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XFree86 Fork Gets a Name, Website

michael posted more than 11 years ago | from the politics dept.

X 647

Piethein Strengholt writes "Today the Xfree86 fork is a fact. A new project has started and is located at: xouvert.org. Xouvert has been started due to the corporate structure and the slow development of XFree86. They hope to reduce the risk to XFree86 of incorporating new drivers and features."

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FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717385)

No bots

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Re:FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717400)

this is just another evil attempt by Micro$oft to monopolize the industry.

Re:FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717544)

OMG, my first attempt at a FP and I made it. My mom will be so proud. I'll tell her when she calls me upstairs for dinner.

That's nice, but... (4, Funny)

pongo000 (97357) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717389)

...how the hell do you pronounce it?

Re:That's nice, but... (2, Informative)

BrainInAJar (584756) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717395)

ZOO-VERT.

Re:That's nice, but... (1, Redundant)

remahl (698283) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717398)

RTFA:
Zoo-vehrt

Re:That's nice, but... (4, Funny)

pongo000 (97357) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717422)

To forestall all the RTFA comments:

Yeah, I know how to pronounce it. But let's say I'm talking to a friend on the phone:

"So, you really gotta check out Xouvert."
"Zoo-what?"
"Xouvert!"
"How do you spell that?"
"X-O-U-V-E-R-T"
"Oh...wouldn've never guessed that on my own."

Giving projects you wish to succeed names that invite misspelling isn't a very good idea.

Re:That's nice, but... (4, Funny)

rjrjr (28310) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717566)

Yeah, this has been a real nightmare for the Ganoo guys.

rjrjr

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

Karamchand (607798) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717574)

zoovert.org is still available, as well as suvert.org and zuwert.org :-)

Re:That's nice, but... (3, Funny)

fritter (27792) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717607)

Giving projects you wish to succeed names that invite misspelling isn't a very good idea.

What do you mean? It worked great for Gigli!

Re:That's nice, but... (2, Informative)

efatapo (567889) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717613)

I could be mistaken but isn't that how /. came around? Hrm, and now that I check my sources the faq [slashdot.org] says:

I wanted to make the URL silly, and unpronounceable.
So, I guess it has worked before :)

~Dan
http://www.pbase.com/efatapo [pbase.com]

Re:That's nice, but... (0, Redundant)

gaj (1933) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717425)

I know this was a joke (or at least I hope so), but a quick click (i.e. RTFA) would have told you.

Xouvert is pronounced zoo-vert.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled blather.

Re:That's nice, but... (0, Redundant)

geeveees (690232) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717440)

RTFA ;)

Zoo-vehrt.

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

whovian (107062) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717442)

I was thinking EKS-oh-VERT, and then I turned on the francophone chip in my positronic brain and voiced zoo-VAIRE.

Re:That's nice, but... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717502)

You sure it didn't say "surrender!" ?

Re:That's nice, but... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717452)

You're a dumbfuck American right? Cause only dumbfuck Americans who only know English would ask something stupid like that.

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

niko9 (315647) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717455)

"How do you pronounce it?

Zoo-vehrt.


You big malaka.

Dino:"Hello, pretty lady. Tell me something, what's a beatiful braud like you doing with a malaka like this, huh?"
Gary: "She's into malakas, Dino".

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

dupper (470576) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717458)

Xouvert? Let's break it down:

X - from X windowing system
Ouvert - French for 'open'

Thus, it is probably 'shoovair', or however the phonetic thing works.

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

vidnet (580068) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717471)

Partial credit :p

What kind of a name is Xouvert?

Xouvert is named after the ancient Babylonian goddess of open windows, wooden digging implements, and moonlight. A notorious ritual among the higher levels of Freemasonry has kept her memory alive until now. Xouvert, awake!

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717598)

What kind of a name is Xouvert?

"It's Xouvert sir"

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

snofla (236898) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717491)

Why not call it: XFreedom?

Re:That's nice, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717527)

I concur. Why go for a fancy-smancy-frenchy style of name?

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

IIH (33751) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717490)

..how the hell do you pronounce it?

It's a little tricky as the x is pronounced as 'by' as in 4x3 = 12, but the rest is as it looks, resulting in the full word being proounced "By oh you vert!"

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

mckayc (307712) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717517)

When I saw the name I thought it was pronounced X-OO-VERT where X was for "X Windows" and Ouvert was French for "Open" ... but I realized I was wrong after reading the website :)

Re:That's nice, but... (2, Funny)

rendermaniac (688883) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717534)

carefully?

