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Translated KDE/Linux Usability Report Available

michael posted more than 11 years ago | from the lessons-to-learn dept.

KDE 424

WHudson writes "Relevantive AG, a German consulting firm who recently completed a study on Linux usability, posted their results in English translation today. Bottom line: Linux nearly as easy to use as Windows XP, but the wording of system and program messages could use some more clarity."

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GNAA Announces acquisition of SCO (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6682882)

GNAA Announces acquisition of SCO
By Tim Copperfield
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"This GNAA shit is getting out of hand. Slashdot needs troll filters. Or better yet a crap flood mod that I can exclude from my browsing. Seriously, a good troll is art, what you dumb fucks are doing is just plain stupid." said spacecowboy420.

macewan, on linuxquestions [] said "Thanks for that link to the SCO quotes page. My guess is that they want to be bought out. Hrm, think they want GNAA to buy them??"

After careful consideration and debate, GNAA board of directors agreed to purchase 6,426,600 preferred shares and 113,102 common shares (the equivalent of 150,803 ADSs) of SCO, for an aggregate consideration of approximately US$26.9 million and approximately $40 million for gay niggers that were working in Lindon, Utah offices of The SCO Group.

If all goes well, the final decision is to be expected shortly, followed by transfer of most SCO niggers from their Lindon, UT offices to the GNAA Headquarters in New York.

About GNAA
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If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is EFNet, and you can connect to or as one of the EFNet servers.
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About SCO
The SCO Group [SCOX [] ] helps millions of gay niggers in more than 82 countries around the world grow their penises everyday. Headquartered in Lindon, Utah, SCO has a network of more than 11,000 nigger resellers and 8,000 developers. SCO Global Services provides reliable nigger support and services to prospective members and customers.
SCO and the associated SCO logo are trademarks or registered trademarks of The SCO Group, Inc. in the U.S. and other countries. UNIX and UnixWare are registered trademarks of The Open Group in the United States and other countries. All other brand or product names are or may be trademarks of their respective owners.

This news release contains forward-looking statements that involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions. All statements other than statements of historical fact are statements that could be deemed forward-looking statements. These statements are based on management's current expectations and are subject to uncertainty and changes in circumstances. Actual results may vary materially from the expectations contained herein. The forward-looking statements contained herein include statements about the consummation of the transaction with SCO and benefits of the pending transaction with SCO. Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described herein include the inability to obtain regulatory approvals and the inability to successfully integrate the SCO business. GNAA is under no obligation to (and expressly disclaims any such obligation to) update or alter its forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

| ______________________________________._a,____ |
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ |
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ |
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ |
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ |
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ |
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ |
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ |
| ______-"!^____________________________________ |
` _______________________________________________'

Re:GNAA Announces acquisition of SCO (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683232)

Hey that one was actually funny!

hi (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6682885)

hi, im new here, whats this site about?

Re:hi (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6682919)

Read the GN-NAY-NAY posts! That'll tell ya'!

Bullshit (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6682888)

Sorry, KDE isn't up to snuff yet in terms of usability...give it another decade or two

Re:Bullshit (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683214)

This isn't flamebait. If he replaced the word KDE with Windows it would have been modded to +5 informative. What he said was totally true, to the point, and informative.

English Summary (0, Redundant)

Suhas (232056) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682899)

The report "Linux Usability Study" presents the results of a large-scale Usability Study which was conducted in Summer 2003 by the Berlin based relevantive AG.
The study deals with the question of how usable desktop applications are on Linux, with a strong focus on the usage in companies and public administrations. Due to the fact that there are no publicly available studies on this subject, the intention is to provide an additional basis for decision-makers who plan, intent or are in the process of migrating to Linux on desktop.
The study is built on a task based set of usability tests, where 60 test participants performed typical office tasks on a Linux system. A further group of 20 users performed the identical tasks on a Windows XP system. The participants had no prior experience with the tested systems.
The test system based on SuSE 8.2 and KDE 3.1.2 and was configured in close cooperation with basyskom, a Darmstadt based Linux consulting company. The configurations followed basic usability guidelines. All results and statements in this study are related to this preconfigured system.
Main results:
The usability of Linux as a desktop system has been experienced as nearly equal to Windows XP. The performance (time required to complete a task) was in average only little behind Windows XP. A couple of tasks were even easier and faster to solve on Linux, many applications were rated better by the participants than their equivalents on Windows XP.
The majority of the test participants enjoyed working with the Linux system and estimated that they need a maximum of one week to acquire their previous level of competence on this system. It is therefore to conclude that in the course of a migration to Linux a positive acceptance by the users / employees can be expected.
It is the strong configurability of Linux / KDE that enables the design of a tailor-made system which is adapting to the requirements of the users in companies and public administrations.
The study also shows significant problems that are connected with Linux as a desktop system. This does mainly concern poor wording of programs and interfaces, partly missing clarity and structure of the desktop interface as well as the menus, and poor system feedback.
These problems are identified, documented by examples, and their consequences are analyzed with respect to the user performance and experience.

Re:English Summary (2, Insightful)

Stevyn (691306) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683167)

The linux apps are supposed to be just as easy to use and capable as windows apps. But the problem i think most people face is getting to the point where they can double click the icon and it will load and work properly. In a business setting where you have an IT department doing the work of configuring it, I'm sure most people will have no problem adjusting. However, this takes a decent amount of work and knowhow to set these fuckers up. While windows may be buggy, faulty, unstable, and watched over by big brother, at least it's a cinch to install applications on it.

That is not meant to be a slam on linux and a praise on windows, but it's a major roadblock that prevents a lot of windows users from having the balls to make an attempt to switch.

