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China Proposes Rival Video Format

Hemos posted more than 11 years ago | from the yay-duplication dept.

Graphics 424

Richard Finney writes "Yahoo News is reporting that the Chinese government is supporting an effort to develop a homegrown standard, called 'AVS,' for compressing digital audio and video in order to avoid paying royalties on proprietary compression schemes. The AVS groups website is online but in Chinese."

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6 billion people (1, Interesting)

rnd() (118781) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578462)

With 6 Billion people, a little bit of money saved on royalties will make a huge difference.

Plus, with other players wanting to enter the market, the Chinese will probably make some money on royalties as well.

1.2 billion (1, Informative)

qwertme (643445) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578482)

The population is closer to 1.2 billion I think.

Re:1.2 billion (5, Informative)

Fuyu (107589) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578519)

According to China Population Information and Research (CPIRC) [cpirc.org.cn] , the total population in Mainland China is 1,289,646,742.

Re:1.2 billion (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578552)

According to China Population Information and Research (CPIRC), the total population in Mainland China is 1,289,646,742.

1.1 billion of whom don't have computers and probably couldn't care less. I get tired of people using China's population as some kind of wow factor while ignoring the fact that the majority of China's population is very poor and is exploited by the communist government for the benefits of a few rich committee members.

Sure, we have a similar situation in the USA, but at least we don't bullshit the world about it and pretend we're all one big happy communist nation. What's probably driving this more than anything, as usual, is the movie pirates. I'm not talking about the pimply faced geek in his basement burning SVCDs, but the hard-core mass duplicators who make the Italian Mafia look like a bunch of tired old wops.

Re:1.2 billion (2, Informative)

Fuyu (107589) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578595)

According to this Associated Press article [myinky.com] , "The number of Internet users in China grew by 15 percent over the past six months to 68 million, while the number of Web sites surged by 28 percent, the government said." "China has the world's second-largest online population, but is far behind the United States, with more than 165 million."

Re:1.2 billion (2, Insightful)

TheMidget (512188) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578597)

but at least we don't bullshit the world about it and pretend we're all one big happy communist nation.

No, but you bullshit the world, and pretend you're all one big free democratic nation.

Insightful? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578671)

Maybe if you are in 3rd grade. But a lame ass comeback like that is sure to get scored well by the mindless sheep-think moderator drones around here. "Hmmm, that looks anti-U.S. Better mod it up insightful before somebody else does it first".

People in China cant even VIEW THIS WEBSITE, dumbass. The subject is CHINA. Why all the need for the U.S.-hate? Does it really make you feel better?

Looks to me like sour grapes.

Re:1.2 billion (0)

amichalo (132545) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578673)

Oh it's not bullshit. Come check it out.

Re:1.2 billion (-1, Flamebait)

Roofus (15591) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578682)

No, no. I live here, and it smells like bullshit to me.

Re:1.2 billion (1)

iapetus (24050) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578572)

I'm guessing not all of then own digital video playback systems, as well.

Re:1.2 billion (1, Funny)

vague (107055) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578677)

*tick*
1,289,646,743
*tick*
1,289,646,744
*tic k*
1,289,646,745
*tock*
1,289,646,744
*tick*
1,289,646,745
*tick*
1,289,646,746
*tick*
1,28 9,646,747 ...

Gee, I'm really glad they provided a singular digit precision :-)

Re:1.2 billion (4, Funny)

neonstz (79215) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578560)

Well, according to the RIAA the population in China is the equivalent of 900 million people, since the chinese are a bit shorter.

6 billion people? (0)

shigelojoe (590080) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578534)

The last thing I want to do is sound pedantic or trollish, but if you're referring to the amount of people in China, I'm pretty sure the number of people is a little closer to 1 billion.

Chinese PEOPLE won't make money (0, Troll)

TrollBridge (550878) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578548)

"Plus, with other players wanting to enter the market, the Chinese will probably make some money on royalties as well."

