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Xr Renamed to Cairo

CowboyNeal posted more than 10 years ago | from the pharaohs-and-pixels dept.

X 216

Charles Goodwin writes "Xr, the vector graphics extension for XFree86 that Keith Packard, Carl Worth, and a few others have been hard at work on, has been renamed and is now officially called Cairo. Keith and Carl recently gave a detailed presentation on Cairo (then known as Xr) which should be a useful read for those wishing to understand it a little better. There is already a useful Gtk+ rendering backend that uses Cairo, as well as an SVG test suite. This, along with Gnome2's subtle adoption of SVG and the inception of Xouvert (which now has goals for both the short term and long term, and an initial plan which includes coexisting with XFree86), spells a bright future for the eye candy of an X desktop."

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Well now, that's just great. (1, Insightful)

AntiOrganic (650691) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833827)

That's all good and well, so when are we getting alpha-blending in X? It's really annoying having "almost" transparent terminals that copy my background.

Re:Well now, that's just great. (4, Insightful)

Rooktoven (263454) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833849)

In some ways almost transparent is easier on the eyes. I know when I have 4 or 5 mac terminals open the overlay can be confusing-- not to mention if (assuming a dark background) a light colored application ends up behind a terminal.

I know it's nice for the "see what is possible" factor, but pseudo-transparency has it's place. I might even opt for it at times if I had the choice.

Re:Well now, that's just great. (3, Insightful)

Jon Abbott (723) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834219)

I can't remember where I read this quote, but it went something like, "In the publishing industry, tons are spent and much effort is made to ensure that the paper is thick enough so that the reader can't see the words underneath the current page... In the computer industry, it seems that the effort spent is for the opposite effect." :^)

Re:Well now, that's just great. (1)

Webmonger (24302) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833850)

Well, Cairo supports translucency. Maybe you'll get your alpha-blending from Cairo?

Re:Well now, that's just great. (0, Offtopic)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833967)

Hmm, I didn't think anything before Windows 2000 supports alpha-blending. You are talking about Windows NT 4 (code name Cairo), right?

Re:Well now, that's just great. (1)

perlchild (582235) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834178)

I was hoping I wouldn't be the only one to see this coincidence :)

KDE3? (4, Informative)

SHEENmaster (581283) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833863)

QT3 has translucent menu items and such. I haven't checked to see if they cheat by reading from the screen, or if they have implimented an alpha layer.

The big issue with an alpha layer is that someone has to have the authority to impliment such a change in the X11 protocol, it can't be done as an extension. Anyone who uses the fucked up protocol won't be able to display their app on a different X server. This breaks compatibility with thin clients.

What I want is complete revamping of the X protocol with backward compatibility maintained (permanently), such that new apps can take advantage of new server-side widgets without breaking compatibility. Wouldn't it be sweet if GTK+ apps could run as well over a 256kb/s line as XAW apps do?

Re:KDE3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833929)

They do cheat.

Re:KDE3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833939)

are you implying that XAW widgets are server side?

Re:KDE3? (1)

rmull (26174) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833940)

Yes, they cheat.

Re:KDE3? (4, Informative)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833968)

They do cheat, yes. There is no need to break backwards compatability, in fact the protocol already has what's needed, it's mostly a matter of XFree engineering and getting it effecient enough to not kill performance. If you want GTK apps to run sweet over a modem even, look into NX compression. Again, no need to break X.

Re:KDE3? (1)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833975)

They do a bad job of cheating. Ever try transparency in Konsole? It's not showing you what's directly behind your Konsole, it's showing you your desktop background.

WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833988)

I thought KDE3 didn't cheat despite the 5 people below that disagree. Sure, konsole copies the background image, but when you turn on menu translucency w/ the Keramik theme, it's a real Xrender based transparency (as in you'll see whatever's underneath it - videos, windows, kcalc, whatever). Who are these people yelling cheat? I thought that would be considered legit.

Re:WTF? (2, Informative)

uhmmmm (512629) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834000)

because, IIRC, it grabs what's on the screen before the menu pops up, and uses that. if the window, video, etc displayed under the menu changes while the menu is still shown, the menu isn't updated.

Re:WTF? (1)

Carlos Laviola (127699) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834284)

Incorrect. I just tried that with a konsole running irssi in the background and, sure enough, it scrolled by on the transparency when someone said something.

