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Galeon Developers Interview

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the at-least-it-isn't-named-firebird dept.

Mozilla 204

Nachtjäger writes "The Galeon website has an interview with the developers, describing overall project health, current problems, and future direction. There's also a place to ask your own questions for future interviews."

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204 comments

They've had a lot of trouble. (5, Informative)

James A. A. Joyce (681634) | more than 10 years ago | (#6540973)

People have been abandoning the project for imaginary problems or unimportant problems, all of which stem from, allegedly, "libbonobogui", which appears to be a graphical API for GNOME. This has been the cause of lots of kludges in versions 1.2 and 1.3 and they look forward to ceasing to use it. They've also been hit hard by being dropped by both Red Hat and Slackware! Fortunately, they're getting back on their feet now since some people have stuck with Galeon (which is a pretty fine browser, if not the prettiest) and so it's been gradually improving. I believe a new version was released just a few hours/days ago.

Go download it! Show your support!

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541005)

They've been hit badly because the developer of Epiphany is a *major* ass kisser of Havoc Pennington (Red Hat) -- it's hugely embrassing really, watching the brownnoser politics at work. The Epiphany browser is dogshit... literally... it's is unusable for anything real like browsing, and yet Pennington feels the need to put it as a default in RedHat because the developer backs him up on his extremist "no features" jihad.

Gnome is rapidly becoming a major clusterfuck these days. Which is a shame, because the only other real option is selling yourself to SCO (aka... Trolltech's owner), and subjecting yourself to the full GPL just to write desktop apps, or paying SCO $3000 for every developer.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (3, Interesting)

owenb (91248) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541034)

Gnome is rapidly becoming a major clusterfuck these days. Which is a shame, because the only other real option is selling yourself to SCO (aka... Trolltech's owner), and subjecting yourself to the full GPL just to write desktop apps, or paying SCO $3000 for every developer.

Enough with this FUD. SCO own less than 2% of Trolltech. Trolltech put out an extremely high quality GPL'd product, and you complain? Write a better one, fix the problems in Gnome, or shut up.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (1)

rmohr02 (208447) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541188)

Qt isn't GPL'd for Windows.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (2, Insightful)

owenb (91248) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541380)

Well buy a licence then. Or port the Unix GPL'd version. Or start from scratch. Or give up on that lame platform and develop for Unix. But stop moaning.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (1)

Psiren (6145) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541654)

Big deal. The trolltech guys are selling a product. The fact that they are selling it to Windows developers whilst freely giving it away to *nix users doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (1)

hendridm (302246) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541510)

I really like KDE, but I hate the fact that they're associate with SCO. I don't want to support anything that could potentially help SCO, even that which is insignificant. Alas, I continued to use KDE in conflict because I don't care for Gnome. :/

I hope IBM wins.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541035)

Gnome is rapidly becoming a major clusterfuck these days. Which is a shame, because the only other real option is selling yourself to SCO (aka... Trolltech's owner), and subjecting yourself to the full GPL just to write desktop apps, or paying SCO $3000 for every developer.

So, contribute to a sane, working, API [gnustep.org]

To be honest... (1, Interesting)

James A. A. Joyce (681634) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541090)

...I hope RedHat takes something like Firebird for its browser. It's featureful and it wouldn't be difficult to whack an even simpler configuration interface on it. Plus, being descended from Mozilla, it would be immune to all of the GNOME/KDE infighting that's going on. It's really a shame that there's so much politics going on among all of the OSS organisations-cum-factions. That's why I prefer Mozilla based browsers; their developers don't get embroiled in "Konq sux! Galeon rulez!" flamewars. GNOME and KDE people who say that they're neutral soon show which side they're neutral on!

Re:To be honest... (1)

juhaz (110830) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541168)

Um. Galeon and Epiphany are Mozilla based browsers just as much as Firebird, in case you haven't noticed. They're just wrapped in native toolkit to fit in with themes etc.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (2, Interesting)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541102)

What a load of rubbish. It's the default in Red Hat Rawhide because it's the default in the next version of Gnome, that was not a decision red hat made.

As for the reasons why it is the default in Gnome, that might have something to do with the fact that MPG is co-operative and convinced the gnome release team he was aligned with their goals, as opposed to the Galeon team, who did not.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (2, Interesting)

juhaz (110830) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541158)

Since when RedHat has any obligation to follow Gnome defaults when deciding what software goes into THEIR distribution?

It's damn certainly RH's choice, and I'm going to be DAMN pissed if Galeon will be missing from RH X or whatever it's going to be called.

And what comes to Gnome release teams "goal" these days it seems to be to target people with iq10, fine, they may find most potential users there, but at the same time that totally alienates more tech-knowledgeable people, how do they think they're going to get any more developers if those said developers can't even use their own software because it's too damn braindead?

Most people that write software for free do so primarily because they wish to use it themselves, not because they wish to make world better place to live.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (2, Insightful)

JanneM (7445) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541205)

The Galeon developers basically do not wish to follow the Gnome HIG. This is certainly fine - and Galeon is a good browser - but I'd say it's pretty reasonable that an application that is so central to a desktop should also follow the common guidelines set up for the core apps.