I'm already thinking about the flames that will surely ensure from this post. But seriously, get a windows box and install a program and do the same for linux while keeping in mind that most people don't want to learn, because they shouldn't have to, how to simply put the icon on their desktop or menu. It may sound trivial to experience computer users, but it's not to regular windows users who just want to get something done.

Re:English Summary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683248)

I've always wondered why German/Swedish/Danish companies have AG at the end of their name. Is AG basically equivalent to Inc or Corp?????

usable but not the same (5, Insightful)

gfody (514448) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682902)

Most people that use windows have been using it for a very long time. They have a false sense of intuitiveness that won't transfer to KDE. Things like button placement conventions, widget consistencies, and terminology are different (as in whole other universe different). People that were spoon fed windows are never going to try out KDE and think its actually MORE usable.

Redundant? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683060)

This is the first post, seems rather insightful as well.

Mod him down! FSF is not communism! -1 -1 down down down!

Re:usable but not the same (1)

Malcontent (40834) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683200)

Ooops like almost all astro-turfer posts looks like got modded up.

I do wish MS made up their minds though. Is the FSF a cancer or communist. Or are they the pure incarnation of evil. Perhaps they are something even worse like democrats or something.

Usability (5, Insightful)

LamerX (164968) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682908)

I think that the whole myth surrounding the difficulty with Linux, is that they already know Windows. They get used to one system, and when they go to use another system, they expect it to work exactly the same. I taught my step-mother how to burn CDs using Nero in Windows, then I got sick of maintaining the spyware-infested OS, and forced Linux upon her. She commented that "How would I have known to click 'k3b' to burn CDs?" I replied, "How would you have known to use Nero?"

It's all about teaching someone, and once they learn to use something one way, it's hard to get them to learn a new method. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, as they say.

My step-mom now says how much she loves Linux. She loves no spyware, no pop-ups and spam thanks to Mozzie, and uses OpenOffice without a hitch. (Also uses k3b to burn CDs)

Re:Usability (4, Insightful)

SweetAndSourJesus (555410) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682954)

Until we can get installers where you can do the standard "click next" routine, Linux will not be usable for the average user.

Becoming familiar with Windows never involves resolving dependency issues.

Bollocks. (4, Insightful)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683052)

Try RedHat 9 some time. Installing apps is as simple as double-clicking the RPM in Nautilus ("windows" to the uninformed). The package manager apps take it from there - 2 clicks of "Continue" and it is ready to use. The only thing I didn't like was no "It's Done!" message at the end...

Becoming "familiar" with Windows (read futzing around with non-std apps and tools) *does* involve resolving dependency issues - I'm on lists where it's common to see people say "Why does it want x.dll?", and for a while there, developers shipping dlls and libs crapped up Windows boxes due to being old versions or for the wrong OS (eg 3.1 vs NT vs 95 vs 98 vs 2K vs XP). The problem's not limited to Linux, and what's more, it's no longer an issue on Linux if you use a current distro and the tools it comes with.

Linux has its problems, but this isn't one of them.

Re:Bollocks. (4, Insightful)

holloway (46404) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683201)

I use Redhat 9 (and Windows 2K) and it doesn't deal with dependencies, let alone add a launching menu item to all the Linux desktop's menus. The makers of Linux RPMs don't include everything, it seems they regard statically compiled binaries to be rude. In practice it's a balance of static and dynamic, and in my opinion Linux gets the balance wrong (in that it's rare for software to just require one installation).

Redhat 9 also comes with an Apache GUI configuration tool that breaks the config file when you have multiple hosts (though I've had no problems with the Network tool, and it's much better than Mandrake's).

Software such as APT-GET (and's aptget for rpm) are good, but see the list of software on FreshRpms and you'll see that it only has a few hundred packages (which is what -- 5% of Linux software having an easy installation?).

The main argument for shared libraries, and only proving a piece of the puzzle, is that the pieces can be upgraded at their own rate. But if dependencies can't be resolved transparently as is the current case then it's safe to assume that most users won't be able to use your software (Kismet Wireless, GStreamer - for example).

These days I hit into Linux dependancy problems much more than DLLs.

Compare this to Windows '98 -- where it generally works.

Well... (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683263)

Becoming familiar with Windows never involves resolving dependency issues.

No, but it does usually involve running into some (aka DLL hell). You just don't have a clue of how to resolve them and can only pray it doesn't break when you upgrade to the latest version you can find, which should work with "the most". I got a couple games I can't play simply because they choke on the current system files.

Usually I find that the pachage managers do a pretty good job resolving dependencies and installing them for me. A "next" click that won't tell you all the ugly tidbits behind the scenes is a lot better for the average user, but it's hardly the "make-or-break" of Linux.

Re:Usability (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6682998)

Dude, I clicked on your journal, and my computer started rebooted over and over. Now my Dad's computer is rebooted too. WTF?

What have the trolls done to me know?

Holy fuck, I'm going to get a size 10 up my ass tomorrow mornging if I don't get this to stop. Im on the only computer not rebooting. I can't even log ont he other computers they just reboot.

Can you tlel me what to do?

Re:Usability (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683106)

you should flee to mexico, and join a circus

Windows vs. Linux (-1, Troll)

31337_jihadi (697645) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683007)

There's an interesting article over at tubgirl tech archive [] about people with a little windows exposure switching to linux


Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683051)

Thanks for that link. Most informative and interesting, I must say.

whats with the mods tonight? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683119)

a tubgirl link is informative and the first post is redundant.

Re:Windows vs. Linux (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683124)

That site makes some compelling arguments. It's a rather well done piece, I'm surprised I haven't seen it on the front page of /. yet.
However, I have to disagree with their assessment of Windows Update; its usability suffers heavily from having to reboot multiple times between updates. When I upgraded media player I couldn't include any other updates with it, and ended up having to reboot 3 times during the update process. New users would probably check everything and click ok without reading the warning, thinking all the other updates were in when they really aren't.

