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Kroupware Komplete

michael posted more than 11 years ago | from the enough-with-the-k-jokes-already dept.

KDE 310

sorinm writes "The three companies behind the Kroupware Project (Erfrakon, Intevation and Klarälvdalens Datakonsult) announced its successful completion today. This new groupware approach using only Free Software is now available in stable versions under the Kolab brand name. Commercial support on an individual basis is already offered with further support options to come."

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GNAA FROSTY (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538270)

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Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!

First, you have to obtain a copy of GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE [imdb.com] and watch it.

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Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on EFNet, and apply for membership.
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If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is EFNet, and you can connect to irc.secsup.org or irc.isprime.com as one of the EFNet servers.
If you do not have an IRC client handy, you are free to use the GNAA Java IRC client by clicking here [nero-online.org] .

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

This post brought to you by Penisbird [nero-online.org] , a proud member of the GNAA

________________________________________________
| ______________________________________._a,____ |
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ |
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ |
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ |
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ |
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ |
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ |
| ____a,___jk_ GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_|
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ |
| ______-"!^____________________________________ |
` _______________________________________________'
-GNAA member 'penisbird'

BPAA Is Good for What Ails Ya! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538441)

Join BPAA Today!

BPAA (BISEXUAL POLYNESIAN ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which gathers BISEXUAL POLYNESIANS from all over America and abroad for one common goal: Being BISEXUAL POLYNESIANS.

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Are you a POLYNESIAN?
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If you are having trouble locating #BPAA, the official BISEXUAL POLYNESIAN ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is EFNet, and you can connect to irc.secsup.org [secsup.org] or irc.isprime.com [isprime.com] as one of the EFNet servers.

If you have mod points and would like to support BPAA, please moderate this post up.

This post brought to you by a proud member of BPAA

` __________________________________________________ ______
| ______________________________________._a,________ _____ |
| _________________________aj#0s_____aWY!400._______ _____ |
| __ad#7!!*P_____.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#_______ _____ |
| _j#'___0#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_____ _____ |
| _"#g____01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_____ _____ |
| __oe__tyugk____*@`gpdNl_______-!^_________________ _____ |
| ___lkp____ghq___pTW_______________________________ _____ |
| ____mw_____ff___oef_______________________________ _____ |
| _____er__ww_______________________________________ _____ |
| ______xde___BISEXUAL_POLYNESIAN_ASSOCIATION_OF_AME RICA_ |
| __________________________________________________ _____ |
` __________________________________________________ ______'

bpaa representative #648437

Re:BPAA Is Good for What Ails Ya! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538485)

So, are you a different AC, or do you just have too much time on your hands?

It's a Mystery! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538556)

The beauty of anonymous posting is that no one will ever know (excepting CowboiKneel)!

Join the Net Scouts [perry.com] today!

GNAAroupware Fr0sTy P15s! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538272)

Join GNAA Today! GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which
gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY [klerck.org] ?
Are you a NIGGER [mugshots.org] ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER [gay-sex-access.com] ?

If you answered "Yes" to any of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America. You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!

First, you have to obtain a copy of GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE [imdb.com] and watch it.

Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA "first post" on slashdot.org [slashdot.org] , a popular "news for trolls" website

Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on EFNet, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today!

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is EFNet, and you can connect to irc.secsup.org or irc.isprime.com as one of the EFNet servers.

If you do not have an IRC client handy, you are free to use the GNAA Java IRC client by clicking here [nero-online.org]

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.


-GNAA member 'JesuitX'
________________________________________________
| ______________________________________._a,____ |
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ |
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ |
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ |
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ |
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ |
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ |
| ____a,___jk_ GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_|
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ |
| ______-"!^____________________________________ |
` _______________________________________________'

w00t ! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538276)

w00t!

Michael Sims is a Domain Thief (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538283)

Click here for article [spectacle.org]

Michael Sims, Domain Hijacking and Moral Equivalency by Jonathan Wallace jw@bway.net [mailto]

How would you feel if your webmaster maliciously took your web-site offline, then, when you demanded its return, put up a site attacking your company at your old URL? It happened to a group I was involved in, the Censorware Project, currently at http://www.censorware.net [censorware.net] . The purpose of this essay is to put the behavior on record, and to give you some impressions and inferences about it.

The Censorware Project was originally an informal collective of six people who collaborated online to fight censorware: Seth Finkelstein [sethf.com] , Bennett Haselton [peacefire.org] , Jamie McCarthy [mccarthy.vg] , Mike Sims, Jim Tyre and myself. Several of us had never met or even spoken on the phone, yet for some time -- around two years as I recall -- we had a remarkably easy collaboration. There was no funding, no hierarchy, no titles, not even project managers. Someone would suggest a project and take the responsibility for a part of it, others would sign up for other elements, and proceeding this way we got a remarkable amount of work done, including reports on X-Stop, Cyberpatrol, Bess and other censorware products.

