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Dotgnu Coding Competition

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the code-warrior dept.

GNU is Not Unix 132

Honestly writes "Apparently DotGNU seems to be offering more than the 'warm fuzzy feeling' to its contributors. Somebody has funded about $4500 worth of prizes for code contributions. The developers have confirmed that the $$$ is in FSF Hands (good hands, I suppose). Here is the split up of prizes. It's almost strange to earn money writing open source. Especially when you're not even employed by dotgnu. Anyway all I can say is ,I like it. It's ideal for a grad student with lots of free time. But hardly anyone seems to have seen the Newsforge posts (except maybe me)."

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132 comments

fp (5, Funny)

Pompatus (642396) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834870)

It's ideal for a grad student with lots of free time.

Never been to grad school, huh?

Re:fp (2, Informative)

s20451 (410424) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834927)

It's the Saturday of a long weekend, and as a grad student I'm spending my copious free time ... in the lab.

Re:fp (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6836036)

Life of a grad student:

Year 0: "I will be an agent of change."
Year 0.5: "Holy S@#&! Quals!"
Year 1.0: Finished recovering from Quals
Year 2.0: Hmm, no results.
Year 3.0: Still nothin'. Do prelim anyway.
Year 4.0: Realize that for project to succeed, 2 laws of thermodynamics must be violated.
Year 5.0: Finally convince advisor of above
Year 6.0: Surf web, drink coffee, contemplate navel. No longer bitter - now at peace.
Year 7.0: Realize you're almost 30 and still in school. Realize you still don't have a feasable project. Bitterness returns.
Year 7.0001: Job search begins.
Year 7.5: Find job. Discover "friends" from undergrad who went straight to work will be boss's boss.
Year 7.6: Define project, perform experiments, analyzing results, writing paper(s). Only productive time in grad school
Year 7.7: Look for 5 faculty members willing to sit in a room with you and each other for 3 solid hours.
Year 8.0: Committee finally assembled. Defense occurrs. Sum up 8 years with 20 minute talk. Listen to useful advice on project you'll never think about or work on again. Stand outside door for 20 minutes pacing nervously while committee discusses weekend plans, daycare options, new italian restaurant on west side. "You've passed! Now pay us $1000 to get 10 bound copies of your thesis made plus the microfilm charge or else you won't officially be awarded a diploma."

Neither have some others... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6836051)

http://www.spectacle.org/0203/sims.html

PBS DOCUMENTS THE DEMISE OF THE MIDDLE CLASS (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834871)

PBS Show This Friday on Offshoring

This Friday, August 29th, PBS will air an important one hour show on outsourcing work to foreign countries.

In the midst of steep economic recession and skyrocketing unemployment rates, more and more major American companies are cutting costs by outsourcing work [tata.com] to foreign countries. Now, these exported jobs are taking their toll on college-educated and skilled professional workforce. With experts estimating that 3.3 million white-collar jobs will be sent overseas by 2015, is America's middle class being hollowed out?

On Friday, August 29, 2003 at 9PM PBS NOW [pbs.org] goes to India where the country's skilled and educated workforce is answering customer and financial service calls and taking over technology positions for some of America's biggest corporations while millions of Americans search for jobs at home.

Check your local listings [pbs.org] !

Re:PBS DOCUMENTS THE DEMISE OF THE MIDDLE CLASS (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834903)

First they came for the menial jobs. I never spoke out because I didn't have a menial job.
Then they came for the unskilled laborer jobs. I never spoke out because I wasn't an unskilled laborer.
Then they came for the skilled labor jobs. I never spoke out because I wasn't a skilled laborer.
Then they came for the call center jobs. I never spoke out because I didn't work in a call center.
Then they came for the middle management / clerical jobs. I never spoke out because that wasn't my job either.
Then they came for the programmer's jobs. And there was no-one left in employment who wanted to help me.

FACT: This country is being hollowed out from the inside by filthy subhuman animals. An invasion of scum, often illegally entering the country, who are crawling their way into good jobs. Why? Because they are wanting to take everything over. We all know to what effect that 'positive discrimination' has altered employment practises. Now, instead of the most valuable person for the job, companies are obliged to employ rancid, workshy immigrants.

Of course, the animals want to get into good companies, so they in turn can influence management decisions to outsource further jobs to their cousins overseas. Thus destroying an entire nation.

From the lowliest Janitor to the highest executive, foreigners MUST be eliminated from our corporations.