Re:That's nice, but... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717556)

Maybe we should ask the guy who barfed up "Touareg"

Rhymes with Q*Bert (1)

SunPin (596554) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717576)

Didn't you know? Sheesh...

Humor aside, this is a shining example of how open source alienates ordinary people.

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717592)

Does "thou fart" work too ? It's easier to remember ...

word (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717391)

word up

SlashNot? (-1, Offtopic)

isoga (670113) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717392)

Why not do something productive with yor Sunday morning, rather than just reading the same old Slashdot news? There are lots better things you could be doing:
  • Using your knowledge and expertise to help other people. Not least, it's easy to show your support to various worthy causes and help get the countries decision makers to do some good. Here are some ideas:
    • Fed up of car alarms (especially in New York)? Then check out these people [transalt.org] and some background. [homelinux.net] They have useful information that can be used to support a car alarm ban and show that there are much better ways of preventing car theft.
    • Everyone knows nerds are fueled by coffee - And most people are kinda aware that coffee-growers are getting ripped off by the big coffee buyers, causing them to face job loss and starvation as well as environmental degradation - Shoot Procter and Gamble an eFax [sojo.net] asking them to invest in 'Fair Trade' [fairtradefederation.com] Coffee.
  • Start a new hobby!
  • Otherwise.....

;) dave

Re:SlashNot? (-1, Offtopic)

grug0 (696014) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717406)

Well thanks for assuming I live in your timezone, that I want to do any of these things and that you know better than me about how I can spend my time.

Re:SlashNot? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717414)

that there are much better ways of preventing car theft

Like giving them negroes a job? Fuck you. Too bad if your sleep gets disturbed when one of those junglebunnies tries to steal my Dodge.

Re:SlashNot? (-1, Offtopic)

black88 (559855) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717434)

Shouldn't you be fucking your sister right about now, you inbred, racist CUNT?

Re:SlashNot? (-1, Offtopic)

NickFitz (5849) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717476)

He can't, she left with that charming, witty, intelligent black guy from down the road. You know, the doctor.

Re:SlashNot? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717415)

wtf? i just got home after a night of drinking and humping the booties of fat chicks. and i have to read this?

damn, i got cum stains on my pants. ah well.

Re:SlashNot? (-1, Offtopic)

pair-a-noyd (594371) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717454)

Um, how about you?
Practice what you preach..

xwin.org (2, Informative)

ultrabot (200914) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717393)

Note that this is not xwin.org... I browsed the xwin website a while ago (Keith Packards project) and people there have been complaining about how that project seems dead, while something should start happening. I applaud the effort of these guys.

Re:xwin.org (2, Interesting)

MBCook (132727) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717437)

I read somewhere (a comment on OSNews perhaps) that people have been complaining about that, and the reason that it's quite is because the GNOME people have taken over the project and trying to basically combine the two, and it's been quiet to keep people from talking/complaining/discussing what they're trying to do. An interesting idea to be sure

Is it true? Who knows, probably not. Is it an interesting rumor? Sure why not.

Re:xwin.org (1, Informative)

reynaert (264437) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717520)

On (very recently created) Xouvier page [xwin.org] on the Xwin wiki [xwin.org] , somebody made the following comment:
Shoud have added the following to the list: An attempt by corporate influences and the forces behind GNOME development to integrate technologies related to GNOME directly into the X server, providing an advantage to GNOME over all other window managers. In addition, much of the planning of this fork has been done in secret despite the supposed "openness" proclaimed by the team, and only recently has even the name of the fork been shared with the public. An overall damaging and irresponsible influence on Linux, and the open source community as a whole.
The XWin wiki doesn't seem to keep a history of changes, so I don't know who wrote that and how credible this is. I certainly hope it isn't true, it would do a lot of damage to Gnome.

Re:xwin.org (2, Informative)

reynaert (264437) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717600)

Ok, apparently there's nothing true to it. Phew :)

MOD PARENT UP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717579)

If anything to see if someone has answers. That's interesting.

Re:xwin.org (1)

burnetd (90848) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717441)

xwnin have something to do with it. They are hosting the Wiki and there's a big link at the top of the xouvert page

Re:xwin.org (3, Informative)

gaj (1933) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717456)

Apparently you didn't bother to actually read much of anything while over at xwin.org. xwin.org is, to quote the page (including the page title) "just a website".

Xouvert is the project that xwin.org was put in place to instegate.

Excellent (1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717402)

Drop the network transparency, make it run framebuffer and XFree is obsolete on desktop.

