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Sun Microsystems, SuSE Link Up To Sell Linux

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the left-hand-meet-right-hand dept.

Sun Microsystems 272

ChilyWily writes "Reuters is reporting that Sun Microsystems Inc. has agreed to resell and support closely held German software firm SuSE's version of the Linux operating system, the leading variant in Europe, the companies said on Friday. This agreement follows a similar one in May between Sun and Red Hat Inc. While I'm happy to see Sun's finally beginning to warm up to Linux (aka if you can't beat 'em, join 'em strategy) I wonder if this is too late for Sun?"

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272 comments

AND THEY SAID I WOULDN'T LIVE!!1 (-1)

(TK5)Dessimat0r (670505) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600863)

-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-
P_______________________8..P
E__Bow down to the_____#~..E
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I_____________________#',-.I
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P________________8',-',";,.P
E_______________#'',-',";,.E
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I_____________#(',-',";,.,.I
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I__________________________I
S____.oO TrollKore Oo._____S
-_At the head of the game._-
P__________________________P
E___irc.freedomirc.net_____E
N_______#trollkore_________N
I__________________________I
S__________________________S
-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-

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You are not logged in. You can log in now using the Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal the convenient form below, or Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6600866)

FP
iBob

You FAIL it, fucktard (-1)

(TK5)Dessimat0r (670505) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600886)

-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-
P_______________________8..P
E__Bow down to the_____#~..E
N__Lord's penis_______8.',-N
I_____________________#',-.I
S__Jesus wants your__8',-..S
-__anus, and he_____#~',-..-
P__wants it NOW! ___8_',-..P
E__________________##',-',-E
N__An original_____8',-',";N
I__TrollKore______##',-',";I
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-__By Dessimat0r ##',-',";.-
P________________8',-',";,.P
E_______________#'',-',";,.E
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E___888',-',";~8___________E
N______8#888#88____________N
I__________________________I
S____.oO TrollKore Oo._____S
-_At the head of the game._-
P__________________________P
E___irc.freedomirc.net_____E
N_______#trollkore_________N
I__________________________I
S__________________________S
-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-

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You are not logged in. You can log in now using the Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal the convenient form below, or Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal

It's about time... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6600869)

...that Sun capitalized on their immunity from whatever craziness that SCO comes up with next -- no matter what, Linux from Sun is free and clear from litigation.

Re:It's about time... (5, Insightful)

melete (640855) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600891)

no matter what, Linux from Sun is free and clear from litigation.

Not neccesarily. In the unlikely event that SCO were to win their case, Sun would be distributing any tainted parts of Linux without a valid license from the original copyright holder of the tainted code. For SCO to win, the GPL has to be invalidated, at least in a limited sense, which will leave everyone, including SCO and Sun, scrambling for legal cover.

Um No (1)

I_am_the_man (694208) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600919)

The GPL is not what is in question here and that which is in question is absolutely no threat to Sun (since they have all the licensing they need).

Re:Um No (4, Informative)

Znork (31774) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601090)

If they have any separate licensing necessary for Linux then they may not distribute Linux. The GPL prevents distributing GPL code together with code that is licensed under terms not compatible with the GPL.

SCO can try to license their alleged 80 lines in whatever way they want. The problem is you just are not allowed to distribute the other millions of lines together with those 80 lines in any case. Which means any license to do so is worthless.

Re:It's about time... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6600936)

In the unlikely event that SCO were to win their case, much, MUCH more will be fucked up than just Linux and GPL.

My believe in this world will be fucked up. And that's enough reason for me to pilot a plane straight into the SCQ HQ and every US lawyers ass for wasting his life in a sad comedies - the US courts.

Re:It's about time... (4, Interesting)

vsprintf (579676) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601005)

Not neccesarily. In the unlikely event that SCO were to win their case, Sun would be distributing any tainted parts of Linux without a valid license from the original copyright holder of the tainted code.

How so? Sun has been in bed with SCO for months [newsfactor.com] . They paid some portion of many millions of dollars for the right to the Unix code. To me it looks like Sun is playing both ends of the game, and in the middle is Solaris. I certainly wouldn't construe this as a friendly move -- just another move for Sun.

Re:It's about time... (2, Insightful)

Curtman (556920) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600909)

"no matter what, Linux from Sun is free and clear from litigation"

Thats fine as long as they are fee and clear to distribute it under the GPL, you and I are free and clear by proxy.

Re:It's about time... (1)

arcanumas (646807) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600958)

Linux NOT from Sun is also clear from litigation.
They can't sue you unless there is a court decision saying they own what they claim they do.

now only if ... (-1, Redundant)

hari (15720) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600870)

apple would join in, it would be interesting and M$ would have a competition !

Re:now only if ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601203)

Who modded that redundant? I remember reading in an IEEE publication about the tantalizing prospect of a Sun, Red Hat, Apple merger. Apple's desktop experience, with Red Hat's linux experience, and Sun's enterprise experience, could be a linux powerhouse.

Hmm! (-1, Flamebait)

AndyFewt (694753) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600871)

I wonder what SCO will have to say.

SCO: "Buy our license!"
Sun: "No, we have our unix license, beyotch!"
SCO: "Awww, ummm... we'll sue"
*click.. brrrrrrrrrrr*
SCO: "hello?"

