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SCO Calls IBM Countersuit "Unsubstantiated Allegations"

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the kettle-is-black-black-black dept.

Caldera 972

dacarr writes "Yahoo currently hosts a press release from SCO that basically calls for IBM to "move away from the GPL"." Lycoris tries to dodge the flood of idiocy from Utah. Another non-programmer has seen SCO's presentation, and without attempting to verify the facts through his own research, reported on it. One reader buys a SCO license. SCO justifies their continuing illegal distribution of the Linux kernel.

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972 comments

GNAA EARLY POST SYSTEM (fuck SCO and AMD) (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646281)

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Re:GNAA EARLY POST SYSTEM (fuck SCO and AMD) (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646315)

using Joyce's bot? I thought he doesn't like you!

Re:GNAA EARLY POST SYSTEM (fuck SCO and AMD) (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646362)

sorry dude, none of the GNAA members that I know of are using any kind of automation to post the GNAA FP's, me included.

This is all result of hard manual labor.
Bots are for wimps like you.

First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646294)

This post generated by first post robot. My l4|V|3 coding skillz are now l337. Unless, I FAIL IT, of course.

Re:First Post (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646376)

you got it from that joyce fuck didn't you...you didn't program shit.

Re:First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646416)

I programmed it myself. It's written using WebCore, which is based off KHTML, from Apple. WebCore is the r0xOrs, it is not teh sux0rs. Apple is teh rox0rs too.

Re:First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646544)

KHTML is from KDE, Apple is using it in their browser.

Re:First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646397)

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Re:First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646477)

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YUO FUXORING FAIL0R IT!!! YUO IS TEH SUX0R!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646545)

YUO IS JUTS TEH BIG FAIL0RE!!

YUO SHUDE DO A SUISID AND END YUOR LIVINGS CUZ IT AM WATSING FOOD FOR STRAVING NEGROS!!!

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SCO is to sue Novell over Unix rights (1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646295)

Not content with already having issued IBM with a lawsuit, SCO is to
sue Novell for illegally placing UNIX code in Novell Netware.
According to SCO CEO Darl McBride , Novell never owned UNIX's patents
or copyrights in the first place.

In the release McBride said, "Novell continues to say that it owns the
UNIX System V patents, yet it must know that it does not. A simple
review of U.S. Patent Office records reveals that SCO owns those
patents." Further, "We believe it unlikely that Novell can demonstrate
that it has any ownership interest whatsoever in those copyrights
because we purchased these rights in August 1995 directly from IBM"

Also this morning, in SCO's 2nd quarter earning call, Jack Messman SCO
CEO said that there's no mention of copyright and patents in the
Novell law suit and that contract issues are really what the IBM law
suit is about. At the same time, though, he admitted that SCO had been
talking with IBM over UNIX IP issues and that Novell's 1990 purchase
agreement of UNIX from IBM was 'confused' on the issue of UNIX's
patents and copyrights.

Bruce Perens, director of Software in the Public Interest, a
non-profit, Open Source development organization, says, "SCO's brief
reply to Novell explicitly acknowledges that SCO owns the UNIX
copyright."

McBride said that SCO believes that the company owns the UNIX
copyrights and that all four of the people who signed the
contract-none of whom are still with Novell or SCO-thought at the time
that the intent was to transfer copyright. So, "SCO has the absolute
right to UNIX's copyright" and we're confident on how a judge will
come down."

Gary Schuster, Novell's senior VP of communications responded to this
claim by saying, "SCO will find out in court the the true force of our
vengeance - we shall wreak havoc."

Re:SCO is to sue Novell over Unix rights (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646488)

"and that Novell's 1990 purchase agreement of UNIX from IBM was 'confused' on the issue of UNIX'spatents and copyrights."

WTF? IBM never owned Unix. AT&T did.

Re:SCO is to sue Novell over Unix rights (1)

Daniel Boisvert (143499) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646517)

Uh, hey mods! The parent isn't informative, it's FICTION!!!

-1 troll (5, Insightful)

Sanity (1431) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646300)

If I didn't know better I would say that this entire press release is a troll - and a pretty unconvincing troll at that:
We view IBM's counterclaim filing today as an effort to distract attention from its flawed Linux business model.
Flawed business model? Relative to what - SCO's ingenious strategy of using rediculous claims of IP infringement to pump and dump their shares while refusing to publicly disclose what the IP infringement actually is? Yup - SCO knows all about flawed business models.
If IBM were serious about addressing the real problems with Linux, it would offer full customer indemnification and move away from the GPL license.
Guh?! Since when is the GPL license the problem - even if SCO's claims did prove to be true? And how exactly does IBM "move away" from the software license under which their primary operating system is distributed?
As the stakes continue to rise in the Linux battles, it becomes increasingly clear that the core issue is bigger than SCO (Nasdaq: SCOX - News), Red Hat, or even IBM
What - that a company can get away with lying about Linux in order to pump up their share price? Yeah, that is a problem that is bigger than SCO, Red Hat, and IBM, but perhaps [kuro5hin.org] they won't get away with it after all.
The core issue is about the value of intellectual property in an Internet age.
Would this be the same Internet that largely relies on Free Software?
In a strange alliance, IBM and the Free Software Foundation have lined up on the same side of this argument in support of the GPL.
Normally when different groups line up on the same side of an issue it suggests that there is something to it.
SCO has shipped these products for many years, in some cases for nearly two decades, and this is the first time that IBM has ever raised an issue about patent infringement in these products.
And how long was SCO shipping Linux without raising an issue about IP infringement?

