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Itagaki Criticizes Dead Or Alive Hackers

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the begone-darth-maul dept.

XBox (Games) 32

Thanks to GameSpy for their interview with Tecmo's Tomonobu Itagaki, creator of the Dead Or Alive series and the forthcoming Ninja Gaiden for Xbox. Itagaki is asked about the more creative, non-nude unofficial character model hacking currently being done for Dead Or Alive, and says "First of all I think that those hackers should spend their time on something more productive. I'm not talking about a rights issue or an OS issue or whatever, but if they have time to hack into something that other people have made, why don't they make something of their own?" When it's suggested that many games want to be modded by their fans, he adds: "Of course the creators of DOOM and Half-Life - that was their intention. That's how they want the users to enjoy playing their game, and I have no problem with that."

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Uh oh. (1)

lidocaineus (661282) | more than 10 years ago | (#6782655)

No doubt he will be ripped to shreds on /.

Shinobi WIN! (-1, Offtopic)

Chexsum (583832) | more than 10 years ago | (#6782713)

Ninja Gaiden was lousy compared to Shinobi! Sounds like this guy knows that as he has nothing good to say about the original Ninja Gaiden. :)

http://users.rcn.com/zap.dnai/ (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6782745)

http://users.rcn.com/zap.dnai/

lol - stop whining, whiny (3, Interesting)

DrSkwid (118965) | more than 10 years ago | (#6782871)

Itagaki: Of course the creators of DOOM and Half-Life -- that was their intention. That's how they want the users to enjoy playing their game, and I have no problem with that.

If I recall correctly DOOM wasn't made with mods in mind. Stuff like "make the mobs into pac-man" were hacks similar to the DOA-Volleyball stuff. Some time and effort went into .WAD hacking and soon iD cottoned on and went with it.

The guy is really out of touch with gamers. We were peeking and poking and hexediting games back in the 8bit days and no doubt even Spacewars had some people fiddling with the binary to make themselves invulnerable or something.

I love the nude hacks for DOA, more stupidity added on to a stupid game.

Re:lol - stop whining, whiny (5, Interesting)

bigbigbison (104532) | more than 10 years ago | (#6783087)

Doom was made with mods in mind. In the first press release they hyped modability as one of the features. Wolfenstien, however, was not made with mods in mind.

Re:lol - stop whining, whiny (1)

DrSkwid (118965) | more than 10 years ago | (#6784340)

ah, thanks, I was too lazy to check

That explains it. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6782929)

"That's how they want the users to enjoy playing their game, and I have no problem with that."

Clearly he doesn't want people to have fun playing his games then as evidenced by the sheer lack of in depth gameplay in DOAXBV, at least now he admits it.

Then don't release for a system that allows for it (0, Troll)

analog_line (465182) | more than 10 years ago | (#6783532)

If he really didn't want people changing it, he probably shouldn't have released it for a system that didn't have a hard drive, or made sure your game didn't use that hard drive in a way that allowed people to replace your crap.

Re:Then don't release for a system that allows for (2, Flamebait)

Mike Mentalist (544984) | more than 10 years ago | (#6783663)

If he really didn't want people changing it, he probably shouldn't have released it for a system that didn't have a hard drive, or made sure your game didn't use that hard drive in a way that allowed people to replace your crap.

Typical ignorant reply. If someone develops a game, and does not want it to be modded then what is wrong with that? The Xbox itself wasn't made for the purpose of modding, so your comment is stupid.

If someone does not want their IP being fiddled around with, then that is fair enough. To say that it is their own fault for putting it on system X is ridiculous.

Re:Then don't release for a system that allows for (2, Troll)

danila (69889) | more than 10 years ago | (#6784251)

If someone does not want their IP being fiddled around with, he can (I don't know how to put it politely) stick this IP up his ass. :) When he released it to the public, ideologically (not legally) it becomes some sort of public domain and people can be expected to build on that. Yes, there is copyright, which is (ideologically) a short-term monopoly on commercial exploitation (a non-perfect solution to the real problem of large-scale commercial piracy), but it doesn't give the author (ideologically, again) other forms of control over his ideas and creations.