Re:KDE3? (2, Interesting)

andrewl6097 (633663) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834049)

Actually the protocol wouldn't have to be changed much at all. I've investigated this - the alpha value can be passed in the word-alignment byte. If you load up transluxent and throw real alpha values into your XImage, then it will be real alpha. It's just that regular XFree86 ignores the word alignment byte, and transluxent just passes it on to OpenGL so it actually works fine. Unfortunately transluxent isn't very stable.

Here is what I think the Linux GUI needs. (4, Interesting)

HanzoSan (251665) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834095)



I think the whole friggin GUI should be vectors. The Icons should be vectors, and these vectors should be manipulated in realtime via the video card/hardware.

Forget software rendering, we need hardware rendered GUI, using SVG for the interface and icons.

We also need to somehow maybe via OpenGL or some technique, to get the special effects of the video card applied to the GUI.

Then someone can write KDE4 or whatever, and the eyecandy/special effects should be plugins, a person should be able to code an effect via a scripting or programming language, someone should be able to download say, the motion blur or sparkle plugin, and then I click it and suddenly my menus motion blur or sparkle with fairy dust when I move them.

You could break the effects up into groups.

Scaling effects
Trails for cursor
Trails for menu
Icon effects/animations

etc, and when this is done, then people can write themes easily etc and we can innovate.

The key should be a system that allows a newbie who isnt a coding genius to actually manipulate a video card either via scripting, or some high level interface.

What I want is complete revamping of the X protocol with backward compatibility maintained (permanently), such that new apps can take advantage of new server-side widgets without breaking compatibility. Wouldn't it be sweet if GTK+ apps could run as well over a 256kb/s line as XAW apps do?

I dont care so much about backward compatibility and I dont think most desktop users do. Servers sure as hell wont be running this. But if back compatbility is so important that can be handled to.

QT3 has translucent menu items and such. I haven't checked to see if they cheat by reading from the screen, or if they have implimented an alpha layer.


Fake translucency is not what people want, we want alpha channeling. This will only happen when the whole interface changes from pixel based to SVG based and then an OpenGL backend to access the video cards.

I think Evas has the right idea here, now its just time to have X catch up to it.

Re:Well now, that's just great. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833918)

I've been wating for that for years...... it's soo sad when my mac friend that doesn't know anything about software/hardware upgrades to Mac OSX and gets all sorts of awesome features like that. :(

Re:Well now, that's just great. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833980)

Maybe after all the more important stuff is taken care of. While you're waiting, I suggest not using the "almost" transparent terminals.

second post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833829)

or something

what (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833831)

the
fuck

great (3, Funny)

SHEENmaster (581283) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833833)

but when do we get an ASCII renderer for it?

yesterday. (1)

pb (1020) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834305)

Just load it up in XGGI, like so [meow.org.uk] , silly!

Windows NT 4.0 (0)

firehawk2k (310855) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833838)

Wasn't Windows NT codenamed Cairo?

Re:Windows NT 4.0 (1)

pohl (872) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833861)

At least some version of NT was code-named "Cairo", back in the days when NeXT was working on "Mecca" and IBM had the "Workplace OS" version of OS/2 in the works. I don't think much of the "Cairo" feature-set actually made it to market. It was supposed to have some lovely object-database filesystem or something, wasn't it?

Re:Windows NT 4.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833962)

Cairo was roughly Win 2000, and bits and pieces of it did make it market -- ActiveDirectory, distributed file system, object broker (COM+).

What didn't make it was that all of this stuff would be tied into some sort of universal "Information Everywhere" framework. Supposedly that's coming in "Longhorn" with a DB-based filesystem.

Re:Windows NT 4.0 (2, Interesting)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833989)

BZZT! It WAS Windows NT 4.0. Here's a FOLDOC entry on NT4:

Windows NT 4

A version of Microsoft's Windows NT operating system, originally code named "Cairo". It was supposed to ship in the first half of 1995. Details are scarce, but it is intended to provide an object-oriented version of Windows.

(1996-07-09)

Re:Windows NT 4.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834036)

> BZZT!
OK, we got it, you're an ass.

> It WAS Windows NT 4.0.

No it wasn't. Cario was killed or backburnered at MS long before NT4 shipped. NT4 had some other code name ("Daytona"?) and shipped with none of the promised Cairo features.

The propaganda about Cairo was coming heavy and thick in the 93-94 time frame, and it was always described that Cairo was the next version after the next version of NT -- roughly v5.

Re:Windows NT 4.0 (1)

ultrabot (200914) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833875)

ISTR it was Windows 95.