Even though two of us were attorneys -- Jim and myself -- we never incorporated the group or wrote a charter or any contracts among ourselves. Mike Sims was obliging enough to register the domain, just as other members paid for press releases and the other incidental expenses which came along. Mike also served as webmaster of the censorware.org site and did substantial work [sethf.com] for the group, including writing contributions to several of the reports and lead authorship of at least one. Seth was the source [sethf.com] of our decrypted censorware blacklists [sethf.com] and managed many technical tasks, but later felt he had to leave the group because of the increasing prospects of a lawsuit [chillingeffects.org] , particularly under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). After Seth left the group, the remaining five continued.

Robert Frost said that "nothing gold can stay," and the Censorware Project was no exception. Over the summer of 2000, Mike Sims' reaction to a perceived slight from Jim Tyre was to take the site down for a week. He sent us mail at the time saying something like "The Censorware Project is now closed." [sethf.com] I replied to him that, given that the group was a collective and we all had an interest in its work product, the domain, and the goodwill it had achieved, the decision was not his to make. Sims did not reply.

After Seth created a partial, text, mirror, Mike put the site back up a week later without explaining, let alone apologizing for, his actions. Given his continuing failure to answer any email from me (and I think from others) and the overall signs that Sims thought the group was exclusively his, I wrote him several emails requesting that he turn the domain over to Jamie or Bennett, as I felt we could no longer trust him to administer it. We also found out during that time that important email from people trying to contact us, including members of the press, was not being answered by Sims, nor being forwarded to other members.

I ultimately became exasperated that my name was listed as a principal on what had now become a "rogue" site I had no control over. Over about a five week period, I wrote Sims several more emails asking him to delete my name from the site if he wasn't going to transfer the domain. Again, I received no reply.

In November 2000, Sims took the Censorware Project site offline again, with a message saying "Due to demands from some of the people who contributed, in however minor a fashion, to this site, it has been taken down." Judging from some email I received from him at the time, this meant me.

Its a sad thing, both because we got some good work done and because some of the other members of the group were eager to continue and in fact have continued working, while deprived then of the Censorware Project site, name, email aliases and public recognition. Within a few months after, we relaunched the site [archive.org] , with the original content, at http://www.censorware.net [censorware.net] . We only had the content available because Seth Finkelstein had mirrored it -- the rest of us trusted Mike and therefore had not maintained an archive out of his control.

But all the hundreds or thousands of links Censorware Project had build-up over the years still pointed to the old site. In some cases, it was impossible to fix them, since they were from mailing-list archives, old web news pages, in print, or webmasters didn't want to be to be bothered with edits. And anyone who tried to get in touch with us by sending mail to the previous contact address would have their message trashed by Sims.

In 2002, amidst the publicity of a major trial against a Federal censorware law ("CIPA" [ala.org] ), Sims made further changes to the censorware.org site. He expanded it with an essay accusing various other members of the project, principally Seth, of bad behavior. Remarkably, in his chronology of events, he does not deny nor even try to explain his take-down of the domain of a busy activist group which did not at all consent to being robbed of its domain:

... A few weeks later, the last shreds flew apart in a couple of bitter emails back and forth, and the website came down. I was asked nicely by Jamie McCarthy to restore the site. Reconsidering my hasty actions, I did so.

... It was conveyed to me that Tyre and Seth were pleased that I had given in to Jamie's request and restored the site, because that meant that Seth could spider (use an automated tool to download every webpage) all the content off of the site in preparation for putting it up elsewhere. That is to say, what I thought was a sincere and honest request from Jamie was actually a sort of trojan horse - made under a dishonest pretense.

That was the last straw. At the beginning of November, the site came down, for good.

Michael has now set things up so that every pointer to former censorware.org content leads to his attacks. What this means is that hundreds or thousands of links which were put up elsewhere to Censorware Project content during our hey-day now, when followed, lead to Michael's denunciation of the group. Try the experiment -- invent a URL starting with censorware.org, such as http://censorware.org/DomainHijackedByMichaelSims/ index.html and you will get to Michael's rant.

Although we made some attempt to contact people maintaining pages that linked to us, and ask them to redirect the link to the new www.censorware.net, we could not contact all of them, and some never made the change. My own Ethical Spectacle [spectacle.org] site had scores of links to Censorware.org -- and every time I thought I had changed them all, I would find a few more.

In short, this is a colossal and continuing act of malice by our former webmaster, Michael Sims. It's not even ambiguous -- you can go and read Mike's essay at censorware.org and confirm that he admits he did it.

Astonishingly, there were no consequences [sethf.com] to Michael, as far as I know, for taking down the Censorware Project content [sethf.com] and redirecting its substantial web traffic, first to a page which said the group no longer existed, and now to his rant against its members. We had some internal discussions about suing him to get the domain back. I thought there might be some merit in it and that we might be able to prove common law collective ownership of the domain by establishing our mutual contributions of work and money to create the content which was published on the site. However, another lawyer, much more knowledgeable about these things than I am, believed that the fact that Michael had been allowed by us to register the domain in his own name would be definitive and that we would lose.

The Censorware Project had been invited to participate in a mailing list of free speech organizations known as IFEA [ifea.net] -Plan. After Michael took down Censorware.org, several of us requested that he be removed from IFEA [ifea.net] -Plan because he had so badly violated our confidence. (His current rant on the site reveals a number of confidential communications he received over the years.) The list-master declined to delete him and we got a number of "We don't want to get in the middle of this" type messages from various other participants.