Re:Excellent (2, Insightful)

Mgdm (586001) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717429)

Nah, keep the network transparency. I use that quite a bit, as do a lot of people I know. Framebuffer would be nice though.

Re:Excellent (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717466)

You can always build network transparency on the desktop (check out all those X-clients on windows) once that's optimized.

I for one am sick of desktop performance being sacrificed to something that only benefits a fringe element of the userbase.

Re:Excellent (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717541)

That's a fine idea. The top level post seemed to want to drop it all together. BTW, how bad does network transparancy affect performance? How do you test such a thing? where are the numbers?

Re:Excellent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717559)

BTW, how bad does network transparancy affect performance? How do you test such a thing? where are the numbers?

Option 1): optimize the desktop graphics for the local AGP bus.

Option 2): check first if you have to pipe the desktop primitives via network or if you can use the local AGP bus.

Re:Excellent (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717605)

Option 2): check first if you have to pipe the desktop primitives via network or if you can use the local AGP bus.

How much time does this take? How do we know it's really significant without data?

Re:Excellent (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717603)

It doesn't affect it. The people that believe that the X protocol is hampered by network transparency are wholly ignorant of how windowing systems work. Much of the perceived "slowness" of X programs are solely within the domain of the toolkits, themes, and applications that use them. All windowing systems use IPC for communication with the windowing system. Unix domain sockets are not exactly a burden with this regard. However, if one of the ignorant supporters of the removal of network transparency could be bothered to simply implement IPC over a different mechanism (quite possible), they would notice this.

Re:Excellent (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717446)

That of course is a troll designed to hook all of the (still employed) Unix admin types.

However, X11's network transparency is just as creaky and obsolete as the rest of the beast. The security sucks, the configuration really fucking sucks, and the bandwidth and latency is just obscene when compared to Citrix Metaframe.

So, I'm tending to agree with the framebuffer trolls. X11 should drop network transparency at least until they can come with a solution that isn't so laughably obsolete.

Re:Excellent (5, Informative)

divec (48748) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717497)

However, X11's network transparency is just as creaky and obsolete as the rest of the beast. [...] the bandwidth and latency is just obscene when compared to Citrix Metaframe.

See my previous comment on NX compression [nomachine.com] . I'm typing this on Galeon running at work, displaying on my home computer over a 56K modem, because it's faster web browsing like this than running the browser locally. NX has to be seen to be believed.

The interesting thing is, this level of compression is only possible because of the high-level nature of X's network transparency - Citrix / RDP / VNC doesn't run anywhere near as fast.

Re:Excellent (3, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717460)

Dropping one of X's best features will not make X obsolete. I use this every day, I will never give it up.

Re:Excellent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717545)

And how many computer users in the world currently require network transparency? Uh-huh? And since all those 90% of computer users can cope just fine without a feature that taxes the usability of the desktop (ie. speed), why do you think this project should keep the feature?

Drop it and implement it on the user level for those who require it (just like on Windows).

Re:Excellent (4, Informative)

SilverSun (114725) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717487)

Drop the network transparency, make it run framebuffer and XFree is obsolete on desktop.

Why do people not realize, that X-Windows is NOT sucking because of network transparancy! Any possible design of a clean API for a windowing system will more or less be automatically network transparent. The only this which is not network transparent are stupid ugly hacks. That said, we all know how X sucks, but it is has definitively nothing to do with network transparancy.

Cheers

Re:Excellent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717505)

X-Windows is NOT sucking because of network transparancy!

Instead of being able to cram graphics at the local AGP bus at the maximum speed, the software has to jump through hoops to check if the data is actually destined for another computer.

Please show me some evidence that this does not slow down the GUI refresh rates? Also tell me why the Windows GUI is so much more responsive than X? In X you can see the menus and windows being drawn. In Windows you can't.

Drop Network Transparancy , and drop X (0, Redundant)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717578)

With out that, its not X anylonger, and is pretty much braindead.

Framebuffer, sure that can be a nice optional feature, but you cant drop the network components or you kill it off.

Re:Drop Network Transparancy , and drop X (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717597)

cant drop the network components or you kill it off.

Kill it off? For whom?

I've never required the network transparency and I am PISSED OFF that in comparison to the Windows desktop my Linux desktop draws like a snail.

Why not just implement a "testing" branch of X? (3, Interesting)

mhesseltine (541806) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717431)

It seems that this group wants to push the envelope of features in X. Why not just do something like the Linux kernel numbering? e.g. 2.4 -> stable, 2.5 -> testing. Then, people could make a decision as to if they wanted to run the bleeding edge in an attempt to use new features. It'd also save the hassle of building for 2 graphics systems, and merging patches between the two code bases.