And as usual, there is absolutely nothing stopping the knowledgeable user from simply running whatever apps they want on their desktop. As for Redhat, they have switched to a more open process, where outside people have a lot more say in what should go in - make yourself heard!

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541215)

Where does the HIG say: Thou shalt not include any useful features? That's the only reason why galeon should be excluded... simply because Havoc throws his weight around.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (5, Interesting)

ttk (161270) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541280)

The Galeon developers basically do not wish to follow the Gnome HIG. This is certainly fine - and Galeon is a good browser - but I'd say it's pretty reasonable that an application that is so central to a desktop should also follow the common guidelines set up for the core apps.

This is simply not true. We are trying to follow the HIG as much as we can, but when it comes to a choice between blindly following the HIG or a feature we feel is essential, we'll probably always be choosing the feature.

It's Human Interface Guidelines, we are still allowed to think for ourselves.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541117)

> Which is a shame, because the only other real option is selling yourself to SCO (aka... Trolltech's owner),

What the crock is this horse shit? The SCO group owns 1.6% of TrollTech.

Teach yourself some motherfucking economics you fucking jew.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541148)

Which is it asswipe. One person eariler claimed it was "only" 6%, now someone says 2%, and finally you say 1.6%. My guess it's closer to 25%

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541311)

It time to boycott every company in which the Canopy Group has more than $10,000. Where can I get this information ?

1.6% (1)

hendridm (302246) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541529)

Yeah, cuz it's really hard to look it up [trolltech.com] :

SCO Group - 1.6%

> My guess it's closer to 25%

Where did you pull that arbitrary number from? Me thinks you are spreading FUD.

Re:1.6% (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541552)

Ummm... are you aware that the Canopy Group is the owner of SCO... so even that page says 5.7%. They list them separately so that assholes like you can "spin" it.

Scream all you like, the people who took money from Microsoft to throw shit around te Linux world and kill it are the same people who 0wn Trolltech, and by extension control access to the KDE desktop (the Qt license), and couldn't give a shit about the GPL.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (5, Interesting)

Xoro (201854) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541151)

Couldn't agree more about HP's destructive anti-feature craze. It's even hurt Galeon. Where did "Save Session" go? Where did "File Bookmark" go? I use Gnome because I find KDE too circus (cirKus?) -like, but man, they've got to leave *some* features in.

Some other silliness:

  • No float on top feature to Metacity? Too complicated?
  • Ugly list of useless "put on workspace" choices (also Metacity) because nested listing is "unintuitive"?
  • New GTK file-save box -- much-needed upgrade but no way to access .(dot)files? Sure, it's much cleaner when they're hidden, but it meant I had to type in a filename five levels deep just to point my program to it.
  • And you said it about Epiphany. I've seen more features on a kiosk.

I hope the galeon people take getting dropped as a liberation rather than a punishment. Let them get back to making a great browser rather than trying to conform to someone's warped interpretation of monkey-computer interface guidelines.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (1)

Somnus (46089) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541440)

I used to use GNOME, then switched to Fluxbox, then back to GNOME (v.2, with Epiphany). I think the HIG decisions make it clean (like Fluxbox and co.) but featureful like KDE (which, I agree, is way too cartoon-like).

I don't understand all the whining about Epiphany -- it'll save the session if it crashes, and the session saving on GNOME exit will work when it's stable. I use Epiphany for all my web browsing, including "mission-critical" stuff like paying my bills.

Re: They've had a lot of trouble. (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541543)


> his extremist "no features" jihad

This is about to drive me away from GNOME, which I've used since pre-1.0 days (0.4, IIRC).

Too bad I don't have time to fork a Havoc-free version for power users; I keep hoping someone else will.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541257)

That's libbonoboui.

I use Galeon 1.2.5 on Debian 2.2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541564)

A Day in the Life of a Galeon/Debian User

It's the nearest thing to Phoenix (Mozilla-Firebird) that I could get to run on Debian 2.2. I'm using it now, and it's doing a good job getting the websites rendered correctly and all. Highly recommend it. For those on Debian, just have your internet connection going, then:

# apt-get install galeon

All of the mozilla stuff is needed, so I received about 40 mb of files from apt-get to get Galeon up and running. I had it running on an old IBM PS/1 with 32 MB 30-pin ram, 25 mhz bus, and an ISA Trident TVGA 8900D 1MB graphics card, all on a 1 GB HDD. It did work with Debian 2.2 and WvDial on that old box.

(using FVWM2)

Once done, I moved the HDD to slave position on a faster machine, and wound up having to cobble together an XF86Config from the Mandrake 8 partition (mouse section on down to the end) to get X running after switching machines.
Who ever invented cut and paste anyway? He gets a gold star.
My Debian XF86Setup returned a "segmentation fault", couldn't use that, and there's no Xconfigurator to use either.
Used tomsrtbt 1.7.361 linux (on a floppy) to get the /etc/fstab pointed at hdb, since I did move the drive around.
Anyway, Galeon is fun to have and surf with on this setup. I'd like to use Opera 6.12, too, but have trouble getting rpm version to work, even with --nodepts, apparently somethings broken with my Debian RPM setup. I'm gonna try the .deb version and keep my fingers crossed.