The Chinese GOVERNMENT might make money, but I'd bet my left testicle that none of it would find its way to the people. That's not how communism works.

Re:Chinese PEOPLE won't make money (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578615)

Thankfully, we live in capitalist countries, where when the government makes money they give it to the people.

Well, some of them.

Alright, their friends that gave them money to run their elections in the first place.

Re:Chinese PEOPLE won't make money (2, Interesting)

Hittite Creosote (535397) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578669)

Whatever the Chinese Communist Party is, it isn't communist. They don't appear to have any problems with capitalists, as long as they steer clear of political comment. It'd be better to describe them as an authoritarian party.

Not that a democratic governments making money guarantees that *all* the people will get their fair share. If you believe yours does, you live in cloud cuckoo land.

LINUX USERS ARE FILTH (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578463)

Please Discuss

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578465)

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Well... (1, Interesting)

Sir Haxalot (693401) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578467)

will this new format make any difference in quality/compression I wonder?

Piracy? (3, Funny)

Rosyna (80334) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578471)

I wonder if this would cut down on media piracy worldwide. Since Videos/DVDs on the black market in China would be in AVS Format, no other country could play them.

Just a thought.

Re:Piracy? (3, Insightful)

AllUsernamesAreGone (688381) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578486)

"no other country could play them." ... until the hardware manufacturers get wind of the fact that there's huge demand for AVS capable players....

Re:Piracy? (2, Interesting)

rjch (544288) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578530)

"no other country could play them." ... until the hardware manufacturers get wind of the fact that there's huge demand for AVS capable players....

As ridiculous as this sounds, I don't doubt that it's possible. After all, the good DVD player that I bought a few years ago for $750 is sitting right underneath the cheap & nasty $150 DVD player that will play my burnt (S)VCDs. (please bear in mind that I live in Australia, so the prices won't sound right to anyone in the US) The truly annoying thing is that my good DVD player will quite happily play original VCDs and SVCDs, but point blank refuses to read CR-R/RW discs.

Re:Piracy? (5, Informative)

iluvpr0n (306594) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578541)

No, it won't. Mainland China is now separated into its own region (region 6, region 3 is used in Hong Kong, South Korea, and some other Southeast Asian countries). Anyone who is making bootleg video isn't going to play by the rules; they want to maximize the number of people they can sell to. So if you go on ebay to buy those bootleg copies of Star Wars IV - VI you won't find that they say "Region 6. Only playable in China!" It'll be the same way with this AVS format. It also assumes this technology would replace DVDs in China, which seems a bit far-stretched at this point.

Re:Piracy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578556)

I don't see how it would even slow down piracy. If anything, China is one of the largest consumers of pirated IP around. For the Chinese market, pirates would simply produce counterfeits in the new standard. Pirates wouldn't have any trouble counterfeiting goods in the standard of their customers choice.

Re:Piracy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578607)

Cut it down or increase it tenfold? China also happens to be the biggest software and video pirate in the world....

Re:Piracy? (5, Interesting)

garyok (218493) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578620)

I wonder if this would cut down on media piracy worldwide. Since Videos/DVDs on the black market in China would be in AVS Format, no other country could play them.

Who the heck do you think manufactures all the players? Chinese companies. They'll throw in AVS support for nothing with their players (no point in setting up 2 production lines when 1 will do), just like they threw in support for VCD and SVCD. And then the players will get shipped to every country in the world.

In fact, this is a real shot in the arm for piracy, as they can rip the video from DVDs, repackage it in non-region encoded AVS format. Then they fire it around the wibbly-wobbly web in handy, ready-to-burn form and their little pirate buddies with an AVS-compliant player go "Woohoo! No more swapping SVCD discs!"

But, for exactly the same reasons, it'll also be a boost for amateur and small media production companies as they won't have to pay Philips and Sony a big wad of their earnings to get their media distributed worldwide.