Re:Usability (5, Insightful)

The Revolutionary (694752) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683022)

"She commented that "How would I have known to click 'k3b' to burn CDs?" I replied, "How would you have known to use Nero?""

Which raises an interesting question: Why, when your step-mother wants to "burn a cd" does she need to look for not just "Nero" or "k3b", but anything other than noun: "CD creator", or as a task: "Burn a CD", or "Create a CD"?

If, as seems to be the case, your step-mother knows what it means to "burn a CD", then a successful user interface will indicate to her how to "burn a CD".

We are not dealing with proprietary software; name recognition is nice, but we do not need to sacrifice usability to preserve it if that is the tradeoff. There is nothing wrong with referring to "Epiphany" as "Web Browser", which seems to be the default for Debian GNOME 2.2 (is this for GNOME in general?).

GNOME menu->Accessories gives me "Text Editor", "Hex Editor", "Dictionary", "Find Files". This is wonderful. Should "Accessories" be something more to the point? Perhaps, but what is there shows promise.

If we must refer to applications by name, and perhaps this is useful for multiple applications which accomplish the same task (another problem!), then "Web Browser (Mozilla Firebird)", "Web Browser (Konqueror)", or "Mozilla Firebird Web Browser" and "Konqueror Web Browser" seem much more approrpriate.

These all seem to be much better situations than finding names in menus such as "", "Ximian Evolution", "The GIMP", and "Mozilla".

When I think "I should check my email", I don't think "Ximian Evolution", I think "email" (well, actually I think "mutt", but that's beside the point). Sure, when I think "email", I know to look through my menu structure until I see "Ximian Evolution", but that is secondary to what I actually want.

As I'm fairly new to using full desktop environments with X ("Multiple XTerm Environment"), I don't have experience with the desktops of other distributions. How do these matters fare elsewhere?

Re:Usability (1)

Gherald (682277) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683206)

Windows XP has a built in cd-buring system that is fairly easy to use.

Nero is a 3rd party solution that has more features and some wizards to help the user along, but its implementation requires you to create a "project" which is a bit of overkill for run-of-the-mill copying of a few files to a CD.

Re:Usability (1)

RoLi (141856) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683242)

Funny, in the usability study CD-burning was one of the things Linux was found to be better because Windows XP's in-built system was found awkard.

But of course, if you are one of the "if Microsoft does it, it's great" - trolls, it's hard to believe.

Actually, if you read the study you will notice that setting the destkop background was the task that was responsible for most of the time difference between KDE and WinXP. With KDE 3.2 including the same "use as wallpaper" option in Konqueror, that difference will disappear. Not that I consider setting the desktop wallpaper an important task, though.

Re:Usability (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683254)

They don't even have to be "Web Browser", or something so generic. As long as by reading the name you know what it does.

For instance, OS X apps:

Calculator, Chess, Clock, DVD Player, iCal, iChat, Image Capture, iMovie, Internet Connect, iPhoto, iSync, iTunes, Mail, Preview, Stickies, TextEdit

Many of these are simplistic apps, though. (Calculator, Clock, etc.)

The only one that is installed by default that would confuse a new user would be "Safari." There are others not installed by default, but I would assume once a user has installed something they know what it does. And if someone else installed it, it would be up to them to explain it's function.

Re:Usability (1)

The Revolutionary (694752) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683257)

Looking at the screenshot of the menu as configured for the tests on page seventeen (17), it appears as though these naming conventions were in fact used.

"[Tool type](Application name)"

Re:Usability (2, Informative)

Osty (16825) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683027)

She commented that "How would I have known to click 'k3b' to burn CDs?" I replied, "How would you have known to use Nero?"

Well, first off, the link is generally called "Nero Burning ROM", which gives a good impression that it's what you'd want to "burn" a CD-"ROM". Second, either you bought Nero and installed it (by simply putting the disc in the drive and clicking Next a few times), or it came with your PC and was advertised both at the store and with papers in the box the machine came in. What is "k3b"? What does it stand for? How would I associate that with burning a CD? Make the name a little more descriptive (cdrecord is a good name, but commandline recording won't suffice), "advertise" it as the app to use to burn CDs, and people will have no problem finding it.

Re:Usability (1)

Stevyn (691306) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683216)

You're exactly right. What the some people of the free software community hates to think about is that sometimes people will pay for the ease to get their software to install with 3 clicks and use it with 2 clicks (one double click really). Having software open is great, but a lot of it's just the same as windows freeware. Just because software is open and free, doesn't mean people give two shits when it won't work on the first try.

So here's where the problem begins. Should people make free open software on their own time and do it for the good of the community, or should companies sell closed software that works better?

I think what a lot of people don't consider is that with p2p, all software becomes free whether it's legal or not. That is a totally different issue and lets not get all worked up over it, but a good amount of the software that home desktop users have on their windows boxes is pirated, so the free linux idea doesn't mean much. However, in a business situation this is very different and I think that's where linux should be focused for now.

Re:Usability (3, Informative)

RoLi (141856) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683251)

first off, the link is generally called "Nero Burning ROM"

And how exactly is this better than "K3b (cd burning program)"

You obviously have never used any semi-recent version of KDE. All KDE programs have short description right beside the name in the K-menu.

Re:Usability (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683065)

I am so tired of these "my mom loves linux now" stories. If you believe everything you read on slashdot, Moms around the globe are running and loving linux and not one has ever had a complaint about it.

I call bullshit. I simply do not believe your story and I think you are making up shit just to try to prove some imaginary point that only you care about. Get a life man. There is more out there than playing out this imaginary war in your head over and over. I suggest tomorrow try TAKING A SHOWER and then maybe a HAIRCUT and this time use DEODORANT!!!!!!!!

