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SCO Fined in Munich For Linux Claims

CmdrTaco posted more than 10 years ago | from the can-we-do-that-here-too dept.

The Courts 436

nordi writes "heise.de reports (in German) that SCO Germany has to pay a fine of 10,000 Euros (~10,800 US$) because they kept on saying that Linux contains stolen intellectual property of SCO. In May a German court had decided that SCO Germany must not continue making those claims." Yes, it's auf Deutsch, so break out babelfish.

cancel ×

436 comments

We can only hope (5, Insightful)

mao che minh (611166) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849842)

$10,800 USD seems a bit low, considering that SCOs lies and threats have probably damaged Linux companies and consultants many times that amount. While the US legal system appears impotent in the face of this slandering and despicable business tactic, Germany is obviously prepared for this nonsense. Since the effects of SCOs claims have the potential of effecting companies in just about every nation on Earth, I say that Germany fine them appropriately, and even get the European Union in on the action.

At the end of the day, companies like Microsoft and SCO won't be stopped by the US. The best we can do is waste a couple hundred million in tax dollars on a useless court case that is headed by a puppet judge. We can only hope that the EU will save us, a body that acts swiftly against vil business tactics, and usually solidly (just look at how they dealt with Nintendo).

Re:We can only hope (5, Insightful)

Richardsonke1 (612224) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849857)

It's more important that they have seen that they are lying. I wouldn't care if they fined them $1, as long as it has been taken to court and they have shown that their claims are baseless. That damage is in the past, stop it from happening anymore in the future.

Re:We can only hope (5, Informative)

presroi (657709) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849916)

It's more important that they have seen that they are lying.


Please don't misunderstand this fine. This is not about the (doubtful) statements of SCO.

SCO GmbH in Germany was only fined because they did not fully comply with a preliminary injunction which told them not to repeat certain statements.

Re:We can only hope (1)

peterprior (319967) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849928)

Mod this parent up... I can see a lot of people making this mistake...

Re:We can only hope (1)

Richardsonke1 (612224) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849934)

Sorry, I can't ready German very well ;-) And the babelfish translation was quite obfuscated.

Re:We can only hope (1)

presroi (657709) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849955)

A German saying is:

"Der Wunsch war Vater des Gedankens"

"The was father of the thought"

(I don't know if the translation left the meaning alive but I think we are all waiting for a judge who finishes this SCO behavior by negating SCO's claims)

Re:We can only hope (1)

richie2000 (159732) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849984)

Shouldn't that be: "The wish was father of the thought"?

Re:We can only hope (1)

presroi (657709) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850028)

argh. you were right.

I asked my favourite dictionary [leo.org] for "wunsch" but i did not copy the result to the /. form. Shame on me.

Re:We can only hope (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6850005)

"The wish is father to the thought" auf Englisch.

PS Apparently Americans say "The apple never falls far from the tree", which is a translation from German that English English doesn't have, AFAIK. There are probably lots of these.

Re:We can only hope (4, Interesting)

mr_z_beeblebrox (591077) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850086)

SCO GmbH in Germany was only fined because they did not fully comply with a preliminary injunction which told them not to repeat certain statements.

Yes, this does not mean that they see that they are lying. Only that they did not comply with a court order to quit lying ;-)
Seriously, I think this will be viewed as a major setback by SCO. They are trying to coerce people into buying licenses and now they can point to a country which has effectively gagged them. People will become wary of $cos dubious claims.

Re:We can only hope (1, Funny)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849864)

Sure, the fine may be low, but this is a first fine. Wait until they get hit again .. and again ... and again.

Also, it gives us something to point to and say - "These guys have been fined by a judge for their lies. Take that, Shithead^H^H^H^H^H^HMcBride" :-)

All in all, this is great news.

Re:We can only hope (5, Informative)

JanneM (7445) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849873)

That's just a fine for non-compliance with a court order. Suing SCO over defamation or damaged business is a different matter - and something that is likely a lot easier with this fine as a background.

Re:We can only hope (4, Informative)

presroi (657709) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849875)

$10,800 USD seems a bit low, considering that SCOs lies and threats have probably damaged Linux companies and consultants many times that amount.


You were right if this fine was for messing around with the Linux community. This fine is only because SCO did not follow a preliminary injunction promptly. Certain statements were shown on sco.de *after* this injunction came into effect.

If you speak German, you might check out the original injunction (one of many) a this place here [univention.de] .

Re:We can only hope (0, Redundant)

lamename (655712) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849917)

Indeed it doesn't seem like a lot of money. Now if they make 10,000 for each day of SCO's idiocy and lies, we will be talking real money.

I hope this is the first of many fines for these scumbags.