Re:They've had a lot of trouble. (1)

Mordibity (16804) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541588)

Can anyone elaborate on what bonobogui is, esp vs the EggToolBar? (And why it sucks, how long it's sucked, etc.?) thx.

Galeon - use it! (2, Informative)

kwenda (644349) | more than 10 years ago | (#6540975)

This used to be the default in the Slackware distro of X/KDE. Now they've switched to Konqueror... Galeon works better though, I recommend it.

Re:Galeon - use it! (1)

Deusy (455433) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541672)

I second this, Galeon is an excellent browser.

It also has something innovative I've yet to find in another browser: the homepage - 'myprofile:' - which is basically a html version of your bookmarks. It's ingenius!

You have all your bookmarks well laid out and all visible at once. Since it's your home page, you just pop up a new tab and then you can find and load your intended bookmarks without the fuss of navigating through a menu.

If only all areas of the OSS world were endowed with such excellent choices - there's many very decent browsers out there.

Uh (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6540978)

What is this, and why should I care?

The gecko family of browsers... (4, Funny)

SharpFang (651121) | more than 10 years ago | (#6540981)

...puts us in the new age of environmental consciousness.
Not only you can reuse the same parts of code on different platforms, but the Mozilla mailer is the first one to have separate folders for trash and junk.

Re:The gecko family of browsers... (3, Funny)

ChiChiCuervo (2445) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541152)

I don't know about the environment, but I always think of car insurance when using a gecko-based browser.

Re:The gecko family of browsers... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541198)

Explanation: gecko=GEICO.

Re:The gecko family of browsers... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541325)

I still don't get it. Is this an American thing?

Brillant (-1, Offtopic)

Teahouse (267087) | more than 10 years ago | (#6540993)

Most bikes are for transportation, not for extreme downhill. This is a brilliant adaptation of old and new. Great idea IMHO.

Re:Brillant (1, Funny)

AntiOrganic (650691) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541000)

Yeah, and those heat pockets on Mars? Great.

Re:Brillant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541019)

Why'd you have to bring up SCO in this story!?

Re:Brillant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541084)

17 hours a week? Hell, I spend 17 hours a DAY on slashdot!

Re:Brillant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541167)

RIAA can't subpoena Chinese, French or Russian users. And it is not even very clear if RIAA's sister organisations in their respective countries can, because laws are different over there (remember Sklyarov and how PDF encryption breaking is legal in Russia?).

Re:Brillant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541177)

Well it was funny to begin with but how many times are they going to post this 'evil bit' story?

Re:Brillant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541201)

Sure, Scientology has succeeded in removing a small article posted on Slashdot but they have gained now full exposure with a dozen links to anti-Scientology sites. ROTFLMAO.

Re:Brillant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541246)

If you stand up and recite the Pledge and just omit "Under God" no-one will even notice, let alone care. Is that too hard of a solution?

Oh yeah (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6540998)

I *love* those fonts! [sourceforge.net]

Why can't you open sores hippies come up with some nice fonts, or something?

Re:Oh yeah (3, Interesting)

sremick (91371) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541132)

Not sure if this is really flamebait or not, but for argument's sake, I wanted to post a screenshot of MY Galeon, showing the fonts are just fine:

http://vtbsd.net/galeon_shot.png [vtbsd.net]

This is Galeon 1.3.7 on FreeBSD 5.1, with all ports kept up-to-date.

Re:Oh yeah (1)

juhaz (110830) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541394)

/. Front page in the screenshot, first article:

Posted by Hemos on 10:46 AM September 28th, 2001

Two years is an eternity in IT world, check out something bit more recent and you might be pleasantly surprised...

Those ancient screenshots sure aren't very good for PR, though :)

What is better? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541001)

What is better?

a) The Galeon browser?

or

b) Sex with a mare?

Sex with a mare (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541010)

Taking a horse cock in my ass is less painful than looking at those goddamn fonts.

MOD PARENT UP INSIGHTFUL (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541022)

And funny. If I'd had any Pepsi in my mouth I would've spewed it on my keyboard. Oh, and by the way, I got the FP. Ha!

Re:Sex with a mare (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541240)

You know, you don't have to take it up your ass, just push the tip against your anus and rub along and he will pump his whole load into you. Besides, reasonable amount of stretching lets you absorb whole stallion cock, together with the flare.
(although fonts stink worse than layer of smegma on a stallion who hasn't been let coles to a mare for a year.)

The comment form: broken? (4, Funny)

Bootsy Collins (549938) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541007)


The comment form would be a lot more useful if it had a "submit" button, so that you could actually give them the comment.

Unless it's not showing up because my browser is broken. But in that case, I'd like to comment on that, since I'm using Galeon.

Re:The comment form: broken? (1)

topher1kenobe (2041) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541049)

that's odd, it shows on every browser I've tried.

Re:The comment form: broken? (1)

Bootsy Collins (549938) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541590)


that's odd, it shows on every browser I've tried.

Yeah, it's there now.

I would have complained to them directly, to get them to add the submit button; but . . . .

my question (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541009)

Here is my question.

