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Eric Raymond's Homebrew SCO Poison

CmdrTaco posted more than 10 years ago | from the get-off-the-star-wars-kick-already dept.

Linux Business 754

What Can You Expect From A University Named "UH?" writes "Eric S. Raymond responds to Darl McBride's charge that he's drinking IBM's Kool-Aid in SCO's fight against Linux. The main thrust: Yes, there is an alliance against SCO, but, like the Open Source movement itself, it arises from lots of folks spontaneously striving for a common goal. 'It's beyond me how [you] can have the gall to talk as though we need funding or marching orders from IBM to mobilize against you. IBM couldn't stop us from mobilizing!' "

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yea well (-1, Offtopic)

mschoolbus (627182) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792713)

McBride's lucky its just kool aid, I am sure quite a few people wouldn't mind taking him out in a completely blunt way....

Re:yea well (-1)

flyneye (84093) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792837)

lets flavor the koolaid like the inside of my bladder.

Re:yea well (3, Funny)

Nurseman (161297) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792885)

When I clicked on the link, I got McBrides view on the matter, and a whopping IBM ad in the middle of the interview..priceless.

Re:yea well (0)

keithww (104451) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792920)

It's not Kool Aid, it's Grape Kool Aid. Do a google on grape koolaid and jim jones. Damn I am getting old.

Eric should be more careful (4, Interesting)

Hamfist (311248) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792717)

That rant pushes the edge of legal. One could definitely consider some of those words to be threats. I just hope they don't come to take him away. He's needed right now.

Re:Eric should be more careful (5, Insightful)

Seth Finklestein (582901) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792777)

As a long-time fan of Eric Scott Raymond, let me tell you: just because you disagree with a company, that doesn't make you a "threat." For example, Glen Harbiller campaigned against McDonald's all through the 1970s. McDonald's, of course, tried to sue him. They didn't want him to talk about McDonald's cruel labor practices, subpar food handling practices, and overly hot coffee (!).

Similarly, rallying against anticompetitive bullies like SCO cannot be considered threatening. It is free speech. Now although all my senators and house members are owned by corporations, the justice system will find in favor of crusaders like me and Eric Scott Raymond.

Re:Eric should be more careful (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792874)

I agree with what you're saying. But this is a letter to an individual. Not a company. And it contains language like this:

...and if you don't stop trying to destroy Linux and everything else we've worked for I guarantee you won't like what our alliance is cooking up next.

Re:Eric should be more careful (5, Informative)

Seth Finklestein (582901) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792913)

As long as the letter is to an individual in re his position as a company executive, it is still subject to free speech provisions. In Voight v. Harbiller (search for it on Lexis/Nexis [lexis-nexis.com]) our fabled McDonald's crusader was sued by Leslie Voight, McDonald's VP of Marketing. Voight alleged that Harbiller tried to threaten her in his letter that was delivered to her house. Guess who won?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You can't buy your way out of the first amendment.

Re:Eric should be more careful (5, Informative)

Faggot (614416) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792789)

ESR is threatening to use every legal means available to fight SCO. that's legal, justified, implied and expected.

Re:Eric should be more careful (5, Insightful)

brlancer (666140) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792813)

I didn't see any physical threats, which is really what you have to worry about.

Right now we need strong language; we need people willing to put it on the line and kick business and government.

Re:Eric should be more careful (0, Troll)

Hamfist (311248) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792863)

I picked up some implied physical threats. But seeing as Eric's a gun aficionado, it's easy to see why. Hmm, deja vu

http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,19049,00. ht ml

Re:Eric should be more careful (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792945)

i'm from texas.

i noticed a glaring absence of physical threat.

i'm disappointed.

Re:Eric should be more careful (3, Insightful)

LinuxGeek (6139) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792966)

That rant pushes the edge of legal.

ESR has learned from SCO tactics. McBride & Company don't have to be honest, they are only press releases. They have only made simple breach of contract charges in court where things like lies are punishable.

FP!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792727)

Who's ur daddy?! C'mon, say it!! That's right!! Say my name!!

Re:FP!!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792806)

Say my name!!

FAILURE

Special story submitter ? (-1, Offtopic)

cwernli (18353) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792729)

What Can You Expect From A University Named "UH?"