On the first line of the page. (2, Informative)

FreeLinux (555387) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717477)

On the first line of the page, it says: Xouvert is an experimental branch of XFree86.

Looks like you got what you wanted.

Re:On the first line of the page. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717513)

Not really, no. Everyone associated with that project, save for the person who made the page apparently, is referring to it as a fork. And in personal conversation they're all referring to it as an eventual replacement and competitor to Xfree86.

Looks like I got what I was always afraid might happen.

This is good. (2, Interesting)

AntiOrganic (650691) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717435)

I think XFree has been lacking a lot of things for a long time, like true alpha blending between windows and such. Aside from things like the Render extension, this is a project that really hasn't gone much of anywhere in several years. Getting the features we need into the window system itself would position Linux much more prominently on the desktop.

Re:This is good. (1)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717461)

I think XFree has been lacking a lot of things for a long time, like true alpha blending between windows and such.

Furthermore it is likely that ideas which are useful will be integrated to the other fork, as we see with SAMBA and SAMBA TNG. This may very well be good for all parties involved.

I hope they integrate NX compression (5, Interesting)

divec (48748) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717436)

If they're trying to include useful third party contributions, they could do worse than include NX [nomachine.com] , a revolutionary new compression and proxying technology that makes it possible to run an X session over a 9600 modem at a useable speed. But I didn't completely understand their policy on licences (the NX infrastructure is GPLed, whereas X is under the MIT licence).

Re:I hope they integrate NX compression (4, Informative)

listen (20464) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717507)

Only the proxy is GPLed, the Xlib stuff is X11. The proxy is a separate program, so thats ok.

What is really needed is a driver for the XServer that will duplicate the current X command stream. This could then be sent to the NX proxy, and actually use it as a remote desktop. Also could use VNC, and it could also be useful for providing desktop pagers with full update capability.

Re:I hope they integrate NX compression (1)

divec (48748) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717536)

What is really needed is a driver for the XServer that will duplicate the current X command stream. This could then be sent to the NX proxy, and actually use it as a remote desktop.


If I'm understanding you correctly, that's exactly what "nxagent" does - it appears on your local machine as a remote desktop, either in a window or full-screen. A "rootless" option, which will run individual remote applications under your local window manager, is apparently on the way.

Re:I hope they integrate NX compression (4, Interesting)

listen (20464) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717601)

No. You've completely misunderstood.

I am talking about exporting your whole local session to another box. The server side, not the client side. The server side of NX makes a whole other X server, ie a new session. I'm talking about taking your normal X session, and exporting that.

Look at KDEs remote desktop feature. At the moment, it is a horrible hack, which takes screen shots and uses the VNC protocol to send them over the network. In an ideal world, it would just connect to the X server, say "I want all the drawing commands from now on.", and the X server would send that, which would be then translated to VNC or RFB or NX. This would be far less heavy weight, and far more responsive.

NDAs? What the FUCK?!?!?! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717438)

Non-disclosure agreements (to provide video card specifications, for instance) are strictly between individual developers

Are they really saying that they will gladly pollute pure XFree open source with NDAs?

Has RMS commented on this yet? Somebody sure should tell him.

I'm going to boycott these guys as long as it takes for them to "get it".

Re:NDAs? What the FUCK?!?!?! (2, Interesting)

dmp123 (547038) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717474)

Perhaps it's *YOU* who should 'get it'.

Had you RTFA properly, you'd have seen the next line says

"All code that enters the project is under the standard X11 license, or compatible free license as specified by the Free Software Foundation."

See, that's not so bad, is it?
Seriously, I don't particularly like NDAs, but as long as the source code is 'free', then it's really not a problem IMHO.

David

Re:NDAs? What the FUCK?!?!?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717488)

Really? Well, just tell me how does an NDA fit with open source?

Open source means that everything is in the open. No dirty links to binary-only libraries. You think that's OK? Then you're with the traitors, the conforminsts who are slowly, piece by piece, selling the greatest software ideology in the history, the best hope for truly free software out of the reach of the capitalist and oppressive corporate world, to the enemy.

Unless you're with us, you are selling the future of your fellow man to the money. How does that make you feel - traitor?