Yet another split direction for Sun (-1, Offtopic)

Peachy (21944) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600872)

We've had it already with the SPARC vs x86 debate and the Solaris vs Linux debate.
Now another split, with Sun not being able to make their mind up over which flavour to support.

Re:Yet another split direction for Sun (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601175)

Yeah, and IBM can't make up their mind about AIX vs Liux and HP can't make up their mind about HP-UX vs Linux.

Get a clue.

Re:Yet another split direction for Sun (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601225)

IBM is going to go with Linux over time, it is just that now AIX seems like the way to go. Didn't I read that anything that would be useful in AIX that the community wants to put into Linux, IBM would open?

--Joey

it never too late (4, Insightful)

McAddress (673660) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600882)

to go to linux. however, sun is making a big mistake. if they are not marketing solaris, they are losing their main product. why would you use a sun chip if you can get a 4 chip 64-bit x86 system running at speeds greater than 3.0 ghz? for much less. if linux takes off, it will not only destroy microsoft, but there will also be some friendly fire deaths involved as well.

Re:it never too late (2, Interesting)

BFKrew (650321) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600922)

I think the Sun vs Linux case is one in which the costs of going from Solaris to Linux in terms of hardware and training isn't that. Certainly I can see why spending a few thousand less by going for Linux over Sun.

However, as for Linux "destroying" Microsoft, the case isn't as clear as you simplistically state. There is a far greater difference between a Red Hat/SuSE and 2000 server than Solaris.

Re:it never too late (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6600931)

They market linux on their low-end machines, not on their high end machines (yes a 4 chip machine is low end in these waters). Their market is different than the one you're talking about.

Sun already lost the low-end market. They're trying to buffer their high end market by saying "we too can interact with that other OS, no need to change your high-end just to get linux compatibility"

Re:it never too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601202)

Sun already lost the low-end market.

Tell that to the place where I work. We have 1200 Sun boxes which are either dual or quad processor or huge (10/12/15k)

You arm chair administrators evidenly haven't seen the real world.

Re:it never too late (4, Insightful)

epiphani (254981) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600954)

There will always be a market for Sun boxes - of all the higher-end server machines that have been out there, sun has outlived most. They're now the defacto non-intel platform in the server arena. From my experience, sun hardware is the first platform out there that you'll run into if you cut out apple and i386 hardware.

Plus, Sun is much more than just a hardware/OS company. They're diversifying - thats good. They probably see the threat that linux/open source represents to their sun/solaris product lines, and are moving to embrace it, so they can have a peice of the linux pie when it starts eating into their solaris cashflow.

Re:it never too late (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6600964)

That's like saying the ground is the first thing you'll crash a plane into, if you cut out the oceans and mountains.

Re:it never too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601068)

No, it isn't.

Re:it never too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601265)

Yes it is.

Re:it never too late (1)

RallyDriver (49641) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601011)

Sun was the de facto standard 3 years ago - HP and IBM now are taking big chunks out of this market.

The big PA-RISC / Itanium boxes like superdome kick butt, and HP-UX has now matured into a serious industrial grade large server OS - NT, and (much as I love it for small boxes) Linux both have a way to go in this area.

Re:it never too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601222)

Sun was the de facto standard 3 years ago - HP and IBM now are taking big chunks out of this market.

Nope [sun.com]

Too bad independent sources agree, Solaris is still #1.

Re:it never too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601049)

"There will always be a market for Sun boxes"

no sir, there will not. on their current course, fewer and fewer boxes ship each year, while others ship more and more.

maybe it will take 2 years, maybe 5. but sun is fsck'd.

Re:it never too late (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601080)

so they can have a peice of the linux pie when it starts eating into their solaris cashflow.

When it starts?!?!? What, 2 years ago? We started moving into x86/Linux for high end commercial servers the moment the economy started to go south and we had to cut costs.

There's still a definite market for SUN, and it's still my preferable server platform - but it's losing out on price, and the increasingly high quality solutions available with Linux from the likes of IBM.

Re:it never too late (0, Flamebait)

HBI (604924) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601152)

The question isn't whether there will be a market for Sun gear. The question is whether Sun is still in existence to fill it, and if it is sufficient to support a company as bloated as Sun has become.

The company is not doing real well and hasn't for a while.

Re:it never too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601236)

There will always be a market for Sun boxes - of all the higher-end server machines that have been out there, sun has outlived most. They're now the defacto non-intel platform in the server arena.

On the other hand, we're replacing all our Sun boxes (mostly e450s) with Linux boxes running on dual processor AMD Athlon systems these days. They're MUCH cheaper in both maintenance costs and initial purchase, and much more powerful. Sun's time is coming to an end I'm afraid. They made some good hardware but they never woke up and realized people aren't going to buy $50k machines anymore when you can cluster 10 of them together for $20k and get 50 times more performance with x86 boxes. All our software vendors that previously supported Sun have Linux versions out anyway and they usually run much better.