Re:Windows NT 4.0 (1)

Mooset (9986) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833883)

Nope, Windows 95 was Chicago.

Re:Windows NT 4.0 (1)

billatq (544019) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833885)

I think Windows 95's codename was Chicago, not Cairo.

Re:Windows NT 4.0 (3, Interesting)

KoolDude (614134) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833880)


Actually, it was Windows XP which was code-named Cairo. X and P refer to Greek Letters Chi and Rho. Possibly Xr changed to Cairo using the same logic. Just a guess, though.

Re:Windows NT 4.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833971)

I was reading about Cairo when they were still developing windows 95.

so I guess you're wrong...

Re:Windows NT 4.0 (1)

KoolDude (614134) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834129)


The official code-name for Windows XP was Whistler. However, it is safe to say that the name XP is an intended pun referring to the early 90s project Cairo. The actual Cairo project was only hyped and never came to light. Apparently, Windows XP had all the features that were promised in Cairo.

Technology, not XP (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834023)

Cairo was well before Windows XP.

Microsoft's Cairo was a project of the 90s which started off as an operating system but became a set of technologies. Some of Cairo went into NT 4.0, more into Windows 2000, while some parts like an Object Oriented were never finished. Longhorn (XP's successor) had it's plan of a distributed file system downgraded down to a service running on NTFS.

The three main portions of the technology were: Expanded Directory Services, Object-Based File System, and Expanded integration with DNS.

Re:Windows NT 4.0 (1)

BigBadBri (595126) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833937)

Cairo was what was proposed for NT5 - or Win2K as it turned out.

They never got the OO filesystem to work, though, so NTFS lives on.

eye candy? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833841)

If I wanted eye candy, I'd buy a Mac...

Just give me a good, solid system to do my stuff on!

Then you want Windows Millennium. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833864)

Go get you some.

Re:Then you want Windows Millennium. (1)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834094)

I think you missed the "good" and "solid" part of that sentence.

Re:eye candy? (2, Interesting)

log2.0 (674840) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833873)

I have always thought vectors were the way to go. The mac implementation is really good (I used mac os X for the first time yesterday). Although having a nicer looking desktop (as long as its optimized) is a good thing. Of course, at first, you wouldnt expect it to go very fast but it should get faster and stable in good time.

We can do better than the mac implementation. (1)

HanzoSan (251665) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833961)



We can, should and MUST do better than MacOSX. We must also do better than Microsoft. If we are to compete with these rich billion dollar companies, Linux must simply be better. A person should be able to SEE that Linux is better and not just a clone.

How about some innovation?

Re:We can do better than the mac implementation. (1)

fireboy1919 (257783) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834247)

How about "exactly the same except that it doesn't cost anything."

It sounds better to me, anyway.

But, anyway, it will probably be better simply because it'll be a thin client, and the others aren't.

Re:eye candy? (1)

diamondc (241058) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834295)

Mac OS X definetly uses pixels, instead of vectors for the icons.

You have no need to upgrade. (3, Interesting)

HanzoSan (251665) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833941)



Cairo is not for you! someone like you should use the old version of Xfree86 because you dont like cutting edge, you dont like polish, you dont need eye candy.

But please do not hold the rest of us back because you dont want progress.There's the commandline and original Xfree86 for people like you, we also need to attract desktop users, and this requires eyecandy.

They will not switch from Windows if Windows is better.

Re:eye candy? (2, Interesting)

oc255 (218044) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833970)

One of the parts in the article mentions a user-specified error tolerance to control quality vs performance. I'd be curious to see how this performs in the real world.

There's already a gnome theme by the name of scalable gorilla [ximian.com] that uses vector graphics. It runs a little slow on slow CPUs, but it looks fantastic and it's easily configurable. With a bitmap icon, I have to recreate the graphics file, with the Scalable Gorilla theme, I change text in a XML file. Another thing to keep in mind is the size of the hi-res bitmaps that would be required to compete with the computer synthesized perfection of vector graphics.

Isn't this a disk space vs CPU tradeoff? I have to store a bitmap where I have to compute a vector? I'm all for using my untapped CPU cycles instead of disk storage.

Its not done right, but its a start (1)

HanzoSan (251665) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834141)



Gorilla is a start. I think however there should be no more bitmap / pixel based interfaces. This is 2003 and Linux should just go 100 percent SVG. People who want to use pixels can use their 486.

Linux needs to prepare to take on Windows on the Desktop, this is going to require that Linux is cutting edge.