I was naively astonished by these. If the ACLU [aclu.org] 's webmaster had trashed the organization's site, I think everyone would pretty well recognize he was a Bad Character and Not To Be Trusted. As much more minor players, despite the significant contributions we had made in revealing what censorware actually blocked, no-one could be bothered to take a stand for us. There was nothing to be gained.

Another thing I learned from the experience is the pretty obvious lesson that it is ultimately hard to decide whom to trust when relationships are based on email and lack the significant visual cues we usually use in making trust-related determinations. However, I had met Mike in person twice, while there are other members of the Censorware Project I have never laid eyes upon.

Also, even in the most collegial, relaxed and rewarding collaborations, its good to have a written contract -- exactly the advice I used to give law clients but that none of us thought to adopt to protect ourselves against the eventuality of a rogue member. Click here for article [spectacle.org]

HOLY FUCK LOOK AT ME! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538288)

Motherfuckin' First Post© Goodness.


Brought to you by- EAT SHIT INC>

Hopefully this fulfills the Exchange Need (3, Insightful)

rowanxmas (569908) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538291)

It seems that /. folk are constantly talking about the need for a FOSS collaboration thingy, and this seems like it should be it. So, for all you folks who are always writing in telling how "Exchange is so great...blah", it seems like this is the answer.

Re:Hopefully this fulfills the Exchange Need (5, Informative)

afidel (530433) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538321)

Nope, you still need a commercial connector to use Outlook with this. We have had the ability to do that for some time (things like the old HP Exchange alternative and the suite from Oracle, what most of us want is the equivilant of SAMBA, a free and FREE drop in replacement for Exchange that doesn't cost anything to implement so long as we don't need support.

So what (2, Insightful)

Rhinobird (151521) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538366)

They aren't trying to make a drop in replacement of Exchange. They are trying to make a functional replacement of Exchange. Also I think the German's needed something for their spiffy linux desktops to do besides look pretty.

Re:So what (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538395)

They obviously don't have a clue - just look at the name. Give me a break - that is about the most idiotic sounding name I have ever heard for a project. Given the fact that all the KDE jackasses think it's cool to name all their projects starting with a K, I can see where these fucking morons get it from, but show some creativity - PLEASE! And to name something the same as an inllness that children get is just plain stupid. I can see it now - go to a client and say "hey, you should give Kroupware a shot" and they ask "What is it? Is it contagious? Will I get sick? Are you trying to kill me? Get out!". Yeah, right. That name will never pass from my lips to anyones ears. Jackass Germans. You people are so stupid. Kan kyou kplease kome kup kwith ka knew kname???

Re:Hopefully this fulfills the Exchange Need (4, Interesting)

hdparm (575302) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538442)

But I do not want to use Outlook at all. Evolution or Mozilla will do just fine for say, everybody. Plus, talking about free/FREE - why is everybody prepared to pay big bucks to Microsoft or Oracle but not to some other company for said Outlook connector, if they really want to use Outlook? That would be heaps cheaper option.

Re:Hopefully this fulfills the Exchange Need (2, Interesting)

afidel (530433) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538591)

Mozilla's calandering SUCKS balls. Sorry but it does. I've been using it since it first got released and it isn't even stable or usefull enough for a single person yet, let alone as the frontend to a groupware package. Evolution would be nice IF it ran on windows, but it doesn't, and unfortunatly I have to run windows at my employer on at least one of my desktops because of various proprietary apps that don't run under WINE. Also it's not that we won't pay big bucks, we will, but there are tons of instances where I could save a company money and hassle by replacing Exchange with something less crash prone and which works with their current tools. Most of the time if you are going to pay for a new set of liscenses anyways it makes sense to go with a commercial package all they way because it isn't much more expensive (like say Oracle's product or the one that HP used to have). I know that the MAPI protocol can't be any more difficult than the SMB protocol so I guess I'm just hoping that one or more people stand up and start an open source project akin to SAMBA but to replace Exchange rather than windows file and print sharing.

Re:Hopefully this fulfills the Exchange Need (3, Insightful)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538486)

Pardon me French, but here goes:

Outlook is a shithole of bugs, incompatibilities, dangerous security flaws and second rate patches which obfuscate its vulnerabilities instead of repair them.

The quicker Evolution lives up to its name, and departs [ximian.com] from an Outlook-style UI model, the better. There are real performance issues they need to work on as well. Big IMAP stores are slow.

Anybody really interested in moving AWAY from outlook/exchange should dig Open Groupware [opengroupware.org] , forked from a stable commercial implementation that uses Cyrus, Postgres and OpenLDAP. They even have a ready-to-run Knoppix CD-ROM image, for evaluation testing:
"The OGo Knoppix is the fastest way to get a running OGo demo, as it requires no installation - just boot from it and you get a working system, including a Cyrus IMAP4 server."

interesting exchange article (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538386)

there's an interesting article on exchange from the open source perspective over at tubgirl tech archive [tubgirl.com]

Looks like another near miss... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538394)

As much as I want this to be a viable Exchange replacement, it looks like another near miss to me. A quick review of the screenshots shows a distince seperation between client and server folders. Saddly, this alone would torpedo implementing this as a solution where I work. The cost of re-training the users would exceed the cost of Exchange client licenses.