Re:it never too late (2, Insightful)

Curtman (556920) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601040)

I think that with GNU/Linux being so portable, there is a chance we might be able to do away with manufacturers locking us in to an architecture. I for one would like to see hardware compete based on cost/efficiency, rather than the manufacturers operating system. It forces Sun to be more competitive if they are going to remain a hardware vendor, and the death of Solaris might free up a lot of resources that could be in hardware R&D. Having Linux as a supported platform also provides us the ability to do real world benchmark results. A comparison of the same code running on different hardware should be more useful than having numbers to compare from Windows vs Solaris vs Mac OS vs Linux vs BSD would anyhow. As long as we don't limit their ability to change the hardware without breaking compatibility we probably don't need Solaris around anyhow.

nah (5, Interesting)

thesadjester (87558) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600883)

It's never too late really when you dominate the high end unix market (with IBM). But really, when it comes to running large oracle databases that are mission critical, sun shines, and that is where their market is. They just want to expand more and keep some of the smaller market to help supplement their main focus. You may argue that the high end server market isn't their focus, but that is the area that they differ from all the other providers, which is an important thing.

Re:nah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6600918)

The high end is their main market b/c they've lost the high ground they once held in workstations.

cheap? (2, Insightful)

broeman (638571) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600885)

smells like a cheap-scate version of their original plans, but then again it could let them to be more familiar with Linux and thereby be prepared to create their own distribution later on (and discard their own *nixes).

Sun tax? (1)

SHEENmaster (581283) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600902)

How does Sun handle Solaris development costs? Will they sell me an SMP sytem with Linux rather than Solaris?

(I know they have a free download of Solaris 9, but it doesn't run on SMP systems.)

Re:Sun tax? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6600951)

They sell linux on their intel machines, not on sparc. Sun will sell you a dual proc intel machine running linux. Go to www.sun.com for more info.

Re:Sun tax? (2, Informative)

nemaispuke (624303) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601063)

I don't know where you get your information on Solaris, but the downloaded version of Solaris 9 4/03 runs quite well on my dual processor Ultra 2! And mpstat shows 2 CPU's! To be "legal" with Sun you need to purchase a license based on the function of the machine you intend to run Solaris on (either Intel or Sparc). Prior to Solaris 9, Solaris 8 Intel could handle up to 8 CPU's out of the box. I am sure that is probably still the case, you just have to pay for the licenses if you use Solaris Volume Manager, multiple processors, etc.

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Curabitur id augue sed nulla accumsan sollicitudin. Nam ornare justo vitae ante. Donec ligula. Donec felis augue, lacinia ut, vestibulum sit amet, ultricies vestibulum, dolor. Nunc nec nisl. Phasellus blandit tempor augue. Donec arcu orci, adipiscing ac, interdum a, tempus nec, enim. Phasellus placerat iaculis orci. Cras sit amet quam. Sed enim quam, porta quis, aliquet quis, hendrerit ut, sem. Etiam felis tellus, suscipit et, consequat quis, pharetra sit amet, nisl. Aenean arcu massa, lacinia in, dictum eu, pulvinar ac, orci. Mauris at diam tempor ante ullamcorper molestie. Ut dapibus eleifend ipsum. Nam dignissim. Donec eContrary to popular belief, Lipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance. The first line of Lipsum, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit get libero. Nullam tincidunt mauris et nibh. Phasellus tempus fermentum diam. Morbi at mauris dapibus lacus malesuada molestie. Morbi vehicula, elit quis posuere mattis, arcu tellus ultrices ante, sit amet rhoncus dolor neque eget lacus. Integer in odio. Ut malesuada mi et nibh. Vestibulum wisi justo, vestibulum a, pretium sit amet, euismod a, augue. Aliquam vitae nisl eu metus dignissim eleifend. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. PrDonec eget libero. 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Nulla sed sapien et wisi condimentum feugiat. Curabitur id augue sed nulla accumsan sollicitudin. Nam ornare justo vitae ante. Donec ligula. Donec felis augue, lacinia ut, vestibulum sit amet, ultricies vestibulum, dolor. Nunc nec nisl. Phasellus blandit tempor augue. Donec arcu orci, adipiscing ac, interdum a, tempus nec, enim. Phasellus placerat iaculis orci. Cras sit amet quam. Sed enim quam, porta quis, aliquet quis, hendrerit ut, sem. Etiam felis tellus, suscipit et, consequat quis, pharetra sit amet, nisl. Aenean arcu massa, lacinia in, dictum eu, pulvinar ac, orci. Mauris at diam tempor ante ullamcorper molestie. Ut dapibus eleifend ipsum. Nam dignissim. onec eget libero. Nullam tincidunt mauris et nibh. Phasellus tempus fermentum diam. Morbi at mauris dapibus lacus malesuada molestie. Morbi vehicula, elit quis posuere mattis, arcu tellus ultrices ante, sit amet rhoncus dolor neque eget lacus. Integer in odio. Ut malesuada mi et nibh. Vestibulum wisi justo, vestibulum a, pretium sit amet, euismod a, augue. Aliquam vitae nisl eu metus dignissim eleifend. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Praesent faucibus tempor tortor. Suspendisse dignissim eleifend dui. Duis adipiscing tellus at nulla. Vivamus mollis, dolor sit amet ornare egestas, risus augue mollis lorem, eget tempus augue augue in libero. Sed tincidunt vestibulum ligula. Vestibulum ut libero eu erat sagittis nonummy. Cum sociis natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus. Sed ut libero. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Cras convallis urna sed enim. Nullam tortor ante, consectetuer eget, nonummy eu, congue a, metus. Mauris ante. Nulla sed sapien et wisi condimentum feugiat. Curabitur id augue sed nulla accumsan sollicitudin. Nam ornare justo vitae ante. Donec ligula. Donec felis augue, lacinia ut, vestibulum sit amet, ultricies vestibulum, dolor. Nunc nec nisl. Phasellus blandit tempor augue. Donec arcu orci, adipiscing ac, interdum a, tempus nec, enim. Phasellus placerat iaculis orci. Cras sit amet quam. Sed enim quam, porta quis, aliquet quis, hendrerit ut, sem. Etiam felis tellus, suscipit et, consequat quis, pharetra sit amet, nisl. Aenean arcu massa, lacinia in, dictum eu, pulvinar ac, orci. Mauris at diam tempor ante ullamcorper molestie. Ut dapibus eleifend ipsum. Nam dignissim.