THEY BREED FASTER THAN OURSELVES BECAUSE THEIR LIVES ARE WORTH LESS.

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834875)

i am gonna write a program for them that gets me FP EVERY TIME!

You better. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834924)

You do seem to need one.

If... (2, Funny)

Spoticus (610022) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834884)

RMS wins, you know it's fixed ;-)

Re:If... (5, Funny)

wik (10258) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834987)

Little do you know, but the real prize is RMS coming to your front door with the FSF Source Patrol van, carrying an oversized copy of the GPL.

Re:If... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835449)

After the second time this happened to me, I got a dog.

Re:If... (1)

God! Awful 2 (631283) | more than 10 years ago | (#6836867)


Little do you know, but the real prize is RMS coming to your front door with the FSF Source Patrol van, carrying an oversized copy of the GPL.

That would be funny... especially if you lived in Norway or something. "Hi, this is Richard Stallman. I just spent 15 hours and $5,000 travelling across the world to give you this $300 check."

Seriously... the top prize is $2,000. A decent programmer makes that in a week. This contest is lame.

-a

Grad students, free time? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834885)

Ideal for grad students with lots of free time . Umm....what planet are you from?

Sounds great but.... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834887)

..it sure will suck when I have turn over my $4500 to SCO for using their IP.

Thanks for spoiling it! (5, Funny)

Lord of the Fries (132154) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834893)

"But hardly anyone seems to have seen the Newsforge posts (except maybe me)."

Oh great! So much for the easy win for the few of us that did know about it. :/

From the article... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834907)

"I just sat down with a blank spreadsheet and started making assumptions," says Olson

Is it safe to assume this guy works for SCO?

System.Windows.Forms (1, Interesting)

rf0 (159958) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834913)

You have to wonder how many hidden calls there are? I'm sure at least on major one will be hidden making this all nice and hard

Rus

Re:System.Windows.Forms (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834997)

It doesn't matter how many "hidden" (they're not hidden - use ildsasm) calls there are. You're making your own implementation.

Re:System.Windows.Forms (1)

MagPulse (316) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835467)

What the OP probably meant to say is that the "perfect" Windows.Forms implementation will need to reproduce all the bugs and quirks that the MS one has, and then fix them when MS does.

Ha! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834920)

But hardly anyone seems to have seen the Newsforge posts (except maybe me)

Don't kid yourself. Everyone saw them but, nobody gave a shit!

Re:Ha! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835056)

Ha!

Some things to consider... (-1, Offtopic)

mnmlst (599134) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834928)

1. Strange that they are keeping out people with access to Microsoft source code, but not people with access to SCO's source code. (Oh, but wait. It looks like anyone working with GNU/Linux already HAS access to SCO source code. Mmm, quite a dilemma.)

2. Hopefully documentation will count for SOMETHING. After dabbling in GNU Privacy Guard for a while, I have concluded it could use better man pages. And no, I am not volunteering...

Bribes... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834931)

don't take them lightly.

ideal for grad students (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834945)

dude, where do you go to grad school?

Re:ideal for grad students (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835020)

Maybe it should be rephrased to "CS undergrads who are going to Sociology grad school"

What about Mono (3, Interesting)

joeykiller (119489) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834950)

How does this differ from mono [go-mono.org] ? It seems to me as the two projects are trying to achieve the same things. If that's the case, why have two projects at all? Why not merge the two efforts? I guess somebody here knows why.

Re:What about Mono (4, Informative)

Plix (204304) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834962)

The Mono FAQ has a section devoted to it [go-mono.com] .

Re:What about Mono (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835519)


An advanced native-code compilation engine: Both just-in-time compilation (JIT) and pre-compilation of CIL bytecodes into native code are supported.


Portable.net uses an advanced unrolling interpreter which gives it up to 60% the speed of a real JIT and makes it much easier to port than the mono JIT. It only took a week to port the unroller to arm processors.

In the future Portable .net will have a full jit as well as the portable unrolling interpreter (which is much faster than mono's interpreter).


A foundation for code optimization: The new code generator in Mono builds on the experience of our first JIT engine, and enables us to implement various advanced compiler optimization tricks. With an SSA-framework, plenty of new optimizations are possible.
The current list of optimizations are: Peephole postpass, Branch optimizations, Inline method calls, Constant folding, Constant propagation, Copy propagation, Dead code elimination, Linear scan global reg allocation, Conditional moves, Emit per-domain code, Instruction scheduling, Intrinsic method implementations, Tail recursion and tail calls, Loop related optimizations, Fast x86 FP compares, Leaf procedures optimizations


That's only unique cause Mono currently has a JIT. It's not unique to the Mono project.