In some parts of the world UH is known as Universidad de Habana [www.uh.cu]... (currently not reachable). But yes, you can expect a great deal from that one (given the scarce ressources).

Re:Special story submitter ? (2, Funny)

WeeBull (645243) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792829)

A few years back, the top science teaching facility in Norway considered changing its name to the "Norwegian University of Technology and Science". They reconsidered when they realised they'd be NUTS.

Similar story occurred in England, too, when Northumbria University considered changing its name to "Cumbria University, Northumbria and Tyneside" ...

.. and Halloween 9 (2, Informative)

eddy (18759) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792732)

First off, I think he sounds moronic with those StarWars references, secondly, there's a relevant Halloween 9 [opensource.org] out.

poison? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792733)

Nah, I'm sure McBride is checking his food and having someone else try it before he eats ie anyway.

Re:poison? (0, Funny)

Lodragandraoidh (639696) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792754)

"...before he eats ie anyway..." - AC

Was that a Freudian slip? We know SCO is being bankrolled by Microsloth, but I didn't know it went as far as having to ingest M$ product...yuck!

Re:poison? (5, Funny)

big-giant-head (148077) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792877)

What food?? I hear he sucks the blood from unsuspecting linux programmers, sleeps in a pine box lined with earth and only comes out at night.

The only way to kill him is to sprinkle jolt cola on him and drive a copy of the GPL through his heart.

Otherwise he'll just live for centuries and every so often jump out of the closet to sue IBM.....

Give us this day (-1, Flamebait)

criscooil (653395) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792740)

... our daily SCO.
:)

SCO's in for a fight (5, Insightful)

RealRav (607677) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792746)

I was truly surprised when I first encountered something like open source. It was on a mud not linux, but people were spending many hours coding and got very little appreciation for it. They still coded away. Linux is much the same way exept the code is more important. Now, if you try and take that away from them, I promise your in for a fight. You can't take someone's baby away. Dreams are better as dreams than reality.

Re:SCO's in for a fight (-1, Troll)

kin_korn_karn (466864) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792901)

You can't take someone's baby away.
Until they graduate, and they realize that there are better things to do than sit around and code all the fucking time.

Re:SCO's in for a fight (2, Informative)

RealRav (607677) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792963)

I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find someone who's contributed code to linux and doesn't have it installed on a desktop somewhere. It's still their code and they're still proud of it.

Dreams are better as dreams than reality.

More independent thinking (5, Insightful)

VernonNemitz (581327) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792766)

I also have sent off a message or two to various people, trying to ensure that all the various data items that come up, each of which refutes SCO claims in some manner, get brought together when the court case starts.

For example, in response to a prior claim that the copyright law prevents the GPL from allowing users to make multiple copies, I wrote:

There is an obvious flaw in that reasoning. It focusses on the the public, and not on the copyright holder. A copyright holder decides how a work is to be released, after all, and it is perfectly legal for a copyright holder to release something to the Public Domain, in which case everyone can make unlimited copies. So, the actual relevant fact is the copyright holder has the right to decide on any degree of release between public domain and not-at-all. Therefore, when the copyright holder releases something under the GPL, the copyright holder has decided to accept the GPL's details for a release. In such case the copyright holder is giving the public the right to make unlimited copies, which fact does NOT violate the copyright law.

Re:More independent thinking (1)

Distan (122159) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792881)

Meanwhile... Didn't SCO's stock have a major rally yesterday? What's up with that?

Re:More independent thinking (5, Informative)

TopShelf (92521) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792931)

Since last Wednesday, SCO has risen by about 40% [yahoo.com]. No particular news has come out, and the volume, while above average, hasn't exactly been blockbuster. Hard to say what's happening here, really. With only 13.1 million shares outstanding, it wouldn't take a whole ton of activity to drive the price rapidly in one direction or another...

Re:More independent thinking (1)

sphealey (2855) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792919)

I also have sent off a message or two to various people, trying to ensure that all the various data items that come up, each of which refutes SCO claims in some manner, get brought together when the court case starts.
The problem is that for the court to take notice of such material, it has to be packaged up in the proper format with references to supporting statutes and cases, then submitted at the proper time and place as a "friend of the court" brief.

As we saw with the Microsoft anti-trust case, no matter how good or sound the argument may be, if it is not packaged up in standard format the legal system will just spit it back out.