For what? (1, Offtopic)

Unregistered (584479) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600908)

Is this still going to be only for low-end x86 servers/workstations, or is Sun gonna make linux an option for big iron that traditionally runs Solaris?

Re:For what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601059)

seems like a valid question to me.

again, the moderator who spiked you needs their balls stomped, and then acid poured on them.

Gateway adding Linux support (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6600914)

According to ZDNet [com.com] , Gateway will start offering Linux on Monday on some of its servers as well (though they've picked Red Hat).

will Sun buy SuSE? (2, Interesting)

wfmcwalter (124904) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600916)

It's pretty common to enter into some kind of partnership between two companies as a prelude to a merger or buyout. Sun knows it's behind the times in the Linux front, and building that compitency up by itself is a daunting task. Buying SuSE would radically redress the balance for Sun.

Perhaps the question should be - is there any reason Sun _shouldn't_ buy SusE?

Re:will Sun buy SuSE? (1, Insightful)

SpaceLifeForm (228190) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601002)

Well, I'd rather have SuSE owned by a German company these days than be owned by a U.S. company that could then be influenced by the U.S. courts, and/or U.S. Congress.

Re:will Sun buy SuSE? (2, Interesting)

ElGuapoGolf (600734) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601036)

If anyone will buy SuSE, it'll be IBM. They're already giving SuSE Advanced Server away with some of their pSeries line of servers, and they push people to use SuSE over redhat. When you throw in that Munich deal, where SuSE and IBM worked together, you seem to have a very cozy relationshipo between IBM and SuSE.

Re:will Sun buy SuSE? (1)

SpaceLifeForm (228190) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601113)

Good point. Sun working with SuSE may actually be a good strategic move if IBM is thinking of buying SUN.

The other way around... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601070)

As things are going... it might be the other way around!

Headline News
"SuSE GmBH Buying Sun Microsystems Inc."

Slashdot Moderation Sucks! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601137)

./ Moderation Sucks!

Re:will Sun buy SuSE? (1)

The J Kid (266953) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601075)

Perhaps the question should be - is there any reason Sun _shouldn't_ buy SusE?

Perhaps the question should be - is there any story in which 2 companies anounce working together where a slashdotter _doesn't_ think the one will buy the other?

Please, use your brain, owning SuSE has no stratigic advantage to Sun under current circumstances.

Too late for Sun? (5, Interesting)

antarctican (301636) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600924)

No, I don't think so. They've been fantastic in the setup of the cluster we bought from them, full of these new Sun V60x machines. They even threw in 13 extra nodes at no extra cost for a total of 43 nodes.

What will kill them is their supply chain however. We've been waiting a few weeks for mounting rails for the V60x machines.... however this isn't Sun's fault, they aparently OEM these machines straight from Intel. It's Intel who is now able to supply the part, it's actually effected another server we bought straight from Intel. It seems with their linux initiative they're simply relying on the services of others.... Intel for the x86 machines, RH and SuSe for the linux support. They're becoming a reseller when it comes to linux rather then a producer/supplier.

Then there's the NAS system which has been held up in QA for the past 3 months.

They have some great products coming out and good linux knowledge and service, however until they streamline their supply chain they might be in trouble. The rep told me they're putting quality as the top priority, however it seems to have created more problems then good. This new 3310 NAS system was suppose to begin shipping in May.... it's now August....

That will be there downfall, not meeting ship dates. They have the knowledge and inovation to survive, they just need to ride their hardware guys' asses a little harder.

Re:Too late for Sun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601206)

Excellent point -- we've had similar problems from sun resllers.

It's to the point now that we try to put our PO's in a quarter before we need the hardware -- which is totally unacceptable. We don't have that problem with Dell.

I've been very happy with everthing we've purchased from Sun -- but if they can't get their supply chain fixed we'll simply have to find another vendor.

Let the Sun Bashing commence (1)

I_am_the_man (694208) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600939)

Sun seems to get a lot of harsh criticism here on Slashdot for some reason. IBM seems to always get a pass or dare I say is a Slashdot darling. You would think Sun was Microsoft. I wonder why this is? I cannot wait to see what comes of the latest Sun Slashdot entry.

Re:Let the Sun Bashing commence (2, Insightful)

BFKrew (650321) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600949)

My guess is that it's Java...

Why hit Sun? (2, Insightful)

junkgoof (607894) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601045)

Sun does some great stuff, and they have great support, but they can't decided what to do in terms of business. x86, linux, CDE, solaris, SCO-meddling, java...
Sun tries so hard to damage M$ that they hurt themselves, their friends, and their clients.
That said I'm a Solaris admin, and I like Sun hardware and software in spite of the Applesque pricing (yes that HD is $400, yes it is physically identical to the $80 PC drive, no you can't get the mounting bracket separately).