Re:Usability (1)

Homology (639438) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683100)

A KDE desktop does indeed have some usability issues that should be dealt with. The test rapport is very good, and a lot of resources was put into the test to make it useful.

Incidentally, K3B was mentioned due to poor naming of it in the menu. The testers was of the opinion that a description of K3B function should be included (page 13). Actually, they made some changes in the KDE configuration (page 22) :

We would advise against using a default KDE "out of the box". The solutions described above are not part of the default configuration, but they contributed considreably to the usability of the test system.

Re:Usability (2, Insightful)

Brian Quinlan (252202) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683271)

To be fair to Nero, the complete name listed in the Start menu is "Nero - Burning Rom".

Of course you could argue that the name should be something like "Create CD". Unfortunately for Nero, that is exactly what the Start menu extry for Adaptec Easy CD Creator is.

In any case I think that it is a huge mistake to not include the word "CD" in the menu entry.

Error Message (4, Interesting)

EverStoned (620906) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682909)

"Bottom line: Linux nearly as easy to use as Windows XP, but the wording of system and program messages could use some more clarity." I've actually find the opposite. For me, Linux errors are helpful (except for maybe getting a printer to work), unlike the jargon the BSOD gives you.

Re:Error Message (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6682938)

I also think we should be able to edit our posts.

Re:Error Message (2, Interesting)

kasperd (592156) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682991)

For me, Linux errors are helpful

That is also my experience. If I have a problem with Linux, it gives me all the messages and tools I need to find the exact cause of the problem. With Windows I often have to give up, because it refuse to tell me, what I need to know. Knowing what the problem is, is the first major step towards solving it.

Re:Error Message (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683005)

With the exception of LILO, as anyone who's ever recieved

LI 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 .....

will testify.

ARTICLE TEXT (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6682914)

In case of slashdotting.

Translated KDE/Linux Usability Report Available
Posted by michael on Wednesday August 13, @01:03AM
from the lessons-to-learn dept.
WHudson writes "Relevantive AG, a German consulting firm who recently completed a study on Linux usability, posted their results in English translation today. Bottom line: Linux nearly as easy to use as Windows XP, but the wording of system and program messages could use some more clarity."

Nice note (3, Interesting)

metaphyber (694445) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682915)

I was checking out the article, and there seems to be a slight affiliation with microsoft (where this article is originally posted) So, for it to defend linux the way it does is suprising (since some spornsorships are coming from microsoft, I usually don't expect that.)

Re:Nice note (1)

Thatmushroom (447396) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683030)

So, for it to defend linux the way it does is suprising.

You must be a subscriber. Have you even seen the ads here on Slashdot?

I don't find Linux easy to use (yet) (3, Insightful)

tomas.bjornerback (411702) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682922)

I don't want a flame war, just say that I've been trying to install Linux on a Compaq Evo 1015v since last week and I simply can't get X up and running in any orderly fashion.

I've tried Debian and even tried to recompile the kernel a few times, to no avail. I have downloaded a couple of GB via dselect without any success.

The Red Hat 9 CD would only boot, but not install any files. It didn't recognize the network adapter nor the DVD-rom (that it booted from).

How do I install Linux (with X) on that laptop?
Must it be that hard to do it?

Does the Linux community understand that the threshold is too high for the big mass of users?

I really want to run Linux (distro unimportant) on the laptop, so don't blame me!

Re:I don't find Linux easy to use (yet) (2, Funny)

gfody (514448) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682952)

try slackware []

Re:I don't find Linux easy to use (yet) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6682963)

Look up on google for Linux Users Groups and take it to the next install fest in your area. I'm sure someone would be better able to help you if they could get their hands on your hardware.

Get a Dell dude! (1)

mrselfdestrukt (149193) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682971)

hehe. Anyway. Maybe you're just not trying hard enough.

Re:I don't find Linux easy to use (yet) (1)

Minderbinder106 (663468) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682986)

I had a similar problem on my notebook. Red Hat and Debian would boot and start to install, then crash in random places during the install. Slackware and College Linux installed without a hitch though.

Re:I don't find Linux easy to use (yet) (1)

Sivaram_Velauthapill (693619) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682989)

I don't really know the problem (have never had a notebook in my life :( )... Since you have high bandwidth, try a few other distros like Mandrake. I find Mandrake to be more user-friendly and it often incorporates "beta" software which is newer and can work when other things don't...

Re:I don't find Linux easy to use (yet) (2, Informative)

bersl2 (689221) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683010)

Check here [] and find your machine on the list.

Re:I don't find Linux easy to use (yet) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683020)

This might help []
Don't blame the linux comunity, blame Compaq.

Re:I don't find Linux easy to use (yet) (1)

mlk (18543) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683046)

This report is not on the install of Linux, but the usability of Linux when installed (well).
Most users never install an OS (Linux or Windows), and even if their OS is hosed via a virus, most people would be lost even with the "recovery cd" (i.e. totally automaticed windows install, with only the correct drivers on the CD).

Studying is partially flawed (4, Insightful)

SerpentMage (13390) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683055)

I like LINUX, I use Redhat 9 because most things are automatically recognized.

BUT, the study is based on two BIG flaws... In the usage scenarios the following is said.

1)The computer is largely preconfigured
2)Use of the computer is mostly restricted to specific applications in a practically homogenous surronding.

Well, DUH! If I give them a black box with only only black box applications Linux and Windows are largely the same. In fact most OS's in this context are largely the same...

The PROBLEM of the OS's is when you need to add applications, remove applications or do those silly extra steps. Then Linux becomes hell. The only company that I think has clued into this problem is RedHat. Bluecurve in Redhat 8 was a godsend. No more twiddling with text files. I can pop in my Redhat 9 CD's and it will recognize everything on my notebook, including wireless card. That is how it should be...