Re:Then don't release for a system that allows for (0, Flamebait)

DaveCBio (659840) | more than 10 years ago | (#6785118)

Spoken like a person that has not spent years of his life devloping an IP. When you have a financial and emotional investment in something you are going to want to protect it. So, Id' say it's more appropriate to not want someone to "stick" their IP anywhere.

Re:Then don't release for a system that allows for (1)

danila (69889) | more than 10 years ago | (#6785683)

Yes, I haven't spent years developing so called "IP". But I have already made some useful stuff, and I am happy with others using it for free and in any way they like.

But this is not really relevant. Of course, many people would like to have extra control over their ideas and creations. But there is no reason to grant them this control. A game developer would like to dictate to others that they can't hack his games. A console manufacturer would like to dictate to others that they can't mod the consoles. A software developer would like to dictate to others how they can use the software and what other products are allowed to interact with his software. A hardware manufacturer would like to dictate to others what sorts of ink-cartriges they can use. A car manufacturer would like to follow suit with selecting what brands of oil and gas the drivers are allowed to use.

YEAH! Big news. People would like to control others, but usually they have no moral right to do it. This game developer is no exception. In a free world people should be ultimately free to do anything that doesn't directly harm other people. That includes making nude patches for games. That includes taking my photo and photoshopping it onto the goatse.cx guy. No, I would not particularly like it. Yes, you have the moral right to do it.

Everything derives value from something else. (2, Insightful)

jbn-o (555068) | more than 10 years ago | (#6789559)

Spoken like a person that has not spent years of his life devloping an IP.

Spoken like someone who thinks that their ideas are original, like they didn't get ideas from anyone else. There are plenty of people who spend a lot of time developing something but a lot of them recognize that their work is just like everyone else's--their work is fodder for the next incremental advance in expression. There's nothing new under the sun, as Shakespeare said; no idea comes from nothing and you have no legitimate sole claim to the expressions of your ideas. You benefit from a leaky copyright system--fair use helps preserve freedom of speech. Copyright power is supposed to be limited.

Second, you cannot understand how ideas work by thinking in terms of "IP" (intellectual property [gnu.org] ). That phrase is prejudicial and a mish-mash of laws that can sometimes conflict with one another. What we're talking about in this thread primarily concerns copyright policy and the anti-social idea that copyright is property (which even the law doesn't completely agree with), so call it by its name.

Ironically, Itagaki's concern would seem out of place in other areas of life, maybe even an outright affront to people's right of expression--nobody would balk at you modifying a recipe to suit your needs (even a recipe from a copyrighted recipe book published commercially), adding a room on to your house, or changing the brake pads on your car without going to the manufacturer's garage. Nor would they balk at helping other people do any of these things by distributing information or kits on how to do it. But modify a videogame? Maybe we should take the lessons from the dojinshi market [redherring.com] more seriously. According to the Dojinshi article, artists (who I'm sure "have a financial and emotional investment" in their work) all effectively share with each other and cultivate a comic book market that consumers apparently enjoy.

Re:Everything derives value from something else. (1)

dogles (518286) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792960)

Although I don't completely agree with him, I have to say I understand where he's coming from. Think of this - you spend months or years making a painting. When you finally release it, people buy prints of it and start drawing on top of it, and post their results on the web. Or you write/direct a movie, and when you release it, people make knock-off versions with extra scenes and alternate endings.

Ignoring legal/copyright issues completely (which he said wasn't the issue to him), I can understand him becoming frustrated because this is something sacred to him - it's his art and vision. He's saying "Why don't people go make their own art instead of screwing around with mine?". I think it's a pretty natural reaction for an artist. He's not saying it should be illegal or that he's going to try to prevent it in the future, he's just saying he doesn't like it. (Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you want to make it illegal, you know!).

Re:Then don't release for a system that allows for (1)

Fred IV (587429) | more than 10 years ago | (#6786966)

Typical ignorant reply. If someone develops a game, and does not want it to be modded then what is wrong with that?

Everything. Once I bring it home and tear off the shrinkwrap, it belongs to me. I bought it. I'll use it as I please.