So I would say a first priority would be fundraising for the legal fund that RedHat has established; perhaps that fund could then process and format the arguments developed by the community.

sPh

Guess what McBride (2, Funny)

BiteMeFanboy (680905) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792769)

... in case you've got corporate drones scanning /.. We are all out to get you. We all want to see you go down in flames. You're a waste of sperm and egg. You brought this on yourselves and increasingly wild accusations are only increasing the opposition against you.

So us all a favor. Drop the suit, dissolve the company, and walk off with your ill-gotten public opinion manipulated profits.

Re:Guess what McBride (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792836)

You're a waste of sperm and egg

Heh...I waste sperm all the time....

Duplicate :-( (4, Informative)

grandmofftarkin (49366) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792770)

The exact same response [blogspot.com] found in the link provided in this new story [slashdot.org] can also be found in the final link update in the old story [slashdot.org]. See Update: 08/22 18:26 GMT by M: ESR responds [linux.com]. Hence this is a duplicate.

Re:Duplicate :-( (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792826)

seeing as you are a subscriber, you should have alerted the editor on duty when it was posted to the "mysterious future". That ends the possibility of it showing as a duplicate.

If you don't do that AND you continue to whine, please let the moderators know that you should be modded to hell.

I did! (0)

grandmofftarkin (49366) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792865)

As soon as I saw it I sent off a letter to "Daddy Pants" but by the time I had done this I saw the article had already been formally posted on the front page. Hence I also posted a comment here. :-)

Re:I did! (0)

grandmofftarkin (49366) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792887)

Letter??? Hmmm ... I meant to say email! If I sent a letter it may have taken a while to research them, which would have explained the duplicate!

Re:I did! (2, Funny)

grandmofftarkin (49366) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792909)

Research them??? (reach perhaps?) I think I better learn to use the preview button. I should also stop talking to myself as I doubt anyone but me is now reading this, though if they are, they'll think I'm crazy!

Deja vu (-1, Offtopic)

Golthar (162696) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792772)

Wasn't this allready covered before?

Just imagine a beowulf cluster of Eric's rants against SCO

Hi, (-1, Troll)

Genghis Troll (158585) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792775)

ESR let me know that he's looking for a new slogan for Linux. Please choose one:
a) Linux: Free as in gonorrhea.
b) Linux: Free as in $699 per cpu.
c) Linux: Free as in John Geoghan.
d) Linux: Free as in my balls.

Thanks!

Stronger spectra (5, Interesting)

Empiric (675968) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792776)

I don't think IBM's support or possible covert actions in aiding Open Source is any kind of problem at all. This reminds me of the views of some when Red Hat originally started charging significant money for their Linux distro; there was a minor outcry that they were profiting off of Open Source, and that this was suspect.

To use a "software evangelism" analogy, look at all the various religions out there. In any given one, you'll find a bunch of factions/denominations that do not fully agree with one another, and that are of varying size and influence. Does this weaken their movement, overall? No. What it does is broaden the appeal of the religion for people of differing views, and keeps the debate alive internally which is crucial for their vitality.

Having a variety of companies out there that are on the spectrum of non-profit to small-profit to big-profit is no issue at all, as long as none of them can take over the work for the purposes of excluding everyone else.

On a related note, regarding IBM, I'm wondering why they don't take the position of offering legal counsel to (at least some of) the users currently being threatened by SCO. While it's completely understandable that they aren't going to provide complete indemnity (arbitrary claims such as SCO's times millions of deployments could theoretically come to basically infinity dollars), supporting the users who are currently being attacked by SCO would give IBM major karma points with the Open Source community, as well as giving them the opportunity to force SCO into revealing more about their alleged case. And, quite possibly, with the legal bills SCO would rack up defending a countersuit from all the users they've threatened, just implode them before the case ever gets to trial. This would be good for IBM and Open Source.

Re:Stronger spectra (5, Interesting)

AlecC (512609) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792835)

And, quite possibly, with the legal bills SCO would rack up defending a countersuit from all the users they've threatened, just implode them before the case ever gets to trial. This would be good for IBM and Open Source.

I don't think that would be good for Open Source: it would leave a shadow over the Linux for evermore. Anothe set of lawyer-ghouls could always buy the rights from the deceased SCO and start again. We need to get this to court and settled as fast as possible.

