many don't realize, unfortunatly. The words "Digital Rights Management" impose the wrong feeling on people in the first place. It sounds more like it's empowering the user, when instead it's empowering the media corporations.

I hope the users will learn from this and boycott the iTunes store unless they remove the DRM from their songs.
Unfortunatly, as many have already said, this is the RIAA's doing, not Apple. It's kind of like the region encoded DVD situation. there is no good reason for the consumer why DVD X should only work in country Y. But it's there due to international restrictions/licensing/laws etc.

What...? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531735)

I thought I was allowed to take my ipod to any country I wanted with my iTunes bought music. Damn back plan B) Get music from gnutella networks instead.

But... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531737)

What about a country that's under US administration? does that count?

Re:But... (2, Funny)

Rhubarb Crumble (581156) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531818)

What about a country that's under US administration? does that count?

What, you mean if you take your iPod to guantanamo bay? You will obviously be detained as an enemy combatant and held in solitary confinement at the RIAA's discretion. ;-)

Re:But... (5, Funny)

kmak (692406) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531894)

You mean Britain?

C'mon guys (5, Insightful)

MemeRot (80975) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531739)

Apple's distribution rights are obviously limited to the US by the contracts they signed with the music companies. Or do you think Apple insisted on this themselves?

Re:C'mon guys (5, Interesting)

BobRoss (63028) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531782)

Exactly! And by the way, if you burn all your purchased songs to CD soon after you purchase them, then you don't risk losing them if your system goes ba-bye.

I'm sure those burned CDs still work in Canada.

Re:C'mon guys (5, Interesting)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531787)

Can you play US-bought CDs if you take them into Canada? Do the RIAA's distributors have any say in the matter?

Re:C'mon guys (5, Funny)

bsharitt (580506) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531834)

I bought a CD on that was originally distributed in Canada, but it still works in the US. I hope an RIAA swat team doesn't break down my front door and take my CD.

Re:C'mon guys (1, Insightful)

javatips (66293) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531798)

If that so, their license is more restrictive than their distribution rights mandate.

If they distributed the stuff in the US first, they should NOT prevent you from exporting it wherever you want. They already distributed it in compliance with their agreement.

Re:C'mon guys (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531821)

Obviously this would be the case, however if the music was purchased from within the US there is no reason it should have to be deleted one you leave.

That is like saying you have to throw all your CDs in the trash bin at the airport. I am sure the RIAA would love that but I don't see it happening.

Lets not try to give apple a full pass on this

Re:C'mon guys (-1, Flamebait)

danila (69889) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531831)

How was that modded insightful? Moving around something you bought is not distribution.

What Apple is doing here is theft. They are clearly stealing the products that you bought and destroying them. We usually can call such practice vandalism or burglary, but apparently not when a giant soulless corporation does that, especially if it is done in an electronic way.

Fuck Apple! Fuck RIAA! Fuck music!

Re:C'mon guys (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531841)

Sale of physical CDs is also restricted by distribution rights.

Are you claiming that if you as a private person buy CDs in the US you aren't allowed to take them out of the country and play them?

This person had already BOUGHT* the songs.

* Apple version of "BOUGHT" where you don't actually own what you've "BOUGHT".

Canada ... (5, Informative)

s20451 (410424) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531853)

According to this article [] : "Canada will be added to the Apple system when the CRIA completes its negotiations in the fall"

CRIA = Canadian Recording Industry Association [] .

Re:C'mon guys (1)

shaka999 (335100) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531859)

Who cares! What is your point?

Apple is offering the service, not the record companies. If Apple wasn't happy with the terms they could get they didn't have to launch a new business....

Please check my slashdot-correctness TIA (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531742)

Okay, I just want to make sure my opinions are "slashdot-correct" before I go around expressing them.

We hate, because it uses evil DRM, is that right? I want to make sure. Cause it seems like uses DRM also. I guess it's okay though because that is an Apple thing. I would never accuse Slashdot people of being hypocrites, of course... I just want to make sure my opinions are "slashdot-correct". There is no way slashdot people are hypocrites.

Who would have thought... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531743)

That we should be suspicious of any 'license' being perpetuated by a major corporation?

I don't know why the RIAA don't include a shrinkwrap license in every CD either.

Something tells me.. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531753)

.. it's bullshit. Can't hold up in court either.

No GPS please (2, Interesting)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531755)

One more reason not to combine GPS technologies into your handhelds.