Re:We can only hope (5, Insightful)

Zeinfeld (263942) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849949)

At the end of the day, companies like Microsoft and SCO won't be stopped by the US. The best we can do is waste a couple hundred million in tax dollars on a useless court case that is headed by a puppet judge.

Jackson a puppet of Microsoft? What are you on? Can I get some?

Jackson was the best thing that happened to Microsoft, Boies was the next best, but not by intention. Jackson was so gratuitously biased that there was no way the appeals court could possibly have backed his decision.

Having watched David Boies in action in the Microsoft, Florida and Napster cases I am convinced that his reputation is vastly over-rated. He was responsible for botching the Microsoft case, he fought the case on the weakest complaints, not the strongest ones. In Florida he let the Bushies roll right over him. His arguments in Napster were profoundly unconvincing.

Re:We can only hope (3, Insightful)

autopr0n (534291) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850053)

Having watched David Boies in action in the Microsoft, Florida and Napster cases I am convinced that his reputation is vastly over-rated.

Lets not forget this one, Boies is Lead Counsel for SCO.

Re:We can only hope (3, Interesting)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850003)

It is $10,800 this time. If they continue to do it the charges will mount. All in all a pretty fair system. Now how will they deal with it is interesting. Considering that information travels pretty freely across boarders. Will this ruling effect statments made by SCO USA or only SCO Germany?
All they really might have to do is send the press releases from the US office.

Re:We can only hope (3, Insightful)

Fnkmaster (89084) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850009)

I would say that $10,800 seems low for willfully failing to comply with a preliminary injunction, which is what this fine is for. The fine for ignoring court orders should be a heck of a lot higher than that for a decent sized company. Of course, there's still presumably the potential for much larger damages later if they were found to commit whatever the German equivalent of slander is, thereby damaging many people's businesses (are civil and criminal proceedings combined in Germany as in many other European jurisdictions?).

Re:We can only hope (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6850020)

The ammount of money doesn't matter. The real and only aim of this judgement was to create a precedence. This has been done and now companies whose image has been damaged by SCO are free to go and hunt for the big money in german courts referring to this precedence. The benefit are faster trials and less money such companies have to spend.. That's the way it is.. not in the US.. but in germany.

Re:We can only hope (4, Funny)

Brahmastra (685988) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850021)

A better fine would be $10,800 each for every Linux user they sent an extortion letter to.

Re:We can only hope (2, Interesting)

4lex (648184) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850035)

It's just 10.000 euro per offense. So, while it is just unfunny to offend with a web page (just one offense), it would be suicidical to start a letter campaign in Germany...

Re:We can only hope (1)

Karamchand (607798) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850059)

While the US legal system appears impotent in the face of this slandering and despicable business tactic, Germany is obviously prepared for this nonsense.

Sorry to say that but that's because Germany - and most other European countries as well - don't have such a twisted view on "freedom of speech".

GNAA Announces acquisition of SCO (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6849843)

GNAA Announces acquisition of SCO
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macewan, on linuxquestions [linuxquestions.org] said "Thanks for that link to the SCO quotes page. My guess is that they want to be bought out. Hrm, think they want GNAA to buy them??"

After careful consideration and debate, GNAA board of directors agreed to purchase 6,426,600 preferred shares and 113,102 common shares (the equivalent of 150,803 ADSs) of SCO, for an aggregate consideration of approximately US$26.9 million and approximately $40 million for gay niggers that were working in Lindon, Utah offices of The SCO Group.

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SCO and the associated SCO logo are trademarks or registered trademarks of The SCO Group, Inc. in the U.S. and other countries. UNIX and UnixWare are registered trademarks of The Open Group in the United States and other countries. All other brand or product names are or may be trademarks of their respective owners.

This news release contains forward-looking statements that involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions. All statements other than statements of historical fact are statements that could be deemed forward-looking statements. These statements are based on management's current expectations and are subject to uncertainty and changes in circumstances. Actual results may vary materially from the expectations contained herein. The forward-looking statements contained herein include statements about the consummation of the transaction with SCO and benefits of the pending transaction with SCO. Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described herein include the inability to obtain regulatory approvals and the inability to successfully integrate the SCO business. GNAA is under no obligation to (and expressly disclaims any such obligation to) update or alter its forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.


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` _______________________________________________'

10$ to alloted to SM. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6849850)

Out of the 10000, 10$ were alloted to a AC on slashdot for FP.
--
SM

Karma Whoring (5, Informative)

euphline (308359) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849855)

Google Translation Follows:


SCO Germany must pay 10,000 euro order money. Basis for the decision of the regional court Munich I is a provisional order of the enterprise Tarent and the LinuxTags against SCO. thereafter may not the enterprise not maintain, of Linux contains illegitimately acquired mental property of SCO. against it is to SCO on its homepage to have offended, why Tarent had requested an order procedure in June .