A better question would be: given China's intransigence when it comes to upholding international intellectual property agreements, should we rip off this format, use it for publishing everything, make tools to create and edit AVS files willy-nilly, burn AVS discs, blah, blah, blah..., and not pay them one red cent for it?

Go China! (4, Insightful)

seldolivaw (179178) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578475)

In case anybody else hasn't noticed, China is turning out to be -- in fact, already is, simply by its sheer size -- the world's largest booster of open source and royalty-free hardware and software in the world. Open Source and Free Software movements couldn't ask for a more powerful force to have on their side, and they are consistently expanding and improving what they offer -- first Red Flag Linux, then the dragon chip, and now this. Woo!

Re:Go China! (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578493)

Yes and I bet they will use programmers in reducation camps to create the standard. Royality free and payment free whoo hooo!

Re:Go China! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578506)

Yeah "Go China!". Never mind that they are an oppressive communist regime that slaughtered their own peaceful objectors at Tieneman Square.

But hey they have open source so "Go China!". Who cares about history or people's lives.

Re:Go China! (2, Informative)

gowen (141411) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578536)

Yeah, it's pretty hard to imagine a regime so brutal [geocities.com] it would have troops [wikipedia.org] open fire [kent.edu] on defenseless student protestors [kent.edu]

Re:Go China! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578566)

Opening fire with rubber bullets is a LITTLE different than running over your population with tanks.

Trying to argue that China is a nice friendly government and China is great place to live is only going to make you look like (more of) an idiot.

Its pretty sad when the spoiled brats of the USA are the first ones in line to bash the very government and society that gave them their freedoms in the first place. Go somewhere else, we dont need you (or want you) here.

Re:Go China! (1)

gowen (141411) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578663)

Trying to argue that China is a nice friendly government and China is great place to live is only going to make you look like (more of) an idiot.
Phew, good job I did absolutely nothing of the kind then, isn't it.

I didn't even mention China.

Re:Go China! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578577)

I thought you didnt reply to anonymous cowards? Couldnt stand it, had to get in your daily ritual of some good old fashioned U.S.-hating in, is that it?

Re:Go China! (1)

gowen (141411) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578676)

had to get in your daily ritual of some good old fashioned U.S.-hating in, is that it
I love the US. Really. Visit it every year on holiday. Don't care so much for hypocrites, or people ignorant of history, though.

Re:Go China! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578587)

As opposed to defenceless Iraqis/Afghanis/Serbs/Koreans/Vietnamese? Yeah, that's the kind of regime that might totally ignore Geneva conventions [bbc.co.uk] and lock up a load "enemy combatants" in legal limbo without trial or access to legal aid. Or wage a war based on false evidence of weapons of mass destruction [stuff.co.nz] .

The US definitely lives in a glass house as far as oppression and the killing innocent people is concerned.

Re:Go China! (5, Informative)

Fuyu (107589) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578528)

According to the Yahoo article [yahoo.com] it's not royalty-free, "Chinese manufacturers licensing that technology would pay fees in the order of one yuan ($1=CNY8.28) per device, much lower than those for MPEG, the report said. If it becomes a national standard, products of foreign companies sold in China could also have to use AVS."

Re:Go China! (0)

dillkvast (657246) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578547)

But not everything is open. I think of "the great firewall of China" among other things. But adding 6 billon people to the OSS movement might be a good thing.

if only theu made friends with India... (4, Interesting)

da5idnetlimit.com (410908) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578567)

A common pool of research and market for close to 2 billion peoples, all sharing in some way a low tech - low money environment...

Open Source is the only way to go if they want to avoid royalties...

when you have one billion inhabitant, anything can become a huge problem...

I remember my economy eacher telling us why coffee was badly seen as a morning drink in china. Because if only 1/2 of your population takes one cup coffee in the day, it amounts to 50 tons a day in purely imports...