Re:NDAs? What the FUCK?!?!?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717611)

I hope you're not being serious, because otherwise you might be the biggest loser in the world. What's the big deal about the NDA? It allows developers to get a look at the specs of certain pieces of hardware (i.e. video cards) and write drivers based on those specs that are open and free. Big deal.

Re:NDAs? What the FUCK?!?!?! (1)

Joe Tennies (564856) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717480)

XFree is under the X License (fairly similar to the BSD license). There is currently no issue with making drivers that are binary only. The only place you can't put in binary drivers is the Linux Kernel (as it is GPLed).

Re:NDAs? What the FUCK?!?!?! (1)

sithlord2 (261932) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717538)



I thought there was an exception for kernel-modules.

For those who don't know... (5, Informative)

nomis80 (181676) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717439)

"ouvert" means "open" in French.

Re:For those who don't know... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717551)


SLASHDOT SUCKS, LUNIX SI TEH GHEY and *BSD IS DYING!

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French? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717575)

So would it be safe to say they are *overtly* trying to to draw a connection in the public's mind between the xouvert project and the Quebec separatists?

Because that was my first thought, dunno about anyone else...

Ouvert == Overt (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717588)

I guess the only question left is can the French write code as well as they fight?

Well then.. (-1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717447)

For a project that's open, they certainly kept it secret for quite a while. I find it rather amusing that they proclaim to be less closed than the XFree86 project, yet it is clear that a major part of their planning has been done in such a closed manner that even the (terrible) name of the project hasn't even been made public until now.

Should be interesting. (2, Funny)

FreeLinux (555387) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717449)

By doing release early, release often, we hope to reduce the risk to Xfree86 of incorporating new drivers and features.

Translated: By doing release early, release often, we should be able to produce a window system that is buggy enough to rival Windows 95a.

ore yuo coudl po0p! (-1)

cmdr_shithead (527909) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717450)

big brawn shitse

The Xouvert name (2, Funny)

reynaert (264437) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717465)

What kind of a name is Xouvert?
Xouvert is named after the ancient Babylonian goddess of open windows, wooden digging implements, and moonlight. A notorious ritual among the higher levels of Freemasonry has kept her memory alive until now. Xouvert, awake!
Or maybe, just maybe, "ouvert" is the French word for "open". Bunch of wankers.

What? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717468)

"They hope to reduce the risk to XFree86 of incorporating new drivers and features" ????

Idea dislexia? Are they really trying prevent new drivers and features?

Heh, if that were the case, I suppose they could stop at their name change and say they're done:)

Huh? (1, Funny)

dorker (248189) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717472)

Reading the article title it sounds like the fork is named "website".

Name sucks. (4, Insightful)

Chromodromic (668389) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717496)

... From a marketing standpoint. That's it. It's hard to immediately discern how it's pronounced, it's got seven uneven letters, it's relatively long and it has no obvious immediate meaning or collection of related possible meanings based on the roots of the word.

So what if 'ouvert' is 'open' in French. I didn't know that. Lot's of people don't know that. Learning that doesn't make you go "ooooo, that's so cool". It just makes you go, "oh".

Open source projects, especially projects of any magnitude should try, from time to time, for some true open source marketing. Unfortunately, engineers, no matter how smart they may be at one thing, are frequently not as smart as they think they are at many things, and so they drop the ball in some areas. This is a decent example.

Of course, 'Vim' and 'Emacs' aren't exactly stellar examples of naming, either, but on the other hand they haven't had much success outside certain circles, and they're both pretty amazing editors. Someone might say that has more to do with their vertical learning curves compared to, for example, 'Word' but their names certainly didn't help ...

Right you are. (4, Insightful)

FreeLinux (555387) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717568)

I've often said that open source software projects need to do better or at least some marketing. Seemingly little details mean a lot.

For example, most commercially marketed software packages have web sites whose opening page clearly dewscribes the function of the software and then goes on to elaborate on what the software can do for you. Conversly, most open source project homepages start with a change log. Compounded by the fact that most have rediculous names that are not at all intuitive, many do not describe what the software does in a sensible fashion. Then worst of all they go on to compare their incomplete feature set with Windows, gleefully noting "Soon" or "In Progress" next to the missing feature.

You've got to put a marketing spin on your project if you want people to use it. Always highlight and stress its features and strengths. Never advertise its weaknesses. Don't compare the project to better or more feature rich works. If you must offer comparisons, compare the project with known products that are indeed inferior in quality or feature sets and use products that are generally well known ion the comparisons. Finally, and this is perhaps most important, bury the zealotry. DO NOT so much as imply that people should use your project because this other one sucks. If you must post this type of zealotry, save it for the developers page, somewhere that regular users should have NO reason to ever go.