Sorry, but that study is partially flawed as many Microsoft studies.

Re:Studying is partially flawed (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683145)

Actually, it is not flawed. The study was not supposed to test whether a home user could use linux as effectively as the windows machine that they have used for years but how they could perform tasks in a work environment. Any large office will preconfigure the machines(even Windows) and try to keep general users from fiddling with them and installing spyware , trojans, virii, etc. In a work environment the idea of installing software and device drivers is not the users job but the system admins.

I believe that more companies and government organization are going to wake up to the fact they are just creating additional problems by putting too much into desktops(outfitting them with Office Pro, etc.). A large percentage of office workers only need email access, simple word processing, spreadsheets and access to the custom corporate app they spend their entire day working in. Linux is perfectly fine and cost effective in those scenarios.

Re:I don't find Linux easy to use (yet) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683084)

My Evo v800 laptop runs debian happily :) Everything just works here..

Re:I don't find Linux easy to use (yet) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683115)

You idiot! RTFM! I enjoy the fact that I can use that as a response to anything relating to someone else's problem with linux without having to justify myself. The fact that you're trying to put linux on this laptop must mean you expect it to be like windows. Either way, it's your fault you freakin n00b.

No seriously, I don't mean to be a dick and my intention is just to mock the typical response people get when they're just trying to play around with linux. Good for you for trying, but I'll see you in a year or two when you, like me and countless others, decide to give it another try because "by now it should work without needing a degree in CS."

Re:I don't find Linux easy to use (yet) (1)

tomas.bjornerback (411702) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683230)

1. I did RTFM! (and I searched Google etc)
2. No, I don't expect it to be like Windows. I expect it to be like Linux with KDE! Not just command line based.
3. I DO have a degree in CS!
4. I have spent about 4 days trying.

Now, what more does it take? ;)

Re:I don't find Linux easy to use (yet) (1)

Robo210 (548438) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683116)

Oh! I know the answer to this one... source-based install with Gentoo!
Seriously though, getting the (proprietary) display adapter to work under linux is a challenge, but there are some web resources out there that might be able to help you, try google. However, I must agree that the threshold for linux is way too high for the Windows users that everybody seems to want to target, but it seems like the average linux zealot/slashdot'er believes that everybody should be able to recompile their kernel blind. Oh well, someday people will learn... improvements are starting to take place already.

Things is different (4, Informative)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683158)

Laptops are famous for being a pig to install Linux onto. Proprietory hardware and unhelpful manufacturers make driver support very difficult.

That laptop has ATI graphics and LCD, which can be a pain to setup manually (don't use modelines with 4.x X!). I'd start with 16 bit VESA at 1024x768 14" (or 1400 x 1050 15"?) native resolution. If possibly, use 4.3 XFree86 as well. If VESA works, then try looking at different ATI drivers, probably "radeon" or "ati", and 24 bit colour.

As others have suggested, maybe it's worth trying a different distro (Mandrake and SuSE are worth a crack) because they have slightly different kernels and different setup/config tools. They have setup options for LCD screens, so just choose a generic 1024x768 LCD, and VESA/radeon chipset.

Problems with X are unlikely to be kernel related, but the DVD might be. Maybe you need to use the ide-scsi cd driver, done with a kernel append line at boot time. I'll hazard a guess and say the ethernet is one either tulip or 8139too. I may be wrong, but try modprobe tulip and/or modprobe 8139too then ifconfig -a and see if eth0 is there. It might be something else, but it's worth trying.

Hope some of that helps.

You are blaming the wrong people. (1)

Malcontent (40834) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683253)

It's not the fault of Linux. If companies don't make drivers blame them. If Compaq does not provide drivers for a popular operating system blame compaq.

How can you blame Linux if compaq uses weird one off components.

Trust? (-1, Troll)

papadiablo (609676) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682927)

Yes, but can we really trust the Germans? I mean, do I even need to remind anyone how playful they've been in the past 100 years? I don't think so. I say we continue to distrust them for another 100 years.

The truth is plain to see, I love windows xp and it loves me!

BS... (5, Funny)

Plissken (666719) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682930)

Linux harder to use than XP? Bollocks! When I first tried XP, I couldn't find the gnome menu! I wanted to burn a cd, and I heard about Windows XP's drag and drop burning, so I tried to get to /mnt/cdrom! But XP has it so D: is my cdrom. When I went hunting for my copy of PuTTY, it was in C:\Program Files\PuTTY! I was expecting to find it in /usr/local/bin ! Those stupid people at Microsoft, why couldn't they have made Windows more like linux?

Re:BS... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683082)

Take your meds, byteboyz ... then back in the closet with you ta grope yer fav electromechanic blo-up dolly. SLAMshut.

Regular Troll (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6682937)

KDE owns GNOME sucks.

Software installation still a stumbling block (4, Insightful)

AvantLegion (595806) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682943)

Windows: Install new software. Shortcut to program is made in the Start Menu (virtually guaranteed, unless you tell the installer not to).

KDE: Install new software. Shortcut to program is... well, depends. Is it a KDE app, or a GNOME or X app? What distribution are you using? Even if it's a KDE app, uhm, well, maybe it'll be there.

Re:Software installation still a stumbling block (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683016)

In Soviet Russia, the program makes a shortcut to you!

Re:Software installation still a stumbling block (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683023)

KDE: Install new software. Shortcut to program is... well, depends

I think even this is too generous, when you say "install" I think you mean: "download .tar.gz file, go to command line, uncompress it, configure it, build it (hope it builds), THEN install it (using command line of course), THEN figure out how to run it"

Re:Software installation still a stumbling block (2, Insightful)

Penguin Follower (576525) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683234)

You do know that the newest redhat & mandrake distros have an "add/remove programs" now right? Now, I think you still have to have all the rpms to satisfy dependencies, but at least you have a GUI to work with for newbs. I still use the command line for such tasks so I haven't had any experience with the add/remove apps other than I noticed it was there ;)

Re:Software installation still a stumbling block (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683094)

You forgot, hope you have the pre-requisite packages, hope that they install properly, type make, hope there are no errors, pray to GOD you can figure out how to fix those errors, search through endless documents for help, then get the thing installed and have no idea where it is.