Re:Looks like another near miss... (2, Insightful)

hdparm (575302) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538523)

I don't quite share your views. Having Exchange mailboxes limited in size, as is the case in a company where I work, forces you to use Personal Folders locally - people are just too lazy to save file attachments where they normally should be saved and sometimes keep all that stuff in their mailbox even if they saved attachments elsewhere. The most frequent excuse is that they 'need history of what was sent and when' but they never really look at that shit again. So, it's exactly like on that screenshot.

Re:Looks like another near miss... (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538602)

The most frequent excuse is that they 'need history of what was sent and when' but they never really look at that shit again.

God damn, you really fuckin do not have a clue. Email is the fucking lifeforce of modern business -- there isn't a single mothufucking application that's more important at all -- it's absolutely goddamn essential that users have a record of their business communication.

If that causes you lameassed virginal losers in the computer janitor dungeon to spend an extra 1c/MB on disk, go do it, you fucking shitass. You'll wonder when your job is outsourced to India, I bet.

What? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538293)

KrautWare?

My country tis of thee
Sweet land of Germany
Of thee I sing
When I sing of sauerkraut
It makes my ears stick out
Higher than any mountain top
My ears stick out

I Konkur - how exactly is Kroupware pronounced (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538315)

anyway? When I see the word "kroup" I can't help but imagine someone saying, "Mandy just contracted a case of kroups" or "Gee, get your kroup off my side of the table."

Riddle me this, G.N.A.A.? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538294)

How many Penis can a Penis Bird suck, if a Penis Bird could suck Penis?

Re:Riddle me this, G.N.A.A.? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538350)

As much Penis as a Penis Bird could suck, if a Penis Bird could suck Penis.

:D

INCORRECT! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538418)

Guess again, Fuckstick!

Re:Riddle me this, G.N.A.A.? (0, Flamebait)

ratfynk (456467) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538451)

Just for your info this is a ./ about KDE will you Ksuckers go somewhere where someone kares...in short kut it out, kwit posting about kock roosters.

Has anybody tried it yet? (5, Interesting)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538303)

How well does it do compared to EX-change?

IOW: is it a "Komplete" software product, or the usual 90% GNU solution?

Does anybody care to write a compairison feature and integration wise?

Re:Has anybody tried it yet? (1)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538371)

You can send and recieve meeting and task requests

The spell checker is missing anyway

Re:Has anybody tried it yet? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538390)

Yeah Yeah. You got the point, so shut the fuck up.
CC

Re:Has anybody tried it yet? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538538)

Hardy har har!!

But where is the period at the end of your pretentious cock-in-the-ass sentence, good sir?

Re:Has anybody tried it yet? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538490)

Hello Horsey!!

Kolab and Kontact, I'm confused. (5, Interesting)

$calar (590356) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538316)

OK, so the KDE project started Kontact, which merges KMail, KOrganizer, KNotes, and KAddressBook. I was just at the Kontact web site and it doesn't mention Kolab. My thought was that Kroupware was supposed to merge at some point with Kontact, is this true? But Kolab screenshots look different than Kontact's. Is this going into KDE?

http://kolab.kde.org/

http://kontact.kde.org/

In other words, is Kontact dead?

Re:Kolab and Kontact, I'm confused. (1, Offtopic)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538354)

There's a lot of crufty stuff in the KDE app-base. There's the KDE media player, NOATUN (Not-run , that's what I always think) some ARTS stuff for sound server (like esd, and others couldnt have fit here) and other basic bitmap apps.

They could have made Gimp a KDE program and forget about all other KDE gfx programs. It already can read a crapload of gfx types, so it's just a gtk=>kde3 port away.

Noatun is a joke. I mean, a SERIOUS JOKE. The few things I'm able to run in it (like say, standard MPEG1 streams) either lags to hell, or promptly crashes. I usually go and install XINE, OGLE, and Mplayer for all my video viewing needs.

And about ARTS, other than network transparency (which is depreciated with the new SMB-UNIX extensions which allow you to mount /dev nodes over networks) it's yet another thing that eats up cpu time and does little. Yeah, it provides an archetchure but who wants to use it? It ties your app to kde only. Yuk.

The PIM group of apps seem pretty nice, but dont flow together well. Why did they create their own set of office "things" that dont work with anything else (yeah, I know writing a module is trivial). Why not plug in OO instead? It'd be easier that way.

Yeah, Kruft bothers me, but at least it works (kde3 doesnt crash as much as windows....). Still, kde3 goes down sometimes with a sig 11.

Re:Kolab and Kontact, I'm confused. (5, Informative)

falonaj (615782) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538391)

OK, so the KDE project started Kontact, which merges KMail, KOrganizer, KNotes, and KAddressBook.

That's right. Kontact is currently in development, and will be released as part of KDE 3.2. Kontact is the way official KDE development has chosen.

In other words, is Kontact dead?

No, not at all. Kontact will merge all Kolab functionality that has been developed by the kroupware project.

Until the KDE project has released Kontact, you can use the KMail-based Kolab client offered by the kroupware project.

The kroupware project is sponsored by the German gouvernment. Because of the requirements of the German gouvernment offices, they chose to release a KMail-based Kolab first rather than waiting for Kontact to be finished.