And, also, if their standard is proposed as is in all future media players (say, how many DVD players are not made in China ?) this standard could become the worlds standards...

And the whole world will have to pay royalties to China...

Ahhhn Anticipation ! 8)

Re:if only theu made friends with India... (4, Interesting)

anpe (217106) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578637)

It's on the way, in his visit to China, late June, India's PM, Vajpayee stressed the need of collaboration between China's hardware manufacturers and India's software savy. More details here : India hails China as hi-tech ally [bbc.co.uk]

Re:Go China! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578569)

Woo!
So, who's this guy Woo?

Re:Go China! (1)

mirko (198274) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578614)

John [imdb.com] , of course, especially if we're speaking about movies !

You know you're an FOSS zealot when... (4, Insightful)

Joel Bruick (685266) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578576)

...you cheer on a country with such a horrid human rights record simply because its software ideals appear to align with your own.

Re:You know you're an FOSS zealot when... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578688)

Guantanamo!
Death penalty!

Re:You know you're a right-wing hypocrite when... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578689)

> ...you cheer on a country with such a horrid human rights record simply because its software ideals appear to align with your own.

Well, *that* explains why conservative Republicans are so adamant on protecting Saudi Arabia, aka the "big fish of September 11".

I thought that turncoat behavior was about corruption of the GOP... but I guess it is about protecting conservative ideals. God Bless Oil! :-/

Re:You know you're an FOSS zealot when... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578713)

Yup, lets support the 'protector of democracy' instead.

We know they only care about human rights and won't hurt anyone for their own gain.

Re:Go China! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578588)

China also happens to be home to the world's largest pirate industry -- encompassing everything from Warez, to video (DVDs and VCDs), games (almost all consoles).

I live in the Philippines, and here you can buy $1.50 DVD videos off the shelf, no macrovision or CSS c/o Chinese pirates =)

actually not so open (was Re:Go China!) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578590)

Replacing one proprietary standard with another proprietary standard doesn't sound like "boosting open-source and royalty-free hardware". Sounds more like they'd want their own royalties from the hardware.

Dragon chips aren't free either. They don't distribute synthesisable VHDL/verilog sources or anything. It's just their custom CPU (albeit it looks a bit like MIPS R4k) which they sell without paying license fees to anyone else.)

Could get worse (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578605)

With their own standards, the Chinese could add in draconian DRM, Censorware, and Spyware in order to keep control over their people!

China video? ROR! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578479)

What that means for the world (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578481)

All movies from China will look streched with the English voices not synching to the lip movements

Chinese Government (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578487)

You just can't say "seeming oven trench" without "Chinese Government"...

fish translation (3, Informative)

Simon (S2) (600188) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578489)

translated link [altavista.com]

Yet another proprietary codec... (2, Interesting)

ZiZ (564727) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578491)

This is probably a good idea economically for China, but it smacks a little of France's banning of the word "e-mail" [cnn.com] to me for some reason. Are there any royalty-free video standards out there? I'm not a video guy, so I don't pay much attention to that part of the world, but I know there are plenty of open/royalty-free audio [vorbis.com] codecs...

Re:Yet another proprietary codec... (2, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578537)

Not yet, I think they want a truly free VIDEO format, not just a codec. All current ones have some kind of baggage on them meaning they where developed by a company that at any time may decide to start charging. Remember what happenend to the royalty free MP3 and gif formats?

I am not really sure why this is a money matter for china, unless they are planning on becoming huge content providers the cost of licensing current formats is peanuts. I think it is more political. A truly free standard would not see chinese money going to other nations who are after all their idiological enemy.

Lets just hope that they make it a truly opensource solution, would mean no DRM since DRM can only work with closed source.

Re:Yet another proprietary codec... (5, Informative)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578580)

Xiph.org [xiph.org] isn't only developing Ogg Vorbis, but also Ogg Theora [theora.org] . It's still in alpha stages though. The technology used in Theora is based on the vp3 codec [on2.com] which is covered by patents, but Xiph.org has negotiated an "irrevocable free license to the vp3 codec for any purpose imaginable on behalf of the public".