These guys have some serious nerve - I hope they get put behind bars for this crap.

Re:-1 troll (5, Interesting)

andrewl6097 (633663) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646361)

Flawed business model? Relative to what - SCO's ingenious strategy of using rediculous claims of IP infringement to pump and dump their shares while refusing to publicly disclose what the IP infringement actually is? Yup - SCO knows all about flawed business models.
By definition, this isn't a flawed business model. SCO is making incredible amounts of cash. It's unethical, but since when did big businessmen care about ethics when they have a money printing press like this?

Re:-1 troll (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646451)

By definition, a business model that destroys the business is flawed. It may be a successful get-rich-quick scheme for the key decision makers, but it is not a successful business model.

For a primer on the distinction, go talk to some former Enron employees. (Not senior management. Employees.)

SCO vs OJ (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646307)

This has really became the Nerd version of the OJ trial.

Re:SCO vs OJ (4, Informative)

Hrothgar The Great (36761) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646472)

This has really became the Nerd version of the OJ trial.

I see this guy has already been modded Flamebait, but he is so right about this. What's really messed up though, is how ONLY people who read slashdot seem to know anything about it. I'm serious - I've tried to bring up SCO's situation a couple of times and no one knows what the hell I'm talking about. Even other programmers where I work have no clue that anything has happened at all.

This shit is trouble, mark my words. The guys at the top of companies don't read slashdot either - keep that in mind. I guarantee you that large companies that use Linux are pissing their fucking pants over this thing right now, considering the fact that the execs are going to have no fundamental grasp of the reality of the situation.

sco ... teh suck (-1, Redundant)

cHiphead (17854) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646308)

Sco: wah wah wah blah blah blah
Everyone else: oh look.. a bug... *squash*

*chuckle* (3, Funny)

mao che minh (611166) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646312)

SCO Calls IBM Countersuit "Unsubstantiated Allegations"?

Oh boy. Monty Python couldn't keep you in stitches longer then McBride. This guy is one of the world's greatest comedians.

Re:*chuckle* (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646470)

per dictionary.com [reference.com] :

unsubstantiated allegation adj: 1. unsupported by evidence; 2. a claim made by a Republican U.S. Senator or by a UNIX vendor by the name of SCO, characterized by detailed fantasy, delusions and self-importance absent material foundation [syn: uncorroborated nonsense].

Dr StrangeSCOve (5, Funny)

babbage (61057) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646318)

Darl McBride's "surprise" at RedHat's suit is almost like a scene out of Dr Strangelove [imdb.com] ...
[The President calls the RedHat Premier.]

President Darl McBride: [to RedHat] Hello? ... Ah ... I can't hear too well. Do you suppose you could turn the music down just a little? ... Oh-ho, that's much better. ... yeah ... huh ... yes ... Fine, I can hear you now, Dmitri. ... Clear and plain and coming through fine. ... I'm coming through fine, too, eh? ... Good, then ... well, then, as you say, we're both coming through fine. ... Good. ... Well, it's good that you're fine and ... and I'm fine. ... I agree with you, it's great to be fine. ... a-ha-ha-ha-ha ... Now then, Dmitri, you know how we've always talked about the possibility of something going wrong with the Suit. ... The Suit, Dmitri. ... The legal suit! ... Well now, what happened is ... ah ... one of our legal staff, he had a sort of ... well, he went a little funny in the head ... you know ... just a little ... funny. And, ah ... he went and did a silly thing. ... Well, I'll tell you what he did. He ordered his staff ... to attack your industry... Ah... Well, let me finish, Dmitri. ... Let me finish, Dmitri. ... Well listen, how do you think I feel about it?! ... Can you imagine how I feel about it, Dmitri? ... Why do you think I'm calling you? Just to say hello? ... Of course I like to speak to you! ... Of course I like to say hello! ... Not now, but anytime, Dmitri. I'm just calling up to tell you something terrible has happened... It's a friendly call. Of course it's a friendly call. ... Listen, if it wasn't friendly ... you probably wouldn't have even got it. ... They will not reach their courts for at least another year. ... I am ... I am positive, Dmitri. ... Listen, I've been all over this with your legal representative. It is not a trick. ... Well, I'll tell you. We'd like to give your legal staff a complete run-down on the complaints, the allegations, and the insinuations in the lawsuits. ... Yes! I mean i-i-i-if we're unable to recall the suits, then ... I'd say that, ah ... well, ah ... we're just gonna have to help you destroy them, Dmitri. ... I know they're our boys. ... All right, well listen now. Who should we call? ... Who should we call, Dmitri? The ... wha-whe, the People... you, sorry, you faded away there. ... The People's Free Software Foundation. ... Where is that, Dmitri? ... In Boston. ... Right. ... Yes. ... Oh, you'll call them first, will you? ... Uh-huh ... Listen, do you happen to have the phone number on you, Dmitri? ... Whe-ah, what? I see, just ask for Boston information. ... Ah-ah-eh-uhm-hm ... I'm surprised, too, Dmitri. ... I'm very surprised. ... All right, you're more surprised than I am, but I am as surprised as well. ... I am as surprised as you are, Dmitri! Don't say that you're more surprised than I am, because I'm capable of being just as surprised as you are. ... So we're both surprised, all right?! ... All right.