Re:Name sucks. (2, Insightful)

zzendpad (84506) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717573)

I've been saying for quite a long time that I think this is a big reason that Ogg Vorbis has not caught on. And people can argue all they want, claiming that it has caught on... But it really hasn't.

Re:Name sucks. (4, Insightful)

fiddlesticks (457600) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717590)

Name sucks...from a US English viewpoint, you mean

Many people (gasp!) don't have English as their first language - or do, but speak other languages - certainly enough to know that 'ouvert' means 'open'

Many other people don't judge apps by their name, either.

WHY? (-1, Offtopic)

acegik (698112) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717499)

Really? Do we need it? Another OS? No wonder their website finds it important to tell us how to pronounce it, they couldnt find a better thing to write about... We already have Windows, Linux, Unix, Free BSD and more and more... The more OS the lesser the chance of good compatibility in the computer world. I say improve the one we have!

Re:WHY? (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717510)

XFree86 is not an operating system. Neither is its fork, Xouvert.

Re:WHY? (1)

MoronGames (632186) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717516)

It's not an OS, it's an X server.

Re:WHY? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717602)

Are you really that stupid?

Drop XFree86, use Y instead (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717512)

Frankly, it may be worth jettisoning a lot of the XFree86 baggage and starting anew.

Y [ic.ac.uk] , an X Windows replacement, looks extremely well designed and this guy wrote a pretty complete implementation for his thesis.

Why not port the useful bits of X - like the hardware drivers - over to this already-established well-designed base instead of trying to hack XFree86 into something of similar quality?

(Well, the obvious answer, ``to keep the applications`` is fair enough. But a compatibility module wouldn't be too hard, and worth the benefit in the long run.)

Re:Drop XFree86, use Y instead (1)

Wolfbone (668810) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717604)

Interesting, I'll have a closer look at this later and it reminded me of the Berlin project (renamed to Fresco). [fresco.org]

Their release policy (1)

dodell (83471) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717514)

I think for them to put out a good product, they should not hope to "release early, release often" but to "release quality, not quantity". Many projects have gone under because the products are buggy. If the developers always feel pressured to get lots of code out there very fast, they're going to be releasing buggy code that they never get time to fix.

Branch not fork (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717528)

So I just checked out the IRC channel, and they emphasized that Xouvert is an experimental branch of X, not a fork.

My one worry is gone: Licensing (5, Insightful)

ciaran_o_riordan (662132) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717535)

My biggest worry about this fork was that the developers were going to announce a "practical" approach to drivers, one that would include non-free drivers etc.

From the website:
"All code that enters the project is under the standard X11 license, or compatible free license as specified by the Free Software Foundation"

Public mailing lists should have been the method of communication for the xfree developers right from the start. This is great news. The use of Arch as the version control system is iceing on the cake.

Ciaran O'Riordan

Poor choice of name. How about a re-think? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6717558)

Before this project gets any further, how about a re-think of the choice of name. I'm rather tired of seeing projects with stupid, hard to pronounce / remember names derived from ancient mythological or pagan cultures. Just pick a nice, friendly, high-concept name, people! What was wrong with "Xwin"? Or how about "Xfree86-NG" (next generation) Or perhaps "OpenX11" even. (and drop the silly '86' part that is no longer relevant).

The Xouvert homepage states: "Xouvert is named after the ancient Babylonian goddess of open windows, wooden digging implements, and moonlight. A notorious ritual among the higher levels of Freemasonry has kept her memory alive until now. Xouvert, awake!"

Stuff like this is just asking to offend peoples' beliefs--especially those who see Freemasonry as an occultic religion. So I say again: lose the silly religious / pagan overtones.

I see the point of this.. (1, Interesting)

FxChiP (687923) | more than 11 years ago | (#6717571)

XFree86 does seem a little bit bulky and slow to me. Like the Xouvert website said, it's going mainly towards stability rather than new features. Stability is all well and good, but you DO need fresh new features (or "new blood" as that site might say) every so often.

I'm not sure that the X source can legally BE forked (I know nothing about licenses), but even if it can, I'd rather have the Xouvert guys put in a brand new implementation using the same X protocol but much different code implementing it. It might be faster, and maybe even more stable (or easier to stabilize). Or maybe it'll go to hell because they can't code. Either way, it would still be a nice way to prove whether the fork was really necessary and worth it. There's another word I'm looking for but I can't remember what it is...

Just my two cents...
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