Or one more reason to break their stupid DRM. After all, if you do leave the USA, the DMCA doesn't apply to you while you're on foreign soil, so you can then legally crack the DRM and make a proper backuup copy.

Re:No GPS please (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531871)

I'm sure there's a clause somewhere that prevents this. Just like you can't go over seas for drugs/sex/etc that would be illegal in the states, I doubt they'd let you jet over to mexico to crack their DRM and then zip back to scot free. Remember Sklyarov? He did his work in Russia and was arrested/tossed in jail when he showed up in the US of A.

Re:No GPS please (5, Informative)

paradesign (561561) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531882)

um... iTunes allows you to burn your files to CD, all, even 'officially' downloaded ones. so jsut buy, burn and delete. if you want it back DRM free, rip it to MP3, you can do that through iTunes quite easily.

Yes GPS please (1)

dara (119068) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531915)

The logical reaction to this news is to draw the line in the sand at Red Book standard CDs. Don't buy online DRM, don't go for DVD-audio, don't get non-standard CDs. Then rip your own mp3s, oggs, or whatever and put them on your GPS portable along with public domain maps (if possible in your country). There is no reason to forego GPS which is a great feature and getting cheaper all the time.


Great, the RIAA is going to want to do this too! (2, Funny)

Wacky_Wookie (683151) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531760)

Soon we will see the RIAA lobbying for the use of Millitery space-based lasers in order to do the same thing.

Just think, you are just crossing the boarder with a few CDs and ZAP! A huge laser blast from orbit evaporates your CD collection!

Pot of Gold... (-1, Funny)

engineerdude (680288) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531763)

It is apparent that Apple is being run by Leprechauns!!!!!!!

In Apple's defence... (5, Insightful)

chrisbw (609350) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531764)

...there's a chance that this was something that was mandated by their contractual obligations with the labels providing the music.

Hopefully Apple will be able to secure international licenses and make this a moot point.

Backups (5, Insightful)

miket01 (50902) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531767)

Well, here's a good reminder to read the license before paying good money for DRM'd "product".

Also, one could avoid this problem by burning the tracks to CD as back-up, which Apple can't really do much about no matter where you take them.

It figures (1)

bsands (685642) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531769)

It sucks, but Apple has to do what they have to do. I'm sure this has something to do with covering their butts from the wrath of the RIAA.

Re:It figures (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531815)

Why not from the government either? It's unlawful to export certain types of encryption which may very well be in use in the music from Apple.

Re:It figures (1, Interesting)

danila (69889) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531864)

That is crap. RIAA folks are clearly insane, but I am still not going to believe that they demanded this utter nonsense from Apple and refused to license the music to them, unless they make the playback of songs (bought in the US) abroad impossible.

Based on information you volunteer (5, Interesting)

artemis67 (93453) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531771)

According to the article, you either have to volunteer the change of address info to Apple, or change the address on your credit card.

So, don't tell Apple you moved and tell your credit card company that you lost your card and need a new one.

You won't be able to purchase new music, but at least you won't lose your existing songs.

What if... (1)

madaxe42 (690151) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531773)

Brilliant, seeing as half the intent of itunes is that you can have your music in a digital format, and use it on the move. Apple will be cutting out virtually all travelling businessmen through this. Perhaps, however, this is indicative of the new age of 'international' travel, from New Hampshire to Iowa. To tell the truth, this shouldn't make too much of a difference, seeing as 95% of Americans never leave the continental US.

Re:What if... (3, Insightful)

doubleacr (650815) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531848)

From the article "Apparently, if you change your contact address and/or have your US credit card address changed, as I did, you are no longer able to play the songs you paid for while on US soil." This has nothing to do with travelling outside the US from what I can tell, only MOVING outside the US.

On-line music stores (1)

IWantMoreSpamPlease (571972) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531777)

There's always a catch isn't there? And the Suits wonder why they (the on-line stores) aren't taking off...

Canada isn't part of the US? (5, Funny)

IDigUNIX (544392) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531783)

"use[d] or attempt[d] to use the service from outside of the [United States]'. This includes Canada."
Whew, for a second there I was thinking that we'd annexed Canada. Eh? I think that to be more clear, they should also specifically state that Mexico is outside the US. And, for those who are still in denial, they should state that New Jersey IS part of the United States.

Re:Canada isn't part of the US? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531889)

hey nothing wrong with NJ. it's a nuclear waste dumb these days but it's better then being homeless.