A self-hosting C# compiler written in C#, which is clean, easy to maintain.


Focus on the .NET Framework: we are tracking down the .NET Framework API definition, as we believe it is the API people will be most familiar with.


And the API that is the most poorly designed (when compared to OO libraries like Java).


A multi-platform runtime engine: both a JIT engine and an interpreter exist. The JIT engine runs currently on x86 systems, while the interpreter works on SPARC, StrongARM, s390 and PowerPC systems.
Our new compilation engine is being ported to the PowerPC.


Now the wording of this paragraph is designed to decieve. The first part talks about a multi-platform runtime engine which is infact not unique to mono. In reality, portable.net runs on far more platforms than mono. The second part just goes on to talk about how the new compilation is going to be ported to PowerPC.


Supports Linux, BSD, Windows and Solaris at this point.


Portable.Net supports Linux, BSD, Windows, OSX, and more. In fact, all you need is a C compiler -- you can even compile portable.net with Visual C++ (try doing that with mono).


The JIT engine is written using a portable instruction selector which not only generates good code but is also the foundation to re-target the JIT engine to other systems.


More about the JIT. All of this "amazing" stuff is pretty standard for a JITs.


Full support for remoting in the runtime.


I'll give them that.


The C# compiler, the JIT engine and the class libraries are mature enough that the whole system has been self-hosting since April 2002. This means that we develop Mono completely with itself at this point.
By forcing ourselves to use our own code to develop our tools, we bug fix problems rapidly, and the system is overall more robust and tested than if we did not.


That's not unique to mono either.


We have a great community of developers, without which Mono would not be possible.
In general, Mono is more mature and complete since it has been used to develop itself, which is a


And so does portable.net. Too many mono developers are newbie or ex VB programmers which makes *a lot* of the code in mono extremely ugly hacks.

Because (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6834966)

Each project is sure that their way is the only "sane" way to go about it. Each project looks down at the other with disdane, simply for being different.

It's the same reason that there are now ~300 MP3 player projects on SourceForge.

Re:What about Mono (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835164)


programmers re-inventing the wheel ? say it aint so, next you will be telling me wordprocessors are 600mb big

Re:What about Mono (4, Insightful)

qtp (461286) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835291)

why have two projects at all?

Perhaps, because different projects might come up with different implementations that have strenths that the others might not.

Sometimes a parallel effort is needed in order that different approaches to the same problems get to be explored fully.

Because it is sometimes better to fork a project, not because one approach is "wrong" but because another is equally good.

Because it might be better to merge to separate efforts later when both have more mature codebases.

Because having two separate projects nmight enable the coders to more easily see alternative methods that neither effort would have thought of without the other.

Because there is more than one way to do it.

Re:What about Mono (1)

Laconian (578463) | more than 10 years ago | (#6837089)

That's great, but we're dealing with a limited number of skilled programmers. If there were unlimited resources, a parallel approach might work better.

But why fork a project needlessly when combined efforts could produce a product that is ultimately more intuitive and polished than two rough apps that waste twice the time for twice the learning curve?

I apologize for the run-on sentence.

Re:What about Mono (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835453)

why have two projects at all?

It's a big wall [slashdot.org] , so let them both have at it!

Not the only one (0, Redundant)

jaaron (551839) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834955)

I'm sure I'm not the only one with this question:

What's the difference between gotGnu and Ximian's Mono project?

I've googled for some details, but I'm not .NET literate enough to really distinguish the two. Anyone want to give a short explanation of the differences? Thanks.

sample of code (1)

lethalwp (583503) | more than 10 years ago | (#6834960)

here is a link to a sample code that should be "finally" supported?

http://savannah.gnu.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/dotgnu-p ne t/pnetlib/samples/FormsHello.cs?rev=HEAD&content-t %20ype=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup

(remove the space %20) that /. introduces

IN SOVIET RUSSIA... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835024)

Uh, sorry, couldn't come up with a witty comment. My apologies.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835074)

...the FSF pays YOU !

Re:IN SOVIET RUSSIA... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835122)

Didn't you get the memo? It's now, "I for one welcome our new FSF overlords"

Re:IN SOVIET RUSSIA... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835160)

I for one welcome our new Soviet Russian overlords.