Isn't this a disk space vs CPU tradeoff?

Most people have more free CPU power than diskspace. Most people have 2ghz cpus, and super powered Gforce video cards which just dont get used at all except for a few tasks. Dont you think its time our software catches up to the hardware?

The worse that can happen is make more people buy video cards and upgraes which will give us jobs again.

Re:Its not done right, but its a start (2, Insightful)

aardvarkjoe (156801) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834240)

This is 2003 and Linux should just go 100 percent SVG.

Linux should have nothing to do with either bitmaps or SVG. You mean that XFree86 should be 100% SVG. (Which I think is a stupid idea, by the way. Breaking backwards compatibility for the sake of "market domination" is something that Microsoft would do, not engineers who actually care about the technical side of things.)

Re:Its not done right, but its a start (1)

HanzoSan (251665) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834391)



If you want backward compatibility why not use the old version? People like you would tell KDE not to upgrade to QT4 because it breaks backward compatiblity.

Ok Fossil, have fun running AfterStep, Fluxbox or any of the others on the old version of Xfree. Let those who want to progress have progress, stop holding the Linux community back with your nonsense!

is something that Microsoft would do, not engineers who actually care about the technical side of things.

Why is backward compatibility so important to engineers who create Xfree86 when they only use Linux to create Xfree86?

Re:Its not done right, but its a start (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834242)

Most people have 2ghz cpus, and super powered Gforce video cards

I call BS.

Re:eye candy? (2, Interesting)

fireboy1919 (257783) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834034)

The lack of vector graphics was on of the major arguments citing why X11 doesn't work very well over low-bandwidth links.

Is having X over low bandwidth eye candy?

Re:eye candy? (1)

fault0 (514452) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834341)

> The lack of vector graphics was on of the major arguments citing why X11 doesn't work very well over low-bandwidth links.

Have you ever heard of NX? It's not vector based yet beats the shit out of vector based protocols.

Re:eye candy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834370)

Normal folks act to maximize beauty ... beauty is truth, it's a basic food-group like air & water. Only twinkee_munching, Jolt_swilling byteboyz with one thumb up their azzwhole and a lust for repulsive, ugly recursiion confuse beauty with candy.

Cairo? Bill Gates will be contacting them. (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833842)

This is the code name for Windows NT. This is a blantant and illegal DMCA violation, and a dilution and sullying of Windows NT's good name. They will be served.

Re:Cairo? Bill Gates will be contacting them. (1)

meckardt (113120) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834087)

I doubt it. Isn't NT about to be End-of-Lifed soon anyway?

Re:Cairo? Bill Gates will be contacting them. (2, Informative)

samael (12612) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834224)

NT 4.0 was EOL-ed back in June. 2000 is, however, NT5 and XP is NT5.1 (I think).

Cairo was never the codename for NT anyway, it was the codename for the Object Oriented File System microsoft was working on that was going to go into Win2k.

Re:Cairo? Bill Gates will be contacting them. (1)

SquadBoy (167263) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834317)

Cairo was Win 98 I think.

Re:Cairo? Bill Gates will be contacting them. (1)

samael (12612) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834356)

The Register disagrees [theregister.co.uk]

We didn't choose the name (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834170)

We were going to call it 'Trek' or 'Cannondale', but then some IBM dude who knows waaaaay more about choosing names than we do told us to call it 'Cairo'.

Cairo == Windows XP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834303)

Actually, Cairo is Windows XP.

The XP is a greek pun that the MS engineers thought up. X is actually the greek letter Chi and P is the greek letter Ro, so Windows XP == Windows Chi-Ro (Sound it out).

LOL LOL LOL FIRSTPOST (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833843)

LOL not REALLY!!

Who the hell cares? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833845)

They can rename it all they want, it won't make it any better.

Speaking of Gtk, their time would be much better spent improving the usability of the file selector dialog.

Re:Who the hell cares? (1)

AntiOrganic (650691) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833853)

They are. It's slated for inclusion in 2.4, if I recall correctly.

Re:Who the hell cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834359)

It was slated for inclusion for gtk 1.2, then gtk 2.0, then 2.2, now 2.4? Try gtk 5.6.

We need more... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833862)

open source projects renamed to match Microsoft beta's. It's always nice to remove the stench of the beast from one more word. Who's up for a new web-browser named Chicago.

This might even turn out better than expected (5, Informative)

justsomebody (525308) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833872)

According to publications they are going to contact as many organisations and support as many standards as possible. That's something that XFree never did.