Re:Canada isn't part of the US? (1)

Gehenna_Gehenna (207096) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531896)

Liar. LIAR! I've been to Jersey, they are NOT like the reset of the US. The traffic laws defy reason, their hair defies gravity! For GOD SAKES they STILL LISTEN TO JON BON JOVI! WILLINGLY!

I'm almost certain theve been secretly annexed to Italy. Or maybee they are some sort of seperate Alien Republic.

Hmmm ... (1)

SuperDuG (134989) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531786)

So like everything else apple does there's a formula.

For every new technology that people find attractive there will be features that people don't like these features will be compounded by the amount of press the application gets, but will always be a number greater than one. (represented by +T^p with T=technology and p=problems)

Some developer/hero will then take the time to fix this problem by creating a program outside the program to eliminate this feature. So this is how you figure if Apple will have a successful product.

+T^p So in closing If (+T^p Give it a week someone will figure a way to disable apple from destroying your precious mp3 collection.

Gotta give apple some credit where credit is due, they are trying to control your multimedia yet again.

Oh *great* (0, Funny)

minion2 (531192) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531794)

First I can't bring my handgun into Canada, and now I can't bring my iTunes music?

There's a reason Apple can't let people use the iTunes music service outside of the US (I'm assuming this, at least, since they would bring it to other markets if they could. I'm sure they're working on the legal bits). If they don't have the legality of the service nailed down in other countries, they sort of have to *not* let people in other countries use the service. It makes sense to me.

They've very clearly said the service is only available in the US for now. Yes, it sucks for non-US residents. Deal with it. ...and *always* read the fine print. At least the first few paragraphs.

Sounds like talking to a human might be in order.. (5, Insightful)

pcaylor (648195) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531799)

Before condemning iTMS as being the ill-begotten spawn of the RIAA, Satan and Bill Gates, maybe the ex-pat should have tried calling Apple and talking to a real live person.

Apple is very upfront that the service isn't available outside the US (at least not yet) and they have apparently put in technical measures to enforce that. The key is if you can talk to a person on the phone or via email and get them to override a false positive. If you can, then this is a minor annoyance. If you can't, then Apple needs to rethink their system

Also, note that you can continue to play music you already purchased outside the US. It is only new purchases or reauthorizing music that you can't do outside the US

Re:Sounds like talking to a human might be in orde (2)

BJH (11355) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531895)

What's a "false positive" about it?

Person outside the States? Check.
Credit card registered outside the States? Check.
PowerBook outside the States? Check.
Music bought from iTMS on that PowerBook? Check.

Sorry, but it looks like he was trying to do exactly what Apple said they can't allow you to do - in the first paragraph of their terms of use. Tough.

Fine Print? (2, Informative)

Gil Da Janus (586153) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531801)

It's in the first paragraph. It's not hidden.

Unless the guy can't read, it's his fault - not Apple's.

I'm sure he has a backup - right? - it's the only way to use your computer and your data.


there's (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531805)

always a worm in the apple. who would have thought that a company, just in it for the money, would have some stupid ass clause in their contract?

And to boot ...

1. Listening to your iPod on the toliet will void the warentee.
2. Watching DVD's on your Wide Screen power book, void void void.
3. If you leave the US with anything other than txt files, apple will kindly make them poof. gone.

What's the problem? (-1, Flamebait)

CausticWindow (632215) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531807)

How many Americans leave the US in their lifetime? Can't be many, they have no reason too.

And how many of them again use ITunes? Seems like a no-problem to me.

I just knew (1)

reboot246 (623534) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531809)

there had to be a worm in that Apple somewhere.

So basically..... (1)

Ride-My-Rocket (96935) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531810)

There's no difference between iTunes and BuyMusic, except that iTunes might be more consistent in how it looks to infringe upon your fair-use rights.

Burn to CD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531822)

Before leaving the us, burn all the songs to a cd. You can always re-rip them.

Yet another reason to bend over and take it (1)

bigjnsa500 (575392) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531825)

Who else besides me is tired of companies doing this to people? What happened to the Fair Use policy? I paid for it, I can do with it what I damn well please!

I think its time we take a stand against this crap!!

Re:Yet another reason to bend over and take it (1)

reiggin (646111) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531899)

RTFL (license). i.e. Don't overreact before you've read the damn thing yourself. Sheesh.

C'mon, Apple (1, Funny)

Jasin Natael (14968) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531826)

Come on, Apple.
I see you jockin' me.
Tryin' to play like you know me.