Re:Kolab and Kontact, I'm confused. (1)

autopr0n (534291) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538433)

OK, so the KDE project started Kontact, which merges KMail, KOrganizer, KNotes, and KAddressBook. I was just at the Kontact web site and it doesn't mention Kolab. My thought was that Kroupware was supposed to merge at some point with Kontact, is this true? But Kolab screenshots look different than Kontact's. Is this going into KDE?

Koh kmy kod!

Enough with the goddam 'K' names (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538317)

Stop the insanity! 'Kroupware' sounds like a brand of German kitchen-utensils or something.

Re:Enough with the goddam 'K' names (0, Troll)

gtada (191158) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538370)

I think it sounds too much like "Crapware". ;)

Re:Enough with the goddam 'K' names (2, Funny)

core plexus (599119) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538415)

I suffered from a disease referred to as "the croup" when I was a kid.

Guess what the first thing I thought of when I read this? A vaporizor, hacking (the bad kind), and phelgm.

-cp-

Re:Enough with the goddam 'K' names (1)

Jethro (14165) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538611)

I had the same disease, and throught the same thing.

by the way, how old were you when it finally went away?

Re:Enough with the goddam 'K' names (1)

munter (619803) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538586)

No no.

Kroupware is what young babies are clothed in when they have a hacking cough.

Re:Enough with the goddam 'K' names (1)

MoOsEb0y (2177) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538598)

well that makes sense considering it's being sponsored by the German government

Germans clearly rock. (0)

inertialFrame (259221) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538323)

But it would be cool to have a good, free Exchange client. I've tried Ximian Connector, but Evolution often crashes for me with Connector installed. I've tried the WebDAV/Exchange/IMAP thingie in Korganizer, but it never has imported schedule items properly for me.

I'm not complaining, just wishing.

best group since SCORPIANS ?? (0)

zymano (581466) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538406)

didn't know that.

K's not always funny. (5, Funny)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538325)

I thought Killustrator was funny, but Kroupware? Ugh. Very krappy.

Re:K's not always funny. (2, Funny)

sulli (195030) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538328)

It'a better if you take some Kough syrup.

Yes, make it stop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538333)

Possibly the single worst project name ever conceived. Who can take a name like that seriously? <shudder>

Re:Yes, make it stop (1)

Dave2 Wickham (600202) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538348)

What about "kdontchangethehostname" - OK, so it's not a project, but still...

Re:Yes, make it stop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538361)

That's not that bad as a name that suggests a disease [kidshealth.org] that makes little kids sound like barking seals.

Re:K's not always funny. (1)

dspeyer (531333) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538367)

I think it sounds less lame in German. It is a largely German project, after all (though it clearly runs fine in English). At least, I hope it sounds less lame in German -- it can hardly sound more!

Re:K's not always funny. (1)

sould (301844) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538434)

K's are always [wikipedia.org] funny


The announcement really should have been:


Kolab's
Kroupware
Komplete

Re:K's not always funny. (1)

the idoru (125059) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538471)

obligatory simpson's quote:

Krusty: Have you gone completely ferkakta? Hey! I got my comedy "k's" back. King Kong, cold-cock, Kato Kaelin.

Only project name! (2, Informative)

RPoet (20693) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538478)

"Kroupware" was only a working title for the project. The completed product is called Kolab. I don't know why Slashdot went with Kroupware in the title (I think someone mentioned "kroup" is similary to the Dutch word for throwing up).

This is a big step forward. (5, Insightful)

James A. A. Joyce (681634) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538326)

Now we have a proper, KDE-enhanced groupware solution for all sizes of organisations. Unfortunately, even if it is better than Exchange, those organisations are still going to stick with Exchange just because it's what they're familiar with. Hopefully we can try and get this stuff supported in the workplace, and if we contribute code and offer support to the companies we work for if they use this, we can get more widespread adoption.

Exchange answers... (4, Informative)

exhilaration (587191) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538330)

A little karma whoring never hurt anyone... :)

From the FAQ [kroupware.org] :
How can I make Outlook talk to the Kolab Server?
You need a Plug-in called InsightConnector from http://bynari.com [bynari.net] . This is proprietary software and you need to aquire a license. Demo versions are available. A second company, konsec.com, announced to make a similiar plug-in offering in Q3 2003.

Later on it states:
Is there no Free Software Outlook plugin? Will you create one?
We are not aware of an existing Free Software plug-in for Outlook. Within the Kroupware project we have not been contracted to create such a plug-in. "Kervin L. Pierre" announced to work on it and started sourceforge.net/projects/otlkcon [sourceforge.net] .

otlkcon status (5, Informative)

kervin (64171) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538466)

http://otlkcon.sf.net [sf.net] is mine.

I've been working on it from about Nov'02, and was pretty much trying to keep things on the down-low until I had a proof-of-concept to show. You see, ironically, I did this to not have yet-another-vapor-project out there :)

The a simple connector plugin would not have taken this long. But I've decided to take a solid stab at solving the root problem, that is, an extendable MAPI message service, and the tools needed to program for/with this set of MAPI providers.