Two possible outcomes:
1. No infringment. Burn, SCO, burn
2. Infringement. The infringing code is dropped fast, and the Linux community rewrites it fast. SCO says this is not possible. I think that that the OS Community - at Warp Factor 10 - could do it in three months. A fine for IBM - which won't kill them. Linux carries on with FUD removed.

What we need is for someone to force SCO to reveal the allegedly infinging code - in public, not under NDA. Cannot someone get a ruling that, since it will have to be disclosed in court, it should be disclosed now?

Already Happening... (5, Insightful)

FreeUser (11483) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792946)

What we need is for someone to force SCO to reveal the allegedly infinging code - in public, not under NDA. Cannot someone get a ruling that, since it will have to be disclosed in court, it should be disclosed now?

Que Red Hat ... oops, already done. This is all in the works, and the court will amost certainly require the alleged code be revealed publicly within a few months. End of SCO.

There is almost certainly no infringing code whatsoever. But, in the extraoridinarilly unlikely event (statistically indistinguishable from 0.0, I suspect) there is infringing code, it will be removed immediately upon revelation, and $CO will be able to collect on $0.00 damages, as they have done the exact opposite that the law requires (work to mitigate the damages), trying through deception and secrecy to maximize any damages. Which does not fly, even in these dismal times. Never has, probably never will, and certainly won't for SCO. Their hands are "dirty," the code they reference has already been declared public domain by a court of law in an earlier AT&T v. BSD case IIRC, and if not, comes from so many textbooks (including at least one that places no restrictions on reuse of the code) as to be common knowledge. Their "trade secrets" case is dead in the water, and they have no copyright case.

Red Hat has filed to force them to reveal the alleged code ... they will have to do so, and failure will result in contempt of court and/or fraud charges. I.e. if they don't reveal it to red hat when so ordered, and then try to use it in another court case, Darl et. al. will be having a deep, meaningful relationship with Bubba, compliments of their own contempt of court charges. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.00.

I think this is why. (1)

AltGrendel (175092) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792856)

On a related note, regarding IBM, I'm wondering why they don't take the position of offering legal counsel to (at least some of) the users currently being threatened by SCO

Because then they would be effectivly acknowledging that SOC's claim may be valid.

Score -1 Redundant (-1, Redundant)

mvh (9295) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792778)

i believe this story has been posted already. Not that I didn't want to hear the whole thing again, over and over and over.

Friday August 23 2003 or Friday August 20 2003??? (4, Insightful)

mgessner (46612) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792779)

Umm... which is it?

FWIW *my* calendar has 23 August 2003 as being a Saturday, and 20 August 2003 being a Wednesday.

***

That detail aside, I love this letter. Thank you, Mr Raymond. That was inspired.

I'm a little concerned about the side threat "As the president of OSI, defending the community of open-source hackers against predators and carpetbaggers is mine -- and if you don't stop trying to destroy Linux and everything else we've worked for I guarantee you won't like what our alliance is cooking up next." It worries me that Raymond would phrase things this way.

I suppose there are a lot of non-violent actions that he could mean: tens of thousands of small claims actions (an idea which I love), protesting, etc. But there are some illegal ones that could be inferred from his statement: DOS, DDOS, DRDOS, etc, that would cause quite a stir; after all, aren't the ones that SCO's going after (the Open Source Community) in possession of (and the authors of) "subversive" source code (in McBride's eyes) that could be used against him on the Internet if the Community deemed it necessary?

No, no, don't flame me; I'm merely trying to put McBride's way of "thinking" (if you can call it that) onto Raymond's letter.

I am sure Raymond meant nothing of sort; however, in McBride's state of dementia and loose grip on reality, I wonder what he will think.

I hope, if it's necessary, that IBM (or more likely the EFF) will be able to send in the lawyers on Raymond's behalf. But I hope even more that it won't be needed.

Re:Friday August 23 2003 or Friday August 20 2003? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792833)

It worries me that Raymond would phrase things this way.

It worries me too, particularly because it is Raymond saying these things. I mean everyone knows that he's a gun nut - and one with a bad temper at that. Anyone else think it is ominous that he posts this on a website called 'Armed and Dangerous'?