SCO: The Shadow Enemy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646325)

Wow, they are like, the ultimate shadow. They are saying the same thing IBM is saying, that the claims that SCO's claims are unsubstantiated, are unsubstantiated. Wheeeee, how long can this go on? Oh, and I feel that's just great, that a GNAA got in before a subscriber to slashdot did. Just the thing I like to see after a story heh...not

A Python View of Latest Allegation from SCO (3, Funny)

grahamkg (5290) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646328)

pot.kettle(black)

Re:A Python View of Latest Allegation from SCO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646515)

Wouldn't it be pot(kettle.black), as it is in fact the pot calling the kettle black, rather than the pot kettle calling black?

Money for Nothing - redux (5, Funny)

Tsu Dho Nimh (663417) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646329)

Normally I don't repost, but I wrote this too late in the last posting cycle and I want a +5 Funny rating.

Money For Nothing

Now look at them SCO-yo's that's not the way to do it
They say we're infringing on their IP.
It ain't workin' the way they try to do it
They're getting nowhere, lawsuits ain't free.
No it ain't workin', not the way they do it
Lemme tell ya them guys are dumb
They gots a lawsuit from them RedHat people
And a 'nuther from that IBM.

You gotta buy their UNIX license
Or else they gonna sue you guys
They gotta keep that FUD stream flowing
They gotta keep that stock price high.

See little Darl with the options and delusions
He's got no braincells under his hair
That little Darl wants his own jet airplane
Little Darl wants to be a millionaire

You gotta buy their UNIX license
Or else they gonna sue you guys
They gotta keep the FUD stream flowing
They gotta keep that stock price high.

I shoulda learned to play the market
I shoulda learned to pump and dump
Look at them, they got all those profits
Man I could have some fun
Darl's up there in Utah making lawyer noises
Bangin' out lawsuits like a chimpanzee
It ain't workin' the way they try to do it
They're getting nowhere, lawsuits ain't free.

I have nothing to add. (1)

eddy (18759) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646331)

That press-release was pathetic. Probably Darl "Mangina-to-be" McBride wrote it himself, since the money to pay the lawyers are running out.

Check the stock today BTW, someone's manipulating it [yahoo.com] .

Wha??? (5, Funny)

DaveHowe (51510) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646333)

SCO is accusing someone else of filing a lawsuit containing Unsubstantiated Allegations? This is from the Onion isn't it?

Actually, this is pretty funny (0, Funny)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646339)

These are almost the *exact* words that everyone predicted they'd use! Maybe Darl is just a modified Eliza-bot? :P

My thoughts... (4, Interesting)

garcia (6573) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646341)

SCO has shipped these products for many years, in some cases for nearly two decades, and this is the first time that IBM has ever raised an issue about patent infringement in these products.

And SCO has been supporting Linux for quite a number of years, and still has the 2.4.13 kernel sources available on their site. Amazingly enough, they haven't removed that from their site, allowing for Linux to be used free of SCO prior to and including version 2.4.13.

If IBM wants customers to accept the GPL risk...

It is now even more obvious that SCO feels that the GPL is too weak to stand up in court. I think that IBM has already planned for this and is prepared to prove that the GPL will hold up. I just find it extremely interesting that SCO supported the GPL up until 2.4.13 and no FANTASTIC strides have been made since that point in the code that *we think* they are trying to claim is their IP.

I guess that SCO is basically screwed unless they can some how force the GPL to break-down in court.

Just my worthless .02

Re:My thoughts... (1)

EpsCylonB (307640) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646513)

I guess that SCO is basically screwed unless they can some how force the GPL to break-down in court.


Dya think they know something we don't ?

Try again... (5, Informative)

Surak (18578) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646541)

2.4.19. They're claiming 2.4.18 and later is infringeing.


NcFTP 3.1.5 (Oct 13, 2002) by Mike Gleason (ncftp@ncftp.com).
ncftp> o ftp.sco.com
Connecting to 216.250.140.126...
ftp.caldera.com Ready.
Logging in...
Welcome to SCO's FTP site!

This site hosts UNIX software patches, device drivers and supplements
from SCO.

To access Skunkware and Supplemental Open Source Packages, please
connect to ftp2.caldera.com.

** Please read the following export notice **
Please note that the electronic transfer of this data to a destination
outside of the United States constitutes an export (as defined by the
U.S. Bureau of Export Administration) and is authorized ONLY to the end
user. Any subsequent re-exportation of this data requires that the end
user obtain an additional export license. Also note that it is illegal
to re-route Caldera product to Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea,
Sudan or Syria and that you must file a special license if you intend
to re-route goods to the embargoed regions of Serbia or the Taliban
controlled areas of Afghanistan. Placement of this order constitutes
an agreement to comply with these stipulations.
Anonymous access granted, restrictions apply.
Logged in to ftp.sco.com.
ncftp / > cd /pub/scolinux/server/4.0/updates/SRPMS/
ncftp ...rver/4.0/updates/SRPMS > ls kern*
kernel-source-2.4.19.SuSE-106.nosrc.rpm
ke rnel-source-2.4.19.SuSE-133.nosrc.rpm
kernel-sour ce-2.4.19.SuSE-152.nosrc.rpm
kernel-source-2.4.19 .SuSE-82.nosrc.rpm
ncftp ...rver/4.0/updates/SRPMS >


Which means that regardless of whether or not "SCO feels that the GPL is too weak to stand up in court," is moot. They have accepted and continue to accept it's terms by having this Linux kernel source code on their FTP server.