First part of the Message service, is the message store. That's the DLL in MAPI responsible for actually saving your mail to the filesystem, amongst other things. The second most important service provider, the transport service provider, is responsible for sending the mail off, basically.

I've been focusing on a sub-project at http://sapimapi.sf.net [sf.net] . Don't let the stats put you off, I've been putting a decent amount of hours on this one ( sf.net CVS stats are broken right now ). This testing utility has a built in scripting language, and common MAPI routines, to make it easy to configure the behavior of MAPI clients for testing the service providers. I also intend to fit in TNEF routines and info on much of the undocumented MAPI properties I've collected from/at various places. The testing utilitly is early, early alpha; I have the language lexer/parser done, and I'm working on the built in MAPI library calls. Extended MAPI from C# is a bitch. Funny they forget to mention stuff like that in the brochure.

Open source connector will get done soon. I've heard of at least one other group working on the problem. I suspect it's only a matter of time till one of the unprofitable companies, selling a MAPI connector, releases it as open source. There are a lot of them.

The important thing, I believe, is that we get a complete extendable toolkit, that would spark the continued development of extensions. Eg. address book, chat, voicemail, etc.

Re:otlkcon status (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538546)

+5, very nice.

Keep up the good work and all the best.

Looks great! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538332)

Great looking interface...gonna have to give it a try.

What's with the name? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538334)

Kroupware? There is an Open Source product whose that is going head to head against major proprietary mail server packages, and someone actually thought to call it 'Kroupware'?

Is that like 'HackingCoughWare' or, perhaps, the more subtle 'ScreamingInfantWare'? Ok, perhaps this is a troll, but I've historically had a hard enough time selling open source stuff into various enterprises. ("MySQL? Aww, what a cute name. Now go get us something that sounds professional." I've heard that. Literally. Twice.) I realize we're all smart enough to know better.

Selling a product is as much (if not more) selling an image than it is selling features, reliability, etc. At least for the PHBs I've had to sell to in the past. Trying to bring a mission critical piece of software in that's named after an anoying childhood malady will, before anything else, elicit a bunch of laughs from the powers that be, and then there's that much more of a hole to dig out of.

Then Just Rename It...Duh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538401)

Open Source .... take the source ...
name it something else ...
profit

Apt name for an Exchange replacement (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538413)

You clearly misunderstand the true purpose of Exchange, which is to transmit viruses at blinding speeds. For a full-featured replacement, you can't get a more marketable name than "kroupware".....

Re:What's with the name? (-1, Troll)

autopr0n (534291) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538462)

("MySQL? Aww, what a cute name. Now go get us something that sounds professional." I've heard that. Literally. Twice.

Of course, they were right. MySQL isn't 'professional' It's great for hobbyist websites, but that's about it.

Re:What's with the name? (0, Flamebait)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538501)

If they think the name "MySQL" sounds unprofessional, then why do they think MS Windows is professional when it's loaded with things like "My Documents", "My Pictures", "My Computer", "My Network Places", etc. ad nauseum? Or worse yet, that stupid Clippy? And just the name "Windows" shows a complete and utter lack of imagination. If any software product is a poster-child for unprofessional, it has to be Windows.

Re:What's with the name? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538594)

You are of course correct, which is why the sell for Windows has always been retail, from the ground up.

That's great when you have end user software that end users can force MIS dorkuses to buy. However it doesn't work so well for server software, where you want somethings studly like "Oracle", "WebSphere" or "Exchange" that appeals directly to the pencilnecks in the IT purchasing department.

Re:What's with the name? (2, Interesting)

deander2 (26173) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538527)

this is very true. i've worked for and gotten mass adoption of bugzilla where i work, but i still have to fight that image problem of it being called "bugzilla".

everyone admits it works great...but "IBM/Rational ClearQuest(tm)" sounds so much more professional.

argh.

Re:What's with the name? (1)

Malcontent (40834) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538528)

"MySQL? Aww, what a cute name. Now go get us something that sounds professional." I've heard that. Literally. Twice."

Holy shit. You'd think you could anything to somebody that dumb.

Come to think about this dunce probably drives a car whose name is es450 or 750i or something like that. Just tell him it's database ab800. Thell him it's much better then the 500 series because it's faster and gets better gas milage. If he starts asking questions just tell him you have to go put the token back into the token ring network and excuse yourself.

Re:What's with the name?-The "K" server. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538533)

Well lets be kute; how about:

The server.

Say what?

The server.

So what does it serve?

K's

K's?

Yes K's.

What kind of K's?

Krunchy K's.

Krunchy K's?

Krunchy Krispy Krackly K's

On a Kaiser bun.

OK now that's just Krazy.

Not at all. It's much better than anyone elses Krap, and it will not Krash.

Uh Huh. You stay there while I kall someone to kome and karry your krazy ass out of my kondo. Kapish?

Re:What's with the name? (1)

jpkunst (612360) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538564)

Agreed on the unfortunate tendency to use cute and/or silly names for Open Source products. Another example: there is a framework for persistent PHP objects under development which is called PHP Bananas [sebastian-bergmann.de] (warning: PDF link; Google HTML version [216.239.39.104] here).

Hanging on to these silly 'geek inside joke' code names is not helping adoptation of OSS.