Man, Apple, you're just making yourself look worse.
You know?
I mean, Everybody's just gonna feel sorry for me.
I mean, I do.

--Jasin Natael

Terms of Sale Legality? (1)

Laur (673497) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531827)

How legal are terms of sale? They seem to be even worse then EULAs, since most times you are not even required to click through them. Any thoughts or legal precedents on this?

Question (1)

RupertJ (520598) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531829)

I currently use a laptop for work (PII/NetBSD) and have been interested by the new mac laptops, iPods and iTunes service (which will enable to me to get work done while enjoying media) - I'm basically after a whole new rig. I'm thinking about buying a new laptop (OSX) with an iPod, and I travel a fair bit for my work. Does this cover situations where you could be transporting the device temporarily outside of the US and trying to update it over the 'Net?

Is there a way of converting these downloaded songs into a format (ogg/mp3) which doesn't have these restrictions so that I can travel without fear of losing the data?


License (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531832)

Euhm, the license tells me something else entirely.. You can't purchase outside of the US, and they are allowed to check if you are outside of the US. But you can listen to music outside of the US, if you bought it in the US.

The license is not that long, use common sense and actually *read* it.

Umm... overreacting? This makes sense. (5, Insightful)

Paradox (13555) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531833)

"Using the service" means trying to use the iTunes store. It doesn't mean listening to your music outside of the US. Right now, Apple only has the legal end worked out while you're in the US. It makes sense that they don't want a repeat of the iTunes "sharing" fiasco. What they are saying here is:

IF you attempt to use the service from outside of where they can legally sell you the music, then they MIGHT be able to delete the files you obtained illegally after you download them. WHEN at some later date your country is serviced by iTMS then you can now use the service from that country.

ITunes keeps your authorization offline, and it's a seperate file that you can backup and keep (so you'll be able to play your music even if apple's serves go down). So listening to your music abroad definitely doesn't count as infringement, since no service interaction is required.

That seems pretty reasonable to me. These "tools to detect" are probably somehow worked into iTunes, so it's not like Apple somehow is sneaking spyware into your system. Relax folks. iTMS isn't suddenly evil or anything. I really doubt that even authorizing your laptop while abroad is illegal.

You can still burn the tracks. (2, Insightful)

eoyount (689574) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531837)

You're still allowed to burn your tracks to CD for personal use, right? So just do that before you leave. I like having copies of my mp3s on CD anyway, just in case I have any computer problems.

Let's not mangle the license... (5, Informative)

Yosho (135835) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531839)

How about quoting what it really says?

Purchases from the iTunes Music Store are available only in the United States and are not available in any other location. You agree not to use or attempt to use the service from outside of the available territory. Apple may use technologies to verify such compliance.

All this is saying is that you may not use the iTunes service outside the US. This is likely not of their own choice, but because of agreements with the record labels that restrict them to distribution in the US.

Furthermore, it says nothing like, "Apple's 'technologies' delete the bought-and-paid-for files with no refund and no replacement when & if you leave the U.S." You're welcome to listen to your music anywhere you please. Read in the proper context, "Apple may use technologies to verify such compliance," obviously means that if Apple detects you using the iTunes service from outside the US, they'll stop you. Is that so harsh?

Just normal legal stuff (1)

boowax (229348) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531845)

This is just Apple covering their butts regarding export laws. I doubt that they would enforce this in any way unless they were under some legal pressure and wanted to pass the blame on to individuals who did the actual exporting.

ummm (1)

rhadamanthus (200665) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531850)

can't you burn the songs to CD? If so, what's the problem? Burn them to CD and then go to mars for all Apple knows or cares...


Re:ummm (2, Insightful)

hnoon (595720) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531898)

I may not want to burn it. I may travel a lot with my computer and not wanting to carry 50 cd's cross-atlantic with me is a reasonable request. If you're trying to get away with something then by all means go ahead and burn; as for me, I don't like vebdors going through my files and deleting them without my express permission.

This reminds me of a joke. (1)

Azathoth!EDC (222280) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531854)

Stay with me...

"The greatest invention is the thermous. It keeps hot things hot, cold things cold, but how do it know?"

The us question (1)

MC68040 (462186) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531855)

Just so we're not totally US centric here; does this apply in the same way if you buy the songs in let's say the uk and travel to spain or the other way around?