Any code in kernel 2.4.19 that is 'infringing' is actuall not, because SCO knows about so-called 'infringing' code in there, yet they continue to distribute it, meaning they have effectively GPLed whatever code is in there, regardless of who actually put it in there (most likely, according to various sources, a Caldera employee!)

Re:My thoughts... (4, Informative)

SanLouBlues (245548) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646558)

Even if they do show that the GPL is unenforcable and their code is in the kernel, that would mean that they have no rights to any of Linux except their code. Everything else would go back to "all rights reserved" and they would not be able to license the whole shebang. Just their lines.

Er, what IBM counterclaim? (1)

squashed (664265) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646345)

Is there a reason that ./ is giving front page coverage to SCO's press release spinning an IBM counterclaim, rather than reporting on the counterclaim itself?

Re:Er, what IBM counterclaim? (1)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646460)

Is there a reason that ./ is giving front page coverage to SCO's press release spinning an IBM counterclaim, rather than reporting on the counterclaim itself?

That would require extra work and then again nobody should dare go head to head with tradition ;)

Re:Er, what IBM counterclaim? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646526)

Might be because they already reported on IBM's counterclaim yesterday. [slashdot.org]

Re:Er, what IBM counterclaim? (2, Informative)

RatBastard (949) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646543)

This [slashdot.org] Counter claim as reported on the front page of Slashdot just yesterday.

Re:Er, what IBM counterclaim? (1)

TobascoKid (82629) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646553)

Is there a reason that ./ is giving front page coverage to SCO's press release spinning an IBM counterclaim, rather than reporting on the counterclaim itself?

umm, because it was on
yesterdays [slashdot.org] ?

Re:Er, what IBM counterclaim? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646559)

The coutnerclaim was reported yesterday. Be a real /. user, refresh every 10 minutes.

Unsubstantiated? (5, Insightful)

jmkaza (173878) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646348)

SCO's accussing IBM of making unsubstantiated claims? Did I wake up in Bizarro world this morning. At least IBM told them what code they were suing them for.

Breaking News... (4, Funny)

thrillbert (146343) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646349)

In other news, the pot today called the kettle black. Steming from a futile attempt by the pot to pass off as a kettle, and the kettle reaffirming it's own existance, the pot, for reasons yet unknown, called the kettle black in front of fellow kitchenware.

"It was just an unwarranted attack" said the Roast Pot. "We all know the truth here, and for the pot to be so stupid and call the kettle black, while itself is black, is just ridiculous.

The pot refused to answer any of our questions claiming temporary insanity due to undue financial stress. The kettle however smiled at our cameras and stated "now we realize who is living in the fantasy world!". We will bring you more of this developing story as it becomes available. For Koo-Koo kitchen News, this is Tea Spooner.

---
A tautology is a thing which is tautological.

Full text, since I'm a karma whore (0, Redundant)

Omkar (618823) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646350)

SCO Media Statement Re IBM Counterclaims
Thursday August 7, 4:15 pm ET


LINDON, Utah, Aug. 7 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- We view IBM's counterclaim filing today as an effort to distract attention from its flawed Linux business model. It repeats the same unsubstantiated allegations made in Red Hat's filing earlier this week. If IBM were serious about addressing the real problems with Linux, it would offer full customer indemnification and move away from the GPL license. As the stakes continue to rise in the Linux battles, it becomes increasingly clear that the core issue is bigger than SCO (Nasdaq: SCOX - News), Red Hat, or even IBM. The core issue is about the value of intellectual property in an Internet age. In a strange alliance, IBM and the Free Software Foundation have lined up on the same side of this argument in support of the GPL. IBM urges its customers to use non- warranted, unprotected software. This software violates SCO's intellectual property rights in UNIX, and fails to give comfort to customers going forward in use of Linux. If IBM wants customers to accept the GPL risk, it should indemnify them against that risk. The continuing refusal to provide customer indemnification is IBM's truest measure of belief in its recently filed claims.

(Logo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/19990421/SCOLO GO )
Regarding Patent Accusations

SCO has shipped these products for many years, in some cases for nearly two decades, and this is the first time that IBM has ever raised an issue about patent infringement in these products.

Furthermore, these claims were not raised in IBM's original answer.

SCO reiterates its position that it intends to defend its intellectual property rights. SCO will remain on course to require customers to license infringing Linux implementations as a condition of further use. This is the best and clearest course for customers to minimize Linux problems.

Re:Full text, since I'm a karma whore (1)

Delirium Tremens (214596) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646430)

You are a whore and a stupid one at that too. Do you really think that the biz.yahoo.com server could ever be slashdotted?

Re:Full text, since I'm a karma whore (1)

Omkar (618823) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646454)

Um, no. It's actually just convenient for people who don't RTFA. Main motive - I'm already at 'Excellent', why would I need more Karma?