JP

O"K" (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538335)

The project isn't just O"K", it's GREAT!

Seriously though, integrating the K elements is great. However, I noticed that Korganizer doesn't like a HUGE file (takes forever to load). Also, Kmail's LDAP feature is not integrated with the mail client (it's part of the address book and requires the user to start the address book instead of integrating LDAP with Kmail (as implemented in Mozilla)).

Anyone know if this project fixes those problems?

To bad Evolution probably wont support it (5, Informative)

Plix (204304) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538336)

According to the FAQ (and from ximian.com) it appears as if Evolution doesn't support Kroupware and wont be supporting it anytime soon (see this [ximian.com] post to the evolution mailing list). This is a real shame considering that outside of the KDE camp most people aren't using K-Mail in favor of Gnome clients like Evolution and Balsa.

Re:To bad Evolution probably wont support it (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538392)

They store contact information in a special folder with one contact per email ? Seems a perfectly valid reason not to interact with it to me. That's gayer than Goering on surprise night inspection of the barracks.

Re:To bad Evolution probably wont support it (4, Informative)

Wesley Felter (138342) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538414)

If both Kroupware and Evolution supported standards, then they wouldn't need any extra support to work together. Unfortunately, Kroupware is taking a weird approach of accessing contacts and calendar entries using IMAP instead of LDAP and CAP. Evolution doesn't support CAP either.

Re:To bad Evolution probably wont support it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538615)

So, does anyone support CAP? Or iCal or whatever it's called? Anyone? Hello?

Those standards are apparently completely dead on arrival.

I don't see the problem (1)

Kunta Kinte (323399) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538494)

The special 'contact' folder approach is very common. It is what outlook uses, or at least use to use.

Evolution could have a simple 'contact-folder-is-special' switch, or a 'kroupware-support' switch to toggle behavior.

Who came up with that name? (0, Redundant)

Forkenhoppen (16574) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538341)

"Kroupware"?!!? As someone who's had a few younger brothers and sisters who've had the croup as babies.. that's a pretty lame name. It makes me think of text-to-speech software being played too loudly on a pair of cheap speakers.

It's cute and all... (4, Interesting)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538358)

... but all those apps that begin with K become a real nuisance to find on KDE's version of the start-menu when you're a Linux newb such as myself.

Re:It's cute and all... (2, Informative)

PhlegmMaster (596165) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538496)

It's also bad if you use a keyboard alot - You've got Konquerer, Kmail and now Kroupware. You want to get to Kroupware, you have to hit 'K' THREE TIMES!

Actually........ (0, Offtopic)

eclectro (227083) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538408)



Kolab is the sister planet to Kolob [salamandersociety.org] . Fellow Kolabians, let's extend a warm handshake of welcome to our brethren the Kolobians.

Maybe its not "group" with a "k"... (1, Redundant)

fmita (517041) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538411)

Croup - noun - a spasmodic laryngitis especially of infants marked by episodes of difficult breathing and hoarse metallic cough

again not quite there (4, Insightful)

scottking (674292) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538419)

once again the open source community releases an exchange killer, and once again it is missing the most important component...

native integration with outlook.

i said this before in another post, but i am going to say it again. businesses aren't ready for desktop linux, which means server side solutions (no matter how brilliant) MUST work with the desktop apps that employees use. no one wants to relearn their e-mail client; and yes i am aware that evolution is almost identical to outlook at the interface level. but the truth of it is, the perception of any new desktop software is "now i have to learn everything all over again". it's the illusion of difficulty, so we as developers (and by we i mean you :) ) should make it our primary goal to lessen the difficulty of the intgration with newer, oss technology where ever we can

Re:again not quite there (1)

TheCanucklehead (685802) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538480)

Could not agree more. That is the clientelle - to not code for them only guarantees failure.

Re:again not quite there (4, Insightful)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538516)

If you want an Outlook connector, go write one yourself.

This product was not written by some vague "open source community" at large. It was written by two consulting companies who were contracted by the German government to provide a very specific solution using open-source components, and that's exactly what they did. The German government will not be using Outlook on their client machines, so they sure as hell are not going to fund development of anything to do this. If it's so important to you or others, you're free to write it yourself or fund development with your own money. Or you can buy an existing solution from Bynari for a lot less than an Exchange system.

Re:again not quite there (1)

1000101 (584896) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538536)

You may be right, but they sure as hell make it seem like it's an Outlook/Exchange killer for the masses.

Fahrvegnugen ......Kroupware. Stop the madness!!!! (-1, Troll)

zymano (581466) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538420)

Germans . Change the name now!

Call it NiggerWare.

Re:Fahrvegnugen ......Kroupware. Stop the madness! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538499)

You must be representing the GNAA. I think they should form a KNAA as an alternative of GNAA.

Khat? (2, Funny)

Feztaa (633745) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538421)

Kon't Kou Kust Kate Kt Khen Kll Khe Ktupid Kords Ktart Kith K?

KENOUGH KWITH KHE KKAY KNAMING! (-1, Redundant)

autopr0n (534291) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538430)

Seriously, what is the deal with starting every KDE based app, and lots that aren't with a K? I mean, first of all what does a groupware app have to do with KDE? And secondly, it's just an idiotic name!