And we thought the DDOS attacks were bad publicity.

ESR and trolls : Illegitimi Non Carborundum (1)

SgtChaireBourne (457691) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792866)

ESR writes very well, but will be the subject of increasingly personal attacks by SCO, MSFT and co. It's an old trick, if you're losing the dabate on facts, go ad hominem. I guess the good news is that this means that SCO have no case.

ESR has done a good job so far sticking to the facts and not getting drawn out by the trolls, but the next few weeks will required both patience and tact. SCO and MSFT are in the final phase of circling the drain and are going to try to take others down with them.

Never even occurred to me (1)

A nonymous Coward (7548) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792904)

All I thought of was that he and some others (Bruce? Linux? RMS or FSF?) were getting som elegal response up, and had visions of a donation page to helpo the cause. The vision of thousands of geeks donating for lawyers ought to set off alarm bells in SCO shareholders ...

Re:Friday August 23 2003 or Friday August 20 2003? (4, Funny)

julesh (229690) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792961)

But there are some illegal ones that could be inferred from his statement: DOS, DDOS, DRDOS,

Despite much FUD to the contrary, I don't believe DRDOS is illegal.

If my memory is correct, however, it is owned by SCO (or some parent/sibling company thereof), and should hence be boycotted. :-)

Eric - Is the right? (0, Flamebait)

110010001000 (697113) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792780)

Eric,

Is Daryl right? Are you being bankrolled by IBM? Please respond, we need to know who are our friends and who are not.

Linking style guide (0, Offtopic)

skryche (26871) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792785)

Y'all need to work out some sort of linking style guide. Making the title of the discussed article a mailto link rather than a link to the article itself...

What are you thinking?

Not title (1)

A nonymous Coward (7548) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792882)

It's the user name, not a story title.

Read it again. It says "USER writes ESR RESPONDS" where USER is the mailto link, and ESR RESPONDS is the story link.

Re:Not title (1)

GoofyBoy (44399) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792949)

You are correct. Thats just a bizzaro name. Maybe have the user name all in quotes or italics? and the article link only on the word "responses" and not on "Eric S. Raymond"?

Re:Linking style guide (2, Funny)

julesh (229690) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792892)

Huh? Looks OK to me. The ridiculous slashdot user name has a mailto: link, the article (second link) is a rather long URL to a web page which, in slashdot tradition, I haven't read.

Re:Linking style guide (0)

hdparm (575302) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792959)

What are you smoking? mailto link tells us who contributed the story. "Eric S. Raymond responds" is the link to the story. All technically correct. Still dupe, though.

bored and sick and tired (1)

zarniwhoop (698439) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792786)

of the sco ranting and raving. who cares? its only a bleeding operating system! cmon /. - give us stuff that REALLY matters!

DUPE! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792792)

Give me a "D"

DUPE! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792811)

Give me a "U"

DUPE! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792825)

Give me some "P"

DUPE! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792848)

Give me an E!

DUPE! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792860)

GooooooOO DUPE! DUPE! DUPE!

Their commander, Taco, is soooooo dreamy!

Protecting open source software.. (5, Interesting)

adeyadey (678765) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792793)

There is a basic problem with open source
software - great though the idea is in
principle - there is nothing to stop someone
sneaking in some (C) code, then later standing
up (maybe under a different persona) and sueing
everyone for breach of copyright.
Ok, thats not *exactly* whats happened
here - but you get my drift.

Perhaps some sort of special legal protection
is needed - in the same way charities enjoy
a special status..

Code declared to be "public" must be posted
to special government sanctioned database.
Anyone who thinks and can prove breach of
(C) can apply for their code to be removed from
the database, but will not be able to sue for
copyright breach for anyone using it for the
duration it is posted (plus some nominal period
of, say, 2 months or something like that)

Just my 2 cents..

Re:Protecting open source software.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792967)

You're new here aren't you?

Fix the links. (0, Offtopic)

GoofyBoy (44399) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792796)


The first two links are switched. Unless the article is in my mail client.

Re:Fix the links. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792832)

It's actually in your duplicate mail client.

I read this a couple of days ago... (5, Insightful)

Lodragandraoidh (639696) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792797)

I read this a couple of days ago, and found it rather refreshing.