The court accuses negligent behavior "according to a report of the Tarent GmbH SCO" with the enterprise of its firm homepage . There the statement is to have read be also after the provisional order that "final users, who use the software Linux for protection injuries of the mental property can be made liable by SCO".

Tarent lawyer Till hunter sees itself confirmed in the decision of the court that the statements of SCO as "substantial business-damaging expressions" are to be regarded, which concern a "extremely sensitive range". With unproven statements expense the expense third a business with the fear one make. With SCO Germany to time anybody for a statement cannot be attained; to request on a procedure stress Hans Bavarian, Managing director of SCO Germany, already beginning June opposite c't: "our intention was to hold back us conformal." The offence against the provisional order did not happen deliberately. ( anw /c't)

Re:Karma Whoring (0)

alext (29323) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849918)

Thanks. Then again, I have heard that one or two German speakers are just about able get by in English, so if we're very very lucky something resembling a translation may appear. 10/10 for effort though!

Re:Karma Whoring (1)

glassesmonkey (684291) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849929)

At least fix the lawyer's name "Till hunter" which Babelfish butchered and the expression 'mental property' commonly refered to as intellectual property in the million SCO articles a month posted here.

Mental property? (1)

zonix (592337) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849970)

contains illegitimately acquired mental property

Mental Property? That's a new one. :-)

z

Re:Mental property? (1)

TedCheshireAcad (311748) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850012)

Mental Property? That's a new one. :-)

I copyrighted that thought in 1997. Pay up, sucka.

Also figuring.. (-1, Offtopic)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849856)

That sopme 18% of Germany's OS is a Linux based OS.

THANKS SuSE ;-) HAVE A NICE DAY

10000 euros: big deal (-1, Flamebait)

desitter (609588) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849858)

wow. this will really put a dent in sco's operations.

Babelfish Link (4, Informative)

telstar (236404) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849859)

Or link to Babelfish [altavista.com] and save us the trouble.

Jesse Owens (-1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6849866)

Munich, eh? Reminds me of 1936.

We know who the Nazis are in this. Let's hope the little penguin does a Jesse Owens and scoots right past them.

Re:Jesse Owens (1)

pair-a-noyd (594371) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850089)

are you like this by nature or were you dropped on your head when you were little??

those +funny5 posts on slashdot (-1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6849868)

Since the IBM suit was launched, SCO has been blasted by Linux enthusiasts and developers.

Yeah, those +funny5 posts on slashdot are a real blast.

Re:those +funny5 posts on slashdot (-1, Offtopic)

Vargasan (610063) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849919)

At least it wasn't "MSBlast", huh?

HAR HAR HAR!

Sarcasm (-1, Troll)

TheRealGigabyte (691973) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849870)

Wow, First SCO story of the day! Lets see if we can go for more!

Babelfish translation (-1, Redundant)

numb (241932) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849872)

Here is the babelfish translation for the lazy one.

SCO must pay order money

SCO Germany must pay 10,000 euro order money. Basis for the decision of the regional court Munich I is a provisional order of the enterprise Tarent and the LinuxTags against SCO. Afterwards the enterprise may not state, of Linux contains illegitimately acquired mental property of SCO. On the other hand SCO is to have offended on its homepage, why Tarent had requested an order procedure in June .

The court accuses negligent behavior "according to a report of the Tarent GmbH SCO" with the enterprise of its firm homepage . There the statement is to have read be also after the provisional order that "final users, who use the software Linux for protection injuries of the mental property can be made liable by SCO".

Tarent lawyer Till hunter sees itself confirmed in the decision of the court that the statements of SCO as "substantial business-damaging expressions" are to be regarded, which concern a "extremely sensitive range". With unproven statements at expense third a business with the fear one make. With SCO Germany to time anybody for a statement cannot be attained; _ to request on a procedure stress Hans Bavarian, Managing director of SCO Germany, already beginning June opposite c't: "our intention was to hold back us conformal." The offence against the provisional order did not happen deliberately (anw/c't)

Google Translation for the German Impaired.! (-1, Redundant)

Shivaji Maharaj (692442) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849877)

Here [google.com] is google translation for the German impaired. -- SM

Not LSD! (-1, Offtopic)

StickMang (568987) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849878)

Well everyone knows that two wrongs don't make a right, but three copyrights make a copyleft :) It makes sense, when you really hunker down and think about it. SCO has committed the most vile of sin. The article didn't mention if you received a license for one cpu along with the immunity from the standard baby killing.