Xiph.org is also developing the experimental wavelet-based "Tarkin" codec. As I understand it, it's more written from "scratch", much like Ogg Vorbis, but is even further ahead in the future than Ogg Theora, which they are focusing on right now.

The beauty of standards is... (3, Funny)

SharpFang (651121) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578494)

...that there's so many to choose from.

(I don't remember who said that but that's daamn right :)

FIRST OGG POST (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578496)

Why not use Ogg Vorbis

Why they don't use Ogg Video? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578498)

It is not free, after all?

But the question is... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578501)

Not Invented Here syndrome (4, Informative)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578503)

Why not just use ogg video [slashdot.org] ?

Re:Not Invented Here syndrome (1)

egghat (73643) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578538)

Yepp. Would be much cooler (and more useful for the rest of the world). But of course people tend to stick to the "not-invented-here"-syndrom. Dictators are even worse regarding this.

Bye egghat.

Re:Not Invented Here syndrome (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578553)

because its patent encumbered. its just that the patent holder said to not protect them as he released the video codec source code under an open source license.

Here's to the next 5000 years of isolationism (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578507)

China never really has gotten over that "we are the center of the earth" mentality have they? Royalties have nothing to do with it - you're talking about the largest exporter of pirated digital media in the universe. Royalties mean nothing. This is really about continuing China's history of trying to advance their civilization without using parts of anybody else's.

Re:Here's to the next 5000 years of isolationism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578521)

Hi Mr. Valenti. You really are going to need to start putting more effort in your posts here, if you want anyone to believe you.

Re:Here's to the next 5000 years of isolationism (4, Insightful)

stu_coates (156061) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578674)

China never really has gotten over that "we are the center of the earth" mentality have they?

In my experience the USA has the same problem at times.

Interesting? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578679)

Here's to China having a clue.

You know what happens when you rely on parts of everybody else's?

You're sucked into bullshit in South America and the Middle East, because you need their oil.

China was the center of the earth for quite some time in terms of technology and civilization. So, they've been in a slump - Communism didn't help out much there.

However, they've the manpower and availible resources to thrash anyone else if they ever decided to get rid of the Communist craziness.

And they seem to be slowly moving in that direction. That should scare the shit out of every other first world nation on the planet.

Damned chineese... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578510)

...they breed that falabella ponies. You must crouch really low for sex with a falabella mare.

theora? (2, Insightful)

myspys (204685) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578511)

why don't they support http://www.theora.org/ instead of building their own from scratch?

Patent Policy Bites U.S.? (5, Insightful)

Michael_Burton (608237) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578514)

The Chinese seem determined to avoid patent issues by developing their own chips, and now their own video formats.

The intellectual property laws that were supposed to guarantee our technology a dominant position may, in practice, be shutting U.S. companies out of future marketplaces, as tech customers seek a way around excessive royalties and restrictions.

Re:Patent Policy Bites U.S.? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578524)

Yeah right as if those commie pinko bastards would use U.S. technology anyway? Riiiight.

But hey you posted something anti-US so you get "+5 Insightful" Im sure.

Re:Patent Policy Bites U.S.? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578602)

Bell end, it aint anti-american to be anti-IP landgrab

Re:Patent Policy Bites U.S.? (5, Interesting)

valisk (622262) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578715)

our technology a dominant position may, in practice, be shutting U.S. companies out of future marketplaces, as tech customers seek a way around excessive royalties and restrictions.

This is indeed something which I think will happen if the present US laws are allowed to stand and are perhaps extended into Europe.