The developer should be happy that someone bought his product so he can keep making games instead of pumping gas or dicking around with spreadsheets. It's none of his business if the user wants to use it differently than he expected. Maybe I want to use it as a coaster instead. My money, my decision. If he can't handle that, he has no business releasing his games to the public.

Indeed. (3, Interesting)

JMZero (449047) | more than 10 years ago | (#6783847)

So this guy, who makes his living selling games, is telling us that having fun is not a good enough reason for doing something. Everything you do should be a grand, creative, non-derivative work (unless you're deriving from a work that was meant to be derived from - which is transcendentally different).

We should all have better things to do, apparently, than mod or play one of his games.

Re:Indeed. (1)

retrogramer (697803) | more than 10 years ago | (#6785950)

Here, here! I haven't done any PC game hacking but ROM-hacking is LOADS of fun! If you don't want it hacked, don't make it available to any- body!

I feel a smell of hypocrisia in the air... (2, Insightful)

imperator_mundi (527413) | more than 10 years ago | (#6783888)

"Of course the creators of DOOM and Half-Life - that was their intention."

Of course the intention of Tecmo was all but exploiting the nudity of pornstar lookalike videogame characters.

If I had a teen daugther (or even in her thirties, I suppose) I would never let her go out dressed like a DOA girl...

Re:I feel a smell of hypocrisia in the air... (1)

ronfar (52216) | more than 10 years ago | (#6784605)

Really? I've been thinking about buying my wife one of these:

DOAX BIKINIS ARE HERE! (May not be work safe for conservative workplaces) [tecmoinc.com]

Mostly for laughs...

The only ones laughing.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6787245)

Will be tecmo at all the sukers willing to pay $150+ for a swim suit.

I could go further in my comment about this, but I won't.

Re:I feel a smell of hypocrisia in the air... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6795899)

Mostly for laughs...

Oh, now, come on. Be honest with yourself.

Mystery (1)

h0mer (181006) | more than 10 years ago | (#6783897)

Does anyone remember a different interview with one or some of the Tecmo guys? They alluded to stuff that's in DOAXBV that normal players haven't unlocked yet. Any details on this?

Re:Mystery (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6784846)

It is either a lie, something lame, or something that is not easy to find or get(It was about DOAX, see last part below)

From what I can tell he and Temco like to claim this stuff in the hopes of extending the really short life of their games, while tormenting the gamers trying to find said stuff that probably doesn't exist or is really lame.

In a sick kind of way it was intersting to read the message board on gamefaqs to confirm my suspicion that the gamers were bored quickly with this title, and growing tried of the Temco and his stunts like claiming that people haven't found anything yet not giving them any hints or info.

The DOAX "god hand" was something along the lines of a translation mistake, it should have been "good hand." I Don't remember what its about, but I think it was something lame. I don't care since I don't own a game that was origionaly going to be and has the replay value of a interactive movie. If you want to know more about it, try reading the gamefaqs DOAX faqs and message board.

Re:Mystery (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6784898)

It's a sham to get people playing the game long after it's lost it's luster (the only thing good about it, being the appearance after you play it for sometime).

Not in my backyard (5, Insightful)

Torgo's Pizza (547926) | more than 10 years ago | (#6784075)

Developers need to realize that gamers are going to mod their games if they can. Frankly this guy should be honored that they are doing this with his game. Having an attitude of "Yeah, they can do it as long as they don't do it with *my* game" alienates himself from his fanbase.

Would Half-Life be nearly as popular without Counterstrike? My friend Zoid started CTF in Quake. You can't shake a stick at a FPS game without seeing some version of it already included as a standard feature. There have been plenty of hacks and mods added to videogames that all have either extended the life of the game, enhanced the gameplay or added more entertainment to playing. (Note: I'm not including wallhacks, cheats or aimbots here.) Some mods take a life of their own and even extend over to other games.

As long as the hackers don't violate any intellectual property, copyright laws or try to sell their mods for profit, developers shouldn't complain. Many times these mods are better than what developers can put out. To suggest that these people go out and make their own game... what? And make more competition for your game in the marketplace. Be happy that these mods are being done to your game and thereby increasing that fat bonus check.