Re:Full text, since I'm a karma whore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646496)

Well, now we know that it is not the Slashdot readers who fail to read the article, it is the moderators.

Re:Full text, since I'm a karma whore (1)

M. Silver (141590) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646539)

Do you really think that the biz.yahoo.com server could ever be slashdotted?

You may be right about the stupid part, but for a different reason: I was going to say that people would still appreciate it because it saved them having to actually click on the article to read it. ...But then I realized, those people would actually have to click on a link to grant him karma, so maybe it *wasn't* such a good idea.

(Or her. I might be able to tell, but it would take *two* clicks to go back and check...)

Ummmm... no no no.... (1)

emtboy9 (99534) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646355)

Yooohoooo... look over here, not over there! Look here.. shiny SCO Stock certificates! yes, thats it... ignore all that silly IP stuff over there... come here and see my shiny new pet!

Pot and Kettle? (-1, Redundant)

AlexDeGruven (565036) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646356)

Isn't SCO's statement that IBM's allegations are unsubstantiated akin to the old cliche of "The Pot calling the Kettle black"?

Brilliant (1)

TopShelf (92521) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646358)

I like the guy sending monopoly money for his SCO license. For online purchases, one should probably try Flooz [ecommercetimes.com] ...

Ha! (2, Funny)

niko9 (315647) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646359)

Move away from the GPL or I'll..um say Move away again! Ha!

Re:Ha! (1)

killthiskid (197397) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646464)

What I curious about is this: how exactly does one move away from the GPL? It's a non-physcial idea rendered many times in text... yeah, I'm gonna move 5 feet to north... that'll move me away from that idea! whew, that was close!

pot - kettle (2, Insightful)

yorkrj (658277) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646363)

This is an excellent example of "the pot calling the kettle black". I will have to remember this when my 1 year old nephew asks me what that phrase means.

Re:pot - kettle (2, Funny)

mopslik (688435) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646480)

I will have to remember this when my 1 year old nephew asks me what that phrase means.

I feel sorry for the kid, having to listen to that explanation:

1-yr old: "'Scuse, what's 'pot called kettle black'?"
Adult: "Listen up, kid. International copyright and patent laws prohibit the unauthorized redistribution of intellectual property..."

Lets all... (1)

soliaus (626912) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646364)

...pull a Ralsky(sp?) on SCO. Im personally going to send one for myself, and try to get people in my LUG to join in with me, even though one of them is an SCO employee.

Utah (1)

fgb (62123) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646370)

Lycoris tries to dodge the flood of idiocy from Utah.

You are talking about SCO... Right?

No time restraint on patents (4, Informative)

CrayzyJ (222675) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646371)

"Regarding Patent Accusations

SCO has shipped these products for many years, in some cases for nearly two decades, and this is the first time that IBM has ever raised an issue about patent infringement in these products."

IANAPA (Patent attorney), but as I understand it, the holder of patent can choose when to enfornce the patent. "Because we have been" is NOT a legal argument.

Re:No time restraint on patents (1)

Xerithane (13482) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646531)

IANAPA (Patent attorney), but as I understand it, the holder of patent can choose when to enfornce the patent. "Because we have been" is NOT a legal argument.

No, it isn't at all. Just looking at UNISYS and GIFs proves the tactic "works." IBM uses this tactic if someone threatens to bring legal action against them. "You say we're violating your patent? Oh, well, see, it shows here that you violate n [n is any number greater than the number of patents the company is saying IBM violates] so what would you like to do about it?"

GPL (4, Interesting)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646375)

As someone pointed out earlier, SCO is STILL distributing the disputed kernel with source. By continuing to distribute it mixed with their own GPL-incompliant source code, they are violating the intellectual property rights of everyone who ever contributed to the linux kernel. Without agreeing to the GPL they have no right to distrubute GPL'd software, because nothing else but the GPL gives them that right.

Re:GPL (0)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646413)

Please forgive my poor spelling.

Got a kick out of this except from SCO's site (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646381)

You have the option to do nothing, adopt a 'wait and see' attitude, and hope that SCO is not serious about enforcing its intellectual property rights in the end user community

Flood of idiocy from Utah? (1)

John Harrison (223649) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646383)

This is some serious journalism here. Slander an entire state because of one company. IBM probably has more employees in Utah than SCO does. Does that do anything to water down this flood of idiocy? Does it overflow into Colorado?

Re:Flood of idiocy from Utah? (1)

cHiphead (17854) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646502)

1.)no
and
2.) yes

Re:Flood of idiocy from Utah? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646525)

Actually SCO is only the best current example, but there's plenty more idiocy in that fine state of yours.

Incidentally, the word "slander" historically does not necessarily mean untrue defamatory statements, just defamatory statements. Many countries have laws against slander that do not require the slander to be untrue.

So in that sense, yes, they did slander the state. The provokation for this slander was probably the flood of idiocy from the state that did not begin with SCO.

Hmm (-1, Troll)

Mr_Silver (213637) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646384)

The longer this drags out, the more of a reason people have to stick with their comfy Microsoft products ...

Re:Hmm (1)

Enahs (1606) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646535)

You're marked as a troll, but it's true. This is the sort of stupid claim that could threaten all things Not Windows. I realize that there are things out there other than Unix-y and Windows-y systems, but if SCO actually pulls it off (I doubt they can) it'll open the floodgates and allow the software industry outside MS kill itself.