Re:IN SOVIET RUSSIA... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835161)

I miss the SOVIET RUSSIA jokes. At least some of them were clever or at least somewhat amusing. Where some of the SOVIET RUSSIA jokes could have been written by a fairly simple script, all of the overlord jokes could have been.

Re:IN SOVIET RUSSIA... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835777)

I, for one, welcome our SOVIET RUSSIA joke overlords.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835972)

FSF overlords welcome YOU!

Dotgnu? You Spelled Doughnut Wrong! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835025)

Rats! Bung [rogers.com] !

Did you say rats? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835204)

Look - we get them dirty FSF rats [totallywrecked.com] ! By the bye, why do you think he said "good hands, I suppose"? Maybe we're all going to get a little jerk from da boys? Hand(coding)jobs for everyone! Yay!

hmm (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835026)

maybe nobody cares about dotGNU .. i used to be
interested in open source, until two things
happened :

1 ) i grew up

2 ) i stopped believing in magical elves

and then a third :

3 ) open source / free software zealots began to
resemble nothing so much as fundamentalist bible
belt psychotics

and then a fourth :

4 ) i moved out in to the world and realized i
need to make a living

skroo j00

Re:hmm (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835134)

never /ever/ stop believing in magical elves. Magic pixie dust is /the/ final ingredient to good software. If you stop believing, pixie dust supply will stop, and none off your software will work. Due to that you'll grow up, find that community spirit, freedom and helping your friends is not important, and you'll find a proprietary coding job that'll suck because of lack of pixie dust.
So, believe in the pixies, embrace Free Software, and be happy. At least happy enough to be not so disgruntled to post unhappy posts and thoughts here because your current "making a living" job sucks so much.

All Hail the pixies!!!!!!!!!!

Re:hmm (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835306)

hahahah ;) .. i applaud your words .. my current
job does Not suck - i work from home and set my
own hours with plenty of compensation .. and i
don't do it by writing free software ;) ..

i just like to stir up shit :)

Re: "It's almost strange to be earning money..." (2, Insightful)

JessLeah (625838) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835035)

As much as I love Open-Source/Free Software, it IS very very hard to make a living making it. I'm not talking about writing code for an employer, and then getting permission to release it; I'm talking about actually making your living DIRECTLY off of making, releasing and "selling" open source/free software, a la Red Hat (who just recently turned a profit for the first time). I'd love to hear some more stories from people who've actually made money by coding OSS/FS.

Re: "It's almost strange to be earning money..." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835132)

Interesting, I've the opposite problem. I'd be willing to spend some money, but would hate it if it ended up in the pockets of someone who just continued with what he was already doing. I mean, I want my money to get an extra mile. For example, I'd like to see OpenOffice for Mac OS X finished a little earlier. I'd be willing to spend a little money on that.

Re: "It's almost strange to be earning money..." (1)

Renegade Lisp (315687) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835367)

For example, I'd like to see OpenOffice for Mac OS X finished a little earlier. I'd be willing to spend a little money on that.
I'm sure there are lots of people who feel the same about this or the other feature or port. It would be great if there was an infrastructure where people could donate money and programmers could take up work that these people wanted, the results being released as free software. It would be a great way of making a living with the stuff that we like doing.

I therefore don't understand your point that "I'd be willing to spend some money, but would hate it if it ended up in the pockets of someone who just continued with what he was already doing." -- I think that's the best way to spend your money, because it's gonna support the work of someone who is in it not just for the money. But sometimes, it does take money to pay the bills...

Seriously, I think I understand your point that you actually want your feature to be given priority. But you could make contracts to guarantee that, set deadlines, and what have you.

Re: "It's almost strange to be earning money..." (1)

Renegade Lisp (315687) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835271)

I call myself a "free software consultant", and I am making a considerable fraction of my income writing free software. I am paid by companies who use free software, and who want me to enhance it with new features. The other part of my income is teaching seminars in the J2EE field, and doing regular consulting work, usually with an emphasis on free software solutions. From my personal experience, I can say there are lots of opportunities if you really want to work in this field, and put the emphasis on free software.

Re: "It's almost strange to be earning money..." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6836164)

Perhaps the most common way is to actually write the Open Source stuff, and then make your living by:
  • Writing book(s) about things you wrote.
  • Speaking in conferences about things you wrote.
  • Working as consultant specializing in things you wrote.

I would say these are much more common (and more likely succeed) approaches than trying to directly sell things you wrote (not that that wasn't possible; it's just harder).