This Comment was generated with the Comment-O-Matic for SCO Stories. [rageagainst.net]

Re:Not LSD! (-1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6849971)

Where's the link to the Karma-O-Matic random moderation generator?

Or is that "Interesting" mod the actual result of a "live" slashbot moderator?

Google fish! (-1, Redundant)

anonymous coword (615639) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849881)

Google has a fish too! [google.com] .

Illegitimately acquired mental property... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6849964)

thereafter may not the enterprise not maintain, of Linux contains illegitimately acquired mental property of SCO

I nominate the phrase "illegitimately acquired mental property" as the catchy phrase of the month for September.

Not the amount (4, Insightful)

TuataraShoes (600303) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849882)

It's not the amount of the fine that's important. (Who gets the money anyway.) It's the 'official' trashing of SCO's accusations which is important. It will restore confidence in business considering Linux systems.

Re:Not the amount (3, Informative)

Confused (34234) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850011)

This fine has not been levied because SCO is lying.

The german LinuxTag is currently suing SCO german to forbid them to claim Linux contains illegal parts of Unix in Germany. As part of the procedure, a temporary injunction has been granted which orders SCO Germany not to use those claims until the matter is settled. SCO only failed to comply with this court order and has been fined for it.

Should LinuxTag lose the lawsuit, SCO can ask from them for damages resulting from the injucntion.

But in no way this has any relevance whether the claims by SCO are true or whether they're lying.

Re:Not the amount (1)

EvilTwinSkippy (112490) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850031)

Amen to that. The courts, I think, are starting to to wrest back their control from the courts of public opinion.

Re:Not the amount (1)

GoofyBoy (44399) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850046)


As long as that business is in Germany.

For every other business person in the world (execept maybe some other European countries) this mean very little.

Re:Not the amount (1)

presroi (657709) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850075)

It's not the amount of the fine that's important. (Who gets the money anyway.) It's the 'official' trashing of SCO's accusations which is important.

You too, my dear friend, misunderstood this fine. It was not because SCO could not prove anything but rather the other side could prove that SCO did not follow to a preliminary injunction from some weeks ago.

This is still good news but it was not about SCO's claims regarding Linux.

According to SCO-Germany's CEO, they were not given authorisation to present any proof to the judge. (Obviously, you won't find a German judge who signs a NDA). But all this was relevant *before* the preliminary injunction came into effect. The whole debate today was about SCO's efforts to comply with this preliminary injunction. You bette not mix those two 'battle fields'.

*Chink* Chisel away (4, Interesting)

curtisk (191737) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849883)

At least it sets some precident in this "case". The fine is measely interms of the FUD they are spreading, hopefully others will follow suit in the legal realm and take SCO to task.

Now, why would SCO germany pay, if they have SUCH a solid case??

Side Note: Babelfish is aptly named, the translations are usually Babble

Re:*Chink* Chisel away (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850054)

they pay because otherwise the court system takes the money forcefully from them? they were told to not spread any more of their claims before they're proven(or pay the fine, i imagine the system would raise the fine again and again until they do what they're told if they were to disobey the order, at least this is pretty standard if you want somebody to obey). it's not like it was some crooked and cooked up settlement they could choose to take or not and bid on. you don't settle fines(whats the point in them), except maybe in the us of a. heck, i imagine if they don't pay up they get them bankrupted for not being able to pay.

-

Penalties in the US are going to be stiffer.. (-1, Flamebait)

flea69 (667238) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849890)

In related news Darl McBride has been sentenced to a makeover on "Queer Eye for a Straight Guy" for his companies sins.

Re:Penalties in the US are going to be stiffer.. (-1, Offtopic)

pair-a-noyd (594371) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850073)

Darl is straight??? Who would have ever thought!

it's about time... (-1, Redundant)

kfuq (513110) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849893)

it's about time that someone is "getting a pair" and standing up to these liars...

The fine may be small now, but could open up the doors to alot more actions like this...

Barry Bonds comes through again! (-1)

BarryBondsTroll (699883) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849896)