It is too late for Sun. (5, Interesting)

reporter (666905) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600944)

The revenue of Sun Microsystems in the quarter ended June 2003 fell sharply from the revenue in the same quarter of 2002. Please read "Sun Earnings Trail Expectations [com.com] ". The revenue fell far short of Wall Street expectations, and the stock promptly crashed.

Linux brings no value to Sun and actually destroys Sun's profits. Why? For years, Sun has hidden its performance-poor servers behind its Solaris operating system. Sun focused its marketing message on "the whole system" and said that performance is only one part of the system value. Most of that system value outside of simple performance came from Solaris.

Now, with Linux, the Sun salesperson can no longer argue that the operating system has some intrinsic value over the operation system of, say, an IBM machine. The IBM machine and the Sun machine are running the same operating system, Linux. Then, the comparison of the two machines comes down to performance. In other words, the customers will be forced to look at the quality of the basic hardware. In this area, Sun falls woefully short. Look at the results for the ""SPEC benchmark [spec.org] " or the "TPC-C benchmark [tpc.org] ".

Re:It is too late for Sun. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601081)

This looks eerily like a modified Apple or *BSD troll, you know.

Re:It is too late for Sun. (4, Insightful)

n3rd (111397) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601146)

The revenue of Sun Microsystems in the quarter ended June 2003 fell sharply from the revenue in the same quarter of 2002

There is no mention of this in the article you posted.

The revenue fell far short of Wall Street expectations, and the stock promptly crashed.

"Crashed"? Come on, quit with the exaggerations. Look at this graph [yahoo.com] . Thus far they have sunk $1 per share or ~20%. When your stock value is that low it's easy to lose a large percentage over a small amount.

I find it strange that Red Hat's stock is higher than Sun's and yet Sun brings in billions every quarter and has 6.6 billion in the bank. I think it says a lot about the relavance of using stock prices as a note for discussion.

For years, Sun has hidden its performance-poor servers behind its Solaris operating system.

Please, tell us about your experience with Sun. Have you administered it and if so for how long? Are you a user and if so for how long?

They have one of the most stable OSes out there, superb hardware and some of the best support which I'm sure amounts to nothing.

The IBM machine and the Sun machine are running the same operating system, Linux. Then, the comparison of the two machines comes down to performance

Once again, you seem ill informed. The Linux offerings are on x86 servers, not SPARCs. With x86 hardware there aren't many ways to differentiate one box from another at a hardware level.

In other words, the customers will be forced to look at the quality of the basic hardware.

You forgot cost and what's most important to companies, support.

or the "TPC-C benchmark"

Sun hasn't submitted a TPC-C benchmark since late 2001, and it was on old hardware. This may or may not be a good thing, but you cannot tell.

Before you keep bashing Sun I would seriously consider doing two things: Getting out into the real world to see how many people trust and use Sun/Solaris and do some research.

Until Sun is unseated as #1 in the UNIX server market [sun.com] (as reported by Gartner) and has less than it's 6.6 billion in the bank [yahoo.com] along with 13 billion in total assets I don't think Sun is too concerned.

Your post is nothing more than the often repeated "Sun is dying" chant that is not backed up by any relavant facts.

Re:It is too late for Sun. (0, Flamebait)

Suppafly (179830) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601261)

Apparently interesting has now come to mean troll.

Don't question my authority (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6600946)

or put me in the dock

Astonishing (1)

Sean80 (567340) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600947)

Although this sort of thing has happened at Sun before, it's an astonishing admission of defeat, in my books.

Their entire company is based on big iron using Solaris. Given that the prevailing trend is to run Linux on lots of small Intel boxes, how can this not shatter their most basic business model?

Given the way Java is going nowadays, I agree, how can Sun not be doomed?

2 flavors of Linux on Sun X-86 Servers. (2, Interesting)

revans (253178) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601162)

Who says the ENTIRE company is based on ONLY selling big-iron? Just like IBM, Sun sells big-iron, and smaller-iron, and software. Sun also sells this stuff through partners.

So now Sun re-sells two flavors of Linux for its X-86 servers: RedHat and, now, Suse.
Sun is simply giving their customers a new choice.

Running an increasing number of small Intel boxen requires increasing support costs. As needs increase, switching to fewer more powerful big-iron boxen can help to flatten support costs. Seems like Sun is positioning itself to take advantage of that trend.

Given that Java still seems to be growing, so much so, that the IBM folks seem to be obsessed with controlling the standard, I don't see how Sun cannot succeed.

Re:Astonishing (1)

Bo Diddly Squat (688214) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601178)

Did you read a different article than me ?

People who need the Sparc/Solaris boxes will still buy them.
That won't change because they can now suddenly run SuSE on Sun's x86 servers.

Re:Astonishing (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601212)

Although this sort of thing has happened at Sun before, it's an astonishing admission of defeat, in my books.

And by your logic IBM admitted defeat by offering Linux (as opposed to AIX). Same with HP and HP-UX.

It's too bad your emotional biases get in the way of a logical argument.

Re:Astonishing (2, Insightful)

Decaff (42676) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601254)

"Given the way Java is going nowadays"...
Java is the most widely used programming language and is still growing at an amazing rate. Sun sell licences for enterprise java and make a lot of money doing it.