Re:Software installation still a stumbling block (2, Informative)

Ambassador Kosh (18352) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683164)

Open kpackage on any debian based system. Click on the app(s) you want and tell it to install and it will find other needed stuff for you and do it.

Use Yast2, up2date, urpmi etc and they will all do something very similar. Overall newbies do not need to b downloading items manually to install stuff.

Packages made by those dists also install into the correct menus so that should not be an issue.

If you really want a super simple to install system for users have them use lindows and pay the yearly fee and they can click to install any program online which is just a wrapper for apt-get

Re:Software installation still a stumbling block (1)

Advocadus Diaboli (323784) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683204)

Windows: It frequently tells me that the DLLs on my system are newer than the one to be installed and I have to make a decision what should happen, even not knowing what side effects my decision will cause.

Linux: Thanks to a good packet management I install things easily. No questions that put me in a Catch22 situation.

But that is not the point! Installation of software is a thing that I do once and after I did it I use this software. So I think that the installation process should be excluded from a "usability test". As you see from my example above there are different point of views. And if I compare for example the usability of a Mercedes and a BMW I usally don't bother how difficult it is to install a radio or a GPS module, that is job of my car service center and I just use it.

I said that before (4, Insightful)

rzbx (236929) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682946)

"...but the wording of the system and program messages could use some more clarity."

I used to say the same thing about Windows back in the day. Especially all those errors that simply gave you some akward number (or error code). I remember not even knowing which program had the error or if it was the OS. I agree though, system messages almost always need more clarity.

Re:I said that before (1)

joonasl (527630) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683093)

My personal favorite is the error message I get on my W2K machine at work every now and then when a program crashes..

The memeory could not be "read"(sic)

what's this "reading" anyway?

But what about... (1, Insightful)

Mostly Harmless (48610) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682960)

While I agree that Linux may not be far behind on the usability scale, there are two important points that need to be made. First, Linux is way more difficult to install than Windows XP. The point is moot on a preinstalled system, granted, but it's still valid. Second, it's easier for the average user to obtain help with a problem. Chances are, the kid next door can fix XP, but not Linux. Address these two issues, however, and we might be on to something.

Re:But what about... (1)

useosx (693652) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683036)

If you know how to fix the second problem, you'd be a very rich man. Apple would hire you in a second.

But seriously, if Linux and OS X never break, and are completely intuitive, then the second problem goes away. Well maybe not for Linux because you're more likely to be running a box with a bad stick of RAM. Whereas Apple folks can sleep peacefully knowing they've been way overcharged for good RAM.

Re:But what about... (1)

Mostly Harmless (48610) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683126)

I'd mod your post funny if I could. But I'm not just talking about breaking, neccessarily. What about installing drivers and such? Granted, I *gasp* haven't ran Linux for quite some time (and I can't wait to do so again), but if things are done the same way, installing packages is not nearly as easy on Linux as on Windows. Then again, software doesn't break as much on Linux as on windows...

Re:But what about... (1)

Malcontent (40834) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683221)

For most distributions installing packages is easier then windows.

With windows you first have to find the program. Maybe you buy it, maybe you go to and search for it. Next you have to download it and save it to some directory. Next you need to unzip it (oops you did install winzip and pay for it didn't you?). Next you need to install it.

With linux you just do an apt-get install packagename.

Re:But what about... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683183)

Apple folks can sleep peacefully knowing they've been way overcharged for good RAM

Don't forget SUN and their overpriced NICs!!!

I would never buy more than the base RAM in a Mac. Buy the cheap 'unreliable' ram and then blow the difference on drinks. Then, in the unlikely event that your computer crashes anyway, you'll be too hammered to care!

Re:But what about... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683141)

It varies - GNU/Linux can be easier (look at knoppix) or a real bitch with strange (typically cheap) hardware. The comparason is normally preinstalled 'doze Vs Install GNU/linux dualboot - obviously the latter requires some attention, but the resizing tools exist and are maturing.

I've been plesantly supprised by finding kids that can do GNU/Linux stuff - including a 10 year old :).
A bigger issue is hardware support - some things will never be supported, so some users will have more functionality under windows :-/ . Shit happens.
We are on to something - GNU/Linux usage has lots of momentum and is growing fast. Unfortunately it seems that most of the momentum is on the open-source and low cost and not on the freedom of the software - as a consequence I doubt copyright/patent law is likely to get rebalanced any time soon. Damn conditioned consumers.

But KDE still has its high points (1)

gotr00t (563828) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682968)

Out of the box, there are bound to be some major qwirks that will take some time to get used to in KDE, as well as major problems and annoyances, but one thing that they do not mention is the fact that even without modifying source, KDE is very configuarble, to the point where you can tweak the very basic elements of the UI.

I admit that Windows is rather universal, and its made for a variety of tastes, but after using my version of KDE for all this time, there are many annoyances in Windows (like double clicking the titlebar to shade instead of maximze/minimize), that I simply cannot get rid of. In the rare circumstance that I must use Windows for some reason, I must get used to it, not the other way around, which is what I prefer.

Linux usability has to go up for games (1)

Sivaram_Velauthapill (693619) | more than 11 years ago | (#6682972)

If games are to become successful, the desktop has to improve. GNU/Linux isn't at the stage where a typical user can install stuff, remove things, etc. For instance, there are quite a few applications that install but don't put links on the menus. Newbies will have no idea how to run these problems. Perhaps what's making this bad is the fact that the distros haven't standardized the path locations. I just wish that all the distros follow the path standards. Right now, you have to spend some time to find out where stuff are installed. For example, do you know where the desktop screensaver is?