What about this Malloc routine.. (5, Funny)

adeyadey (678765) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835039)

What about this Malloc routine I've just written?
Do I get a prize?

Darl McBride

Re:What about this Malloc routine.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835092)

You now owe me a new glass of Pepsi and a new monitor. :)

Re:What about this Malloc routine.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835093)

I'll pay you my own way now, you sexy Mormon plum.
- The Giver [goatse.cx]

pgp key? (2, Interesting)

molo (94384) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835062)

That message is signed with a pgp key. However, the key doesn't seem to be available on the public key servers, so how can we validate the message?

If anyone has DSA key 0x7525EC32, please speak up.

-molo

Re:pgp key? (1)

nuntius (92696) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835085)

Gimme some time; I'm generating one to match that message. ;)

Thus Anna and the other girls learned even more (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835133)

Bad boy.

Stop trying to read... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835101)

all that nasty filth and become involved in the /. community. Stop taking and give a bit. Snoopy bastich.


Bung! [rogers.com]

Re:pgp key? (3, Funny)

daserver (524964) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835385)

Is this a new version of "Will the real slim shady please stand up"? Sorry couldn't resist.

Re:pgp key? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6836081)

I'm 0x7525EC32
yes I'm the real 0x7525EC32
all you other 0x7525EC32
are just 0xDEADBEEF
so won't the real 0x7525EC32
please..sign your public key..
please sign your..no, I think I lost the rhythm of this thing long ago.

Not so strange. (5, Insightful)

jtalkington (668415) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835089)

It's almost strange to earn money writing open source.

No, it's not. Linus, RMS, AC, BP, among many others have been getting paid to write free software for years.
Part of the stigma associated with OSS is that since it's associated with "volunteers," it is considered hobby level. Lots of people get paid to work on OSS, and ever increasing large software companies (e.g. IBM and Apple) have staff members working exclusively on OSS.

Re:Not so strange. (0, Troll)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835126)

Linus doesnt get paid to write free software. He writes VLIW shit for Transmeta last I heard, and I dont believe any of that is Free.

Even Mr Lunix needs a real job to pay the bills.

Re:Not so strange. (2, Informative)

r00zky (622648) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835159)

He's no longer working for Transmeta.
He's getting paid to write the kernel, paid by OSDL, more info here. [osdl.org]

Re:Not so strange. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835871)

Yup. They fired about 8 other people right before they hired him as well. Mostly kernel developers with 20+ years writing Unix kernels (Dynix, Dynix/PTX, BSD, and Linux).

Re:Not so strange. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835156)

i belive RMS earned his cash through HP no ? yeah well known for their free software are they ? not

get real, people need to earn a living or have you bought the GNU branding initative too ?

Re:Not so strange. (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 10 years ago | (#6836523)

Duh. RMS "earned his cash" through contract development of free software. Somebody wanted a new feature added to Emacs or a port of gcc to a new arch, they'd hire RMS. He'd get paid (handsomely), they'd get what they needed and we'd get the improvements in the Free software.

I don't know one way or the other, but nowadays I bet RMS makes more money from speaking engagements than he does from contract work. Just a guess though.

$300 per prize - is it too little ? (4, Interesting)

leoaugust (665240) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835123)

Besides the chance of winning one of fifteen monetary prizes totalling US$ 4500

Though it is good start that there is some money, but what comes to my mind is why so little ... 15 prizes averaging $ 300 each

  • that is about 8.5 hours of a coder worth $ 35 an hour
  • or 1 week (20 hours) of a grad students time ....
  • or 2 weeks (40 - 60 hours) of a coder in India's time
  • or 4 hours of a coder worth $ 75 an hour

I wonder why doesn't some philanthropist wanting to donate to charity or some rich guy wanting to support Linux just give a couple of hundred thousand dollars, or may be a few millions, in prize money - so that it can support a critical mass of programmers that can devote a decent amount of time ..... rather than the tens of hours that are "economically feasible" now ....

I know ... linux is not about money and all .... but still ... why couldn't it be ... everyone does not have to pay - just those people wanting it very badly have to pay while the rest get a free ride so that society as a whole benefits ...

and seriously - this is not meant to be flamebait ...

you donate... (1)

Thinkit3 (671998) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835187)

Look anywhere and you'll see paypal donating links. Who needs a philanthropist? Lots of individuals can do this. I've donated to xiph and mozilla.