Sun have always used an interesting strategy to open up markets for their products and services. They promote open standards, and even donate technologies to the IT community (such as NFS). Sun virtually invented the idea of the desktop Workstation. The idea being that the bigger the market for open standards, Unix, Java whatever, the bigger portion Sun can take. The more people use Linux, the bigger the Unix-ish market is a whole, and that benefits sun. There will be more users who could want to migrate to a more enterprise-level Unix version.

Safe move (2, Interesting)

MC68040 (462186) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600955)

This was most likely the safest move for SUN's linux solution and idea, if they team up with someone else they more or less just sell an already existing product with modifications, thus legal responsibilities change and they got more behind their back with a old and stable Linux distribution.

And SuSE is most likely 'closed' enough already for SUN to consider it as a safe solution compared to the dangerous ;) open source world. (Pointer: you have to pay for suse).

Re:Safe move (1)

ElGuapoGolf (600734) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601021)

Personally, I *pay* for SuSE. It's good enough that I feel it's worth it.

However, there are tons of people who use the SuSE ftp install. They're getting SuSE, and they're not paying for it.

The only thing you can consider closed about SuSE is some of the software they ship (realplayer, mainactor, flash, etc). But then again, I suspect a lot of people go out and install those applications on whatever distro they use anyhow.

Re:Safe move (0)

LostCauz (121686) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601056)

damn it i posted this first, but i only hit preview, so i hit back a few times and then submit and now i suck :(

You don't have to pay for SuSE (0)

LostCauz (121686) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601044)

You can do an FTP install.

Nice article but its missing alot (4, Interesting)

Crashmarik (635988) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600956)

The reuter story highlights the difference between information and knowledge.

The reporter completely misssed pricing issues, platforms that sun would be selling it for, the support that would be entailed with the license, ETC.

What is truly missing is there is no comment on the SUN-REDHAT, SUN-SUSE licensing vis a vis the SCO suit and licensing. We know, to the extent that SCO's statements may be believed that sun pretty much has a license to do whatever they want with unix. The question is if they sell/distribute a linux under the GPL does that spill over ? Is it protected ? If I buy redhat from sun is it covered by SUNS rights, if it is how does that affect the GPL that comes with the distribution ?

IT would have been wonderfull if the article instead of just being a parrot had of addressed the questions.

What's the point? (4, Insightful)

Trurl's Machine (651488) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600967)

OK guys - I know that questions like this most often are modded down as "flamebait" or "troll", but I HONESTLY want to know, what is the point now of buying a non-x86 and non-PowerPC workstation. Mod me down if you please, but also mod up an answer that would provide an insightful, informative and interesting explanation. I mean, I understand it for the early 1990's. When "Jurassic Park" was a big hit at the movies, the sitiuation was pretty obvious - you had these single-user, single-tasking OS'es like Windows 3.11 or MacOS 7 on one hand, and those powerful Unix boxen on the other hand. It was obvious, that you need a special dedicated machine to run high-end graphics tasks and another machine just to read the MS Office documents or play Doom. But now - what is the freakin' point, if you can run MS Office and all the latest games on a high-end personal computer (be it the PowerMac G5 or some x86 machine) and ALSO have your favorite Unix flavor running on it like charm? Where is the market niche for a workstation incompatible with the majority of commercial software?

Re:What's the point? (4, Insightful)

bobintetley (643462) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601047)

One word: Quality Would you trust your mission critical application to some cheap Intel chip with bog standard non-parity DDRAM and low quality components? Alright, you can swap it out for another if it fails, but how much time will that take and to business, time is money. x86 might be cheap, but if you want hardware you can really rely on that's going to operate without problems for years, you buy a Sun box.

Re:What's the point? (5, Interesting)

niko9 (315647) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601154)

I honestly don't understand your reply. I'm not trolling but you said "cheap Intel chip"

Is that how Intel's CPU's are thought of in the computing indusrty?

I just purchased an Intel Pentium 4 3.0Ghz and specifically chose an Intel 875PBZ board for it's stability and reliabilty. With The P4's heat spreader and inergrated heat protection, I consider it a high quality product.

After nearly 3 years of worry free opertaion with a dual Pentium box running almost 24 hours a day without so much as a hiccup on Debian Linux, I thought I made a wise choise with buying Intel.

Can anybody shed some light?

Re:What's the point? (3, Insightful)

I_am_the_man (694208) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601192)

...running almost 24 hours a day...

You proved his point right there. *Almost* is something that someone buying Sun does not want to consider. Almost is not good enough.

Re:What's the point? (1)

I_am_the_man (694208) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601072)

The whole reason for buying any hardware is applications. If you applications run on Solaris only (or preferably; as this does happen) then that is what you buy.

Out of curiosity I priced out Sun's entry workstation (SunBlade 150) and the SunPCIII Pro Coproccessor Card (basically PC on a card with AMD Athlon XP 1600+ 256MB PC2100 onboard memory (SODIMM) 24 bit graphics) and it came out to be $2090. Not a bad price for two machines in one.

Re:What's the point? (1)

wkjel (654114) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601147)

If you're just looking for a general workstation, the answer is there isn't much of a point.

What you're missing is that workstations haven't been Sun's main line of business for many years. They sell servers for corporate functions, like running very large Oracle databases for transaction processing. Their main selling point isn't raw speed, or Solaris or any other single factor. Like Apple in the desktop world, they focus on integration. They try to make everything work together well. Even if they don't always succeed at this, if you buy from Sun you generally get good, stable, reliable and ultimately cost-effective solution for general business processing.