There is a term for this type of regulatory aid to National Enterprises: Mercantilism

As each Block seeks to protect its own markets with regulation including copyrights and patents which favour companies from within the block versus those from elsewhere, the markets will become increasingly reluctant to innovate and as many innovations will possibly infringe on existing patents, copyrights, national protective legislation etc, overbroad and lacking in utility.
Most innovation will occur in areas where such regulations are slack in comparison.
Perversely these innovations will not benefit the large closed markets for the same reasons, and lacking in the ability to make use of these new innovations by either importing or internal manufacturing due to high Intellectual Property costs making innovations uneconomic in comparison to exisiting products and services.
It could well be that as Large Multi-National corporations take flight to less regulated economies to gain low cost labour and low cost innovation, those jobs lost will not be replaced by new jobs created via the utilisation of new innovations, in effect locking unemployment into the system.

We can follow this up with an examination of how the USPTO has been increasing the number of patents granted for seemingly spurious claims and look at the fact that the EU is considering enacting a similar set of rules, thanks to the tireless lobbying of US Corporations and US led Industry Pressure Groups, and see that if such Laws are made compatible with existing US patents and US issued patents have the same legal status as EU patents within the EU then a financial bonanza will be the reward for the lobbyists and the US economy in general.
This will however be very short-term and will likely result in an enormous amount of cross regulation where the US Coporations will face IP claims from EU Corporations designed to close out US entry to the EU marketplace and vice versa. And almost certainly an increase in the amount of Industrial Espionage in order to be first to file IP for Patents.
It becomes difficult to see why such measures could be considered useful, but in the short term view which afflicts most corporations worldwide, the opportunity to grab a legal monopoly over entire areas of innovation, potentialy bringing many billions of $ of revenue for little to no outlay, will define how our Governments regulate on these matters.

China better than Slashdot?? (5, Interesting)

jkrise (535370) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578517)

Slashdot : Today's SCO news - Darl McBride wakes up, brushes teeth, SCOX down 10 cents.
China : So? We've got RedFlag Linux, we don't bother about US Copyright laws.

Slashdot: Intel settles with Via, latter not to make pin-compatible CPUs after 3 years... blah,blah,blah..
China: Here's the Dragon CPU. Forget Intel, forget Via.

Slashdot: CDMA and GSM are the top technologies for mobile phones.
China: We've developed SCDMA totally in-house. We don't pay royalties for that.

And now...
Slashdot: GIF is out of patent. Some image formats still remain in copyright and patents mess.
China: Here's our video format.

Slashdot: XBox can be hacked to run Linux.
China: Dragon CPU runs Midori Linux. We don't need any damn XBoxes..

And so on.. Slashdotters makes noise, China makes progress.

-

Re:China better than Slashdot?? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578533)

man... get yourself a copy of playboy and go shag that monkey! You badly need to jack out for a second, in my anonymous coward opinion. God I hate first 4 post, all the time

Re:China better than Slashdot?? (2, Insightful)

ShooterNeo (555040) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578608)

That's good...isn't it? I mean, would you rather 6 BILLION people collectively accomplished nothing, or would it be better if the country became better developed. China developing could eventually mean they actually contribute to the worldwide pool of technology. China doesn't have laws against stem cell research, so labs there could eventually provide treatments for the rest of us.

Sure, their government is oppressive (so is ours, its just a matter of degree). And maybe it will keep them down. But if they manage to reform it, become a prosperous nation, its good news for the world.

Nuclear weapons mean they are unlikely to be conquering the globe for land, so we don't need to worry about that angle.

6 Billion again (1)

pseudochaotic (548897) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578702)

Why does everybody keep saying 6 billion people? The population of China is 1.2 billion, unless they've taken over the rest of the world.

Re:China better than Slashdot?? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578634)

FYI: It has been discovered that Darl McBride name is errounous. Correct name is Darl McBribe.

communism and IP (4, Insightful)

martyn s (444964) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578518)

Communism may not be a good fit with physical goods and commodities and stuff like that, but I think China is setting a good example with intangible, non-rivalrous goods (IP). Once they design a chip, or a video compression scheme, no one can exhaust its usefulness. This is a good thing.