Re:$300 per prize - is it too little ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835254)


see linux is a charity project, not a buisness

Re:$300 per prize - is it too little ? (2, Insightful)

Cthefuture (665326) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835262)

I was thinking the same thing. The top prize is $2000. Over four months that's less than $3 an hour. And that's if you win. Screw that.

Now sure, some people would just do it for the hell of it. However, if they are expecting quality code, it probably isn't going to happen. Anyone with any talent is going to pass this over.

Quite lame.

Re:$300 per prize - is it too little ? (4, Insightful)

rhysweatherley (193588) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835382)

It's a prize, not a wage.

Abe's Oddesy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835870)

Anyone else reminded of the displays on the back wall of the game that said:

"Work Hard, Die Young, Win Valuable Prizes!"

Re:$300 per prize - is it too little ? (1)

God! Awful 2 (631283) | more than 10 years ago | (#6836849)


I wonder why doesn't some philanthropist wanting to donate to charity or some rich guy wanting to support Linux just give a couple of hundred thousand dollars, or may be a few millions, in prize money - so that it can support a critical mass of programmers that can devote a decent amount of time

It's common sense. Most people with $1 million to spare didn't get rich by giving their money away. Also, very few of them got rich by giving away their product for free.

-a

DotGNU Control Freaks (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835145)

ryhs and gopal are a bunch of control freaks who belittle any contributors to DotGNU calling these contribors "minor". Read the old mailing lists and you will see. This is why i have refused to contribute to their broken implementation.

"Competition"? (1, Redundant)

wcdw (179126) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835194)

Sounds more like using reverse psychology to get people to work for slave wages.

Or perhaps I was just put off by the #irc and pnetlib contribution requirements....

DotGNU/GNU (0, Troll)

SuperBanana (662181) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835228)

Apparently DotGNU seems to be offering more than the 'warm fuzzy feeling' to its contributors.

That's DotGNU/GNU you insensitive clod!

So much for the warm fuzzy feelings.

Re:DotGNU/GNU (0, Offtopic)

SuperBanana (662181) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835530)

(Score:-1, Troll)

DUDES. It's a JOKE. Oh well, serves me right for posting during labor day weekened, when the lusers are the only people around.

Oh wait...

PNET vs Mono (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835319)

Basically Mono's FAQ trashes DotGNU and Mono at every chance. Miguel and the Mono crew has had a smear campaign against DotGNU since day one.

DotGNU in the past has tried to cooperate and initiated talks in sharing resources, but this didn't go well with Mono.

The true difference between Portable.NET and Mono is Portable.NET has chosen different technical decisions.

#1: The compiler is written in C/C++ not C# itself, so it doesn't have the chicken or the egg problem. Mono's CVS is very difficult to get a handle of because of this. PNET's compiler is about 3x as fast as Mono's.

#2: The topic at hand, winforms.. PNET's winforms only dependancy is X, which means their winforms work on handhelds, osx, etc. Very portable. Mono's requires Wine, not very portable to say the least.

Thats a rough quick sum.

Re:PNET vs Mono (1)

krumms (613921) | more than 10 years ago | (#6836094)

Basically Mono's FAQ trashes DotGNU and Mono at every chance.

They trash their own software??? Harsh! :P

I beg to differ (3, Informative)

jpmorgan (517966) | more than 10 years ago | (#6836161)

DotGNU in the past has tried to cooperate and initiated talks in sharing resources, but this didn't go well with Mono.

I was involved in that argument. If I recall correctly, it was a Rhys Weatherly and some others demanding that the Mono be placed under the DotGNU steering committee and that everybody work on their project instead. Of course, at the time it was quite obvious that DotGNU was mostly ideologues who were obsessed with 'defeating Microsoft' through some embrace and extend tactics, whereas most of the Mono hackers were fairly pragmatic about the whole issue: 'This is pretty cool! I'd love to see an implementation of this in Linux!'. Most of the people who weren't turned off by the downright abrasiveness of Rhys were turned off by the zealous ideology.

As for bad-mouthing, the only thing the Mono FAQ says about Portable.NET as opposed to Mono is that it the runtime (and compiler) are much less tested. Ximian claims that by developing the compiler and most of the rest of Mono in C#, the whole toolchain has been given a much more rigourous workout than Portable.NET.