Re:What's the point? (1)

cartman (18204) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601215)

I HONESTLY want to know, what is the point now of buying a non-x86 and non-PowerPC workstation.

There's still a large body of software for engineering and scientific disciplines that runs only on Sparc/Solaris. This software and userbase are left over from the days when RISC machines were far faster than x86 machines.

Everyone is moving away from Sun workstations, but these migrations take time. Notice that Sun's hardware sales are down 20% year-on-year. Sun already realizes that its workstation business is doomed in the long run.

Sun is going to make a valiant attempt to rescue it's high-end server business by employing a radically different approach to MPU design -- "throughput computing." Sun hopes that this new approach will allow it to surpass the performance of Itanium or POWER boxes on commercial workloads. If "throughput computing" turns out not to be everything it's cracked up to be, then the Sun/Solaris platform is doomed and Sun will have to transition to a different business model, perhaps becoming an enterprise software company.

Warm up to Linux? (0, Flamebait)

tji (74570) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600977)

I wouldn't say they have exactly warmed up to Linux. They continue their schizophrenic act, and can't decide whether it's good for them or bad.

THe half-assed strategy doesn't say a lot for their executive management.

And, while doing this, they have been none too subtle in their spreading of FUD around the SCO thing. They keep making statements about Sun/Solaris being the safe bet, being glad that SCO can't revoke their license, and various other statements meant to create doubt in customers use AIX or Linux.

And, that's fine.. if they want to play the FUD game, and expect their customers to still trust them, then good luck. But, don't play both sides of the game, spread Linux FUD, and sell your own hardware to benefit from Linux?!?

Is this new? (1, Informative)

edunbar93 (141167) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600984)

While I'm happy to see Sun's finally beginning to warm up to Linux (aka if you can't beat 'em, join 'em strategy) I wonder if this is too late for Sun?

What do you mean, "finally warming up to Linux?" They've been selling it in their Cobalt products [cobalt.com] for years.

Cool (1)

Nonillion (266505) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600988)

I am currently running SuSE 7.3 on a Sun Ultra Enterprise 2. While it works fine there are some problems with the sound server locking up when system sounds are played. Also the power management is something to be desired. Hopefully with this alliance,linux will just get better :)

Sun's strategy is BS. (1, Troll)

YinYang69 (560918) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600991)

Sun doesn't give two piles of crap about Linux. They have been hurting so bad financially that they're hoping to start making money on Solaris.

Their strategy? Pick a popular flavor of Linux to sell with their hardware. Hook them on the H/W, then upsell the "more powerful" Solaris.

They're just using Linux as the free enterprise OS drug to get potential customers hooked, then sell them the expensive stuff and keep 'em locked.

Re:Sun's strategy is BS. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601238)

Shut up you ignorant chink.

we can only hope (0, Flamebait)

Trailer Trash (60756) | more than 10 years ago | (#6600997)

I wonder if this is too late for Sun?

We can only hope. Seriously, after they initially jumped on the SCO FUD in order to push Solaris, I couldn't care less what happens to them.

Re:we can only hope (1)

I_am_the_man (694208) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601157)

They are a business. Did you expect them to not use a golden opportunity to profit from a less than ideal situation? They spent the money to make sure they were on solid legal ground and now they are glad they did. It amazes me that people bash Sun when they struggle to do anything right for their bottom line and then get mad when Sun uses perfectly sound leverage to try to gain market share with a tactic that may hit home to the beloved operating system.

Re:we can only hope (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601250)

There is selling and there is negative selling. Seasoned salespeople know that bashing the competition ultimately (sometimes very quickly), drags everyone down in a negative spiral. Good marketing teams accentuate the positive, because it is good for business.

Bright sun (2, Insightful)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601009)

"I wonder if this is too late for Sun"

Waddya mean?

* They have StarOffice, based on the GPL'd OpenOffice; they have a great future.
*Java (that pesky little language) was doomed too but still hangs around, much like Basic, Pascal and Visual Basic
*Solaris still has an unbeaten reputation for carrier grade quality in telecom compared to Linux, yet...
*They have their own hardware too, even if Opterons...

SUN is better than its reputation here, I believe.

Re:Bright sun (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601139)

SUn makes a shitload more money from there $20-100k sun servers. They are losing to wintel and lintel.

Sun keeps laying off and laying off and hiring Indians just to stay alive. Solaris on intel is considered dead thanks to premature killing of it earlier and Java is free so they tet no money from it.

Sun is in trouble.

Re:Bright sun (1)

Decaff (42676) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601271)

Sun have just re-released Solaris on Intel.

Java is free, but sun makes a lot of money licencing J2EE.

Sun is doing fine.

Great! That means they'll... (5, Interesting)

Santabutthead (675941) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601094)

..be giving legal guarantees because I'm sure they wouldn't want to go against the CEO's [infoconomy.com] words.

Nice Microsoft advertisement (3, Interesting)

FatAssBastard (530195) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601102)

...right below the article for Linux being sold by Sun. "Microsoft Windows 2003 Server: Do more with less". That's rich (is it ironic? I can never tell...)