Eric only said what is on the mind of everyone in the free software/open source movement.

SCO is hitting below the belt, playing dirty ball against free software. It is about time someone vents their outrage.

To paraphrase McBride, the GPL is null and void, and those free/open source guys need to rethink their whole world view, or pay the consequences.

How can you not get upset in the face of such meglomania?

a couple of days ago...in a galaxy far, far away.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792907)

I can't read anything ESR writes any longer without seeing him in that Obi-Wan Kenobi outfit from the Windows Refund Day. It's morphed in my mind into an image of him doing the Electric Slide which, while I know it's inaccurate, brings my respect for him a notch lower.

Anyone have a link to the original image? I think it was 1999.

Wacko (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792799)

eric raymond sure is a nutcase.

Rant-a-liscious (2, Insightful)

curtisk (191737) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792804)

I'd ask if you'd found the right sort of isolated wasteland for your citadel of dread yet, but that would be a silly question; you're in Utah, after all.

Take that offer while you still can, Mr. McBride. So far your so-called ?evidence? is crap; you'd better climb down off your high horse before we shoot that sucker entirely out from under you. How you finish the contract fight you picked with IBM is your problem. As the president of OSI, defending the community of open-source hackers against predators and carpetbaggers is mine ? and if you don't stop trying to destroy Linux and everything else we've worked for I guarantee you won't like what our alliance is cooking up next.

This guy is all over the place, from humor to near, on the fence, threats....but someone has to give McBride some "tough love" and tell it like it is, for his and everyones own good. Ideally this would suffice but I sincerely doubt it will get through the thick skulls over at SCO.

Hell of a read though.

Re:Look out McBride! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792883)

I'll tell you what... Eric Raymond is a friggin gun nut. That guy is wacko kinda crazy, no doubt about it.

Re:Look out McBride! (1)

IM6100 (692796) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792914)

Actually, it doesn't take most people very long to notice that Mr. Raymond is a little crazy. He immerses himself in a 'counter culture' as an act of denial, but the truth stands.

Jesus (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792815)

I seriously don't know who is the bigger moron, mcbride, or the pompous lisping fool eric ass raymond.
It would be cool if they somehow took out each other and the world would rejoice.

Strange. (1, Funny)

YanceyAI (192279) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792840)

The name's not familiar, and I don't work for SCO, but I'm almost positive I've worked for this guy before:

I'm not sure which possibility is more pathetic -- that the CEO of SCO is lying through his teeth for tactical reasons, or that you genuinely aren't capable of recognizing honest outrage when you see it. To a manipulator, all behaviors are manipulation. To a conspirator, all opposition is conspiracy. Is that you?

Seriously, is tech industry culture overrun with sociopaths fitting that description, or is this my own weird coincidence? Did Gates start this "movement"?

Utah?? (5, Insightful)

dereklam (621517) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792845)

I'd ask if you'd found the right sort of isolated wasteland for your citadel of dread yet, but that would be a silly question; you're in Utah, after all.

Ouch!

Although this sort of ranting is useful for getting frustration off ESR's chest, it doesn't further the cause any more than DoSing the SCO site does. Reasoned, well-thought-out responses will have a lot better effect than giving Darl more ammunition for his own tirades. I think the open-source community in general has been doing a good job of keeping its responses level-headed, and we need to keep fighting the good fight.

I I tell everybody how SCOs claim is ludicrous... (3, Funny)

winkydink (650484) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792851)

...can I get a check from IBM too? Anybody know what benefits I get once I'm on payroll? Medical? 401k? Do I Have to wear a tie?

Perceptions (4, Insightful)

LinuxGeek (6139) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792854)

SCO is fighting a war not of fact, truth or honor, but one of perception. Mr. McBride seems mainly interested in raising SCOX share price regardless of method and it has been effective so far, the stock price went up $1.30 ( just shy of 10%) on Monday. Gee, press releases really are a short term substitute for R&D.

I don't really feel sorry for the people that are going to loose large with the influx of daytraders that see SCO as a good inventment and powerful force that can shake even the mighty IBM. They will have lost their money in spite of the truthful information that is easily found. But when they do start loosing large chunks of money, SCO will feel the backlash and it won't be pretty. Those people will have no real allegaance to SCOs business, ideals or Unix history, only money.