They even plan to contact Freedesktop.org.

Re:This might even turn out better than expected (0, Offtopic)

justsomebody (525308) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833899)

heh, there's even a funny post in xsvg archives

[xsvg] Viagra and Diet Pills prescribed online! US doctors and pharmacies! Overnight Shipping imikwclffggizyh

looks like, the mailing list is on a mailing list:)

That spam is actually on topic (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834328)

> heh, there's even a funny post in xsvg archives
>
> [xsvg] Viagra and Diet Pills prescribed online!

This is actually on topic for XSVG. Viagra is supposed to help men "scale" up while "Diet Pills" are for people to "scale down".

Dumb name of the month (-1, Troll)

Animats (122034) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833879)

"Cairo". Doesn't anybody in the Open Source movement have any sense of naming? Go read some Churchill.

Re:Dumb name of the month (0, Redundant)

Mooncaller (669824) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833931)

Whys it dumb? Chi = X, Rho = r. Together they are pronounced Cairo.

SCOTT LOCKWOOD IS A BIG FAT FUCK (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833882)

Vlad I hope someone comes into your house at night and shits on you while you sleep.

Re:SCOTT LOCKWOOD IS A BIG FAT FUCK (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834072)

JUSES IS WIT US IN AL TYPAS OF OUR LIEF AND WE CAN DO ANY THNG IN HIM B/C WA R HIS SONS AND DAUTARS!1!1!!11 LOL I SPACIALY CAN NOT DO ANY THNG WITHOUT HIM SO GOD SADE TAHT U CAN NOT DO ANY THNG WITHOUT ME

frum teh flo of jusesgeeks.NET (rip_)

This is OLD OLD news (1)

HanzoSan (251665) | more than 10 years ago | (#6833911)



Why are we posting this when this happened like a month ago?

Anyway where can I donate money to Cairo development?I mean I dont have A PHD in software engineering and cannot help with the actual development, so how about accepting donations people?

Re:This is OLD OLD news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833979)

Why not just send them some of that gold you've been hoarding from when you used to do your trolls with a Transgaming subscriber link in your sig?

Re:This is OLD OLD news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834013)

Because there's finally a break in SCO news to post a non-SCO article.

This news predates Slashdot (1)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834019)

Wasn't Cairo released in 1996 or something? BTW, I don't think MS wants your money for Cairo anymore. They'd rather have your money for at least Windows 2000, if not XP or Server 2003.

ATTENTION HANZO SAN (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834168)

I have it on good authority that SCOTT LOCKWOOD III is planning on coming into your house at night and shitting on you while you sleep. Take all neccessary precautions.

Re:This is OLD OLD news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834273)

Why are we posting this

I don't know, why did you post it?

You speak in the plural quite often. Who are you talking about?

Cool! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833912)

Finally I'll be able to easily create a "virtual mare" for my desktop!

This is good. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833919)

Gnomes SVG support is good, it allows me to run gnome on a 1920x1440 display, unlike kde, which seems to go flaky after 1280x1025.

Re:This is good. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834372)

Hmm.. kde runs fine on 1600x1200 here (well, actually 3200x2400 if you count xinerama..)

But yeah, svg icon support might be cool in kde. Only GNOME has it so far, I guess (no, OSX does NOT have any vector icon support, they go from vectors->to prerendered pixmaps like KDE)

In other news. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833946)

Gnome is renamed to KKKDE.

sub-pixel aliasing? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833974)

Does anybody know if sub-pixel anti-aliasing is planned for this -- or any other vector drawing APIs? Smooth anti-aliased lines look nice, but they look bad in comparison when they're next to sub-pixel anti-aliased text on an LCD screen.

Re:sub-pixel aliasing? (0)

BattleCat (244240) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834057)

Sub-pixel AA for text is already in freetype2 and Xft2, although not on par with MS ClearType. I've played with it for some time trying to improve the results, but nobody was interested enough to listen :-)

Re:sub-pixel aliasing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834110)

Yes, but that is only for text. I'm talking about the other things drawn on the screen, and it could even be done to regular bitmapped images.

Go Without (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6833985)

Calling it eye candy? Sorry - I'll go without. Linux desktops are drab and unprofessional looking. They only appeal to the ultra cheap mfs who think they're entitled to something for nothing. I hate people like that. They don't do our world any good at all.