I think Sun is just hedging their bets here. Plus, they can offer 'immunity' since they have the license from SCO. I know, I know, it's all crap (the SCO issue), but they can trumpet the fact that they have a proper license to all the code no matter what. None of us gives a shiat, but some PHB's might find it puts them at ease.

Sun Fu (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601106)

I see this as a good thing. Sun doesn't make their own x86 kit but neither does Dell or H-Paq or anyone else (with regard to supply chain problems).

If the suits in a corporation are familiar with Sun they are going to feel good with Linux coming from Sun on Sun gear. Same Sun name, same Sun support, etc.

Sun's challenge is going to be to convince me why I should buy their x86 servers running Linux rather than a Dell or H-Paq box running the same flavor of Linux.

This is not a zero sum game. There does not have to be a winner and a loser. Solaris/SPARC make sense for certain things and Linux and BSD make sense for other things. Each is a better option than settling for Microsoft churn.

Sun should give up on sparc (2, Informative)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601116)

First off the versions of Linux provided are for some amd blade servers. Sun is experimenting at this stage to see where the market is.

The sparcIII was years late and already obsolete when it hit the market. SparcIV has been delayed which also gets in the way of the upcomming sparcV which supposed to come out late next year.

The sparcIV supposed to be just as fast as a pIV and a sparcV is going to be even faster. However by the time the sparcIV comes next year it will already be obsolete as well.

Also sparcs are expensive.

My solution would be to switch to AMD64. They are cheap, really fast, and Solaris has already been ported. They can keep their expensive bus technology and only use the cpu's in exchange from sparc's. Or even better just use hypertransport and reduce the costs.

They should also look at the powerpc970 and 980'd. Unfortunately no version of solaris exist for those platforms. AMD64 would probably be a better bet.

Sun's are expensive and underpowered. Commidity hardware makes sense.

Sun (2, Interesting)

rihock (680776) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601119)

To be honest, I think partnering with SuSe and RH is a good thing. The Sun version of Linux never really took off, so why not partner? Sun makes great hardware, and they are now making great software as well (email, directory, calendar, identity, portal, app server) that run great. I don't think the press gives them enough credit for the effort.

SuSE == bad (0, Troll)

Jeffrey Baker (6191) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601164)

What's the story with people shipping SuSE Linux Enterprise Server? This is, in my experience, an extremely bad, half-baked operating system. I ordered two SMP Opteron machines, and they came with this dreck installed. The MySQL server that came with it habitually segfaulted, and the PostgreSQL was using POSIX IPC instead of spinlocks, which tended to induce greater than 100000 context switches per second, and made PostgreSQL look slower than grepping through CSV files. It was obvious that no real testing of this operating system had been performed.

The kernel was described by the developer of same as "ancient", however the software update mechanism in SuSE didn't offer anything newer. As a matter of fact, for the 6 weeks I allowed SuSE to live on the machine, the software update program didn't offer to update anything, despite a number of security updates available from upstream developers. To a user or administrator spoiled by Debian and apt-get this updater was totally unacceptable.

Anyway, I just don't understand why everyone is rushing to ship SuSE. It's the second-worst Linux I've used (ahead of Red Hat).

Re:SuSE == bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601241)

Sounds alot like SCO openServer.

Smaller Business Apps (1)

ratfynk (456467) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601191)

It is the Citrix lock that they are after, with Munich going Suse alot of small town and city hall ma and pa people are taking notice. Hey why the hell should we spend 4 or 5 million on Win servers when we can get the same hardware and support at less cost with Linux. It is happening all over Europe and it will happen all over North America. The target of Suse and Sun is the MS small intranet market which in reality is bigger than the internet. Boy /. readers can sure be blind to anything other than the server side net apps, most of them wouldn't know a thin client from a fat pipe!

You people have really missed the point. (5, Insightful)

EoRaptor (4083) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601200)

1. Sun offers 'big name' support contract for Linux.

2. Fortune 1000 companies require this type of backing on any new 'deployment'.

3. Sun now has an 'in' for their sales and support team.

4. Eventually, the solution to further growth will be something linux is 'unable' to do.

5. Experience with Sun, means Solaris is a natural upgrade choice.

6. Profit!

Sun doesn't care at all, they'd support windows if they could figure out some way to convince people that Solaris was the natural upgrade path from that. Linux will always have the 'hobby' stigma attached (mainly becuase Sun will always be whispering in the right ears. After all, they have access.) and thus Solaris is an easy sell, along with the dedicated, lock in hardware for it. Sun can't lose, even if they cna't upsell the client, they have still made a truckload of money on the support contract.

Grow up everyone, Sun isn't run by technologists, and doesn't give alick about Linux (or Solaris for that matter). What they want is money, and this is a means to that end. It may align with some peoples goals to promote Linux, but don't get confused about what Sun is really doing.

Well imagine that (1)

TCaM (308943) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601234)

a corporation acting in the interests of profit. Isn't this what they are supposed to be doing?

Now what I really want to know is how this fits in with the whole SCO debacle and the special golden child status that Sun apparently has with SCO.

Why not DEBIAN?? (1, Interesting)

cies (318343) | more than 10 years ago | (#6601224)

Can anyone of the slashdot crow tell me why big companies DONT GO WITH DEBIAN??

Is it becouse of the free nature of Debian -- they can't buy 'm out if it's time for it?
[the free nature of Debian must also have it's pro's right?]

Anyone?

Cheers,
Cies.

blah (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6601268)

blah
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