It's a chilling thought, IMHO.

Picking random people? (4, Funny)

mopslik (688435) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646389)

Deutsche Bank Securities analyst Brian Skiba...

The guy likely uses a computer, so obviously he's an expert on kernel design.

In other news, St. Mary's Hospital caterer Edna Pratt reviewed the conditions of several patients, and declared them free of cancer.

This needs sorting out (3, Interesting)

BFKrew (650321) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646392)

This case is threatening to be one in which only the lawyers come out of it with anything.

For all the predictably negative comments made by the Linux community, no one it seems, is preparing to challenge SCO and get this resolved. I will guarantee there are an endless stream of SCO jibes on this page now but not a single one of those jibes is something proactive or reactive to this seemingly large problem.

As far as I am aware, this has been ongoing for several months now and is including some very big companies that PHB's have heard of. Now, if a PHB knows that SCO is taking IBM to court and threatening Novell it would seem to suggest that using Linux in any form is likely to have implications at some time in the future, and therefore hold back Linux in the workplace.

Whilst this cloud is hanging over Linux, managers are going to be wary about rolling out Linux solutions and therefore other solutions such as MS ones are going to look increasingly safe choices, particularly with the new legal benefits.

Evil from Redmond... (1, Troll)

Picass0 (147474) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646403)

"If IBM were serious about addressing the real problems with Linux, it would offer full customer indemnification and move away from the GPL license."

More evidence that Mirco$oft is the real engine here. They are attacking the GPL directly and via proxy.

Re:Evil from Redmond... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646550)

Sorry, that's not evidence at all. I think Microsoft has seriously hurt the computer and software industry, but SCO is being killed by Linux. They have every reason to hate GPL. There's no reason to assume Microsoft is behind it.

--
me

Grocklaw does it again! (5, Informative)

mj01nir (153067) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646405)

Grocklaw has an overview of the IBM countersuit. [weblogs.com] And for added fun, the whole 46 page filing is available in multipage TIFF [crn.com] or pdf. [idealcorp.com]

The patents are at:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PT O1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm &r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4,814,746.WKU.&OS=PN/4,814,746&RS =PN/4,814,746 [uspto.gov]
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PT O1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm &r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4,821,211.WKU.&OS=PN/4,821,211&RS =PN/4,821,211 [uspto.gov]
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PT O1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm &r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4,953,209.WKU.&OS=PN/4,953,209&RS =PN/4,953,209 [uspto.gov]
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PT O1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm &r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,805,785.WKU.&OS=PN/5,805,785&RS =PN/5,805,785 [uspto.gov]

After reading the actual countersuit filing, it looks like an even bigger, more comprehensive smackdown than even was speculated yesterday. IBM is fully ready to press SCO's GPL transgressions, talks at length about the failure of SCO's business, makes clear in several locactions the difference between Old SCO (Tarantella) and Caldera/New SCO, they even mention that some of SCO's claims have exceeded the statute of limitations. IBM has clearly been tracking SCO FUD and mentions specific quotes from SCO execs that are damaging. They also reiterate that IBM's UNIX license is perpetual and irrevokable, but they also say that even if that wern't the case SCO still can't revoke IBM's license because SCO has not followed the agreement on the procedure to revoke the license. SMACK, SMACK, SMACK!

Where can I get SCO Linux? (1)

TheSHAD0W (258774) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646415)

I figure that, if I have a copy of SCO Linux lying around, if SCO actually decides to sue me, I can go to the judge and tell him I already have a license from SCO. In fact, everyone ought to have a copy.

Re:Where can I get SCO Linux? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646487)

we do. It's the GPL.

GPL (1)

EvilBudMan (588716) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646424)

So the main thing that will come out of this is whether the GPL is legal or not. If not, no more free software. SCO may burn out before that question is answered.

*knock knock* (5, Funny)

American AC in Paris (230456) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646429)

"Why, good afternoon, Mr. McBride! Me and Tiny here, we's here as goodwill representatives of our esteemed employer, IBM. We'd likes ta take a minute of your valuable time and substantiate our employer's claims against your organization. Would youse mind steppin' into dis darkened alleyway with us?"

Lycoris users can't be immune (3, Interesting)

73939133 (676561) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646434)

All Lycoris Desktop/LX users are unaffected by this new licensing program and are immune to any further changes in the SCO licensing structure due to the perpetuity of the prior agreement.

Unless Lycoris is referring to the GPL when they are talking about the "prior agreement", it is impossible for them to have another agreement with SCO: the GPL simply does not permit redistribution of code under side-agreements. Either everybody can redistribute or nobody can. That clause is in there precisely to keep companies from doing what SCO is doing.

If I owned a dog that was as rabid as SCO (1)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646438)

I'd put a bullet in his brain. Poor old thing, snarling and frothing. That's no way to live.

Iraqi Information Minister... (1)

pdbogen (596723) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646445)

or SCO CEO?

In other news... (1)

Austerity Empowers (669817) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646447)

In other news IBM sneezes and SCO CEO Darl McBride accuses IBM of continued violations of SCO intellectual property. No one at IBM could be reached for a comment, however McBride was quoted as saying that "...this sneeze is SCO intellectual property, and is not licensed for public distribution". McBride further alleges that the sneeze will result in a $699 license fee, payable to SCO for each person in IBM involved.