Why don't you do something useful for a change? Your software sucks shit. It is bloated, slow, riddled with bugs, and an embarrasment to the open source community.

The world does NOT need another shitty half-ass browser.

FOAD

come closer (3, Funny)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541013)

"Sssssoooo precioussssss, what do you want to knowwww about Galeonnnnn".

Ooops, wrong Galeon. Sorry.

Galeon is unbloated without XUL interface (4, Informative)

zymano (581466) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541018)

From the Manifest-

MANIFESTO A web browser is more than an application, it is a way of thinking, it is a way of seeing the world. Galeon's principles are simplicity and standards compliance. Simplicity: While Mozilla has an excellent rendering engine, its default XUL-based interface is considered to be overcrowded and bloated. Furthermore, on slower processors even trivial tasks such as pulling down a menu are less than responsive. Galeon aims to utilize the simplest interface possible for a browser. Keep in mind that simple does not necessarily mean less powerful. We believe the commonly used browsers of today are too big, buggy, and bloated. Galeon addresses simplicity with a small browser designed for the web -- not mail, newsgroups, file management, instant messaging or coffee making. The UNIX philosophy is to design small tools that do one thing, and do it well. Galeon also addresses simplicity with modularity to make a light and powerful application. If something can be implemented using external applications or components, we use it rather than wasting resources in the web browser. Integration will be achieved with CORBA, Bonobo, and the ever popular command line. Mail will be handled with your favorite e-mail application (Evolution, pine, mutt, balsa, pronto, whatever); GTM (Gnome Transfer Manager) will be used to download files in a standardized manner. Standards compliance: The introduction of non-standard features in browsers could make it difficult or impossible to use alternative products like Galeon if developers embrace them. Alternative (standards complying) browsers could not be able to fully access web sites making use of these features. The success of non-standard features can ultimately lead to forcing one browser, on one platform to dominate the market. Standards compliance ensures the freedom of choice. Galeon aims to achieve this.

Re:Galeon is unbloated without XUL interface (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541041)

I noticed you changed your signature text to not include a certain word. Why?

Wanted to get more words in there. (0)

zymano (581466) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541063)

Ice T is the biggest FRAUD. He's now on TV playing a policeman. What a joke . EH.

Re:Galeon is unbloated without XUL interface (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541127)

This is lovely.

Their MANIFESTO:
"While Mozilla has an excellent rendering engine, its default XUL-based interface is considered to be overcrowded and bloated"

The interview:
"We still have problems dealing with the bad image we have of 1.3 as a featureless POS"
"We've come a long way after hitting rock-bottom"

So, what is that 'problem' ? Let's see, what they want to do:
"Dump the albatross called bonoboui"
"getting rid of the pain called bonoboui"
"Getting rid of libbonoboui. I hate libbonoboui."

But what IS bonobo UI ? Bonoboui is the UI widget set they used, instead of XUL:
"While quite nice for static UI, it's painful for dynamic menus and toolbars"
"Using it has caused a lot of harm to galeon"

This is funny shit. Their MANIFEST says that they wnt to do a XUL-less browser because XUL sucks (they know better), and their replacement sucks two orders of magnitude more.

I have an idea for them: why don't they use XUL for the interface ? It is quite nice for both static _and_ dynamic UI... And I know a couple of XUL browser that are really fast. And modular. And extensible. And maintained.

Re:Galeon is unbloated without XUL interface (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541266)

I don't want to get into the XUL Sucks argument (even though it does), but Galeon had a stable, responsive interface 2 years before Mozilla did.

No, sorry (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541030)

Opera is the best browser yet.

(And don't give me any "not free" shit. You can crack it, and I don't give a fuck about the source code)

Re:No, sorry (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541120)

I don't give a fuck about the source code

HA! Like you would understand it if you saw it.

Mirror of the interview, decently formatted (1, Informative)

James A. A. Joyce (681634) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541033)

Galeon Developer Interview, July 2003

Due to his own curiosity and the apparent curiosity (or vocal ignorance) of folks around the net, Topher The Web Guy asked some of the Galeon developers a few questions. If your curiosity is not satiated, there'll be a form at the bottom to ask your own questions.

ric: Ricardo Fernández Pascual
yaneti: Yanko Kaneti
philipl: Philip Langdale
tko: Tommi Komulainen

How "healthy" is the galeon project?

philipl:
Stable but serious. :-)

We're operating at a fairly low level right now but we've gained a lot more focus recently and Crispin has been a great help. Having the whole gnome farce behind us is also a relief. ximian deciding to ship galeon as their primary browser is a big boost, especially given redhat has thrown us out (no surprises) and slackware too *sniff*. We still have problems dealing with the bad image we have of 1.3 as a featureless POS; most people don't realise how far we've come since October 2002. But we're getting there, slowly but steadily. Galeon isn't going away.

yaneti
Pretty healthy all things considered. Not being "the official GNOME browser". Excluded from Red Hat rawhide. Dissed for all the wrong reasons by uninformed people. - Yet people still seem to be interested and most importantly "external" patches seem to have picked up recently, which is just great. Many thanks.

tko
We're progressing nicely, if a bit slowly. We've come a long way after hitting rock-bottom and more people are starting to realize that, so the bad image we got last year should be a thing in the past.