PHOENIX (AP) -- Considering what he's been through lately, Barry Bonds decided it was time for the game to end. Hours after being released from the hospital, Bonds hit a two-run, bases-loaded single in the ninth inning to lead the San Francisco Giants to a 2-0 victory over the Arizona Diamondbacks on Monday. "Don't leave it up to me," he said. "I don't like to play overtime." Bonds, scratched from the lineup minutes before the first pitch Sunday because of exhaustion, was released from the hospital after staying overnight to have his vital signs monitored. He argued at the time about the hospitalization, but said it was the right thing to do. "I just had problems with my heart and chest," Bonds said. "I couldn't get around it. It was just safer for me to go there than to try to play." Sunday's game was the second Bonds missed in the series with the Diamondbacks for reasons related to the death of his father, Bobby Bonds, on Aug. 23. He left Saturday night's game in the eighth inning after homering off Randy Johnson earlier in the contest because his heartbeat rose to more than twice normal and he had trouble breathing. He said he felt fine throughout the game Monday, and didn't have his vital signs monitored. Bonds was hitless in three at-bats against Curt Schilling, but that wasn't the case against Mike Myers, Arizona's left-handed specialist. The slugger lined a 1-0 pitch just to the left of the mound and into the outfield, scoring two of the three runners Myers inherited from Oscar Villarreal (7-6), who walked Eric Young and allowed singles to J.T. Snow and Marquis Grissom without getting an out. Bonds is .400 (8-for-25) lifetime against Myers, with two doubles and a walkoff homer against him the last time they faced off -- July 24 in Pac Bell Park. "The last time was a homer," manager Felipe Alou said. "This time he was looking to hit a line drive, which he did." Sidney Ponson (3-3) worked eight solid innings for the victory that sent the Giants to 13-3 against the Diamondbacks, 3-1 in their last visit to Phoenix. Tim Worrell pitched a perfect ninth for his 32nd save in 38 opportunities. Ponson and Schilling dueled for eight innings in a classic matchup. Ponson allowed six hits and one walk, striking out three. "It's one of those things where I go out there and try to do what I can control -- throw strikes, get outs -- and today it worked out," Ponson said. Schilling gave up five hits, walked none and struck out 10 in eight innings -- his ninth game in double-digits this year and the 86th of his career. "He pitched as good as he can possibly pitch," Arizona manager Bob Brenly said, disgusted with another poor offensive showing. "If it sounds familiar, it's because I've said it about a million times in the last month -- he pitched well enough to win." He was lifted for pinch-hitter Mark Grace in the eighth, but Grace popped up for the second out. Ponson, who won his third straight in six starts since the Giants acquired him from Baltimore for right-hander Kurt Ainsworth on July 31, then walked Craig Counsell and gave up a hit to Alex Cintron before retiring Raul Mondesi on a popup to first in foul territory. Schilling reached deep to keep his shutout in the seventh. Grissom singled to lead off, and reached third on Schilling's two-base throwing error. Schilling tried to pick him off, but threw to first baseman Carlos Baerga's right -- behind Grissom, who was already at the bag. Before Junior Spivey got over from second to get the ball, Grissom was on his way to third. But Schilling, who struck out Bonds before the misplay, also struck out Rich Aurilia and Edgardo Alfonzo. "Right now, pitching, it's almost as if every run is the losing run out there," Schilling said. "But it is what it is. You deal with it, and you've got to make your pitches." Bonds hit a dribbler in front of home in the second inning and grounding out to first in the fourth. After the inning-ending groundout, he and Schilling exchanged words, calling to mind the July 12 game -- Schilling's first after returning from the disabled list to recover from a broken hand. Bonds homered -- one of six hits and five runs the right-hander allowed in an 8-1 loss -- and Schilling hit Bonds in his next at-bat. Ponson got the third hit off Schilling, becoming the first Giants player to reach second with a one-out double that rolled to the fence in right-center in the sixth. But he was stranded when Young grounded out and Snow struck out. The Diamondbacks started with back-to-back singles by Counsell and Cintron, but Ponson retired 12 straight before Steve Finley led off Arizona's fifth with a single. Notes: The Giants activated three regulars from the DL, but only Snow was able to play, got a start at 1B. ... The Giants have won 10 of their last 13. ... Schilling had Arizona's third straight double-digit strikeout game against the Giants. Johnson had 11 on Saturday and Brandon Webb 11 on Sunday. Copyright 2003 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. CHECK IT OUT Donovan: NL wild card race too crowded to bear Bonds returns, delivers game-winning hit Red Sox outlast Phillies on Nixon's s

Now let's watch... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6849897)

Let's all sit back and watch their stocks go up as a result.

Good (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6849898)

Good, hope this is the beginning of the end.

It's the principle that counts (4, Informative)

heironymouscoward (683461) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849899)

Once SCO has been sued, the amount does not matter. If the plaintiffs (I must RTFA) can enjoin SCO to stop their claims, and get the courts to set damages, each time SCO repeats their offense, they'll pay again.
Besides, I strongly suspect that a conviction in a German court will weigh heavily against SCO in other courts should this become a popular tactic.
Even a 1 EUR award would be a significant blow against SCO's position.

Re:It's the principle that counts (1)

GoofyBoy (44399) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849999)

>Besides, I strongly suspect that a conviction in a German court will weigh heavily against SCO in other courts

Are European courts really that tied together?