Now don't think I'm going so far out there. We have similar ideas here, and we at least pretend to practice them. That's the idea behind University research and stuff like that (at least before universities had the right to own the products of their research).

Here in America, I think we need more research done for the public benefit, paid with public money. There are so many intricacies to the vision I have, and I can anticipate many objections, but I'm not going to write a whole long post here. I'm just making a positive suggestion here.

Re:communism and IP (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578638)

yes, that's perfect. Because state command and control economies have always been brilliant and successful at long term thinking and resource allocation. The Chinese have great experience with this following Stalin's model - the "People's leaders" decide the best use of money, whether for manufacturing or research. Then they "encourage" the people to follow the plan. The results include killing and forcibly relocating a few million people, starvation when the brilliant leaders miscalculate how much food is needed, etc. But I'm SURE they will have a better track record in IP.

In fact, I'd love to see Slashdot's ten year plan - 90% of all resources devoted to finding new compression for anime and tentacle pron videos; 10% for jagermeister production.

You damn dirty socialist hippies can bash the market economy all you want, but it works a hell of a lot better than centralized planning.

Re:communism and IP (2, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578699)

Seems you haven't been paying attention to China for the last 20 years. They are no more socialist than America. They are certainly fascist, which is not a requirement for socialism. But, they are probably the largest free market in the world. No country, not even America has a truly free-market, the US government is always meddling as is the Chinese, but they have come a long, long way since trying to emulate the soviet Stalin.

Unfortunately, the US government seems to like what it sees there - free markets backed with fascist social policy and is moving willy-nilly to copy them. But at least it keeps the damn dirty socialist hippies in their place, right?

what about the other AVS...? (1)

grey1 (103890) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578527)

...who produce useful tools for data visualisation? Advanced Visual Systems [avs.com]

I can't see them being pleased with a different meaning for the AVS acronym...

Adult Verification System? (2, Funny)

sigmaIII (659293) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578543)

But does everyone in China have a credit card?

The best part,.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578632)

about those Adult Verification Systems is that you pay for them to confirm you are adult, they claim it's not for profit but for protecting children and the sum you pay would suffice to cover costs of holding your record in their database for millenia, but after a few months or a year you suddenly stop being adult and need to renew your adulthood confirmation.
Just in case somebody invents elixir of youth and becomes a kid?

Intels video format (1)

orv (398342) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578544)

Hmm but .AVS files are already used for Intel's old video compression format.
link. [intel.com]
This isn't going to cause confusion oh noooo. Can't see intel being too happy about their use of the AVS name for their standard either.

Re:Intels video format (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578586)

doesnt avs stands for audio video stream ?
i propose pmpwfs though.. pretty moving pictures with funky sounds.

Get ready to be second (or third or fourth ...) (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578564)

The US is losing its place as computer technology innovator. China and eastern Europe will become the new Silicon Valleys thanks to two factors:

1. Open source and free software has decimated any barriers to entry for software professionals. This is having the effect that anybody can write code, which is often of much lower quality. Now that there is no incentive to pay for any software, the software that is available will decrease in quality over time until everyone will have to write all of their own code out of necessity. Serious high-quality developers want to be paid, and when they can't make money, they will find something else to do (and maybe work on code in their "spare time"). Linux Torvalds is a rare exception; don't expect everyone to keep his kind of schedule.

2. The rate of permanent job export in this country and the accompanying lack of concern about this from business and political leaders can only be described best as "shock and awe". The loss of well-paying positions that have good potential to result in tomorrow's innovations that keep the economy moving forward will retard our leadership position. You can call me a xenophobic snob for claiming that only America can innovate, but look at history. Where have the vast majority of innovations occurred in the recent past? OSes (Linux is *not* innovation), programming languages, hardware, networking, etc. China? India? Europe? Nope. America, my friend. We built the field and now we are giving it away without a care.