In an interesting twist of events, the Epiphany team has started developing an extension system, and the first extension is mouse gestures - the sort of feature the whole disagreement that eventually lead to Epiphany's birth was all about. After a fashion they're sharing our view on the 'advanced' features after all, and I'm guessing by GNOME 2.6 it'll get where we are now. I only wonder why we couldn't start that last October when I was suggesting it, and skip all the fla^Wfriendly discussions. Oh well...

ric
It is surprisingly healthy if you think that it has not had a stable[1] release in a lot of time and that it no longer considered "the" gnome browser. I think that there is an important niche for galeon as the usable and *useful* gnome browser.

[1] even if the released versions are only development versions and not officially stable, they are quite stable actually. I use CVS builds always and it does not crash easily. discussions. Oh well...

How much work is left before Galeon 1.3 becomes Galeon 2.0?

philipl:
I've just updated the TODO list.

Mainly, we want to:

* Dump the albatross called bonoboui
* Reorganise the prefs dialog to actually be useful.
* Make the bookmark editor not suck big fat rocks
* get the stylesheet chooser back. that is really missed.
* polish! polish! polish!

Unfortunately this means we do have a big architectural step left which is exorcising bonoboui and switching to the egg library. The other stuff is comparatively straightforward.

yaneti
Thats a kind of managerial question which would be best left to philip. I count whats left by looking at the number of bugs on the 2.0 milestone, which might be entirely bogus because its only me who puts them there :)

tko
A fair amount. While we have a good set of features and a few more coming, they're not presented well to users. For example, mouse gestures have been implemented since last September, but still people keep asking about them. We need to go through the preferences and decide which ones to show in the dialog, which ones to keep semi-hidden in GConf only, and which ones to remove.

Another large task to do is to update the documentation, although I'm not sure anyone reads it anyway ;) I hope we can get someone who's both willing and capable of writing good documentation.

And we need a lot of polish. There are little things all around that are perfectly usable, but with small modifications could be even better.

There are also some technical changes we need to do, most notably getting rid of the pain called bonoboui. While quite nice for static UI, it's painful for dynamic menus and toolbars.

ric
Galeon 2.0 should be released once we have feature (and stability) parity with 1.2.x. I don't miss any of the missing features from 1.2.x now, but there are some users still missing small things.

It's hard to give a time estimation, but I expect a 2.0 release before the end of the summer.

Are more developers starting to come on board?

philipl:
Well, one at least. Crispin Flowerday has been doing a brilliant job; he's highly motivated, like we used to be :-) and brings a fresh mind to old problems. We also have a volunteer for the stylesheet menu, but tko will be in a better position to talk about that.

tko
Yes, Crispin Flowerday has been wonderful in fixing and adding and patching up things we've overlooked or not bothered doing ourselves yet. If he's the sample, we'll take a dozen ;)

Robert Clark is working on the links/related documents toolbar button, and he also showed interest in restoring the stylesheet selector in the menu. Unfortunately I'm slow at reviewing the patches so it takes time.

Besides work, life, and other interests there's only so much time left for Galeon; it would be a big boost if we were actually paid for doing this. One can always dream, right? ;)

ric
Yes, and it's great to see new contributors submitting patches to the list.

Most times, the easiest way to get something done is to submit a patch. Even if it is wrong it does motivate a lot to fix the problem.

What are your top 3 bugs that need fixing?

philipl:

* Stupid goatse icon of the toolbar to respond to pref changes correctly.
* Printing crashes (if they're true, not yet properly confirmed)
* Can't escape out of typeaheadfind (this seems fairly minor but it really gets me because it reflects the suckiness of bonoboui. bonoboui eats the shortcut (escape) and refuse to let anyone see it.

yaneti
Just one I can think of atm: Printing seems to be crashing in some cases, not even sure its a galeon problem but it just comes up a lot - see bug 114869.

We have a pretty big amount of open bug reports many of which UNCONFIRMED and many others just not relevant to the 1.3 codebase anymore. The former are certainly partly my fault, sometimes I just can't catch everything thats coming, or I fail to sort it in the right place. More eyes on these would be highly welcome. The latter perhaps just can be closed someday but I can't really decide when it would be good time to do that.

tko

* inactive tabs steal keyboard focus when done loading
* cookie confirmation dialog occasionally ends up in wrong workspace
* a dialog popping up while performing gestures blocks X

Although, I'm not sure if it's in our power to fix these :-/

ric
I have lots of bugs in my bugzilla folder that should be fixed. I can't think of a top 3... the problem is that I have got used to the bugs so I ignore them when using galeon.