I know that, except for evidence presented, what goes on in courts in the US has no bearing on the court-judgement in Canada.

Shouldn't that be the way in Europe?

Translated here... (-1, Redundant)

glassesmonkey (684291) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849901)

So we don't kill the fish..
Message from 02.09.2003 12:16

SCO must pay order money

SCO Germany must pay 10,000 euro order money. Basis for the decision of the regional court Munich I is a provisional order of the enterprise Tarent and the LinuxTags against SCO. thereafter may not the enterprise not maintain, of Linux contains illegitimately acquired intellectual property of SCO. against it is to SCO on its homepage to have offended, why Tarent had requested an order procedure in June.

The court accuses negligent behavior "according to a report of the Tarent GmbH SCO" with the enterprise of its firm homepage . There the statement is to have read be also after the provisional order that "final users, who use the software Linux for protection injuries of the intellectual property can be made liable by SCO".

Tarent lawyer Till Jaeger sees itself confirmed in the decision of the court that the statements of SCO as "substantial business-damaging expressions" are to be regarded, which concern a "extremely sensitive range". With unproven statements at expense third a business with the fear one make. With SCO Germany to time anybody for a statement cannot be attained; _ to request on a procedure stress Hans Bavarian, Managing director of SCO Germany, already beginning June opposite c't: "our intention was to hold back us conformal." The offence against the provisional order did not happen deliberately. ( anw /c't)

SCO Sucks Gear (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6849902)

GeekProdigy.com [geekprodigy.com] has 'SCO SUCKS' hats and T-Shirts, and Buttons!

In other news (4, Funny)

mao che minh (611166) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849905)

In other news, Microsoft chairman and cofounder Bill Gates expressed regret, and is reportedly highly upset that Microsoft must pay $10,000 ($10,800 USD) Euros in legal expenses, after a judgement was passed by German courts.

;)

Contempt of court? (4, Funny)

Picass0 (147474) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849908)

I'm sure that SCO will pay the 10k euro without blinking, but they are unlikely the change their bahavior. Then what? In the US the continuation of claims after paying the fine would eventually lead to contempt of court charges. Would this not be the case in Germany as well?

Darl in a German prison. That thought makes me smile :)

Overzealous regulators; let the market decide (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6849909)

What? A court deciding that SCO can't make unsubstantiated claims that damage other companies? That's socialism! It's not for the government to pick winners and losers. Let SCO say anything it wants to and let the marketplace decide whether or not to believe them.

Re:Overzealous regulators; let the market decide (5, Insightful)

bit01 (644603) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849986)

Get real. The free market is a myth. Every market has rules to stop negative behaviour (eg. lying about competitors products, engaging in monopolistic behaviour, running a protection racket) while allowing positive behaviour (eg. improving product, lowering prices).

What do you call 10,000 Euros? (4, Funny)

advocate_one (662832) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849910)

A good start...

bit like one of those "dead lawyer" jokes...

And the SCO Information Minister Says... (3, Funny)

Joel Carr (693662) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849914)

I wonder what sort of spin the SCO Information Minister is going to put on this one... I bet it's all IBM's fault again!

http://WeLoveTheSCOInformationMinister.org

---

Re:And the SCO Information Minister Says... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6849946)

McBride proudly dumped two phone-book-sized binders of press clippings
on the stage during his SCO Forum keynote on Monday as proof that
his company had become more relevant in the high technology industry.


To McBride's surprise however,
endless ammounts of monopoly money started raining down on him.

FINED! for what? (1)

HogGeek (456673) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849921)

Are they being fined because what they (SCO) are saysing isn't true, or because they won't show thier "evidence"?

If it is because what they are saying isn't true, based on what "proof"?

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe them either, but it isn't that simple in the courts.

Re:FINED! for what? (5, Informative)

peterprior (319967) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849947)

They are being fined for continuing to make claims, when the german courts said they must not until the case goes to course.

The are in violation of the injuction made against them spreading FUD while the case runs, which was brought about by linuxtag.

Re:FINED! for what? (5, Informative)

Anita Coney (648748) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849974)

It's a little more complicated than what was stated. A Linux group sued SCO in a German court for an injunction to stop SCO from making its claims without proof. The Linux group probably wanted to see the alleged proof and thought that SCO would turn over it over once it was sued.

The fact that SCO has still refused to show its proof is pretty good evidence to me that they don't have any.

Re:FINED! for what? (0)

cronostitan (573676) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849979)

They were fined because of saying the code is stolen even a court order was issed before that they may not do so.
If they hurt this order again they will be fined for even bigger amounts.

This court order is valid until the case will be decided finally in a court.

So its just a preludium.