Dumbest comments ever (1)

aliens (90441) | more than 10 years ago | (#6784621)

So people who work on their cars shouldn't bother? They should be spending their time building their own cars from scratch?

I just don't understand why this guy is getting his panties in a bunch. Someone really needs to relax. You produced a good game, lots of people got it and now they're playing around with what they own. Not like there's only one universal copy of DOA that everyone in the world plays and any changes are made globally.

It's called a hobby. Some people mod cases, some mod cars, others robotics, and still other crazy's work to mod games. That's what we do.

Ignore him... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6785097)

He is such a hypocrite and is probably about as sane as Darl McBride. If you don't belive me then see the following examples.

He has a problem with nude patches, but dosn't mind putting his "daughters" in skimppy outfits and having bouncing boobs.

He complains about people porting their new and old works to other systems with little enhancements with the game and graphics, yet has no problem doing this with his DOA series(see DOA2 ps2 & DC, and DOA ps1? & saturn being ported and put into DOA online).

Besides, modding is being more productive. By modding you are getting more life out of the game, in this case you have the challenge of modding a game that was not intended to be modded, you can learn interesting and helpful stuff along the way, etc.

Hypocrisy Police, we have a warrant (1)

Milkhorse (700543) | more than 10 years ago | (#6785176)

So you come out with a pure cheeseball game like DOABV, teasing us with pseudo nudity, and you dont comprehend why some nerd hacker would take ten minutes to strip out your texture files and edit them. Is Japan actually on its own planet these days? I mean seriously. Don't crank out wank-fest games like this(hey, nothing necessarily WRONG with that), and then criticize others for not spending their time on WORTHY pursuits.

It's the teasing (2, Interesting)

gamgee5273 (410326) | more than 10 years ago | (#6785911)

I think what everyon is missing is that DOAXBV has been designed as a tease, sort of like a burlesque show.

Now, don't get me wrong - if someone wants to edit Tina so she's just wearing boots and a hat, then feel free. Whatever floats your boat, homey.

But I think the point of the game is to play with the imagination, but not to go all the way. When you look at Japanese pop culture recently, especially the emphasis on the schoolgirls, there is an incessant teasing going on. That teasing may not necessarily be a good thing in Japan, since there have been increased incidents with real Japanese schoolgirls having problems with peeping toms and with incidents on subways, etc. (I've yet to hear of any rapes, though).

It's like a calm river with a severely violent undertow. However, I think that Itagaki would prefer that people mod the game than go after young girls. Just an opinion.

Tecmo is crap now (1)

kc78 (651501) | more than 10 years ago | (#6786406)

Tecmo used to make good games. My friends and I still play Tecmo Super Bowl on an old Nintendo. Todays games are just junk now though. Nothing more than eye candy. Secondly, imo, he should have no right to say we can or can't mod a game we now own. Now was I taking that mod and redistributing a complete version of that game so others didn't have to buy his game or something, ok. However it's not hurting his profits at all so shut your trap. If I want to strip the girls naked or put more clothes on them, it should be up to me.

Welcome to the twenty first century. (1)

Shanoyu (975) | more than 10 years ago | (#6787606)

If you don't want your work modified then you should avoid releasing it in any form whatsoever. The conception that people will not modify a product in order to increase its usefulness or the enjoyment they derive from it is unfounded and silly.

Granted, modification is a form of legal, low level piracy in a way. By improving an original product you have added hours of use to it, and changed the planned obselesence of the developers, thus robbing them of money if they release a new version of a product with the same modifications. For example, the journal in Morrowind is greatly improved with the expansion.

However, the designer of DOA is clearly not up to speed on what constitutes the difference between artwork, simple modifications, and a new project from scratch. To my mind, this raises questions about his role in his work. Granted, this is for no other reason than the fact that he doesn't seem to have a clue what he's talking about.

Time wasters... (1)

Mulletproof (513805) | more than 10 years ago | (#6791000)

"but if they have time to hack into something that other people have made, why don't they make something of their own?"

Probably for the same reason people think that anybody who has time to make games should be doing something more productive. Judgemental dumbass.
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