In a related story, McBride also threated to sue any company offering a Kleenex to IBM. A spokesperson at Red Hat was quoted as saying "Gazundheit".

License (1)

MImeKillEr (445828) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646448)

Since their license isn't worth the paper its printed on, whatsay we all send them $199 in Monopoly money.

Re:License (1)

slimak (593319) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646508)

which has of coarse been done here [perlguy.net] (and was in the story headline).

morons question va lairIE/robbIE's 'scoring' (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646462)

mynuts won? oddly enough, we're just touting survival. somehow, somewon perceives that as a threat to their felonious moneysuck scams. whatever. there's no turning back. you foulcurrs best ready yourselves to see the light.

back on task. the Godless murderous thieving georgewellian fuddites appear to be continuing to destroy the planet unimpeded. you know that's not going to work out well.

y'all might want to consider helping to disempower this greed/fear based execrable. you know what to do/where to look. see you there.

each murdered infant carries a badtoll, which cannot be repaid by the whoreabull walking dead, which leaves it (repairation) up to you/us.

pay attention. that's quite affordable, & can be rewarding as well.

Damn:) (1)

justsomebody (525308) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646467)

I was expecting first reaction more like

Darl: I'm deeply dissapointed with reactions IBM made

SCO Stock (1)

slimak (593319) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646476)

i think that the most interesting thing about the SCO issue is their stock price [cnn.com] . Going from $0.78 to $11.00 (as of posting) is not too shabby.

Could be a good time to short SCO since the price will most likely plummet when this is all over (hopefully soon).

Interpertation (1)

Crashmarik (635988) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646478)

The core issue is about the value of intellectual property in an Internet age. In a strange alliance, IBM and the Free Software Foundation have lined up on the same side of this argument in support of the GPL.

Is it just me or is SCO trying to insinuate that IBM'ers are communist hippies now ?

This software violates SCO's intellectual property rights in UNIX, and fails to give comfort to customers going forward in use of Linux.

SCO has shipped these products for many years, in some cases for nearly two decades, and this is the first time that IBM has ever raised an issue about patent infringement in these products. Furthermore, these claims were not raised in IBM's original answer.

For me this about sums it all up. SCO is perfectly willing to stand up for intellectual property rights, it just believes its the only company that has any.

Its quite amazing that even a company as dat as sco can contradict itself in so short a distance.

hohohoho.. that is hilarious (2, Funny)

joeldg (518249) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646485)

buying an SCO license with monopoly money..

*gaaah* I almost fell out of my chair..

That just killed me.. I gotta buy one with some monopoly money.. :)

thought, I only have the simpson version and might need that money later for the "save the SCO" foundation for when they declare bankruptcy

How long (1)

phorm (591458) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646486)

Is this going to drag out? I mean, every day we hear more and more of this. As it gets bigger, it's more likely to sit in court for awhile, hanging as a shadow over Linux, SCO, and IBM (the latter being the legal/monentary drain).

While I realize that snap-decisions are a bad thing, any prediction on when this will end? I really won't care to hear about SCO vs IBM 2 years from now, I'm just hoping to see SCO get rung out in court like a wet towel.

As for the claims of "Unsubstantiated Allegations", I'd predict several pot-calling-kettle-black remarks, but what else does SCO have left to say? Anything less than a claim of "we're 100% right" and their precarious litte boat of flimflamery will start to sink.

IBM's got a nuclear submarine and SCO is going to claim an impenetrable hull and depth charges. Really all they've got is a fishing tug and a few pointy rocks they can drop in hopes of a hit.

Remember the "big lie" concept. The longer you keep a little lie secret, the more bigger lies it can spawn. It's just a matter of time before SCO makes such a public joke of themself that their little boat goes down like it hit an iceberg...

Analogy to describe SCO's business plan. (1)

rice_burners_suck (243660) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646491)

After several months of endless SCO stories, my ability to resist posting about Scumware Crotchless Operation has all but completely worn away.

Upon reading this post, one realizes that it closely resembles going to dinner with a buddy, asking, "How's business?" and writing it off as a business expense. Further, this post closely resembles a sandwich that appears large but, once eaten, proves unsatisfyingly small. A staid, steadfast comment, it resembles a pantomime of images.

Because this post is supposed to be about SCO, Darl McBribe / McBlackmail / McExtort / McThreaten / McLose / Mc-Go-To-Jail-Do-Not-Pass-Go-Do-Not-Collect-Two-Hu ndred-Billion-Dollars. But the meat of this post is decidedly unsatisfying: SCO is trying to play hard ball with the big boys when SCO, unfit even to be called a little boy, is barely a hole in some dead goat's ass. (See what I mean about "pantomime of images?" And that's a pretty gross image, if you ask me.)

This post constitutes gobbledygook. Like the unfulfilling sandwich, it first appears large but contains nothing of value. And what the author has done fits well within the aforementioned business dinner analogy, as the author has said about 2 words that were on topic, yet all that followed diverted from that original focus, nay, is completely off topic.

Just like SCO's business plan.

Deutsche Bank (that non-programmer) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646492)

I used to work at DeutscheBank. When I left they were pushing for the adoption of SuSE Linux (I personally built some "approved" Linux servers for my team so I know that to be true). Apparently they have a financial stake in SuSE, from what I was told. So I'm surprised to see them agree with SCO here.