Re:FINED! for what? (4, Informative)

IWannaBeAnAC (653701) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850027)

The injunction in Germany was about SCO making claims about linux but refusing to show any evidence to back those claims up.

Basically, they have been told to "put up or shut up", and they did neither, hence the fine.

It does not mean that a court has found SCO is not telling the truth, it just means that if SCO want to continue making big statement, they need to accompanying evidence.

Yeah stick it to them. (3, Interesting)

mrsev (664367) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849922)

The question now is can SCO germany be fined for the slander by SCO in the US. After all they are making these comments about an international operating system and comments in the states do effect lionux in the EU.

Come to think of it could every distro with a presence in Germany sue too.

Wonderful (1)

tommten (212387) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849933)

I wonder though where this fine will go?
would be nice if a larger amount found it's way to the open source community :)

Hopefully this will result in companys thinking before buying licences from SCO's FUD-factory..

greedy yanks (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6849935)

The USA is run by greedy, scoupless people who are prepared to put profit above morals, that is why SCO faces little opposition fom the gov. Lucky for everyone we have europe to make a stand.

Re:greedy yanks (4, Insightful)

peterprior (319967) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850002)

This is becoming more and more clear..

Europe are prepared to take a stand, and the US just sit back and let people / corporations make all the claims and have all the power they want.

This seems to be evident in the Microsoft Antitrust stuff, the Software Patents Issue and now the SCO case.

Glad I live in europe.

Scoupless? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6850065)

Most people are scoupled, but these people are scoupless? Oh the huganimarity! I have great timrishinoon against the falagooaly that this case obhvioutely can musthard in case!

It must stop!

Various national courts (4, Insightful)

TWX (665546) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849938)

For whatever reason, it looks like Courts of Law in other countries seem to operate with more sanity than American courts do. I've wondered if this is in response to a feeling of a lack of due process when the U.S. was founded, or if we just have gotten to where anyone feels that they're entitled to sue "just because".

Of course, SCO/Caldera being an American company trying to enforce claims in a foreign country that doesn't (yet) have software patents might be partially why.

Will they stop? (4, Interesting)

GGardner (97375) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849940)

This German court has ordered the German division of SCO to stop making these claims. But what if the North American parent company continues making the claims? Is SCO Germany still liable?

Re:Will they stop? (1)

christoph_s (537721) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849978)

no, they are fined because they kept claiming their fud on sco.DE .

Re:Will they stop? (3, Informative)

hendridm (302246) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850099)

> This German court has ordered the German division of SCO to stop making these claims. But what if the North American parent company continues making the claims? Is SCO Germany still liable?

Seems like you answered your own question to me.

seemingly low amount (1)

radoni (267396) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849980)

10k USD is loose change in the states, though i've the understanding it's valued quite a bit more in the hands of a Germand operation. Additionally, this sets the tone for another official confrontation (well you lost to SCO Germany, so it looks like all that publicity really *sarcasm* validates your claims, hosers. pay up).

good news for me, "yay!"

=o]

More Links (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6849987)

English:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=1132 1

German:
http://www.pro-linux.de/news/2003/5909. html

This is not about material issues. (5, Informative)

wfberg (24378) | more than 10 years ago | (#6849991)

Please remember, this is not about the SCO case at all, but about false advertising. SCO was saying "linux users have to pay" even though this is an untested legal theory - it is for these misleading statements they now have to pay. If they later are proven to be right, they still made allegations out to be proven fact, which is a no-no in advertising, as far as Germany is concerned.

Bear in mind the order restraining them from making such claims is only a prelimenary injunction. That means all is still to play for, though the likelihood of a judgement against SCO Deutschland is very high indeed.

Re:This is not about material issues. (2, Insightful)

jonatanw (667696) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850058)

Yeah, people in general only listen to what's told to them. That's why marketing and propaganda of this grade actually works. It's not surprising if this is some business war in the background headed by Microsoft to damage Linux's reputation in the "business" world. Opensource could use several more of similar court dealings and the whole matter would be over. Question is, will the people who beleive SCO's propaganda claims understand that?

Re:This is not about material issues. (4, Informative)

Alomex (148003) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850094)


In Germany they have this weird concept that a seller liying in an advertisement is fraud, as the seller is misrepresenting the product.

In the USA, we are more enlightened than that, and judges have ruled that is quite Ok to lie (even when the company *knows* its lying) in an add as this constitutes free speech.

significance (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6849996)

the eu is ahead of US on restraining the softwar nazis et AL.

the euro is STILL valued higher than the us $.

lookout bullow. that's not wool over yOUR eyes., it's ?pr? ?firm? payper liesense FraUD spew. can't you tell buy the smell what's happening?

consult with/trust in yOUR creator. vote with yOUR wallet. join the planet/population rescue initiative. that's the spirit.