And yes I assume it will be like that, I was just woundering if anyone had any facts to line up about it.

not quite what the title says (5, Informative)

raptor21 (47540) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531860)

The author of the article claims he reinstalled his powerbook. And tried to redownload his purchased songs after changing his address permantly on both his credit card and iTunes to an outside US address.

Well that doesn't say apple will suddenly disable all your music files if you step out of US soil for say a week or a month.

Apple'sn policies clearly state that you may only purchase songs in the US.

The keep referring to it as a "sale" (3, Interesting)

91degrees (207121) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531863)

All sales are final etc. If it's a sale, can they unilaterally withdraw the sale based on a spurious interpretation of their terms and conditions?

Not an issue with eMusic... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531869)

Even if the licence stipulates you cannot move content outof the U.S. there appears to be no DRM type software "phoning home" or disabling the playback of downloaded mp3's. []

Shawn Yeager worked for Microsoft and MusicDirect (5, Informative) (551216) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531873)

The critique may be acceptable (music label's haven't arrived in the global economy/international culture yet), but Shawn Yeager's motivation is possibly not.

The guy that complains about Apple's restrictice licenses not only USED TO WORK FOR MICROSOFT, he also developed [] , a direct competitor to the iTunes Store. (Read it yourself on his Home page [] .

As the french say: honi soit qui mal y pense. ("shamed be he who thinks evil of it")

Apple's iTunes DRM Policy (1)

luwain (66565) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531874)

This isn't really much of a problem. The first thing I would do with any music I bought from Apple would be to convert everything to MP3 format, by playing the tunes and capturing the music directly from my sound card...

Big Deal (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531875)

Apple didn't delete his songs. They simply won't allow him to reauthorize his computer with the new address.

From the way I read it, if he hadn't tried to reinstall (necessitating reauthentication in iTunes) he wouldn't have had a problem.

Apple made it pretty clear that this was an USA only thing. I would suggest that the guy have some in the states burn all of his music to CDs. It sounds like he still has the files and still have the ability to play them (if he sets up a computer in the US to do so).

So I wonder (0)

Farnite (670426) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531876)

If I bought a cd, would it 'magically' not be able to be played in Canada? I think not. Just another form of out of control restrictions on digital media, and it will undoubtably be the end of the iTunes store.

It's illegal to export advanced encryption (2, Interesting)

Psyx (619571) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531877)

If there's any advanced encryption going on with those files it is against US law to export it.

Perhaps they're just trying to stay legal.

FUD! (1)

srealm (157581) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531890)

Bah, the license only says you can't BUY the music from iTunes outside the US.

Later in the license, they even give you explicit license to Burn and Export your music. (emphasis mine)

Theres also nothing about taking you're music overseas, just that you buy any new stuff while overseas.

A quick solution to DRM... (1)

Patchw0rk F0g (663145) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531892)

Step 1: Buy the song. Step 2: Set your Sound Blaster to record "What U Hear" mode. Step 3: Use your favourite flavour of sound recorder to make a DRMless copy. Three steps to a Job-less music economy.

so... (1)

xo0bob0ox (600085) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531901)

don't leave the U.S.
Problem solved.

It's the service - not the songs... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531902)

The license doesn't say that you can't listen to that you can't listen to your music from outside the U.S. -- just that you can't purchase songs using their service from outside the U.S..

It's early days yet... (3, Insightful)

Frogmanalien (521225) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531907)

Not to sound rude, but all you yankees moaning about how this service is limited to the US- at least you get the service to begin with! We're still waiting for a launch in the UK/Europe... And there's a thought- maybe once international liscensing is in place it maybe possible to take your music elsewhere. Everyone seems to be slagging off Apple for introducing a revolution that is "perfect" - but there's no such thing as a bloodshed free revolution. Give Apple some time, voice your opinion/feelings to Apple so they know how you feel, and maybe they'll solve the hitch. Legal hurdles aside, time changes everything... I think.

hahahaha (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6531909)

oh no

what's going on.

Everyone's favorite company is doing something wrong! Oh no, what will the sexless, pimple faced nerds do on a friday night if they can't masturbate to pictures of Steve Jobs and Linus?!!!

Apple's just another over hyped, over priced corporate asshole.

fuck em all

Outside the US (1)

scottennis (225462) | more than 11 years ago | (#6531910)

What does outside the US mean? Can users download only from the 50 states? What about Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands?

If I'm in the military and stationed on a base in Germany, can I use the service?
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