Sivaram Velauthapillai

Re:Linux usability has to go up for games (1)

bersl2 (689221) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683047)

/usr/lib/xscreensaver/* /usr/bin/xscreensaver*

Verifying... done.

Now, where's my doggy treat?

Germans on KDE? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6682990)

Wow, a German consulting firm hypes up KDE. Whats next, the German government switches to SuSE? Oh wait, that already happened.

Wake up, people. It is a global competition and we should be building our companies not destroying them. What other government goes around suing their own compaines? It is ridiculous. The Germans, on the other hand, are extremely nationalistic and together with the rest of the U.S.-hating EU they plan to overpower our culture and our identity with their own.

So unless you want to wear clogs and eat sauerkraut all day, I suggest you start changing your ignorant "rebel" attitudes before it is too late. Hey well at least I guess the beer will be better ;)

Please mod parent as troll (0)

slovin8 (579527) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683063)

Did you actually take a look at the 90+ pages report? Do you have objections over its findings? If you do then let's hear them please. Everything is illustrated there, the methodology and the implementation with a very thrugh and professional analysis and a conclusion with many areas of constructive critism to KDE/Linux usability.

Re:Troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683193)

KDE is a global project.
US culture is currently the overpowering one - Hollywood, Music, McObesity, Media related paranoia etc.

4.3 meg pdf? (1)

ratfynk (456467) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683045)

I just tried to load the blinking pdf, it is 4.3 meg what the heck did they translate it with babal fish?
Acrobat reader 6 crashed, windows froze and all hell broke loose! I guess I will just have to use KDE and xpdf to read it reboot time. :-(

Re:4.3 meg pdf? (1)

presroi (657709) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683080)

When I read the German version, I remember that almost every page contained many pictures, screenshots and all these things which will blow up the file size.

IMHO, presenting pictures in a usability study *is* justified and on my crappy system, Acrobat Reader survived, btw.

umm... (1)

ottothecow (600101) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683056)

the original article said that they used computer litterate people with no experiance on linux, and the same for windows although they didnt specify for windows, they said the same.

My question is where did they find experianced computer users with no windows experiance whatsoever. I know people who have never owned a PC and always had macs but they still have no problems with windows whatsoever (and virtualPC means they could have windows too). That goes double for linux users, I dont know any linux users who havnt run windows on a computer. I dont see any feasible way for this test to be conducted except by people who have never used a computer, but then the results would be worthless since they would spend too much time sitting in awe.

Re:umm... (0)

slovin8 (579527) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683072)

The study said "No prior experince with Windows XP". Therefore, anyone who used 95/98/Me/NT/2000 and never used XP is elligible.

Coming Back (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683081)

Having used linux for long time, then abruptly stopping, I am about to experience the usability of linux all over again. I started on a Mac, then went to Windows, then Windows AND Linux, then just Linux, then Windows crept back in again until I found myself with one lonely linux box that I never used.

Being somewhat stunned by how easily I had forsaken linux for windows, I decided just today to change my situation. Being disallusioned with both Debian and RH, I am installing slackware right now. If that lets me down, I have FreeBSD ready to install also.

Windows does not really fail me, I actually get more work done on Windows 2000 ( I do web development and graphics, no games and no MS Office )than I ever did on Linux, but it certainly does bore me. I guess I miss tinkering with the systems more than anything, and I also miss Fluxbox!

Wish me luck, maybe I will be able to give Linux tips to friends once again with my head held high. It kind of sucks to say "Well, I only run windows now but the file you are looking for is in /etc/hosts" when you do not even run linux anymore.

Here is hoping I can rejoin the ranks of geeks, don't let me down Slack!

Linux (1)

VistaBoy (570995) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683107)

KDE is pretty nice, but really if you're going to migrate someone to Linux, you really should do them a favor and load up XPde first, and then once they learn the hierarchy you should show them the super-convienient Enlightenment or WindowMaker. Those GUIs are pretty fast compared to clunky Windows-ripoff desktop environments, and once you get used to using alt-shortcuts, it's too hard to quit. Also, WindowMaker and Enlightenment are efficient. You may be able to give a technically-inept person a well-configured WindowMaker environment that only has the necessities in the right-click menu.

If you simplified WindowMaker's right-click menu for someone, it would make a pretty nice beginner's platform for Linux, since there are no annoying and intimidating buttons all over the place, and the menu would be quick and simple to find the program you want.

KDE is pretty good, but once you go WindowMaker or Enlightenment, it becomes less and less easy to convince yourself to go through the KDE loading process and be greeted by buttons everywhere and a pretty clunky interface.

I apologize to anyone who uses KDE on a regular basis, but really we're supposed to take a step forward with Linux, and the rather inconvienient loading time coupled with a pretty clunky and inconvienient interface is no step or a step backwards.

I anticipate the modding down of this post.

Re:Linux (0)

slovin8 (579527) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683122)

"I anticipate the modding down of this post." Gee, ya'd think? Let's see what you say: "KDE is really really nice with a pretty clunky interface" "KDE is pretty good, but we better off using something else" "KDE is god-like! but I'm a troll"

gauranteed to get modded down every time (1)

gfody (514448) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683211)

just copy my sig
it really works! just look at my history :)

I use both (1, Interesting)

Cat_Byte (621676) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683139)

Between Windows and Redhat I find myself rebooting Redhat way more than my Windows 2K box due to it hard locking when I try to run too many Gnome apps. GUIs are still pretty buggy in *nix and ease of installation and running programs needs to be integrated. Once they get that right maybe more apps will be written for it.