There is a funny game in Germany.. (4, Interesting)

presroi (657709) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850004)

it goes like this (only applicable in Countries with preliminary injunctions against SCO regarding their Linux statements):

1. call the SCO HQ.
2. ask them about ther 'Linux end user license'.
3. The SCO person will answer "we can't tell you about this because a German court does not allow this."
4. pretend to be surprised.
5. hang up.

6. call again.
7. tell them that you actually read the preliminary injunction and it does not tell anything about the SCO-Linux-License.
8. ask again to send information about this SCO-Linux-License to you
9. listen to their suffering. ...

and so on.

I did it 4 times and the last time, they forwarded me to the CEO of SCO Germany. It's funny indeed.

My dictionary says that "schadenfreude" is also an english word.

Re:There is a funny game in Germany.. (1)

pair-a-noyd (594371) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850043)

"schadenfreude" is a *GOOD* word. It's also my middle name. Danke for the new idea..

German FUD-suppression system superior to USA's? (-1, Troll)

Sabu mark (205793) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850006)

Here in the States, this simple, common sense ruling is still dozens of months and millions of dollars away.

Notice, also, that Germany has wisely put the smack down on the cult of Scientology for a decade now, while the American authorities are still under the delusion that it's harmless and legitimate.

But on the other hand, Germany embraces its own collection of stupid ideas, like the cradle-to-grave welfare state and the belief that Saddam wasn't worth getting rid of.

So it appears that the German FUD-suppression system is most effective when it comes to lunatic litigation, and not so effective when it comes to touchy-feely politics.

There's a term paper in here somewhere....

Re:German FUD-suppression system superior to USA's (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6850066)

But on the other hand, Germany embraces its own collection of stupid ideas, like the cradle-to-grave welfare state and the belief that Saddam wasn't worth getting rid of.

No, the matter was about HOW to get rid off.

According to (4, Informative)

stephenbooth (172227) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850010)

The Inquirer [theinquirer.net] :

SCO fined 10,000 or CEO goes to gaol

Injunction breached, site claims

By INQUIRER staff: Tuesday 02 September 2003, 10:51 A REPORT ON a German web site said that SCO faces a fine of 10,000 or alternatively its CEO can spend 10 days in clink for violating an injunction.

According to Pro-Linux.de, the site kept on claiming that Linux breaches SCO intellectual property and copyrights, even though it was ordered by a German judge earlier this year to stop doing that.

The site claims that SCO has to divvy up the Euros with delay.

Stephen

GAOL !!!! (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6850095)

Oh wait. This isn't the Spanish soccer station.

There is some justice in this world, (5, Interesting)

pair-a-noyd (594371) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850022)

What's it going to take to get a similar ruling here in the US??

Making these insane claims like they do is damaging Linux and the reputation of a lot of good people.

SCO needs to put up or shut up.

I hope to see a slew of counter suits filed against SCO and I hope a judge will order SCO to STFU until this is resolved. Anyone that loses money over this should personally sue SCO..

Precis (5, Informative)

Tiassa (632878) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850023)

To make a short article shorter (and enlighten the German-impaired):

SCO Germany got fined 10,000 EUR because they transgressed against an injunction ordering them to remove from their web page any allegation that Linux contained ill-gotten IP of SCO's. Apparently they overlooked something when cleaning up their pages.
However, there was no judgment on whether or not these allegations are correct, so put the champagne back in the fridge, guys.

Just https (5, Informative)

Schoellix (703576) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850029)

It has to be added that the sum that the court had deciced to charge against violation of the court decision was set to 250.000 Euros. The reason that it is only 10.000 Euros is that SCO "forgot" to remove all statements from their HTTPS server as well, thus not complying to the court decision. As this was only seen as a minor offense against the court decision, the sum was reduced.

the big question nobody asks (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#6850051)

To whom will those 10,000 euros be given?

Artaxerxes

Small Price (0)

cyanobyte (643838) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850082)

It's a small price to pay to procect your patents, assuming the case is true.

Will the FUD stop now? (0)

geek2003 (699792) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850088)

That's great for a start. Atleast somebody is concerned now. But does this mean that the FUD will stop now atleast for a few days? Maybe not. I wouldn't be surprised if Darl comes out with something new tommorow once he sees that the stocks are below $12 again. I hope the SEC will do something to shut them up as well. BTW, watch out for more internal trading as well soon. What stops the FBI from raiding them? Or is MS pulling some strings to stop that from happenning? Just a wild guess anyway.

Cool (-1, Redundant)

netherpunk (609954) | more than 10 years ago | (#6850091)

They should do that in the US.
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