In fact, I'd say the badmouthing has been much more in the other direction: there used to be a page around on the DotGNU website (not sure if it's still there) badmouthing Mono. None of the claims had any substance. For example, it claimed that Mono was on shaky legal grounds with regards to hidden Microsoft patents, which may perhaps be true. However, Portable.NET/DotGNU isn't safe from those legal threats either. Further, while Mono was developed from the ECMA (and now ISO) specifications, Portable.NET was initially developed by reverse engineering Microsoft's .NET implementation (without any clean-room engineering), putting it at risk of copyright infringement claims as well as patent claims. This was also part of the reason why there was little interest from Mono in merging the class libraries.

I suspect things are probably more civil these days. Cooler heads usually prevail in the end.

As for your other claims....

#1: The compiler is written in C/C++ not C# itself, so it doesn't have the chicken or the egg problem. Mono's CVS is very difficult to get a handle of because of this. PNET's compiler is about 3x as fast as Mono's.

Mono's CVS is easy to handle. It is distributed with a partial prebuilt toolchain, that is then used to build the entire toolchain. It's all MSIL, so there are no platform portability issues. It is also standard practice to write a compiler in its own language.

#2: The topic at hand, winforms.. PNET's winforms only dependancy is X, which means their winforms work on handhelds, osx, etc. Very portable. Mono's requires Wine, not very portable to say the least.

WinForms contains a number of window-isms, which the Wine project have already implemented. Reimplementing winelib seems silly and a waste of energy. I can't imagine it'd be appreciably harder to port Mono's WinForms implementation across platforms had it been written from scratch than it would be to port winelib itself. And if winelib gets ported, people other than Mono users and developers can benefit from that work.

Anyway, just my $0.02.

License? (3, Interesting)

DickBreath (207180) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835335)

Can DotGNU be used by a developer who wants to put their own work into making a web based, for pay application, that is closed source, but using DotGNU's tools and platform?

I love free software and open source, use them, advocate them, and even write some small time stuff and license it LGPL. During the day, I work for a company that develops and sells a software program.

Here is a quote from the FAQ of DotGNU's Vision for WebServices [dotgnu.org] .

Am I obligated to give away my webservice source code?


You are not automatically obligated to distribute your source code, and you are certainly not obligated to just give it away. However, if you sell webservice services, then your customers will expect that you make them the "owner of the data" which the webservice uses, and depending on the exact circumstances that may indirectly give these customers a right to get the source code upon request. Here are the details:

If you provide a webservice using a GPL'd webservice program (which you may have modified), then the "owner of the data" will be able to obtain the webservices programs under the terms of the GNU GPL, and this implies in particular that they will have a right to get the source code of the exact version of the program which you're using. The terms of the GNU GPL also require you to make a written promise to this "owner of the data" that you will be willing to provide the source code upon request. This ensures that the "owner of the data" will know about this right to the source code.

The "owner of the data" is typically a paying customer, and the fact that the customer has a right to get the source code increases the value of the service you provide. Therefore you will be able to charge a higher price and/or close more sales.

You can use the DotGNU development tools to program your own webservices (instead of just modifying the webservice programs which are distributed with DotGNU, or which others have made available under the GNU GPL) and then your are not required to make source code for these webservices available to the customer who is the "owner of the data". However, even in these situations where you are not required to make the source code available to your customers, we strongly encourage you to provide the source code to your customers under the terms of the GNU GPL anyway. We believe that this is ethically the right thing to do, and that it will be good for your business.


Now I thought the GPL would not prevent this sort of thing? Now I'm really confused.

I'm sure glad that GNU thinks they know what would be good for my employer's business and that my employer should charege more for their program (which is for schools).

I thought I had a good solid understanding of the GPL [gnu.org] . I've taken the GPL quiz [gnu.org] , read the GPL Faq [gnu.org] before.

I thought the GPL only applied to copying and distribution of a program or derrived work. Not to running it privately on my own web site.

If I distribute my proprietary program, along side a DotGNU program / platform that executes it, I would not think that my program comes under the scope of the GPL.

If I do NOT distribute my proprietary program, but merely run it at my site, and merely sell it as a service, then I was definitely under the impression that the GPL did not apply since no distribution takes place.

Still, back to the case where I distribute my program, and a seperate DotGNU program to run it, then I would not think that my program comes under the scope of the GPL.

Maybe I had better just stay completely away from DotGNU. Stick with Apache and various Java tools instead.

Just a side note about the customer having their data held hostage inside a proprietary program: we provide more, and more sophisticated ways to get data out of our system than into it.