I think it is going to be a blood bath that SCO will be luck to escape, ESR has given a good accounting of motivation that the investors are likely to ignore, probably until it is too late to save their investments.

It's public letters like this.... (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792869)

That make me proud to be a part of the OSS community and a regular controbitutor when I can.

IBM is making everyone hate us! (5, Funny)

JSkills (69686) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792871)

Somebody call the whaaaaabulance for Darl already.

Make no mistake, this is not about who is right or wrong, although we all wish it was. This is about money. SCO is like a tick under the skin of Linux. They're going suck as much blood (money) out of the situation for as long as they can.

Despite his protests about the "attacks", McBride is clearly enjoying the fact that people actually know the name SCO. From the article:

McBride proudly dumped two phone-book-sized binders of press clippings on the stage during his SCO Forum keynote on Monday as proof that his company had become more relevant in the high technology industry.
"Relevant in the technology industry"? Come on now. The only reason they're "relevant" is that they're threatening the health of the technology industry. It's like saying gential warts is sexy.

New strategy in the "war"? (2, Insightful)

Chilles (79797) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792875)

Like a donkey that starved to death between between two haystacks...

If all open source spokespeople / gurus speak up like this, pretty soon the board of SCO will feel like that donkey, unable to start suing for whatever reason because they are unable to choose where to start. How much capital do they have? How long will it take for them to bleed dry?

All together now on three....

Go, Eric, Yeah!! (0, Flamebait)

heironymouscoward (683461) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792876)

SCO-formerly-Caldera is run by a group of predatory, scumbag lawyers who think they can fool enough people with their arrogant bullshit to carry out their mission of sabotage on the GPL and the OSS community in general.

Three cheers for Eric S. Raymond for saying publicly and from an official perspective what we all think when we read SCO-f-C's latest approximation of the "truth".

If ever there was a group of men that deserved to go to jail and be repeatedly abused by large men with indelicate tastes, it's the SCO boys.

Personally I'm going to buy a small amount of overpriced SCO stock now so that I can take part in the class-action lawsuit that will send these bums to prison where they belong.

Wild Speculation (5, Interesting)

BootSpooge (61137) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792889)

The last paragraph is worded so strongly, especially the bit about fraud and IP theft, you can't help but wonder if some unnamed soul hasn't laid their hands on a copy of SCO's code and found GPL'ed code in it. The Linux personality module comes to mind.

Well, it's a nice thought (5, Insightful)

starseeker (141897) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792916)

but I'm sure SCO is going to be reading it looking for ways to sue him, not to hear his message.

News Flash: SCO wants our money, not their code removed. In the case of Linux, they have no financial incentive to show their cards - they cannot occupy a better position than they do now. As soon as problems are solved they newspapers lose interest, and SCO has to be a product producing business again. We have see how well they do on that basis, and anyway who wants to deal with them knowing how they've approached this issue? I sure don't want to deal with people like that.

This is not going to go away until they get squashed in court. They have made absolutely sure of that, by making incredible claims of ownership. The suspicion of free software from proprietary software trained CEOs plays into their hands. Those people, the ones who make the decisions, don't trust the opinions of the geek world. They listen to lawyerspeak. Hence, the SCO problem doesn't go away until it is clear in the never-never land of legal affairs that they have no teeth, however far fetched we might find their claims.

Nor would it matter even if the community took the extreme action of moving to FreeBSD or Hurd, or developed a new kernel altogether. SCO would simply make more claims that they have IP that any possible functional OS kernel would have to infringe on. As awful as it sounds, that is in fact the purpose of some IP claims - people want to occupy strong positions to be able to legally make claims like that. So it doesn't sound as bizarre to some people as it does to us. I doubt it is true, but they have nothing to lose at this point and SCO will cling to the ankles of the open source community until they are struck off by a judges gavel. Nothing else will carry any weight whatsoever.

So kudos to ESR for telling them off as they deserve, but aside from those already convinced SCO has lost it this won't do much. In corporate america lawyers are IT in matters such as this. We are going to have to batten the hatches and weather the storm, because SCO has targeted open source. This has (IMHO) been about destroying the free software world from day one, and they won't stop even if the linux kernel gets abandoned. There will still be a viable free operating system out there of some kind, and they will still have more work to do. We can't satisfy them as long as we exist.