What are the top three features you want added?

philipl:
You'll notice these are 1.2.x features. I haven't had a chance to think beyond getting back to where we started. :-)

* Feature complete Tab menu (restoring move-to menu items)
o depends on ripping out bonoboui. Dynamic menu generation in bonoboui is a horrible messy bloated process that I refuse to touch.
* Stylesheet menu.
* Page info dialog.

yaneti
Can't think of anything major. Many small additions bringing it to the 1.2.x usefulness level would be nice. Most of these are tied to the menu and toolbar code which unfortunately seems to be hard to deal with currently. A port to a better system , perhaps the new egg/gtk code would be very welcome.

tko
Sharing bookmarks, cookies, history, passwords, and preferences with all and any browsers that might be installed on the system; at the moment if I want to try another browser, say epiphany, I have to reconfigure all settings from scratch and import or export bookmarks. You can basically forget about cookies and history. After browsing for a while I'd have to re-import the bookmarks back to Galeon, assuming the other browser didn't completely destroy the bookmarks structure or some metadata (smart bookmarks, for example.) Next day, try Konqueror and do everything all over again.

I'm painfully aware the above is not exclusive to browsers (I've lost count how many times I've needed to configure mail folders somewhere.) As a user I see no real reason why I'd need configure something more than once, unless I'm overriding some specific setting.

It's a huge task and progress is slowly being made in that direction. Unfortunately I, like probably everyone else, find it more satisfying to work on something where I can see the results immediately.

Oh, you meant in this lifetime? ;) Well, let's see...

* icons in notebook tabs
* related documents navigation
* smart bookmarks in the context menu

ric
# Getting rid of libbonoboui. I hate libbonoboui. Using it has caused a lot of harm to galeon. I'm glad that gnome is getting rid of it now using EggToolbar, but it's a shame that we had to write a lot of code to workaround that horrible api. Unfortunately, I think that we are not going to be able to do this before 2.0.
# Drag and drop and context menus everywhere, like in galeon 1. This is dependent from the previous one.
# Saving backward/forward history in session.

Re:Mirror of the interview, decently formatted (1)

SharpFang (651121) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541222)

* polish! polish! polish!

I'm happy you want to support my native language so enthusiastically, but don't you think people from other countries could feel a bit neglected?

C'mon Michael! (-1, Flamebait)

Junks Jerzey (54586) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541059)

First you post a story about Reiser4 without any indication of what Reiser4 is. I read Slashdot regularly, but never heard of it. Then you post a story about Galleon, again without any hit to the reader about what it might be.

For the uninitiated... (0)

James A. A. Joyce (681634) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541101)

...Galeon is a GNOME World Wide Web browser that seems to constantly hover towards being accepted without actually being embraced as has Mozilla or Konqueror, alternating between being in disrepute and in popularity more often than Humphrey Chimpden Earwicker! This seems to be because of past attitudes regarding its bugginess and not-so-good graphical bugs due to the graphical APIs and libraries that it uses.

Re:C'mon Michael! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541115)

you obviously don't use linux... which makes me wonder: why do you even read slashdot?

Re:C'mon Michael! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541154)

you obviously don't use linux... which makes me wonder: why do you even read slashdot?

1) /. != linux
2) ReiserFS != linux
3) Galeon != linux

Re:C'mon Michael! (1)

whereiswaldo (459052) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541235)

First you post a story about Reiser4 without any indication of what Reiser4 is. I read Slashdot regularly, but never heard of it. Then you post a story about Galleon, again without any hit to the reader about what it might be.

I admit I knew what the ReiserFS is and what Galeon is, but I think a link would have been helpful.

My biggest pet peeve of computer magazines (eg. PC Magazine) is that they feature new products in the index and don't say what they are. They review cameras, printers, scanners, computers, cpus, hard disks, displays, and so on and I'm supposed to know what a "Super DTA Zapmeister" is. Say what?

Question for the developers (-1)

Bold Marauder (673130) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541069)

Programming for libbonobo

-or-

Sex with a mare?

Re:Question for the developers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541210)

You compare these ugly bonobos with sleek, lean mares? Come on!

The big question is.... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541081)

When will you dump gecko for the native gtkhtml engine. Its faster, its got DECENT fonts and its easier to develop for.

Re:The big question is.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541182)

> When will you dump gecko for the native gtkhtml engine. Its faster, its got DECENT fonts and its easier to develop for.

Sure. They dumped XUL for the mess libbonoboui is, so they should just dump gecko too...

as a galeon user who doesn't use gnome... (2, Interesting)

intermodal (534361) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541103)

I haven't had stability problems with it, and I rather like it better than Mozilla itself. I know it could use some work, but I find it disappointing to know that my favorite browser is being dropped...

Re:as a galeon user who doesn't use gnome... (1)

JanneM (7445) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541668)

It isn't being dropped. It has the same status it's always had. Until now, Gnome has never had an "official" browser, and, well, while Galeon isn't the "official" one now, it never was before either. 1.2 is/was a great browser, and the upcoming version is likely just as good if not better. Just continue to use it and enjoy it!

contantly changing ui (5, Interesting)

ChiChiCuervo (2445) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541122)

I think people wouldn't be dropping galeon if they core team were vigilant with maintaining the UI from version to version.

For instance, I used to be able to have my tabs on the bottom, then i couldn't, then i could, and now i can't again. I vastly prefer galeon's tabs to mozilla's, being one of those features that keeps me with galeon even now, but i'm sick of this on again , off again feature.

Another on again, off again feature I like was the ability to right click on the handle of one of my custom toolbars and opening the entire folder in tabs. They recently re-added this feature in the bookmarks menu, but I really miss it on the toolbar itself.