I recently switched from Linux to Windows partly because of these views and partly because of low quality and lack of imagination in the Linux world. My observation was that Linux users and developers were not any better than my Windows programming friends (in fact, the best programmer I know is a hardcore Windows user.) You guys are just cheap! You don't want to pay for anything!

My views, but they're probably true.

Why not use an Open Standard (2, Interesting)

isam_b (635273) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578568)

I wonder why they wanted to invent the wheel .. there are already a number of Open Standards, and Open Source implementations that are royalty-free, such as: either they did not do enough research, or they like reinvinting thw wheel

Re:Why not use an Open Standard (1)

isam_b (635273) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578578)

Real Networks: https://www.helixcommunity.org [helixcommunity.org]

Re:Why not use an Open Standard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578653)

By having a standard that is only used in China they are stopping people from viewing imported movies that might not be approved of by the those in control. Think of it has very strong region coding.

Re:Why not use an Open Standard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578654)

..because Xvid is not fit for camcorders. Also xvid still uses the avi file format.

royalty (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578573)

i think instead of china paying royalties to outside companies, outside companies will now be paying china royalties to basically sell their devices their. so china will probably be making some cash out of this as well.

avs = avisynth (1)

metallikop (649953) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578624)

Interestingly enoguh the AVS name has already been taken [avisynth.org] . Although it's a video frame server.

And does the world need yet another incompatable video format?

Probably Nationalism (5, Insightful)

Phoenix666 (184391) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578628)

You see, everything the CCP does is aimed at reaffirming their legitimacy as the one and ruling party. There is a Chinese space program to go to the moon. There is a program to build a navy to rival the US's. There was their version of linux, and now there's this project.

I admire their technical prowess, but they're not doing it with the good of humanity in mind. It's all about proving that they're not trapped in luohouzhuyi, literally "fall-behind-ism." They've failed as a communist party, so now the only thing keeping them in power is trying to prove that they're making China strong enough to resist foreign interference. That's what this project feels like to me.

Re:Probably Nationalism (2, Insightful)

Azghoul (25786) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578651)

This is the most insightful one I've read on this article. They're totally trying to be the best without relying on us (whom they probably hate).

Good luck to them. :)

Maybe they beat us out on something significant, then we can have another president drive us towards a tangible goal (I'm thinking Kennedy and moon shots here). Maybe that'll shake us out of the self-centered malaise we seem to be in...

Re:Probably Nationalism (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578710)

"Maybe they beat us out on something significant, then we can have another president drive us towards a tangible goal (I'm thinking Kennedy and moon shots here)."

Exactly. After all, pure unadulterated nationalism is what got us to the moon the first time.

The space program could use a good swift kick in the arse. Frankly, I'd rather see a more 'free' society (like say, the EU, or India) give it to us, but hey, you take what you can get.

Random liberals aways give nationalism a bad name. A pity, considering it's been such a driving force with regard to technological advancement.

Fate help us if we ever do away with nations and become a united planet.. We'll just be a bunch of peace-loving non-competative fools, waiting for our sun to go nova.

Royalties? (1, Flamebait)

vasqzr (619165) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578631)


the Chinese government is supporting an effort to develop a homegrown standard, called 'AVS,' for compressing digital audio and video in order to avoid paying royalties on proprietary compression schemes.

Yeah, saving money on royalties on pirated movies...

AVS...? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6578643)

Artificial Vagina System?

International Open Source lobbyists needed. (4, Insightful)

supabeast! (84658) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578647)

This is why we need to support Open-Source lobbying efforts. Right now, sending a native Chinese lobbyist to push China to adopt the work of the Ogg team as their official standards would be a great coup for the Open Source movement.

AVS (3, Funny)

soliaus (626912) | more than 11 years ago | (#6578661)

There is actually a pr0n company called AVS which stands for Adult Video Systems. I wonder if they will use the format? ~me
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