Can people refute without being crazed loons? (4, Insightful)

Speare (84249) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792924)

It's all nice and good that people are rebutting SCO's wild (and daily) claims, but why are they all filled with the same spittle-fringed invective and circus atmosphere? I could understand phrases like 'smoking crack' and 'drinking kool-aid', I could expect droll movie references, I could predict overzealous bravado from the pages of Slashdot. But why are these child-like protests included in the official "open letters" being sent to mainstream press and directly to SCO's offices?

It embarasses me when I see the "luminaries" of the Open Source (and Free Software yadda) communities begging for attention with such antics. It just entrenches the world's view that all Linux users are immature, unwashed hacker bumpkins with Luke Skywalker style gadget belts, a DeCSS t-shirt, and a security-cracking Zaurus in hand.

IBM is the role-model here, as well as the champion of our battle. IBM has successfully married pin-stripes and rack-mounts. While we're not "passing our statements through IBM" and IBM isn't "orchestrating" our feedback, they surely could teach us something about effective and professional resistance to the legal challenges brought against Linux.

Too bad it won't work (1, Insightful)

davmoo (63521) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792926)

Unfortunately Darl McBride has shown he is, for lack of a better phrase, a friggin' nut case. This means it will be impossible to reason with him. He won't realize what a laughing stock he is until SCO lies in ruins and the stockholders have nothing left of value.

Like others have said, if the evidence shown so far is their best evidence, we don't have a damned thing to worry about, and in fact SCO will be found guilty of violating the BSD license.

Now, if you'll pardon me, I need to run to the bank and cash my check from IBM...

This is a really childish email.. (4, Insightful)

cnb (146606) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792927)


really is this just a troll or what? probably
does more damage to the open source community
then any good.

i mean was the guy drunk or something?

It makes "Flamebait" on slashdot seem "Insightful".

eric's buyassed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6792942)

all dough he 'may' have some say over the disposition of so-called o-s kode, his fine&shill affiliations (va lairIE et AL, aka the SourceForgerIE(tm), etc..) make him as/more subject to scrutinIE than the lamos he laments.

misters stallman, & torvalds carry the wait in this last gasper corepirate stock markup FraUD execrable. the results of which (gnu 'free' wwworld) are already known.

But wait ... (1, Interesting)

torpor (458) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792943)

... isn't Microsoft on SCO's side? Aren't they the ones really 'pulling the strings' of the SCO puppets?

Its okay for 'us' to say "Microsoft is the machiavellian lord behind the scenes of the SCO front", but not for SCO to say it about IBM...

I dunno. I think its about time Herd was released.

New Dimension (3, Funny)

tds67 (670584) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792950)

Eric S. Raymond
esr@thyrsus.com
President, Open Source Initiative
Friday, 20 August 2003

So now Eric Raymond is attacking SCO from other time dimensions? SCO is in DEEP doo-doo now!

" brain-boggling disconnect" indeed (4, Insightful)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792955)

Take a blue pill, Eric. Who do you think you're speaking for? What is your "alliance" cooking up next? An 10% increase in the amount of outrage on Slashdot? 15% more "IANAL, but somewun shood sew SCO!!!!" posts? Ooh, how about a "yeah, us too, they're, like, bad men" rider on IBM or Red Hat's counter-suits?

I for one would really like to know what ESR and his OSI disciples are "cooking up". We've heard enough bullshit and veiled threats from SCO over this matter. I am simply not interested in being associated with someone prepared to lower himself to their level in that respect.

Put up or shut up, Eric. And while you're at it, don't drag Linus into this. He's a big boy, he can speak for himself.

He already knows. (1)

pkunzipper (652520) | more than 10 years ago | (#6792969)

I'm a little bothered by this post, as the fact that the open source community and several others (even DRM critics) protested SCO's suit by themselves - rather than being led by IBM's initiatives - was established in March, days after the suit was filed.

This may be news to the legal community, which deciphers new chunks of information every three months, and then ponder it for awhile before reacting - whereas the tech sector made it's independent blast of SCO as soon as they saw how shallow their actions are. Luddite to say the least!

This post is simply an opportunity for those that don't care to get another chance at counterproductive mud-slinging ... but then again, that's what we love here at /.
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