There are just too many bugs. Using Redhat9 to connect to an NT4 share via Samba is buggy as hell. The first connection works great. After that I practically have to reboot to get back into the share again. I find that very user unfriendly. New users are mainly turned away when they can't even figure out how to install an app. I was really confused when I first started. I could download to my home directory & make a new folder to put it in, had to spend 15 minutes looking up how to unzip it with tar (man tar made it sound like it was only used for tape backups), went to the folder and stared blankly and the directory listing. It turned out I was supposed to know you have to type:
make depend
make install
OK did that....where the hell is it?

It's a long and rocky road to learn *nix and unfortunately /. shows how snobby and childish 99% of them are so finding help is almost impossible.

Re:I use both (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683170)

CTRL-ALT-BKSPCE restarts X and not your machine.

Sounds like your installation/configuration did not go well.

Although, I agree that *nix can seem needlessly cumbersome, it doesn't have to be. Look at OS X(my new favorite OS). I believe that in order to truly be used by Joe Home User(I think Linux is ready for Joe Work User), then the simple alternatives to the *nix way of doing some things(ie. installing software) have to be refined. This is not say that the command line and compiler should go away, but there needs to be
a clear well-understood path to installing binary applications for Joe Home User.

Re:I use both (1)

Cat_Byte (621676) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683269)

Yeah I found out about the CTRL-ALT-BKSPCE awhile back but thanks for the tip. The problem is I'm hard locking...not just the GUI or the mouse...the whole machine stops responding. I think it could be a memory leak in Gnome. I know it's not an IRQ conflict. It only happens when I run more than 5 apps in Gnome at a time. This also happens (altho not quite as frequently) on another *nix box I have running FreeBSD with KDE.

Anyway, thanks for the tip. I'll get back on topic now ;)

Re:I use both (4, Funny)

Malcontent (40834) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683270)

Why are you compiling with redhat? Why not install with an RPM?

Honestly people like should not use linux. Stick to windows, you'll be much happier and you won't be bothering those snobby and childish people. As you are well aware windows users and much more adult and sophisticated and will drop eveything to rush and help you out. Why give up a supportive environment like windows? It just does not make any sense.

Tests of familiarity and similarity, not usability (4, Insightful)

The Revolutionary (694752) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683146)

Many of these tests are tests of familiarity and similarity, not strictly of usability. At least this is my impression, browsing the report.

Remember, these are users who, while they have "No experience with Windows XP" , are also not beginning computer users (but not expert computer users).

It is quite possible that even if a Mac OS X system were also tested, that the Windows system would score higher, despite Mac OS X having better usability, strictly speaking. This would be the case unless the usability of the Mac OS X system were sufficiently superior in usability, that it could overcome the advantage of the Windows system due to its familiarity.

Given this, that the Linux-based system did as well as it did is truly a testament to the quality of these open source environments.

On page eight (8) we see that task two (2) is to:
- use a text editor to enter some specified text
- "Format the first line as a centered heading"
- "Add page numbers on right hand upper margin of the page"
- "Print the document"
- "Save document as 'Potter.doc' in WORD format in your personal folder"
- "Close the program"

The user's success with the Linux-based system, for this task, will depend largely upon how closely the Linux-based system's word processors resemble word processors in the Windows environment. This test does evaluate usability, but strict usability here, is secondary to familiarity.

Surely these users will have some -- if not extensive -- experience with Microsoft Word, or even Wordpad. No doubt these workers also have experience performing these very tasks in this Windows environment.

On page nine (9) we see task six (6):
- "Open the email application"
- "You have received a new mail which mentions the date of an appointment"
- "Have a look at the organizer and see whether you are still free on that date"
- "If that date is still availab le, please enter the appointment".

It seems certain here that the user's success with the Linux-based system, for this task, will depend largely upon how similar the Linux-based system's email/groupware client is to Mircosoft Outlook Express, or Microsoft Outlook.

One last question: why does the KDE system as pictured in the report not have text below the "quicklaunch" icons? Wouldn't this significantly improve a new user's ability to quickly identify and launch the tool needed?

I do not know what a "blue dog house" means, what a "red lifesaver" means, or what a "K overlayed upon a sproket" means. I can probably make an educated guess given some previous experience with KDE, but that is hardly accessible.

Am I missing something?

Well, it's not really a test of JUST Linux, either (2, Informative)

dodell (83471) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683249)

Yes, you *are* missing something. Sure, the system in Linux based, but it's using open tools. In effect, this is just a test on systems that are able to run KDE and KDE-based applications. It does, therefore, apply to pretty much every version of Linux as well as FreeBSD (I'm not sure about the other BSDs' support for KDE, though I wouldn't expect it too far behind). Hell, even having a system start up KDE in cygwin would fit this description.

Re:Tests of familiarity and similarity, not usabil (1)

The Revolutionary (694752) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683266)

To be clear, the report states as much, but I thought it might have been helpful to pull out a few examples for those who do not have the time to read the report.

From page eleven (11),

"The testing scenario tries to recreate the following situation: A company or a public office is migrating to Linux on desktop. The employees are using computers for their daily office routines, i.e. they are experienced in using applications and the Windows operating system."

Also, I found the following compliment on page eleven (11) to be particularly flattering (er, of the open source solution),

"Linux applications show an outstanding configurability and can be adapted according to the taste and experience of the user. Hence, it was the aim in configuring the system to make the most of every possibility offered by KDE and the applications in order to make the test system as usable as possible."

In Soviet Russia... (-1, Redundant)

TheWordOfB (696275) | more than 11 years ago | (#6683191)

Useability reports translate YOU!

World domination (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6683235)

It's been a while since I've heard someone scream out "World domination" on slashdot. Oh well.... WORLD DOMINATION!!
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