HEY DUMBASS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538452)

The letter K is no sillier than the infamous red-hat or my personal hero, Geeko (SuSE). Mandrake, Debian, and every other project in the OS that got off the ground and into code has a mascot. Its half the fun and joy of this OS. Heck, is K any sillier than E?

Re:KENOUGH KWITH KHE KKAY KNAMING! (1)

ocelotbob (173602) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538497)

STFU already. You made the same goddamn point several times on this [slashdot.org] fucking [slashdot.org] thread. [slashdot.org] Give it a rest. Are you critical of apple's use of i-everything, or of MS's overuse of -XP? Or are you just bitching for the sake of bitching?

Re:KENOUGH KWITH KHE KKAY KNAMING! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538617)

You must be new.. autopr0n posts on tons of forums for no real reason.. slashdot, fark, etc.. it's so he can spam his site.. good thing its a porn site, and a good one, else i might actually get mad =)

Re:KENOUGH KWITH KHE KKAY KNAMING! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538555)

Not more stupid than the letter 'G'

Re:KENOUGH KWITH KHE KKAY KNAMING! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538567)

Let me try to be subtle, Mr. autopr0n, at some point, you need to decide whether you want to enter "Scott Lockwood" territory or not.

If so, you will suffer like-consequences.

Bug report #1 on final version: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538436)

Check this shot out. [kroupware.org]

I pose a thread to my neighbors when I keep the window shades open. heh heh.

Great... (1)

TheCanucklehead (685802) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538468)

An Exchange tie-in that functions like all the rest - requiring the Byntari Connector which provides limited service at best.

Achtung, der namentrollz... (5, Funny)

heironymouscoward (683461) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538512)

Ja, das namen "Kroupware" ist untercompatible mit der "marketing" und "salez". Ve haf zehr lang geflamed unt gechat mit keine success. in Deutsch, "kroup" en "group" ist blinkindentic.
Ja, Slashdot namentrollz, genough mit dem "kind und kroup" joken. Ve asken zie einen gutten namen te finden. We zen unterserious. Das winner mit deze bestes namen ist kandidate fur ein Freiexemplar gewinnen. Achtung, frei als in "freies Bier"! Ja, ja. Ist Kool, nein?

Namecalling (5, Insightful)

skurken (58262) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538514)

It's interesting to find that most comments thus far has been about the name of the app. Is there really no more to say or are people just looking for cheap Funny-karma?

I'll chip in for the ante then:
This seems to be an intreresting product for hybrid companies (like I've worked with) where the engineering part is using Linux and the manager part is using Windows/Outlook. This way there is a serious player for interconnecting the two of them that (unlike Evolution) doesn't rely on an Exchange server. If now Evolution just could start working with this as well and we'll have real interconnectivity. Good.

Support CALSCH, CAP, and James (5, Interesting)

kervin (64171) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538534)

Kroupware and the others are nice. But what we really need is for CALSCH http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/calsch-charter.h tml [ietf.org] to finish with CAP http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-cal sch-cap-10.txt [ietf.org] . As you can see CAP is on it's tenth public revision.

We need a standard that specifies the transport of the calendar protocol, badly. We need CAP finished.

The special folder in IMAP scheme will work. But is a little on the hackish side, and incompartibility between servers is a serious problem, even with standard formats, like iCal based schemes.

Next we need a cross platform messaging server. Although, it does not support IMAP as yet, Apache James is my favorite, at http://james.apache.org [apache.org] . First of all it has a strong group endorsing it, the Apache group. That's going to be important for selling this thing to risk-adverse corporate types. Second, it's Java, so I trust it a little more in the buffer-overflow department. Also it would probably integrate nicely in current J2EE setups. I've heard people are doing this.

James needs IMAP and CAP support. And then we will have a decent shot at the less entrenched sector of the exchanges market.

Support CALSCH, CAP, and James-Suspenders. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538569)

"Kroupware and the others are nice. But what we really need is for CALSCH [ietf.org] to finish with CAP [ietf.org] . As you can see CAP is on it's tenth public revision."

What I see is you're way behind. February 2003 and here we are four month's later. Hopefully this "standard" is XML based.

"James needs IMAP and CAP support. And then we will have a decent shot at the less entrenched sector of the exchanges market."

I'm certain there's java code floating around on the net, that can be integrated to give IMAP. CAP is a maybe, I don't know enough about it, but it shouldn't be an onerous burdon to put this in as well. And is there really any such thing as a "less entrenched" exchange market?

KOMMANDER TACO KOULDNT KUM IN KATE FENTS KSNATCH (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538543)

Yeah but (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6538590)

who'd want to? You don't know what sort of niggers have jismed in that sewer hole. Although she's only one of how many women in north america?

Spelling mistakes as usual (2, Funny)

arvindn (542080) | more than 11 years ago | (#6538603)

Did anyone else notice that the /. story blurb is full of spelling mistakes? Anyway, here's the fixed version:
"The three kompanies behind the Kroupware Project (Erfrakon, Intevation and Klarälvdalens Datakonsult) announced its successful kompletion today. This new groupware approach using only Free Software is now available in stable versions under the Kolab brand name. Kommercial support on an individual basis is already offered with further support options to kome."
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