Not eye candy!!! (4, Interesting)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834002)

"right future for the eye candy of an X desktop"

This is essentially untrue. Accepting vector graphics as the default in computers may alter our perception of what is eye candy completely. As far as I'm concerned the Fresco/Berlin project was the right way already several years ago. Today, the hardware has caught up and there is nothing to be lost in user space with vector graphics everywhere.

In fact, we have no idea what kind of possibilities may open up here. If we're unlucky, yes, it might be a can of worms... ;)

So, when does this turn in to a practical product? (3, Interesting)

Vexalith (684137) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834020)

I like the sound of Xr/Cairo, seems pretty cool. But how long is it going to take for this to turn in to something I can actually use? I guess the eventual goal is to have GTK and QT running on top of Cairo (maybe with extensions to do explicitly vector things?), but this strikes me as something that's not going to happen fast. Maybe I'm just being impatient.

That sample rasterized penguin looks contented! ;) (2, Interesting)

f1ipf10p (676890) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834024)

Stuffed on the finest of herring no doubt!

Great news on the arrival of rasterized graphics output for Xfree86. That should allow for some superb gaming, visual modeling, and graphic apps for Linux.

XrStroke is sure to be a popular command...
maybe that explains the contented look... randy penguin!

If you are lost with these references, you might enjoy "Why a penguin?" and "linux" together as a google search.

Re:That sample rasterized penguin looks contented! (1)

Vexalith (684137) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834045)

That should allow for some superb gaming
Not if it isn't hardware accelerated. Until then OpenGL will still be the way to go.

Re:That sample rasterized penguin looks contented! (1)

f1ipf10p (676890) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834172)

Probably true enough that OpenGL is the way for a while.

Now that there is a set of instructions, perhaps they will be widely adopted and drive some sort of hardware accelerated video card with Cairo support. Not very easy for me to predict. Probably not likely.

Still glad to see Xr / Cairo... And that penguin is very happy.

btw-I love OpenGL, and think of it as legos for my monitor. I am very glad developers and video card manufacturers have done what they have with OpenGL. I dual boot my Radeon 9700 equipped PC - XP for games or 2.4.20-8 for most everthing else for that very reason.

Re:That sample rasterized penguin looks contented! (1)

Vexalith (684137) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834251)

Unfortunately the problem with this will be getting hardware manufacturers to produce suitable drivers. Getting them to produce linux drivers for OpenGL was bad enough, and is still a mess (thanks, nVidia!). If designed well enough, perhaps Cairo itself can sit on top of GLX, but we'll see...

But (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834033)

Will they port twm to it?

Finally, buffering. (4, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834089)

From the short term goals:

Provide an option to force backingstore on all windows.
This is the one I've been waiting for for a while. When RAM was $500 for 64K it made sense not to buffer windows, but now it is insane not to, forcing redraws which drain CPU and networt bandwidth (on remote displays).

Re:Finally, buffering. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834138)

Doesn't just turning Option "backingstore" in XF86Config force all windows to use it? That's been my experience.

Cairo, hmm, that has been a Windows codename (1)

marcovje (205102) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834134)

... for one of the w9x window's versions.

Bad, bad :-)

Re:Cairo, hmm, that has been a Windows codename (1)

Beetjebrak (545819) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834195)

Not Win9x, rather Win2K/NT5. Win95 was called Chicago (the beta had a 'welcome to Chicago' bootsplash), with WinXP/Longhorn they started moving from cities to mountains. XP was called Whistler, Longhorn (if I'm nog mistaken) is Blackcomb.

No wonder linux = windows 3.1 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834157)

Instead of fixing stuff like the file dialog, scanning gamma, PROPER Screen resolution changing (xrandr is not proper), PCI modem support, support for the 6508 chipset, you write crap like this.

And if this gets modded down (rahter than insightful, which it IS), then the moderators have their heads stuck up their asses further than humanly possible.

Mozilla SVG? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834182)

So when will this library be used to add SVG to Mozilla on linux?

No wonder Linux is for anti social nerds! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834252)

Instead of fixing stuff like the file dialog, scanning gamma, PROPER Screen resolution changing (xrandr is not proper), PCI modem support, support for the 6503 chipset, you write crap like this.

And if this gets modded down (rahter than insightful, which it IS), then the moderators have their heads stuck up their asses further than humanly possible

Themes? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834354)

Has anyone here tried any of those three themes they list? (cairo-simple, cairo-industrial, and cairo-nuvola.) I'm curious to see what they look like, but (like a typical unfriendly project page) they don't have any screenshots of what they've created.
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