Any insightful or informative comments?

Re:License? (1)

Malcontent (40834) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835944)

The dotGNU web services license seems to be a superset of the GPL. I don't think the GPL forces you to distribute web services code.

stay away from all of them for now (3, Interesting)

penguin7of9 (697383) | more than 10 years ago | (#6836049)

Maybe I had better just stay completely away from DotGNU. Stick with Apache and various Java tools instead.

The Apache license is fine, but Java doesn't look like a big win to me. While Sun keeps proclaiming that the platform is open, in reality, large parts of the platform only exist as Sun proprietary code. Even if someone managed to reimplement them, Sun controls the compatibility tests and they can shoot down any implementation they don't like.

At this point, I'd not get involved with any of Java, PNET, or .NET--the one thing all of them seem to agree on is that they want to entangle users in a web of intellectual property. Well, actually there is another thing that they seem to agree on: all of them want to run your code in a bloated runtime that's slow to start up. Mono seems to have the most straightforward license of the bunch, but even Mono is at risk of patent infringement claims from Microsoft.

Just wait for the dust to settle and for Sun and Microsoft to come to their senses with their outrageous intellectual property claims. Until then, you have plenty of other options--there is nothing technically new in any of those platforms.

Only for the incrowd? (1)

mikiN (75494) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835364)

Reading the announcement, one passage struck me as odd:

2. At least one of your code contributions (a new file or a
modification of an existing file) must have been accepted
into the pnetlib System.Windows.Forms codebase.

Does this mean that only those who already have had code accepted into the codebase can enter the competition? Or am I mixing up verb tenses (passive present perfect, passive future perfect) here?

Re:Only for the incrowd? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6835397)

No, the passage means the following:
If you are hacking on System.Windows.Forms at least one of your code contributions needs to get accepted into the official pnetlib so that you are considered as a participant.

The contest - of course - isn't restricted to people who already contributed something.

Speaking of dotgnu/.NET.... (1)

tcopeland (32225) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835603)

...there's a Ruby to .NET bridge [rubyforge.org] over on RubyForge.

Not sure how much effort it would be to get it working with dotgnu as well... maybe it wouldn't be too bad since much of the connector code appears to be in lib/dotnet/bridge.rb. Lots of C# code in there, though.

You cannot trust stallman with any funds at all (-1, Troll)

AN0THER NAME (701664) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835690)

Look at the man for fuck's sake. Look at his glazed eyes and tell me he wouldn't turn around and buy $4500 worth of LSD. Look at his greasy clothes and tell me it wuld take less than $4500 for him to get even a handjob from the loweest kind of prostitute. Look at his gut and tell me he wouldn't go on an eating binge and buy $4500 worth of twinkies.

The only thing we can safely assume is that he would NOT spend a single penny on soaps, perfumed or regular...or on any hygene products at all.

Standard comment #346 (2, Insightful)

UserAlreadyExists (575130) | more than 10 years ago | (#6835904)

I wouldn't support such a project. If you try to copy MS, you'll always be behind. Reverse engineering takes a lot of time and it's a moving target, since they can change .NET at will. Look at GNU Classpath (Java reimplementation): they're way behind.

In these cases I think it's better to create a project that offers the same general functionality, but in a distinctive, better way.

If only I wasn't so lazy...

Imagine... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6836383)

a beowolf cluster of competitors...

The /. effect (1)

Flingles (698457) | more than 10 years ago | (#6836474)

But hardly anyone seems to have seen the Newsforge posts (except maybe me)

Not anymore!
/idiot>

Popularity Contest (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 10 years ago | (#6836540)

The contributions will be judged considering not only the quantity and quality of the contributed code, but taking in consideration also how well the competition participants use the #dotgnu irc channel, the mailing lists and the wiki for coordinating their coding efforts, and for helping newcomers with getting started.

Okay helping newcomers get started, that's fine, but shouldn't we be judging people primarily on their ability to write code that's useful and easy to read, understand, and extend? I don't think it's reasonable to judge people on their social skills beyond a certain point. (People too abrasive to collaborate with, for example, are reasonably disqualified unless they single-handledly write the whole damn show.)

Pfffff (0, Troll)

Laconian (578463) | more than 10 years ago | (#6837072)

Look at those paltry prizes. Even if I was the 1337est programmer on Earth, I still wouldn't quit my day job for Open Sores. Add another zero to the end and let's talk. Or three. Or six. $2000.000000! Now we're talking.
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