Interesting... (4, Interesting)

TheRealFixer (552803) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646493)

If IBM were serious about addressing the real problems with Linux, it would offer full customer indemnification and move away from the GPL license.

Now, I think, we get down to the heart of the matter. This isn't an attack on Linux per se. It isn't about IP or patents or copyrights. This is about trying to destroy the GPL. I think this statement, more than anything else, shows that MS really is behind this whole thing. What interest would SCO, a puny company who once distrubuted a Linux kernel in the GPL, have in invalidating the GPL? I just can't see why they would make themselves look like complete idiots to do that. On the other hand, who would jump for joy at the prospect of companies turning away from the GPL? Microsoft would be first and foremost on that list.

Mr Pot meet Mr Kettle, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6646495)

Mr Kettle this is Mr Pot.

IBM's SCO Filing Available As Well (2, Informative)

DaGoodBoy (8080) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646497)

The 46 page response is now available as a multipage TIFF [crn.com] and converted to a PDF file [idealcorp.com] .

Highlights include "20. Although it completed an initial public offering, SCO has failed to establish a successful business around Linux. SCO's Linux business has never generated a profit. In fact, the company as a whole did not experience a profitable quarter until after it abandoned its Linux business and undertook its present scheme to extract windfall profits from UNIX technology that SCO played no part in developing."

Mmmmmm... fighting words (1)

bobtheheadless (467304) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646500)

If IBM were serious about addressing the real problems with Linux, it would offer full customer indemnification and move away from the GPL license.

Thats just the kind of language, though, that the people who know of nothing other than money and business listen to. Like chickens with their heads cut off. I thinks its becomming pretty clear that SCO is being used as a martyr by those who fear open sourced software cutting away at their profits.

I certainly liked the idea of sending monopoly money for the license... get a 1000 people to do that, I bet it would piss somebody off :)

"They said it was from another hardware vendor" (1)

Big Smirk (692056) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646505)

"They said it was from another hardware vendor, but they didn't say who,"

Uhm, hardware vendor? Same code in Unix and Linux? Now that I can believe. Now the question is who ownes the copyright of hardware specific code. Can't imagine a company writing a driver and turning over the driver (and all rights) to SCO.

That which hits the fan is not evenly distributed

SCO sued for trademark infringement! (1)

hankaholic (32239) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646507)

Ronald McDonald, spokesman for McDonald's Corporation (NYSE:MCD), has declared his employer's intent to sue Darl McBride, President and CEO of SCO (NYSE:SCOX), for allegedly infringing upon the fast-food giant's trademark.

Details were sparse, but McDonald promised that the litigious executive would soon face heavy penalties for "use of [McDonald Corp.'s] trademark symbol in his surname", stating that "McDonald's Corporation plans to defend our trademark symbols against any and all unauthorized use."

Industry insiders quite rumors that McDonald's corporation has plans to go after other well-known CEOs, including Donald Trump, for allegedly weakening their trademark.

Ronald McDonald went on to explain why McBride had been chosen as their first target: "We feel, and our lawyers wholeheartedly agree, that the recent activities of Darl and his company also infringe upon the Intellectual Process describing the business methods of the Hamburgler, one of our top executives."

Darl McBride did not respond to requests for comment.

In case of Perl Guy /.ing (2, Informative)

Falc0n (618777) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646511)

Just in case.. here is a Mirror.. http://www.plu.edu/~perryjd/sco.html

Sco is full of it (1)

u-235-sentinel (594077) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646516)

"SCO has shipped these products for many years, in some cases for nearly two decades, and this is the first time that IBM has ever raised an issue about patent infringement in these products."

I read this and nearly spilled my drink all over myself. The same argument many here have made is being used by SCO? I mean think about it. They sell Linux for years making code available and DON'T make an issue over infringement and now they complain over some vapor infringment?

Amazing. Just when I thought people couldn't be any worse. SCO doesn't have employee's, they have only lawyers. Maybe they should hiring a few monkeys and improve their employee gene pool.

Wake me when SCO does something worthy of attention. So far I'm waiting to be impressed.

Go Mr. Kuhn!!!! On Deck RMS (1)

perotbot (632237) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646533)

From one of the lower level links..... ""They need to realize that they have licensed the software under the GPL and released it to the world and they have no rights to ask for royalties," said Bradley Kuhn, the executive director of the Free Software Foundation, the organization that created the GPL. " "Nebulous License" SCO says. Can someone hear RMS cranking up for the diatribe of all time?

How long (1)

MImeKillEr (445828) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646542)

Before SCO decides to sue my parents because I've got a few differnt flavors of Linux at home?

quote from InfoWorld article... (4, Funny)

dR.fuZZo (187666) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646548)

SCO responded to the countersuit on Thursday, calling IBM's complaint an effort to distract attention from flaws in its own business model and criticizing the GPL.

Clearly, IBM's business model is broken and they're trying to hide that fact. I mean, selling products and services is so 20th Century. Litigation is the way to make money these days. The countersuit just smacks of "me too"ism.

IBM issues cryptic response (5, Funny)

Feathers McGraw (180980) | more than 10 years ago | (#6646561)

ARMONK, NY - Aug. 8, 2003 -- "Dodge this."
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