Frankly, if there were another browser that had a similar level of control of bookmarks and custom toolbars, I'd switch to it in a second. Nothing else comes quite that close to galeon's level of customizibility.

I just wish Galeon wasn't so flighty in it's feature set.

Re:contantly changing ui (1)

viperblades (576174) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541193)

In the new Galeon you need to use gconf-editor to set up "advanced" settings such as where the tabs are located etc etc. Sorry for my horrible grammar.

Re:contantly changing ui (1)

gnalle (125916) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541212)

Another on again, off again feature I like was the ability to right click on the handle of one of my custom toolbars and opening the entire folder in tabs.

I disagree with you on the usefulness of this feature. Actually I was close to writing a bug report asking them to remove it. In the Galeon version of Redhat 8.0 the feature is assigned to middle click. The problem is that I activate this feature by mistake several times a day, and even with the nice Galeon tabs, it takes a while to delete 20 tabs.

I wish that the developers of Galeon will find strength in this slashdot debate to keep up the good work.

Re: contantly changing ui (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541569)


> I wish that the developers of Galeon will find strength in this slashdot debate to keep up the good work.

Meetoo, but they need to go back to 1.2 and start improving from there, rather than redesigning it to take away all the features and customizability. The upgrade from GTK1 to GTK2 needn't have involved anywhere near so many changes as it has.

Re:contantly changing ui (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541386)

Mozilla Firebird may have the features you like. Most features are available as extensions [texturizer.net] . You may have already looked at that page, but, if not, you might be suprised at what is available.

Nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541128)

Now how about fixing the filedialog, adding scrollwheel desktop switching, and color scheme changing and we won't be laughing at gnome.

Galeon RIP (5, Informative)

grzebo (692746) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541199)

It used to be my favourite browser, but fore some reason or other the developers have decided to destroy it. While Galeon 1.2.x was superb, version 1.3 is just slightly better than IE.

IMHO they got exactly what they worked so hard for - rejection from everyone.

A far-from-complete list of features they broke:
  • Tab settings - how wide they are, if they should get shortened, etc.
  • favicons on tabs - supposedly it's possible to turnt them on using some magical commands, but I haven't managed
  • a button to erase the address bar - I don't want its content on my clipboard
  • focus of newly opened tabs/windows - additional clicks necessary
  • rocker style mouse gestures - just pressing RMB and then LMB used to go back
  • stability
  • saving sessions as groups of bookmarks
  • setting individual handling programs for different extensions


Galeon used to be an example of how an Open Source Product can be better than proprietary one (i.e. Opera). Now it's just pathetic. One more reason to dislike anyting GNOME-related (and I used to run Galeon from KDE).

Re:Galeon RIP (2, Insightful)

multi io (640409) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541259)

Galeon used to be an example of how an Open Source Product can be better than proprietary one (i.e. Opera). Now it's just pathetic. One more reason to dislike anyting GNOME-related (and I used to run Galeon from KDE).

I agree. The major problem with Galeon is that it is a GNOME program instead of a simple GTK one. I really don't know why they chose to do this...

Re:Galeon RIP (1)

Mr.Ned (79679) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541462)

I'll second this - a lot of great features just seemed to disappear from 1.2x to 1.3x. The GTK2 is awesome, but dropping all those features was killer.

Re:Galeon RIP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541506)

I like alot of things in galeon that I cannot find with another browser...especially the smart bookmark that actually has a separate text field and the right click clone tab/detach tab feature.

Re:Galeon RIP (1)

grzebo (692746) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541675)

"the right click clone tab/detach tab feature."

It's gone in 1.3. Don't upgrade.

Re: Galeon RIP (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541520)


> It used to be my favourite browser, but fore some reason or other the developers have decided to destroy it. While Galeon 1.2.x was superb, version 1.3 is just slightly better than IE. IMHO they got exactly what they worked so hard for - rejection from everyone. A far-from-complete list of features they broke [...]

Are those deliberate breaks, or just signs that 1.3 is still transitional?

I agree that 1.3 sux; I've built a couple of releases, found a massive lack of functionality, and returned to 1.2 every time, but I always thought it was because they were in the middle of a major rewrite rather than deliberately crippling it. I'll be disappointed if that's wrong.

[Posting from Galeon 1.2.7 - nice browser.]

Re:Galeon RIP (2, Insightful)

uhmmmm (512629) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541538)

I just installed galeon 1.3.7 to give it another try after switching to phoenix .. err .. firebird. here's my take on some of these complaints:

* Tab settings - how wide they are, if they should get shortened, etc.
Agree - need this feature back

* a button to erase the address bar - I don't want its content on my clipboard
Definately needed

* focus of newly opened tabs/windows - additional clicks necessary
Edit->Preferences->User Interface->Jump to new tabs Automatically

* rocker style mouse gestures - just pressing RMB and then LMB used to go back
Works for me ...

* stability
Haven't had any crashes yet ...

Re:Galeon RIP (2)

LinuxGeek8 (184023) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541617)

* focus of newly opened tabs/windows - additional clicks necessary
Edit->Preferences->User Interface->Jump to new tabs Automatically


No, the other way around. If you open a link in new tab, without automatically jumping to it, it still gives focus to the new tab.
It should keep the current tab in focus, which for example will give you a PageDown on hitting the spacebar (very usefull when reading /. and skimming the comments in a story).

* stability
Haven't had any crashes yet ...

I had almost daily crashes with early 1.3 releases. At least since 1.3.5 things are shaping up, I only get an occasional crash now and then, about once a week or so. Version 1.2.x was rocksolid here, I could keep the same window on my desktop for weeks without having it crash. I hope they get 1.3/2.0 that stable, it would be great.

Galeon is unstable under KDE (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6541227)

I have used Galeon since the 0.x days however since 1.2 version I have had Galeon crash on me numerous times running under KDE. The problem is Galeon's interaction with KDE's aRTs (sound daemon). None of the crashes happen with e.g. Mozilla or Phoenix and Galeon people are unwilling/unable (?) to fix Galeon to play along with aRTs. There are numerous bugs filed in Bugzilla about the issue but the developers mark it "NOTABUG" ie. not a Galeon bug. Regardless of whose bug is it it is shame that Galeon people haven't been able to address the issue. I have thus moved on to Mozilla Firebird.

Why Galeon is not included in GNOME (4, Interesting)

Alethes (533985) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541273)

From Final Modules List for the GNOME 2.4 Desktop Release [gnomedesktop.org] :
There was a lot of vocal support for Epiphany on the mailing list, but little for Galeon. So, the consensus points to Epiphany. That was due to a number of factors: The Epiphany project goals seem to be better aligned with GNOME's goals, the Galeon developers do not seem to be 100% behind GNOME's goals; Epiphany has had regular releases for GNOME 2.3.x; the Epiphany hackers are working within the project to define standards and code for toolbar editing and other functionality, etc. While there are a lot of reservations about offending the Galeon hackers, and great disappointment that the two projects have not been able to cooperate, Epiphany does seem to have the consensus, and make the most technical sense. That is not to say that Epiphany is without faults, or that Galeon is not excellent software -> we do need to make a choice at some stage: Right now there is strong support to add a browser to the Desktop release, and strong support for that browser to be Epiphany.

Re:Why Galeon is not included in GNOME (-1)

Seth Finklestein (582901) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541518)

Open Source: The freedom to follow a different herd.

Open Source: Join the crowd or be FUDded and LARTed to death.

Open Source: Build it yourself, fucktard!

Open Source: Read the fucking manual. If the manual hasn't been written yet, write it and then read it.

Open Source: 50,000 pre-alpha Tetris clones [sourceforge.net] can't be wrong!

Open Source: Follow the singing beards to Freedom. That's Freedom as in (insert newspeak word here).

Open Source: Where do you want a bunch of egomaniacal bergeeks to drag you today?

Open Source: Here today, gone tomorrow.

Open Source: What happens when you stop throwing money at the problem.

Re: Why Galeon is not included in GNOME (2, Interesting)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541594)


> the Galeon developers do not seem to be 100% behind GNOME's goals

The same can be said for the newsreader Pan: the author ripped all the GNOME stuff out a while back.

I wonder whether this might be the beginning of a trend, and kind of hope it is. IMO GNOME 2 has been a major step in the wrong direction.

my 2 cents (4, Insightful)

snilloc (470200) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541274)

1) "File bookmark" is a great feature. More browsers should have it.

2) Galeon's primary raison d'etre is that Gecko is good but Mozilla is bloated. With the growing popularity of Firebird (and the eventual mainstreaming of FB into Moz), will there really be much of a need for Galeon?

bloatzilla is dead (-1, Flamebait)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541298)

konqueror and safari are the new browser kings on *nix. The problem with the mozilla is the bloat and galeon went along way to fix that. I havent used ang gnome browser i a while since iswitched to kde lat year and then to OSX this summer. I think a light browser that is just that , only a browser is the way to go. Safari is king for a reason it does what it is supposed to do --browse the web and thats it.

Re:bloatzilla is dead (1)

Znonymous Coward (615009) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541549)

konqueror and safari are the new browser kings on *nix

So where can I get safari for AIX or konqueror for Solaris? Part of the reason Mozilla is so big is because of it's cross platform design.

What a great content free post.

PS...

Konqueror sucks and Safari is not 100% open source.

Is it just me... (2, Interesting)

.com b4 .storm (581701) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541446)

Or is this "interview" really not all that interesting? For someone, such as myself, who has not followed Galeon closely for the last year or so, it would help to provide some concrete background on the problems they've had. Instead, this so-called interview is basically comprised of two topics, rehashed over and over: libbonobo sucks, and Crispin 0wnz.

This interview sheds very little light on Galeon's past, present, or future. It seems mostly like a page full of bitching by the main developers, with little substance. Tell us about the recent history of Galeon, good and bad, the direction the project will hopefully take in the coming months, etc. "We need to get back to 1.2" is not very helpful, especially for people who don't follow Galeon closely.

To do list (1)

Znonymous Coward (615009) | more than 10 years ago | (#6541507)

I like this item on their to do list...

polish! polish! polish!

It really great to see that open source developers are working a the linux desktops final flaw.
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